In this episode of Get Booked, host Hazel welcomes Dr. Chinwe Ude, founder and CEO of Health Mary, to discuss the books and ideas that shaped her vision for creating a female-focused health platform. Dr. Ude shares her journey from working in the NHS to launching Health Mary, an app-based platform featuring female-only health specialists designed to address the gender health gap and help women feel truly heard by healthcare providers.
The conversation dives deep into why women struggle to prioritize their own health and wellbeing, often putting everyone else’s needs first. Dr. Ude reveals shocking statistics—4 out of 5 women feel unheard after medical consultations—and explains how Health Mary aims to create a supportive sisterhood of care. She emphasizes that self-care isn’t a luxury but a necessity, both for women themselves and for those who depend on them, whether that’s children, partners, or colleagues.
Throughout the episode, Hazel and Dr. Ude tackle the cultural messages women absorb about their worth and role in society, celebrating how far we’ve come while acknowledging there’s still progress to be made. They discuss the double standards women face in balancing career and family, and how Health Mary extends its mission to men by encouraging them to support the women in their lives. It’s a powerful exploration of feminism, healthcare equality, and the importance of investing in women’s wellbeing as a foundation for thriving communities.
Main Topics
Health Mary is a free, app-based platform featuring only female health specialists designed to address the gender health gap where 4 out of 5 women feel unheard during consultations
Women often deprioritize their own health due to caregiving responsibilities, leading to delayed diagnoses and worse health outcomes compared to men with the same conditions
Self-care is not a luxury but a vital necessity that benefits not only individual women but also their families, colleagues, and entire communities
The cultural narrative around ambitious women must change—women should be able to pursue careers and personal wellness without judgment or accusations of neglect
Health Mary serves men too by providing their female partners with accessible support and resources that ultimately strengthens families and relationships
Empowering women in any community directly correlates with that community's overall success, including economic progress and wellbeing
Creating spaces where women feel seen, heard, and supported by other women who understand their experiences is essential for sustainable health improvements
Full TranscriptToday we have a double whammy show for you on Get Booked. Our guest, Dr. Chinwe Ude, a huge book fan and the founder of ...▼
Today we have a double whammy show for you on Get Booked. Our guest, Dr. Chinwe Ude, a huge book fan and the founder of Health Mary, is going to chat to us about what books help shape her goals in creating the online platform that is Health Mary to help support women improve their health goals and productivity. Hello, welcome to the show. Hi Hazel, hi, thanks for having me. You are very, very welcome. Um, I've been having a quick look on the website just to kind of familiarize myself, but why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about, um, who you are and what you do? All right, so, um, my name is Chinwe. I am a doctor. Um, um, I worked in the NHS for, for quite a few years and, um, and recently I, uh, I'm— I've become the founder and CEO of Health Mary, which is an app-based platform where we are— we've got female-only specialists, so your female GPs and gynecologists and other professionals who are in therapies and who provide health and lifestyle solutions. We have only female providers on there, and we are putting the platform out for free to female-only users. And the whole point is to begin to have the conversations and to start targeting the gender health gap and be part of the solution to the gender health gap that we have had in the UK and indeed all over the world for many years. You know, everywhere you look, both here in the UK and abroad, women are wanting to be heard. They are wanting to have better access to health and lifestyle solutions for themselves. Not least because we are, you know, naturally the primary caregivers in most settings. So as women, we are often in the primary caregiving role, and we find it difficult to prioritize our own health and well-being, not least because we are in those roles, but also because there are often no facilities or structures in place that allow us to access those solutions easily. And so Health Mary is a platform for women by women where I recognize that one of the main barriers to accessing healthcare for women is the fact that they feel unheard. Statistics tell us that it's about 4 out of 5 women feel like they have finished a consultation and still do not feel that they've been seen or heard in their problems. That's horrendous. I feel that a platform where, you know, you can talk to other professionals who see you, who have walked your walk and talked your talk, would be— is absolutely vital and valuable. And the platform isn't only just for finding these women who are specialists, but also they will be creating feeds and content on there which will be extremely high-quality information around health and lifestyle solutions so that any any user can access that information. But then if they want to take the next steps to connect with a health professional to, you know, for their own services, then they are, they have the opportunity to do so. So what I'm trying to create here really isn't just an app, it's a movement. And trying, and we're trying to start rethinking how we women think about our own worth and our own way think we deserve better than what is available out there. And, and so Health Mary is, is there to be part of the solution. There's so much to unpack there because women, we generally, women don't prioritize their health because they don't have time to fix whatever they might figure out is wrong with them. And it's a bit of a joke, isn't it, where somebody will turn around, say the dad will turn around, or somebody at work will turn around and it'll be a bloke and they'll say, oh, I've got a flu, and a woman will just say, I don't have time to have flu right now. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I mean, even more seriously than that is the statistics when you start looking at outcomes for women when it comes to chronic conditions. So I was talking to a consultant friend of mine who is an endocrinologist, and this is— they deal with diabetes and thyroid problems. And he told me that when it comes to foot complications of diabetes, for instance, by the time women are seen for that complication, they are usually far gone. Compared to when men are seen for the same foot complication, when there is lots of opportunities to salvage the foot with other, other techniques and other ways of managing it. And so it comes down to a lot of women having the same condition but really not having either time in themselves to, you know, approach it in the same way they would approach it if it was, say, their husband or their child who had the problem. Because if that was the case, we will be on them, we'll be taking them to hospital, we'll be 'Have you gone to your GP? Have you done this? Have you done that?' But nobody does that for us when we are in the thick of things, when we are in trouble, or we are really looking for solutions for our own health and well-being. So Health Mary is that voice, that sisterhood, that voice that is telling us, 'Come on, girl, we, you know, let's get you sorted. Go in there.' And I just want it to be a platform full of affirmations as well, telling us that we are indeed beautiful and powerful and worthy, which is the campaign campaign line leading up to the app launch very soon. So basically you're trying to get people to understand why it's important that we look after each other, and we're all just kind of going, yeah, you matter too, you have to, you need to actually look after yourself. It's that whole thing of, you know, put on your own mask first when the plane is going down so that you can help other people. Yes, exactly. Yes, I remember like a lot of the mums in my mum group would kind of take the mickey out of me for going to the gym so much when my kids were very young, and they would say, oh well, I don't have the time to just go to the gym and do whatever I want to do. And I said, well, actually, first of all, my kids go in a crèche, so they're getting socialized, but if I'm not fit and healthy, I am rubbish for them. I don't have the energy. The second I come out of the gym, I've got the energy to run around with them like no one's business and to do all the productive things that I to do. So we have to look out for ourselves. And similarly, you hear people saying, you know, oh, I've just done a 13-hour day without a break, and I'm just like, well, you're stupid, you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't have to do that. I think there's a lot of debunking in terms of what we have been fed into our heads about what, you know, what we should be doing as women in terms of caring for others around us. And I'm so happy that the language is changing and that people are beginning to realize that that messaging that we've had for generations now is completely false. You know, self-care is not a luxury. It is absolutely vital, not just for us as individuals on this planet where we have a certain, you know, set amount of time on here basically to be the fullest that we can be, but also for the people around us who are relying on us, our children, our partners, our work colleagues. So self-care isn't actually a luxury, and I am a firm believer of that. And I know it sounds like a big cliché, but it really isn't. You know, it's something that we all need to be accessing as much as possible. But I think a lot of us have a lonely journey when it comes to that. And so Health Mary is a place where, where we can in fact, you know, feel feel connected to the other person who is providing the services. I'm a mom of 3, and I've had a busy career my whole adult life. And so I sit at both sides of the table, Hazel, because I'm also a health provider. But every time I see a patient in my clinic, I look at the child, and because I'm a pediatrician actually by training, but I look at the child and I look at the mom and I look at the dad. And I do all three all at once because, you know, there's almost no— I can't get to that child fully without the full engagement and participation of the parents. Now, a lot of my patients will have complex backgrounds, and it's impossible for me to ignore the fact that, you know, beyond the prescription I can write, there is the other 24 hours of the day where that child has to be in the family, where they have to be managed, and that the person doing that managing is the mom, mainly, usually, where is her strength? Where is her support? Where is her, her, you know, what, what tools has she got to be able to help me as a doctor even to help that child? Does that make sense? It makes complete sense. And I'm sure there's many men listening now saying, I actually do do my fair share around the house. And I'm sure they do. The problem is, I mean, that The problem is that a lot of men out there, that either they don't— they're not given enough information about how they can help, or— yes, what— and you've got to be honest, a lot of us women are control freaks. We're like, oh, don't do it like that, I might as well just do it myself. And then you've got somebody sitting there going, well, you can't complain, I'm not doing anything if you won't let me. So I think sometimes we have to understand each other. So this is what we're talking about. This is, this is helpful for men and women because men need to You know, it— I've got friends who won't let their partners do half the work because, because she needs to keep it close to herself, otherwise she gets anxious. Yes. And it causes a lot of resentment for both men and women, and quite often unreasonably so, or unavoidably so. Yes. And I think, you know, I often say that Health Mary is for men too, in the, in the sense that I think that every man has a woman in their lives who needs Health Mary, who they can actually encourage to download the app. It's a little like, I don't know, you know, between my husband and I, when things get rough, he'll sometimes tell me, well, call your mom. Let's call your mom. And then my mom comes in and, you know, like, it's like everything is fine because she just brings— and he knows that I need her to lean on when— and, and he needs her as well. Does that make sense? To, to when things get really rough. And, and so, and so this is what Health Mary will be and should be to men out there. Here is a platform, here is a space where even your partners can, can access and make things a little better. So, um, yeah, it's, it's just simply that we, we as a culture, you know, need to start reinvesting into women in any community, because there lies the success of that community, of any, you know, society or community, the women. Any settings where women are not empowered often struggle in all aspects, including economic progress, basically. Well, yeah, because you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. If you go out and earn like no one's business and have a really successful, powerful career, then you're accused of possibly neglecting other areas of your life or being selfish. I mean, the language we still use is not okay. Um, you know, if, if our partners— I say our male partners— um, they go off for a weekend you know, every, every other weekend because of football or this or whatever. That's just what they do. Whereas if a woman seems to be going out two weekends in a row, it's like, oh la di da, she gets to do whatever she wants. I wonder, you know, what's been neglected. We still are like that. We still automatically think, you know, if a woman can go off and do whatever she wants, something's been neglected. That is true. That is very true. Um, but you know, every time, um, I have conversation, Hazel, I often like to stop and remember how far we've come as well. You know, if you think back 20, 50, 100 years ago, you know, it feels like that was a completely different planet then, isn't it? And we have come a long way. We have, but we've still got— we've got more to go. Yeah, I love the idea that Health Mary is sitting there. There's people on this platform going, this is why it's important. It's the reassurance, it's the kind of reminding people why it's important that we look after ourselves and making us feel that it is okay that we, we sometimes have to put ourselves first. Yes. Another really important thing about what we're doing, um, Hazel, is, uh, the fact that Health Mary is by women. And we're looking at the women who are in the business of helping, of, of providing health and lifestyle solutions. And those women are also economically challenged in terms of putting out their business and running a business. Many them as mums. A lot of them are estheticians, they are physiotherapists, they are, you know, occupational therapists, and, and they're all there trying to make a living out of caring for other people. And that presents in itself a lot of challenges. So I, for instance, have a private practice, but my experience as a woman in that domain has also been challenging because not only do I have to run the business, I also have to run my home. So Health Mary is a platform where we can really begin to pull ourselves together as women in business and, and provide a space where we can thrive. And my intention really is to share as much as possible with the professionals on there so that they can be able to position themselves even better, both within the platform and, and beyond it. Um, and so, you know, anybody listening to show who is a provider for health for women in, in health, or, or lifestyle provider, like, you know, estheticians and, you know, therapies, whatever it is that you do and you have a business doing it, then this is a really good opportunity to help us sort of create this space for, for to progress ourselves as women in business as well. Another element to Health Mary that I was thinking about earlier is that the way it feeds into our, um, well-being is, is very altruistic, isn't it? And, and having— helping somebody else really is invaluable to our own selves and empowering ourselves and helping empower other people. And Yeah, that's fantastic to be able to feel good about ourselves and, and purpose. Purpose is so important in our mental health and mental well-being. And I suppose, you know, on both sides, whether you're the giver or the receiver of the services on Health Mary, both count. Yeah, it does, absolutely. I mean, one of the reasons why this is an app, a software app, is because the potential is, is huge. You know, we do intend, um, to have, you know, like a sister Pull Me Along program on there where people can engage differently and help other women who are not, um, who are sort of struggling, you know, individually and as a group. So looking at women who are, um, you know, not socioeconomically in a place to access healthcare, their challenges are even bigger than, you know, yours or mine, you know. And so a platform like HealthMerry gives us a lot of potential to be able to enrich even better. And that's one of the reasons why I, as a CEO, insisted that it has to be free for users. It has to be a platform where people, even when you come into the platform and you're not able to connect or afford to maybe get an appointment with a physiotherapist or with a GP, there is that section there, which is a feed section where there is still loads of information coming from those health professionals that will be still as valuable. And the big difference there is that they are literally straight from the, from the lips of these women who are qualified in their fields, and not the sort of sugar-coated or overly commercialized angle that you'd get in other social platforms like, you know, Instagram or those, all those other places. There will be really raw, good quality professional content, all made very nice and lovely, by the way, you know, because I call it the Hey Girl feature. I'm on that now. I'm just having a look at healthmary.co.uk. Yes, move around. So yeah, it's a Hey Girl feature. The app is going to be live by next week, actually, so I'm happy to put it out there. Um, and so and it'll be on the app stores for people to use. And it's initially, it's going to be a blank canvas, but so to speak, you know, because we're kind of actively onboarding people at the moment. But, but I, but I'm, it's my baby. I just want to, I can't wait to get it out there for people to, to see and to start exploring. I can't wait to explore it as well. Um, and super excited. Yeah. Now You're a huge book fan, aren't you? Yes. So I, I gather you read quite a lot, and I suppose that helps you kind of learn more about people to help you develop things like Health Mary. Is there something that you've been reading recently that has, has really changed your mindset or contributed to your mindset? Yes, so absolutely. So the book I'm reading now is called, um, How to Be Your Own Therapist by Owen O'Kane. Now I am in chap— I'm just about 2 chapters to finish now. Now this book is, is really interesting because what he's doing there is, is a really, really good technique of teaching people how to actually be your own therapist. And at first looking at the COVID I was thinking, well, okay, how is that going to be? How's that going to— but actually the first part of the book is telling— is, it's kind of helping you completely debunk, go back a little bit within yourself, but not so much that you're stuck, you know. And then start looking at your life story in a way, kind of remove yourself from the whole thing and look at your life story. And I did practice it, I did do it. It totally ruined the weekend away with my husband because I was at a page where I was like, oh my God, what a life story this is, you know. And I was like I was like, ah, but he did warn me in the book that that was going to happen, so that was okay. Um, but then subsequently it was a really good calm down next phase where you're now kind of linking back to the things that you're struggling with now and how it does in fact link back to your belief system. It does in fact link back to your experiences from before. And then, and then going through Moving then forward is then the daily practices that will then help ground you. And he's talking about a 10-minute practice of real healthcare. And the last chapter I was reading was about real self-care, which links into a little blog I've been secretly writing for the last year or so, which I haven't published because I'm a shy— I'm a bit shy yet. But what I'm talking about, real self-care, and he really nailed it for me. He's talking about self-care and self-compassion. You know, which is something that we don't do. And it's not just us women. I said, I said, most human beings don't actually really self-care and, and treat themselves like they would treat, in fact, even a colleague or a professional colleague, you know. We talk, we talk down to ourselves quite a lot in a tone that we don't even normally use with other people. Yeah, it's so appalling. Yeah, it can be really appalling thinking about it. Um, so yes, and then this is a 10-minute, um, therapy every day because again, he's preaching this self-care technique not as a tool or anything, but it's a lifestyle, you know, just a lifestyle. You embed it the same way you wake up and you brush your teeth in the morning and you shower and get dressed. That should happen for your— for our minds. You're not gonna get in a car, never have an MOT on it, or check that you feel, you know, that it's— you, you have enough fuel to make the trip. So why do we keep expecting ourselves to run on empty, you know? Do you know what, the, the amount of people that just say, I don't have time to do this, and I'm thinking the people that say this so often are the people that need to more specifically make time, you know, we can't run on empty because we just make things worse for ourselves. I know that when I am struggling, I am short with my kids, my dog, I don't eat properly, so I don't sleep properly, and then I'm, I'm a nightmare at work, and then I worry that I'm going to lose my job because I'm doing the job badly because I'm not looking after myself, and I'm constantly feeling like I'm failing at everything. You just— I'm so much better now. I know, I know what brings me back round. I know what I need to do. It doesn't mean that I'm always feeling perfect. It just— I just know that when I'm feeling low, I need to go and sit in a cafe and read a book, or go and take my dog for a really, really long walk, or just have a couple of days where I'm watching comedy. And one of those three things will help. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think, you know, people think, oh, you know, that, you know, this is all quite tricky, this is all too much, I don't have time and everything else. But never mind the fact that you don't have time. What we need to change is that thinking that we don't have time. That's what I mean. Yeah. And, and so it's, it's really interesting how, um, how he approaches this because it's, um, I, I think that's a book everybody should read. And I'm not, you know, you know, I don't have any, um, any rights to the book anything. It's just a book you like. But, but it's rare that I read something that actually, um, stops me in my tracks because I'm a bit of a book reader. And he just nails certain parts of that, just nails it home. He summarizes it so well and puts it into perspective. I mean, you know, and then listening to it, I was thinking back to the last book I read, which is this book called, uh, The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo. Oh, I've— I listened to that. I did it on Audible. Yeah. And you know, the book, right, is— I'm sure you, you know, you've read it, so you know that it's about this really long, full life by this woman, right? Then when I was reading it, that's all what I was thinking. This is a woman who is— obviously it was a fictitious book, I think. I hope. I think so. Yeah. Um, and, um, and the fullness of it. And then that book actually got me thinking, well, what is my story? Which is why when I read Owen's book, I was now thinking, okay, thinking, speaking of stories, what is my story? What are the— what are the beautiful bits and what are the ugly bits? What are the not so nice— what are the bits that I've swept under the carpet? And if I was to write my own, you know, book, what would it look like, you know? And, um, and it was really interesting how reflecting on my life story, I couldn't remember quite a lot of the good things as well as I remembered the, you know, the bad bits. Well, that's a mindset. We need to retrain our mindset. You see what I mean? Yeah. And I was so happy reading, um, Owen's book that I'm not the only one. You know, he said the patient, every time he sees people and you ask them, what's your life story, well, so quick to pinpoint all of those, all of the times that have been challenging and been bad and been traumatic, you know. And those times need their due diligence, you know. You— we have to recognize them. But I just found it interesting how I, I actually had, had to put a little extra effort to remember the, the good bits, you know. We're so terrible. It works. We're so bad at this. And the thing is, we're excellent at doing what we need to do for ourselves, sadly, for other people. So I know that, you know, I sometimes have a friend sit right in front of me and just say, I am failing, my kids hate me, the relationship's like this, blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, you're focusing on all the negative. You've just moved into a beautiful home, your kids are happy as Larry. Kids are just a little bit of a dick every now and again because they're kids. And that, you know, Kids can be hard work. It's an interesting term to use for children, um, but, but, you know, she's, she's excelling in her career. She has people falling over her to, to, um, give her different jobs and offer her opportunities. She's surrounded by so many friends, and she makes friends easily. She retains them, and she can cook incredibly. And, and she's like, oh, actually, yeah, I'm kind of passionate. And yet we can't— we can do this for our friends, but we won't ever do it for ourselves. Yeah, exactly. I, I— it's a human condition, I have to say, Hazel. That's my own conclusion, isn't it? But it's a human condition that we need to at least be aware of and recognize, and then, and then call ourselves out when we see ourselves doing those things or behaving in that way. Um, but we can't always do that if we don't stop regularly to sense and, and sense check ourselves, you know. That's the only way to be able to self-care well and truly and, and sense check ourselves. A lot of people think that self-care is going to the spa and, and, you know, time off or away on holiday, and that counts, by the way. Yeah, I think a good spa day is, is really good, uh, but, um, but self-care has to be every day, the same way we take care of our physical selves. It has to be small bits every day. Well, I quite often have this situation both with men and women at work where they'll work all the way through, they'll do this 12 hours, a bit like what I was talking about earlier in the show, and they're a nightmare because for the second half of the day they're short-tempered, they're erratic, they're quite anxious, whereas if they'd gone off for a run for 30 minutes at lunchtime or read a book somewhere or just gone away from their screen and laid down on a bench somewhere where the second half of the day would have been a lot better, so much more productive. Yeah. And it's just, I don't have time to stop. You do. You need to find time because otherwise the second half of the day is going to be wasted. It's going to be pointless. Yeah. Because you've not recharged properly. And how would you know to stop if you hadn't planned it from when you woke up that morning? Yeah. So if you had had your 4 minutes at like, um, the book I was talking about, How to Be a Therapist. Yeah, sorry. So, you know, if you, if you haven't had your 4 minutes of brush your teeth, have a shower, get dressed, and then another 3, 4 minutes of like, okay, where am I feeling today? How am I feeling today? What am I feeling? What's, what's ahead of me? When am I going to put in that short run? When am I going to lie on a bench? Have I packed my lunch? You know, what am I going to eat? When am I going to eat? And things like that. If you haven't planned it, then the day will end and the, the whole day has happened to you instead of you being in the, in the moment. Yeah. Um, so that's why this daily— and I totally agree with him that this daily, uh, moments, um, you know, 2 minutes, 3 minutes here and there is really important. But we have to keep practicing it and make it part of lifestyle. And again, ultimately people have to find whatever suits them. Yes, that's the thing, isn't it? Uh, and this is what I— anyway, yeah, we need to read books to find out different ideas, and sometimes you can only use 50% of a book or 10%, but that 10% could possibly be invaluable. We just need to find what works for us. I've actually just put How to Be Your Own Therapist on my TBR list on Amazon. You'll love it. I think you'll absolutely love I love it. So how do you find time to, to read? How often do you read? So I have found that recently, um, it's okay. So if I go back the last 6 months or so when things got pretty busy, right, I have found that, um, it was really hard, really, really difficult. And so I think that I respond to challenge, all right, quite a bit as a person. So this is tapping into my own self, a bit of self-awareness here. So what I did was that I set myself a challenge, and I set it on LinkedIn so that I have to follow through. And I did my, uh, one book a week for 10 weeks challenge. Oh wow. And, uh, and so that's got me through this, this chasm of period when I just didn't have time. Honestly, Hazel, I didn't. But that meant that because I knew I had this challenge going on, you know, which was so— because I'm hoping not many people will actually follow me and make sure I did it, but So it gave me that little incentive. So it's in the night when everywhere is quiet and settled. I read, I just get my 2 hours or hour, whatever it is I can, and then fall asleep with it. And I also found that reading in the evenings meant I'm not on my phone. Yes. Having the screen exposure does affect your sleep. So I was, in fact, I am sleeping a lot better. My current book, I'm actually listening to it. It. So I play while I'm listening to it, part and part. So I got the book and I've got it on Audible so that on my drive— so once a week I drive, commute an hour to Surrey. So I listen to it going and coming back. So it's— and again, what I've done over the years is really adjusted my tactics as my life has changed and evolved. One thing, that's one advice, because it's not one size fits all, and it's certainly not one size fits even the same person, right? As we, as we get on in life, from when you are, you know, on your own and in school, up to when you are a mom of 3, 4, 5 kids, and then you're— we all are evolving And so we need to keep checking in to see that what we're doing is still working and then just make, make adjustments. So for me, setting that week, that challenge, got me through about 3 months of trying to maintain my, my, my love for reading, because otherwise, you know, other things take over. You know what I found? I mean, I do read a lot. I need to read a lot for Get Booked. I need to read a lot quite often just to kind of control ultimately my brain. But I used to get really anxious when trains were delayed, or I'm stuck in traffic, but I don't get anxious anymore now because if I'm stuck on the M25, I'm listening to an Audible, so I'm multitasking and it's productive. If the train's a bit late, or I'm just annoyed that I'm traveling, doing more and more traveling, I'm always reading, so it's productive time. And it's really helped the— my outlook towards feeling like I'm stuck somewhere Yes, because I'm being productive. And so I do, yeah, I probably read a book a week. I've always got 2 or 3 books on the go as well. Yeah. Oh really? It's amazing. I could never do that. I could never read more than one at a time, you know, because yeah, it's really difficult. I mean, about a year ago, so maybe 2022, I think was my worst year ever for reading. I don't think I read a single book, like But that was my, my, my whole schedule, my whole life. There was just so much going on, you know. Yeah. Um, but I was quite quick to forgive myself, uh, and then, then had a rethink. Okay, so how am I going to do this now? Because I love reading and I know it's a really important tool for me, it's even for my own, you know, mental health and well-being. And I wasn't prepared to let it go, and I wasn't prepared to let, let the life, you know, pulls win. Um, and so I changed tactics, you know. I started by, you know, my— in fact, the very first book of that challenge was, um, How to Build a Billion Dollar App. We'll find out how it's going. So that was really useful. Um, and then, and then that's it. And then I started and I read other things. I read, um, uh, oh dear, oh Oh God, ah, what was it called? The Art of War. I read that as part of that series. I read, um, The Chimp Paradox. Yeah, um, I read, I read Elon Musk. I love that book. Really? Yes, I love that book. Um, I read, um, The, The Shoe Dog, which is the story of Phil Knight, who is the Nike, um, Nike founder and owner of Nike. Yeah, what else was part of that 10 Books a Week challenge? Um, they're pretty intense books that you're listing. I know, right? Like, I went— it was as if I was trying to make up for the previous year. No, there's no, there's no kind of, uh, domestic noir or somebody just kind of going, oh, fell in love with my neighbor. No, no, I was, um— and, and you know, the interesting thing is that you know, seeing me read actually kind of ignited the whole— my kids, the whole family. It's really interesting how our own behaviors within the, within the home can, can make a difference, really, you know, because everybody got interested and they were not only cheering me on, but, but, you know, it started the conversation. Well, who else is reading what, you know, which was good. It was really nice. I really like that. What's next in your— on your TBR list? Um, I don't know. I was actually hoping you'd tell me. Somebody told me to read this book called, uh, Rebel— Rebel, uh, what's it called? I think Rebel Women. Oh, okay. Rebel Women. Yeah, this is, um, this is a friend that sent me a message recently. Oh, Rosalind Miles. Yes, The Renegades. Yes, okay, well, tell me again, what, what is that again? What did you say? Rosalind Miles? Yes, all the women you want to know about, uh, women's history, history from 1800 to today. I love the idea of that. That's going on my TBR. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Oh, that's it. Yes. Yes. And, um, and then, uh, who— what was it again? Who was it that told me? Do you read— do you read much fiction? Yes, I do, actually. I do. Um, oh, I read the— oh, the fiction bit about— in the— in my 10 Book a Week challenge was, um, um, my daughter gave me the book. What was it called? Um, oh boy. Oh, the pressure, Chin Wing. I'll, I'll remember it, I'll remember it, I'll remember it. Don't worry, it'll come to me, it'll come to me. So if we carry on, I'll remember it in a minute. Well, just see the COVID So I've put all of my reviews up on hazelbutterfield.com. I only put up reviews about things that I've read and liked. If I don't particularly like something, I'm not going to say, I'm just not going to review it because is it just might not be to my taste, and it's very hard out there for authors, so I'm not going to put up a bad review because I think it's pointless and unhelpful. Yeah. Um, but I've had— I mean, I'm very lucky that a lot of the books I read, I actually get to interview the authors as well. But if you pop onto— yeah, I'm so lucky. I read a book, and whether it's fiction or non-fiction, I'm reading it going, I'm gonna get like 45 minutes chatting to you about this. And I'm just— I love what I do. Oh my, oh my goodness, that's interesting. So which, um, interesting people have you interviewed recently? So about 2 or 3 months ago, I interviewed somebody called Emmanuel Jal, and he wrote a book, My Life Is Art. Now he started off as like a South Sudanese war child, you know, he was a soldier, he was kind of trained to kill people in war at the age of 7 and 8 and whatnot, and he really did get dealt a terrible hand. His whole family were killed left, right, and center. It was, it was terrible. And he had found a way to find positivity and goodness from what he'd gone through, through just learning and understanding the world. And his positivity was so infectious. And he's like, he's gone through some horrific things, and how he's managed to turn that around and put it to good use was excellent. Um, there was Alice Capelle, who she wrote about collapsed feminism. Now that would be a really good one for you to kind of understand the kind of differences and the conflicting opinions of what people think feminism is. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna share the link with me, uh, the, the books with me, or the links with me later, please? That'll be great. Yes, I will. Okay, make notes here. But yeah, I No, I'll send them, I'll send them all to you. And but I really, I kind of dip in it, so I need to read. If I read non-fiction, I then need some fiction for a bit to kind of fiddle me a little bit. I need something that, you know, I mean, you know, it might be lots and lots of murder, but you know, it's entertaining. Um, I did interject my, my 10-week challenge with fiction. Oh, Six of Crows. Six of Crows was a book. Um, yeah, so it was a way to talk about sci-fi, a band of thieves that were going to the they're trying— going to, you know, rescue this prisoner. But it's one— it's one of six. It's part one of six series, which I don't think I'll ever get around to reading the other six. But it was a really good read. Um, another really impactful one I read was, um, Salt Path. Salt— on the Salt Path. This is a book about homelessness. This couple that became homeless because they are, you know, their accountant or lawyer did something, and they decided to go on this long walk along the, um, the English English coast, uh, from Wales, I think, down the English coast. And they walked for almost 200 days or something like that because they literally had nowhere else to go. They had a small farm. And it's a true life story, by the way. Um, and it was just incredible. It was just— I was just reading this and thinking, oh my God, you know. I would recommend that one, Hazel, actually. The Salt Path. The Salt Path. I'm just putting it on in my basket now. The prize-winning Sunday Times bestseller from the million copy bestselling author Raina Wynne. Yes, I suspect they're possibly not homeless now. No, they're not. But it's just incredible. At the end of the journey, um, was an incredible stroke of luck. You know, I was thinking, oh my God, wow, you know, this is terrible, you know. But then they, they, they, uh, the last place they stopped, uh, in a way, you know, got them started. And I think he eventually went back to school because that was a plan. They were going to start a course at the end of the day. They ran out of money. It was just— yeah, just read it. You— I think you'd love it. You'll love it. Next time we catch up, hopefully you tell me what you think. Yeah, we can chat about it. Yeah. Um, we are gonna— we're gonna run out of time. I could chat about books and Health Mary and the whole concept for absolutely hours and hours, but we are constricted. But I would like to know, and I, I'm pretty certain these are going to be incredible, uh, what your 3 top tips on maintaining a good kind of level of mental well-being. So my 3 top tips are, um, by the way, just put me under pressure there, so I didn't know I was going to be doing this. But yes, just off the top of my head is one, self-value and worth. I think we need to start talking to ourselves like we value ourselves. Nobody's gonna do it for us. Um, which leads me to my second tip. Let's just understand that as women, we are born to take the lead. We are born and, you know, made to be in the position of power, of, of the being the care provider for everybody around us. So that we need to start— um, my second tip will be to start looking at ourselves as leaders and realize that no one is coming to rescue us. We have to do it ourselves. And 3 is for us to start learning to acknowledge ourselves and also to reward ourselves for a job well done. I don't care, you know, what the whole world says. You shouldn't care what the whole world says. You should look factually at the things that you have done, which as far as— as long as you're a woman, you have done well. Well. For baseline, we are doing great, and we should start learning to reward ourselves and say, congratulations, girl, you've done it, you're doing great. Those are my 3 tips. I absolutely love that. Do you know the biggest thing? We worry about other people's opinion so much, and half the time we worry, we worry more about the opinion of people who we don't even particularly like. Think? Or no, we don't know them. Who are these people telling you otherwise, you know? Who are they? We wouldn't even trust— you know, we wouldn't want to be in their position. We don't trust their own kind of decisions that they're making, yet we care what they think about you, and they've never lived a day in your shoes. Yeah, I mean, and, and I think Health Mary is, is something that I want people to point inwards. What it's doing is allowing us to look inwards into our own internal strength as women. Because when outwardly the whole world is often trying to tell us how to be, what to do, how to dress, what to say, there's always a lot of chatter about it, about us and what we should be doing. But Health Mary is an inward look and an inward reach to women who really know and understand you. And I would just want to put out a call out there for everybody who's listening to this. And when they go and download the app, to actually consider it as our thing. This is not Dr. Ode telling you to, you know, please download the app with the mindset that this is ours. All right, let's build it, let's make it, let's, let's populate it, let's make it work, you know, because, you know, it wouldn't work unless, unless I have my sisters all across the UK, uh, backing us on this one. And I need your support with it. I was just, um, I know that we're running out of time, but, um, there are, there are sections on healthmary.co.uk that really detail how people can get involved, be ambassadors, be a part of the platform and the project as well. So there's plenty more information on there with various social media links so they can connect with you and find out more. I've enjoyed my chat so much with you today for Get Booked that I've got my dog sitting next to me and she's seen me get so animated. It's ignited so much passion that she kept on having to wake up and look at me and say, "Are you okay, Mum?" I'll take that as a compliment then. What's your dog's name? Charlie. Charlie. Oh, how cute. What breed is she? She's a beagle, so the look I get, you know, it normally looks like disdain, but I think it was, it was concern because I was just getting so animated again. We need to look after each other. She just keeps on looking up and going, Mom, you're all right, it's fine. Yes, yeah, she gets it as well, you know. And that's what Health Mary is— let's look after ourselves and each other. That's my mantra, you know. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, she works. I've got two teenage boys, so, you know, they kind of ignore me unless they really he wants something. Um, mother of boys, mother of teenage boys, we're a different kind of mindset. So I quite often utilize my dog. She, she'll take me out for a glass of wine where I can go and read a book somewhere. She'll come for a nice long walk. She's brilliant. We really support each other. I think it's brilliant. I think you're brilliant, Hazel. I mean, from what, what we've, you know, talked about today, you know, you— I love that you read. I love that you are mindful. And I love that you are sharing that your, your, you know, power and platform, allowing people to, to access, you know, the things you know and, and you want to share it. I think that's really powerful. So well done, you. I mean, oh, thank you. Yeah, you're very kind. And yeah, well, I thoroughly enjoyed chatting to you on Get Booked. And please, listeners, pop onto healthmary.co.uk to find out more about today's guest, Chinwe Ude. Thank you for joining us. Yes. Thank you, Hazel. Bye. I'm Hazel Butterfield and you've been listening to Get Booked for Women's Radio Station and Men's Radio Station. If you want to have a little bit of a look at the platform that today's guest Chinwe Ude was talking about today, it is healthmary.co.uk. For those of you that missed last week's show, Sylvie Boulay was chatting to us about book Beyond Beige, and she was such a treat. Have a little sneaky peek, and as ever, pop onto our website womensradiostation.com to catch up on all previous shows. Thank you for joining me. Hi, today's book, this witty, shocking, brutally honest illustrated book Beyond Beige, talks about the actual changes that women experience after a certain age, uh, but a lot younger for some of us as well. Author Sylvie Boulay, in her 70s, draws from her own experience and that of others. She has shared her thoughts with. It was— it's very rare that we open up so much about the changes we go through at certain times of life. Menopause has broken that mold and is widely talked about now, and hopefully this book will go part of the way to open up about what to expect and to know that you're not alone in life beyond the menopause. You know, as women, we go through many stages in ages, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, perimenopause, menopause, but what comes after menopause? It's old age. Sylvie, welcome to Get Booked! How are you? I'm a little bit nervous, but I'm so excited to be on Get Booked! I'm so excited to have you on Get Booked! I mean, I actually, um, I was speaking to your PR lady when I started reading the book, and I said, I'm 42 and I'm going through most of these things that Sylvie is talking about, and she's like, mate, I'm 50, and I completely identify with what she has to say. So it's, um, it's not just old age. Sometimes it's just hectic life, and we possibly attribute old age to it, but it also, you know, it is a factor. That's something that we have to just acknowledge. But I have been giggling my way through Beyond Beige. I actually— it One of the places I work at, I quite often leave whatever book I'm reading in the toilets where everybody can kind of have a bit of a sneaky peek. And I've had so many of the women going, I love it. That happens to me. Why, why are you still be saying it's just in your old age? You know, I'm in my late 30s and I've been doing this. So yeah, your book has definitely got a wide reach. I'm so excited about that, although I do think you're far too young for this. This, but I really felt that as, as women got older, they weren't allowed to talk about it anymore. Even my friends, when I tried to get them to talk about old age, would actually say very little. They might talk about their aches and pains, but actually what it really felt like, the whole experience of getting old, they would shut up and not say anything. And it's as if women are told, 'Just put up with it. It's something that you just have to accept.' And I wasn't prepared to accept it. And I also found a lot of things were really funny, so I couldn't stop myself. I had to start drawing, drawing cartoons about all my experiences. And when I had loads and loads of cartoons, I thought, 'I don't care what anybody thinks, I'm going to share this.' You know what, that is one of the beauties of getting a little bit older. We care less about what other people think. Yes, it doesn't matter. Do you know what, I still care about what people think about me, and I can't wait for that to stop. And, and it— I think it really does stop, or it diminishes enormously. I found some of the reactions I got from my friends while I was writing Beyond weren't actually all that positive. There was one friend who said to me, "Oh, you're just a show-off." And at first I was a bit hurt, and then I thought, actually, this is a great compliment, and I should take it as that. I'm an old woman, and I'm a loud one, and I shall stay that way. But can you imagine if we were all the same, and how incredibly dull life would be? We don't We don't— some of us want to talk about what's going on, and sometimes some of us like to just stick our head in the sand and go, la la la, it's not happening. But you know, this is, this is the point. You can choose to do things how you want to do it, but I think the more that people talk about things, as with anything in life, the easier it is to deal with and not feel lonely with just how scary life can be, no matter what we're going I totally agree. And I was so interested that a lot of my friends didn't want to talk. But once I was showing them drafts of my book, all sorts of stories were coming out. And even very old friends were told— telling me things that they'd never said before. So I think we may need a little bit of a push, some sort of aid to start talking. And amazingly, I found that my book did that. It made people talk. Well, I think sometimes it's about finding the right people for you as well, because some people want to be stoic, whether it's a cultural thing or just the way you are brought up. But I know with my friends, um, quite a few of my friends are possibly about 10, 10, 15 years older than me, and, you know, we'll be jumping about like no one's business, or we'll, we'll have one too many glasses of fizz and we'll suddenly decide to start jumping on their daughter's trampoline and we'll be like, who's peed first? And you know, we have a laugh with it because it's normal. And you know, the more we kind of shy away from it, have a little bit of fun with it. You might as well. I agree. And I found all my ideas about this book for some reason came out as comic strips. So I started to sketch them just to amuse myself and amuse my friends, and then they grew and there were so many I just had to do something with them, and that's when I had the idea of turning them into an illustrated book. I wanted originally to have a graphic novel, but my drawing's not good enough, so it's just ended up being half text and half drawings. I've got to disagree with you there. I mean, I was going to ask you about whether they they were your illustrations, but I love them. They're— thank you— they're so realistic, they're funny, they're very satirical, and I think it just shows your humor the way that they're done. Thank you so much. I mean, with them, I wrote another book before with just a few illustrations, and they were all done in pen and paper, and the publisher complained and said, I can see your rubber marks on there, you just can't send that to me, you have to start again. So this time I bought myself an iPad and I learned to use Procreate. And to a young person, certainly to my granddaughter, it's incredibly easy. Within 5 minutes she was doing beautiful photos and beautiful artwork. But for me, it was a complete nightmare. I cried. I called my friends. I had all sorts of panic attacks about it, but I had to somehow be able to draw properly. So That's actually what I'm most proud of, having mastered my iPad. I'm quite proud of you for that as well. I haven't managed to do that yet at all. I mean, to be honest, I, I have to go through this way. I've got two teenage boys, and sometimes I dread when something doesn't work because I know if I ask them, they will do it. They will sort it in seconds. They'll look at it and literally sometimes just the way they 'Look at the technological device and just make it start working again.' And I'm just like, I don't want to ask them because they're going to look at me with that kind of pitying, disdainful look that the dog also gives me when I won't give her a bacon sandwich, do you know? And so sometimes we struggle on our own because we don't want that look. Absolutely. And also, I bet your teenage sons don't actually explain, so you don't learn for next time. Is that right? Oh yeah, they would never explain. And when I ask them to. They're just like, oh, you're just so much hard work, Mom. I'm like, but then I will know for next time. But also, in the same way that you've learned to use the, the creative element of your iPad, sometimes if we go through the harder way of doing things, we learn through our own mistakes and we understand things more. Absolutely, that is so true. It just took me so long and so much effort, but now I should definitely remember how how to use Procreate and how to do illustrations for the rest of my life.
