Escape

Foreign. Hello, I'm Patsy. And I'm Angie. And welcome back to the second in our weekly shows of open, where we're going to be continuing this week, telling you about our life journeys. So, Angie, where we got to at the end of last week's show was your hospitalisation for peritonitis. That's right, Patsy. And for the listeners that don't know what that is, it's basically a burst appendicitis. Yeah. So what was going on? What happened? Well, I had. I was diagnosed with peritonitis. I was rushed to hospital, I had to have an emergency operation to clear out my body cavity and I was kept in hospital for about six weeks because it was touch and go whether I. And in that time did your parents come to visit you? I think that was the first time I actually got undivided attention from my parents and I became the focus of their lives for the first time. And how did that feel? I didn't, I didn't have the emotional intelligence at that time to know what it felt like, but it did feel rather odd. All of a sudden they were just there and I was being played with and bought toys and things like that and it was so alien for me. Did it feel nice, though, for the, for that first time, to have their attention or to feel that you mattered? I was very guarded. I, you know, I'd be very timid is the word. You know, when you see a cat that's frightened, it doesn't know if you're going to stroke it or hit it. That's what I was like. Did that affect your relationship with your brother? Did he come and visit you? My brother became very, very jealous as sibling rivalry because he had all the attention focused on him for all that time and all of a sudden he was in the background. So he would act up and he would also create diversions, break things and blame me, bite me, pinch me. So even though you were getting this attention because you were, you could have died, he was still. Well, I don't think as he was a child also. So don't forget there was only two years difference. So he didn't realize what. Because the dynamic had changed so much from going the centre of attention to being ignored and I was the focus. So that was his way of trying to get attention. And so after you came out of hospital, did things continue like this? What? No, it just progressively as I got my strength up, I went back to the old ways. The only difference was that my mother was trying to make me strong, so she'd feed me and she'd make me, you know, give me lots of food and you need to be strong. That was her way of trying to give me nourishment. So I thought, well, if I eat, I'll be a good boy. And that was her words, oh, there's a good boy, you know, eat. And she'd, you know, give me attention. So she was in control that way. So as time was progressing, you were then entering puberty and sexual development. Well, that's one of the. One of the worst periods of my life, Patsy. Why? Because my mother obviously had my brother, who was two years older to me, and she always compared me to his development as a teenager. And, you know, she always just said, well, when your brother was your age, he was more developed than you are. So that was then. I was taken to the. To see the GP and, you know, tests were done and blah, blah, blah. And it transpired that I had very low testosterone level. So the prescribed action. I mean, people forget it's. Nowadays everyone talks about transgender and sexuality and gay and bi and all the rest of it. Back in those days, there wasn't a name for was. It was very black and white. There weren't the shades. We forget. I mean, it was 1967 when, you know, homosexuality was decriminalized. So that's. That is the landscape you were dealing with. So any that dealt with sexuality, hormones or gender identity was taboo. You was. It was like you that was seen as a mental illness. You were put in a mental home. So when your parents took you to the gp, what did they say? Well, the test came back, had low testosterone. So they gave me sustenance injections, which is testosterone, once a month, intra. Intramuscular injection. And that's when my nightmare of pronounced gender dysphoria appeared. Explain that. I don't. It's very difficult to explain. It's that. The only way I can say it to you is, you know, when you have a bad day, every person has a bad day when you try a dress on or you try and do your hair and it doesn't go right. But imagine having that every day. No matter what you did, you just. Every time you saw yourself in the mirror, everything you try, it just didn't. It just didn't work. You have felt dis at ease with yourself. You just felt. And then that caused frustration. And the last thing you want to do when you're in that emotional state is actually share yourself with anyone. You'd get really angry and hostile. And my mum actually says, you Went from an angelic child, who's very quiet and peaceful to this monster. And how was your body changing at that point? Well, I got really, really tall, I started to smell, I got, I got acne, I never have acne before and that just made it even worse is that I was. Who is this person looking back at me in the mirror? So really you were experiencing the things that your brother was going through naturally, but that had been forced on you and it was becoming more and more difficult to come to terms with who you are. So who did you turn to? What were the options? I felt really frustrated because I was young then. Obviously, as I said to you earlier, there was no such declassifications of gender identity issues then. So it was very hard as a child trying to convey that to a doctor, a family doctor, let alone my parents, who were desperately religious and Catholic. And it was like sex was never even discussed. So who, who could you turn to? Who did you turn to? I didn't. I realized that if I was going to be, be at peace with myself, I had to get out of that situation. Patsy and how were you going to do that? Well, I knew that, you know, I was old enough to know that money facilitated you to, gave you choices and options. So I used to do everything, I got paper round, I got a Saturday job, I'd offered to wash people's cars, I'd go and do gardening and also it got me out of the house, so it was a win, win for me. So what did you intend to do with this kind of, this money that you were earning? Were you going to. Well, I knew that if I wanted to go to London, because don't forget where I live, it was the end of the line, so I knew there was a, you know, a line there, so I'd go to the tube station, pay my ticket and don't forget, I was taller then, so nobody questioned. So you weren't going to school at this stage? Well, I was, you know, I was misunderstood and abused at school and the same at home. So I thought, well, where am I going to go? So I thought this isn't working for me. So I just, you know, I just went and nobody knew. So because you were tall and you looked older than you were, nobody questioned that you weren't at school and you'd go to London and then what would you do when you got to the centre of. I remember arriving at Oxford Circus and I remember walking up those stairs. I just loved it because it was so busy, it was so much going on it was like nobody even looked at me. For the first time in my life, I was not the center of somebody's attention and I felt really invisible and great and I could find and do things that I wanted to do and I didn't have to answer. And it was all so colorful and it was so bustly and all these. To me it represents like a breath of fresh air I could breathe. For the first time in my life, I wasn't frightened of anything. And where did you go? I went all over. I went to department stores, I go to the, you know, all of them in the high. In Oxford Street. Don't forget, Oxford street then wasn't what it is today. It was actually better. And then you had like lots of demonstrations in the, you know, in John Lewis. They'd have like demos about cookery shows or appliances or games. And I'd spend my whole life, I just. And time used to fly by. And then you discovered Soho. Indeed I did, by accident. And I was just. Because it. Don't forget, I used to think to myself, well, it's Friday night and everyone was going to, you know, they weren't going home and there was no rush hour. I said, why is everyone going? You know, normally during the week people used to get the train home, but it came Fridays and I realized, why is it so quiet, the train on a Friday? And it took me a while to figure out that people didn't go home. They'd go to drink or go to socialize. And then I'd think and I'd ask people. And then of course, one thing led to another and I stumbled across Soho and Soho in the 70s. I mean, it's a fairly sanitized version that we've got now, but Soho in the 70s, I mean, goodness, that must have. It was colourful. What was it like being in Soho as you in the 70s? Well, it was full of artists, drug dealers, prostitutes, you name it. It was all going off, you know, from lords and ladies to the, you know, the street urchin. And you just fitted in. Nobody asked any questions. Everyone was having a good time. It was free and easy. There was artists, don't forget, you had Francis Bacon, you had all those underground drinking clubs. I mean, it's world renowned Soho in that time. So we're going to find out what happened in Soho in your Soho life next week. Thank you, Angie. If you've got any questions or you want to talk about anything that you've heard us say in this first half, send us a tweet. WomensRadiostn or an email presentersomensradio.com WRS Women's Radio Station Voice of Women Worldwide Sarah's Universal Soul show what does your soul or spirituality mean to you? Welcome to future Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Welcome back. I'm Russ Cain. You're listening to In Conversation with On Women's Radio Station. I'm Angie. And I'm Patsy and we're open. To see what other programs we have on Women's Radio Station, head to our website womensradiostation.com hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org do you need mediation? We are the A Project charity. We provide convict resolution and community engagement services. Our services include community mediation for neighbour disputes, family mediation for separating couples, special education needs for parents, carers and their children, and young adults, as well as workplace mediation and restorative services. To find out more, head to womensradiostation.com or theaproject.co.uk women's radio station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. We aim to show the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and a platform for your voice. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Mirae B Ltd. We are a virtual PA consultancy. We provide remote administrative services. Our offering is diverse. We manage your calendar, we update your client database, we take care of your property in France and in London. We also offer bookkeeping and translation services. Would you like to know more? Please call 077-8684-8998 for further information. Mirabil Limited making the life of the business owner successful. Women's radio station is passionate about communication and we'd love any thoughts and feedback on our programs. Email presenters womensradiostation.com if there's a topic you'd like to hear about or want to contact your favourite presenter, do get in touch. WRS Women's Radio Station Voice of Women Worldwide I'm Isabelle Manavy, an executive coach. Do you want to change a negative into a positive? We can do this by coaching you to rewire your brain using simple visualization techniques. In 20 years of practice, I've seen this transform lives. For more information, look on Women's Radio website. Call me on 079-844-22171. I'm listening. Hi, I'm Vivian Arts, President of Women in Banking and Finance. Are you a woman working in the financial services sector in the uk? If you are not already a member, then you are missing out on a fantastic, fantastic network which has been inspiring women for 40 years. We are a not for profit organization empowering women to network, learn and inspire each other at every stage of their career. Through our highly sought after events, we aim to improve diversity by working closely with government leaders and firms through our UK branches. Find out more at www.wibf.org uk and join a network to transform your career. Hi, I'm Sandy Goddard, founder of the Room Upstairs. A different kind of business, Women's Network. Imagine a lunch or dinner party sitting next to great connections, people who might help you. You have fun, do business, build relationships, top women speakers, good food and no membership fees. That's not selling, that's connecting. Join me and economist Ruth Lee Seabee and have your say on Britain and Brexit. Find out more@theroomupstairs.co.uk Women's radio station is a not for profit community interest company. Supporting is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. And welcome back to Open. Now, continuing on, we're going to speak to Patsy. So, Patsy, carry on. Well, my parents returned. I think I got to the point last week where my parents had gone away. And where did they go? Paz? They went back to Pakistan and of course when they came back, I was a few years older and they had come back with a very reinforced idea of how I was to be brought up based on religion. So all the freedoms that I'd got used to whilst they'd been away with my adoptive mother, which meant staying after school, joining the gym club, joining the drama club, which I loved. She had wanted me to have ballet lessons and piano. All that went out of the window. So what religion was that, Patsy? They were Muslim. Ah. So how did that make you feel when you tried to conform to either or? Well, it just wasn't possible. It wasn't possible. And my adopted mum had to give way to their idea of what they wanted me to do, which being 9 or 10 was. The only thing that you did after school was religious study at the mosque. And what was that entailing? Well, that's where you would go after school. I would finish school at quarter to four and mosque would be between five and seven, and for five days a week, that was my life after school. So all the after school stuff that I'd been involved with, I could no longer be part of. Did you enjoy it at all, Patsy? No, I didn't. It was incredibly strict. I didn't really understand why I was there or the teachings. And if you didn't get it right, you would be either slapped across the face or you would be hit with a bunch of keys on a string and perhaps it was smashed down on the small of your back and it was excruciating. Did you tell anyone? I didn't feel that there was anybody I could tell. I didn't want to tell my parents because I didn't think they'd do anything. And I didn't want to tell my adopted mother because I knew that she would be incredibly upset and that she couldn't do anything. I didn't want to let her down. I didn't want to let any of them down. So, moving on now, perhaps, obviously you did that for a few years, I assume. Yes. And then obviously you started going through puberty. So what was that like? Oh, my goodness, it was brilliant. You've just. It's, it's. It's mad because you've just told us your story and how awful it was, and it was brilliant because as soon as you started having periods, it meant you couldn't go to the mosque because you were seen as unclean. And I suddenly realized that I could use periods to my advantage. Well, also, you're, you know, going through the puberty, because it's never straightforward. No, but it's. It seemed to be, you know, was worthwhile. Patsy, I hate you. So I, so then. Then discovered that if I could manufacture a period, because nobody was going to check whether you were really having one or not. So if there was a school play on or I. I went off to violin lessons, I'd say I was having a period, and I must have had the longest, most erratic periods of any child because, well, girls, that's the first. It was something that I could. I could use to sort of try and live the life that I wanted. Yeah, it did, in a way. Did you plan your escape or how. What was the end game? Well, I knew that like you, I was going to have to make a decision as to what path I was going to tread. And I knew also that I wouldn't be able to live the life that I wanted to live. And what was that life, Patsy? It was a life of creativity and freedom and being able to go out when I wanted and see people that I found interesting. So did you make any steps to achieve that? I knew that if I threw myself into my studies one day I would get to the point where I would apply to university. University and I would go. And I knew very early on that as soon as I went I wasn't ever going to come back. Well, it sounds to me like you've obviously had a game plan. Yes, I did. Because I like you knew when you got on that tube line to go to London, I got on the train from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston and that railway line represented freedom. Isn't it ironic how I always say it's the similarities that bind us? And the stories are so. So they're very similar and it's actually quite empowering and also reassuring. Well, you wouldn't have thought that our stories would be so similar because we're from such different backgrounds and life experiences. But I think for any woman out there, it is empowering if you think the life you want to live is the journey that you're going to tread. So for me, I've always found that whenever I've spoken to people, especially women, as I'm a so called construct of a woman, soon as I go into that relationship or that environment, it's amazing how women have always embraced me and opened up to me and I realized the similarities that we all share. And it's only through their stories reflecting my own to some degree. I actually felt included. But I think every woman goes through that, that there comes a point where you do have to decide which path you're going to tread. And the bravest of us always seem to choose the most difficult. For me, I found it really funny that you're. For you. But periods represented freedom and all that. The hormones for me represented freedom and for you they were just a horrible prison. Yeah, and darkness and everything else. So in a way it's actually quite a good. Just a position that we have. What's interesting, Patsy, I had to find my femininity and that meant me pushing on weight or fat, literally on my bum and on my hip, you know, my breasts and hips and everything. So you had to add fat to your body to find femininity. Which to most women is just one of the most horrific things they'll ever hear. Of course, for most women, you want to get rid of fat and you want to be toned. Why. Why is fat such a bad word? Well, I don't necessarily think it is a bad word. I think it, it's, it's a negative word, but it can have a positive effect. What do you mean by that? I mean, you know, if I went up to a woman and said, you're fat, she would be horrified and offended. Patsy. Okay, well, last thing last year when I came back from holiday, a friend turned around to me and said, oh, my God, you're so fat. And I just thought, oh, okay. I went home, tried on all my clothes, none of them fit me. And I thought, oh, my God, yes, I am fat. But Pat decided to think about it. You saw it as a negative. You saw it as being somebody was fat, shaming you and making you feel bad about yourself, and you did something about it. So that's my point. The point is, fat in our society, for women is the seen as a bad thing. I think for most women, it's something that they feel. But why? I don't get it. Because most women want something that they're not. If you're tall, you want to be shorter, because you want to be able to wear high heels. I'm short, I want to be taller. If you've got blonde hair, you want brown. If you've got brown hair, you want ginger. If you've got frizzy hair, you want it to be straight. We all want something that we haven't got. To me, that sounds very childish. There comes a point in one's life when one has to face the harsh reality of accepting that this is how you're made. Otherwise you'll spend your whole life fighting with yourself. Yes, I absolutely agree. But I also think that for lots of women, it takes them almost their whole life to embrace who they actually are. No, I'll tell you what I've heard dealing with women is they're constantly feeling not good enough and not being lovable enough. And that saddens me. And the only people making money out of that are the cosmetic companies and plastic surgeons. And they're only selling you a dream and a fantasy. It's not real. That's what needs to be discussed. I absolutely agree, but I also think that that journey starts when to take on your point. You start to actually embrace who you are and love yourself. Yeah, but this is my point. And until you do that, then you're always going to be relying on cosmetics or surgery to enhance who you are. Yeah, but Patsy, this is my point. When I said to you I had to find my femininity and I had to literally seek it and find it. Women are born with it and they've. They hate it and they're ashamed of it and they're trying to mutate themselves to be something that looks, you know, like a man. Tall, lean and mean. That's not feminine. But I think it, again, it goes back to having something that you haven't got. Well, Patsy, I mean, we all think the grass is greener. Well, I think we all aspire to be who we think we should be. Yes, exactly. And that's the reality. Patsy, thank you for joining us and sharing your story, but please join us next time when we get to the real juicy bit about sex. So if you've got any questions or you'd like to comment on anything that you've heard on this week's episode of Open, send us a tweet @WomensRadiostn or drop us an email at presentersomensradiostation.com thank you. Thank you. With over 35 presenters, we have something for everyone on Women's Radio Station. Welcome to women's radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. Hungry an average woman eats about 2 to 3 kilos of lipstick in her lifetime. Women's Radio Station, we want to hear from you. This is Women's Radio Station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism and my guest today is Karen Nunn. I listen to women's radio station, Women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Do you dream of a wedding on the beach or maybe in the middle of a vineyard? Imagine your wedding in Italy, the land of Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo. Getting married in Italy in a venue that is magical and has natural beauty. Amoretti Weddings creates unforgettable moments. What you had to do is just relax and watch us make your wedding a real fairy tale. Contact us now for a free consultation. Www.amoretti.co.uk do you experience skin irritation, unpleasant odor or feel insecure worrying about possible discover revolutionary and patented most absorbent 100% ECO certified genial day sanitary napkins with tourmaline strip. So thin, so powerful, so genial. Leave behind embarrassing rashes, annoying skin irritations, leaks with your old menstrual pad. Order your free trial@genially.com you can also find us at womensradiostation.com. Women's radio station is passionate about communication and we'd love any thoughts and feedback on our programs. Email presenterswomensradiostation.com if there's a topic you'd like to hear about or want to contact your favourite presenter, do get in touch. WRS women's radio station, Voice of Women Worldwide hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org Mirae B Ltd. We are a virtual PA consultancy. We provide remote administrative services. Our offering is diverse. We manage your calendar, we update your client database, we take care of your property in France and in London. We also offer bookkeeping and translation services. Would you like to know more? Please call 077-8684-8998 for further information. Mirae B Limited making the life of the business owner successful. I'm Isabelle Manevy, an executive coach. Do you want to change a negative into a positive? We can do this by coaching you to rewire your brain using simple visualization techniques. In 20 years of practice, I've seen this transform lives. For more information, look on Women's Radio website. Call me on 079-8442, 2171. I'm listening. Do you need mediation? We are the a project charity. We provide convict, resolution and community engagement services. Our services include community mediation for neighbour disputes, family mediation for separating couples, special education needs for parents, carers and their children and young adults, as well as workplace mediation and restorative services. To find out more, head to womensradiostation.com or theaproject.co.uk. I'm Angie. And I'm Patsy and we're open as a trans woman living in the centre of London in 2018. The show's about all the barriers I face on a daily level, but it's also about our life stories. How we got to where we are, how we stayed positive in the face of adversity and being more than just a label. It's about finding one's true, authentic self. But it's also about your stories too. So send it. Send us a tweet, send us an email at. Presentersomensradio the voice of Women Worldwide women's radio station is a not for profit, community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help.