Free Your Mind With LKJc – Captain Paul Ellis, Learning To Find Love Again

Hello and welcome to this week's Free Your Mind, Let's Talk About It with LKJ. Today I have a wonderful gentleman, um, coming onto our show, a gentleman that believes that men are from Mars, women are from Venus. So it should be an interesting hour as we free the mind of Captain Paul Ellis on this show, and to all the listeners, um, to see if men are in touch with women, or are we from different planets, or do men understand our own emotions and do we understand them. So I'm going to bring you in now and welcome Paul Ellis, Captain Paul Ellis. Good morning, Captain, how are you? I'm fine, thank you. Well, pleased to meet you, Lady Kendall-Jarratt. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. As I was doing the introduction and saying that you are a gentleman that lives his life journey on the ethos that men are from Mars, women are from Venus. May I ask what led you to take this approach to your journey? Why do you believe men are from Mars and women are from Venus, as in the book? As the book, my Mr. Green, I was given it during my, uh, dark time going through my divorce and my first wife, and I read it and I tried to understand where I'd possibly gone wrong in my marriage. Um, obviously I tried many ways of trying to recuperate it because I had two children that I dearly loved, and I really wanted my family model, which obviously I brought— being brought up with My family model was a wife with 2 children and a dog. So when you— we're starting to open up and we're looking at that, so you have yourself divorced. Are you still divorced? Obviously I've had a couple of partners since, but I'm still single is the word, living the bachelor life. Living the bachelor life, the bachelor dream. Is it a bachelor's dream, or are you still— now, having, um, read this book, may I ask how long it was ago that you got divorced, if it's not too personal? Quite a long while ago, pushing 30 years nearly now. So, um, I occasionally refer back to it, but I just use it occasionally in, in times of trauma with the opposite sex. I like to think that Mr. Green had something right in a lot of his mythology in his book. Okay, so for the listener, can you explain for people that haven't read the book, for instance, emphasize on on what it means. So for instance, if you— we go back to the instant, you know, when you said your marriage has broken down, um, and you were looking for answers to— was you to blame? Was there something you could have done? How could you save this marriage, etc.? Um, do you believe, you know, like for some of us women, you know, we We have an argument, which is a natural thing that we will do with our partners, spend as much time with your partners as you do at work and then sleep. You know, this is what happens. So for a woman— are you a man? Then you're saying, you know, would you walk away and reflect? Would you sulk? You know, we sometimes— when women say, you know, they just shut down and they don't want to hear it, they just go off and do that. So what— you use a different phrase. I'm sure you say you go into your cave and lick your wounds. That's correct, yeah. Um, mainly because, um, our natural behavior, obviously, um, prehistoric or whatever you want to call it, we were enhanced in that way of life where the man went out of the cave and off he went to hunt for the food, whether the woman stayed at home, uh, or should I say in the cave, and looked after the cave and was protected by the man. And, uh, the man came home after a grueling, uh, time trying to bring some food in, and obviously sometimes that food bit back. And he'd go into his cave and, um, he had his strategy of his, um, his hunts and all the other things. And he would, um, chat to the other huntsmen that see what a good game that was, and they brought home some food and they'd sit in the cave and they'd actually go and reflect on their own in their cave because they'd been wounded or whatever, and therefore— and that's where the The idea came from that if the woman started to try and go into his cave and brought him out too early, hadn't resolved the, um, the problem, or hadn't resolved why on earth he's received scars, and he wanted to plan and make sure that that didn't happen again for his family. And obviously the woman works in a different manner according to the book, whereas the woman would rather talk to the man about her day and gathering berries, etc., and resolve her problems of how she could find some more berries and this, that, and the other. So the mindset was that the, the man would be very upset by being dug out his cave until he'd finished his, um, resolve, whereas the woman had to talk to resolve hers. In other words, the man wouldn't actually resolve their problem, but they would, uh, in actual fact be helping by listening. And that's, that's one of the key, I felt, to the book. Yes, because having read the book myself, it, you know, it does emphasize on the bucket, you know, where you, you know, fill it up. Yeah, yeah, bucket of love. Can you explain, you know, to the listener your, uh, perception on The bucket of love. Well, obviously during, um, courtships and all the other things, that's, uh, we, we, we, we terminated, termed the, uh, the, the love bucket. And, uh, we, we— the more things we did, the, the more the woman's bucket fell up. The man bought some flowers and that filled the bucket up, and he talked to her nicely in the evening, that filled the bucket up. But sometimes, um, the bucket would get tipped over by, um, if he shouted at her, and sometimes the whole bucket would get emptied, or all of them, then you have to start all over again. Um, and that was the concept of, of the love bucket. Um, I don't know whether the man had such a big bucket, but, um, I did remember that part of the book where it said that the love bucket was being filled. Yeah, so basically it still comes down, whether it's a book or not, it's about balance. Balance in the relationship. Um, yeah, I'm not, I'm not an expert on it, and I only gathered from that particular book, but obviously I probably read a few other books and probably got intermingled and took my own view from those different books, etc. Um, during my traumatic times in, in one or two events where— see, I actually went to a psychiatrist as well, which helped me on other issues, but I probably blended those in with, with all the other issues of trying to free my mind, as it were. Would you say to the listeners, male or— if you are having problems in yourself, so you're saying, you know, you read this book after you divorced, do you wish you'd read this book or had the understanding to understand the woman's mind, which you were saying didn't quite understand? Am I correct in saying that? Um, I often reflected on that, but I think people meet on the grounds that they are who they are, and rather than develop something that they're not, I just felt, um, that in the long run, uh, we met because of the fact that we fell in love eventually, um, and, um, that was the, uh, the way it was going, and The things that change are we all grow up, you know, young child— childhood love is not the same as teenage love, isn't the same as adult love, isn't the same as elderly love. So obviously, as things change, you've got to try and adapt. And obviously, my particular adaptation didn't happen at the right time, or whatever, or it wasn't meant to be. So, um, honestly, at the time, um, I, I tried to recuperate what my losses were because I knew I would never ever have that again, um, the same marriage to the same person that I had my two children to. So that's— that was my goal, to keep my family together. So now that that has been resolved in my mind, I've moved ahead and had to move ahead, obviously. Yes, but it's still a scar. And as you know, um, with mental health and having seen a psychologist is we have triggers. You know, you'll know when you married, you know the date you got divorced, you know when these issues— and they're always there. Even if you've divorced, do you still remember those days? Or, um, I do, I do occasionally and reflect occasionally, but not anything like I used to do. If I remember rightly, it took me a good 15 years to really get over my divorce, but it might have been because Um, I had a lot of trouble with my children and initially seeing my children. And of course I had to move to, um, 300 miles away because of my job to move ahead, um, and keep my living going. So obviously I played maintenance, etc., but I didn't see my children at one stage for nearly 3, 3 and a half years. So, um, until my daughter turned up on my doorstep when she was 12. So that's where I lie at the moment, and I'm just trying to, um, still be a father to my children, uh, and obviously a good grandfather. Oh, grandpa! Congratulations that you are a grandfather. Do you have many grandchildren? Um, I hope you weren't going to ask that, but, um, I've got, um 11 grandchildren and one due next month, so I've done quite well on the grandchildren front. So we have, um, the continuing from that love, there is the positive side that's come out that from the love that you had with your wife and the two children, that you had this happy marriage, um, uh, you know, at that time which you believed, you know, you had your two children your house, you had a good job, your wife, um, did your wife work? Yes, yeah, a very good job. And, uh, believe it or not, um, within 6 weeks of both my children being born, uh, she was back to work. Um, I seem to remember a very large bill every month for childminding, but that was the way forward. She wanted to remain in a career. Obviously I wasn't going to leave the sea, so that's the way we went. I mean, it was heartbreaking at times watching my two children go to the childminder even though I was at home, but we had to keep the routine going. So I used to pick my children up from the childminders during the week while my wife went to work. So it was quite strange really because I was on my own in my own home while I was on leave. But that's the way it was. Right, okay. So, well, I just want to— now we'll come back to the divorce. I just want to clarify because we're setting up the character that you are very strong, very open, and I'm very sorry to hear that you were divorced. But I look at the positivity side and think, you know, 30 years apart, you haven't remarried. But you've gone, you've seen a counsellor, you've tried to tackle it, and you still have the love of your 2 children and 11 grandchildren, soon to be 12. And I hear that's a— is that a Yorkshire accent? Yes, I'm from Yorkshire, and unfortunately I haven't lost my accent, and in my job it does hold me back a little bit because they tend to call it a bit of a thickie accent down south. So I have to occasionally try and put my airs and graces to try and hide a little bit of my accent, but I don't hide it for my colleagues because I am what I am. Exactly, and we should always remain who we are. And that was, you know, as we started off the show saying, you know, you took yourself into the cave you know, you'd lick your wounds, you would address what the problem was to then come out, whether it took you 2 days, you know, which could be seen as sulking or taking it or not wanting to understand, to come out and say, right, I've licked my wounds, I'm coming out, let's deal with this. And then obviously, you know, if your partner wasn't happy with it, then you'd go back and then the cycle begins until you do open up and talk to each other, which is important for to see both sides and sort and get that balance, you know, in life and in for this perfect roles in your head. So this is your strength in the person who said, you know, about love is very different, um, in, you know, from teenage love, you know, first loves, loves that you have in your life, and opening your heart, uh, up to take that in. So, but it comes, you know, as a Yorkshireman, you know, very strong grounding rules, you know, bringing up, as you were brought up. Again, I always ask, you know, was you private education to go to mainstream education? I went to a boys' grammar school. I don't know that was a good thing or a bad thing because I always felt I missed out not having girls at school. But yeah, it was a very highly thought of school and it's now a full comprehensive with boys and girls there. I must say, why do you feel that by going to the grammar school that you missed out by not having girls in the school? Was it harder as a teenager to find first love or to understand that? Well, It's a natural life progression, isn't it? And to me, it was a bit strange not having girls in the class, but I suppose the grammar school thought that an all-boys school was less of a distraction. But I don't know whether that's good or bad, because obviously when you go out into the wild world, you aren't as covert as you need to be with girls and women because you haven't actually watched them at school, which is a part of the learning process and the social learning process. Right, so yes, completely, because, you know, it's education first coming on, and obviously as a captain going to the grammar school, you obviously had very good schooling, you know, you concentrated by not having these distractions that, you know, that can be seen by some, or is it? It's a debate that could go on forever when we're talking about structure and private, whatever. It's down to the person and where you come from, from your roots. So obviously, you know, for yourself, Was there just you in your family? It was your mum and dad and you? No, no, I had a brother, younger brother, 3 years younger than me, and my parents were divorced just before my final exams of my first officer of the watch ticket. So it's quite a shock at that time because obviously exams times were pretty bad and my parents divorced just then. Um, my father, um, the reason for the divorce mainly was because of a pregnancy of my stepsister. So I've got a stepsister that obviously I dearly love, and, um, I actually lived with my father while I was away at sea on leave for about 5 years, and it was more like a, a daughter to me. The my sister growing up, but, you know, I still have a very fond love for my sister. So when we're looking at you and you're saying, you know, obviously your parents divorced, but so we're looking from when you was born to 16, 17, that it was before you, you, um, did you go into the Merchant Navy, the Navy, or You know, can you express? Believe it or not, my father was a great sportsman, and I played cricket and as many sports as possible. I had a very large backing with my grandparents as well. I did suffer from hay fever, which playing cricket was quite bad, but also later life I suddenly realized that I didn't do as well in exams as I should have done, and other people did. And I sort of just want— they realized that during my exams I had hay fever and there was, uh, I had eyes streaming. I remember my mother, um, taking me to the doctor and trying to get rid of this hay fever, but I didn't do as well as I thought I should have done in the exams. But my parents had me down for a professional cricketer, and I was doing very, very well. I played for Yorkshire Schoolboys and went for a trial for England Schoolboys cricket. So my plan was to play for England at cricket and go around the world. And then my father came to me with— to the hospital once when I broke my finger. I was a spin bowler and a batter. And he said— he looked at me and he said, I don't think you're going to be able to spin that ball or become a professional cricketer. So my first reaction was obviously, what the heck am I going to do? And then my father pointed to a Merchant Navy deck officer that I could see the world via that way instead of going around playing cricket. So that's exactly how the road started to go away to sea. Which is great to see that although you were faced with your dream of being a cricketer squashed at that point because of injury and going there, and obviously we don't have the technology or that, you know, and the assistance, if that's how you put it, you know, when people get injured now, you know, a lot of these injuries can be fixed better. But back then, um, it wasn't as easy, was it? No, no. And they said I would never be able to bend my finger again, but, uh, I can now— I've now got full usage and I can actually still spin the ball. But obviously I'm a little bit old now to start playing professional cricket or anything like that, but I do watch it. And, you know, but I don't watch it too much because it hurts, you know. But that pain, because you want— when you see England playing, it's still there that you wish you'd taken that? Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, you had the encouragement of your father to say, let's, you know, your dream is to want to go around the world, so So you joined the Merchant Navy. Why did you join the Merchant Navy rather than the Royal Navy? I think it was more because of my father's— I think he saw one of his friend's son go to be a deck officer with P&O, I think it was, and I just followed along with it. I took my exams, I started to do A-levels, and I needed A-levels for a Royal Navy officer, and I only needed 5 O-levels for a Merchant Navy officer under the age of 18. After the age of 18, I needed A-levels. So I thought, well, I'll have a go. And I went for the interview and went to Liverpool, and I came back with a contract and a uniform. And told to wait at home for my first ship. That was at 17 years old. 17, wow. So you've embarked on this journey and being a sailor all your life, you've always been a sailor, you didn't break or go back to the sea, you know, I mean, because obviously as you said about divorce, you know, did it not cross your mind at that point to leave the sea and try and rebuild it, or your passion, like you said, you still hurts when you don't hear, and when it— sorry, when you see the, um, cricket, that it hurts. That— did you not think that perhaps by leaving the sea it may have saved your marriage? Um, I don't think for one minute it would have saved my marriage at all, no. Um, Having said that, one of the words was she did want me to leave the CMB at home more often, but I subsequently found that she was already with partner before this actually occurred. So luckily I didn't leave the seat, but I've never regretted going where to see. But I did take a lot longer to get to captain than I thought I would. And, um, there were stages where I thought I'm not going to make it, and that would have been a heck of a disappointment because obviously having failed at cricket and then, um, the ultimate goal, uh, in an officer's career is to get to captain. And then luckily that break happened and I managed to make it. And I was proud for my parents more than anything else, because they, they were the ones that encouraged me and were the first people to welcome me home, you know, and the people that I thought of while I was away and wrote letters to. In the old days, I mean, obviously we didn't have phones and things in those days, but Eventually we had phones later in, in my seagoing career, but I left the deep sea, what we call deep sea, in 1990. So I became a week on, week off, stroke 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off style officer subsequently after, after being deep sea. Gone. So regarding the, um, you were saying about writing letters, etc. So at that time, when we're going back when your divorce failed, obviously we didn't have the communication that you had. So that itself, when we're looking at this whole thing, you would go off, was it for about 5 months at a time? Yes, I, uh, On average, my first— when I first got married, I actually went away to sea with my wife, and for 2 and a half years we traveled virtually around the world. Me, as obviously as a second officer, and her on board just being a wife. I mean, her biggest job was to clean the bar and serve the officers in the evening, if I remember rightly. And then she had a terrible job of sunbathing by the pool and planning what she was going to have for the next meal. I seem to remember she wrote— she read a book a week when we were at sea, if I remember right. Yeah. Did it— do you think, obviously, where you had 2 and a half years at sea, your wife's at sea, this is obviously pre-children, was it very much like we have on the cruise ships now? Did it just feel like you were always on holiday? Was you in a fantasy world of life was just different countries every day with your wife, going out. So the reality of living on a ship, obviously when you was younger before meeting your wife, there was just you, you have the camaraderie with the, um, your other colleagues on board. So it's very, very close network. You can't fall out on a ship because no, no, like when people fall out at work, they go home or they on a ship for 5 months, there must be a lot of control there mentally. Well, because most of people go to sea when they're young and they're inducted into the, into the job when they're young, it's part and parcel of seamen living together that the fact is that if you fall out with somebody, uh, you might be falling out there for 3 to 4 months. So, um, it's always best, um, to learn how to live with somebody and not, um, what's the word, burn your bridges with them. Um, you have to mentally adjust yourself to sort of like put up with the consequences of somebody annoying you and, um, and Be forthright. I think a lot of the time on the— a seaman will, will point out your errors of your ways and they will gang up on you. Um, and obviously, uh, on board a ship, um, nothing goes secret. Everybody talks about everybody else, and you've got to realize that, that, uh, and people gang up on you, um, to, to bring you into line, you know. And then you've got to seriously look at yourself and think think, right, I need to get on board the ship to do my job and to relax, you know. So inwardly, you, you, you have to learn to be as unobnoxious with other people, even though you don't like them, as possible. There's a lot of mental pressure that is put on your heads when you're living in confined environment, but obviously health safety measures, everything, passengers all come to the forefront because obviously you can't have things that go wrong. And when you are living on the, you know, do they offer, when you're deep sea, you know, we see all these cruises that will be starting up again and have been, and people coming back on ships after COVID, extra restrictions, etc., coming going on there now and rules that they have to abide by. And it's not always the dream boat that you think. It's work and you have to work. But when at home you finish work, you go home, you can go off and do that. Your relaxation is you have the bar, but you're not allowed to drink, are you, now on ferries or cruise ships? No, no, no, no. Um, the, the rank system, um, to a certain extent is, um, the leading factor in, in most of the social aspects of an onboard ship. The, um, when I was a junior officer, obviously I respected the ranks, etc., and as you move up the ranks, you learn your place like a pack of dogs of who's the alpha male and who's the the, the, the lower males, etc., and who's the, um, the hunters and the gatherers and what have you. So of course the captain is sort of like the, uh, the, the god, um, uh, what he says goes. He's the ultimate, he's the judge, the jury, the executioner, and is also a, um, um, the psychologist, the housewife, the, the home husband, the whatever you want to call it, and the hygienist and safety. There's so many aspects to the Master's job that you learn through as you go through the job, the, the ranks, that each and every one of those subjects is being responsible for by the Master. And the Master, the book stops there And you're trained to have that responsibility, but as you're a junior officer and you're coming through the ranks, you sometimes wonder how on earth I'm going to ever cope with all that responsibility, and will I be able to cope? But the training and all the aspects of— part of our training is to be ready for the incidents and the psychological side of living on board ship, as well as the incidents that could turn into catastrophes, to prevent them. And reporting of accidents also gives us learning opportunities. So the whole sphere of the ship is just a mobile hotel with a strong chance of drowning. Wow. So when we Like, for instance, emotional pressure when people go home is when, you know, they say 5 months, you come off that ship, you then go back home to your family, so you have that time to relax. And obviously any pressures you have at home you have to deal with, because if you come back onto that ship and there is an accident, obviously, as you're aware, they have to look at you. You know, when the plane went down on the Hudson Hudson River, for instance. I don't want to bring into a ship catastrophe on that. I'm just saying, I'm just putting in a different perspective because in that, if you're captains and something goes on, you actually are looked at how you was, how you was the day before. Is there any trouble at home? Have you any debt? Have you— it's, you know, you have a lot of mental pressure outside of work. On the ship, going home, if you come back and you're not mentally fit, I suppose, because you have to be medically fit in physical side. But is there any medical tests they do to ensure you're like that, or is it just your officers would notice? Or do you— are there, you know, people that are constantly watching? Are you under Are you always under scrutiny? We have a very strict medical ENG1 certificate, it's called, annually, especially the captain's arm because of pilotage duties, etc. We also have to report all medication to the master, believe it or not, and we have to take into account that medication and whether or not he needs to go to HR, occupational health, etc. When anybody suspected of being under the weather or not performing duties, we put them on a particular caution— cautionary measures— and monitor them. And we have a system that can pick this out. We also have what we call compassionate leave. I'm actually on compassionate leave because my mother died a few weeks ago, and I've obviously been to the funeral, etc. But the company have very kindly given me time off for the mourning period, and that is full paid, and it's compassionate leave. Other, other areas are sick leave, and we have quite a good sick pay, and we can be up to 3 months sick, obviously under doctor's certification. But we have a very in-depth health system that is monitored throughout. As far as mental conditions, our doctors will pick that up anyway. So they will not give an ENG one if they're suspected, because the ENG ones are issued by the MCA, and they have very strict guidelines to prevent any issues like that. Well, firstly, let me offer my condolences on the passing of your mother, which is difficult, but it highlights from the company that you work for that safety is paramount. And, you know, your health and well-being on board is dealt with so that when passengers, etc., come on, are kept to. And like yourself having this time off so that you are given time to assess and do it, the same as you had with your divorce 30 years ago and still addressing that and going on with those issues. And it is difficult. And do you find being male, you know, if to open up, is this prevented you in a relationship? Do you find it that you're, after reading the book and with everything going on and loss, grief, he said, are you finding it easier to talk? Because you've been talking very openly on the show, and I must say it's lovely to hear, because sometimes it's very hard to crack them, because they have to have this tough exterior, that through your own life journey and lessons and the job that you do as a captain you know, it's not just all going to the captain's table for dinner, etc., that, you know, there is the reality of everything on there, and your staff's well-being is paramount as well. But for yourself in your private life, it was very organized doing that. So when you come off, you know, do you have a— you know, when I've spoken to some people, I spoke to some, an MC It's very important when people come off that you are allowed time to just come home, relax, and wind down. So that which you perceive is going into your cave and relaxing down is to adjust to the civilian life, I suppose. Be like the army people, because you are at sea, you're coming back, You need a few days where you can relax. Your mind has to adjust to the different circumstances it's in because you can't allow the mental pressure to overwhelm. If you do, it's talking and freeing your mind like you're doing today and opening up. Do you believe you are, as I believe, you are a person now rather than Men are from Mars, women from Venus, having spoken to you and look at it, he says, when we actually break down, we start freeing Captain Paul Ellis's mind is that you have a lot of empathy about you and sincerity. But, you know, you may get it wrong in understanding, because we will always have that difference in female and male. That do we fully understand, but it's about the balance and getting the balance there. And when you have that, it's important, but you know, it's also very important to learn to live again. You know, like you said, you haven't remarried or anything like that, but you're saying that you don't think you could ever get that again. But you should never say never. You know, look at that glass. I thought, have you just resigned to think that's just my children and grandchildren? Or, you know, there are— let me, for instance, in, uh, may I ask how old you are, Captain Paul? Um, 65. 65. So you still got life at your feet, energetic, working, going you're going to have charisma about you. The problem that we hear many times is where you've had that, obviously, in what you do for your job and going to work and trying to then come off, relax down, and then, you know, keeping up and doing your sport, because I see that you like table tennis as well. Yeah, I can have a play, um, I haven't played much for COVID, etc., but yeah, I enjoy my sport. But getting back to the empathy side of it, I learned that my mother had died whilst I was on the ship, and I found that my brother told me on the phone, and I immediately realized that it was a trauma situation. And I decided to stay on board, um, because in my mind there's no difference between my mother being alive and my mother being passed away while I'm doing my job. She was always in my heart, and she was, I feel, um, no different So I stayed on board the ship for 5 days and my crew found out and the head chef came to me after 4 days and said, Captain, we're so sorry about your mother and we are so pleased that you're stopping on board. With the people that love you as well. Excuse me. No, that's fine. So therefore, I stayed on board and got off the ship, and then I went to take my compassionate leave. So obviously emotions are coming back to me now. So I felt that I was safer and emotionally more stable when I was doing my job, and that's how I coped with the first 2 weeks. Okay, right. So when you're on there and you have this— um, I apologize, uh, That was my dog, just somebody at the door. Apologize to the listeners. As much as you can try in life to keep recordings and obviously working from home, etc., recording your time. So my apologies for that. Unfortunately, you know, we still work, we still go on with everything on there, but Recapping on that, you could hear your emotion throughout that, that, you know, you were on board. You have the control that you have to mentally block stuff out. This is work, and once you can't have those pressures on there, work first, strength, even losing your mum, it's because through your life you've been so trained. Your own, for your mother, would have known, like your brother and everything, don't— when you're at work on the ship, you don't get disturbed, etc. Because, um, you, you're there and you, you've got your team, you've got your crew, you've got the camaraderie of everyone that particular— get through this. You would have already been assessed by people around you 'Can he do this? Can— can— are you safe to sail the ship? Are you this, on that?' And on— but you've got so used to blocking things, and that with your mother's passing, so I'm going to sail this ship, I'm going to finish what I'm doing, correct? You would know if there was an incident that— or anything— that you would have been put at the forefront because your mental health, if something had gone wrong, so you physically, you had to have a mental health check yourself, say, are you fit for this? Which you passed, you was on there. And then obviously it's also a bit like Pandora's box, isn't it? You know, we keep that there. I think, dare I open that? I'm going to break, you know, because your emotions come out like your divorce. You put it away, you've locked it away. You're doing it. So even in death, it shows the power and control of your mindset. I'm going to block this out and go across. It's very much, you know, blinkered in a way that, you know, nothing can come into that. Then you have the situation where you then came off board ship. You've left that crew. Everything done meticulously. You've come off and then you have to go home, wind down, and then face reality. And obviously, you know, with the company Work Culture, you know, believe in the strengths and believe in their employees and are very supportive, um, and to give you this compassionate leave and to that so that you can deal with funerals, with all the emotional side of grief that will affect you. And, you know, it's not just when the funeral finishes. This you'll find is the hardest part. And as a grief counsellor myself, in going through it, is that, you know, it does go on the character as well of who you are, how you will grieve. You know, that was what we, you know, I would look at somebody's personality and think, this is going to be tougher for them. But being quite strong, I'm not going to say your journey is going to be any easier, But, and we all grieve in our own way, and there's no wrong way and there's no right way, but it's what's right for you to help you mentally to get through that, that with your time of reflection. And I did see, you know, um, before that you are in France at the moment, um, and because that was a place that your mother loved very much when you came up, that was, um, so, you know, to bring To recap memories. Yeah, yeah, yes. I've actually, um, sat at the table where we had chips and been to the restaurant that we went for her 80th birthday, um, party with my brother. And I've actually pulled those photographs up now. It's my brother. So how old was your mum when she passed, may I ask? 87. 87. Bless her. Bless her. Probably a wonderful, you know, the memories that you've had and the strength and legacy she's left to your family. And yeah, and we do all have a legacy, we all have love and everything on there. So, and she has left do that. And obviously, you know, she divorced from your father. Did she find love again? Yes, yes. Alan did the first eulogy at the funeral, and he called us stepsons, my brother and I, and we actually called him stepfather some 5 years ago. And he came to me And he said he was very proud for me to say that, that I was his stepfather. And yes, we went all around France together. That's lovely to hear because some people have— I think they don't believe that that person is their father, that, you know, to go on, but they are. And, you know, they take this role like you as a grandfather, that, you know, children should and their grandchildren, as we do, should be to your granddad. You are now the head, you know, that's the respect that we're taught, you know, through that, that we have our grandchildren. So they call you grandma, granddad, nan, grandy, whatever. It's important that for them that they know, you know, that they don't call you by your Christian name, that you are a granddad, and that's my father. It's the natural family expression. I know we all have pet names and etc. We're going through that. So one of my questions is for you, you know, you're going through this emotional— it's having time. What you're doing is the right thing, you know, walk along that beach, eat the chips, Let the tears flow, because when you let the tears flow, as you're probably a very intelligent gentleman to know that, you will release endorphins and that will help. You know, sometimes we've had a good cry, we feel a little bit better. The pain and the grief is still there, but we have to let it out, otherwise it'll eat away at you. Remember the, the love and the teachers that they've had, which you are doing and you're reflecting. And this is time of reflection and it's time for quiet time, which you're doing to, to deal with those emotions. And having dealt with trauma before, which you dealt with a very, very— it sounds like it was a severe blow of trauma when your marriage broke down. You tried everything to save that. But unfortunately, while she was away thinking, I can try and put this— is it my job? And I do believe you changed from deep sea and then came in to do week on, week off, so you was home, but there was another person involved, and that route had already been mapped out, and there was nothing you could do about that. You then had all the emotional upheaval of trying to fight to see your children, as well as trying to work away. And then you've got— but, you know, look positively now. And I hope, as you know, you've come on to the show and freeing your mind and talking about it, that these scars will remain. Okay, they've been cut very, very deep, so they will remain a scar because, you know, it is a affected you, but you've healed them over. The thing is, you know, when we have the triggers, when we're taken back to those times, is that you know when that day is coming. Don't try and avoid it, you know, just find that quiet moment and try, if you can, to relax your mind down. You know it's going to come, and let, let the tears flow, you know. It was something, but remember The happy times. I mean, your love for your wife that you had was wonderful. You know, you had this time sailing around the sea, you know, having that, which is fantastic. But reality for the children, then going to work, wanting to do that. But for some, for her, she wanted you to be there. But obviously for yourself, with the sea giving that lifestyle You had the pressure because to live that lifestyle you had to earn the money. The only way you're going to earn that money was to go abroad. So you have to get the balance in, and if the scales of balance don't balance, unfortunately, as you know with the love bucket, things go. Yeah. The thing being now is 30 years, you're single, you want to Do you think, you know, when we're looking at this now, that, you know, a 65-year-old man, there's so much of this dating.com, match.com, you know, you can sign yourself up to that. Do you feel it's much harder? You mean because at work you don't tend to mix? I can't imagine that, but that you would mix as a captain with somebody on partnership. But there again, we have doctors and nurses that do, and there probably are people that married to each other because you're of the same mindset. So that's how it works. Um, but for yourself, you haven't done that. Um, so you're in a world now, you know, we've lost someone, so you, you know, um, life is very short and you're here for a short time, and enjoyment, and you have the grandchildren but you have to live as well. Captain Paul Ellis has a heart and a very strong emotional one that needs to be loved, needs to be accepted, you know, for the kindness and love. Like you said, when you express yourself as the person, you need to bring the flowers out, trying to— I get from the you know, this freeing of your mind, that you are somebody who will try to the very end. Yes. You'll open up and then you will go back if you've seen it not right, or then you will try and assess, how do I get this back? What can I do to get this back? You know, things are busy in life, people going off and everything like that, and it's difficult. Do you think It's easy, you know, because we see a lot of people now doing Match.com, meeting on the internet, but that, you know, from the old times when you met your wife, you know, did you meet her in a bar, for instance, or something like that? You know, when we do meet our partners, do you think it's harder now to find love? My friends all seem to go on these dating sites etc. And I did try it, but I got bored, I must admit, of chatting away to somebody I didn't really— and I never made the final plunge of going to meet anybody. So I intend to probably meet somebody, but I'm not counting on my chickens on it. I want to just keep my health watch my grandchildren grow up and hopefully my children have a happy life. So at the moment I get a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction out of being a master because that is my family at sea at the moment, and that's where I make sure that everybody's safe and sound and enjoying being under my command, as it were, because it's a wonderful feeling when your crew actually say, 'I'm glad you're our captain,' and I do like to hear that, and it has been said to me a few times. So therefore it gives me more strength to bring up the young officers, and obviously discipline is part and parcel of the job, and obviously direct people in the right direction that I feel are not going the right direction. But also live by my own rules. Yeah, yeah. But, and obviously, you know, as you have that control on the ship and you do at home with the love of your children and everything like that, like you're saying— excuse me— um, that with their love and their support, they come first, and they have to come first. They— the same time, you know, you may be faced where they won't accept the person that you may come, but if they love you truly, they should accept that person, because if they love their father, they will love them. And it's difficult because you're in control of your own life, and obviously with going on the sites, it's a little bit different for you, obviously with work like that, but time will tell. And time gone there because you freed your mind, you know, there'll be many listeners on here that, you know, we could do, if you remember, I think it was "Secrets in Seattle." You may never know, Captain, there may be bags and bags of letters coming through to write a "Meet Me at the Eiffel Tower" or something. You could be the new movie, the up-to-date on that, to go in there. But the thing is for yourself is being mentally fit, mentally happy. Yeah, yeah. Love has a funny way of finding its way, you know, whichever course we choose, whichever way we look at it. If your fate is there to say you will find somebody, you, you will find that once your mind is open and ready for acceptance and doing that, and you're happy to do it. And time, as you say, your work has, you know, had a lot of emotional scars, etc., from the divorce. You've also grieving at the moment, but, and, you know, fighting to see your children over time. So you've been encased all in this, and sometimes just, you know, live with the blinkers on to see So when these people on the match, not really for you because you are obviously still old school, as I would call it, that would walk in the bar, see the young lady, chat, and say, hey, you know, we're going on. You're still old-fashioned in your way because it— but in that same way, being old-fashioned, like you would probably remind me of a gentleman that would open the door, you'd buy the roses, you'd pay for the dinner. You believe in that right way, then this going Dutch, etc., like that. So it will find you, it will find you, um, because when you have a heart that, you know, has been broken and has healing to do, and it's healed, although— and I do believe your heart is healed, um, except, you know, you've got trauma of your mom, which we're doing, but you're very strong-minded, and but having empathy, which you have, and your natural ability to even— it shows through your captainship with people, you know. It will happen. It will happen if somebody loves you that much, and there may be somebody that does and doesn't know how to approach the subject, or, or probably frightened to, or or there may be issues, but to be loved in your life is one of the most amazing feelings you've had, and you've had that. Yes, and it didn't go according to plan, but you still have love. You've got all those wonderful grandchildren, etc., there. You have opened up and come on to this show to show It's not shameful to open up and say, I'm a real human being, this is what it is. You know, you are going through the grief process of losing your mum. But for myself, I hope that love finds its way to you and that somebody out there has you in their heart. And when they have you in their heart, no matter what life throws at them, they will keep keep you close and they will protect you. They will think of you and you will get the balance of the scales absolutely correct. So on that point, Captain, um, I'm afraid that's the end of our show. Be lovely to bring you back on the show at one point today if you have found love. But from me to our listeners, I'd like to thank Captain Paul Ellis for coming on the show and freeing his mind with LKJ. Thank you so much, Captain. Thank you.