Get Booked – David Sinclair, Pop Rock Icons 121222

Well, another week is here and here is another episode of Get Booked with your host Hazel Butterfield. And I am such a huge book fan, so I absolutely love doing this show. Get Booked is all about talking to authors, chatting about anything and everything books related, and all the joy, enlightenment, and escape that good books can provide. Sit back and let us entertain you with a different guest each week, sharing who they are, what what they do and what inspires them. Today's book is Pop Rock Icons, a new book that illustrates two decades of the musical backbeat to history. A new hardcover book released on the 20th of November of this year is about to add its own lavish pictorial take on musical history. A fantastic coffee table book, the book Pop Rock Icons provides a compendium of beautifully presented photographs from the 1960s and the 1970s, an era when rock was the pop of the day. The fuse was lit by the Beatles with their Mersey Sound in Liverpool. In London, the Rolling Stones rocked the blues as if their lives depended on it. Then came the musical whirlwind of the Yardbirds, The Who, The Kinks, themselves heralding inventive prog rock bands like Pink Floyd, Genesis, and Yes, and heavy metal with bands like Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple. As the 1970s progressed, the androgyny of David Bowie and bands such as T-Rex took glam rock to the world. These two decades of freedom and creativity are captured in this book with photos by the best photographers of the day and enhanced with the writing of top French music writer Philippe Margottin and a foreword by British music journalist David Sinclair, who we'll be speaking to later on in the show. The authors: Philippe is a music specialist, novelist, consultant, and former editor of Universal Polygram kiosks He has written several well-regarded music biographies: The Rolling Stones, Radiohead, Amy Winehouse, just to name a few, and books about music including the internationally best-selling collection All the Songs. David has been a musician since the 1970s and a music journalist since the 1980s. As chief rock and pop correspondent of The Times of London and a contributor to Rolling Stone, Billboard, Q Magazine, and many others. He was fortunate to see and meet many of the bands and stars who came up through the London gig circuit of the 1960s. It's going to be an incredible chat, so keep on listening. First up, I've got a couple of book reviews to tell you about. There's some incredible books that are emerging on the scene, but let's get stuck in. Now, I'm I always like to start my book blogs with a fantastic quote, and the one that I loved for the latest collection of books is by Maya Angelou: "There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you." I'm sure there's many of you book fans out there that can definitely understand that feeling. And the first one I want to tell you about is last week's guest. A bit of a reminder: 39 1 by Rag Bear. The quest to find our perfect imperfect soulmate. Oh wow, what a challenge indeed. We have to kiss a lot of frogs to find our prince, supposedly, or more realistically, get smeared with bogeys and try and find good humor in the journey. Rach has decided that with a year to go until the milestone of Reaching 40, she will embrace dating without being picky. Give them all a go and see if she gets lucky. Will Rach find love, find herself, or just curate entertaining stories to tell her good friends on a Friday night? This is a very entertaining, if not quite cringy at times, journey through dating mishaps, human nature, and importantly, friendship. You can catch up with last week's author and many other guests that we've had on Get Booked if you pop on to womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked and on our SoundCloud. The next book I want to tell you about, The Satsuma Project by the incredible Bob Mortimer. I love his dry tone and northern sweary charm, the style of which is perfect for those who like an audible. Where he reads this book in his own unimitable way in which the book has been written. The plot itself is endearingly weird, as is his unique stream-of-consciousness relationship with the local squirrel, as you do, which in all honesty isn't too far off my own conversations with my beagle. This book is full of random characters, human nature, corruption, gangsters, and longing create this balls-out crazy book. You can find out more at hazelbutterfield.com. Then next up we have a slightly different turn for the incredible author Bryony Gordon with Let Your Hair Down. I may be 40, but I do love some YA fiction, and I love it that Bryony Gordon has dipped into this genre. Throw in an author whose adult fiction is right up my strasse and you get a winning combo. Barb, a 16-year-old influencer— sorry, creator— is ready to ditch school and start her incredible life using her unbelievably fortuitous hair to get her noticed on the latest social media platform. Showreel, a platform that professes to be more real than any of the others, where the fame will also bring the friendships she sorely needs after being ditched by her long-term friend. Then there is her aunt, who is also her guardian, and although she has incredible focus on supporting and directing her online success, she does, however, lack in any other real support that a 16-year-old needs, such as affection, parental nurturing, or ability to tell the truth. When we don't get our basic needs met and our authenticity gets lost, we will all crack at some point. That is Let Your Hair Down by Bryony Gordon. Another one I want to tell you about, something to put on your wish list is Only Love Can Hurt Like This by Paige Toon. It comes out in paperback on the 27th of April of next year. Wren has just been dumped by her fiancé as he has fallen in love with somebody else, and so she decides to escape to Indiana for a couple of weeks to see her somewhat estranged dad and stepfamily. Straight from one unrequited situation to another and another, potentially. Sometimes when we feel we are lost, we need to search for something, anything, to ignite our soul and feel a sense of belonging, opening ourselves up to something new or searching for those parts of ourselves that we had forgotten. However, as with most matters of the heart, Honest communication is key, but it's often hard to communicate what we can't even decipher and rationalize in our own heads and hearts. Love hurts for so many reasons. Life rarely goes to plan, and what we want to be to the ones we love is not always aligned with what we can be, and that hurts. This book is a beautifully written, bittersweet journey, and not just Wren the main character, but all those around her trying to find love, acceptance, and be the best they can be. I don't know about you, but I sometimes love just finding out about these books that are coming out and putting them on our wish list just to remind us of incredible things that are coming up and just to add to our ever-growing TBRs. Right, next up, as promised on Get Booked, we are going to be discussing pop rock icons, London's swinging '60s '70s, a fantastic picture book and coffee table book that I have been devouring over the last couple of weeks. It's written by authors Philippe Margottin and today's guest David Sinclair. Now, Pop Rock Icons takes us on the extraordinary world of London, England, at the time of the greatest counterculture upheaval the country has known. A real musical revolution that began at the beginning of the 1960s, led by the Beatles, further ignited by the Rolling Stones, and so many more. The incredible rise of rock music continued until the end of the 1970s when punk arrived and launched a new wave of DIY rebellion. In photographs which capture the spirit of the times, they rediscover the optimism of the Beatles, Beatles, the Stones' dark rhythm and blues, the energy of The Who, the innovation of progressive rock with Pink Floyd and Genesis, as well as the explosive heavy metal of Black Sabbath and Deep Purple. The '70s gave us the glam rock of T-Rex and the gritty pub rock of Dr. Feelgood, without forgetting the rock giants Led Zeppelin, Queen, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, and the unclassifiable David Bowie. What I love about these types of books are the nostalgic attributes. You start reading and looking at the iconic pictures and quotes, then disappear down a bit of a rabbit hole, Googling, reminiscing, and asking Alexa to play that tune. It's just— I've had an absolute joy working through it, and I'm sure you will too. And here joining us on the show, we have David Sinclair. Hi, how are you? Hello Hazel, very well. That's a very panoramic introduction to the, to the book, I must say. Very impressive. You're welcome. Do you know what? I've had, I get many books arriving on a daily basis to the house and my 16-year-old saw this one and he's like, okay, wow, and took it off and just devoured it. He's really into his music and actually there's quite this various concerts even in our local area with the Kinks and whatnot. And he just, he's loved working his way through it. And I think that just kind of shows you just how iconic this era is that you, you know, you've, you've got the 16-year-olds enthralled as well. So it's, uh, it's a cracking book. You must be extremely proud to be a part of it. Uh, yeah, delighted of course. And, uh, it's great to hear that about your son because I think in a lot of ways it is a very good sort of primer of that era, if you like. It kind of gives you an overview, but also a very good introduction to people that perhaps weren't— well, obviously, that most people, in fact, now, the '60s is a very long time ago, you know. You sort of forget somehow that it's, uh, it really is, um, 60 years ago, and, uh, that's a lifetime. Uh, so for a lot of people, it is something that you're passing on, really. And I think that's something of the spirit of this book, that, that that those of us that were there were pretty young at the time ourselves and are now not so young. But an awful lot of people are very interested in this music and the musicians that made it and would like to find out a bit more about it. And I think that's, that's one, certainly one part of the people that this book's very much aimed at. I think what is also great is that the kids these days, they seem to think that they invented being progressive. And as my son was looking through this book, sees some of the way that these incredible artists and icons are dressed. And it's— and I think there are so many modern musicians out there that have gone back to the '60s and '70s in their style, in the way that they dress. And I think it's nice for the kids to kind of realize that it's not new, you know, it was created back in the '60s and the '70s, and it's just been upcycled for the youth of today. I guess, like, you know, all of it's cyclical to some degree, isn't it? And I think that you could go back to my dad's era of the big bands and the, and the, and the, the whole Roaring Twenties when everything just sort of exploded in a kaleidoscope of what was at the time considered very outrageous behavior. Um, you know, that was another post-war period, uh, 100 years ago. And I guess the '60s did have a particular sort of, a particular sort of elements to it that were not able to be repeated. You know, it was a particular time of technological change, social change, um, and, you know, liberation, if you like, from a, from a period of very, very tough wartime and post-war austerity. And somehow it was a time, at the same time, when the technology was suddenly possible. You know, you had amplifiers, electric guitars. I mean, it was Cliff Richards' band The Shadows with Hank Marvin. Hank Marvin imported the first Fender Telecaster— Fender Stratocaster guitar from America. You know, that was the '60s or the late '50s when the very first electric guitar arrived in this country. I mean, think about that in terms of a revolution. And, you know, it's pretty impressive when you think about it. It's impressive. And also, there's more effort involved in the whole era as well. Because these days you can— I mean, as I said in my intro, if I want to listen to anything now, I ask Alexa, I put it on my phone, my iPad, any way, shape, or form. I can even just get in my car and ask my car to play something. It's so easily accessible. If you want to see a picture of somebody who you admire, you Google it. If you want to know anything about them, it's all readily accessible. Whereas before, you had to buy the magazines, you had to read the articles, and you had to wait for them to be published. And there was a little bit more excitement and a bit more of a journey involved as well. Well, that's right. It was an incredible effort to actually hear music in the '60s. There was so little of it. Well, popular music, but even any sort of music, you know. There was actually a thing on the radio called needle time, and this was a restriction on the amount of music of recorded music that you were allowed to play on the radio. And so, you know, once you'd used up your quota of needle time, as it was called, that is to say that your quota of recorded music that you were allowed to play, you could only then play live music, i.e., which was orchestras that were hired by the BBC or whoever. Or speech. So the idea that you could actually listen to music at any time— and of course, if you didn't have a radio, if you weren't listening to the radio, where else were you going to hear it? There was nothing on the television. TV didn't— wasn't on during the day. Uh, you— the only thing you could do was go out and buy the record. That was the only way to get hold of music in those days. And that wasn't altogether very easy, and it wasn't very cheap. You know, it cost money. And, uh, That's the magic of it, isn't it? Because when things are so readily accessible, there's no excitement in achieving listening to it when it's so easy to just have it at your fingertips. I think the, the nostalgic element of this book, it's reminding people of how they used to feel back in the '60s and '70s getting involved with something that you actually had to make an effort to get involved with. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't think we want to sort of— I mean, it's a marvelous thing. I sort of almost thank my— you know, you know, you thank your blessings every day for, for the, the likes of Spotify and the kind of access that you now have to music, which, which I'm still finding. If you go back, there's, there's now things available which you never heard at the time, even because they were too obscure and there was no way you would have got hold of them. Yeah, um, yeah, as you say, it was a tremendous time of exploration and excitement and just general sort of, uh, well, wonder, if you like, at the whole— as the whole thing exploded and expanded in ways that you just didn't know what was going to happen. I mean, now you know, you know what Jimi Hendrix is like and you know what he did, but back in 1966 when he showed up in London, no one had a clue. No, who the hell was this? And, and he came out and played pretty much— well, he played exactly as you see him now the footage on YouTube. But back then, no one had ever seen or even thought of anything like it. So it was an incredible— yeah, the excitement was pretty palpable and, and is of a different order, I guess, to, to what you have today. As you say, when it's part of— it's part of the cultural air that you breathe almost, you know. The music is everywhere, and, and, and, and, and it's great that it is. Let's not— you know, you don't want to sort of really I don't think anyone would want to go back to those days. No, no. It's an extraordinary, it's a very, very interesting period to focus on and to remind ourselves of. Do you know what's quite interesting? Whilst I was reading this book, I was born in the mid-'80s. I've always loved '60s and '70s. It was my dad's favourite music. Whenever we got in the car, you know, it was all the bands that are in this book. That we always used to play. So I know the music well, but I didn't live through the era. And as I was reading the book, I was constantly Googling, going, I want to find out, how old is he? When did he die? What did he do? What was his thing? You know, I kind of went on my own little research journey because it's one of those books that kind of inspires you to do so because of the way that the photography in this book is fantastic. But it ignites something in you because it's not the whole all singing, all dancing, money blaring here, there, and everywhere. There's a different kind of creative elements. Whoever put these pictures together, they must have thoroughly enjoyed doing this. But I think it's def— the style of photography is different to what you see these days, and it seems to be a bit more fun to look at? Well, I guess so. I don't know too much about where the photographs come from. I mean, Philippe Margotin did all that and, uh, put it all together and assembled it. What I would say is that I was looking through it, I was very impressed with the photographs he got because I hadn't really seen an awful lot of them before. I mean, they're familiar faces and they're familiar acts, but, uh, Often they're pictures that aren't very, you know, they certainly haven't been overused. I think some of them must be, you know, really quite rare because I certainly haven't seen some of these before. But yeah, also, I mean, it was a big thing getting a photograph of a star back in those days because you didn't have any iPhones or any, you know, there was no selfies going on. You had to have a, you know, hopefully a professional photographer or someone who knew what they were doing with a camera. And you had to get the group assembled, or whoever it was you wanted to take the picture of. And, uh, and the behind-the-scenes pictures that you got, uh, were really, really exciting, you know, because that wasn't something that you— that wasn't— again, it wasn't an everyday occurrence to get pictures left, right, and center. And I think some of them in here— yeah, I think it is a great collection of pictures, as you say. Yeah, definitely. I Now you have, um, you've had your own role in the era. I just want to point out to our listeners to pop on to davidsinclair4.com to find out a little bit more about you. But if you could tell us a little bit more about, um, your history, that would be incredible. Well, uh, to be honest, my— during the '60s and '70s, really, I was, I was at school and university, you know. I mean, I was, uh, I was a schoolboy, uh, just growing up in, in London, and, uh and thoroughly, you know, immersed in it from absolutely day one, I suppose you could say. From about— I guess I got my first record when I was about 10 or 11, maybe the Shadows or Cliff Richards song or something, I'm not sure. And then that was, you know, when the Stones and the Beatles came along, that was my moment, you know, just in my sort of 12, 13, 14 years old, which is, I think, when you make— you know, when music makes a really big impression on you. And I remember Jimi Hendrix first time I heard Hey Joe on the radio, I just, you know, flipped. It was incredible. And then saw him on Top of the Pops, and, and the same with the Stones and all the rest of it. So from there, I played in bands when I was at school, um, and we, we played all those songs, you know. We played the Hendrix songs and we played Cream and The Move and anything we could turn our hand to. And then when I got to uni again, I, I just, I spent most of my time playing in bands. I mean, when I should have been probably doing a bit more work. And then after that, I, I became a musician, uh, in London, uh, around the time of the punk period, punk era. I played a gig at the Nashville the night after The Police played there, and, um, I got hold of Sting's setlist, which he'd left stuck up on the side of the stage. And so then later on, I became a journalist, uh, after that, uh, I, I started writing about, uh, bands and music, as you know you do, a sort of side gig really at the time. And I got to be— I was lucky enough to become the, the music critic of the Times newspaper in London, which was a fantastic gig. And, uh, and I met a lot of these people after that, you know. In fact, I met Sting, and I, I showed him the set list. I said, is this yours? He said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He said it was his writing scrawled up. And, um, and so I then had a very lucky— you know, it was a great period again for me. So I, I, I then stopped playing for a while and became more of a full-time commentator, if you like, journalist, pundit, whatever. And, uh, and then, but I found my way back to music again of my own, uh, later on, uh, and, and now run my own band, the David Sinclair Four. And, uh, and I keep my hand in with, uh, you know, when I'm asked to do projects like this Pop Rock Icons book or whatever it might be, then I'm very happy to do a bit of writing as well. So it's a— it's been a charmed life, to be honest, Hazel. And, um, I can only say thank you to whoever— however it all panned out, it's been brilliant. But how actually did it pan out? How did this project come to you? Uh, well, I was approached by the publisher, Cheryl Robson of Supernova Books, who, uh, basically Philippe Margotin is a— he's a very well-respected, um, writer. He's written some, some real heavyweight books. I mean, literally heavyweight, like the things like the, the Every Song That the Rolling Stones Ever Recorded, um, you know, analyzed and discussed the story behind every song. I mean, it's a massive doorstopper of a book. And he's done that with Pink Floyd, and he's done it with, uh, other bands as well. And he's, he's a very, very, um, respected guy in the, in the, in the business. And so he published this book in France, I think, and Cheryl Robson of Supernova Books bought the rights for it and wanted to publish it in Britain and do an English publication of it, as it were. And so she asked me to write the foreword for it, which I was very happy to do, and just to, you know, introduce the book and recall a few of those moments back from those days in the '60s. So That's about the story of it as far as I'm concerned with this one. As for Philippe, I'm not sure what Philippe's up to. I think he's a bit— he seems to be a little bit unavailable right now. I think he's probably working on some other massive project. But anyway, I'm very happy to go out and talk about it for him. Well, so I was having a look. Now, this book was released on the 20th of November in the UK. But it's been— it was originally done in France. It's been translated into German. There's a couple of other languages as well that it's been translated to. It just shows how popular and how much need there is for it all over the place, even though, you know, it's heavily based on London pop rock. Well, it's interesting that, isn't it? I wonder why it started in France, if you like, because it's all very British British in its, uh, provenance. You know, all the bands and all the acts— well, with the exception of Jimi Hendrix, in fact, who obviously is a sort of, uh, he's a bona fide Brit, if you like, or, um, you know, he made his first impression in London, but obviously he was from America. But by and large, they're all British acts. And, um, so yeah, it's funny that it took a French guy to, uh, to lock onto it and, um, and And he did it in the first instance in France. But I think it was incredible. I mean, that is another thing about this whole period was it was an amazing time of exporting British music around the world. And, you know, in America they called it the British Invasion, all of this stuff. And it lasted from about '63 or '64 till '68 or '69 when British acts just ruled the world. You know, they ruled certainly in America. The, the Beatles and the Stones and all the rest of them were the key acts of that, of that decade, uh, and I guess in France and Germany and anywhere else as well. So it was a period of particularly when British music was, was totally key, I guess, to what was going on. Yeah, yeah, I, I think it is definitely— we don't see as many acts coming through from different European countries into the UK. So yeah, there definitely seems to be a dominating market ethos there. But I would, I would say that there's a reason for it. I mean, you can just look at this book. Have we seen any other books from different countries that display their contribution to pop and rock? Well, obviously rock and roll started in America. I mean, let's be, you know, there's no doubting about that. In the '50s and Elvis Presley and Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard and all those guys, I mean, that's where it, that's where it all started. And, uh, there's no getting away from that. But I guess by this, around the start of the '60s, the Americans had got a little bit formulaic about it, you know, that it hadn't— they, they kind of slightly run out of steam. I mean, Presley was the most incredible revolutionary force ever. In popular music. So you can't— you've got to give him that, and you've got to say, you know, fair dues. But the Americans had kind of forgotten about the core music of America, the blues, if you like, which was what they'd sort of— they'd obviously had a great period in the '50s and before with, with that, with— based on blues music and rock and roll and country and that, you know, those kind of, those kind of sounds. But it would took the British guys like Eric Clapton and Brian Jones and the Rolling Stones and Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck and all those people to sort of discover the blues, if you like. They heard the blues, the American blues, and they thought, wow, this sounds fantastic, Chuck Berry. And they kind of adapted it to the new era and the new technology and the new sounds. And then they sort of re-exported it back to where it had come from in the first place with incredible results, you know, very, very successfully. We kind of revived it with our own edge, really. That's it. We put our own spin on it. Yeah, yeah. It was a British spin that was put on it. And the Beatles obviously are the key act of all of them. But, and then sort of sold it back to the US and they were very happy to take it, although, you know, I guess they, they then wanted to come back themselves. And, uh, you know, as, as things went on, the, the, you know, the Americans kind of came back on, on, on their own terms in the, in the '80s and the '90s when Michael Jackson and, you know, town, La Motown and all those kind of things. So it was, uh, it's an interesting, yeah, very interesting period. Well, as I said earlier, it's very cyclical, isn't it? And we, we all keep on adding something and, and, and that's just how it works. Yes, I do find it's just sometimes it hits at the right time, and you can have exactly the same formula at the wrong time and it just won't work. But sometimes there's something in society that is missing, and when it all comes together beautifully, you get what happened in the '60s and '70s. I think that's right. I think that's right. And it was interesting in your introduction when you said about punk and how everything kind of went back to zero again and changed, you know, a sort of DIY revolution, I think you called it. Rebellion. Yeah, in a way, that's what the '60s was really. I mean, it was a sort of a DIY revolution. I mean, the same kind of forces were at work. You know, there was a lot of bands out there playing. The Beatles were playing at the Cavern Club for years, you know, before they actually had a hit. And the Stones were playing at the Ealing Club and the Crawdaddy and Yeah, you know, just chugging along, uh, and then it was a kind of grassroots thing. It just sort of pushed through very much, and it was kind of also— it was a challenge to the, uh, to the establishment, you know, which punk clearly was. By the time punk came along, the, the, the, the, the bands of the '60s had become the establishment, and punk sort of reset the, the reset the gauge, if you like, and start it all again. And so it went on. I think I'm very lucky. I live in southwest London, so I'm actually Twickenham-based. So there's my regular walks. I'm— even after this interview, I'll be going past the Eel Pie Island, which obviously used to have the Eel Pie Hotel. And, um, you know, Richmond is my playground as well, which is just one of those places that you always think of when you think of pop and rock, because you, you have got Richmond, Twickenham, Ealing, where all these bands kind of came together. I think the Yardbirds were constantly in Twickenham. I think my auntie might have actually dated one back in the late '70s, early '80s. What, dated a Yardbird? Yes, so she tells me. I need to maybe drill her for more information on that one. But yeah, you have the Crawdaddy Club, you have the music scene is still very rich around here because of its roots. We've got the Eel Pie Museum, the music museum, and the '60s London bus tour that's run by Paul Indercott that kind of goes around this area. And, you know, you can't walk more than 100 yards without coming past somewhere that's iconic from, from that era in Southwest London. Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely right. There's the Eel Pie Club, I guess, you go past, which Gina Way runs. And, uh, yeah, um, in fact, Cheryl Robson, who published this book, The Pop Rock Icons, recently did another book which I also contributed to called, um, Rock's Diamond Year, which, um, which was a discussion— well, it's an interesting book. It's really telling the story of that period through, um, through the, through the, uh, a description of the venues that all these places that you've just mentioned, the Crawdaddy, the Eel Pie Hotel, Eel Pie Island, and the Marquis and the Hundred Club and other places in Richmond and more central as well in London. And that's an interesting book as well if this is the sort of era that you're interested in. Well, definitely. I've just looked it up now, so it's celebrating the 60th birthday, so from 1962 to 2022. Um, yeah, the Rikki-Tikki, the Ealing Club, the Crawdaddy Club, the Bull's Head, uh, the Hundred Club. I've been to the Hundred Club a few times. Their green room— I assume you've been to the Hundred Club? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, their green room is brilliant, isn't it? Just, just to kind of— it's the most grungiest place, but it's just got— it hasn't changed since 1956 or something. No, they have done some renovations at some point, but it's incredible. It used to be really, really one of the most un— if you like, unspoiled, if that's the word— venues, you know, just like it had always been. And of course, there's some amazing scenes there, you know, from going back to the Sex Pistols and all sorts of other bands. The Half Moon in Putney is another one which is in the book, and that was a great venue, and that's been going continuously, I think, since 1963. That's a great one. Well, I was just about to say actually, David, yeah, the Half Moon in Putney is going strong. They have incredible gigs going on multiple times a week. It is— I actually work at another station in Southwest London and we are regularly talking to artists that are playing at the Half Moon. It's just, it's a fantastic venue. You know, you go there and you know as soon as, as the coronavirus started to disappear, um, that was the one that everybody was waiting to open back up again. And you were, you were seated down, it was all very regimented, but everybody was just happy to be back at the Half Moon. Yeah, yeah, it's a great place. Yeah, we played there a couple, a few weeks ago. We did a, we did a show and, uh, it's, it's always good. And it's, they've, they've worked hard at it, you know, they've kept it going, they've kept it, they've maintained it as well, you know. It's got a nice stage and it's got a nice It just, it's just a pleasant place to be. Yeah, which is what we like. Um, now I would like to know, who would you say in modern music is a modern-day icon? Wow. Well, the name that springs to mind, I guess, is Ed Sheeran. I know it's not a popular choice necessarily, but you know, he's an incredible force of nature, if you like. And it's a different world now, obviously. It takes so much to become that level of stardom now. I mean, he's— but he, you know, his work with all those rappers and all those— he's done an album, he's doing some songs with, um, Bring Me the Horizon, you know, the heavy metal group. He's an incredibly broad-ranging talent. Yeah, versatile, versatile and genuine. I think I give him props. I mean, Adele, I guess, is the one that also springs to mind, uh, came from sort of pretty humble South London roots, North London roots. Sorry, Wembley lass. Yeah, she killed me for that. North London. Um, and she is obviously a huge global brand and, and icon and all the rest of it. Uh, and her shows in Las Vegas that she's finally got around to doing, uh, last month, I think, have been, uh, by all accounts very, uh, you know, very well received. But it's, it's a different world now, you know. Somebody once asked me, you know, who, who's the Beatles of today? Well, there isn't the Beatles of today, you know. No one can do that again. It can't be done, uh, because the world is different and the whole delivery system of music and the whole place of music in the scheme of things is different, you know. Music is not the driving force of a generation at this point, and it's, it's other things, you know. People have moved on. It's social media and it's computer games, and it's all sorts of other things have taken the place of music as a primary driving force in people's lives. So music is now more of a soundtrack. It's more of a cultural element that is sort of there like the architecture or the whatever it is, you know. It's not something that's going to affect a huge social change. So to be a, to be, you know, some kind of an icon of today is very, very hard thing to do, and there's not very many of them. And it's a different sort of thing. I don't know if Adele and Ed Sheeran— and I'm trying to think who else is on that level, you know, those kind of big acts. Well, I think they probably spring to mind more because they are less scandalous and just generally come across as quite down to earth. And we just like that in the music scene a little bit more. Yes, we like a little bit of rough and tumble, but it's that kind of still relatable element that they still have some roots to them where they've not completely gone off in a weird world of their own where they're requesting only blue Skittles. Yeah, I guess so. It's a different— I mean, the meaning of the thing has changed, hasn't it? I mean, you know, the Stones And the Beatles were challenging so many norms, you know, they were challenging things and they were leading a revolt, if you like, they were leading a revolution. Uh, I don't think anyone with the best will in the world would say that Adele and Ed Sheeran are leading a revolution, but they, they're kind of, they're, they're as much of a part of the cultural landscape as anything else at the moment, you know, but it's not, it's a different function that music has now. I think that's my feeling. I mean, there are still revolutionary musicians and music going on. I You've got someone like Stormzy, for instance, who you could, you could certainly call him an iconic artist, um, but he's not, he's not on that level, you know. He's not changing the world in the way that the Stones and the Beatles did. Or maybe for some people he is, but, you know, everything's fragmented now. Everything's a lot different and a lot bigger. And so Stormzy's had a big impact, but it's a different sort of thing, you know. It's not a sort of whole global— it's not a global revolution, if you like. Well, I think like with anything in life, it's all about balance, and people are choosing what to take from music and choosing to enjoy it in their own way. Yes, it's— as you were saying before, it's not as prominent for everybody, but, you know, we all need balance and we all need I mean, personally, I'm getting hugely into the live music scene at the moment because one of my sons is hugely into it. He keeps on, you know, I say, if you can find the tickets, I'll buy them and let's go. So I think we're actually going to Wollymouth tomorrow. We've seen the 1975 and Charlie Puth and just, you know, we're allowed to like what we like in our own way these days. I think that's fantastic. Yeah, well, that's a different— that's another thing as well, you know, because back in our day, or in my day, the idea of going to a gig with my dad or my mum would have been quite, uh, you know, that would have been pretty radical. It wouldn't happen. In fact, the story in this Rocks Diamond Year where one of the guys was recalling an occasion when he was 12 or 13 or 14 maybe, and he was asking his mum if he could go to see some band, The Kinks or something, And she said, well, I'll— you can go if I can come with you. And he sort of thought about it and he sort of decided against it. You know, it would be too— it'd be too awful to have his mum show up because it was very much a youth— it was a youth cultural explosion. It was, you know, parents were excluded and it was the parents were what the, the, that generation were kicking against, if you like, or their parents' music and their parents' values, if you like, almost to an extent. And so that's again what you're saying is, I mean, I'm, my son plays in my band, you know, I mean, he's a fantastic musician and he's fantastic company for me as a musician. And we, we're on the same page completely. And so obviously you and your, your son is the same. Um, and that's— well, yeah, of course. And it's great. And that's the thing that— but that is the thing that's changed. I mean, from when we went— from when all these people were— when the Beatles and the Stones came Most of our parents, uh, you know, they might have had a little bit of a regard, you know, sneaking regard for some of the tunes, you know, like they might have liked the Kinks' 'Sunny Afternoon' or something, but it wasn't— it was by and large a very generation-specific, um, appeal that these— those bands had to begin with, you know. Obviously it, it, it, it, it widened out as it went on, and now it's completely cross-generational, you know. Your son might have some bands that you would find a bit challenging, but it's still— I'm sure, you know what I mean? It's still something that it wouldn't be beyond the pale. Um, well, maybe it would, I don't know. Well, well, we'll wait. Each week comes with a new challenge. The 1975, you know, there's a, there's a, there's an act, you know, that are very, very successful, very current, very popular now. And kind of cutting edge in their way. Um, but you know, you and I can, you know, we know what the 1975 is, you know, about. It's a band with some guitars, and you know, it's, it's, it's— but it's working from the same template, um, albeit doing it in a much different way with, with it, with a whole sort of new, you know, their own young view of it, or younger, younger take on it. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, they were fantastic. They a good crack, quite rock and roll, bit more rock and roll than what I thought they were. I can't really say on the radio what they got up to on stage, but, you know, it was good fun. Now, unfortunately, as I suspected, we are running out of time. David, thank you so much for joining us on Get Booked. And a quick reminder to all of our listeners to pop on to davidsinclair4.com to go and have a look. And I think there's a picture there of you sitting next to your son on a sofa. On the latest. Um, that's, that's not my son. In fact, that's another— that's— no, my son's, uh, he's a professional poker player now. He's, he's flying the coop. He's, he's, he's traveling the world. That's a different, a different drummer, but, uh, but well spotted all the same. Yeah, well, I saw the kind of similar colored shoes and I just thought, oh well, that's like a father and son blue shoe kind of thing. Um, but no, I am mistaken. Thank you so much. It's perfectly plausible. Uh, but it's a, it's a nice photograph. Have a look at it. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna work my way through the website. Thank you so much for joining us and for talking so passionately about the book. And, uh, I'm sure many people are going to be running out and getting it for the various Christmas presents. I think it's a fantastic idea, fantastic book, and I've really enjoyed working my way through it. Thank you for chatting to me on Get Booked for Women's Men's radio station. Thank you, Hazel, it's been a pleasure. That was today's guest, the co-author David Sinclair of Pop Rock Icons, the new book illustrating two decades of the musical backbeat to history. A new hardcover book perfect for Christmas gifts and just one of those fabulous coffee table books. Pop Rock Icons provides a compendium of beautifully presented photographs from the 1960s and the 1970s, an era when rock was the pop of the day. The fuse was lit by the Beatles with their Mersey Sound in Liverpool. In London, the Rolling Stones rocked the blues as if their lives depended on it. Then came the musical whirlwind of the Yardbirds, The Who, The Kinks, themselves heralding inventive prog rock bands like Pink Floyd, Genesis, and Yes, and heavy metal with bands like Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple. As the 1970s progressed, the androgyny of icons like David Bowie and bands such as T-Rex took glam rock to the world. These These two decades of freedom and creativity are captured in this book with photos by the best photographers of the day and enhanced with the writing of top French music writer Philippe Margottin and a foreword by today's guest, British music journalist David Sinclair. This book has just been incredible to have a look through in preparation for for today's interview. The quotes alone are fabulous and splattered all over my Instagram. Just a really good book to just really sink your teeth into. Next week on Get Booked, we're going to be discussing the acclaimed leadership and life coach Becky Hall, who is the author of The Art of Enough. She has over 25 years experience working with busy people all over the world to help them create a more balanced life and find their own enough. She's going to be talking to us about how stress can affect your work and what to do about it, why being busy is not a badge of honor— I'm sure we can all definitely understand that one— how learning to Satisfied with enough can help us defeat burnout. How to manage productivity, workflow, and overwhelm, and top tips for maintaining a healthy work-life balance. I've been working my way through this book this week, and there are so many elements to this book that can be brought into our family life, how we socialize, work, and just our general mindset, trying to make sure that we reconfigure our mindset into that of having enough and not constantly trying to break these unachievable barriers. It's great to have goals, but we need to make sure that we're working in a way that helps us be the best we can be and not completely burn out. It's a fantastic, and I'm really looking forward to next week's show to discussing how we can try and hone in on that art of enough. That is Becky Hall. Please do go and check her out. Thank you so much for listening in to today's Get Booked. I've been your host Hazel Butterfield, and right now it's time for a little bit of a reminder of last week's show. Right now, as promised on Get Booked, we have Rag Bear who's going to talk to us about 39+ one that was released on the 24th of November. I'm going to put lots of bits and pieces and details up on hazelbutterfield.com so you can have a nice easy link to get hold of it. Now, this book, the quest to find our perfect imperfect soulmate— wow, what a challenge indeed. We have to kiss a lot of frogs to find our prince, supposedly, or more realistically, get smeared with bogeys and try and find good humor on the journey. Rach, the character in the book has decided that with a year to go until the milestone of reaching 40, she will embrace dating without being picky, give them all a go and see if she gets lucky. Uh, will Rach find love, find herself, or just curate entertaining stories to tell her good friends on a Friday night? This is a very entertaining, if not quite cringy at times, journey through dating mishaps, human nature, and importantly, friendship. Let's out more from the woman herself. Hello, thank you for joining us on Get Hooked here at Women's and Men's Radio Station. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. Hello. Now, um, I, I was reading this book, um, and, and I was, I was in Gales just having a nice coffee, and it was in a really nice kind of quiet environment, and all of a sudden I just burst out laughing and then started gipping at the same time. Do you want to guess which page I was on? There's so many parts that I can't even start with which part, but I think pretty much from what I've heard is the bogey face. Oh, I mean, it grosses me out when my own children have bogeys visible, so especially with a complete stranger who's trying to kiss me, that would make me really, really squeamish. Right, and then it lands on your face and you're just, oh, oh, oh, the movement is there again. That was a true story. Oh, the thing is, when I was reading it, it felt like it was true, um, as well. I mean, so from, from what I gather, this book is, it's based on real events that's been condensed for the whole year quest, because it is fiction, but it's fiction that's kind of based on things that have happened to you. Um, tell us a little bit about why you decided to write this book. Oh well, um, I decided to write the book— I always thought that I would be— I would write a book. I didn't know what it would be about, but when I embarked on the quest, I think it was in year 1997, I decided I had a good job. I just bought— the year before I bought a house, and I'd go out with my friends and I'd say, I just can't find a boyfriend. Men weren't asking me out. So I decided that— and they were saying, they would say to me that you're just too picky, you know, you're just too picky, you know. So I decided that I would say yes to anyone who asked. And that's how it began. So I slowly started getting myself out there on dating sites, and, and it all began. But I never just thought in my head it was going to be a quest. I just wanted to go out there and date anyone who was bold enough to ask me out. Or— well, do you know what the irony is, is that if we have a particular person that we go for and we're still aimlessly wandering through the dating pool, we're clearly looking for the wrong person that actually doesn't work for us. And sometimes we want to go for something that's in our comfort zone, and then we keep on doing the same thing and wonder why it keeps on going wrong. So the idea of the quest, I wholeheartedly got, because you need to go out of your comfort zone And if you're always going, you know, I've got friends who always go to these slightly younger pretty boys, and she's like, but they've just got, you know, it never works out. We never seem to kind of have the same sense of humor. And I'm like, well, babe, you need to be looking at somebody who's got the same sense of humor then. And, you know, that could come in any kind of package. And get yourself out there a little bit more and just stop going down the same route. And, you know, it's, it's It's, you know, I like the idea of the quest because it's a challenge and we don't know what's going to work unless we try something different. That's exactly it. And that's exactly what I did, because I was the same. I'd go for the same kind of guy. And, and I think with my job as well as airline crew, um, I think, um, I never really got asked out, really, by the guy— by, yeah, by guys that I liked. And so I decided that well, and maybe they saw me as too independent from what my friends said. You're too independent, you're fussy, you're picky. So yeah, I think that that's how the quest began, and we're just deciding that, okay, I'm going to go out there and open myself up. Well, not open, you know, just go out there and see what's out there. And yeah, not have any constraints. Yeah, be open to new experiences. I think that's key, isn't it? It. Yes, I came up with this idea not so long back. I should kind of trademark it really. But I like the idea— the whole idea of dating sites fills me with dread. It is ridiculous. People are swiping left or right based on what you look like. And I actually had Laura Price on the show recently, and she's written a book called Single Bald Female, and she went through the dating process as she was going through chemo. So she was bald and she knows that anybody who actually swiped on her were interested to find out more about her because obviously she was going through quite an experience and it wasn't just solely based on superficial looks. And I love that kind of concept, but I like the idea of a dating site where it was like you went for a dog walk So it's like dog walk dating. So there's— yes, you're kind of out and about with a dog for safety, but there's kind of that whole distraction as well. Because if you meet in a bar, you're nervous, and so you might— I know for a fact I've been nervous and drank too much sometimes, and then just gone, oh, I either come across as an idiot or I'm— I've got the beer goggles on, and you have no idea. So, but, but similarly, I've been on dates when I have used the Dastardly apps where I've taken my dog along for safety. You're making— you're meeting a complete stranger, especially in lockdown where you didn't have the safety of the pubs. You know, the whole idea of going to a restaurant or a pub is that if something goes wrong, there's somebody there. But in lockdown, you're essentially in a park with a complete stranger who knew you'd be walking home at some point, and it just all felt a little bit weird. So I used to take my dog, but my dog would sense my apprehension and she'd either hump them— I swear to God, it was so ridiculous— which would make me even more nervous, and it was always a bit counterproductive unless they were huge dog fans. But, you know, it's just— I've had some incredibly messed up dating scenarios where it's just been horrific. I actually, um, just coming out of lockdown when the pubs were open, I met a guy who was a psychologist who tried upsetting me and riling me because he was interested in my response. Wow. Yeah, that was not good. Um, there were a few expletives. And I was just like, is this how it's going to go? Because otherwise I just want to go, what are you actually doing? And he explained. I went, that's really messed up. I'm not paying you for, uh, a psychological analysis. Uh, well, I know I'm messed up. I don't need you to tell me. You're a complete stranger. Um, and the next day, it was so bad. He was just like, uh, the next day he's going, hey, I had a great time. Do you fancy going out again? I just went, no, you're opening a sandwich shop, a picnic, and not in a good way. I'm— no, it's not really— no, not a good way to start off, um, a relationship or meeting someone, playing psychological games. No, I did not. Like, he tried telling me that my feet were big and did it bother me. I'm size 6, I don't think they're that big. And he just wanted to insult me to see whether I would— it was so, it was so bonkers. I kind of stayed a little bit longer than I should have done because I was intrigued to see what he going to come out with next. And then I just started giggling, and at the end I just went, I think you should pay the bill because I don't really think that I should— I deserve— I owe you anything. Oh, that's funny. I think you've got a book in you now. Um, yeah, uh, don't need to. 39+1 covers it all. Hello!