Get Booked – Danah Mor, “Shine Brighter Everyday”

Hello, I'm Hazel and welcome to my show here at Women's Radio Station, all about my love of books, cleverly entitled Get Booked. Throughout my shows, we will talk about what I've read, what I'm reading, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts. Many of my book reviews go up on my website too at hazelbutterfield.com, and you can follow me @nuttybutty on Twitter, or you can use the WRS Twitter as well. Um, please do feel free to contact us, and you can go on to my website hazelbutterfield.com if you want to send me any book recommendations, ask to come on the show for a chat, maybe you're releasing your— or just want to say hi. Why not, eh? Uh, and today joining us in the studio is Donna Moore, the author of Shine Brighter Every Day, which outlines her unique insight into diet, lifestyle, and well-being based on Ayurvedic principles. Her personal story is intriguing as she discovered new and beneficial ways to live, to live after losing her sight at 13. She's now a certified health professional, and this is her first book. Hello, Donna, how are you? Hello, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here today, all the way from Portugal as well. Yes, and in Portugal. It's going to be interesting because obviously we've had to do all our recordings of our shows remotely while COVID's been going on. But so now we have not only Wi-Fi issues, but just making sure that hopefully everything works beautifully because I want to hear absolutely everything you've got to say about Shine Brighter. Seriously, I've been working very through your book and adding to Amazon basket, my Tesco shop. I've been clearing out my cupboards. I've been— it's, it's been quite cathartic. I've really enjoyed getting stuck in with it. Wow, that's so exciting to hear. Yeah, the thing is, we do tend to have a few lazy habits with what we eat and, and just what we surround ourselves with And I always thought I was incredibly healthy, well-ish, and there are so many things in my fridge that I've been like, "Mm, not only for me, but the dog and the cat can have it." Yeah. So I've been working my way through. Do you know what? It is, but it's books like yours that kind of remind us of basic common sense of how lazy we're getting and just I've been absolutely reading through some of your chapters and just going, this is unbelievable. Of course I should have known this is the case. And this is why we seem to all have all these intolerances. And it's incredibly interesting. You must have thoroughly loved putting this book together. Oh yeah, it's definitely— I've definitely poured my heart and soul into the book. But the most important thing for me when I was writing was thinking about the way the book would look for the reader and that it wasn't just going to be like a chalk block full of text book because I think that's quite boring. I'm, I'm very visual and I think creative people need to be inspired too. So I really wanted to be like a fun read and something that like every time you got kind of fed up of wanting to be healthier, you got excited by the image that you saw or by the table that was being shown or a new, a new chapter or a new title. So the book is like quite dynamic and very interactive. And that was, for me, was like the most important thing. Like, okay, how am I going to make this the most exciting read someone ever does? And, uh, you definitely achieved that. I mean, basically, the— as I've been working through your book, it's like well-being porn. It's just, it's, it just grabs you. It's— you must be so incredibly happy with it. It's like very— I think we should make that a new hashtag. Well-being porn. Take it, please. You are very welcome. Now, I've got so many questions for you, but what I would like, just for our listeners, can you just explain a little bit of your backstory? You've got quite an interesting backstory. You don't stay in one place. You're one of these people, as soon as you master one thing, I'm pretty certain you've already got 12 things already lined up in your to-do list. To master next, am I right? Oh my God, yeah, completely. Like piano playing and all kinds of random things that need to be part of my life. Where can I begin? I can begin where I'm from, which is quite a kind of a fruit salad or a cocktail or a melting pot. I was born in Amsterdam, and my parents are from two different countries. And two different— with two different religions. So my parents are from South Africa, my mother's from South Africa, my father is from Israel, and I grew up in Portugal by the sea pretty much my whole life until I was about 17, and then I started traveling and studying different parts of the world and kind of only stopped a few years ago. Um, and yeah, that's kind of like— I grew up in a really, really multicultural family. We speak lots of languages at home, and I learned a few more along the way. And one of my favorite things is really communication and connecting with people on different levels. I loved traveling around the world, like discovering and connecting with indigenous tribes and understanding how different communities live around the world. And one of my main interests was always like, how did people live before? Before all this food, like industrial food came along, how did people live before? And we're all so different in different parts of the world, there's different food. So it was always like something that I was really curious about, and I was always like, that was my first priority, traveling. So if I had any money, it would always be saved. Like, if I got birthday presents or anything, it was always save the money to travel. And I started traveling alone when I was really young, and my mom was quite— I was very responsible, so she was like, okay, well, as long as someone's picking you up at the airport. And I had like everything organized, and I'd be like 13 years old, 14, traveling different parts. Not completely alone, but it was always like without any friends and without any parents, meeting other people. And it was always like very adventurous. I can definitely say I always kind of put myself out of my comfort zone, and it was like that was my excitement of life, like learning in this kind of very kind of forceful way of like, wow, I don't know anyone, I don't know anything here, wow, amazing. But the feeling that life gives you when you're out of your comfort zone is just incredible. I think it's really priceless. I think more of us need to dare to get out of our comfort zone because we would be so surprised how amazing it is. It's scary at first and you're like, why did I do this? Oh my God, what am I doing? I want to go back home. Oh no, oh no. But once you kind of let into it and you just accept, it's quite incredible, the, the energy that comes from all of that. It's, it's really incredible. Well, actually, I'm quite similar in that I started traveling pretty much when I was to my mum's absolute horror. And, you know, a lot of my friends would be going, "Oh cool, can we come with you?" I'm like, "Oh no!" Because you don't actually experience as much when you go with other people, because if you're on your own, people are more likely to speak to you, but you're also, you know, you're more encouraged to get out of your comfort zone. And, you know, even now my friends say, literally, you just walk into a park and you start talking to random people. And it's just, you know, some of my best friends are people I've just met while, you know, taking the dog out for a walk and I absolutely— I'm probably the most sociable loner you will come across. But I mean, my mum was the same, like, she'd be going, 'Are you really going to Australia for 3 months on your own when you're like 17?' I'm like, 'Yeah, yeah, I'm good. I'll give you a call at some point.' But I absolutely love it and you just, you experience more. And also, if you want to do something, you don't have to actually check with the person you're travelling with. You just do what you want when you want to do it, and don't worry about someone's a bit bored by it or if it's not their thing. It's fantastic. I also think that whatever you— like, when you travel alone, you resonate a certain vibe in yourself, and you, you actually attract people on the same vibe, and you actually do things that you might have always wanted to do but you never had the courage because of the, like, the fear of being judged by your friends or people that you knew. So when you're, like, traveling alone, like, you just do exactly what Like you're living your life your way. And it's quite incredible because you really have to think on your feet. You have to be like courageous when you want to just be scared. And I mean, you have to push yourself through barriers that you normally wouldn't because comfortable is so easy to stay in. And when you're traveling alone, nothing is comfortable because if you're alone in a room and you're like, okay, I'm not going to meet anyone, this is not comfortable either. So there's nothing that's comfortable. So it's quite incredible. The, the barriers you push through when you're traveling alone. Oh yeah, I've actually prescribed it to someone. I actually prescribed it to someone, to a client. I was like, you need to go and travel alone, discover yourself and find out what you want. Because there's so many people in the way we live today, there's so many people that really live according to what others expect from them, and they don't even know what they want. And you say like, what do you want? And they say, I don't know. I never thought about that. No one really ever asked me, and I never really had a moment to think. And we live in this world where everything is required from outside, and people are getting married at ages because now it's time to get married, now it's time to study, but we don't really ask. And I actually go into one of my chapters, one of my favorite chapters is called "You Are What You Think," and it's written "You are what you eat," and then "eat" is crossed out and it's got "think" next to it. Yeah, I liked that. And it's really about, like, do we have the courage to be who we really are and not live a life that was programmed by someone else or kind of dictated by someone else? And it's not about becoming a rebel, but it's really about getting a deeper connection with yourself and finding out what is it that you really want. Like, what are your true desires? What are the things in your life that really, really, really would make you happy? Because, I mean, Steve Jobs or all these really successful, rich, famous people around the world could tell you that they had a plan and they thought that would make them happy. And suddenly, that wasn't what would make them happy. And we live by these ideals created by society of, "I want to have a family. I want to have 3 children. I want to have a good job." And then you get there and you're like, "Well, I'm not happy. What's next?" Happiness, I think, is really like, really when your life is in tune and in line with your essence, with your true being. And when you're living according to your, you know, why you came here to live, like you're living in accordance to your essence. I think that is true happiness. So I think it's a whole journey in itself to find out what it is that we really like. And traveling alone, coming back to our conversation, traveling alone really helps you find a little bit better what that is. But it's a constant journey as well, just because, I mean, what I wanted in my 20s is, is not what I want now. It's a constant kind of realization, and it's— we kind of owe it to ourselves to constantly reinvigorate what it is that we are wanting out of life, because, you know, life changes. Life is really fast-paced as well. I mean, there's so many people in the last 3 or 4 months that have suddenly had to slow down and suddenly gone, wait a minute, I always wanted this really high-powered job, but now I'm actually getting to spend time with my children or be able to exercise more, or I've realized I can work from home and I don't need to spend 3 or 4 hours traveling. And, you know, we can change all the time. We are not set in stone, and we don't need to follow the herd either. Exactly. I think that's, that's something that's really hard for people to realize, and it's uncomfortable to not follow the herd. Because you need to be brave and courageous, and not all of us are ready to be brave and courageous. I mean, there's, there's a writer that I love, and that you're on— we're on the book, on the book club podcast, so I might as well bring it up. But there's one of my favorite writers, his name is Ken Robinson. He is an amazing writer and talks about creative schools, and he talks about how in school we're not encouraged to study or to do things that we're not good at because we're graded on our grades. Like, so we're evaluated by what grades we get, and if we don't get good grades, then that's bad. So that means if you didn't know how to do something and you're good at it, you should stick with it because that means your average is going to be high. So there's a kind of an in— a kind of a subtle, unconscious, non-encouraging— it doesn't encourage us to try something new because we might get a bad grade, and that would be bad. And that's something that kind of flawed with the system, and that we're not kind of encouraged in our childhood, and then later in life that affects us as well, to try things that we're not good at. And that too, then we don't get a chance to discover things that we might love because we haven't tried it. Well, exactly. How do you know unless you go out of your comfort zone what is better for you unless you try it? I mean, better to have, you know, it's a famous saying, better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all. It just opens up your world to so much more. I like, I'm really into analogs and giving kind of visual images, and I always use this one to describe that. Like, imagine you're sitting on the beach and you're looking at the water and you're like, oh, that looks really good, that water looks so nice, I'd love to go, no, but I'm sure it's going to be too cold, or I'm sure I don't know how to swim and get enough, get out of it, or you have all these fears, so you actually never go in the water and you live your life on the beach looking at the sea, but you never touch the water. And that, if you think about that, that's like really sad. Like, how could you sit on the beach all day for so many years and never just, just touch it with your toe? So I think a lot of us, like, we have all these ideas of what the water is going to be like, what its temperature is going to be like, what the experience is going to be like, and we kind of like have already set it out for ourselves, like, oh yeah, that's not for me. But rarely do we actually just go in and touch the water and really feel, okay, What does this feel like? And not look at anyone while we're doing it. Just like, how does this feel for me? Not how does it look for someone else to see me doing this. I think that's— I, I like using analogies. I think it helps us to experience the, the senses, the sensation of doing something. I do actually, when I come across something that I suddenly feel the fear and I think, oh, actually I'm a little bit scared to try this, even if it's diving or something, then I think this is why I like to do things on my own, because if I realize there's something I'm scared of and I don't want to see somebody see me fail at it, I quite often just go off and do it on my own. Oh, interesting. And I actually get a little bit— I get butterflies in my stomach if I'm not doing something that I'm scared of. I have to try and find a way to kind of get past that, otherwise I feel like I'm being held back. But I am quite stubborn. Amazing, that's great. That's, that's super exciting. That's a good place to get to. Like, if you don't do something that you're scared of, you get butterflies. And interestingly, you said, uh, if you just go back to— you said that you started traveling on your own when you were 13. Isn't that when you first started losing your eyesight? Um, yeah, it is actually. It's funny. Um, so just to be clear, I didn't lose my eyesight completely, but I, I lost it to a rare condition that I can only see my— I only have peripheral vision. So I, like, at 13, 14, I couldn't read books at school anymore. Which was really, really tough. And I went through high school and university without reading a book, which was really, really tough. So yeah, I did start losing my eyesight at that time, and it was very— it was a really scary time because no one knew what I had, and doctors didn't know what I had. And it was— my mom kept on taking me out of school, and I just told her at one point, I was like, Mama, I don't want to lose I don't want to be taken out of school to be told that I don't know, no one knows what I have. Like, I need to stay in school because I was studying before the digital era. So books were all in print and there wasn't like much information on the net. And I was like, I need to be in class to listen to the teachers so that I can hear what they're saying because I can't read the book if I miss class. And so I didn't. I only got diagnosed when I was 17 after graduating high school. And moving to Madrid. But it was a really tough time of my life, and I guess I've only had to start remembering it now because of publishing the book. So my publishers, a year ago, they asked me if I could please write more about this experience of my life. I always thought I didn't have a story. You know, I thought, "Oh, people write books and they usually have like this story to tell." And I was like, "I don't really have a story. I just love teaching and I love spreading like magic.". And I think being healthy is magical and I just want more people to be healthy. I want everyone to feel amazing, feel so excited about life the way I do. And I just wanted to spread that. And then they were like, your story is quite interesting. We want to hear more about it. And I was like, what story? And, and I actually had to go and do a little bit of therapy to understand that I was— wasn't like any kind of strange. It was really cool bodywork. Sessions, and I realized that I had kind of been in denial since I was a teenager of not being able to see well. And I guess it, it had me survive through teenager times because I just, I, I was courageous and I just felt like there was nothing wrong with me. And it's given me the, the strength to kind of be the warrior that I had to be But it's been a hard journey talking about it, even on public kind of big things. You know, it's always been something very dear to me and like kind of dear to me in the sense like private and only my really my close friends know and they know that I can't recognize them from far away. And as I traveled and as I met people, I had to be more open about it. But it's taken me— it's been an interesting journey to have to talk about it to people on such an open level. It's been quite incredible. The thing is, I mean, I understand this so much. I mean, there was a book that I wanted to write, and I thought, right, we're all in lockdown, there's time for me to write this book. But it's one of those ones where you've got to dredge out kind of everything that you've gone through. And I was like, I can't do this in lockdown. People are struggling in lockdown as it is, better not to dredge up the past. And although it can be cathartic, I mean, it is Quite a journey, isn't it, to kind of talk about something that back when it was happening, until you understood it more, that must have been scary as hell. Yeah, and it was. Like, I just was— I was responding to a paper interview for a magazine in the US just a few weeks ago, and the first question was like really kind of direct, and as I was responding, I started crying. I started getting tears in my eyes, and I was like, oh my God. This isn't as easy as I thought it. In the book, I talk about it a little bit because it refers like it's part of the journey of having people realize that everything is challenging and that we shouldn't be afraid of our challenges. So when it's appropriate, I discuss it, but I've never really talked about it this kind of directly. And it also made me realize that like at the age of as a teenager, It's a difficult age as it is without any kind of extra issues. Being a teenager is tough. You know, you've got so many hormones going on and life kind of changes. Suddenly you're attracted and there's attraction and there's strange things going on and kind of having this all happen at the same time. I guess a lot of— I didn't know what was happening. I didn't know how much sight I was losing. So it was really weird. Like, I would walk on the street and people I wouldn't see them. And then the next weekend I'd be out and I'm like, oh, don't I know you? And they'd be like, well, you didn't see me the other day on the street. Like, they were angry with me and thought I was arrogant and rude. And I was like, what, really? On the street? And I was like, oh, oh, probably didn't see you. And then I started— like, I had to learn this really tough way that I was not seeing people. So it was really tough, um, in that way. And if I look back, I think like, oh, poor, poor little Donna, that that didn't have anyone tell her what would happen or what she was going to lose sight in. It just happened to me firsthand, and I kind of had to deal with it. But it really brought out a warrior in me, and I was really lucky to have a mom. My mom is incredible, and she kind of— she took me outside one day and she said, "Dana, what's that?" And I said, "That's a tree." And she said, "What's that?" And I pointed to different things, and it was the sky or the mountain or the sea or the grass or a bird. And she's like, "What are these things?" And I answered her, and she looked at me, and she's like, 'Anna, you see everything you need to see, okay?' And she's like, 'Everything else is not important in life.' And I was like, 'Okay.' And she kind of gave me this feeling that I had everything I needed inside of me and I shouldn't feel like less. And I guess that really kind of gave me some strength. But I really decided at some point that my eyesight would not change my path. It would— if anything, it would give me a new vision of life. And I think it did. I think it gave me a new perspective and I think perhaps I could say that it gave me a really different perspective. I see the world differently than everyone else, and that's a fact. But my perspective on health and vitality and wellness and all of this, I think, has a little bit— has been molded and has been kind of created upon the simplicity of how I see the world. I kind of simplify everything. Well, you do hear about when people either lose or have an impaired kind of one of their main senses, it forces you to kind of create a different route. And I mean, the book is so inspiring, not just because of that, but just because you kind of, you take anything positive and you absolutely run with it. And one of the things that I did really absolutely loved is— I mean, sometimes when things happen to us, we kind of learn a little bit more about other people and the generosity of other people, especially again with COVID you know, we've seen some incredible people out there do some really nice things for other people. But when you said that you had to ask for help and learn that it's not a weakness, especially when you're going through university and you couldn't read any of the books and so it's a little bit more challenging, when you learn to ask for help and realize it isn't a weakness and you suddenly realize that people do want to help you have the opportunity to see a lot better side of people as well. Do you not agree? Yeah, I'm getting goosebumps as you say that. I'm like, oh, like, I, I know, I, I remember being kind of nervous to ask for help. And then when people have enough, like nowadays everyone is so independent, you know, like if you need anything you just look on your phone and it's created a kind of a distance between people. There's not a lot of connection. Like if you're in the car and you're lost, in the past you'd roll down your window and ask someone, you know, where is this street? Nowadays, no one talks to anyone. Everyone looks everything up online, even if it's a restaurant. You know, in the past, you'd ask like the local person, like, oh, what's a good restaurant to go to? Nowadays, you know, everything's online. And I think it's quite incredible when you do ask for help and someone is— well, first of all, they're confused why I need that help because they're like, the street name is right in front of you. And she's like, oh, I can't see well. And it really does open something special, like people you see a part of them and they actually get really happy and they smile and they're like, "Oh, if you need anything else." And that has kind of opened— like, kind of warmed my heart to think, "Wow, there are so many nice people in the world and we should connect more in that sense." You know, we've become so independent in asking for help. It's like the last thing someone wants to do is, "No, no, no, don't roll down the window. I have it on my phone. Don't ask them the way." We can look it up on Google. Well, that's the thing, isn't it? You know, if you want to find a decent restaurant, you go to a different country, you don't even go on TripAdvisor or anything like that anymore. You just go on Instagram and type in the place and the kind of cuisine you want and you see what comes up. Oh my God. Yeah, I'm still so like, I love talking to locals, so I'd be like, I'll ask the local, like, like the person in a restaurant. I'm like, where do you go to eat? And they're like, oh, this restaurant down the road. You know, like, where do the locals eat? And that's always what I want to know. So I always ask locals. But yeah, like, you know, I still have that issue and we're like somewhere, I'm like, oh, let's ask the way. And they're like, no, no, I have a phone. I'm like, but let's talk to someone locally. Like, it's such an experience. You see, I see, I love that. And I used to do, I mean, quite often when I go on holiday with my kids or my ex or whatever, and, um, we'd quite often, I'd be like, right, I'm gonna go and speak to a lot of people and then I'm gonna find out where we should go out for dinner. Then we'd go out for dinner and then we'd be sitting outside in the restaurant. I think one time it was on Huntington Beach, we came past and these 3 guys went, Hazel, you took our recommendation, well done, I hope I'm enjoying it. And like, my kids are going, "Mommy, how do you know that guy?" I'm like, um, you know, and like, but this— but I do the same. Like, my kids are learning it as well. I took them to Vietnam— no, actually, well, I've taken them to Vietnam as well, but I took them to Thailand, and they were like, "Well, how do we know if this food's going to be all right for us?" I said, "Well, sweetheart, they're happy to teach you Thai. Just ask the things that, you know, you're not quite sure about, or asked for certain phrases, and they learned how to say, 'Is it spicy?' in Thai, and all these different pieces. And now they go somewhere and they are not scared of going up to anybody in a different language and just trying to work their way through. And it's the confidence of it, isn't it? And it's just, you experience so much more, and, you know, people are kind of drawn to you as well when you want to actually incorporate yourself in a particular culture rather than just, you know, going to Spain and finding out where the nearest egg and chips is. Yeah, and I think, I think the thing that we are as a global community, like, every day we're getting more connected on the internet. You were like the most connected the world has ever been, yet we are the most disconnected the world has ever been. On a human level, I think we are the most disconnected ever. And that brings me like, so I think what is so amazing about all that you're talking about is that it actually, it's about connection. People want to feel connected, but they don't even know. And this brings me to the first chapter of my book, which is the foundation of everything. People ask me like, okay, so how can I be healthier? You can't really do anything if you don't get to know your body a little bit better because there is no diet. That fits all, and every single body is so different. And the only way you're going to really find health and vitality in your body and in your mind and in your own self is if you can get to know yourself better so you can know what the language of your body is and learn to communicate with it better. And that's, that's why I wrote my first chapter that it's called— it is the foundation of everything, which is called Listen to Your Body.. And I give you tools on how to listen to your body and how to understand the language of your own body, because it's so unique and it's so specific. And then once you understand that, then you can start your journey. And it's kind of like you need to have the communication to understand. You need to know how to drive a car before you drive it. One of the things that I actually highlighted is that you say there is no one right answer. Yeah. Where you live, what you do, what naturally grows around you, and what's available to you needs to influence, you know, the needs of your body and what you have access to and what you choose to eat. And I love it that you point out that we are all unique. Not everybody can have a plant-based diet. Not everybody should be cutting out this food. And, you know, it's— we are all completely different. I did actually— I was I was having a bit of a social distancing drink yesterday with a friend of mine, and I was telling her about the book, and I said it's not about cutting things out. Sometimes it's just about trying to eat a particular food at a different time when your body can cope with it, maybe not late at night. And I told her about the section in your book when you're talking about dairy farming and how these cows are injected, that they're— they're kind of impregnated and then pumped full of hormones, and the milk then that comes out is full of hormones, and the calves that are born aren't using their mother's milk and all this stuff, and it's so incredibly toxic and not natural. And she's like, I drink so much milk. Oh my God, I think I've been poisoning my body for the last 5 years. And literally she just She went off, she went off to go and get herself a little drink, and she came back and she went, I've just sat in my kitchen and went, I've been an idiot. Oh, well, don't, don't call yourself an idiot if your friend is listening. Please don't call yourself an idiot. Like, no, that's what she said about herself. She goes, of course I drink way too much, and the more I drink, the worse my skin is. I'm gonna cut it out and see what happens. I said, well, you know, I'm, I'm gonna send you a link to Donna's book, but There's so much common sense. But, you know, you have even said, you know, if you love carbs, don't cut them out, just have them earlier on in the day. You know, there's different ways for everybody. You know, it's definitely like for everyone that's listening, my, my biggest kind of my biggest motto is extremism is not the answer. And it's really about finding balance and it's about finding your freedom. In the way that you live. So instead of being a slave to a concept that you have in your head, like, I'm going to be vegan now, or I love ice cream and I'm never cutting it out, or I love meat and it's going to be part of my life forever. Take all those concepts out of your head and just try and find out what your body actually likes. And if your body doesn't like something, it doesn't mean you have to cut it out forever. But maybe it means that you're going to eat less of it and that, like, for example, like, you know, let's say, what's your friend's name, Hazel? Kev. Kev. Hi, Kev. Hope you're listening. So imagine Kev, like, finds out that her skin really doesn't do well with milk, which is probably what she's going to find out because I've had millions of people completely undo acne by cutting out milk. And I have a story in the book about that. But let's say her skin doesn't do good with milk and her body's like, no thanks, we don't want the milk. But Kef really loves milk. So she's like, okay, I'm going to find a way that I'm going to have like milk once a week and it's going to be like a ritual and a huge, like a party. And it's going to be like a whole feast event. Like, it doesn't mean you have to cut it out forever, but you need to find ways to be kinder to your body. Because what if your body doesn't want it? Then what part of you does want it? Is it your mind that wants it? Is it an idea in your head? Does it come from an emotional story that, you know, mother's milk, and my family loved milk, and my grandparents drank milk, and that's part of my lifelong concepts in my head. So where does the idea come from? If your body's really clear about it, like, okay, we don't want that, it doesn't— it's not good for us, or it doesn't do me good. If your body's telling you it, then what part of yourself still wants it? And I think, like, health and vitality is really a journey. Like, you don't have to cut something out tomorrow. But try and imagine that you can start like having a little bit less of it and see how your body reacts and see what your body says. And I do say there is no food that is forbidden unless your body says so. And then you have to find out, like you're saying, Hazel, you have to find out when is the best time. Like, I absolutely love ice cream. It's my favorite kind of fresh summer food. I can wake up sometimes and I'm like, I just want to eat something cold right now. And in Portugal, when I was living here, I was like, I was having a lot of difficulty finding ice cream that didn't have milk in it. And, and so, like, sometimes I'd have ice cream with milk, but then I had like a really, really strict rule, like, okay, I can have this and it doesn't affect my body if I have it before 3:00 or before 6:00. And just like you're saying, there are ways that you can find out what works best for your body. So maybe you can't have that. On a late night, but if you have it earlier in the day, maybe it doesn't affect you the same way. And it's really a journey. It's about finding— and it's not about becoming perfect tomorrow. It's about the journey that you take. And today you're going to find an alternative for tomorrow, and tomorrow the alternative might not work for you, and then you'll find another alternative, but that could be 3 years down the line. And so you don't have to stress about that. You just think about, what am I going to do tomorrow? What's the better thing I'm going to do tomorrow? And it's about doing something better each day or each year or each month, however it is that you take your journey to make. Yeah, completely. And just while you were saying that, I was just— it reminded me of a section in your book where you said, because there'll be people listening and going, come on, it's milk, we've been drinking milk for years, for centuries, you know, whatever, why all of a sudden is meat bad for it? Why is this bad for us? And it's not, it's not that we've just suddenly developed an intolerance. It's because it is manufactured differently. It is pumped full of vitamins for mass production. So it's— that's, that's the problem with it. I mean, the more natural a product is, which is predominantly what your book is about as well, you know, the less issues we're going to have. But there are a lot of people just who are we need to demystify some of the rules around eating and what we put in our body and why it can be a problem. It's, it's really nice what you're bringing up because it's one of my issues. Like, so basically for all those people, it says my grandparents ate it. So I start the chapter Love Real Food saying my grandparents ate it, so why can't I? Why can't we just eat what our grandparents ate? What's all the fuss about? And I really go into detail in that chapter about It's not the product. Whole milk is still a whole food. It's still amazing, like real milk that came from a cow that lived in the grass field and enjoyed his life. But what we do to milk nowadays is— and we find out, and I take you through the process. And if you're scared, just take it like, take a deep breath and relax, because the best thing about this book is it always gives you a solution. There's no dead end. So you always have a solution and there's always going to be a fun solution. I have 3 mantras which I live by, and the first is life is joy. So it always has to be— it always has to be fun. And there's no dead end of like, okay, now you can't— now you can't do the thing that you love most in your life or you can't eat this. Now there's no rules. You make your own rules. It's not a religion. Being healthy is not a religion. So it's really about how you want to play it for yourself. You make the rules. You can read the book however you like. I've got a little part in the intro, like, how you— how to read the book, and you can choose which way you read the book. You can choose which chapter you begin with. You're like, okay, I don't want to hear— I don't want to hear about milk for now. I'm going to start with something else. It's really about how you want to take it, and you're kind of like the boss. And, and I actually have a part that says, you the boss. Like, you are the boss of your own life. And when you start realizing that, your life actually will become much better. Because you'll realize that you actually have control over yourself. So when you start realizing that, you're like, "I don't feel good right now." You can change that. And of course, everything takes the initial effort, but because we're creatures of habit, that's just in the beginning. And once our body feels better, it's just your mind that you have to train. And then we have tricks. There's tricks in the book. Every single chapter has a practical part, has a solution, has tricks. How do you trick your mind? You know, how do you trick your mind out of needing what it thought it needed when your body's already happy? Your body's like, "Yeah, we don't need that." So it's like, you know, you can still have your cappuccino with almond milk or with another kind of milk. But one of the best things to remember is don't have that— to not have the resistance of, "I know that," or, "I've already heard of that," and, "I know." There's always something you can learn, and there's always a new perspective and new things. So be open. It's your best asset is to be open and to just be curious and be like, oh, there's maybe something new that I can learn here. So even if you've heard something before, because milk has been— this talk about milk has been around for so long, but it's still, still so not— people are still drinking it so much. And it's not about that it's bad, like Hazel, like you were saying. It's really about understanding what happens to it and what is the kind of the life the life of the little milk that we drink and what happens to it. And like, oh, do I want to put something good in my body, or do I want to put something that's been treated so badly into my body? And those are the kind of questions that we need to start asking ourselves, because it really makes a difference on how you feel, you know. Sorry, uh, yeah, we just need to educate ourselves a little bit more. And this is, this is just what Shine Brighter is about, and it's You know, we can just take very small steps. And as I said, it's not about going onto a plant-based diet. If you love meat, then just eat it a bit less and then spend a little bit more when you do and actually get something that really is grass-fed, not just grass-fed once, you know, once a year or something. And just find out a little bit more about— I mean, if something's ridiculously cheap, there's a reason for for it. And I think one of, one of the things that absolutely shocked me— blueberries in muffins. Petroleum, really? Yeah, well, we have to be careful because we— this is like an international book. So that, yes, that happens in those muffins that are like packaged for like 3 years. They have like a lifespan of 3 years. You know, a lot of bakers make their blueberry muffins, so I'm not dissing that at all. But do find out about packaged foods and what kind of what is in it. Like, a muffin that lasts for 3 years is dubious, you know. If it's got blueberries in it— blueberries hardly last for 5 days in your fridge. Yeah, well, exactly. And, and the thing is, there are really helpful hints and tips as to what chemicals to look out for, and vitamins, and, and different names that we really don't know what they mean. And you kind of point those out and make life a little bit easier. And, you know, we don't have to cut everything out. It's just— but when you start making slightly better choices and you realize just how much better you feel. I mean, I have the same with IBS. I cut out certain foods and I don't like cutting things out. But what I did is rather than looking at what I couldn't have, I looked at what I could have and just packed my fridge full of the stuff that I could have. So I just reframed the whole situation a little bit more and I feel so much better. Yeah, there's a really cool concept that I bring in that's called crowding out, and it's a great way to trick your mind because just like you're saying, Hazel, so instead of focusing on what you can't eat and by all means, the book will never tell you what you can't eat, it's always a choice that you make. So please don't be scared. Like, you know, it's not about— it's really about becoming conscious. And becoming aware, like, if you don't feel good, it's not better to be in ignorance because you'll never be able to change that. How amazing is life designed that you can actually change the way you feel? So we are not victims of what we feel and we are not victims of our life. We really can make a difference. And we're talking about tiny differences. A lot of people have said, oh, you know, but being healthy costs more money. Well, it doesn't. You know, if you can't start with the food, start with your household household products. You know, vinegar is the cheapest thing in the world, and it's a better cleaner and non-toxic compared to all the household products people spend so much money on. I'm so shocked when I went to like check things out, you know, like a little bath, a toilet scrubber product costs like €5 or, you know, £5. So expensive, all these household products. So if you're— you can— the book really gives you the chance to start where you feel ready to begin with. And you don't have to begin with food. You can begin with any other area of your life. You can begin with starting to understand more about how your body eliminates toxins, which is one of my favorite chapters. It's called Take Out the Trash Every Day, Chapter 9. And it talks about how important it is to stimulate our elimination pathways. We have pathways in our body that remove toxins from our body. And those pathways are so important that we're kind of like, if you imagine a river, that we ensure that those rivers are flowing very, very well all the time, and not like once a month or once a year, like people do detoxes once a year or twice a year. It's about ensuring that they are always flowing every day. So you can eat toxic food sometimes, but because your rivers of, of toxic elimination are flowing so well, you actually don't get the havoc of what it's causing. And so those are ways of starting as well. Like, you don't have to start with food if it's something that you don't feel ready to start with. There are so many different ways. The chap— the book is filled with chapters coming from different angles, and it's, it's from the way you think to the way you eat, the way you play, to how you live your life. And so it's, it's got really practical tips and makes everything kind of fun and exciting rather than making you feel like you're doing something wrong. We only have one chapter in the whole book that actually talks about cutting out food, which is called Cut the Crap. But all the other chapters are about what you can do and what you— what is amazing for your body and how amazing it is and gets you excited about why it's so amazing. But yes, what I was saying about crowding out— crowding out is an amazing approach to focusing on what you can eat. So like at a meal, like you can just have all the normal dishes that you usually have.. But in the beginning of the meal, make it a point to have like a big salad in the beginning of the meal with an amazing salad dressing, and then you'll be less hungry for the rest of the meal. So it's not about taking things off the table, but rather putting things on the table and kind of like, for example, if you're at a cocktail, which is not going to happen so soon with COVID but if you're at a cocktail event, like have some olives and some lighter things first and fill your stomach before you see all the shrimp and all the other stuff that you get and all the cheese and everything, and then you'll be like, okay, I can still eat the cheese, but just I'm not going to be eating that much because I'm quite full already. Or have a soup before your massive meal. Or like, at home growing up, we always had salad as the first meal. It was like a starter was always salad. And it wasn't like we had a starter, but salad was put on the table when you sat down, and you have to eat your salad. We were so hungry that we would eat the salad And my parents were smart. They made amazing salad dressings. So that is where the secret is when it's about salads. I love salad dressings and you can make the most delicious ones. And if you're curious, you can come up on my social media page. We always make yummy salad dressings. And basically you put that on the table with your kids and they kind of eat some salad or some tomatoes or whatever.. And then the rest of the food will come in and there'll be less space for it. So there's more examples on how to do that in the book. But it's a great way to focus on what to eat rather than what not to eat, because we're not restricting anyone. No one's in restriction. You are your own boss. You actually can eat anything you want. And actually talking about this, there's an interesting kind of paradigm shift that I also have experienced in my life and with all the clients I work with. Moving from I want to but I can't to I can but I don't want to. And so we're gonna move towards like saying I can eat whatever I want, but I choose to eat what I want. So I don't want to eat that, for example, but I can if I want to. I can eat anything I want. Can't you? You can eat anything you want, right? Yeah, I just gotta— I change my narrative all the time as to kind of suit, you know, what I need to hear. I mean, I do, I am quite healthy, but I do, I'm very much, if I've had a bad food day, you know, I know I've got to be out and about and taking in my vitamin D and doing walking, running, cycling or whatever. And it's sometimes it's just about balance. You don't have to be, you know, just plant-based and restricting yourself. You need to do what's right for you. But I love changing the narrative. You know, it's, um, you've just gotta, you've gotta flip your scenarios around and, and speak to yourself in a positive way rather than making you feel like you're missing out on something. Don't you agree? Sure, completely, completely, completely, completely. 100%. Now, um, a bit of one of the sections that has absolutely blown my mind, um, is the science behind some of our addictions. Now I'm talking, you know, how the color red and yellow spark certain receptors. Wow. Yeah. And I— that kind of— I was like, right, yeah, Nando's, McDonald's, all of it, and how a lot of science, a lot of the knowledge we have about food is funded by people who benefit from it being seen in a certain slant. And there are— it's a little bit scary how we actually crave. The amount of times I hear people say, I really need a Nando's right now, or, you know, maybe I'm a bit hungover, I really need a McDonald's. It's the sugar, it's the chemicals, it's the rubbish that's in inside, isn't it? Yeah. So just to put all the reader— like, the listeners here— so there, there's a lot of studies that have shown, and these are facts, that a lot of the— there's food engineers, just like there's an automobile engineer. There are engineers that understand how chemistry— how, how food plays up in your brain. And there's an amazing study that has shown, like, with rats, um, rats that were pre-exposed to cocaine and became addicted to cocaine. Is that okay to talk about here? Yeah, yeah, go for it. So that were— they were pre-addicted to cocaine, and then they were put into an environment where they could continue, um, like eating, consuming cocaine, or they were exposed to the option of having sugar. But sugar was much harder to get to. They had to go through like kind of little labyrinth to reach the sugar. And out of them, all the rats, 97% of them or something like that, but almost all of them chose to go to get sugar instead of cocaine when they were already addicted to cocaine. Yeah, so this, this shows us that sugar is maybe even more addictive, but just as addictive at least, and maybe even more addictive than cocaine. Sugar lights up our brain like cocaine does, or even stronger. So it is very, very addictive, and it's very hard to get off it, and Sugar is used in so much junk food and so much packaged food to create an addictive response to it. So when we go, for example, the first two— I, it's funny because, you know, those, those blocks of stock, stock blocks that you can buy, like, to cook with, you know, a lot of people are not really comfortable cooking, they use them to make their food taste better. And now there's like a whole campaign because MSG is becoming like really known, and people are like, oh, we don't have MSG in our stock blocks. And then you go to read the ingredients and the first ingredient is salt and the second is sugar, or it's vice versa. But sugar and salt are naturally what your body— we were, we're animals from the jungle. And if you imagine, like, in the jungle, your body is created to look for salty or sweet. That's how you know there's calories and you want calories if you're in the jungle and you don't know, you don't have a supermarket. So our body is naturally looking, and if you hit something salty or sweet, your body has a response in the brain that goes ding, ding, ding, ding, like, excellent, continue. That's what you need. And nowadays, like, in nature, if you think of it, there's nothing that's that sweet or that salty. There's only sweet fruits that come up in the summer when you need that sugar because it's so hot. It reduces the heat in your body. But if you think about it, there's nothing in nature that is that sweet or that salty. And what has happened is scientists have basically cheated when they've made food. They make food that are unnaturally really sweet or really salty. And so we're obviously going to be attracted to those foods because that's what our brain is telling us to go get. Our brain is like, ding, ding, ding, ding. That's what you need. That's what you need. You never, you never know. We might have a drought. Like, it still thinks— your body still thinks you live in a jungle or that you live in the forest and that tomorrow there might be no food. So your body's always ready for a drought or starvation mode. And so it's going to always tell us. And what we need to realize is we need to become aware of that so we can be like, okay, my body wanted that. But now if I remove it and your body gets back to balance and that's the most important is we will when we get back to balance, then we're going to start understanding what it is that our body really wants. I have a lot of people that are like, okay, so I've cut this out. And now when I eat it again, I feel really nauseous. What do I do? I'm like, well, your body told you. Like, do I still need— like, there's nothing I'm going to tell you that your body is not going to tell you. And that's why I don't see myself as like— I really see myself as an educator. I don't like telling people what to eat. I like inspiring you to find out what's best for you. That's really, I think, what it's about. It's empowering people and making them realize that you are magical. You have all the answers inside of you. We just need to have the courage to actually want to see the answers. And sometimes our mind feels safer in the comfort zone, even of a disease. That's the scary part, you know. Like, I have people that, "Oh, well, I'm just going to stay sick. I prefer to eat my steak every week." But your steak is what's causing your illness. "Oh, it's all right. I don't mind." And that's when it gets scary, when we become so attached to our discomforts. Our headaches or stomach pains. So I think the first step is really about realizing, like, what do we want? What's important to us? And do we really want to feel better? And do we believe that it's possible? It's, it's so incredibly scary that, you know, we do get used to something and we're, we're scared to go out of our comfort zone. I mean, I have a friend with diabetes and she's not used to eating bread and things like that. She's, she's She's, you know, she's youngish. Well, she's very young. She wants to, you know, just have a bit more wine and to kind of eat a little bit more junk food and whatnot. But she's not eating the things that are going to keep her healthy. And I actually took her around an organic loaf at the weekend because she'd had a few hypos and she texted me this morning and said, I was having a hypo, then I remembered you brought me some bread because you know that I'm supposed to be eating more bread, and my levels are going back up again. Thanks, Hazel. I was like, oh, we just, we just don't listen to our bodies sometimes, and it's either laziness or convenience, and you know, it's absolutely bonkers. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure that if I found out that I was allergic to cheese, I don't know what I'd do. I love cheese. Yeah, I do understand the concept of being scared of cutting something that you absolutely adore out, but you know, it's more addictive to feel better when you start realizing how much better you feel. Yeah, exactly. And just what you were saying then about all the, you know, the food engineers that are out there. I quite often, you know, when I meet people when I'm out on my dog walk, I see people that I know and they know that I read a lot and I have this show and and the blog and everything. And over the last week or so, people have been saying, right, what have you been reading? Come on, give us some inspiration. And the one line that I've been telling everybody about, of, uh, in regards to this book, is, um, the one that you wrote, that is, the paradox is, is that currently there are more obese people suffering with malnutrition than there are starving people in the world. Yeah, it's quite scary, isn't it? I think about it, I've repeated that about 10, 15 times over the last week to people. Yeah, it's— it is scary. And, and think about it, we're also like the only animal in the whole kingdom of animals that actually consciously does things to ourselves knowingly that are harmful. It's bonkers, isn't it? Like, there is no— I mean, like, a tiger or a lion, even if they're starving, they will not eat a cadaver. Like, they won't eat a body that's, you know, a cheetah, um, a body that's been killed and that's a few days old. They won't. They won't go near it even if they're starving. Yeah, but, you know, likewise, I mean, the human race is supposed to be so incredibly intelligent, but we know full well when we open up that second bottle of wine, that it is not going to make us feel good, but we still do it, right? Yeah, that's why, that's why we need to learn. That's why the, the chapter 12 is actually— it's not all about food— is a great chapter to understand how we can reconnect. But I wouldn't— I actually don't talk about alcohol in the book, um, much because I think it's something that naturally comes after you start to create a better relationship with yourself. But it's It's always about coming back to yourself. And there's always like, we use food as a way of covering other things up. So when we start to actually— it's hard in the beginning because you need to be courageous. And how do you explain someone that's driving an old car that they could be driving a much more comfortable car without much more effort? And a lot of people are just comfortable in their old cars. Here I'm using the analogy of car with the body, but we are— we could feel so much. What is feeling better? What does that mean to people? I think a lot of people think, oh, health is not for me, but health is really— what does it mean to each of us, each and every one of us? Is health being able to run your business and think straight? Is health being able to be super alert and like clarity in our mind for 10, 15 hours a day and being able to go to work and coming home and being with your kids and Having fun and then still being available for your husband because you have energy and you feel good? Is it just being in a good mood all day? Is it having smooth skin and strong hair? I think a lot of people don't realize what health could mean to them, and they think like health is something about disease. But health is so much more than just not having a disease, which is bad as it is. But chronic discomfort is so, so, so alive around everyone. That if we think our life without physical and mental discomforts, what that would be like. I think one of the first steps is really understanding what health means to us and how— what it— what color is it? What does it mean in my life, day-to-day life? What would it mean if I had more health? Does that— does that make any sense to you, Hazel? Absolutely perfectly. And I think to help all the listeners kind of understand and get involved as well, we just need to remind them they should go onto your website site, it's the Danah Mor, which is D-A-N-A-H-M-O-R.com, and just follow you, not physically, just on other social media channels, and to get the book and find out everything about it. I mean, honestly, we've got a couple of minutes left of today's show. I cannot believe we have just raced through and I haven't got through hardly any of my questions. And before we finish today's show, I think I would like to know, what would be your 3 favorite tips on well-being? Hmm, that's tough. I think the first is to really start noticing how you feel throughout the day and understanding, like, do you feel low energy? Do you feel high energy? Are you clear? Are you irritated? Do you feel anger? And starting to understand how your body feels. And that is one of the best things that you can start to become aware of because then you can start connecting it to ways— everything you feel is a consequence of what's going on inside. And so that's like the first step to really understanding and unfolding a world that you can then control. I'd say that's the first tip. The second tip is be kind with yourself. So don't get angry at yourself if you do something that you know you're not supposed to do. So even I do things that I know I'm not supposed to do. And I don't— like, if I'm going to be on— if I'm on holiday and there's an ice cream shop and I really want to have an ice cream, I'm going to enjoy that ice cream. I'm going to enjoy it fully, 150%, and it is not going to make me feel bad at all. It's actually going to make me feel super delicious and exciting. And after, I'm going to drink water and I'm going to make sure that I'm not going to have any effects of it because I'm going to go for a walk or do things. So don't beat yourself up because you're not doing— you're not being perfect. There is no such thing as perfect. And So start slowly inside yourself and just start connecting to yourself and understanding what it is that you're feeling. Second, be gentle with yourself. If you do need a kick— some of us do need a kick up the arse sometimes, like, to get started— then do that, but don't beat yourself up. Don't be mean to yourself. Be kind. The third tip, I think— Unfortunately, we've come to the end. I've got about 30 seconds. I'd say eat locally, eat locally and seasonally. That's the third tip. Do you know what, I've thoroughly loved chatting to you, and we need at least another 2 or 3 hours. Thank you so much for joining us here at Women's Radio Station. So much. Have a wonderful day.