Get Booked – Ben Aldridge, How To Be Comfortable With Being Uncomfortable

Hi, I'm Hazel, and you can listen to my show Get Booked every day of the week at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we will talk about what I've read, what I'm reading, new releases, chat to authors, bloggers, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all based around supporting women's and men's emotional well-being, opening discussions and offering support by the incredible writing community out there. So come and join us, get involved. And if you want to catch up on previous shows, you can do at womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked, or just have a little bit of a look around. And today joining us in the remote studio, obviously, is Ben Aldridge, the author of How to Be Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable: 43 Weird and Wonderful Ways to Build a Strong, Resilient Mindset. Hi, Ben. Hi, Hazel. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm really excited to be here. So excited to talk about all the different challenges that you've come up with and just what must have been going through your head to come up with some of these challenges. Some of them are quite bonkers, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, they certainly are. There's a real mix in there, so I like to think it's quite a practical book. Some of the challenges are really difficult, some of them are quite easy, and some of them are just bizarre and ridiculous, but that's kind of the point, really. Well, yeah, because sometimes being ridiculous is about putting you out of your comfort zone, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And really, the kind of— the whole book is all about how leaving our comfort zones can help us to build mental strength, and it's very practical. I do encourage readers to try and do this, and this essentially has been my method of I guess, self-improvement and how I've been dealing with severe and debilitating anxiety. And this, this approach has completely changed my life and it's been an amazing experience. And that's, yeah, that's what I write about. I'm really happy to be sharing that experience with people. If you, if you want to explain to our listeners a little bit why this whole concept came about, it was something quite specific, wasn't it? And you decided to tackle it head on. Yeah, so basically, a few years ago, seemingly out of the blue, I was hit with severe and debilitating anxiety. And I didn't know anything about mental health. I was so ill-educated, and I just— it was terrifying. I didn't know what was happening. And so really, you know, I went to the doctor, and the doctor kind of instantly recognized it as anxiety. And I couldn't believe that my mind could do something like this. So I spent a lot of time reading about mental health and reading about philosophy and basically searching for ideas that I could use to help me deal with this anxiety. And I came across a group of thinkers called the Stoics. So these were philosophers from ancient Greece and Rome, and they had this really amazing method for building resilience and like basically dealing with difficulties. And they would deliberately push themselves out of their comfort zones in loads of different ways. So the Stoics, they would expose themselves to the cold, to the heat, they would sleep on the floor, they would fast, they would do all of these things which are essentially challenges. And this would be a platform for them to practice all of these ideas, all of their philosophy, and ultimately the more you do this, the more resilient you become. And I kind of really resonated with that idea. I loved it. So I kind of started doing that in the hope that it would change my relationship with my anxiety. And to cut a very long story short, it completely did. It was amazing. So that's, that's what I've been doing with the past couple of years, just throwing myself out of my comfort zone as much as possible in as many different ways as possible, inspired by these Stoics. You see, I'm a firm believer in productivity breeds productivity, and a lot of what people are struggling with at the moment while we're in quarantine or self-isolating, social distancing, is that we're not— we're sitting around and, you know, half the time we can't be bothered getting changed for 2 or 3 days. I mean, I did get an email from one of my jobs saying, you know, give you 48 hours notice before you're back off furlough. I'm gonna need a few weeks notice to kind of figure out how to get up on time to do this and to do that and to learn to brush my hair again in the morning. But likewise, I've been using— kind of, I've worked my way through. A lot of them I'd already done, some I've while in lockdown. Some of them are impossible, I mean, I can't do the mountain climbing and whatnot while we're in lockdown, but I mean, didn't you climb your steps or something 2,137 times or whatever, which is the equivalent of climbing Everest? That is bang on, yeah, absolutely. I think the thing is, what's happening recently with lockdown, obviously we have to think slightly differently about how we create challenges. And it's quite interesting, a restriction can allow us to be creative. And I've obviously been doing a lot of bizarre and difficult and challenging things. And then suddenly you can't do everything how— in the same way that you used to be able to. So I came up with various things that I could do while still at home during lockdown that would still be difficult and challenging. And keep me, you know, pushing myself out of my comfort zone. So yeah, I decided to climb Mount Everest on my stairs, which is quite a bizarre challenge, but I've only got— so I have to go— yeah, you're right, hundreds. I had to go up and down the stairs 2,137 times to make the height of Everest. So it was a fun experience. Yeah, I mean, you've got to have— you've got to be quite motivated, haven't you? I mean, I did— there was a couple of them I looked at and just thought, well, you know, they're things that I don't want to do. But you do actually say find your own challenges that kind of work towards your personality. And also, I mean, I don't have a fixed— but there are certain items in your list that I just— I'm not motivated to do those because time restrictions and they're not to my personality, but I mean, I've done at least 20 of them. Amazing. That's brilliant. That's just because either by accident or just because of things that I've done in the past. I mean, I, I, people are not wanting to spend money at the moment as well because we're living in slightly uncertain times. I did one of the challenges by accident the other day. Um, the one where it said basically make one of your workouts exceptionally harder. Okay. And I went out paddleboarding with my son, which is the epitome of social distancing because, you know, we're right in the middle of the river. And we've been out for about an hour or two. My dog always comes with us. She kind of jumps in between the paddleboard as to who she wants to sit with. And there was a little bit of wind and we were going back upstream and my son suddenly went, "I'm exhausted, I can't do this anymore." So he attached the dog lead to the back of my paddleboard and I ended up paddling myself and him with the dog in it all the way back home. So I made, you know, quite a hard exercise a lot harder. Amazing. I was like, tick! Yeah, that's nice. That's good. I think some of them you accidentally end up completing, or some people will have done a lot of them already. But it's just finding challenges that are individual to us as well. And these are just the examples. In my book, I write about the things that I've done, but I really try and encourage people to create their own challenges and to find things that are going to push them, because we're all different and we're all tested by different things. So we need to kind of explore that, and that's what I really try and encourage people to do, to think about how they can leave their comfort zone. Because for me, for instance, I hate needles. Well, I hated— that's past tense, right? I used to hate needles. The thought of it freaked me out. So one of the challenges is to go and get acupuncture, because you're staring a fear in the face, and actually you get a huge amount of confidence off the back of doing things like this. And so I went and I had acupuncture, and that was— I mean, at first it was very, very challenging, but I got used to it the more I went. And yeah, that really helped me to deal with that fear of needles. But of course, some people will have no problem with needles at all, so that challenge doesn't really have the same weight for certain people. So it's all about figuring out how we can individually challenge ourselves, I guess. Well, yes, I mean Ticking off as I worked my way through, I was going, right, done the public speaking, and I do outside broadcast quite a lot. I try many different sports. I love heights. I mean, it would be a challenge for me, the idea of going to a city with a ridiculously high building or a building to jump off and not doing it is alien to me, you know. If I ever do a charity, then it's normally to do with heights. I absolutely love it, and I really struggled to and come up with ideas of things, but then I thought they don't have to be physically challenging, it's the mentally challenging elements of how you can push yourself out of your comfort zone. I mean, even just— we're all spending so much money at the moment because we're stuck indoors, I'm thinking, challenge me being able to spend for a couple of days, that'd be a real challenge. And breaking habits as well as building habits that, you know, are challenges. And but there's a few of them that I did try the 7-minute cold shower the other day. Sorry, say that again, I just missed the last, the last section of that. I did, I did actually try the cold shower the other day. Oh, amazing, amazing! How was it? I was surprised how much my breath was taken away. I was like, it's a cold shower, I've had cold showers before, you know, you go on holiday somewhere and you have a quick shower to kind of cool yourself down. It is different in your own home when you're just sitting there, and I was like, oh, my breath is actually gone! I didn't manage— Did you wash your hair? But I washed my hair afterwards and kept it on. It was like a neutral temperature, and it actually did my hair the world of good. I need to warm myself up to that, Ben, I've got to be honest. Well, that's hard. That is quite brutal at first, but you do get used to it over time. I kind of do that every day now. That's part of my daily ritual, to have a cold shower in the morning. This is a very Stoic challenge. And yeah, as I said before, the Stoics used to practice cold exposure. And yeah, it's brilliant because your mind really doesn't want you to get into that shower. It's that feeling of resistance, that mental resistance. It's quite fun to play with. I say fun, but it's quite interesting to play with it. And it can teach us a lot. So that's why I believe the cold is good for us. And then you can take it further, and you know, I've done ice baths and been swimming in frozen lakes in Finland and whatnot. So I'm one of those annoying people who now has to go wild swimming whenever I'm near the water. Oh, I see. I do love wild swimming. There's a place quite close to me, and I have done a triathlon. Again, it's a challenge. Some of the mums in the school playground said, "Let's do a triathlon." I said, "That sounds like a horrific idea. Why would you do that?" And 3 of them said yes, and I can't be the one that says no. And if I'm ever, you know, if someone challenges me to do something, I can't resist a challenge. And so I ended up having to do a triathlon, which meant I had to learn to do wild swimming. But there's— wild swimming is fantastic. You're just— why would you want to swim in a pool when you can be surrounded by just the beautiful landscape and what goes on? It's absolutely fantastic. But you don't know this until you try it. Yeah, exactly, and it's very invigorating as well. I think winter swimming as well, that's something which a lot of people will be put off by the discomfort of it, but that's exactly the point. You know, winter swimming can be incredible. I mean, the British Sea is brutally cold in winter, but that's, uh, you know, that's the point. There's something quite nice about that, just kind of pushing yourself. I've been swimming in, like, all over the place, but I just remember, I think in one January I was having a swim just on the south coast somewhere, and just the people walking along the coast, they're just looking at you like you're absolutely nuts. I did actually, I haven't been in when it's been ridiculously cold, but I was sitting there on the beach in Brighton and it was something like January or February, I was just there with my dog, and someone just kind of got down, took off their clothes, they had a costume on, not even a dry suit or anything, swam, they swam out about 100 meters, swam back again, and then just put their clothes on and walked off. And I was like, nice. So in awe of you, Paddy. You know, yeah, it's nice, it's good. But I do need— I mean, what I have also been doing, some of these challenges, because I've done quite a few of them and I'm struggling to come up with my own ones, I was getting my kids to do them. So, you know, I do yoga and meditation and Metathons and things like that. So when it comes to homeschooling the kids and doing PE and things like that, I've been getting them to do some of the challenges themselves, and they're suddenly going, 'Oh, wait a minute, these are the exercises you make me do when I'm sore from football.' It's like, well, that's, you know, the joy of yoga when you actually learn it. And it's a— there's lots of different ways you can in this book. And also, it's just, again, it is challenging the mindset. Putting you out of your comfort zone can never be a bad thing. It just makes you stronger and stronger, which many of us do need. But it's making that decision to want to do it, that's the stumbling block, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I mean, for me, it was the direct response to experiencing severe anxiety. And this, this was, as I said, this was my method for dealing with it, inspired by the Stoics. And I think it's, yeah, you need that reason, you kind of, but you do pick up momentum when you started doing a couple and you've seen things getting ticked off your list, then it does pick up momentum. And it's amazing how quickly you can end up getting through a lot of challenges and then suddenly Over time, your life will just change the more you do this. It's kind of bringing adventure into your life as well and living more adventurously, which I think is a nice concept. Yeah, completely. I mean, some of the ones that I was most interested in— I mean, I've actually turned around to my children and I said, right, we're going to sit around at a table and we're going to all learn to whistle. And I don't mean, you know, the whistle where You know the one where you describe where you put your middle fingers in your mouth and it's a proper wolf whistle that can be heard from miles away. And I've said that we're all going to sit there and the first one to achieve it gets a tenner to spend on Amazon. But they're just things that we can do with our family, but it's like fasting. And as soon as we're out of quarantine, I want to do the Skid Pan Challenge. Yeah, oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, that was amazing, amazing experience actually. Going and learning how to control a skid on a skid pan is an amazingly valuable skill, I think. And I personally think it should be part of the driving test because it's so easy when you start feeling your car sliding out from under you to not know how to deal with that. And actually spending some time working with that, learning how to skid, by the end of the session, I It's amazing what you can do with a car. And it's just these little things. I was really nervous before I did that, actually, which is another great thing to practice. Practice being nervous and then dealing with that. And then realizing that you had no reason to be nervous. It was just part of the experience. And actually, that's quite good practicing that as well. So there's a lot going on with it. But yeah, I honestly recommend the skid pan. It's a great experience, really, really fun. Which was your favorite, the one challenge that made you go, wow, king of the world, I feel fantastic, I have knocked that out of the park? I think the first time I ever completed a marathon, that really was a special moment because I had very self-limiting beliefs before, and again, this project has helped me to kind of change that. And yeah, just actually completing the first marathon I'd ever done was a brilliant point in time because I put in a lot of work and I didn't actually think I'd be able to do it at first. And, you know, I trained for months and then you cross the finish line and it was just a— that was, yeah, a huge moment. And actually that gave me a boost in confidence and really encouraged me to do more and get into more challenges. And it just kind of didn't stop. And it's very much now part of my life. It's kind of like a lifestyle. I always try and find different ways to push myself. Me too, yeah. I mean, I think there's certain things— eating bugs, that's not gonna happen for me. I mean, I'm a vegetarian anyway, but did you suddenly get a taste for eating bugs? I think you can buy crickets from Amazon. Is it something that's in your diet now? Well, do you know what, it's more about just trying different things. It's like, there's, you know, this— it doesn't matter what your diet is. Say you can be vegan and you can still get involved in this challenge. The challenge is eat something unfamiliar or something that you think is going to be disgusting. And that, you know, for different people, that's obviously going to be different things. I like to give one of my friends at school, he came around to our house and he refused to eat the peas because they were too small. So for someone like that, eating small peas would be a big deal. So we're all different, right? We all have different things that we find disgusting. And, you know, it kind of works for all diets. And the food I talk about a lot is durian, which is vegan-friendly actually, so everyone can give it a go. And this is— I don't know, have you had durian before? I haven't, but weirdly, as soon as you mentioned that, doesn't it smell like basically somebody's died? It smells horrific. It's It's banned in public places. It's a fruit from Southeast Asia and not allowed to eat it in public places. You can't take it on airplanes, you can't take it into hotel lobbies. It's so offensive, the smell. So that kind of gives you an insight as to what it's probably going to taste like. And for me, it was probably the worst thing I've ever eaten. It's so disgusting. That's a good thing. You know, you can practice what your mind does when you eat something disgusting and that kind of mind over matter. It's just a small thing, just trying something, but I believe that even the small things, these ideas compound. The more you do them, they all just kind of stack up in different areas. So yeah, there's lots of ways you can do that food-based challenge. That's quite fun, actually. Yeah, I mean, I need to find a different way to do it, but being a vegetarian, there are different things that I want to do, but the idea of eating something like the durian, it's not gonna go down well with me. But weirdly, as soon as I read that section of the book, they mentioned it on The Simpsons, and I was like, "Oh, I know what that is!" And my kids were like, "Mum, do you know what that is?" I was like, "Yeah, yeah, it's disgusting though." But it's interesting. But the thing is, if anybody is listening is saying, "Well, you know what, we can't do marathons, we can't do this, we can't do that," maybe they have different limits doing things in their life that means that they possibly don't have the time to do the training to do these bits and bobs. You know, the 7-minute shower takes 7 minutes. One's learning to complete the Rubik's Cube, and the weirdest one, which I am determined to complete, is learning to say the longest village name in Wales. The longest— yeah, the station name in in North Wales. Which bizarrely, and I was quite a little bit of all about me, St. Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazel near to the rapid whirlpool and the church of the St. Cilio of the red cave. That is basically what the name means. And I was like, oh look, the white hazel. That's a great challenge. It's quite hard. My Welsh accent is pretty bad, but I can give it a go. It's "Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogero Gwyndrobwch Llantisiliogogo." So you've probably got a few people from Wales listening to that going, "Oh my God, what has he done? He's destroyed it." But that's my attempt at saying it. It's the longest train station name on the planet. And yeah, it's a brilliant word. And if you go there, you'll see the sign is actually almost the size of the platform. It's just this massive word. Yeah, that's a smaller one. That's it. Yeah, there's lots of things like that that are just quite quirky. I kind of like that one. That was fun. And also showing that challenges can be found in smaller places. You know, there's smaller challenges. You can just kind of slide them into pockets of time in your day and you can slowly accumulate them. So they don't have to be massive. Some of them are— the difficulty ranges. So we have very quick challenges and then some which are very epic and they take a long time. And it's having this balance because obviously, like, I was doing these whilst working, so I couldn't commit to too many epic challenges. So some of them were smaller and you can kind of punctuate the week and months with the smaller ones, and then you've got more kind of continuous epic ones which are kind of bigger achievements, I guess, and It's that balance as well that's quite interesting. So I was playing around with that commitment level, and obviously everyone's going to be different and respond to this in different ways. And, you know, it's just finding things that push us individually. So this is my kind of unique combination of challenges. So I think it's interesting to see which ones resonate with different people. Well, interestingly, we're all queuing at the moment for the likes of all the supermarkets and whatnot, because I mean, the queues are getting better, but when it first kicked off, the queues— I think it was Sainsbury's that I went to, and the queue was about 200 meters long, and it went all the way around the car park. And I'd already seen on various WhatsApp chats that they were quite long, and I knew it was possibly going to be half an hour, but I just took a book with me, and I was absolutely fine. Fine with it, but the idea of queuing for that half an hour and getting to the front and then walking away, why do we have to walk away as part of that challenge? Well, that's another bizarre one. That's to deal with frustration, and it's the kind of— if there's no reward to the queuing, you're not validating what you're doing, there's no purpose to it, which that instantly makes it pointless activity. And it's how do you deal with that level of frustration and this kind of, you know, self-inflicted kind of situation. So I think that's about cultivating patience and just looking at things differently. It's obviously— that's quite, you know, for me as well, that's a really tough one. I sit in traffic all the time and it used to be a massive problem. Like driving on the M25, which is probably the worst road in the country, getting stuck in rush hour. And yeah, that kind of— the thought of deliberately queuing without a reason is just, yeah, a bit bonkers. So I kind of like that, playing with that resistance. I had a lot of resistance to that challenge and that idea, like, why would you do that? So that was, yeah, something to play around with. Which I think has been kind of interesting. You see, I'm a big fan of multitasking and, you know, finding motivation behind what we do. And I used to hate traffic jams, being stuck on the tube and the trains being delayed and whatnot. Now I always make sure I've got an audiobook or a book with me or something that is on my on my iPad that I can read, because then it's not wasted time. And 3 days a week— well, 2 days a week I travel on public transport in and around London, 3 days a week it's in the car, and I always make sure I've got an audiobook, or, you know, speak to my mum that, you know, need to keep in touch with and whatnot. And it's just— I have to make sure that there is something else that I can be doing. But, you know, in the same way that you She said one of the challenges is learn a different language. Well, do you want to start going to see somebody in a different country? Is there a particular country that you love? You know, there's lots of different ways to find the motivation behind why we would do certain challenges. And one big question that I have for you is why were there 43 challenges? Did you start with 50 and you ran out of time? Was 43 a particular one for you? So basically, this whole thing that I've done, so many challenges, that the 43 I think represent the most varied challenges that I completed. So this is just a real mix of probably my favorite ones that I've done. So that's why they made— that's how they made it into the book. And there's no actual significance to the number 43. It's just that these happen to be my absolute favorite ones and just sort of, it felt like the right size and the right amount and it just allowed me to go into enough detail for each challenge. But yeah, there's been loads and there's been tons more that I've completed since writing the book. But these are just a nice cross-section and a kind of, the purpose is to get people thinking as well. So that's why I've tried to vary them as much as possible. So yeah, the 43 is Yeah, that's the reason. And in this book, I mean, you talk a lot about the fixed mindset and the open mindset and how to possibly, you know, if people do have a fixed mindset, you can actually change that. And you talk about the methodology. And what I do find very helpful for people that want to try these challenges or not necessarily come up with their own challenges is that you put a level of, you know, a number against the level of how hard it is, how long it takes to achieve, and you kind of explain what it is, how to do it, the resources to use to get it done, and then a little bit of a metaphor of what you learned at the end of it, which I think some people could look at a certain challenge and say, "Ah, that's not really for me," and then read about what you learned and go, 'That is what I need to learn though, and this is the way to learn it.' It's not always the challenge, it's what you learn from that particular mind-changing mindset, if you see what I mean. And I think it was an interesting way that you put the challenges together and very helpful. Did you enjoy the whole psychology around the different challenges? Yeah, absolutely. I loved, I loved getting into that and really The whole purpose of the challenges is for me to practice all of these ideas and concepts that I've been reading about. So ultimately this whole project has been to help me deal with anxiety. And the way that I've been doing that is by reading about ideas and concepts that I can use to help me, and then going out and testing these ideas with various challenges. And the challenges are there as a platform, really. So it's almost, you know, you want to do as many different things as possible and use the structure and ideas that you've been reading about as your way of dealing with the difficulty. So I've loved that side, exploring the psychology and exploring the kind of different ideas and seeing which ones work for me. Obviously everyone's different, so people will end up creating their own systems that they lean into when they face difficulty. But if you don't have a system, if you don't have ideas, to lean on when things get difficult. And this is not just when you're challenging yourself. I think generally in life, if you have something that you can lean into and you've got ideas that are helpful, then they're going to really guide you through difficulty and adversity. So these challenges have allowed me to practice all of these ideas. So the psychology has been so important, and these ideas are ultimately what's changed my life. The challenges are just a kind of way to practice these ideas, I guess. And that's what very much what the Stoics used to do as well. Interestingly, actually, that ties in quite nicely with them. So one of the tasks is to read a technical book, and I'd already done that because I kind of fell in love with psychology. So I started reading about cognitive psychology, and that was incredibly technical, but I had to stop all the way through after, you know, you read a couple of pages and you need to actually digest it. And the psychology around how, what we do and how our brain works, I just find absolutely thrilling, which is why I did absolutely love this book. I think it's brilliant. It's not out yet, it's due to be released at the beginning of June, isn't it? Yes, it's coming out June 9th. So I am Yeah, I can't wait for it to come out. And whereabouts are people going to be able to get hold of this book? So the book is going to be— you can get it on Amazon, you can get it online, most bookshops will have their online platform, so you can get it from there, and in bookshops when they open as well. And there'll be an Audible version as well, audiobook. Really? Are you going to be narrating it? I'm not, no. But I've met the actor and he's really, really looking forward to recording it. And actually, he sent me a funny email. He was like, "I'm a little bit apprehensive about Challenge 10," which is the station name which I was telling you about earlier. Because it's like getting that, the pronunciation of that station name correct. So that's going to be fun. I can't wait. I haven't heard it yet, but I can't wait to hear it. You see, I still haven't mastered that challenge yet and I really want to do it. I'm sitting there, the YouTube video of how to learn it phonetically is still in my to-do list. I want to do it. I want to get on. That is one of the ones that's really high up on there. It's nice. And then when you speak to someone from Wales, you can just use it and they can tell you how terrible your accent is, or they can tell you that it's, you know, that's great, good job. So that's kind of fun, actually. I think it's quite nice. There's quite a few of them that are fun. I mean, the Rubik's Cube, that one I definitely want to learn. And I do have actually on my list of challenges today, because especially while we're in lockdown, I have so many challenges in a day, a bit like a to-do list, but you know, it's just certain things that invigorate my mind a little bit rather than just sitting there and watching 82 episodes of whatever on Netflix. But I've got skipping on there and now I can skip, but I want to learn how to skip like Anthony Joshua. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, skip like a boxer. It's a nice— yeah, that's a good one. That's a good challenge. I think it's amazing, some of the tricks and stuff. And it's, you know, you could spend a lot of time getting into it. And some of these things are quite— some of them are quite difficult and will actually take a bit of time. But you, at the same time, you can just get a taste of it and get a flavor for it because it's actually, you know, being a beginner is, there's a lot of value in that. I think when you first start learning something in that honeymoon period, it's all very exciting and actually you're learning a lot. The learning curve when you first start doing something is massive and you can gain so many lessons and you don't necessarily have to follow through with it and commit to it for years and years to gain value from it. And you don't even have to be very good be good at any of these things to gain value from them. So that's, uh, I think that's important to remember. Well, that's the thing, you learn along the way. You need to sometimes see beyond the actual, you know, description of the challenge. A bit like when I was saying with, um, yeah, for my son while I'm homeschooling him, and he's like, I can't do this yoga, Mum, and I don't understand why I'm doing this, and I just can't get the pose right. And I was like, look, it's about learning the mentality a bit more. And then as he was working his way through, and he suddenly realized there were certain moves that he'd moved into that were helping out with other sports injuries. And I was like, but darling, it's not about the 3 moves at this side, you know, you've got to do the whole process because it's about flow. And he, he kind of learned during the process of doing the 20-minute yoga exercise exercise a little bit more once he'd done a bit that was more relevant to him, but you can't just pick and choose certain minute areas of a particular challenge. You've got to do the whole thing to fully benefit. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I think so. I think it's that cross-section of things that allow us to grow, really. And throughout a lot of your challenges, you give the breeder books to read that can help you with how to get your head around some of the challenges and why? And when you were researching and you came across a fantastic book, say, you know, with the water soloing or climbing mountains or, you know, whatever there is out there. So you read quite a lot of books, I assume? Oh yeah, absolutely. I think you are what you consume, so I consume a lot of books and I like, I really spend, that's an important thing for me. And to explore that. And ultimately, that's— reading is what completely changed my life. That's what really helped me to get out of a dark place. So yeah, that's why I credit that. So yeah, I do spend a lot of time reading. Do you know, it's interesting that you say that. I mean, one of the reasons I started GetBooked is because my head was in a particular pattern. But it not only helps you, it distracts you, it helps you learn, as I was saying before. Productivity breeds productivity, but sometimes if you need to, if you have certain anxieties, the distraction of reading a book and retraining your brain to focus on something else, or learning about somebody else's life, being entertained, learning empathy, which is what happens with reading books, you know, it's, and what I have found as well, especially during quarantine, is I was never a huge fan of audiobooks. I didn't listen to them as much, but now, you know, just having somebody chatting to you while you're in lockdown is— I quite like it. And it's your terms as well. It's not just watching Coronation Street at the same time as everybody else is, or on Catch-Up. It feels a bit more intimate, and there is so much value other than just reading about a thriller, and what books— it's— there's something out there for absolutely everybody. And so, I mean, yeah, big reader as well, but do you have a particular book that if someone said to you, I like reading, but if I had to read a book, tell me the one book I should read, what would you recommend? Oh, that's a very difficult question to put it down to one book. I think for me— I'll give you a couple if you want. Okay, well, I think Mindset by Carol Dweck is amazing. I write about this concept as well, and this has really helped me to kind of reframe the way that I think about a lot of things. So that's an absolutely incredible book. I love that. Another one I really enjoy is The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday. This is more based on Stoicism and how we can use that in modern life. So I really enjoyed that one. And then another book I really, really loved is "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway" by Susan Jeffers. Oh, well, that's a very popular one, isn't it? Yeah, it's brilliant. And that's— yeah, but there's so many, there's too many to list, I think. But it's those 3 certainly left a huge impression on me, I think. Brilliant. And is there a particular public figure out there that you just think is smashing it out the park in terms of, you know, a positive mindset? Yeah, there's so many amazing public figures. I think it's hard for me to say, again, to sort of say one person in particular. I'm trying to think off the top of my head. I think, I mean, the first person that came into my mind when you said that was Ant Middleton from SAS: Who Dares Wins. Right, yeah. I've read his books and I think he's a very interesting character and I think he's become extremely popular, but the message that he's putting out is extremely positive. And I really like that. He talks a lot about mindset and I think it's interesting and I do like that. I think he's a positive role model for lots of people. There's the wonderful algorithms on Amazon and iBooks and Google Books and whatnot, they keep on suggesting Ant Middleton to me and he's written a few books books, hasn't he? Yes, he has. Is there one that you think I should start with? I think The Fear Bubble is his most recent book, and that's very good. That's kind of— his first one was very much from the SAS days, which I think— the second one is about him climbing Mount Everest, and it's about how we can deal with fear and use that in a constructive way. So I personally recommend that one. I think that's a good— that's a very kind of like self-help adventure book. I think that's, that's really good. That's very— I really enjoyed that one. Okay, and I'm gonna give that one a go actually, because I think that's gonna be my next audiobook, because I quite fancy him kind of talking to me about it as well. There's something about when you get somebody like him actually narrating it and talking at you, it kind of, it encompasses you a little bit more, if you know what I Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's nice. It's a nice experience. I've started using— listening to audiobooks, actually, quite a lot. And I tend to do it when I'm on the move, when I'm walking. It's really nice when I'm running. And that's— yeah, it's nice to be able to do two things at once. Because obviously you can't read and run and do all these other things, or drive. So it's a great way of consuming good content. That's the thing. I am such a multitasker. One of the people that I interviewed for this show recently, because, you know, a runaround, single mum, two kids, they like their sport, they're doing this, that, whatever, we've got cats, dogs, and various jobs, and work at various stations, and here, there, and wherever, and in London there's always a million and one things to do. And I was explaining, she said, "Well, how do you even get a chance to read all these books for your shows?" I was like, "Well, you know, my sons," football training, there is a gym that overlooks his football pitch, so I quite often do my workout looking at that, watching him as often as I can, but also reading a book at the same time. So I'll have an audiobook in my ear, I'll be on the exercise bike, and I will be watching him playing football. I'm like, you know, 3 things at once, and I am happy as Larry. Nice. Yeah, well, it does work well for that. I think the audiobooks are great for doing that. There's nothing quite like just being able to sit down and actually read a book and hold it. There's something very nice about that. The other day I got my advanced copy of my book, and that was an amazing moment to actually hold something that's taken years to create. That was lovely, just actually being able to hold it. There's something about that which is quite special. Yeah, well, so I had to— I've read your book in PDF format because obviously it's only just coming into print and getting ready for the release, but one thing that I've really missed in terms of, as you say, holding a book, there's something about it. I mean, I do vary between audiobooks, Kindle, and a physical book because I kind of crave all three. Just sitting in a café with a book, your phone and your iPad are away, and there's people buzzing around you, and I adore that. And that is one of the things I miss with quarantine. I mean, so many people are talking about various things, but, you know, sitting in a bar or a café reading a book on my own is one of my— I'm a bit of a loner at heart, maybe. You just need to recreate that in your house then. You need to get some background noise. I'm sure you can get like an audio sample of like being in a cafe, you know, make some coffee and kind of try and simulate the environment at home. It's completely impossible because when I do that— sorry, I've got a dry throat— my cat's meowing at the door saying, "Let me in, let me in!" The dog's going, "I want to sit on you!" And the kids are complaining that they're dying of starvation because of not eating for 3 minutes. Okay, so that's impossible then. So you're ready for the café, do you reckon? Oh yeah, completely. But it is— the thing is, when you are at home, especially if you've got a busy household, it's very hard to suddenly not hear the dishwasher go off and you want to go and empty it, or, you know, the washing machine stopped, or there's something happening that, you know, that you can— if you're isolated and you're you're away from the home, then you can just carry on with the one task. And it's, it's, it's, it's a mindset, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yes. What I want to try and get from you, because you've read all these books, you know, the likes of Mindset and The Obstacle Is the Way, do you have any 3 tips for our listeners for changing our mindset? Just in reference to just everything, or just, uh, in reference to like dealing with anxiety, or just kind of cultivating a positive mindset? Positive mindset, but it can relate to anything because we all have different challenges, but we, we still need to change our mindset to, to address the plethora of challenges that we will all have. Okay, so I think the The most important thing is, personally, this is what's helped me. I think that whenever we fail or whenever something goes wrong, there is a lesson there. And it's very easy to initially see that as a negative, to see that as, ah, this is a disaster. But if we start to look for the lesson in absolutely everything, this really reframes everything that we experience. So something positive Obviously that's great, that's brilliant, but there are lessons hidden within that and we can learn a lot if we pay attention to it. And I think the same can be done for negative events and negative experiences. If we are willing to look at the lessons that we can learn from that, then nothing can be a negative if you think about it like that. You can experience something negative, but you can still grow from it, so that in a way is a positive. So everything that happens to to you is helping you to grow. And if you start thinking about things in that way, I think that's really constructive because we all face negativity and we all face failures and disasters. So if we can start to look at them in a constructive way, then I think that's really important for growing and moving forward and actually dealing with difficult things in a positive way. So that's probably the first thing that I would say. One of my main pictures that I love in my house is from Nelson Mandela where he says, "I never lose, I either win or I learn." Lovely, yeah, that's it, isn't it? That's exactly— I think it's always looking for that lesson, whatever happens, and that is a brilliant approach to have to everything. I didn't used to have that, I used to be, you know, pretty negative, so for For me, this is one of the things that's really changed in my life, viewing things from this angle. It's very, very empowering, I think. A lot of people can benefit from thinking like this. This is what personally helped me. Everyone's different, so maybe this idea will be able to help people. I love it. I think it's not a new idea. It's been around for a long time, but I think it's putting it into practice. That makes a big difference. Wait, just because it's been around a while? I mean, we forget these things and we forget sometimes the most— well, Stoicism, that goes back centuries, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, very old, very ancient philosophy that I think there's a lot of ideas there that are extremely pragmatic that have stuck around for a long time. You know, they're still as wise today as they were back then, and that's what I really like about it. If the idea is strong, it will survive. Yeah, exactly. We just need to remind ourselves every now and again because common sense doesn't necessarily appear as too common in modern day, unfortunately. Well, it can be wrong as well sometimes. I think we just you know, we need to practice these ideas. And I think that's it, you know, that was— and really this whole project for me has been about practicing these ideas that I've encountered. So it's nice, I think it's important to have a platform to do that. And for me that's been Challenges. And I think that a lot of people will be able to use that concept and you just create the challenge. But, you know, it's these, these ideas that you can then put into practice. So what would be your next tip? Next tip, number 2, I think I said this earlier, but you are what you consume. I think that's extremely important. So if you watch zombie movies and eat pizza all the time, then you are going to— your body and your mind is going to reflect that. You know, I think we just need to be careful about how we feed our minds. As well. So what we consume, if you're consuming lots of negative content and you're hanging around with people who are extremely negative, it's going to rub off on you and your mind is going to mirror that. So I think being conscious of what you consume is very important. Not only just the way you eat as well. We can see that. It's quite obvious if you eat badly, your body will reflect that. But I think if you consume negativity constantly, your mind will reflect that. So I think it's just being conscious of that. That's something that really helped me. Just, I had to cut out a lot of negativity. I had to stop, yeah, consuming negative things. Um, so that was a big one. I think that's helpful. Yeah, I 100% agree. It's, uh, I do find it quite interesting that, um, we've all been stuck inside as definitely people are drinking a bit more and they're watching more TV. And I had to cut out certain TV because it was just becoming a little bit more, a bit more depressing. So I kind of started watching ridiculous comedies, especially for the last few days. I was like, I just want that because I want to consume ridiculous humor rather than, you know, My kids made me watch Contagion the other day. I was like, thanks, kids. Well, actually, the amount of serial killer documentaries on Netflix is ridiculous. Like, I can't, I can't get into that. I can't spend time thinking about such, like, dark negativity. It just will bring me down doing it. Well, yeah, and also, really bizarrely, there's a horrible I'm guessing you're not a soap fan, are you? No. No. So, um, true to my northern roots, I do like Coronation Street and Emmerdale, and there's such a horrific abuse storyline going on on Coronation Street at the moment, and it puts such a downer on me that I had to cut Coronation Street out for, you know, quite a few days. And it was just— it sounds ridiculous because it's Coronation Street, you know, where people make silly jokes and they're they're in a pub and it's all ridiculous. But occasionally, you know, it just— if you're in a particular mindset, you just need to be able to recognise that. And I actually wrote a blog on different TV programmes to feed your positive side and to make you happy and to boost you a little bit. Because, you know, we are watching— well, a lot of us are watching more TV TV at the moment just to entertain us because there's not as much out there that we can or should be doing. I think it's— you're right, it's how do you feel afterwards? How do you feel after you've watched that program? Do you feel pretty awful? Then that's a clear indication that maybe you shouldn't continuously watch it. I think the same with certain people as well. If you, if you come away from seeing someone and you feel drained, you feel really negative, then Maybe that's an indication that you should be conscious of your relationship with that person and how you spend time with them. I think it's just being aware, self-aware of negativity and where that is and how you manage it in your life. I think that's important. Yeah. Completely. Wow, these tips, I'm looking forward to them. What's the third one? I think the third one is, so mindset tip, I think healthy body, healthy mind. If you need to find some kind of regular exercise or something that is going to get you moving, physically moving, and this is huge, the endorphins you get after a good workout, feeling yourself get stronger, and that can be in any kind of sport. It doesn't, I don't, you know, it doesn't matter. Everyone's different, right? So for me, I love running. And climbing, those are my two sports, but I love yoga and other things, but it's just having something to get you moving, and that's just the— I think that's a great thing to have in your life, and it's important to have some kind of physical activity, and it's a great way of connecting with other people, and it's also a great way of switching off as well from daily life, having a focus, and maybe if it's a skill, something like climbing, It takes time to develop a skill like that and you learn a lot as you go along. So not only is it physical, it's mental. So I think these things are great for your mindset and when you start pushing yourself physically, you get a real sense of what your mind is capable of. Again, the marathon example, it doesn't have to be a marathon, right? If you've never run before and your goal is to run a mile or to run a 5K, that's a very physical thing, but it's also very mental. You're going to learn about your mind a lot. So when you push your body physically, you are pushing your mind as well. So I think that's great for our mindsets. I think that's a really positive thing to have in our lives. Interestingly, I mean, I'm the kind of person, or at least I used to be, that, you know, I work out about 5 times a week. Because I've got a dog, I walk. At least 5K a day, but, you know, it quite often could be 10, 15K as well. And I am quite active, and, you know, as I said about, you know, I'm a believer in positivity breeds positivity, but, you know, about the second or third week into quarantine life, you know, I couldn't be bothered moving. Lethargy also breeds lethargy, and I was struggling so much with it, and it kind of— it affects everything because then you want to boost your energy levels, So you eat rubbish food and then you don't sleep properly and it, you know, it tumbles away. And so I started doing YouTube videos, like 5-minute YouTube exercise videos, where just to kind of convince me to do something. And, you know, now I'm at the stage where I do about 7 of them a day. Oh, nice. Yeah, that's good. And don't get me wrong, I'm still out quite a bit, but there was something about exerting. I'm still out walking every day, so, you know, got to get kids out and everything, but my mindset had changed and I needed to ease it back in gently to exerting myself and doing HIIT classes. So it's like 5-minute HIIT classes and then moving up to 7 and then 12 and 15, and then just finding lots of different quirky ones. You know, I've got an Eminem dance move one to do later on today. Don't they? And I'm doing loads of them. I've put myself back in that mindset. But, you know, it is hard sometimes when your mindset starts going in a different direction to shake it up a little bit. So hard. Yeah, you're right. And I think I was exactly the same as you when we went into lockdown. I think I had a week where I just didn't really do a lot of physical activity and I was snacking quite a bit. And actually, this Everest challenge that I was telling you about was the perfect solution because it just— it took me 8 days to do it, of like 3 hours on the steps each day. But it was— oh wow, yeah, it's a lot. It was a really, really big challenge. It took 21 hours to do. But actually, do you know what, having that focus, it picked up momentum, and actually that just got me back on the path after a week of kind of feeling a bit lethargic, like you were saying. And actually just having a goal like that was brilliant, and that just getting back into the you know, the physical side of things. That was nice to have a goal. Something is slightly a little off topic, but I do charity events quite a bit, and I managed to— my son, my eldest son, reached an age where he could do one of the charity events with me, and it was to climb the steps of the Gherkin. Oh no! And yeah, it was brilliant for NSPCC, something that we could do together, and I was practicing, so I was told, you know, even if you— at that point I was doing quite a lot of exercise, but well, I can easily do that. It's just going up some steps. And I turned around to my son, being the northern mother that I am, and I said, you know, just remember, sweetheart, Mummy does a lot of exercise, but I don't really want to lose momentum, so I just want to get myself up to the top. But you can just, you know, I'll meet you up there at the top. But you know, you know, if you start walking slow and then it's hard to to get going again. Anyway, we get going and I realized just how naive I was because he was a 10-year-old boy. He ran all the way up, he passed me. By the time I got up to the top of the steps, I was virtually dying. I thought I was gonna throw up and he's sitting there eating cake, eating fruit and chatting away to loads of people. He's just sitting there going, "Haha!" That's funny, that's really funny. But actually, I mean, if people saying, yeah, it's just going up steps, I go up my steps all the time, it's different. It's not 200 steps, it's thousands. It's like 8,000 steps or something, isn't it, Everest? Everest is 8,848 meters. So I didn't calculate how many steps, but it was, yeah, lots of sets of, you know, lots of reps on my stairs, 2,137 times. Up and down. So yeah, that was, that was tough. That was a lot of steps. Yes, the depths are always underestimated. But yeah, I've never lived that one down. I did manage to make the younger one do a messathon with me, and he was covered. That was brilliant. Now I've got so many more questions that I want to ask you, but unfortunately we've come to the end of the show already. I've I've thoroughly enjoyed being able to pick your brains about your book. Yeah, it's been great fun, it's been amazing, and yeah, it's gone really quickly. And I'd love to find out about your next book when it comes out. I'm sure you're going to be writing another one. Yeah, absolutely. To stay up to date with my project, my website is probably the best place to go. It's benaldrich.com, and there's tons of links and pictures and everything from what I've been up to. That's a good place to connect with me, I think. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for joining us here at Women's Radio Station, and good luck with the book release.