Eat Love Do – Lynn Crilly, Hope With Anxiety And Eating Disorders

Hi, I'm Janine Newbery, and this is the Eat Love Do show on Women's Radio Station. Please follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at Women's Station— no, Women's Radio STN. And do take a moment to go to our YouTube channel and hit that like button and subscribe because it really does help us. Thank you so much. So Eat Love Do is the show for you because what you eat, how you love yourself, and what you do on a daily basis to bring more happiness and freedom and health into your life matters. Each, each episode we'll be chatting to guests and experts who will be sharing their knowledge, expertise, and stories and inspiring you, um, to live the best, happiest, healthiest life you can. And today we have a very special guest. We have the lovely Lynn Crilly. She's a phenomenal woman. She's had quite the journey herself. Um, I won't share too much because I want her to share her story, but she is wonderful. She's helped so many other women, and I think you're going to absolutely love her. So So without further ado, Lynn, welcome to the show. Welcome. Thank you. That was an introduction and a half. Oh really? Yeah, I know. It's long as that. And that's half the show gone. Bye. Yeah. That's cool. I know, I'm like, I can't breathe. Lynn, it's really nice having you. You are absolutely phenomenal. I've done a little bit of research on you. You've written many books. You've helped so many women. You've had quite the journey. And you are quite unusual in the way that you are self-taught and you've learned from your own experience rather than just from textbooks. And you— so I think what you bring to the world and the people you help has a depth of knowledge which is really relatable because you understand because you've been through a lot of the things that you help people with. So would you like to share with us what started you on your journey and why you do what you do? Okay, um, yes, of course. Our journey started about 18 years ago now. I've got twin daughters, they're now 31, Charlotte and Samantha. And at the age of 12 and a half, at the age of 13 actually, Sam was diagnosed with the early stages of an eating disorder and OCD. And 18 years ago, mental health wasn't, or mental ill health wasn't talked about as much as it is now. And I think, It sort of hit us. We, from the outside looking in, we were the perfect family. We had our own business. Um, you know, obviously life brought its challenges, but we got over them together. And me and my husband were happy and we had two beautiful girls. And then all of a sudden this unwanted visitor came into our home in like a demon in Sam's head. And we just, We just thought loads of things went through our mind, but we never thought we wouldn't be able to go anywhere and be able to get her the right help. That never entered our minds. We spent the next 3, maybe 4 years going through private and then the NHS. We tried everything. And then we were sitting in this family counselling meeting and I just looked at my family and we were worlds apart from each other. Sam was probably the illest that she'd ever been since we started. Charlotte, who's always been really supportive of her sister, was quite lonely, isolated in her own world, and quite angry. Kevin and I were just desperate, and I just thought, this isn't working. So I took the very unorthodox decision, and I just got up and I said to them, right, we're not doing all of this anymore. We're going to do it ourselves. This just isn't working. So from then on, I had this— I was very blessed. We had the support of our GP and to the girls' school and our family and friends. And I embarked on a journey, probably the steepest learning curve of my life, made lots of mistakes along the way. There were lots of highs and lows. And Sam went into recovery and When you said you embarked on your journey, what did you actually do? What was, what were some of the things that you did and learned to actually help her? I think when we were sitting, I have a very different view, particularly with anorexia, than perhaps some, some other people. They need to— I realized that Sam needed to see a life outside of her eating disorder, not just it all to be about her eating disorder. Obviously it was all done properly and she was monitored medically and everything, but it was just encouraging her and talking to her and encouraging her to talk to us, but also letting her be part of normal life in a safe way. Whereas I am talking to her, showing her, you know, we used to go out like to the pictures or watch a film together or just go for a light walk. And her friends were very good as well. And it was just showing her that there was a life outside of laying on the couch and meal after meal after meal. Which I'm sure a lot of people listening to this that have got anyone suffering from— Sounds like depression as well, that, doesn't it? That's sort of— It leads to it, yes, it does. And also anxiety. I mean, from what I've learned over the years is that all the mental illnesses can go hand in hand. They all borrow traits from each other, and I think that you need to treat them all rather than just one at a time. But then, um, someone came up to me and said, um, would I help their daughter. I mean, Sam went into recovery, she wasn't better, I need to make that quite clear. Um, so, and this person asked me if I would help their daughter because they'd gone through the same as us. And my husband, it was my husband that said to me, why don't you just try, try, you know, you've always loved kids, um, just try. And from then on, people have come. I've never advertised, I've never put myself out there. People have come from actually all over the world. Wow. Which is phenomenal really, that people go and book into a hotel down the road to come work with me. I still can't believe, I think, oh my God, they're coming to my little garden room from America to work with me. But, um, But there's another strain to our story. So although Sam went into recovery, I think the eating disorder went, but the OCD was still very apparent. But the most important thing was she'd always been quirky and different. And I think looking back when she was a child, she'd had, she had OCD, which I do see quite a lot in my clients. And the, but we just thought it was Sam being quirky. The OCD through low self-esteem manifested itself in the eating disorder. The eating disorder went, but she was still left with the OCD. Is OCD something you're born with, or is it something you develop through anxiety and mental health things? I don't know. I think people, different people, use different things, and children, as coping mechanisms. I think Sam, looking back now, we've talked a lot since had quite low self-worth, although she covered it up with her quirky nature. And I think maybe she found control or comfort in these little habits that she created as a child. And a lot of children do, do that. Um, but OCD comes in many forms. I mean, I believe— this is my own personal opinion— that anorexia and bulimia are forms of OCD because it's obsessive behaviour. And a lot of people that— a lot of kids that I've worked with have had OCD when they were younger, and it does manifest itself. It can manifest itself in an eating disorder. Even compulsive eating is obsessive behaviour. But OCD comes in many different guises. I mean, that's a whole story on its own. And Sam said to me she'd never really found where she belonged in what she wanted to do as a career, and she trained as a personal trainer because exercise— as she went into recovery, exercise became quite a big part of who she was. And she said, can I go and do— go back to drama? And she went and did a Level 4 at Kingston College, and they offered her the second year of a degree course, and she graduated 3 years ago, just before the pandemic she graduated. Fantastic. And she wrote, she writes poetry, all her poetry is in my books, and she wrote and published her own poetry book, Hope Through Poetry, and yeah, we've just sort of gone from there. And that's the poetry book that's on your website, I had a little note. Yes, Hope Trooper, I would highly recommend it. It's very inspiring, it comes from the mind of a sufferer, so it will help. It's quite quirky, it's not depressing, and it's safe for young adults to read as well as parents. There's a mine full of different poems in there. That's a really good— and they all end on a positive note. I like that. It's a really lovely approach to it. And then she's also created something else which is quite amazing. I've watched the video. She's made a video which is hilarious, by the way, explaining OCD, a day with her, you know, as an OCD sufferer. And but the way she scripted it and written it is absolutely brilliant. But it keeps it light and fun with a subject that's quite heavy, but she's made it fun and understandable and me watching it, or anybody watching it that doesn't understand OCD, it's really nice to kind of watch and then have an understanding of what somebody goes through, so you can, you can put yourself in their place. So I think it's absolutely wonderful. So do you want to share with us a little bit on that as well? That's quite— it's totally another spin-off to what I've done, and I'm actually embracing it now and loving it. Last year I met with a guy who, am I allowed to say his name? Yeah, of course. Guy Andrews, who is an old friend of mine. And we were talking about Sam and how she could move forward and her OCD. And he just, it was all really flippant. Oh, well, write a day, you know, it's all about write a day in the life of you with OCD. 'Cause there were a couple of things at the table that came up and we were laughing about it. 'Cause Sam does laugh, although it is tormenting. She can also embrace it as well because it is part of her. Anyway, she went away with her friend Meg, who she met at college, and wrote the script for "A Day with OCD." It was filmed on a shoestring. Everyone gave their time and love for nothing. And the film has gone on to be shortlisted for several film awards around the world. It now, It was premiered in London, which was a real success. They have now gone on to write A Day with Anxiety, which is written in the same satirical way, and we're filming in 4 weeks. Oh, that's fantastic. That's absolutely amazing. So where, where can everybody watch this video? If you go, um, my website's in the process of being set up, but it is either on YouTube A Day with OCD, or it will be on my website, lynncrilly.com. Yeah, I think you've got a link to it on your website at the moment, actually. Yes, yeah, the website's being updated now where now I'm being cast as a film producer. Oh, fantastic! Another step up your bow. My family keep taking the mickey out of me now. They think it's all going to my head. I'm really excited because we— I wanted to bring something different to the mental health world, to educate people differently because so many— I mean, I remember when Sam was ill, so many of the books are quite dark, and when you watch some of the short films and documentaries, they're dark. Yeah. And they never really give the viewer, who are normally people, parents, carers, friends, teachers, who are there to learn and maybe they're experiencing it themselves, they never really give hope. And I know that sounds really cliché, but that's why my books are different, because recovery is, is possible, whatever recovery is. I think when we were going through the process of treatment, different treatments, there was always this one set way that she was supposed to recover, and we never quite met that. No, whereas what I've learned— it's different. So how can there be one way for everyone? It's almost like when you get to a certain weight, your periods will come back, but they don't. Or when you do this, this will happen, and all of a sudden everything will be hunky-dory, and, and it's not. And but recovery is different for every person, and just because they don't meet certain targets or certain guidelines or whatever, doesn't mean to say that they're not in recovery. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's really important because everyone is different, so everyone will recover differently. And I think, you know, mental ill health is always, oh, you know, you've got to— you know, we were told so many times, you know, I mean, at one point we didn't think she would make it. Um, it must have been terrifying for you. It was, and it was never— but for me, it was never an option. She was going to get better. And I always say to the people that I work with or people that I meet, never accept that this is as good as it gets because it can always get better. I mean, Sam still does suffer with OCD, obviously, and you can see it in the film, and that was very real to her. All what she went through there was very real, but it doesn't— she just has learned her limits and her triggers and it hasn't stopped her following her dreams, and I've empowered her to believe in herself. I think that she's beginning to. I think that's really inspiring. Like, not— I mean, you're inspiring anyway, just as a woman, as a mother, and a coach. She's incredible. Like, you know, you didn't give up. You're so— you've got such positive mindset and energy, and you were like, I'm absolutely— no, she's getting better. That you were like, absolutely, she's getting better. But, but her herself as well, I think, is really inspiring that even though she's got these things that could potentially be holding her back, she's still out there and creating her dreams and doing it. I think it's inspiring for people that think that maybe they can't do it because of XYZ, like, "Oh, I haven't got the education," or "I'm too old," or "I'm too this." Well, it doesn't matter what's going on. If you want to go for it and go for your dream, you can make it happen. I think that's incredible. I will also bring my other daughter into it because often or not the siblings do get sidelined. And Charlotte did get sidelined, but her loyalty and love for her sister never faded at all, and she was deeply affected during the teen years. She, I think, is probably— Sam says that Charlotte's the wind beneath her wings. Oh, that's wonderful. Charlotte's now— she's blessed us with two grandchildren. We've got twins, a little boy and a little girl, Reggie and Georgia. Congratulations. And she's happily married. But she still, she helped me write the books. She left her job and spent 4 years helping me write my books. So, and she's still, she's actually in the film, she plays the sister, and she's actually pregnant with the babies in the film. So they starred as well in a random film. They did, and they've actually got a part in the next one. They're gonna be in every single one. They have to grow up, bless them. So it's a real family affair. They've become movie stars. Yes, she said she's so happy to get them new outfits. I do have to attribute a lot— Sam's very supported. Not everyone has that support. Yeah, she's very lucky. And Sam does say— she's very quick to say how supported she is. She's very loved by everyone. Yeah, I think you are a very supportive woman, and I think that's probably why you've gone into the profession that you're in. So tell us a little bit about the work that you do with the ladies, because I that I've seen on your website, it seems to be mainly female testimonials. Do you work with men as well, or is it just for women? I do work with men, um, because obviously men do have mental health issues more than what is actually talked about. I think they're more scared to talk about it than women, aren't they, usually? I think there's still a huge stigma around men and mental ill health, although, you know, more recently I have worked with some mainly young guys, but they, they've had more anxiety issues rather than an eating disorder. But eating disorders amongst men and boys is growing, sadly. So, you know, we must never think that it's just a female illness because it's not. But predominantly, I think because of our own story, I've made my name in the eating disorder world because I do think differently. Um, because Sam actually on the side works with me now as a personal trainer. We've got a small gym at the end of our garden, so they safely— I hasten to add— they do train, they build the body that they want. That's when they work. I work with their mind and she works with their bodies. So it's actually— we've done some really powerful work the last couple of years. So, but it's just, um, I think normally people have done the system by the time they come to me, and it's just— and they normally are quite poorly, and it's just working, it's gaining their trust and showing them that they're a person and they're worthy of getting better. And then we just— it comes with time, it evolves with time. And it's just showing them that there's a life outside of the eating disorder, and we have challenges. And, you know, I'm not all lovely, lovely, lovely. I can be strong with them when I have to be, but I think they have to trust you and respect you and your views, and then they listen. Yeah. And it's not easy. I work with the whole family, so we all work together because, you know, they can come to me for an hour and then I keep in touch with them all outside and we work together because I don't know what's going on at home. So, and, um, anorexia and mental illness can be quite deceiving. Yeah. So they may not always tell me what actually is going on. So we work together as a team, it's teamwork. I think that's a really good approach because if you, if you're the person that's got the eating disorder and you go home and the people around you don't understand and can't support support you. And I would imagine that they'd probably hide it from their loved ones and people around them. So I think bringing them all in, and I guess it's setting that sort of foundation of trust and openness which will help them ultimately heal. I think that's fantastic. It's really— and also we build up, we build an armor against the illness so that then it can't permeate its way in and it can't play us all off against each other. Which it does typically, any mental illness, but particularly an eating disorder does do, and OCD. But no, we just, we work all together. It's very intense. They come in, they make things. We do jewellery, we do— I've learned to knit. One of my clients brought some knitting in, so now I knit. Listen, listen, I'm knitting for the babies. I can only knit blankets, but we learn the YouTube channel How to Knit. Brilliant. Started knitting together, and then another one taught me to crochet. Oh, do you know what? I used to knit and crochet with my grandma when I was a little kid. You just took me back about 30, 40 years. I'll be doing with Georgia. Nice. No, we just do all different things. And then I had a young boy that came. He had an eating disorder. He was not the usual run-of-the-mill, different, and we embraced that. And he was really good at woodworking, and he started his— I encouraged him to start his own woodworking business, which he did do with his parents' support. And he messaged me— he went on to do really well— and he messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that he was now in profit. Oh, that's fantastic. That's really— yeah, so, and that was what he went away and did. So yeah, do you find that having— helping people find a focus outside of themselves and a passion project, like, you know, setting up a business like that around woodwork, is what actually helps them get over the illness as well? Because they're focused on something that they love rather than on themselves? Definitely, because it also shows that they're good at something It gives them, you know, it gives them a self-worth because people were ordering off his little website. Yeah. And, you know, people I knew supported him as well to start with, which was really nice. So he had all these— it just made him feel like he was good at something and worthwhile. And he wasn't the university type. He's gone on to do an apprenticeship in woodworking. Which is amazing. And I said, he wants to build boats eventually. And I said, you know, I need to make sure I'm a VIP guest at your— when you've built your first boat. But it also, it takes them away from all what's going— you lose yourself. So he loses himself in it. So then his whole mind isn't consumed. The eating disorder was at the back of his mind rather than at the front because he was— and he was enjoying doing what he was doing. Yeah, so because— so if someone's finding happiness in something else, it— yeah, I guess, I guess it's the whole thing, isn't it? It starts to snowball and you start to heal in one area and it has an effect on everything else. That's really lovely. And that's what, um, you know, they've all got different ways. And also, I think because of, um— I mean, he didn't use social media. He does now, he's got his own little Instagram account, but, um, So many of them, and I was talking to one of the young girls last week, I think lockdown was probably the worst thing that could have happened to the mental health of this country. I think the worst but also the best because it kind of exaggerated everything and it brought it to the forefront and it made it, it almost put people into a state of mental health and suffering. And I think so, it's kind of made it okay to talk about because everyone's kind of been through it on their own journey. And I think it's the worst thing in a way because it made everyone go through it. And it's, you know, like, it's like being locked in a prison cell, isn't it? So brought that out, that being isolated, which is not good for us, we're social creatures. But I think almost by everyone going through it to such a large degree, it's made everyone understand what it is and not, and feel less ashamed to talk about it. So I think it's both sides of the coin really. I think it almost has been a brilliant thing to happen because now people understand it. And I think if you've experienced it yourself, you have an understanding of other people having it and being less judgy. So whilst there's a lot more to do— 100% with that. I hadn't even— you've opened my eyes, Satsi. Like I said to you before, you never stop learning. I think that's a really valid point. I think for the probably under-25s, their phones became their friends. Yeah, because they were stuck in their bedrooms or they were very, very isolated, and they were— their phones, they did their work on their phones, they shopped on their phones, they spoke to their friends on their phones, um, they found dates on their phones. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've forgotten about that. I mean, it's a new way of dating, um, but I think That brought in a whole new wave of mental health issues, especially probably the under-16s who, you know, constantly compare themselves, try and keep up with everything, and there's this huge pressure to conform to this social ideal of perfection which obviously doesn't exist. You know, and even I came off Facebook for a little while because I found it was affecting me, and it shouldn't do because, you know, I'm really happy with my life. But you always look at what other people have got. But I think people— that's not real. No, it is real because it's happening in the moment, unless they're putting, you know, they might put filters on it, but what's not real is it's unbalanced. They're not showing the lows, they're just showing the highs. And so maybe they're just showing the pictures of them on holiday or hanging out with their friends, or— because that's what you'd naturally— that tends to be the, you know, where you'd normally take pictures. Like when you're, I don't know, at a birthday party with friends and you're all dressed up and you look nice, you want to take a picture. You wouldn't probably take pictures of yourself when you're at home in your scruff sitting around with your hair tied in a bun, no makeup, do you know what I mean? And you're just like, just woke up in your old blair yard. You're probably not going to take, you know, or you just coming on your period, you're like having one of those kind of moments, you hate the world and you're smearing yourself in chocolate and ice cream, you know, you're not Instagramming that one, are you? But, um, so I think it sort of creates this imbalance. So when people sort of maybe at the lows and they're looking at people on their highs, they're forgetting that they're just normal people. It's almost created that kind of celebrity culture where, you know, when you look at models or you look at celebrities or people in movies and it's not real, it's, it's fantasy and people sometimes forget it's fantasy. And social media is fantasy because they're just— we're just putting pictures of the highs because we want to share the highs, but we're not sharing the lows. So, and I think people forget that. And, and I think if they just sort of remember that there is the lows and that's all it is, because that's all we're all sharing, then I think people will be less affected by it. And then I, I don't really like this whole kind of filters perfection thing. I think people should be a little bit more real, and it's And yeah, and I think it is creating an imbalance, especially when you're younger. Like you just said, the younger ones, like they're 16, their brains still are still forming and they don't know themselves and they certainly don't know the world yet. They're still kids really at that age. Um, and I think it is really having an impact. And then that being locked away and not having that human interaction, that's how you build social skills and interact with people. And yes, and they're losing that. And it's, yeah, so Yeah, so do you help people with this? Like, is this— is this— have you found that there's been an influx of people coming through, coming out of the lockdown, that are struggling with connection because of being isolated? Has that created more anxiety? I think social anxiety is huge, yes, because I think we all got, you know, and even myself, if I was really honest, last year I found it easier. I buried myself in my work Yeah, so that I didn't have to go out because I'd got used to— because at the beginning of the first lockdown, I mean, everyone was all happy, you know, we had lovely weather. If you were blessed enough to have a nice garden or whatever, you know, time off work. Yeah, and it was almost like, you know, oh my God, I haven't got to go out, I haven't got to go and see anyone, I haven't got to rush about, I haven't got to do this, I haven't got to do that, because you weren't allowed. But I wrote Hope with Anxiety Originally that was meant to be published the following year, but the publishers said to me, can you get it finished? And we have covered the pandemic in that. So I buried myself in writing that, and then obviously a whole influx of work came in, and I found it easier to do that, if I was really honest, than go out. Yeah, I've only just started going out again now. I've just started going out as well. I'm, yeah, and I think like you and I, we, we focus on, you know, mental health stuff. I do coaching and I help people, but even, and I know how to sort of take care of my own mind, so, but even I was feeling like the almost sort of anxiety going out and feeling a bit like, oh, I think I'd rather just stay at home. I'll go out for a few hours and go, I want to go home now. I'm like, I didn't, yeah, be like that. So is there a bit of something bubbling on there, like a little bit of anxiety and I didn't date during lockdown. I was single going into it, and now I'm like, I have no interest in dating. And I'm like, nope, as soon as a guy comes near me, I'm like, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm gonna walk off, nice to meet you, goodbye. I'm like, what's going on there? It's like I've just kind of gone, no, no, put this little bubble around me. And I think that's a remnant of the lockdown as well. I think that's, that's really true because it's maybe we feel safer. Yeah, I don't know. Or I've become more content. Yeah, being at home and having— maybe having people come to me or going to other people. I don't even really— wouldn't really sort of done that. Or just going for a walk. I mean, that was the whole thing. Everyone went for walks, didn't they? Yeah. But And I, and I was really social before the lockdown, so I don't do half, and even now I don't do half, but I'm quite happy with that. I'm not worried. I actually met some friends last week and that was— there were 7 of us and that was the first time that I actually went out for lunch and I loved it. It was really nice actually. I think maybe we found contentment in ourselves as well instead of sort of that need to find it externally, like constantly being out and being social, other people. If I guess if you find it more in yourself, you don't feel that need to go out as much as well anyway. So it could be a bit of both of those things as well. So like an inner contentment. I think that's really true. And I think maybe, I mean, I'm 58 next month, so, and I'm very blessed, I'm very close to both my girls. And you do not look anywhere near that, you look absolutely gorgeous. Really? I'm nearly 60. Yeah, you look fantastic. I can't get up off the floor with the grandchildren as quick as I used to, I have to say. You have to wait till Grandma can get up. But I think— and also I love being with the grandchildren, so when I'm not working, I do tend to sort of be with either of the girls really, or my husband Kevin, who's lovely, very supportive. And he never got— so if there's any men, any husbands of wives there that my husband never got the whole mental illness thing at all, never. Um, but he accepts it now. Yeah, very readily accepts it, and he's very supportive of everything that we do. But I think when it was all going on, he found it really hard. And I see a lot of dads find it hard because, you know, you have this once happy family and then there's— because mental— most mental illnesses are invisible. It's not like you broke your leg or anything like that. It's, you know, well, why can't you just snap out of it? Why can't you just eat? Why can't you, you know, just smile? They can't. It's not that simple. And that put a lot of pressure on our marriage at the time. I can imagine. Because I think men, like, especially the older generation, like my dad's age, and even sort of guys my age, really, like late 40s into 50s, I think that we sort of grow up with not mental illness not being a thing that's accepted. And also I think men or masculine energy tends to have that thing where they want to fix everything and, you know, yeah, and if they can't fix it, it creates like a fear or a frustration in them that can, you know, that can come across. Why can't you just do that? Because they're— they probably feel like a failure on some level because they can't help you and they don't know how to help you. And as a man, I think they want to kind of protect and fix. It was like feminine energy tends to want to nurture, so I guess maybe that sort of brings up that kind of fear in them as well. And that comes, you know, might come across as anger, frustration, confusion, because they can't understand, because they want to be more cerebral, I guess, or more in their approach, or more pragmatic. Like, let's just find a solution, let's just fix it. I think the younger generation is a bit different, but I've noticed in the older generation it's more kind of like that. Particularly with my father and stuff. They just want to fix, and if they can't, they— I think they struggle. Whereas women— I think yes. And I think yes, from a dad's point of view, one of the dads in Hope with Eating Disorder contributed. And her daughter had gone through a private— his daughter had gone through a private hospital, and it hadn't— and it didn't work. And I mean, he was very rich, very powerful, very connected. Blah, blah, blah. Normally he would click his fingers and whatever was happening would be solved. And he actually says in the book, you know, I just couldn't, I couldn't do it. Yeah. You know, normally I can fix everything, family, business, whatever, but I just didn't have, yeah, until she came to me. So yeah, he was very honest and very open about it. He was very proactive within her treatment as well. So yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, I think, yeah, so I think men are dealing with it, but they deal with it in a different way. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So yeah, I just wanted to add that in because it wasn't, you know, I don't want anyone to think that our journey was hunky-dory because it wasn't. Oh my God, of course. And I'm very open about the fact that, you know, it wasn't. So because I see many marriages strained and relationships you know, torn apart and everything. So it's great that you share like that because it's this perfection thing again that everyone thinks that everyone else's relationships are perfect, and on the surface it might look like it, but they're not. Everyone's got problems and issues, and I think the more we share and openly share about it, the more we give each other permission to know that we're okay and what we're going through is okay. And if we're having issues in our relationships or families or friendships or whatever, that's normal and it's part of life and you can work through it. So I think it's really good that people are showing that, and I think it's fantastic that you're sharing your story because that's really paving the way for other people as well. And you've— I know you've written a whole load of books actually. You've got Hope with Anxiety, Hope with Depression, Hope with Eating Disorders, Hope with OCD. I mean, is there anything else? That's like— it's a hope range. I spent 4 years writing. Detecting a theme. Yes, yes, and then obviously Sam's book, "Hope Through Hurt." Yeah, so I would, they took me 4 years to write. I wrote them back to back. Oh, wow. "Hope with Eating Disorders" is the second edition. I wrote the first one 8 years ago. And then when I went to a new publisher, Hamish MacAlfbex, she asked me if I would rewrite that one. And at the time I thought, it was only, I think about 3 years ago, At the time I thought, oh, I'll just add a bit on the end. And then when I actually read the first book, I realized how much eating disorders and the conversation around it and the treatment and just every, every, the way that people looked at it had changed. So I stripped the whole book back and rewrote the whole lot. Yeah, because I guess it's constantly evolving and changing. Yes. We learn more as we go on. And I guess when we've got wonderful people like you that are helping people deal with stuff and it's becomes more open, I think, then I guess we learn more because people share. The books have got over 100 contributors in them. They show there's professionals, both mainstream and alternative, talking about their different type. Because not one treatment works for everyone. Yeah. So no two people are the same. If one treatment's not working, don't be afraid to try another. There are a whole array of treatments out there, and that's what my books show. And there's, um, the— that's really good advice that you just said something then, and that's actually amazing. Like, if it doesn't work, then don't be afraid to try another. That's actually huge because I'm sure there's people going through things and they've tried, I don't know, mental health things, diets, whatever things in their life, and it's not worked and they're giving up. Oh, this is not going to work for me. And it can make people become, I guess, more afraid and more in the shell. But just like, just because that doesn't work for you doesn't mean that something else will. I think that's actually really powerful, so I just want to re-highlight what you just said because that's, that's huge, especially for— I think knowledge is power as well. Research, do your research. You know, there's so many different types of alternative therapists as well now that do work and can help. And, um, I mean, a lot of them are covered in within my books. Um, so I would say You know, even with Sam, we always look for different things that might help her with her OCD, or I might read a book and we might try a different method or a different way of thinking or try something different just to help her. So there's always, you know, like I said before, never accept that this is it. Yeah, because it can always get better, but you have to be proactive to go out there and look, because it is there. They are there. So that's good. So how did you find, um, the things— how did you get out and find the different alternative therapies? What was part, you know, your journey? How did I find— sorry, yeah, then how did you find like the alternative therapies? What was your process? What, for Sam? Yeah, yeah. I didn't— she didn't know when we were going through it. It was just us. And then slowly, as I've learned through the, through the time, no, I've taken her to see more recently, not then, a couple of my friends that might just maybe help her to look at things slightly differently. But Sam, I think, does her own. She knows her own limits and her triggers, and we talk things through. And then sometimes she sees that maybe it was a little bit— because she says you can't reason with something unreasonable, you can't be logic with something illogical. So with mental health, you have to accept it to understand it. That's really good. You can't reason with something unreasonable. And yeah, and there's no logic with something because OCD and eating disorders and most mental illnesses are based on the what-if, which is anxiety is based on what-if. So, you know, OCD I think is very illogical, but so is eating disorders really. Yeah, explain a little bit about the OCD because it's like, if I don't do this something, because I think she said something in the video like, if I don't check these things and my auntie might die or something. OCD comes in many different forms, so And it does tend to attach itself to someone's weakness, which is sometimes why— this is my way of thinking it, isn't it? This is just what I've learned. So like if, say, like for Sam, she looking back now, she did have OCD, probably mild OCD when she was younger, but obviously we didn't even know what OCD was then. We just thought she was being quirky. And then because she was not feeling great about herself and she lost some weight through a virus and people started to say to her, you look really good. And it literally spiraled from there. The OCD attaches itself to— so her weakness was food and how she felt about herself. So then they become obsessed. So it can come on in that form. Or a lot of people have numbers going round and round in their head. They have religious thoughts. Some have sexual thoughts. A lot of people have cleanliness, but sometimes the OCD can borrow from different guises of OCD. Again, the OCD is very unique to that person. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I used to think of— it's very powerful how I've often wondered, and OCD doesn't want that person to be happy, nor does an eating disorder, so I've often wondered how the mind works because it's always trying to get them to be on self-destruct, trying to get them to ruin whatever they're doing. Is it— because is it like when we talk about like the ego, the mind, and the heart, like it's— is it self-destruct or is it trying to protect them from being out in the world or keeping them in this little space? So it's destructing them from having that happiness and joy in the life, that's the outcome come. But do you think the mind is actually trying to protect them from the world in a way and keeping them locked away, which, which is actually ironically taking away all their joy and happiness? I think yes. I think you've summed it up quite well actually. I think the illness wants them to themselves. Yeah, it's like trying to— it's them and them. It's like wants to be their best friend. Yeah, yeah, their only friend almost. Yeah. Possessive kind of best friend. Yeah, it wants to lock you in a little cell away from everybody else. So it's— Sam wrote a really good poem actually called Anna about anorexia. It opens Hope with Eating Disorders, and it, it's really, um, really, really good. And it says about how you're not my friend and blah blah blah. So yes, I would say yeah, it just wants them to themselves, and it's not happy until it has them to itself. And that's the fight that the person has, is with the bully inside their head, the unwanted intruder. It's constantly— there's like a constant war zone going on inside their head, which is why sometimes they can appear quite offish, quite rude, quite removed, because often or not they're having a conversation with themselves in their head. As I'm hearing this, I'm like, because everyone's got this kind of internal voice and like protection mechanisms that come into place from the mind. But it's almost like people with OCD have got an exaggerated version of that, like a huge version of it. Whereas when I work with people and help them when they get stuck or they want to, you know, they don't know how to move forward, and they're doing the same thing really, but on like maybe a lesser scale. They're blocking themselves, they're blocking their own happiness and moving forward from fear. It could be through it come out like through procrastination, or they want to, I don't know, eat healthy and take care of their body, but they're overeating and eating things, they're sabotaging themselves, eating things that are not good for their body, or maybe drinking too much and not exercising, or they're not writing that book that they want to write, and, you know, finding reasons not to do it. Yeah, so, and I think that sometimes when you go into the mind, you just kind of let the mind know that it's okay and it's safe to go out and do those things, and you clear out the underlying fear and belief system that's holding them back, then they can then go into the world and do it. And it sounds like OCD is like that in a much more exaggerated form, but more powerful and kind of deeper and sort of more entrenched, where it completely engulfs and overtakes some lives. It's— thank you for sharing that. It's like it creates a real kind of understanding of what it is. And I think we've all got our own things that hold us back, but maybe not to such an extent. I think we all have little bits of OCD, like we all have a little bit of anxiety, but I think it's when it starts to take over your day-to-day life in a negative way. Fear-based, isn't it? Very sort of fear-based protection. Yeah, myself, I need to do these things to feel safe. It's almost like— or to feel that everything else is safe. Some people think that something's going to happen to someone, something outside, or Yeah, um, no, the mind's a very powerful thing. It's not always a positive powerful thing either. Yeah, it runs the show. But yes, it does. Yeah, and we could just be in our hearts some more. Wonderful. Yeah, just love everybody and everything. It'll be a much nicer world. It would, wouldn't it? It'd be lovely. Maybe if women ruled the world, it would be like that. I wouldn't be surprised. If it's not going that way. Well, yeah, yes, yes, I think it was Buddha who said, "The Western woman will save the world." We will see. Oh, really? Yes, I love that quote. I'm like, "Yes, I'm a Western woman, I'm loving that quote." Oh, wow, oh, that's quite cool. I quite like that. It's nice, and I think it's quite nice because I think women are stepping up and in their power and having a voice now. You know, it wasn't so long ago we couldn't even vote or have bank accounts. I think it was only in the 1970s we could have bank— our own bank accounts. Accounts. So that, that sounds insane, um, thinking about that now, how, you know, how much we've grown and come forward. Well, in this, in our parts of the world anyway. Um, so I think, I don't know, maybe women are gonna— I think it's good that women stand up and shine and lead the way a little bit. Men are lovely, men, you know, we're not— not— oh, there's a lot of things that men can do, but there's probably more things that we can do that men can't do. Yes, wink wink, let's not tell them. Yeah, I'm sure we'll get into trouble on That could be quite an interesting debate, could it? Men versus women. But no, no, we won't go down that road because we all know who'd win. Wink wink. Right, we've got a little bit of time left, so I'd like to end up with— do you want to just share some stuff about your books, what's in them, where we can find them, where people can find you? If they want to work with you? Because that'd be really lovely, because I'm sure— okay, um, my books, Hope with Eating Disorders, Hope with Anxiety, Hope with Depression, and Hope with OCD, um, can— are they all on Amazon and the usual online bookstores, or, um, through my website, lynnequilly.com? Um, we The other thing that I haven't mentioned is that we also have a toy called the Trouble Muncher. And we have a free app. This is a family show, is that clean? He's called the Trouble Muncher. When Sam designed the app, which we have made ages ago, and he's a free app, it's a friendly— he looks a little bit like Boris Johnson, but he wasn't meant to. But he's, um, and he, he, we use a form of NLP. Yeah. So it's about, um, so they write their troubles down. This quirky little character, they write their troubles down and then he eats them all up. And there's a voice behind the Trouble Muncher that gobbles it up. And it's called, um, and it's about them letting their troubles go. So they're disengaging with their troubles. By writing them down, they're getting them out of their head. And then my husband got it into his head that we needed some toys, and the toys go hand in hand with the app. And there's pads, and they can write their troubles down in the pads, which go in the Trouble Muncher's backpack, and then the parents can find the troubles and read them. Well, that's wonderful. So this is— is this for children? Is it aimed at children? Children under primary school age. Which sadly, um, mental health issues are beginning to affect more and more. Really? Yeah. How would that be showing up? So for parents that would be— might maybe listening, or, um, how may that show up in case they might have got worries about their own kids? Um, I think the biggest advice I can give, if you think there's something wrong, then don't leave it. Um, a change in behavior is huge. They can become withdrawn, they can start talking more aggressively, they become anxious. But the changing behaviour is the biggest. So if you see a change in behaviour which isn't alike and akin to your child, I would say then don't be afraid to approach it, talk to them. In all my books, there's a whole chapter on how to talk to your child. The best way to do it. So I— the best of— because if, if there is something wrong, it will only get worse, it will get stronger, and then it is harder to treat. Yeah, I think, I think it's just really nice that you're helping people deal with it at that age, because historically, I guess, when people had mental health issues as children, we probably didn't know how to deal with it, and people taking that through into adulthood. Like my own biological— I was adopted, and my biological mother had mental health issues which wasn't dealt with, and postnatal depression, and, and I'm sure it all stemmed back to her childhood. And I think she was estranged from her own mother at about 14, 15 years of age, so I can only sort of imagine how far back it goes. And I think it was my, my grandmother had the same kind of thing. It wasn't dealt with, and, and they, they gave her Valium and all that kind of stuff, but to deal with postnatal depression and just kind of put her in an institution that didn't help her heal it. And then she eventually took her own life. Um, oh yeah, which I'd sort of, you know, go, you know, help her with that. And my older brother, who was my biological brother I met, he also— that had a knock-on effect of him. He ended up being a drug addict, in and out of prison. So he was actually in prison at the time that she took her own life, and I barely knew her. I'd met her a couple of times, so I was lucky enough to be adopted into a lovely family, but I think had she had the help that you're offering people's children now, then perhaps her life may have played out very differently. So when she became an adult, she wasn't carrying all that, and that wasn't running. Yes. Both were for so long. Yeah, she'd probably, you know, I think being able to disassociate yourself from whatever's going on in your head, which is like where the trouble muncher comes in for the, for the children, you know, whether it be on an app or by a toy which also can be bought on our website, then they're letting go of their troubles. Yeah. Also, they're alerting the other— their adults— to— some of them might not always want to tell them, but they'll write it down and let them see it. Yeah. And then they're not telling them directly. It's less confronting to write. Yeah. And then it gives the parent or carer time to digest whatever's on the piece of paper and then approach it. But don't, don't think, oh, I'll sort it out tomorrow, because tomorrow can be too late. That's really beautiful advice. Thank you. And I think that's a lovely note to end on as well. So that's a really powerful tool that Lynn has created and just shared with us, the app. And it's great to use with kids, and it's actually based on an NLP technique. I use a lot of this with my clients as and as Lynn does with hers. And I want to share with you a way that you can use it yourself at home as an adult. So if you've got kids, definitely get them on the app. That's fantastic. And I love the games and the toys that she's created around that. It makes it fun and play for a child, so they'll engage with it and do it. It's a great way for adults to do it as well. But there's a way that you can do it yourself at home if you've got blocks. It doesn't have to be with eating disorders or anxiety and deep mental health issues. You can use it in, um, in your life when you're just maybe procrastinating on taking action on something and there's something holding you back. It's quite a good way of sort of clearing out that part of your mind that's maybe afraid of you moving forward. And you might think, well, I'm not afraid, but it's generally fear that's holding people back. So if you've got a book that you've like not started writing yet, or a business that you want to set up, but there's something holding you back, not quite sure why, or maybe wanting to take care of your health and start that sort of healthy eating plan or exercise regime and you're not doing it, or you're wanting to get out there and meet someone and maybe have a relationship with someone, but you're holding yourself back, or you're kind of sabotaging relationships before they even get started. I know I've done all of these things, so I speak from experience. A really powerful way to sort of clear things out is to use the technique that Lynne's adopted into this app. And you can use it at home by writing a letter to yourself. With a pen and a piece of paper. You can do it in a journal, but you want, you want to rip the page out of the journal. So if you've got a nice journal, you don't want to destroy, maybe don't use that one. Um, so better with just a piece of paper, um, because you will be discarding it afterwards. And this is just for you to read. So really, um, know that you're in a safe space with yourself and you're going to write this out and just write a letter to that part of yourself that's afraid and, and is holding you back. And just know that it's not bad. It's not, you know, it doesn't have the intention of sabotaging you. It's actually trying to protect you. And just, um, be gentle with yourself on that part of yourself that's just afraid. Um, people, we procrastinate because we're actually afraid sometimes of success or afraid of failure. Um, maybe if you are, for example, take the example of writing a book, you're afraid to maybe bare your soul and open up and share that with the world and it not be received well. The same could be said for going into a relationship with someone. Maybe you'll be rejected and not loved. Or starting a new business, maybe it will, maybe it will fail, maybe it will succeed and become too overwhelming. Maybe you'll be rejected if you succeed because, you know, people around you judge people that do well and are successful. There's all kinds of reasons that we make things up, and all of these things can add to bringing anxiety into our lives because we're not really living in our heart and living our full potential. And I think when we don't live our full potential, that creates anxiety and dis-ease in the body. So one way to help shift that a little bit is to do this particular exercise I'll share with you now. Pen and piece of paper. There's something really powerful about when you write with a pen on the piece of paper. You get that kind of heart-mind connection rather than type into a computer. So actually write it in a pen and piece of paper. I want you to be able to pick up this piece of paper afterwards and hold it. So you're going to be letting it go from your mind, but you're also letting it go physically through touch, which sort of adds to it. The gravitas makes it more powerful as an exercise of you literally letting go and throwing something away, removing it from yourself and your life. So write a thank you note to that part of yourself. You can give it a name if you want. You can call it fear, procrastination. You can call it Bob. It doesn't matter. But what matters is that you call it something that means something to you. So, and just write and thank it. Thanks. Say thank you, fear. Thank you, procrastination, for protecting me and keeping me safe and keeping me inside and doing the washing when I should be sat at my desk typing out my book that, you know, I've been wanting to write or setting up my business or Making me clean the house instead of, you know, creating that website I've been trying to put out there, or making me say I've got to, I don't know, wash my hair so that I go out on a date, or making me eat more, you know, as a form of emotional protection and put weight on rather than feeling safe to be vulnerable and show who I am to the world, and stopping me, you know, moving forward in my health journey. Just thank it. Say, thank you. I know, um, I thank you, and I know that you were trying to keep me safe, um, and I know your intention was good, but I don't need to be protected now. I am safe. I'm powerful enough now to be out there and to do it. I know I can go out into the world and create the thing I want to create. I know I can be who I want to be. I know I can have the health I want to have. I know I can have the happiness I want to have, and I know I'm safe in doing that, right? Just pour your heart out, write everything in it, sign it at the bottom, and then you're going to throw it away. You can rip it up, you can set fire to it, you can throw it in the bin. It doesn't matter what you do. You can bury it in the garden, but you are literally going to discard it and throw it away. And in throwing it away, you're removing it from your life and your mind. And you can do that as many times as you want and need to. So that's a nice little technique just to help you let things go. And let me know on social media if that works for you, if you try it out and there's some shifts. They can happen immediately, they can happen and build over time. It'll be different for all of you. But thank you for listening. Thank you, Lynn, for coming on. You were an absolutely wonderful guest, and I'm sure everyone's absolutely loved listening to you. I know I have. I was okay. It's fantastic. Come back anytime. Thank you. I want to thank everyone for listening. So this was the Eat Love Do Show. I've been Janine Ebrew, your host. This is exclusive to Women's Radio Station. Again, do remember to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @WomensRadioStn, and do pop over to our YouTube channel and hit a like and a subscribe there because that really, really helps us. And keep coming back week after week and listening. This is the Eat Love Do Show because what you eat, how you love yourself and others, and what you do to take care of yourself on a daily basis matters. Lynn, you've been an absolute joy. Thank you, thank you for having me on. Pleasure. If anyone's got any questions, they can always email me through the website, so if anyone is worrying about anything. And that's lynncrilly.com. Yes. Yeah, perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day.