Eat Love Do – Meera Bhogal, Menopause & The Power Of Hormones On Our Bodies

Hello and welcome. This is the Eat Love Do Show, exclusive to Women's Radio Station. I am Janine Newbury, and I've got a fantastic guest for you today. Obviously, always do, and this one's no exception. She's lovely. Um, before we get started, remember to head over to our socials— Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. We are @WomensRadioStn, and our YouTube channel. And remember to hit that like and subscribe button because it really helps us, and we love it when you support the show. Thank you very much. And obviously head over to eatlovedo.com, which is my, my site where there's lots of interesting articles. And I think Mira is going to put one on as well, actually, today's guest. So, so without further ado, let's bring her on. Today I'm trying to migra— migra, not migra at all. Mira Vogel. Combining my— you were combining the first and last name together. Yeah, I was like trying to blend them like Brangelina instead of Brad and Angelina. Mira Bogle, she is a menopause expert, a gym instructor, and she founded the Don't Pause for Menopause program and the online platform The Training Club. So she's quite an accomplished lady. I'm very excited to chat to you today. Welcome, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me on. I can't wait to, to chat and, you know, chat all things menopause, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah, do you know what, it's like a really big topic at the minute, I think, the menopause. And I think it's, and quite rightly so as well, because I think for years a lot of people didn't really talk about it or understand the menopause or even perimenopause, and women were suffering in silence. I'm also in perimenopause, I'm in that era, I'm in my late 40s, I'm in perimenopause and I'm going through that as well. And thankfully there's stuff out there and there's people like you out there teaching people and helping them through it because it's a bit of a minefield really. And Doctors and people like that still don't seem to be up to date with it to help women. And there's a lot of women suffering and maybe not even realizing that they've got menopause symptoms and all knowing that that's what it is. So I can't wait to hear what you got to say. Do you want to share a little bit on your story and how you got started with this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, everything you said, absolutely everything you said and more. And, and literally that's really where my, my journey and my story starts is because I was one of those women. That at the age of 40— I'm 50, 54 now, nearly 55, and I've been postmenopausal for about 5 years, 4 or 5 years now. But when it first all started for me, which was actually in my late 30s, early 40s, so that's really early on. So people say, oh, you know, you know, obviously even now people go, you couldn't have been that young, you couldn't have been going through perimenopause. But actually looking back now with all the knowledge I have, I realized that's exactly what was happening to me. So there were so many changes happening to me, and I, I really didn't understand what was going on. I thought I had Alzheimer's, I thought I had dementia, I thought I had— I was— I had some kind of cancer. I, I literally just thought, you know, things were going so wrong. The brain fog and all sorts of stuff. And this lasted for about 10 years. What were your symptoms? Before you go on, just so you can share them, so if anyone's listening, they might— yeah, yeah, that's what I've got. Oh God, Janine, if I— I mean, I feel like— I felt honestly, it literally is a— I felt like that, you know, like a I just felt like, am I making this all up? Because if you go through the list of symptoms and I think there are about 40 and there is something called a symptom checker as well, which you can use, I'm happy to explain that in a second. But I didn't know any of this, by the way. My perimenopause phase was for 10 years, about 10 years. And during that time, my symptoms changed a little bit and moved up and down a little bit. Okay. Which is very common as well. So the one symptom that I had, which was all the way through those 10 years, was hot flashes and night sweats, and they were really bad to the point where I was changing sheets, you know, in the night, changing clothes, having a shower. I mean, it was awful. And you'd wake up in the morning exhausted. You felt like you'd run a marathon. So that was one that stayed all the way through. The other ones that went up and down were things like hair loss, fatigue. So really tired. But obviously there's a vicious cycle there because I couldn't sleep because of the night sweats. But also just like aching joints, dry skin, dry eyes, gosh, itchy, itchy skin as well, headaches. And then a really big one came on, which was brain fog. Um, and that kind of stopped me in my tracks. It was really difficult because I run a nursery. I have a team of 45, um, who I, who I lead. Um, you know, I own and run a nursery. So I was a business owner and suddenly I couldn't read emails and I couldn't, I couldn't sit in meetings with, like, I'd come to a meeting and I'd be going, okay, what am I doing here? You know, and it all sounds really funny now, but looking back at the time, it was really frightening. I actually thought I was getting some kind of brain disease. The symptoms of brain fog is not being able to finish a sentence. So you know the word, you can see the word, you know what you're trying to say, but it doesn't come out. And quite often my children and my husband, Harry, would finish the sentence for me, and then I'd go crazy because I'd be like, no, no, no, don't say it for me. I know what I'm trying to say. You know, because you almost feel like you're not going crazy, but you feel like you really are losing, you know, the plot. Last symptoms that I had before I was menopausal and postmenopausal were actually really debilitating periods. My periods were— and again, these are symptoms I hear so many women speak to me about, all of these symptoms and more— the periods were so debilitating and so up and down. So I didn't know one minute to the next whether I was going to have a heavy period or none at all. And then when they were heavy, actually, it was at the point where I mean, I couldn't even leave the house. I couldn't leave the loo. I would just have to sort of, you know, it was just so horrible and painful. So that became again something that you just felt like, gosh, this is just— is this just going to go on forever? You know, just this is all— it's just so awful. But, but I am here to tell you that things change. Definitely. So, you know, yes, yes. Perimenopause can seem like a really— and it is a difficult time for many women. But actually, when you come to postmenopause and postmenopause particularly, Even though symptoms don't necessarily go away, they can change. And life just, life looks very different. It looks very different. It doesn't look so difficult anymore. And that low mood, and I know women describe weight gain and, you know, anxiety, palpitations, all those kinds of things as well. And that can be, you know, and also doing things that you've always done. So for me, getting on a train or going out to meet friends suddenly became a really big 'Okay, I'm not quite sure how to get on the train. I can't figure out and work out the steps,' and really simple everyday things. I never thought in a million years, Janine, that I would be called a menopause expert. Like, I mean, I didn't even know what menopause was. So it's really only about 5 or 6 years ago that I really started to kind of embrace what was going on with me, understand what was going on with me, and then have the confidence to actually share my journey so that I could help women to understand that it is a stage of life that everyone's going to go through. Every woman's going to go through it. No wonder it feels like you have an Alzheimer's, just from what you're saying, like forgetting words, forgetting how to do simple tasks that you've done your whole life. You know, when you think Alzheimer's or dementia's on— yeah, yeah. But it is a massive thing, and I hope that this is, um, if anyone's listening to this and going through any of these or got any of these symptoms, I hope you're finding a little bit of comfort in the fact that you're not going crazy. You probably don't have brain damage. It's probably just menopause. Yeah, I don't think that hormones could have such an impact. No, on your body and your mind, everything, your body, your energy, in every way. It's huge. It's absolutely huge. Yeah. And you see, the thing is though, no one tells us, no one told me, no one tells us that estrogen is what they call a master hormone. So it's one of the most important hormones in our whole in our body. It's the thing that keeps us all kind of happy and, and, you know, feeling good. And everything works really well because our estrogen is in the right place and we've got the right amount. Um, and obviously then progesterone and testosterone come in as well. And then we've got cortisol, which is our stress hormone, but that has a massive impact. So no one tells us about estrogen. No one tells us that estrogen is required for brain health, or estrogen is required for, um, you know, our heart beating the right way, our blood vessels being okay, our bones, you know, getting— not getting osteoporosis and keeping, you know, everything going, even our absorption of food and whether we produce serotonin. All of that's connected to estrogen, you know, keeping our skin nice and plump. That's all to do with estrogen and also collagen and things like that. No one tells us that. So as soon as that starts to go and we produce a different type of estrogen, and then also the progesterone and testosterone changes a little bit, you're then— no wonder you start feeling all of those symptoms, because suddenly it's like trying to put diesel in a petrol car or having no petrol at all. And if someone takes the plug out and you're completely like, okay, whoa, how do I— how, how do I now carry on without this hormone? Or, you know, how do I manage now that my body and my mind is different? They're doing so much more research now, which is good. Not enough, but still doing some. They are seeing that Actually, these hormones, this interplay between all these hormones, in particular estrogen, actually can have an impact on the increased risk of heart disease, increased obesity, increased osteoporosis, increased brain health, dementia, Alzheimer's. It's a stage of our lives that we need to look at, take it seriously, you know, just as you would for those women who choose to have a baby and think about their pregnancy. You know, we all kind of get all prepped up and we think about what we're going to do and looking after the baby that we're carrying. We need to think about ourselves and our health all the way through, not just for one little phase of our life. So it's, it is an important stage of our lives because we could be in this stage for about a third of our lives. Oh yeah, I'm 40. I was 40, let's say, when I started the perimenopause symptoms. We're all living much longer, I think, you know, which is lovely. But I, if even if I live till 80, I will have been in a menopausal stage for 40 years of my life. So you've got to take it seriously. You've got to learn, you've got to learn to live with it. We've got to learn to understand it and not just go, it's never going to happen to me. So what are the solutions that you've found that have worked for you that maybe other people can like try and take on board for themselves? And the first thing to do is to keep a symptom checker, and you can get this on lots of websites like Louise Newson's website and even on my website, you'll find a symptom checker. So keep it, keep that. Make sure you're ticking those off every day that you're feeling them so that actually when you go to your GP or you go to a menopause specialist, you can say, look, this is how I'm feeling. Because otherwise the doctors won't necessarily put everything together. Okay. Because GPs, we've all heard about this. You know, they're not, you know, there's very little training on menopause. It is changing now. So I was part of the APPG, the Cross-Parliamentary Inquiry into Menopause. And actually one of the outcomes of that is that all medical practitioners will get some training, um, in, um, in menopause, especially as they're going through now the system. But they can also do some kind of continued professional development. So, you know, not all GPs will know what you're talking about when you go in. So it's really important for us as women to keep a list of our symptoms and actually help the GP to help us, right? So, you know, what, what can we— so that's really, really important to do. But what can we do about it? Well, there's a lot of talk at the moment about HRT So hormone replacement therapy. And, you know, again, when I was going through it, I didn't— I had that option, but the type of hormone replacement therapy that was there wasn't very well explored. There wasn't any good amount of research on it, and it was made from horse urine at the time. Right. And there was this— delightful. And that from a mare as well. From a mare. Not to say it was like— I'm not— I'm not having— I mean, anyway, No, exactly, exactly. So I just was like, no. And, and at that time there was false research, which we now know this false research, which actually started to say that there was a link between increased risk of breast cancer and HRT, and that is completely untrue. You've got a higher risk of having breast cancer if you are obese, so you've got a high body fat percentage, than you do if you're on HRT. So HRT is a really good option for women to look at, and it's something that you must I call it a little tool in your toolbox, right? So if you've got a little toolbox of things that you want to pick out, HRT should be something that you consider and that you should go to either a GP or a specialist menopause expert who— a medical practitioner for that, right? Do they tailor that to your body or is it like a one, one, one fits all kind of this is a HRT tablet, it is, and that's it. So interesting you say that. Because I wish they did tailor it because everyone's hormones are going to be different. Exactly. You are different. Spot on. That's exactly— so actually what happens is, um, they could try and do blood tests and they can try and do different tests to figure things out, but actually they're not really that effective. So what you do is you have different— you have— we have different types. There's pumps and gels and sprays and tablets and all sorts of things. Um, and having that consultation with your medical practitioner, you'll figure out what you need, but it may be a bit of trial and error. So you may find that actually, you know, a pump works really well, and actually a teeny tiny squirt is brilliant, that's enough. But other people might find that they need to have 2 pumps because that works for them. So it is a bit of trial and error. You should be having a review with, with your practitioner all the time, and every 6 weeks or 8 weeks for sure, and still keep a track of your symptoms. The thing, though, with all of this is it is brilliant that we've got HRT, but we have got to start taking responsibility for ourselves and looking after ourselves. Super, super important. So one of the things we must look at is our lifestyle choices, what we eat, how we exercise, and how we keep alert and how we kind of— how we are in everyday living. That is that's not going to change whether you take HRT or not, you know. So that's something that we— for me, that's what my Don't Pause for Menopause program is all about. That's why I designed it. And that's kind of why I also did that, the training club, which is an online exercise platform, because lifestyle, food, exercise, and education are so important. Those are the key fundamental things that we need to look at. And sleep. So those are the, those are the things that we need to kind of explore a bit more. 100%. So, um, so what, what do you, um, advise people to do in your menopause program that will help them? Is it, is it eating certain foods certain ways, exercising a certain way to boost the metabolic rate, or, you know, yeah, all of the above? Everything, everything. But I think the first thing to say is a lot of women, when they come to me, quite often are they don't feel like themselves. They're just— they don't recognize themselves. So quite often they're very low in self-esteem, in confidence, very low mood. They're usually frightened about who it is they're turning into, and they've lost who they were. So quite often they're not eating very well and they're not eating enough because they think they're gaining weight. So they think, well, oh, the older me would have sort of stopped eating a bit, done a bit of exercise, and it would have all gone. But actually it's not shifting. So understanding that estrogen oxygen is responsible for, for how your body processes fat and stores fat, as well as cortisol, suddenly makes you understand that, okay, hang on, it's not, it's not what I'm doing. It's what's happening inside of me that's changed. So what do I do? Actually, what we need to do is give our body the right food. So we look at making sure that you're getting enough protein in your diet, whether you're vegetarian, vegan, meat eater, it doesn't matter. Making sure you're getting the right amount of protein, making sure you're getting the right amount of fats as well. Good fats are really important. So things like olive oil, super important. So if we look, if we think about a Mediterranean diet, and every time I say that everyone goes, yay, pizzas! And I'm like, no, not pizzas. I know, pizzas, no! Um, but we're thinking here, you know, whole foods, fish, um, whole meats, you know, chicken, and, and even things like legumes. So chickpeas and beans, lentils, lots of vegetables, lots of kind of fresh herbs, spices as well, um, combining all of that on a plate. So you've got a really colorful plate of food along with lots of green vegetables. And, and, you know, so you're getting your carbohydrates in there as well. You're getting your protein, your fat, the fiber. And then we start to look at little things like micronutrients. So things that are really important for women going through menopause, things like collagen, Zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, magnesium, calcium as well, uh, really important for, for your bone health too. So we start to look at foods that will bring those micronutrients in. So we don't always look at supplements. I always say to women, men, women, everyone, don't take a supplement because someone else is taking a supplement. Go back to why do you feel you need to take supplement, number one. Number two, go and get a blood test done to see whether you actually do need a supplement for that. And then number 3, before you start taking the supplement, see if you can get it through food. Because if you're, you know, if your levels aren't too low in a particular thing, you don't need to start bringing and spending money on stuff that you don't need to. So bring it in through food. And then if you need it, definitely get it in. So something like vitamin D, I mean, you know, look at it, we haven't had a summer yet. Um, it's really hard to get enough vitamin D. And again, on skin tone, skin color, ethnicity, that also depends. So vitamin D is something that you would supplement. Supplement. Okay. Um, but something like zinc you can get from pumpkin seeds. So, you know, sprinkling the pumpkin seeds, something like selenium, which is really important, you can get from a Brazil nut, just having a Brazil nut every day. So, you know, there are certain things that foods that can really help. So that's food. We look at food, eating enough, eating the right food. So those are little tips. So even if you're thinking about, right, well, I can't change all of that. I always say to people, just put one thing in out of everything that I've said. If you're making a note, you're listening and making a note, think about, can I add pumpkin seeds in? You know, can I drink one more glass of water? Can I have one less coffee today? Because coffee and spices can really increase your hot flushes as well. So it's, it's really important to have a link between— and alcohol. So alcohol, coffee, too much sugar, and spicy food can all really increase your hot flushes and how your body controls temperature as well. I've definitely noticed that on the odd day that I have a glass of wine, I def— the night sweats definitely get worse. That is about 2 days actually, body's foxing it out. Exactly. And it takes longer for things to, to process, you know, because your body's just not tolerant anymore. So you know how, how you say, well, as women get older they're just not tolerant, but it's actually your body not, not being tolerant either. It just is like, well, if you're going to eat that or drink that, you suffer. I'm not going to process it for you. Yeah, all the fun stuff. Yeah, all the fun stuff. Believe me. Oh God, I've been through it. I went through the whole thing. Honestly, Janine, I worked for years. I said, I'm not giving up alcohol. This is just not fair. You know, how much more? And now I'm like, okay, hold on, let's just take this easy because I can't, I can't spend 2 weeks recovering from like 3 drinks. There's just no point. So, uh, you do have to listen to your body in the end. And, and so just take it, yeah, listen to your body, do what your body needs you to do. I think that's important. Are you super strict now with your diet and everything that you eat and consume? I, I eat things consistently that make me feel better. So that's the way I would say it. So I don't talk about restriction. So in our program and generally in life, I never say don't eat this and don't eat that. What I do say is eat it or don't eat it, but see how your body feels. So I try and eat foods that make my body feel better all the time and give me lots of energy. I try and minimize the foods that kind of make me feel a little bit lethargic and have an impact on how my brain functions and all the rest of it. But you know what goes hand in hand with that, Janine, is things like exercise. Super important. Super, super, super important. But the thing that I find that women that again come to me are kind of being misled by information out there and stuff is that there's this confusion. There's a lot of noise about I should be doing this and I should be doing that and I shouldn't be doing this and I shouldn't. And again, I always say to women, the most important thing is to be active, right? Do something you enjoy doing. Really important, whether that's dancing or swimming or walking, whatever it may be, do something and be active all the time. But there's a lot of research that is out there that actually shows that doing some kind of resistance training, and by that, I don't even mean, you don't need to have dumbbells, you don't need to be in a gym. We are never gonna, as women, look like Arnold Schwarzenegger if you pick up a weight. Believe me, the amount of weight I lift, And I have been through that whole thing. You can't, you know, our physiology is completely different. We would have to train exceptionally hard with a specific type of diet to be able to gain those kind of muscle definition that, that, you know, bodybuilders have. So when we're talking about resistance training, it can be things like resistance bands. It can be things like bottles of water, but just creating a little bit of resistance for your for your muscles and your bones to work against can actually help reduce the risk of osteoporosis by nearly 1% each year. Right. So if we're doing it for health and it's huge because osteoporosis is one of the biggest, biggest diseases in women, it's really— it's something that— and it doesn't sound like it's a big thing, but if your bones aren't strong and your nutrients are being taken out of those bones and your bones are getting spongy, If we break a bone as we get older, that bone doesn't heal very well. So no, you know, it's, it's super important to think about the type of exercise we're doing, keeping active, keeping our cardiovascular system, you know, awake and alive and getting that blood pumping around. And the other thing with exercise though is that we're not producing much serotonin anymore. We're not producing those feel-good hormones, chemicals anymore. So we're, you know, we're prone to feeling quite low because of estrogen being changing. So actually, if you exercise, we create— we produce dopamine, we produce feel-good chemicals. So that's a way of combating that low mood and depression and anxiety, is to actually move and exercise. So you're kind of doing, you know, you're killing two birds with one stone. Um, so exercise is super, super important. Exercise or chocolate? Exercise or chocolate? Oh, At the same time, at the same time is fine. I'm happy with that. I could never compromise one for the other, you know. If you want to eat the chocolate, eat chocolate, but exercise as well. It's all about, you know, being able to do everything you want to do in life and being happy with it as well. Is there things we can do to boost our estrogen naturally? Yeah, so interesting. That's, that's a really interesting one. So One of the things that we can do, not necessarily to boost our estrogen, but to maybe help our body to produce, to keep producing the estrogen it's already producing. So what happens is we don't— there are 3 different types of estrogen. It's going to get a bit technical, but there are 3 different types of estrogen. Okay, one is only needed when we're pregnant, so we forget that one. We've got another 2. There's one main one, and again, I'm not going to go into names, names, but let's just— there's one main one. So we produce that all the time, we're all lovely, hunky-dory, everything's going along fabulous. And then you hit perimenopause, menopause, post-menopause. So that main type of estrogen stops being produced and we don't have enough of it. But the other type of estrogen comes in and it's just not as good, it's not as good quality. So, you know, it's, it's just a slightly cheaper quality, shall we say. I don't know, it's the best way of saying it. So our body isn't going to be able to function as well as it did. So it's not that completely stop producing estrogen, we're just not producing enough of the right amount. So there are certain things we can do. So the foods, going back to foods, there are certain plant-based estrogens called phytoestrogens that we— so we can actually eat foods that will encourage that estrogen production and, and keep estrogen in the body. It's, it's not as easy as, right, I'm going to eat loads of soya and therefore I've got loads of estrogen. Because our body has to transform that plant estrogen into something that we can use. It takes a bit of energy and time and all the rest of it. But things like soya, things like soya, soybeans, tofu, things like your green cruciferous vegetables, so things like kale and broccoli, those are all great phytoestrogens as well. So those are some examples that you can, that you can include. The other way, one of the most important things you can do to help your body to keep producing estrogen is to, to do something to reduce your stress levels, whether that's meditation, mindfulness, yoga, whatever it is. Because our body is so clever, it's so clever. Cortisol is actually only needed— it's a very important hormone, we need it, it's really, it's it's good, we need it within our system. But what happens is, as we become continuously chronically stressed the whole time— so think about, we're always running to the next meeting, we've always got something to do, or we've got the kids' lunches to sort out, we've got parents to look after, or whatever it is, we're always running from one thing to the next, or we've got deadline at work— um, that cortisol, rather than just being produced, let's say, when you've got to run for a bus, you're actually producing it all the time.. And in order for our body to produce estrogen, to produce cortisol, a lot of other chemical reactions in our body stop happening. One of those chemical reactions is our— in our brain, there's a little chemical reaction that goes along that produces estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. But when we need cortisol, that stops and everything goes down. Let's produce cortisol quickly. And so you stop producing the estrogen that you even the, even the little amount that you have. Hence why a lot of women you'll find will say, gosh, yoga was one of the best things that I found when I went through perimenopause. Mindfulness, meditation really helped me. It's because your body is not going through that stress and it's being able to calm down. And that estrogen, you can then start to help your body to produce the estrogen as well that it needs. So clever. Yeah, it's clever. It makes perfect sense as well when you explain it like that. It's just like, okay, you just— yeah, you switch off the cortisol and then it— yeah, it allows the others to be produced. Yeah. And it's good to hear that because I didn't know that it would switch off the estrogen and the other hormones when— I know that cortisol can obviously flood your body and overtake it, but I didn't know when, when it's doing that, it stops the other ones being produced. That's massive. Yeah. If you've been in a stressed state for a few years That means for a few years you've had it switched off. That's how, right? Yeah. And it will, it will come and go. Yeah. You know, it will get, it will come and go in between. But, you know, a lot of women will notice, and I will notice that for me, yoga literally, as I said, just literally saved my life. I mean, honestly, I think I would have been, you know, I was a runner, so I, I was running half marathons. I used to do spin. It was any complete cardio junkie, complete cardio junkie. Did not go near the weight section of a gym because it's full of people that I just, I don't even know. I, it just scares me. Even to this day, it scares me, even though I know what I'm doing and I'm a gym instructor. Like, you can't be scared of that. Um, I literally, I go in and go completely brain dead. Like, are you crazy? You're training people and you still go— but, um, and I had to, I just found I couldn't do it anymore. I was getting more injured and things were happening to me, so I was just, I started to take up yoga thinking, oh, I don't want to take up yoga. This is like, what am I doing? Um, and I found a style of yoga called Ashtanga yoga, which is quite dynamic. I thought, great, this is good. I could sweat it out and do my jumps and do my handstands and whatever. And actually what ended up happening, I'm still practicing yoga today, but it used to— but what it did was actually got me out of that whole mindset of thinking about what's happening next, thinking about what I'm doing. I had to focus. On me and on my breath for those hour and a half or 2 hours or whatever it was I was doing. And that really helped to calm me down, calm my body down. And then it was only after that really that I started taking up strength training. So I've really only been doing strength training for about 6, 5, 5 years or so, not much more than that, because before that I was just like, no, I don't want to become big and muscly. And, you know, and I now look back at that and I think, wow, my God, how wrong I was, you know. A lot of women think that, don't they? They think if they start doing weights they're going to get really muscly, but our bodies don't work that way. So I think we need, we need that resistance, like you were saying before, because it helps you, your bones, everything. So, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you don't— the other thing as well, the other reason I created the training club as well was because women like myself were saying to me, I don't have hours to spend in the gym. And you know, you, you don't need hours, you 30 minutes of exercise every day and then doing your walking and keeping active, all you need. You don't need more than that. I think what a lot of women don't realize as well is those high cardio sessions that you were talking about a minute ago, they actually can cause more stress on the body. So they can raise your cortisol levels. Yes, because it's stressful to the body. So if you're already in a stressed state and you're putting more stress on the body, it's much better to do a low-intensity workout or a yoga and actually So you're taking care of your body, but in more of a calm way, maybe adding some breath to it or breathwork or something. Yeah. It calms your nervous system down and you get to look after your body as well and balances it out. So yes, absolutely. I'm completely on the same page. So what kind of training do you do now when you're training your clients? Do you do the sort of— would you take them through like a 50-minute like HIIT sort of workout, or would— like, what do you do? What's the sort of recommendation that you do with the women? Yeah, so I mean, if I'm seeing somebody once a week, um, it will be a little bit of a whole full body workout. So we'll do a little bit of a cardio, like a circuit style session. We'll do a bit of strength training within that, um, but we'll always get, you know— and I do a lot of boxing as well. They— everyone seems to love boxing because you can punch that bag out as much as you like. Talk about it. Oh, okay. Um, just imagine it being somebody that— I say that all the time. I tell you the number of times they'll put the gloves down at the end of session, go, yes, that felt so good. So, you know, again, that's— it's just, it's making it fun, um, but also understanding what they're doing. So even for myself, it's the same thing. Um, you know, it's not that I don't do HIIT sessions, I do, but I maybe do a low-impact HIIT session. Um, you know, so yeah, of course it's, it's fun to be— you need to get your heart rate, right? You need to get your heart rate to rise into a slightly uncomfortable place. Um, and that should be happening regularly through your sessions, but you also need to be able to build that resistance training in. So yeah, we do things like squats and people say to me, well, I don't do squats. Squats, what do we need to do those for? And I say to them, right, sit down and stand up. They're like, what? I said, sit down, sit on the toilet seat, sit on the chair, sit on a sofa and stand up. Yeah. So, well, if you do that, that's a squat, right? If you're going to get your shopping out your bag and, you know, your food shopping out your bag and put it into a— pop it into a— onto a shelf, you're actually doing a press. Oh, right. It's practical things. But we also— the other thing we work on as well as balance, because that can be something that goes quite quickly as well. Um, so we do a lot of kind of functional movements, but we do a lot of balance work, a lot of stretching as well. So you, you make sure you're looking after your whole body in a really holistic way. Yeah, I found stretching's huge as well, like, because I, I've noticed that after training, as I've got older, my, my body and my fascia and everything definitely gets tighter, so I have to do more stretching. I did Yin yoga years back, and that was just incredible. It just, it just resets your body. So all the stiffness and soreness, it just kind of, it's like a sort of a self, a self-mass, a way of self-massage really, because you're stretching all the muscles back, you know, so you can actually move again and you're not all kind of wound up. And it's just phenomenal. Yes, you're so right. That and things like foam rolling as well. So we do a lot of foam rolling, which is again fantastic if you're looking, talking about fascia. You know, you do want to, you want to ease out those knots and make sure everything's kind of moving and it's not all gritty again. And foam rolling is fantastic. And as you said, yin yoga, absolutely can't recommend it enough. Um, it is just, again, like I said, it's about that breathwork, but it's about getting— it's about resetting and restoring your body to where it is so that you can move it again, you know. Definitely. And I found that adding, um, Epsom salt baths or magnesium salt baths That helps massively as well. And I think also because it adds the magnesium into your diet that women are particularly deficient in, especially as we get older. Yeah, that really helps with the aching and the muscles. Yes. I had one last night, best night's sleep ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, you know, somebody— there was a nutritionist I worked with on our program, she said to me, she said, well, just think of your feet like tree roots, put them into a bath Epsom salts, warm. Just if you're sitting at the desk and you're typing away, whatever, you're too busy to do whatever, just pop a little bucket underneath, put your feet in there with the Epsom salts in there, warm water. And she said, just sit like that. And she said, your feet are like roots of a tree. They'll just absorb the magnesium into your body. And so I love that analogy. So I'm grounded. I've got my feet in some Epsom salt bath and I'm in, you know, A, I'm enjoying that experience. B, I'm actually also getting the magnesium in. So you're absolutely right, it's a great way of easing your muscles. Um, and we do need magnesium, definitely, especially if you get achy legs and achy joints or cramps as well. Yeah, I think that's great. I love the idea of putting the feet in the, in like a foot bath. You don't always have time to have a bath, and you know, in a hot bath, like, you have to like wash all your hair, do the whole thing. Oh gosh, just pop your feet in. Yeah, make it as easy as possible. That's the thing. So, and especially with the world, with, you know, well, we kind of, well, we're living in now where everything's Zoom and meetings are Zoom and we're still all working from home, you can just get a small thing of water, stick it on your table, and just put, you know, you don't— that's what the thing I like is, not to make a kind of big thing out of everything. If we keep everything small and simple, those small and simple changes are doable. If we make everything big, then it just becomes too overwhelming to try and change. So small changes, small tweaks every week, that's the way to go rather than trying to think of one big change in one go. So how often would you recommend somebody do the magnesium foot bath thing? Would you recommend they do it daily or a couple of times a week? Yeah, I mean, do you know what, it— I think it really just depends on you as a person as well and what you're feeling. So, you know, if you are getting aching joints and you are getting a lot of muscle cramps or you're finding it really difficult to sleep at night, um, yeah, I would do it very regularly, 3, 4 times a week. I don't think there's any harm in that at all. I mean, you take a magnesium supplement every day, wouldn't you? So it's not a problem. But, you know, again, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. If it works, it helps you, definitely have, you know, do it as often as you need to. I don't think there's an upper limit on how much you should do it. Yeah, I'll be adding that to my routine. I've tried that magnesium spray and then— Oh yeah, how did that work? I found it really itchy. Oh my God. Oh gosh. Yeah, it didn't work for me, but some people love it and it's great. Yeah, I prefer the salt, the baths, or to take magnesium. But that's it. Well, this is great. I just sprayed it on myself and my whole body was just itching. I was like, nope, not for me. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm a bit reluctant. I'd have to say I'm a little bit— not nervous, I, I'm a bit— I just don't trust. So I, I, I've lost trust with so many things. I just think I'm just not sure how much out there is so gimmicky. You know, you put menopause in front of anything and it suddenly becomes, you know, that's for you. And I always say to people, remember when, when, when, when you get a multivitamin or a, yeah, particularly multivitamins, you know, when they say take 2 or take this or take that or how much of each, each vitamin or mineral is in there, you, you've got to remember that there's going to be somebody who's 6 foot 2 and there's going to be somebody who's 4 foot 1 or whatever taking the same amount. So how does that equate? And how do you know how much you need? So again, it's just, you know, be careful about things that say this is specifically for menopause or this is specific. It's sometimes usually a gimmick just to sell you something. I'm even like that about water because everyone kind of thinks, oh, you should drink 8 glasses of water or 2 liters of water water every day. Yes, yes. People, different body sizes. Exactly, exactly. Something personal, and a 6-foot-5 person needs a different amount of water. Yeah, add exercise to it, and that's like a different thing as well. Exactly, exactly. So like someone like, you know, for me, for example, having those night sweats through that, through the night, and not only did I have to have water, I also had to have some, um, electrolytes as well, so salt salts and sugars because I was sweating out so much. So again, I would need more of that and more water through the day than, um, you know, than just, just like you said, the amount that somebody else might have. So true, it's exactly right. It's a sensible approach really, but I think sometimes when people tell you things, so social media has a lot to do with it, you know, and, um, you just, you just think, oh, they must be right because they look a certain way or they, they sound like they know what they're about. But, you know, I think there's a lot to be said for that as well. I said, somebody stands on a platform, if it's social media or a stage, and they speak with authority, people just believe them, don't they? Yes. Do your research and check them out. Exactly. Yeah, you must, you must do your research. Super important. Yeah, yeah. So, um, what is your kind of top, top tips to get, you know, for somebody to get started now on this journey? So you've given some really good sort of advice, but if you were to say, what are the 3 kind of main things that somebody could have started applying today to start seeing some difference? What would you say? So I think the first thing, first thing, first thing, first thing is to look at your plate of food, get in some greens. Yeah. Get in some protein. So have an understanding of what that protein is, whether it's meat or fish or it's, it's tofu or it's lentils. Get that in, get in some olive oil into your food and some nuts and seeds. So that's, that's kind of the first thing. Look at your plate of food. Super, super important. Really important. The next thing I would say is get moving. So get outside if you can, go out for a walk if you can, get, get walk— either walking or, you know, join a— I don't know, join some dance classes or anything that you feel, but just get out there because even the social element of exercising or walking or dancing is going to help you mentally too, as well. So that's important. Um, I would say the, the last one, and I think we've covered all of these really, but the last one is just to try and spend even 1 minute, and you might even be able to combine that with your walk, but just 1 or 2 minutes just without any social media, without any phone, doesn't matter what time of day, but just in on yourself and literally just check in. And it isn't about meditation or mindfulness, it's literally about going through and going, right, toes, ankles, knee, you know, literally just walk up your body and walk back down your body. And that is— that will— that will have taken you away from, oh, the dinner needs to be cooked and someone else needs to do that, and I've got that deadline. So literally just going through, doing a little body check, body scan, body scan back up. Take 30 seconds, it doesn't matter. It doesn't— my meditation doesn't need to be about no thinking, it just needs to be about being present and aware of you right now. So those 100% would be my top tips. Are you doing that just to turn your mind off and connect to your body, literally, to like get back to your body? Absolutely, yeah. And don't, and don't attach emotion to it, you know. So it's almost like So you're going through, but literally going through, going toes, ankle, knees. Yeah. Calf. Okay. Hip, you know, and just literally scan and not kind of, oh, okay, I'm really aching or no, no, I know I'm aching because your brain will go off and take you somewhere else. So literally just kind of go, oh no, no, no, no, let's just go back up. Let's go back up the body and just bringing it back. So you go back up. If you go up once and you go up and down again, that's enough. You don't need to do more. Don't think you have to sit there for hours. And it's good to check that they're all there because I hate it when I leave my arm somewhere. It's a little bit inconvenient, right? Hold on a minute. Nope, whoops, can't drive, need my arm, go get it. Where's it gone? It's all got to be there sometimes, you never know. Oh, we're joking, but it's— that is actually a really powerful thing to do because we spend our day like going around and we forget about our bodies. We just, we, we forget to be connected to our bodies, and we just sort of take them for granted. So we never really take that time to tune into actually into our bodies and appreciate it. Well, you could add that with gratitude as well. You could do a little gratitude, couldn't you? Totally. Scan up and down your body and then just be grateful for every part of your body. Yeah, we use our bodies, don't we? We just use them. We just expect them to— we expect our body just to function and arms, legs, whatever we've got, just to be there and do stuff. And I think sometimes when you stop in and you think, okay, wow. And it's one of the things I do with my, with the ladies in the morning when they do their exercise with me for 30 minutes. I'm just like, you know what, just look at this. You, how grateful can we be for the bodies that are moving the way that they're moving? You know, who thought you would be doing this? Who thought, but you know, 6 months ago you said you came and you said, I, I don't know how to exercise. Exercise. I'm nervous about exercising. And look at you now. So be so grateful for your body that is actually willing to move and enjoys it, um, rather than just kind of constantly beating it up and just like— it's functional, you know. So yeah, definitely, we are lucky. We're blessed. We're blessed. Our bodies are the most miraculous things in the world. Honestly, they are amazing. Wonderful. So this, um, 30-minute training, is that what you're doing in your— the training Is that part of the program? Yes. Yeah. So the training club really came about because, um, a lot of my clients, um, they didn't want to join a gym because they're too nervous about joining the gym. Um, you know, they, they, and it's not the environment for them. They are really comfortable working, you know, whether in their pajamas or wherever, it doesn't matter, at home. Um, they're also usually time poor. Um, so it's this, it's a live and on-demand platform. So we do live classes. We do 11 live classes a week. And, um, there are usually 2 a day and they vary in what we do. So, so that there's something for everybody. So even if we do a HIIT session, it can be a low-impact HIIT session. Um, we do a strength session, a core strength session, we do yoga. So there's something for everyone, but they're 30 minutes of exercise so that you can literally come in and they're done to time. So actually, even if you've got 15 minutes, you can do 15 minutes and whiz off. It doesn't matter it's done. So it literally was based around that. Let's just get everybody moving. It doesn't matter what level you're at, doesn't matter if you've got any weights at home and you don't have anything at home, doesn't matter if you've got a tiny little room to work in. It, it can all work because we're moving. And you just get a sense of community and a sense of, you know what, there's going to be other people on there. And that's the other thing, it's all on Zoom and it's live, so I can see you, you can see me. There's a lot of platforms where I find that either A, they're just all recorded, so So we're live as well as recorded, so you get recorded sessions as well. But the other thing as well is there's only— there'll only ever be 4 or 5 or 6 people on the platform at the same time, and I can see everyone, so I can actually correct you, and you get a lot of one-to-one attention as well. And that's important because again, there are platforms where you've got hundreds of people all joining. There's no way anybody can see 100 people on a screen and help them. So it is very much more about having a space which feels safe and in which people feel understood, heard, valued, and I can see you and you get to know each other and you get to know— I get to know people's bodies and how they move. And, you know, so it's, it's, um, it's, it's a slightly different way of exercising, but one that I feel is really accessible. So even if you've got— so we always say, even if you've got a personal trainer or whatever it is you're doing, I have people who come to me for one-to-one sessions sessions, they add this on, and that again brings, brings their fitness levels and health levels and everything up much more because they're doing something every day or 3 or 4 times a week at least. I think that's a really nice touch, and it's really important that you only have like a small handful and you're able to adjust them and see. And, and because I think especially as you get older, when people are training, if they're just slightly not quite doing it right, it can create an injury. Like, they might be able to do it 1 or 2 times and get away with it, but if they're consistently doing out of alignment over, over like a period of time, that's going to create an imbalance. And as you get older, you get injured more easily because your body gets more tired and doesn't recover as quickly. So I think that's great that you're actually doing that and not just doing the sort of prerecorded— you're doing it from home. And which is— in your 20s, you can probably get away with that. But when you get into your 40s and upwards, there's absolutely no way. You need that kind of more hands-on, just a little tweak to go, oh, just, you know, to like just rotate your hip this way or do that, and that can make the difference. Also gets more from the exercise that they're doing. They get— yes, they get more results quicker as well because they're doing it properly. And sometimes you don't need to train harder, you just need to train properly, you get faster results and it's safer. Yeah, it's great that you're doing that. Yeah, no, it, it definitely is the right way to go, I think, for us. And also, again, you know, there's that accountability. So quite often the ladies who are on the program, I know them, you know, they'll have my number. We know them and we have a little Facebook group. And, you know, I will message and say, I haven't seen you on for a couple of like a week or so. How you doing? What's going on? And if they book, I can see that people have booked. When you go through this perimenopause, menopause, postmenopausal stages, you can get that whole thing of, oh, I don't want to do it, or I'm really tired or whatever, all this. And you lose that motivation, you lose that kind of pattern of getting up and exercising. Actually having that little nudge to say, are you okay? Do you want to just— why don't you book in next week? Let's see which ones you're going to book in for because it'd be nice to see you. And you go, oh, okay, hold on a minute, I'll just book. And that nudges you along. And then you just have that sense of community and you feel part of something rather than it just being something you click on and you can see, you can do the exercise and you're just on your own in your room. And again, like you said, there are certain types of people that will be able to do that. What I've found is when women are going through these stages, this stage of life, having that support and community is really important. I think that's huge. I used to actually run a studio, a personal training studio, until February last year, and I used to specialize in injured people or older people over 40. And it's a different— definitely a different way of training them and taking care of the bodies. And you need— and that community is huge. It became like a family, um, at school. So I think the fact that you created that in your online training is magical because, you know, there's a million people training out there and doing online stuff, but they haven't created that. And I think that is the magic that keeps people going, and that's kind of support network, and also shows that you actually genuinely care about the people that you're training as well, which Yes, huge. If you, yeah, you're creating that accountability, you're actually taking care of them and they're getting the results. That's just, yeah, me, that's like the magic space. It is, isn't it? It's, it's, and I don't, you know, the thing for me, Janine, is that I work, I'm very lucky, I run a nurse, I own a nursery and childcare and education is my number one passion. That for me, I've been doing that for 20 plus years now, um, and I love that. I, I totally love that. Makes, drives me, it just makes me smile when I think about it. I love The other thing that I've realized now through the menopause journey I've been on is that, okay, yeah, definitely, I've obviously got to be a people person, otherwise I wouldn't be doing any of the thing I'm doing. But actually, for me, it's just— even with childcare, even with this, it's not about the money. Yes, I've got to earn enough to have a living, but I'm not— it, you know, I, I see personal trainers, I see people who they'll just turn one person out after the other, one person after the other, and we're all doing the same. I've had, I've had, I've had trainers like that. We're all doing the same exercise and you're not, you know, they're like, right, next one's in, next one's in, and you're— it just didn't do it for me. And for me, and for me personally, I don't want to be going to work and doing the job when all I'm doing is going, right, okay, what time is it? I need to go now because I'm bored. I want to be interested. I want to be able to make sure that that person who's joining me is getting the maximum out of it. I love the human body. It's absolutely fascinating how it changes, how it evolves, and how you have to adapt, as you said, the training for women who are slightly older, for women who've had hysterectomies or who've had some kind of operation, injury, cancer, whatever it may be. You have to is completely have a look at their whole— them in a really holistic way, in a real whole way, and then provide them with what they need. Um, so there are some days when some of my clients will— and I always say to my clients, don't miss your sessions, whatever you do. And they'll come, you know, as in just come, because we will find something to do. Um, and they will— they'll come, and some days they'll come and they're just like, I am not feeling it today, I'm feeling— I am just really— so I'll look at them and I think, okay, what's your energy telling me? Is it telling me that you need to be, right, do you know what, no nonsense, let's go. Or is it do some stretching, get the yin yoga in, get that kind of— get, get you in that space where you're feeling much more energized in this way. So even just doing that, I don't know whether you found that as well. It just— it's— I love that bit. I think sometimes people need that recovery session instead, and that is the session, that is the session that they need. And I think that's a really good thing for anyone listening, that if you are exhausted and you're in that space and you want to train and move your body, it's okay just to do a stretching mobility session and have that kind of like a self-care— I call it recovery session. So you, you're stretching your body out and giving it what it needs, and you're not pushing yourself and burning yourself out and injuring yourself. So I am so happy to hear that this is how you do it, because I think this is how people should be trained. So this is brilliant. Oh, thank you. I love it. It just makes sense to me. That's the only reason I'm doing it that way, Janine, is because it makes sense to me. You know, I, I— that's how I I train myself, I make sure I've got that balance, and I would want to give that to the women that come to me. I train mainly women. I understand, seem to understand women's bodies better than men's. It's super important to get, you know, to get to know your clients. And, and as I said, when women are going through these stages of menopause, or even after having a baby, hormones are all over the place. It's hormones that are the key, I think, factor for me. You need that specific attention to certain aspects and part of you, and you need someone who understands what you're thinking and going through because it can be so difficult. Just sometimes even understanding a woman's cycle and her period— and that's why I say it again, I say to them, listen, it doesn't matter which bit of your cycle you're in, but tell me if you're due on your period, because we will change the workout. We need to. There is no point me trying to give you your heaviest weight, um, you know, at this point because you're not going to do it. But in 2 weeks' time, I can give you a weight or I can give you an exercise and your, your brain will be able to understand what I'm saying and your body will do as well. But in 2 weeks' time or 3 weeks' time, no hope. It's like I could be talking to, like, could be speaking, you know, you know, any kind of language to you, but you wouldn't understand what I was saying. It's true. It's so true, though, isn't it? I even struggle to park my car when I'm around that certain time. Oh, gosh. About 2 or 3 days a month, I can't park my car. I have to turn the music down. So training in the gym, forget it. Forget it. Completely forget it. And I think that's really key to anyone listening. So if you're thinking like, oh, I'm in the gym or working out and I'm not being able to do what I can do normally, that's normal. Don't beat yourself up. It's absolutely normal. As Mira says, um, you know, just give yourself a, you know, be caring, like be gentle with yourself. Give yourself that space to recover, relax, and, um, obviously start doing Mira's training sessions. Oh, yes, yeah, come join me, join me. Absolutely would love that. What is your website so for people listening so they can find you? Okay, so it's www.mirabogle.com. Okay, uh, that's the website. I'm on Instagram as Mira Bogle, um, and I also have an Instagram account which is called The Training Club as well. So I'm, I'm really active on Instagram more than anything else. I am on TikTok as well as Mira Bogle, um, so that's kind of where you'll get most of the, um, exactly, exactly. Um, but yeah, so you can, you can find me on all those things, but Instagram for me is the main thing. I do love Instagram. I find that, um, it's, it's, it's a, it's a brilliant platform. And I also, you know, if you're— if you do follow me on Instagram, I will often tag some really good accounts to follow as well. Um, who've got— again, if you're looking for information about menopause, perimenopause, postmenopause, um, some really good, um, good accounts to follow as well. And there are a couple of books as well that I've been featured in. So there's a book which is really good called The Power Decade, which is by Susan Saunders, and I've got a chapter on there on, on mindset. Um, so she's talked about kind of the time after menopause, postmenopause, but also Louise Newson's new book as well. Uh, my story has been featured in there as well. And, you know, she has some really useful tips and information on her website as well. Do have a menopause conference coming up though, in, uh, on July 1st. So I've got that coming up, which is for professionals as well as kind of, I say, lay people, you know, everybody basically. But a space to learn a little bit more about menopause and get some real good factual information. But come, come along, it's in London, uh, she's just outside London, I think, in Denham, but not too far. Private airline in Denham, so anybody wants to take the— oh, you can fly in. How else does one travel? You know, that's a useful bit of information. I just— I'm like a sponge of useless information there, honestly. I've got to remember that one. I'll tell Harry. Harry, we're going to fly out of the, uh, in and out of that private, private Private small airport. Yeah, I don't travel by car anymore, I just— just on the plane. Is there anything that you would like to share with our listeners, um, as a little passing bit of wisdom and knowledge? I'd just like to say that really menopause is nothing to be frightened about. Do not be scared of it at all. It is a stage of life, and you just get the right knowledge and information, it— you'll be— you'll feel much better about it. And then once you— once you're postmenopausal, I promise you, life is so much better, and it's— it's nothing to be frightened of at all. That's great. And obviously go to the menopause conference, which you will learn. Oh, please do. You'll get lots of information. Well, you— so how will that work? Will people buy tickets to that? Yes, yes. So the tickets will be priced about £50 £20 per person, but that's for a full day and you get your meals and teas and coffees and everything there as well. So yeah, it's going to be— so we're hoping to get some speakers on, uh, talk about sex and relationships, uh, I'm hoping to get a doctor to talk about HRT, someone to talk about nutrition. So it's a real kind of holistic approach to how, how we can manage menopause and what is menopause as well, getting really good factual information as well. That's fantastic. That's really good value as well, actually. It's really, it's really good for that. Yeah, it is. It's really Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we try and keep things accessible. I'd call what you're doing personalized training. So it's not personal training, it's not one-on-one, but it's personalized still. Oh, I like that. I think I might use that. That is a gift from me. There you go. Thank you so much. I will take that gift with both hands. That's wonderful. Oh, Mira, it's been an absolute pleasure. You are a little, uh, wealth of information. It's been fantastic. I've loved listening to you and sharing your knowledge, and I will be taking a lot of those tips on board into my own life as well, and my own little perimenopausal journey, which is joy. Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you for listening. We are on at 9 AM and 9 PM every day, all week. You can listen to the recording of the show, which will be on the Women's Radio Station's website and the eatlovedo.com website as well. Remember to head over to our socials. Remember to go over to Mira's and give her some love as well. Yes, please. Yay! Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me.