Eat Love Do – Naomi & Martin, How To Have A Lasting & Amazing Relationship

Hello and welcome to this week's episode. I'm Ginny Newbury and this is the Eat Love Do Show exclusive to Women's Radio Station. Please do follow us on our social medias at Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We're @WomensRadioStN. And our YouTube channel, remember to hit that like and subscribe button because it really does help us. Thank you so much. So this is Eat Love Do, the show for you, because what you eat, how you love yourself and others, and what you do on a daily basis to make more health, happiness, and general awesomeness in your life. Matters. We've got quite a show for you, um, this week. We are focusing on the love section of Eat Love Do. Yes, this week's guests, two guests, not just one, will be chatting about love and relationships. So if you want to know about more about how to have amazing relationships in your life, uh, with yourself and others and with that intimate partner, then listen up. This is going to be the show for you. So, uh, without further ado, let's get started. Oh, and before we do get started, I just want to say a special thank you to this episode's sponsor, which is eatlovedo.com. Yes, that happens to be my website. Yes, I'm sponsoring my own show and advertising it. I can do what I like. It's my show. Joking aside, it is a great resource, um, full of articles from experts in their fields sharing their information and knowledge for free on there through the blog. Helping you be healthier, happier, and have more of what you love in your life. And do keep going back and checking out the site because we will be adding online courses and in-person events, um, and we'll keep, keep growing. And just to help you create what you'd love more in your life, if you'd like to contribute to the website, an article, or an online course, do reach out to me in my DMs on social media at Eat Love Do or at Janine Newbury. I am on all of my social medias, Insta, Facebook, and Twitter. So thank you very much. Today I've got some amazing guests. I've got a dynamic duo, a couple that are relationship coaches and absolute experts in their field, not just because of their knowledge but because of their amazing relationship together as well. I can't wait to bring them on. I actually went to school with Martin, so I'm quite excited about this. Um, so yeah, so yeah, but no, let's not talk about anything that went on in the playgrounds. Nothing actually, I'm just making stuff up. Um, but they're absolutely amazing. And the, the reason I wanted to bring these guys on is because I've been following them on social media for some time, um, and I've been following Marlon because obviously one of my school people, um, and he has just got such an authenticity about him and the way that he has been sharing his journey and things that he's been through. And now him and Naomi teaming up and doing the relationship stuff, and they really are, um, an amazing couple. You can see the love between them, you can see that they genuinely care about the people that they're wanting to help, and it really shines through. And I had to bring them on because this show is all about genuine people and genuinely helping people, and I think you're going to absolutely love what they've got to share. So without further ado, Martin and Naomi, welcome to the show. Welcome. Hello. Thank you for having us. I feel like there should be a big round of applause to bring them on. That's my sound effect. Low-budget sound effect. No, thank you. And obviously when you messaged and got in touch and I said to Naomi, come on, let's do this, because obviously, as you said, we went to school and it's been— we spoke the other day, it's been probably a long time, maybe 20, 25 years or whatever. You're giving away our age, Martin. It was 10 years ago we were at school. 10. I know when people, when they see the clips, they'll be like, no way, no way, like they're much younger than that, you know, but obviously, obviously. We're delighted to be here. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for having us. Yeah, absolutely. Pleasure, pleasure. So you guys are now, um, in the— going into the realms of relationship coaching, which is fantastic. I've been watching some of your stuff you've been putting out on social media. It's really inspiring, um, and it's really obvious that you've got an amazing relationship together as well. Um, so do you want to share a little bit about your journey and how you got started on that? Yeah, yeah. Do you want to go? Do you want to go first? We do always joke that we're sort of partners in life business and crime of fashion, usually. Our Socks and Sandals, uh, posts, we do that. But yeah, we've, um, we've been together now for the last— how long? Just before lockdown, actually. Uh, yeah, well, end of 2019. Yeah, we've been together, but both also been on our own individual journeys of, uh, you know, getting to this point. He's laughing already. If you want to, if you want to test the relationship, what you do is you, you move in together just before lockdown. So that really made or breaks relationships, isn't it? Like 24/7 with someone. I think it's probably how we've designed our programs through actually living it, figuring out, you know, what do couples come up against a lot of the time? What are the biggest struggles? What do you have to work through? Not only just for yourself, but as a, as a couple as well. Um, and yeah, definitely. And I think for us, of course, we were in previous marriages and relationships, and then we've got 4 daughters between us. So trying to integrate, you know, people talk about the blended family, don't they? And so the dynamics of that. And as we told you earlier, Janine, I've now got 4 daughters, so I'm gonna have a very interesting day. I keep joking that I'm gonna, I'm gonna take up go off and like join the PGA Tour or something. You're surrounded, there's a lot of estrogen surrounding you. There's a lot of hysteria, drama occasionally, isn't there? Yeah, it's all good though. But yeah, so through that process, I think that's helped us to develop the kind of the stuff that we, we do together. I know obviously for me, before professional sport was my career, Naomi always teases me that I never mentioned that I used to play football. Like, don't really— football away. No, no. Oh my goodness, I don't really like talking about it, but, uh, so I know, like, with my story retiring from professional sport, and, and obviously what's in the news and, and people are becoming more aware of now, is that kind of once you retire from like the forces or a career where you totally identify with that role because you've done it for so long, when you retire, then there's a lot of changes that happen in your life and you kind of lose yourself. And so for me, that decline then with my mental health was where I found myself at the precipice, really. I think it was 2013. 13, where I didn't really want to be here anymore, but I had no understanding and reasons why. Because on paper, everything should be, should be great, shouldn't it? You know, you're healthy, you've got, you know, your family, got kids, you've got a job. But underneath all that was really, really, really sad. And I suppose through, I suppose, discovery of that, like retracing the steps, what happened, why, and then through doing that, you're able to kind of develop a different relationship with yourself because you have to. And then you understand different things that you did after that ending of it. I mean, that was a relationship as well. And I think, you know, I often say that was like, you know, my first love was football. They had it for such a long time. When it came to an end, it's a little bit like a grieving process that many people don't think of. Well, you've only quit your job, but actually it's been your whole life. So going through that process then, and then arriving at the point where I'm at now, you know, coming out of a marriage and then moving away from home, moving away from kids, starting up a new relationship. It's been quite an interesting probably last 3 years, but certainly 9 years, which has led us to, you know, where we are today. And I know for Naomi, her story's, you know, obviously not the same, but there's a lot of synchronicity and similarities within what we've both kind of been through previously, you know. And I think going back on just what you were talking about then, that grieving process, I think A lot, probably a lot of people listening can relate to this, especially through lockdown as well. But when you change a career or move a home or leave a relationship or someone leaves your life, all of that is a grieving process. And it's not just the loss of the person or the thing or the career. It's, I think it's also the loss of the identity of who you were. Because I think as humans, we tend to associate our whole identity with what we do as a career. So for you, you were a footballer. That's who you were. And then suddenly you're not. So who are you now? And I think that's— it's like that whole thing. And also you've got the physical activity of the playing the sport as well. I went through something similar when I had an accident in Bali and ripped my knee to pieces. I was a model, I was really fit and active. My whole life was about health and nutrition and fit and be having a strong body. And then I suddenly couldn't walk, I couldn't move, and I had to sort of grieve all of that. So I can completely relate to that, and I'm sure there's people listening that can. And I've watched your journey going through that, and I really admire the fact that you were really open and honest and shared that on social media as well, because I and that inspired a lot of people, and it definitely inspired me on some of your posts, which is one of the reasons I wanted to bring you on, really. And I'm so happy that you've met Naomi because she's awesome. I've been watching us, your couple stuff. Um, Naomi, let's hear from you. So what, um, so what's a little bit background in you, your journey to getting to where you are now, just so people can sort of understand who you are? Yeah, so my background is I was a midwife before I come out of school, and I did that for many, many years um, and I absolutely, I loved that. And the reason I stopped doing that was because when I had my own babies, I, uh, it's tricky to deliver other people's babies and manage your own. But during that, um, during that time, I was just, um, I don't know, I was in a marriage that I wasn't happy in, uh, just we grew apart. Been together since we were 15, so very naturally we kind of like grew up together. But in that also we grew apart. But my life had become very, um, I felt like I was just stuck, stuck in a, in a massive, uh, rut. I also, um, put on loads of weight. So I'm, I'm sitting here now 9 and a half stone lighter than I was at the time. And I don't know, something happened in my marriage. It was a massive wake-up call, and it was kind of like, what are you gonna do? What are you doing? You're 35 years old. Is this— are you okay with this or is there something— is there more? Is there different out there for you? And both of us, you know, like with my ex, you know, both of us were unhappy, I think. So it was just in this process of coming out of it. So I lost a load of weight thinking, I'll be happy then. I'll be happy when I've lost a load of weight. And I wasn't happy when I lost a load of weight. I was still— there was still just something missing. So that's what then started me off on this journey of sort of personal development. And figuring some stuff out because we talk relationships all the time. We talk relationships between couples, but ultimately the most important relationship you have is that one with yourself. It's going from— we find now, and I've done it in the past, you go from relationship to relationship, whether that's with friends or whatever it is, and you are still there. You are still there taking everything with you, all your hangups, all your worries, all your fears. Expecting it to be different because you're surrounded by different people. And actually, patterns still happen, don't they? Things still— you still can't quite figure out why it just doesn't feel right. So hence then, that's when I went on my journey. Then, uh, you know, I've been coached now, absolutely loved it, loved what it's brought, uh, for me, and really opened up my world to, to this. And I love it. And that's why we are so passionate. We are when it comes to our clients. You know, you said that at the start, we really do care about people. People are our focus because they come to us, or we see it, and they are sad and they don't know what to do. And it's that not knowing, is it? That's where I was. I was sitting there thinking, I know something needs to change, but I just don't— I don't know how. And it's really scary as well. It's really scary to suddenly say, I want something different. So that's where we— I think, yeah, the realization as well for both of was reaching those points, and I know from that point where I was many years ago, you, you can't— you don't know how long you've got left. And so I said to myself, you don't know how long you've got, but how long do you want to spend being unhappy? And that was the— you know, that's the question we asked so many people. You don't know how long you've got left, how long do you want to spend in that time being unhappy? Because actually you can do something about that if you, if you want to, you know. So very much that's the narrative and the process and the mantra that we think of every day. Even when things do bother us and we have challenges like everybody else, I always think to myself, how long am I going to spend being unhappy about this? Because actually, do I want to spend the time I've got being unhappy? And the answer is no, I don't. I want to be happy. So there we thought, we learned to let things go. We learned how to deal with stuff, accept, and then take responsibility and move on. And actually, that's the first, uh, Part of our course and our coaching method that we teach people is always acceptance and responsibility, because often people come to us and they're pointing the finger that way. If they would change, I can be happy. Yeah, and we've all done it, we've all done it, we've all been guilty of it until you learn that's not how it is. That's all you know, right? The bitterest, the bitterest pill you ever have to swallow is understanding that you're a massive part of being unhappy. But the great thing is you're going to be a massive part of being happy as well. Yeah. And so that's where you can take the encouragement from, you know. So that's what we, we start people off on, is this awareness of self. And like what you've said before, that relationship with yourself is the most important one you will ever have. Yet most of us don't nurture that relationship. We, we do it with all the other ones, you know. Yeah, yeah. And I think often, and I think women are probably more guilty of this than men, that we think the other people in our lives are more important. We take care of them the kids, the partner, friends. I mean, I've done— I spent a lot of my life doing that, taking care of everyone else and feeling completely burnt out. I didn't have any— anything to give for myself or even the relationships I've been in. So I think this is great. And I think you, um, in your program, that first step of getting people to take responsibility and know that it's empowering, really. You've got the power to create your own happiness, to be happy or not. It's, it's not anything to do with anything or anyone external. It's actually you. And we're not taught this. And I think once you get that, that is the most powerful thing you can teach anyone. So the fact that you're taking people through this in your program, I think is amazing and immense, and that is life-changing in itself. I'm very excited to hear about your stuff. So if anyone's in a relationship or wanting a relationship or come out of a relationship, listen up because this stuff is going to be golden. Everyone's on the edge of the seat now going, tell me, tell me more. So, uh, so tell us a little bit about, um, like how you help people in relationships and any kind of advice, um, that you can give to any of our listeners that they can maybe take on board for themselves. Yeah, yeah. So, well, when people, um, so we, we mainly, um, say we work with couples. Sometimes one part of the couple isn't quite ready to come, so we very usually pretty much 90% of the time it's the man who doesn't— I don't need to do anything, I'm all right, if she changes then it'll all be okay, you know. And it's like, actually, lads, yeah, I don't think that's the case. But anyway, Martin, can you just say that again? Kidding. 90% of the time it's the man who doesn't think he needs to change, it's the woman who needs to change. And we often say, I'm not sure that's quite I read them yesterday, it was brilliant. It was one of Mel Robbins's quotes. It says that we are all a nightmare to live with. It's just we like to highlight our partner's, uh, sort of downfalls rather than our own. But if we all just sit back and have a little think, actually we have all got stuff to work on. And when two people go to work on that stuff, their relationship just— it changes like magic. I always say it's a bit like magic because it just suddenly transforms overnight. And this overnight bit— but we do end up sometimes just working with one part. The women, they do come, they are, um, a little bit more open to just talking. And I think this is definitely something we are finding, that we hear about men don't talk. There is a, there is a lot of resistance to men opening up, to being— becoming vulnerable. Well, and the theory that we have about this, even if it's within the mental health space as well, like, you know, people talk about Men Don't Talk. But I, I think it's, it's our program in terms of what is our— what is it— what is our belief to be a man? And so to be a man is to be strong, is to be steadfast, is to be a provider, is to be a fixer. But what if feeling the way you do goes against your belief of what it is to be a man? You are not going to speak because you're going against your programming. And so that's why you don't talk, because now if we go and speak and admit our vulnerabilities somehow now we're not man. And that's the worst thing for us. So we'd rather grit our teeth, grin and bear it, and hope it'll be okay, because now we can still be a man, because that's what the book— for what men do. So it's trying to change the narrative and say to men, by not speaking out, you're not being strong. Actually, to show your vulnerability is what will probably— it's good. Well, I know, not probably, will definitely help you move through that harder time. And another thing, if you, if you can be vulnerable as a man, I think probably women quite like that as well. So it might— if you're single, might do— it might do you a favor to be a little more open and vulnerable, you know, because that's what— everyone's hiding behind a mask. Yeah. And it's the vulnerability, I think, that then gives people, other people, the permission to be vulnerable. So when you said about me being open about my experiences, I've done that because yes, it helps me, but I figure, will it give someone else— if he's saying it, then I can say it, you know. And then that's the process of this vulnerability. Yeah, then when it does, right? Yeah, it gives other people permission as well. If men see them opening up and it's okay, then it gives them permission. They're like, oh, they didn't die, they're not less of a man. Actually, it makes more connection this is a good thing, they'll probably do it more. Yeah, always say when you go, if you're in a, I don't know, you might be in a workshop or you're meeting people for the first time, or like being at school when people say, does everybody, does anyone not understand? Nobody wants to put their hand up because they don't want to be the, the one, but once someone puts their hand up, how many other people go, yeah, I didn't understand that either. It's the same kind of process, isn't it? It's like just saying I'm not okay. But actually, what I'm not going to do— and this is the next part of this, this acceptance and responsibility— we say, I'm not all right, but actually I'm going to take responsibility for the part I played getting there, not— but without guilt and without shame. But also I'm going to take responsibility for the next bit of my recovery, or who I'm going to be moving forward, because that's the, the next bit. It's all right to admit that you're not feeling great, but to continually stay there, that's the bit where we say, well, that's not, that's not okay. It's about what can we now do to move, to move forward, you know? Yeah, I think I can just kind of wallow in that kind of self-pity, can turn into depression, guilt, all that sort of— yeah, yeah, they beat themselves up, they, they do. And I work with— I tend to work more with the women, don't we? And we do coach them together, but we also then do coach them separately. And a lot of guilt comes with women, they do come, especially, um when there's kids involved as well. And there's just, oh, I've been failure. That's a brilliant word. Keeps going, I failed as a mother, I failed as a partner, I'm failing in my job, I can do nothing well. And there's so much like, like women come with all, with this guilt they are carrying, and it's heavy. And they're sad, they're really, really sad. And the first, um, time we get, I get with them, it's, it's just that they just talk, they let it all out. And it's then this sort of process of kind of a forgiveness. Thank this lady for who you've been. She's got you to this point. And also, you are coming with a lot of strength as well. What have you learned from all of this? What have you now got that you can use to take forward? And we always say, um, and we talk very much with couples, this willingness to meet each other as you are now, not who you were yesterday or a year ago or whatever. Let's meet each other. Let's start now. Let's meet each other as we are now. We're going to meet each other new every single day, but you're also going to do that for yourself too, because I love that. I love that. It's about being present. Exactly. So what we did yesterday, it might not have gone how we would have liked, but what have we learned from it? Which bits are we going to keep? Which bits are we going to do differently? And that's what we do. So meet each— meet yourself first and foremost every morning. Who am I going to be today? How am I going to be? And then forgive and thank the person you were yesterday. And it's really, when we say this, we see them like sit up because you're going to now step into this person you are going to be. You have a choice every single day. And if we say this once, we say it again, over and over. We do all have a choice. And sometimes that's quite— people think, no, I don't, what are you talking about? But just through this process of hearing people explaining this first step, literally this acceptance responsibility, before we've even moved on to anything else, it's then suddenly like, wow, it's really, it's really powerful. Because if you're in the present moment, you can't feel guilt. You can only feel guilt if you're living in the past and you're remembering all the stuff I did or didn't do. And like worry and fear is, and anxiety is on the future. So if you're in that present moment, it immediately kind of eradicates all that guilt and the anxiety because you can't feel them if you're living now. And you accept yourself one day, it just takes that pressure off, doesn't it? Like every day, like you're reborn every day, a new day, and you step in every day and say, who am I now? And loving yourself in that space now, that's so powerful. I love that. But yeah, and one of the things with guilt as well, we say this and people often reject this when we say it, but guilt is just our own attempt to feel better or gain salvation for ourselves, right? So when people say, oh, I feel guilty, guilt is created by us to feel better about the things that we either did or didn't do, but we did them anyway. And so we should have— people get frustrated sometimes when they say that, because how many people are racked with guilt? And when you say to them, but that's your— you're just trying to feel better. Guilt is— I say guilt is overrated. Now, this is not to say to me, go and do what you want and treat everybody horribly and never feel guilty about it. But what we're saying is, if you're wrapped in guilt, look at what it is that you feel guilty about, because it is an attempt to feel better about yourself. When you can drop the guilt— this is a massive one for people— for everything that's happened in the past, or things you should or shouldn't have done, it creates an opportunity for you to grow. But while you're sat in guilt, you just want people to think that you're a good person for feeling guilty, because what if you said you didn't feel guilty about something? People think that you're not very nice. And how often do we hear that certainly as children as well, or when we're younger, that people try to guilt you or shame you into feeling a certain way. You should feel bad for stealing Timothy's sweetie. And if you know you are sitting in guilt because of things that have happened and you're still doing it, what is it that you do need to change? What is it? And it's— I say with all of this, this isn't a sort of a beat yourself up exercise. This is an exciting exercise to do. Get curious about it. Yeah, start to investigate what it is that you're doing, why you're doing it, how are you feeling from it. It's like a little checklist every day. This is why I love journaling. I always set my lot off, they all start with journaling, because just at the end of the day— it doesn't have to be a dear diary, today I did this— how are you feeling at the end of the day? What went well? What didn't go so well? Who were you hanging out with? How did you feel? Just start to have a little check-in with yourself on a daily basis to see what it is you are doing. Because I know before, myself, I was just being swept along with life. I was, and I didn't really know. I felt dreadful, but I never actually questioned, what is it that I'm doing? Why, why do I feel dreadful on a daily basis? What, what could I change? Um, because again, I didn't know any of this. And that's the last, that's the one other point with guilt is we can sit and beat ourselves up for the things we've done, but we have done them, and we are always— I always think you are doing what you do with the knowledge that you've got at the time. Yeah. So a year down the line, when you know better or you know different and you are being different, then let yourself— let that past person off the hook a little bit. Yeah. Because they didn't know any different. Uh, and that's a— that is a lovely one. Sometimes you can see, sometimes that's a bit of a release then of Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, that's a real true form of self-love, I think, as well. Like, just loving and accepting and forgiving yourself is really powerful because I think we put so much more pressure on ourselves than other people, really. I think we're our own— like, we criticize ourselves more than anybody else. Yes. I think I was in a store the other day and a girl asked, oh, you look nice. And she went, oh no, my lashes have got gaps in. Like, it was really critical. I didn't even see that. I said, yeah. And I just said, so we criticize ourselves more than others. She went, yeah, you're right. I said, your lashes look amazing. It's just like something simple like that, but we do it with everything and bigger things and relationships and kids and other things like that. I think you've really hit the nail on the head with that and getting people to acknowledge that. And I love what you said about like just forgive yourself because you didn't know better then. We only know what we know and we're constantly learning and evolving. So I think that's really powerful as well. So I love what you just said there with the confidence. So how good are we at taking on the negative but we'll reject anything nice anyone says to us? So we're quite They always— when we get them in, oh yeah, we always say something, we're really nice to them, complimentary, because we want to see how they react to it. Yeah. And often they squirm. You can see them like— it's horrible for them when we say something like, you know, we think you're a beautiful person, or, you know, we have— like you said, yeah, but there's always a but. So what we ask clients to do as well is compliment other people, but then if someone compliments you, just say thank you. Thank you. Because we always want to justify why someone's complimented us rather than just being all right. We'll pick a fault. We're more comfortable with hearing criticism than we are compliments. Or it's not okay to think you're amazing because if you do, it's egoic or narcissistic or something. Whereas, and accepted somehow wrong accepting a compliment. But actually, yeah, we should compliment each other more because we're all amazing. And that's what, that's what goes on in my little head. Everyone's amazing. A little insight into my psyche there. But joking aside, it's true, isn't it? We should, we, we should, we— and I think that's a form of sort of not loving yourself and being afraid of being judged because, oh, I can't think that, I can't take that. And it's really sad. Yeah, the reason we do it with couples is because if you're very critical of yourself, you will be critical of others. So when you have two people who are critical of self This is then where the criticism of each other comes in. So if we constantly pick fault with ourselves, we will find fault with the person that we're with. So how can we spin this around? What, what's good about you? What's good about them? And it becomes— it's practice. We— anything we have, uh, is natural, normal to us, we've practiced that and we've become really good at. And if people are like, what even does that mean? But if you've become really good at being critical you're going to be brilliant at it. Now, you always say, "Well, class, you can have a medal!" The more uncomfortable anything feels, this is good because it's just a little sign that you don't do it very often. So to pay a compliment, to receive a compliment, to say something nice about yourself, if it feels uncomfortable and you are cringing, this is a sign that it needs to be— start doing it a little bit more because get better at it the more you do it. You practice, and then suddenly it becomes comfortable again. And it's, it's this process then we take, um, couples through. And for people listening, if you do not like compliments, what we would recommend is you go and compliment everybody else, because your unconscious mind doesn't know the difference between you saying it to someone else or yourself. So go and be nice about other people, because you will feel that yourself, because everybody knows how good give a compliment to someone, like when you do something nice. So actually what we say, what you do for someone else, actually you're going to do for yourself. You are what you say you are, like the kids say. So it's like, to people who gossip a lot, you think that they're talking about the other person and behind the back, and not— but actually you're hearing all that, and so you're doing the same to yourself. So it's like, that's, you know, we often say that. So if you feel uncomfortable with receiving compliments, just go and give as many as you can, genuinely, not to be false. You'll feel much better about yourself as well in the process. Yeah, I think that's really brilliant. That's a really brilliant exercise. And yeah, so you get used to it, and then I think that's fantastic. And I— and talking about gossiping as well, that's one of my biggest bugaboos. I don't like people that gossip about others because it's like, if they're talking about others, what are they saying about you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then also, and also, I always try and like nip it in the bud straight away, and I'm like, well, what's good about this person? Yeah, like instantly, like, yeah. And they're like, what? Just to get them to repro— like, think the other way as well. Because I think people get in that pattern of being negative, criticism, gossiping. It's a way of connecting, like, well, we all come down together and we're all down here. Well, really, should we all be raising up and raising each other up? Uh, it's level. Yeah. And you, if, um, you know, if you do think that different, you don't enjoy it, it's about not joining it. Yeah. We always say it's easy to be in, um, demolition rather than construction. It's easy. Yeah, you can knock a building down in happen, but to build it up, it takes time. It's the same with people. Yeah, to knock people down to your level, because then you don't have to do the work to build yourself up to theirs. And that's where judgment, criticism, uh, comes in. It's like when people start a new, you know, they might start something new, might they, and then people criticize them. Whether it's a new business, relationship, hobby, and you always find someone who comes to criticize you for that, where, well, Once you understand that says that's more about them than it is about the thing you're doing, yeah, you can then understand where they're coming from. They, they see that as a slight on them, and they're not prepared to do the work to climb up and do that. So it's easier to drag you, drag you back. And, and so that's when you can— it enables you not to take things as personally when people are coming at you. Because one of the sayings I often say is, when you think it's about you it's not, it's about them. And when you think it's about them, it's not, it's about you. So everyone is always the opposite. So something— if you take something personally that something someone said, I always think that says more about them that they're coming at me and saying that thing. And when I'm blaming someone else for the way I feel, yeah, it's not them, it's me. Yeah. We are so curious. It's surreal. So I would say to people, whichever way you think it is, it's the other way, it's the other way around. Flip it around, you know, because it'll help you to— like Missy Elliott says, flip it and reverse it. Yeah, it's people's limitations. So everyone, we've all got our limits, haven't we? We've all got our, um, beliefs as to what we can and can't do. And if we see somebody doing something that we believe we couldn't do, that's when our insecurities come out to play. And instead of— again, I'm always like, get curious with that. If it is something you see somebody doing that you would love to do, instead of criticizing and sitting there and then beat yourself up going, oh God, I'll never achieve that, go and find out. Go and find out how they've done it. Go and ask them, because most people that are doing the do will be very willing to help you. And then, and then in relationships, if you translate that into your relationship with. Have you ever done something where you, you've started to grow or do something and your partner has been really resistant to you doing that thing? And it's— so we often talk about, think of— so for both, where's the resistance coming from? And often it comes from fear. So for many, for the one who's, who's not doing the do, there's a fear of, oh, they're going to go off and leave me, I'll be left behind. Yeah. And so that's where where the fear of that comes from. So instead, again, of going with that person or finding out more or being curious, it's easier to try to stop them from doing it and dissuade them. But actually it's coming from that fear of, I don't want you to go on to another level without me because you might leave me and not want to be with me anymore. So again, communication is, listen, I'm doing this thing, this is where I want to go to, and I would love you to come with me. Or, I don't know, I'm a little bit scared, I don't know if I'll be able to do it. That's all right, let's work together. In a simple conversation like that people can solve so many issues because you see, we see it, we hear it. One in the partnership is resistant to the other one. Yeah. And that happens often where we end up working with one person because the partner is resistant to it, really, because they're not sure of what's going to happen. Yeah. Communication is key, key with this. It is that, it is the fear. So, um, sometimes we get couples who, uh, one of them started a new course or they're trying to, you know, develop themselves. They've maybe started a new program, and they might, uh, might take them away from the home a lot more. So one of them has to then take over more of the housework, for example. So there's a lot of resentment then. Instead of, do you know what, we are a couple and we talk about couples goals, we see that the hashtag hits, you know, couples goals all over the place. Instead of saying, gosh, do you know what, whilst you're doing this, I am going to support you by taking on a little bit more of the stuff in the home whilst you do it, because if one of you is winning, both of you win. If you go together, both of you will win. And then some— it'll flip. They might finish that course, and then the other one might want to take on something new, so the other one will pick up the slack. So we, we talk about cooperation versus competition, a partnership. Yeah, yeah. So if you can cooperate, uh, and figure out through communication, which is one of the other, the second step we get into, the biggest one, rather than competition mode, it takes away then the resentment, the frustration, the fears, and it all comes out. And for people listening, I would probably give you this visual. Imagine a wall in front of you that's a really high wall. You're both there, you both need to get over the wall. One needs a foot up first to get up and grab, and then once the person's up on the wall, can you put your hand down to pull, help pull that person up? And that's literally what a relationship is. There's all these walls that are in front of us, and unless you are helping lift someone up and then drag someone up with you, that's where people get stuck. If one of you climbs over the wall, jumps over and leaves the other one, that's not great. Later! I feel like something's come between us. And if someone's like, we need to go over this wall, and you're the one going, well, I'm not giving giving you a follow-up, then you're going nowhere. Because what will happen, they'll go find someone else to give them a lift, a lift up. And then, then what? And so that's why I would say to people who are listening, see every relationship you've got as though that all these walls are in front of you. Together, you're gonna be the one lifting up, or the one who's at the top and helping the other person to climb as well. And if you can keep that kind of visual in your mind, it's going to help you when you come to dealing with these obstacles. Yeah, I really like that analogy. And it's like, yes, every time something comes up, just go, oh, this is the wall. Yeah, helping and who's pushing. That's really lovely. It's a really simple way of getting it. And it's— I think that's a nice way to communicate in a couple as well, because when someone comes up, you can just say to the other one, this is just a wall. So you're giving me a leg up or a pull-up? Which way? Yeah. And it just— yeah, and it separates the issue from you to being somewhat separate. And, you know, if you can make it like a third point, then it's not— it takes the pressure off your relationship as well. So I really— I like that. The wall analogy, that's lovely. And when I'm listening to you talking, I'm also— I was also thinking, it's occurred to me that you're, you're, um, teaching people, helping people in relationships, but this isn't just going to help in intimate relationships. The stuff that you're teaching is going to help in all relationships in life. So our own relationships with ourselves, but also with friends and family members and work colleagues. Yeah, everything you're talking about and teaching people, I think once you know how to relate to someone in an intimate relationship and yourself, that is going to immediately have a knock-on effect to everything. So I think this is really powerful, this stuff. So, uh, we find a lot of, uh, people's relationships change with their children. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is really, um, which is really— yeah, I mean, I mean, other people's relationships in terms of the career changes, they now start to put boundaries in place, whereas before they might have been always working or not being able to say no. They, they generate through working with us and coming on our course to have the confidence to say No, I'm not, I'm not doing that extra shift, or I'm not working then. And then the knock-on is they get home a bit earlier and spend more time with the children, and then that relationship starts to grow because now you're, now you're there. And that's something you said, Janine, now you're present. Yeah. And it's so, it's even little tiny things like that that we've seen with clients where that's become a thing. And for us, there's like, that's the best feeling in the world for us when, when clients say, oh, my relationship with my my daughter or my son or my sister or whoever has improved because I've done this one small thing that I was maybe reluctant. Yeah, to do all your frustrations and, uh, you know, your anger and all of that is inside of you and it's addressing it. How is it we've got— so any, any problem that you have that comes up, that's— it is your problem. And it's then that question is, how is it a problem for me? Because that's who it's a problem for. So if people aren't doing what we want them to do We seem to constantly say yes to things and then it causes us problems. Why can't we say no? How is saying no a problem for me? And then we go deeper and deeper to find out, you know, that we've got— we are— I was a— yeah, what did I say yesterday? I'm a recovering yes person. I am. I love that. I'm a recovering yes person. I'm a recovering yes person actually. I love that. No to people before God, I'd be like, I would be saying yes constantly to things that I knew I couldn't fit in and that it was gonna have an impact on me and probably my kids as well. But scared to say no in case what would people say about me then. And so there's so many— it's never the thing, it's never the surface level. Let's, let's investigate and get to the bottom of it because then it, it does improve all of your relationships. And, uh, yeah, when it comes to communication as well, there's another one we talk to people about, and it's the— when someone says to someone else, you need to, you need to do this. Yeah. And actually what we say to people is just change the word to I need you to. Yeah. You will get a very different response from that person because it's like, you need to get up and go to school, or you need to be ready. It's not that they need to because they don't need to. They don't even really want to go to school. But us as parents, we need them to, because what if they don't go to school? How does that look for— so often we kid ourselves that it's the thing that it's the other person that needs. But if you just say, you need— like, I need you to do this, the person that you're saying it to responds very differently. Because now we all like to help people. So if someone knows that you need their help, what are they gonna— they don't very often say no, do they? So, but when you're telling someone that they need to do it, it sounds like a criticism as well. You're not— you need to do— like, you're doing something wrong, and then that's going to get people's back up and make them defensive. Whereas, yes, I need you too. You're not making them wrong. It's not about them. And you're taking responsibility, which is what you— yeah. And it's that vulnerability. It's that tweak. Yeah, it's that vulnerability again as well, isn't it? I need you to do this for me. So now people can connect on a different level because you're showing that vulnerability rather than putting those barriers up. And like you said, making it personal to the— to the— and it's such a simple switch in language. I mean, Naomi has another great one about like gratitude. When you— when people say, oh, I've got to do this and I've got to do that, you, you change— I literally just changed the letter. I get to do this. So, you know, school run, I've got to go food shopping, I get to do the school run and I get to go food shopping. It just, it just changes up. Like, I've got I want to get out of bed. Well, I get to get out of bed. Aren't I lucky to get out? And listen, I fall down on this one sometimes. This is all we— everything we talk about, we practice, practice, but we do it every day ourselves. But it just changes up how you feel. Real, um, really simple. And communication, I love that part of what we teach because it just transforms, um, relationships. We've I've got a couple at the minute, they've only had one session each. Oh, there's the dog. And we've talked about communication with them, we've worked with them individually, we've just heard what they— how they speak. We've just suggested a few different ways. Try it, it's all a trial. What works for some might not work for others. But we got lovely messages last night from them saying, oh my gosh, there was no conflict, there was something that would have usually ended in a big row, it didn't. We both listened to understand rather than to be heard. And it was just, it was just brilliant, wasn't it? And communication is, is massive, how we, uh, communicate. I, we always say learn to disagree well because conflict is the biggest problem, because we, we all want to be heard and understood, but we're not willing to do the same for anyone else. But if you can learn to disagree well, yeah, it's, it's key, because we're not always going to agree, are we? That was something we spoke about out the other week when people say, 'We'll agree to disagree.' Well, actually, you're still not— you're still not agreeing, and you still don't take the other person's point. You're still holding your ground. You're just saying, 'Well, I'm right, and that's it.' Yeah, that annoys me when someone says that, 'We'll agree to disagree.' That means, 'I'm right, and I don't want to listen.' It's like a screw you, basically. That's what that is. Yay! But I love that, I love those. That's— they're really— they're just such simple tweaks but so powerful, but for everyone involved. That's amazing. And again, I think support is something that we very much ask people and clients to identify, not only who they got for support in terms of, you know, relationships, but even for themselves. But then what are you doing again to support yourself? So obviously when we're talking about out, looking after yourself, that relationship with yourself. Sleep. Yeah, your nutrition. But it's like, yes, these are part of our responsibility to ourselves. And how are you supporting yourself so that you might be the support for someone else as well? And it's similar to like with the airplane, isn't it? Put your own oxygen mask on first. Like, if you're not okay and firing at your best, how are you gonna help other people? And I know for a lot of mums this is a thing, right? Like the guilt of, I've got to make sure everyone else is okay. But we often say to mums is, but how can you be your best if you're not energized and not ready to go? You're not going to be able to do it. So women struggle. I think— I don't know if you agree, but they struggle with time for themselves. And then this guilt comes up. I said to one lady the other day, I said, are you a better person for 23 hours when you have that 1 hour to yourself? And she was like, yeah. I said, so you're either going to feel guilty about having 1 hour or you're going to feel guilty for being dreadful to people for 24 hours. Like, which one would you rather? If we're going to— we talked, we did use the word guilt. That's her word that she used. And she was like, oh my God, I'd rather have the hour and be nicer for the other 23. Than I would for being horrible to everybody for the whole day. And I said exactly, you've got to weigh it up, you know, weigh up which one then creates this nicer environment for everybody and for you, for yourself. I love that, that's really powerful. I had a male client, similar kind of thing, if he'd had not a great day at work, we talked about stopping off for maybe 20 minutes, half an hour before coming home to then just maybe decompress and let the, the day of the work kind of go away, to then step through the door into dad role and husband role. And what the impact of that was, because he was coming home with all the stresses of work and then again not being present, and then the kids are disappointed because dad's not really wanting to play with them, or his partner wasn't. It spoils the rest of the evening. And so for 20 minutes, an hour of just a little strategy to decompress to walk through the door in a different mindset, then the rest of the evening was great. He wasn't getting the cold shoulder from his missus then at night because she, she was happy with him and not annoyed. So that 20 minutes can make such a difference to the rest of your day and also into the next day. So when we talk about these things to people, these are part of the elements we say, what can you do to make sure you're at your best for the people that are around, around you as well? I think that's really powerful. And not 20 minutes to go to the pub and get drunk, like 20 minutes to like maybe go for a walk and whatever you need to do to get into that good space. I think that's really powerful. Yeah, because if you walk through the door and you're still carrying that, the people at home are not in that. They're in that— they're probably excited to see you. Yeah. And then they're in this space and you're— and then that's why you're going to clash, because you— the person walking through the door, the guy, if it's a guy from work, he's probably not feeling heard and understood because you're not seeing the space I'm in. You're not giving me my 10, 15 minutes I need to decompress when I get home. Why are you on me straight away? And they're like, why are you being like this? I'm happy to see you. You're being horrible, or you're being snappy, or whatever, or you're in a mood. Like, why? I'm— and that creates that animosity because neither is understanding the other's mood. So I love that give yourself 20 minutes that you need. Like, just go for a walk, or do, or like, yeah, do, do some breath work or something. That's really Yeah, responsibility. You are responsible for like the energy you bring to anything. You are responsible as you enter that— enter a room or anything. You— it's your responsibility for the energy that you bring. And that's not to say you can't have a sad day or a day when you don't feel great. We all have those. But again, that's your responsibility. And we then always talk about communicate it, communicate it to the people that are around what needs to happen, okay? And it is that, what am I gonna do now to go and feel better? Do I need to just explain, do you know what, I'm not feeling great today, I'm going to take myself for a walk for 20 minutes, or I'm gonna go and have a nap, or I'm gonna go— I don't know, whatever it is that you, you need to do, explain it to your partner instead of huffing around the house and slamming doors and whatever. So then they then think, God, what have I done? Yeah, you But then with this mind reading of nobody's communicating how they, how they feel, and then it's— oh, the old, 'If you love me, you should know how I feel.' So the love language that we talk to people about, this is brilliant. A lot of people don't know about, about the— that everyone's got a different love language. So essentially the way that you like to give and receive love, and this is what causes massive problems in because like we figured this out a while ago, didn't we? So I mean, for you, you're very much— I'm a toucher. I mean, I don't go over and hug. No inappropriate touching, obviously. That could end a relationship quite quickly. I just want to touch everyone and everything. No, but I like to hug. I'm a hugger. You are very much a doer, aren't you? You like to do little jobs. I'm also visual as well, so like, you know, I could be watching the kids play or whatever and I can be looking at them thinking I really love them and I have that feeling. They won't know because I don't say anything. The only thing with that is if people catch you staring at them, so we've got someone who grabs people. And then we've got someone who's just around corners. Yes, we're creepy. That's why we're only allowed to work from home. But for me, yeah, I'm very much about— and I think this is what we've started to notice with a lot of men as well. So lots of men like to be in terms of service. They like to do things. That's how they show love. And so If I'm doing something, like it might be, you know, moving something, cutting the grass, what, you know, putting the bins out, moving this, moving that, doing that. That's our way of showing, showing love. And so, but if that's not understood by the partner, and so like if Naomi wants flowers, is it because it's gestures or her gift, uh, potentially getting gifts? I'm not buying flowers, she's annoyed with me because I didn't buy flowers, and I'm like, yeah, but look at all the jobs I've and she's— but she wants flowers, and I don't know that, and she doesn't know that I've done all these jobs because I love her, and I'm hoping that's going to make life easy for her. This is where then people, people clash, right? Because they don't understand it. They can't appreciate what each other wants or needs. Therefore, they always fall out. Oh well, you never tell me you love me. And but the guy's thinking, yeah, but look at all those things that I've done, you know. There's— is it 5 love languages? Words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service, touch. Physical, yeah. What's the fifth one? Um, that's— it's— I've got it. Oh, I've got the book right here. Put you on the spot now. I can't remember what the fifth one is, but yeah, it's, um, uh, receiving gifts, quality time. Quality time. That's the one. Quality time. Yeah. So yes, and it's like each one's a different language, isn't it? So if yours is words of affirmation, Communication, so you need to hear or be told that you love and to tell people, and yours is acts of service. It's like you're speaking French, they're speaking Chinese, and you're both saying I love you in each other's language, and you're going, you know, it's hard because you're not understanding. So yeah, it's so powerful. So I love that. Yeah, through it now, uh, couples, we, there, we've got a little quiz and to figure out who is whose, just so then we've become aware. We've got one, um, a couple, his is acts of service. And I was speaking to the partner and she said, you know, he emptied all the stuff out the tumble dryer for the first time ever, and then he folded up most of it, but then he, you know, he didn't fold up that other bit because he didn't know where it was and he should have known. I was like, stop, let's just stop. Thank you, thank you for that, I really appreciate it. Would you like me to show you where to go? So it's this— that was his way of showing and starting to change it up. But it's just starting to recognize that, because then in comes the gratitude, which is the other— another part is like, you know, thank you for that. You start to understand, and then what they're doing, and then stop. Because for the guy, maybe if that's my acts of service to show that I'm trying and I love you, and you then criticize me for not knowing where to put that thing away, in my response I'll probably go, well, I'm not going to do that because— and that's where these people start to drift. Because rather than just saying thank you and stopping there without the next bit of— not criticism, but maybe guidance— just leave it there and see what happens. And then once you've maybe done it a few times, then maybe just suggest in a way that the next bit, right? Because that's what you got to do with men, do you mean? You've got to just— women teach them, slowly teach them. They can only do a little bit at a time. So if we've done Really praise us for it and then keep doing it and then just add a little bit on each time and before you know it, yeah, we'll be perfect. Everybody loves to hear it. This is goals, Martha. I'm going to write this down. Just keep a little bit of time, keep praising them, and then give them a bit more. Got it. Yeah, when they're ready, you can introduce something new. But everybody loves to hear a thank you. How much more willing are you to do something again if someone said thank you to you? It's lovely. It's a real— it's the most underrated way of showing any gratitude. Just say thank you. Yeah, it's so simple. Like, with the kids as well, massively, like, thank you for doing things. Because again, us growing up, we never— and not that, you know, parents should be saying thank you all the time, but we start to think about when you get well done said to you, and it's a little bit patronizing, isn't it? 'Oh, well done for walking quietly across the corridor,' and it's like, well, yeah, what about a thank you? Thank you for that. You respond much differently. Lots of schools, it's all about a well done, isn't it? Punishment, reward. When actually, what about gratitude? What— how would that be a better lesson to teach for these younger people coming through to then build their relationships of appreciation and things? It's like the homework, is it? Well done for your homework. Actually, oh, thank you 'Thank you for putting in the time to write that for me to read,' and it just has a different feel about it, doesn't it? 'Thank you.' It's just a lovely— yeah, 'thank you' is a beautiful way of just— really simple and effective. Yeah, that's really good. So anyone who's listening, like, take that on board, and I'm going to start using that a bit more. I think that is really powerful. I remember reading a report once that was talking about people in the workplace. It's slightly different to relationship, but everything's relationships, and they were saying what would create more happiness, and they did surveys over over many, and people would probably think, oh, it's more money, but actually more money came below gratitude, feeling appreciated. So like a little bit more money would make a difference, but more money on top of that didn't really make a difference to their happiness in the workplace. Feeling appreciated, which is gratitude, actually would make people stay more than more money. And I thought, that's actually really powerful. So in every way, relationships, everything. So they appreciate— people who are appreciated will do more anyway. You'll put more effort in, which then will generate more money underneath. Yeah, and well, I often say that with the— with the— back in the, you know, the football days with managers, if you felt appreciated, there were managers that you would run through a brick wall for, and they wouldn't even have to say anything. But there was others who didn't have that, that you wouldn't do that for. And it was just that simple way of how you were treated as a human being within that workplace that then meant didn't need to demand things from people or try to motivate them because they were already motivated because of— they knew how good they felt from that, they were appreciated. So that's a lesson I think for all of us in every relationship, which is like what you said. And interpersonal relationships are the key to our well-being. This is the other thing, you know, people think that they're not, but, but yet we don't get taught how to do relationships because nobody's ever, you know, nobody's ever taught us, you know, they've taught us, you know, Pythagoras' theorem and all algebra, but actually, you know, it is essential to life. It knows the fundamental skills because who are we? Only can learn from the people around us who weren't taught either, either. So it just carries on, isn't it? It's one generation to a next where we never learn anything different to change our relationships for the, for the better, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's lovely. And I think, um, that's a really nice note to end on actually, because we're just coming to an end. I can chat to you guys for hours. I've really said this is over really. I'm like, oh, it's been lovely. But I think that's what that gratitude and saying thankful, that is so powerful. I'm definitely gonna— I'm, I think I do that already, but I think I'm gonna do it more. Like, just hearing you guys, I think anyone at home is listening to Yes, just, just saying thankful and like saying thank you for compliments, thanking people for what they're doing, appreciating them, and then, and letting people know that that's what we'd like as well, not assuming that they'll know. And I think we teach people through what we do, so by thanking others, I think they'll naturally thank us as well. That's really powerful. So thank you for coming on. This has been really wonderful. You've shared such gems, and I think, um, yeah, there's a lot that I think that people can take on that have listened to. And I hope, you know, you carry on going out sharing that love in your work because I think what you're doing is brilliant. I think you're an amazing couple, truly inspiring. I've loved having you on. And where can people find you? I'll pop stuff on social media as well. If they want to find you, where can they find you? We've got our website, probably the quickest one to go to, which is justwanttoelevenit.co.uk. Justwanttoelevenit.co.uk. I'll share that on my socials as well. Yeah, it's all our social media, and then there's, you know, there's different podcasts and all kinds of where people can just tune in and listen to, to some of the things we, we speak about and share. Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on, everyone. Thank you for listening. This is— I'm Janine Newbury. This was the Eat Love Do Show on Women's Radio Station. Um, please do follow us on our socials. We'll be Women's Radio STN. Thank you for listening and see you next time. Goodbye.