Get Booked – Discussing Mental Well – Being With Iveta Parravani

Welcome to today's Get Booked radio show here in Covent Garden, supporting women's emotional well-being, opening discussions, and offering support via incredible writers out there. And you can come and share my love of books at hazelbutterfield.com and my specific book Insta feed at @getbookedwrs. Come and join me. I tend to put up little, little blogs and snippets and quotes and slightly inappropriate humor at times, which is just my MO. It's what I do. Today is the first in a series of interviews we'll be having here for GetBooked on mental health bloggers and websites, and we're going to be sharing their knowledge, experience, and the power of writing and website resources. Joining us in the studio today is Iveta Parivani to discuss morethanmind.org. Hi. Hello. Good morning. How are you? I'm very well, thank you very much. I've been very— I'm quite excited to discuss this with you because not only do you have the website More Than Mind, also you offer courses, don't you? I do. I'm a qualified mental health first aid instructor and I train people and companies how to provide mental health first aid. For young people and for adults. Mental Health First Aid. Yeah. What does that entail? What is Mental Health First Aid? It's basically I'm training people to have some skills, how we can provide support and even that initial help in crisis situations such as suicide. Also how we can help somebody with and support with eating disorders, depression, anxiety, psychosis. Self-harm. So we look into the most common mental health issues and how, especially workplace, how we can actually support people with those mental health issues. Because a lot of times we just want to get rid of those people because if they have mental illness, we just think they kind of need to be written off. So we try to push them out of the companies, but— Which is not helpful because— No, it's not. We aren't getting less people with mental health issues. It's a growing epidemic. And so people can end up with no employees if they don't learn how to help and support each other. And also, if we were all a bit more honest, I think there's a lot more of us that have mental health issues than we let on. The thing is, we all have mental health. And I think that's also something people really struggle to understand. A lot of us think that mental health means mental health issues. But we all, every single one of us, have mental health, and it can be a little bit up. It can be very, very up. Sometimes, you know, we can have those wobbly days. How do we cope with those situations when we are feeling sad or when everything just goes pear-shaped? Or being overwhelmed. And be overwhelmed. Yeah. Also, stress in workplaces is such a big thing. So how we can actually support those people so that they condition or they, you know, wouldn't get even worse. It's quite interesting because I was speaking to a friend of mine who, um, he runs his own company. He does actually employ quite a lot of people, and he's, um, quite a keen mental health advocate. And he arranges for people to come in and give massages. People are allowed mental health days, um, and it's welcomed. And, you know, increase the honesty around it, and people feel a little bit more relaxed to be able to have these issues, which in itself kind of helps deal with the issues. And it's quite interesting because he was telling me a lot about the different things that he does to support his staff and they stay a long time. And, you know, this is important as well because it helps you retain your staff. But it'd be interesting to tell him that there are actually courses you could go on as well. Yeah, there is. Yeah. So there is a one-day one which qualifies you a Mental Health First Aid Champion. So if you've never been a champion, it's a brilliant course to be taking. So it will be qualified as a champion and it gives you the skills especially in a workplace, how we can actually support and recognise those very, very first signs in our employees. And then there is a 2-day one which does qualify you as a Mental Health First Aider, which will give you that very important skill set, how we can again support practically and also emotionally other people in our workplaces and make them mentally healthy workplaces, which is so, so, so important. But this is something that you hear quite often where you go, yeah, I know they're struggling, but I just don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. There's courses out there to kind of help. And no one situation is the same. But do you know what? Some of the best bits of advice out there are just to listen and not just to go, oh, I don't know what to do. I'm just gonna be going that direction. Go and sit in a corner somewhere. And that's the thing about Mental Health First Aid, very one of the most important things is our job is not to give advice. Our main job is to listen. And also about the right thing. There are a lot of times there is no right words. There is no right time when to talk and what to say. It's about your heart. It's about the empathy, what is coming out from there. And sometimes all you need is just the ear that actually not just listens, but hears what you are saying. But also there's that element of just knowing that somebody wants to. I mean, I'm sure I've said the wrong things probably so many times, but you know, friends who've had these issues have said, "Yes, but the fact is you wanted to help. That's half the battle." It's rather than just feeling like you're on your own. A lot of mental health issues are based around loneliness and isolation. Yes. So just knowing that even if they say the wrong thing, It's just being there. Yes. It is listening. It's so incredibly powerful. So people can find out about these courses at morethanmind.org. That's right. How long has this website been going for? I resigned last year since— so full-time mental health first aid instructor I've been since September last year. But on top of working full-time as well, I was taking some time off to go out and deliver these trainings. But I've been a mental health first aid instructor since 2017. Right. So it's been a little while, but I'm loving it. That's, it's like a passion project that you managed to finally do. It is because for nearly 14 years my heart was in TV and broadcasting. So I was working there and then aside for the very last 6 years especially, I was going to workshops and conferences and I tried to really learn a lot about mental health because I've been in that hole myself and I've been, and I know what it's like to be, you know, so lonely when you have people around you, but you just feel so, so empty and so lonely. And trying to understand what really was going on and getting myself better on the road to recovery, my heart started going into that mental health field. And last year I made the decision to leave the corporate world behind and try and explore something new. And I know I'm not going to save the whole world, but if I can support and help, you know, one or two people— just, just, just one's enough. Anything on top of that, it's— because I mean, you, you were in quite a crazy industry, weren't you? Sky and Discovery. Yeah. And you know, when I— they're all bonkers there. And I've been, you know, we met some, some such amazing people, and I worked with such incredible line managers who have so supported me throughout my struggles as well. And especially when I was in discovery, when I was actually diagnosed with severe postnatal depression, I remember that chat I needed to have with my line manager about that I actually, I had a mental illness and that I would need to be taking some time off to go to counselling. And I was so ashamed and I really, really struggled to open up. It's that ashamed element. It's just feeling like you failed when you haven't. But the more people who are honest about what's happening, you know, it makes us all feel as if we're all not normal. Who'd want to be normal? But you know. Well, what is normal? Yeah, exactly. But it's just that we're all dealing with things. And I think what quite often happens, especially people like yourself who've had to experience something that was quite traumatic, you end up wanting to be that person that you needed? I think also because I had such great role models in my workplaces. Like I said, when I worked in Discovery, my line manager basically took my hand, cried with me, and she said, "Yvette, I don't really care about work. All I care is about your mental well-being." And I think that— What a good manager. Yeah. And I think she was such a great role model, which actually, back 9 years ago, I did not really realise it. But I think only thanks to her, that was my road to recovery as well. And I learned how important it actually is to have that support in a workplace because I was getting better and I wanted to work my backside off as my thank you for that support. So I was really willing to give back everything I possibly could. But this is the whole reason why people should be supporting people in the workplace because you support them, they want to give back. You get more from people as well. And, you know, life is based around altruism anyway, but it's just, you know, treat people well and they'll want to treat you well too. And you get the best of people. They do. And, and also, you know, mental health issues does not mean, you know, I'm going to be taking a lot of time off work, or I'm going to be ill, or I'm going to be costing employer a lot of money. Sometimes it is just that I know that that support is there if I do want to talk, and that is a lot. And it's also just managing situations as well, because sometimes maybe you just need 5 minutes out. I mean, put it into perspective, the amount of people that go out for a cigarette for 5 minutes 20 times a day, or they do this, or they do that, or, you know, they're playing on Facebook. Everybody has their things. We just need to kind of focus in on, you you know, what's important. Yeah. And sometimes you just need to get away from that desk, like you said, for 5, 10 minutes just to gather your thoughts, then come back and then full swing back into your work again. There's a lot of companies out there now that really are encouraging going off and like the WeWork places, they have meditation and Pilates and yoga and they actually encourage people to do it because it just encourages stronger wellbeing, stronger people. And also, Somebody who goes off for an hour and meditates comes back, you know, and does a productive 4 hours instead of a rubbish 4 hours. And it's just thinking outside the box. I've got so many questions for you and I've managed to get through half. We will get in there. We're getting there. We're getting there. We've already come to the end of our first section. And when we come back, I'm gonna be talking about the reason 'cause you actually do some work over in Latvia as well, don't you? I do. I want to discuss that a little bit more. We're gonna be discussing 3 tips you give for good mental health, the books that you like as well. Don't worry, don't worry. You can, half your tips have already come out already. You're fine, you're fine. And we're going to be talking a little bit more about the next big thing for you. Is this what's gonna be happening with More Than Mind? And just making sure that our listeners know where to go to get support report back in a couple of minutes. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism, women The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Falguni Desai of Action Coach. Are you a business owner with more than 5 employees? Do you want to grow your business? I'm a London-based business coach who helps small and medium-sized businesses to grow and make a profit. I will help you identify the strengths and weaknesses in your business and then work with you to improve it using a structured framework. To find out more, contact me on 07721 654640 and book your 1-hour complimentary one-to-one coaching session. Thank you. Hi, I'm Tracy Whedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award-winning family-run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth, and fine art. You can contact us on 0208 658 4334, or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free, no-obligation quotation. At Brown Hills, we've got you covered. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci, and I'm the executive director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone, and the Democratic Republic of Congo. And we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own, and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website at MediaMattersForWomen.org. You're listening to Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadioStation, that's Women's Radio Station, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Hello, I'm Hazel, and you can listen to my shows Get Booked every day of the week at 5 AM and 5 PM. And throughout my shows, we will talk about what I've read, what I'm reading, new releases, chat to authors, bloggers, publishers, and book enthusiasts. You can catch up on my previous shows at womensradiostation.com/getbooked and on our SoundCloud. Now, welcome back to our second section here today. We have been chatting to Iveta Pirovani and her website morethanmind.org. We've been chatting away about why you decided to set up More Than Mind, um, and I want to talk a little bit about the work you do in Latvia as well for So that's for the kind of postnatal side of mental health. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? So nearly 6 years ago, in July it's gonna be 6 years, I started the charity back home. And the reason was that was kind of beginning of my recovery. And I realized that in Latvia, the stigma and discrimination was still so, so, so big especially when it comes to postnatal period. And there was no support for new mums. You're the only person? We are the only organisation, the only charity in the whole country that for the last 6 years has been providing emotional support and organising campaigns, seminars free of charge. Free of charge? Free of charge. How do you manage to sort that out? Paying myself. Wow. There is no support from government in Latvia. So it's basically also fundraising, you know, taking part in challenges such as Tough Mudder. So I did Tough Mudder challenge a couple of years ago. So raising money with that one, then I did with my son. He was at the time was 7 years old. We took a challenge in a 5K kind of bouncy castle event, if you can say that. So he ran it all and we were raising money. He was the main fundraiser. Fundraiser. So we raised about £600. So all that money goes towards the charity back home so I can organize. But it's all, yeah, all pretty much everything is free of charge. Is that like the Massathon? No, it's, it's, I think it's called Go Hung or something similar like that. So you basically, all the obstacles, they're like bouncy castles and it's absolutely amazing. And then at the end of the 5K, we did it in Norfolk, and then you kind of have like a massive, massive slide and you go into foam. So it's brilliant. It's absolutely amazing. Very, very fun. Can I do it next time? Oh yeah, definitely. Oh, that'd be so cool. It is so running, you know, it's just, and 5K, it's obstacles. And like I said, it's just so, so, so fun. It's not just running and you just huff and puff. But then there is, you know, bouncy castle, then there is other obstacles. Sounds like my kind of Friday night out. I know. It's brilliant. I can highly recommend it. See, I like that. So, you're finding ways to offer a service free of charge, you're fundraising in ways that incorporates your family, but it's fun and it's interesting and it's unique. So, well done, you. Oh, thank you. It's very important what you're doing. Yes, and it's— I keep saying that, you know, that charity, which is called Ebismonna, is like my third child, pretty much. It's like my middle child, and I started it Like I said, I had very severe postnatal depression when I had my very first child. And so he's very proud. Oscar is very proud as well that, you know, I started charity and sometimes he feels a little bit guilty that because it's because of him that— and we did a campaign last month. We opened an art exhibition where we have women and men sharing their stories about the struggles after their children were born. And we have like very pretty deep pictures, and then we have our stories attached to them. And in the opening morning, my son said, "Mommy, I don't really want to go to the opening." And I said, "How come?" And he said, "People are going to think it's my fault that you were so sad." And so sometimes it does make and still breaks my heart when I have to have these conversations with him. But it's very important for me that he knows that I was not well after he was born, but it was not his fault. Well, it's a mixture of a chemical imbalance and hereditary, and if anything, the only thing that can't be attributed to it is the child. I mean, it is everything else that's surrounding what's going on. And Oscar had a very, very traumatic entrance into this world, so that was basically the very first brick that started laying the road towards my mental illness. Well, we're kind of filled with all these ideas of what is supposed to happen. You know, our Instagram Lives, our Facebook Lives, oh, I had this easy birth, oh, I had this. We're told by so many professionals about, you know, we're asked, how do you want your birth to go? It's very rare that people can actually determine how it goes. And I remember when I had my first child, they said, do you want this, do you want that, do you want that? I want it out. Can we just, you're the professional. If this has to happen, it has to happen. I trust you to make the right decision. And there was a couple of things that I, I mean, obviously if you don't want to have certain drugs or whatever, but I went, do what you think I need to do because you are a professional. And there's so many people that go in and go, I want a water birth. I want to be blessed with lotus flowers. And then at the same time I'm going to use breath to deal with the pain. And then when it all goes wrong, because we are all unique and it's, you know, an extremely intricate medical kind of procedure and a process, that things go wrong and lotus flowers aren't going to help when the baby's stuck. I'm sorry, that's a little bit kind of— No, but it's true. And then people go, "I couldn't do it the way I wanted to." Well, no! Because those expectations as well, you know, I had planned water birth, you know, we had a really nice— Did you want lotus flowers as well? I didn't have those ones and I didn't really have the favourite music. But I did really want water birth because, you know, it's supposed to help you and the pain is not as intense. And then I could not deliver myself. And then I even had, you know, the— I would probably say emotional abuse from staff, you know, saying that somebody with my height, with my body shape, and I'm not the skinniest one of the lightest and smallest women. I should be able to give birth. So I was stimulated and, and I couldn't and I just couldn't. So after 52 hours, they did make the decision and I was pretty much yellow as a pumpkin and I was not even able to talk anymore. They did make the decision, you know, that I would be giving birth via C-section. And that was my very first failure. Because I was even reminded by my staff around me that somebody with my shape, somebody with my height should be able to deliver children. They shouldn't be saying that to you. They shouldn't. Yeah, of course they shouldn't, because that's already stuck in my head. I failed as a mum. And it's something, you know, I did not have that support, unfortunately. And Oscar's heart drop, you know, kind of really, really dropped critically 3 times, and I lived for those months that he's gonna die. I was really, really truly believing that he will die, he's going to be taken away from me. But you now know that this is completely no question on anything that you did. I did, yeah. It is just life throws situations at us and circumstances, and the beauty of life is sometimes how we deal with these situations, and you went through something quite horrible and traumatic, but look what you're doing with it now. And that's why I I started a charity back home because I started forums online to start with, and every day, and in one month it was 100 of us. And I learned and I realized I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one who failed. And the thing is, which I learned to understand, I did not fail. I did not fail. But that was something that took me years. To process and forgive myself. And that's my, one of the main reasons why I keep talking about it also in Latvia. So I'm so passionate about, about new dads as well. And even UK, every fifth mum has postnatal depression. Have they? Yeah. And this, but does that cover baby blues as well? Or is that? No, that's postnatal depression. Because baby blues can affect up to 85% new mums and it's a natural process, but that one will go away within 2 to 4 weeks. And, um, but then, yeah, every 5th mum and every 10th new dad will have postnatal depression. So it's actually very, very common. It is. But also you've got to think, it's like, it's something huge that happens to a woman's body. But then in terms of men and women, this is the, the responsibility element the lack of sleep, the change to life. I mean, it's not like you're moving house. There is a living being suddenly dependent on you, and it's incredible and it's scary all at the same time. And, and then you've still got employers that are not hugely supportive, or you've got the money issues. You've got so many different elements to contend with. And yes, as you're right, it is men and women that have to deal with these situations. I do remember, like, one of the ladies in my NCT group— there was, there was only one that had postnatal depression. It was quite severe. She had to go away for a month or two, and she was a nanny. It was her full-time job to look after babies. And we're like, oh wow, that's interesting. But it's not to do with your capabilities. No, it's not. It is— it can affect any one of us, anybody. And I remember thinking, oh, oh right, okay. And it was We were kind of, you know, a bit surprised about that, but the more we talk about it and the more— and this is, this is the why I love this show, because it's just about opening conversations and it's different perspectives and people don't experience the same thing ever. And we all have different friends and different backgrounds and different expectations, different jobs, different levels of tolerance and strength, and it's It's a great thing that you're doing. Yeah, and we are unique. Every single one of us is so unique. Thank goodness for that though, eh? Yeah. Can you imagine if we were all the same? How boring that would be, huh? I know. No, no. We wouldn't need psychologists. No. I think it's quite good. I like the way that how America just, they just see going to a psychologist a bit like going to the dentist. Yeah, but here it's that stigma and also that shame that people are going to think I have issues or she's mentally ill, you know, she's the one who is depressed. And so it's that shame also that comes with it. There are more and more people, I see a counsellor every week. I think it's great, I absolutely love it. I've seen psychiatrist, I've seen psychotherapist. Are you just showing off now? I know, I can just add to the list. We're gonna just go for another quick break. We're already halfway through today's show. We're back in a few minutes with this week's next guest talking about morethanmind.org. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's well-being. 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Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand with a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs. We can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com. Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being. Hello, I'm Hazel. Welcome back to the third section of today's Get Booked. We've been chatting away. I had a really long list of questions to get through. Regular listeners will know that I just start chatting and been chatting away to Iveta, haven't I, darling? Just a little bit. Just a little bit. We've covered so many topics, but none that are on my list. As you know, this is a book show And we've been talking a lot about mental health, predominantly the postnatal depression. And what I would like to discuss is some of the books that you've loved that focus on mental wellbeing. And you've actually sent a few of them over in advance, and there's one of them that, Bryony Gordon's one of your favourites? Yes, Mad Girl. Yeah. She's just, I did a review of that book Did you? Yeah, because I just thought she's one of these— I mean, she's a Daily Mail columnist, isn't she? And she chats away and she kind of takes the mickey out of her anxiety. I need to drink, this happening, this happening, her kind of OCD, her involuntary kind of— when she gets a bit funny, she kind of sometimes feels like she wants to say something silly and It's one of those books where she writes it in a way that is sympathetic, but you just want to sit there and laugh. It is a funny book, but at the same time, I know when I was reading it, sometimes I was just in tears as well. It's a very, very powerful book talking about mental illness, talking about also about her addiction, and also the road to recovery as well. And it is like what you basically say, you know, it is a very, very powerful, emotionally really heavy, can get really, really heavy to some points. But then you laugh through tears. Yeah. You do laugh through tears and— Kind of awkward at some times. It is. You kind of feel a little bit guilty, especially, you know, you can just, your heart just goes out to that poor girl. And so, yeah, that's one of my top books as well. And another one I've started reading the last weekend, also by Briony Gordon, is You Got This, the new book, which is for teenage girls, again about, you know, the mental health, about insecurities and things like that. So I think it's a book that every teenage girl— and I wish I read when I was a teenage girl. Oh, is it one of those? Is it something that I'll enjoy as well, do you think? Oh, you'll love it, yeah. Have you read The Wrong Knickers, her first book? I haven't read that one. It's on my kind of table. I have to to get to that one as well. It's one of those ones where read it in a park or around by the pool when you're on holiday and just watch people stare at you as you cackle. Just laugh. Yeah, just, she's basically like the UK's version of Chelsea Handler. I don't know if you know Chelsea Handler. She's really an appropriate comedian in America. She's brilliant, but she writes, some of the books that she writes, quite graphic but just hilarious. But again, Hers aren't really on mental health, but it kind of just talks about the things that really go in our heads where people might go, "Oh, that's a little bit out there." No, we all think that. We just don't necessarily always admit it. But yeah, Bryony Gordon, I just find her absolutely fantastic. Please ring them. Oh, I love her. I love her Twitter feed. You know, I follow her on social media. I love her just very casual things, and sometimes it's just one sentence. You got this, girl. Yeah. You know, and talking about her insecurities so openly about her body shape, about, you know, how it's actually making her feel, opening that rawness about her, you know, being sober and counting the days and saying, you know what, bloody well done, Bryony. And it just lets her to show the vulnerability of her. And at the same time, the true her, the real person that's behind it and That's what I actually love in people I actually follow. I need real people, I need real stories, and not that brushed up pretty Instagram stories. Well, do you know what, I mean, this is the strength, and she really does— she's nailed it on the head, just to be quite honest. And the more honest she is and the more real she is, and people are kind of getting on board with it as well, and it's quite encouraging. This— I was just trying to find a tweet that I saw recently because I know that the next book you wanted to sort gossip is Matt Haig. Yeah. And do you follow his Twitter feed? I do. Sometimes I just sit there, they're the kind of tweets that you just go, I just need a minute. Yeah. Just saying thank you. Yeah. Well, there was one, I'm just gonna tell us a little bit about the book that you, I mean, because he's just written millions of them, hasn't he? He has. So good. I have a few of his books, but his top top, and that's probably is the top of the books for myself, is I was given by my sister-in-law actually his Reasons to Stay Alive. And I was given that book in a time when actually I was not well myself and my family and extended family, they learned more and more about my struggles and about my depression. And yeah. So they went out of their way to kind of— Yeah. So my sister-in-law, Ellie, she got me the book and I don't think I've ever cried so much in my life as I did when I was reading the book. It's the book, not because your heart goes out to that young guy who's, you know, in that book, the story is about Matt when he was basically 23, 24. But it's just, you recognize yourself, you recognize the pain, you recognize the loneliness, you recognize the panic, you recognize the isolation, the withdrawal, that, you know, the looks from the people and how you actually want to look away. You recognize those suicidal thoughts. Within yourself. And it's a book I've read so, so, so many times. And it's a book I also given my best friend for her birthday last year when she was going through some really tough time. And it's definitely a book I keep reading myself as well. And it's, I'm pretty sure I can say, you know, it's a book that actually helped me through my recovery as well. So just give us the name of that book again. —It's Matt Haig's Reasons to Stay Alive. —Reasons to Stay Alive. It's quite interesting what you said about how you kind of, you could really kind of empathize what he was saying and that you saw yourself in that. I had somebody get in touch with me the other day, she's gonna come on one of my shows, and she wrote, she sent me through a blog that she's considering putting out there and I went, do you know what, I get everything that you're writing about, this completely, This is me. And she goes, "Oh right, okay." She goes, "I find it hard that sometimes all the thoughts are jumbled up in my head and I don't know how to put them down on paper." I said, "But you know what? Somebody will understand what you're trying to say and those are the people you need to be writing for because they'll get it and they'll just go, yeah, yeah." And the power of writing as well and the power of reading something that kind of hits you in the heart or just in the mind as well. Yeah, and it's like I said, especially through that book, Reasons to Stay Alive. I haven't read his new one yet. Apparently that one's really good as well, Notes on a Lonely Planet. That was next on my list. Yeah, so I've kind of, I don't know, I'm a little bit scared to read that one in case, you know, I'm a little bit disappointed or something as well. I don't know, not the disappointment because Reasons to Stay Alive is such a powerful book for me, so I'm kind of a little bit, little bit reluctant to be reading the other one, but it is on my list to read as well. Yeah. Yeah. But that, you know, when you just basically you can resonate and you can recognize yourself and to understand I'm not alone, I'm not the only nut in a village and it is okay not to be okay and forgive yourself, which is so, so, so hard to do. And all these, sometimes it's just one sentence, sometimes it's just one word, you know, and sometimes it's just, I'm sad. 'And it is okay to be sad.' And you just think, 'God, you know, thank God somebody's actually has said it. I'm allowed to be sad.' And very, very powerful. And we did talk a little bit about the things we see on Instagram, but there's quite a few people that I follow and some of the things that they say are just brilliant. But it, and it's a bit like what you just kind of mentioned is, you know, sometimes a line just hits you. And I think I saw a kind of like a picture the other day and he said, "Those people that you're trying to impress that never get you, they're not your people." And it's just, it's something that you just need to remind yourself that not everybody has to like you or understand you or, just sometimes just find the right one. And I couldn't find that tweet that I'd seen of Matt Haig's 'cause he posts about 30 tweets a day. I know, he's a busy guy. I was kind of scrolling through and going, It's just, this is time I'm never gonna get back. But I do remember roughly what it was about, and it was along the lines of find your people that want you to be weird. Find the ones who let you be weird because that is you, and what's the point in hanging out with anybody else? It was something like that. It was done on, it was a couple of Fridays ago, and I just thought, yeah, don't put people in a box. You kind of need to, Tread on that box. Yeah, find your own tribe basically, you know, find your own, create your own community and be with the people who actually lift you up rather than make you feel like rubbish. And that's very, very important as well. I had a blogger in Mummy Jojo and she put it quite well in Mummy Jojo and Cotton. This is all about how, it's a book on motherhood and how to just do it your way and not to worry about other people. And what she calls it is a WASP, people who buzz around you telling you what you should be doing. And they kind of, you know, when you just feel your hands going like this, going, "Stop it, stop it, I'm not like that, I don't wanna do it that way, I don't have to do it that way, you're brilliant at that, but you know what, I'm good at this." We don't all have to be as, go down that route. We need to do it our way, we are all unique, and I just, the way she kind of, you should read the book, it is absolutely brilliant. It's just about getting your mojo injection. It is. You know, finding what works for you. So many people don't reassess who they are and what they are and what they're about, and then they're wondering why they're just not fitting in, because they're still— they're hanging out with people that just aren't their people, and they make them feel bad. And sometimes we're so busy that we don't have the time to rethink what we are and what our priorities are and who we are. And it's just getting that time. And this is a lot of where mental health illnesses kind of come from as well, because we just don't feel like we belong. And it's that loneliness element. You can be surrounded by 30 people. Yeah. But you feel so lonely. But yeah. It's because you are trying to fit in some box society has created for us because that's the right box to be in. And then this is something again, what I, you know, question when people come to the training. Who knows what's the right thing? And we need to tell people where to shove that box. Yeah. Yeah, and that's very, very important. It is. Yeah, shove it. I can, I can give them a few suggestions. We, uh, we are just going to go off to another quick break. We will be back in a few minutes with our final section. This has just gone by really quickly, and we're gonna have to do that thing. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte. On Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Falguni Desai of Action Coach. Are you a business owner with more than 5 employees? Do you want to grow your business? I'm a London-based business coach who helps small and medium-sized businesses to grow and make a profit. I will help you identify the strengths and weaknesses in your business and then work with you to improve it using a structured framework. To find out more, contact me on 0721 654 640 and book your 1-hour complimentary one-to-one coaching session. Thank you. Hi, I'm Tracy Whedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award-winning family-run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth, and fine art. You can contact us on 0208 658 4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free no-obligation quotation. At Brownhill We've got you covered. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Bravacci, and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo, and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own, and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website at mediamattersforwomen.org. You're listening to Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @womensradiostation, that's women's radio STN, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back to our final section here of today's Get booked just before we went over to the ads. I was getting uber excited that, uh, my lovely producer couldn't shut me up. She's like, we need to play the ads. I'm like, but I've got so many suggestions of where people can shove their box that they want to put us in. So yes, I was, I was gassing off a little bit, but you know, we like to play our ads. We, you know, we need them. We need them. We need our ads. Um, I've really enjoyed having you in the studio today. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You're very welcome. You've been offering some excellent advice to people, and, um, if I want to make sure that people know that they can always go back and listen to our shows, go on to Women's Radio Station, and you can go either onto /getbooked or go and check it out on our SoundCloud. Now, we were just a little bit off air. It did go a little bit blue, but we can't, we can't say some of the words we were saying, but we were just talking about the elements of mental health and mental wellbeing based around people comparing. Your life is better than this. Your depression is different. My depression's worse. My, this, your situation is easier. You're richer. You're whatever. It's just gotta stop, hasn't it? It is. I think the great kind of, one of the greatest reasons for that one is also I think sometimes people mean it well, but it just does not come out that well as well. It's also people getting mixed up what is really sympathy and what is really empathy. And then there is that, you know, at least you're married, at least, you know, you have a husband, at least you actually do have children. I couldn't even have any children. Having a husband isn't always something to be proud of. I know. I know. One of the first things I was told when I opened up about my postnatal depression was I was told by actually by my oldest 'At least your child didn't die.' And it's like, and I, what it did to me, it made me feel even guiltier. And I know she probably meant well that, you know, I had something to look forward to and she didn't have it. But it's just the way I, at that time, I felt it was. People don't know what to say and they, and that's— Yeah. So that at least, that comparing, don't compare, you know, that pain with that person, those struggles, they are real for them. Acknowledge that rather than, you know, keep comparing that 'Oh, somebody else is worse. You know, children in Africa are dying. At least you have food.' They have, but— 'Somebody can't even be a parent.' But you're living your own issues, and sometimes we want to get better because we have other responsibilities. We have children to be healthy for. We have friends, family, and, you know, people who rely on us. And it's not that somebody else is worse off or better off. It's just we need to help ourselves as well as helping other people. And what we like to do here, on my Get Booked show is we offer 3 tips on, you know, what my guests think are helpful in terms of offering support for mental health and mental wellbeing. And that's why we were talking about the comparison. And you said that one of your tips would be to stop the comparative nature that we have, which I kind of stole that away from you and kind of snuck it from you. I did. But you've got a couple of other hints and tips, haven't you, to help us with our mental well-being? Yeah, another thing probably I would like to add, and I think that's something I had to learn for many, many years and to accept that it is okay not to be okay and to allow yourself to be sad, to allow yourself to feel a little bit low and to allow yourself to just be willing to run away from things for a little bit while. Put yourself first, basically. So it is okay not to be okay. And the third one probably would be the Mental Health First Aid training. And it's not just because I provide them myself, but I think it's a very, very great tool for people who are living with mental illnesses, people who are working with people, workplaces, how we can actually support them. What are the things, that listening part, how important it really is to be listening and hearing somebody what is saying rather than me listening to you and I'm already thinking, oh, what shall I respond? What question I shall ask? Just knowing what to do. And it's, I mean, in a kind of corporate way, you know, the better mental health your staff have, the more compassionate you are, the more that they will stay. Hey, your recruitment costs and training costs are gonna go down. And also just the fact that you're helping people just in general. You can help your mate in the pub. You can help, you know, It can work on so many different levels. And it can be a stranger on the street, you know, and also to have that, you know, set skills and, you know, that ear that actually hears or notices and follow your gut feeling that I might actually approach and just say, you know what, how are you doing? Oh, I can see that you're a little bit upset or distressed. Are you okay? It can start a conversation and also it can save lives. But that's the latest ad, isn't it? Start a conversation, save lives. Have you not seen it? It's, I think it was Samaritan's Purse. Samaritans? Is it Samaritans? I think it's Samaritans. Basically, there's just a guy that is about to, I think, kill himself, and he basically— someone just turns around. It's this— they basically show this woman who's just constantly going to the, to the other mums at school, hey, how are you? Yeah, always chatting away, always doing this, always doing that, and everyone's like, oh God, here she is again. And then she did the same thing, very chatty, to a complete stranger sitting at— well, standing at the side of a train track and he just turned around and went, "Not great." So people were taking the Mickey out of her always being, "Oh, Bobbi, always chatting, always wants to chat to people." And she stopped that from happening because she actually engaged with somebody. It's so incredibly powerful and it's just the want to listen is— I mean, I can actually feel the goosebumps now. It was so, such a powerful advert. But yeah, it's important. Listen. Yeah, listen. And don't be afraid to ask, even if it is a stranger, how are you? Are you okay? Because it can save lives. I have some of my best conversations with strangers. Actually, it's easier to open up to strangers. We actually find it harder to open up to people we love, our best friends, because we are afraid of being judged. We are afraid that they're going to be criticising us. And also a lot of times it's because because we don't want to hurt them, we want to protect them. So we actually find easier to open up to stranger. Hairdressers, barbers. They deal with all of it. Yeah. We were actually talking before about counselling as well. And something that I do and something that a friend of mine had to do as well, I go off every Monday morning and I try my best Thursday mornings as well before I go to school, before I go to work. Just after dropping the kids off at school. We all go with our dogs and we do a stomp, 5K stomp, and we chat, we shoot the breeze, and it's a little bit like a counseling session, but sometimes we're just airing what so-and-so did, what so-and-so said, is this okay, should I be doing this with work? And it's like a counseling session. And a friend of mine got a job where she couldn't go to them anymore, and after a couple of weeks she felt so low and she just couldn't figure it out. She realized it's because she wasn't having that session where, I mean, there's about 5 or 6 of us and we kind of— Offload as well, isn't it? You offload, you chat, but you're moving at the same time and it's, we walk quite quick and you get the 5K done. You're surrounded by dogs, surrounded by nature. And she just went, oh, that's why I don't feel okay. And she spoke to her boss and said, can we figure something out? It sounds really pathetic, but I need this on a Monday morning. It kind of sets me up for the week. "It helps me offload after the weekend. I feel like I'm connecting to my friends. It is healthy, but also it saves me 50 quid in going to see a counsellor." And we all realize that when we miss out, we're kind of hanging. It's a bit like when you miss your workout routine and you kind of feel like your joints are going, but you need to work your joints just as, and your mind. Your mind as well, yeah. Similarly. And it was just, Yeah, I got, um, I, I now kind of try my best to make sure that I can hit at least the Monday or the Thursday, otherwise I go a little bit bonkers. Yeah, because you know, you, that's, that's the time you have realized it actually helps you to, you know, to share your troubles, you know, your worries, what's happening inside. You have your people you trust and you feel safe around, so that's why it's so easier to open up as well. And, and also sometimes, you know, the conversations like us facing each other can be quite tough to do. But then when you walk, you know, it's just also easier to open up as well, and you don't have to be looking in somebody's eyes and things like that. And you just walk, you focus on, you know, the road forward. You notice the trees, you notice the sunshine, the birds, and it's a little bit of mindfulness as well. So it does help you. So it's very, very good. What I found as well, because I went through quite a tricky period about a year and a half, 2 years ago, and I did these sessions, and sometimes they knew that I was struggling, but they knew that when I was talking, sometimes I would just distract myself by going, okay, I'm gonna go and give the dogs a treat, and they knew it's cos I was just about to, you know, when you get on the edge, but you're still facing forwards, you're wearing your sunglasses, it just kind of worked on so many different levels, but you can kind of distract yourself as well if you kind of need to leave the conversation. To be honest, it just And that just, that totally got me through, and the amount of friends who just use it for the same reason. I've even had a few mums go, "So jealous of your group." I'm like, "But you should join us." I'm like, "Okay." And that's why, you know, it's so important to have your crowd, have your community around you, people you trust, people you can be odd and weird with, people who accept you for who you are. I want to talk, I talk. I don't want to talk, I'll cry with you. You don't want to cry? I'll just give you a hug. And that's all. Or open a bottle of wine. Or even that one. Or two. Or two, yeah. It depends on the issue really. Or the day of the week. And your tolerance, how much you can take. Well, you know, some people have had more practice than others. Some people have had more reasons to get the practice in. It's like that book, Why Mummy Drinks. Have you read that? No. You need to. But this mummy does drink, yeah. I love my wine. Yeah, me too. I don't just stick to wine though. I think it's rude to just kind of say, "Oh, all the other ones should be left alone," you know? I like to make sure that I spread the love with gin and— Oh yeah, the raspberry one. Ah! Have you tried the rhubarb one? No, I haven't tried that one. Oh yeah, it's so good. It reminds you of spring. Oh, I might try it in the springtime. Other gins are also available and helpful. And also espresso martinis work for when you're a bit knackered. Definitely, always. I think we have a friend in common who also likes espresso martinis. Does she work at Discovery by any chance? She does, she does, and she does like espresso martinis. We are coming to the end of today's show. Now, I'm just, I've absolutely loved chatting to you. Hopefully you can come in again and please go and check out Iveta's website at morethanmind.org. And spread the love and make sure that you remind people to come and listen into this show. And you never know who you recommend this show to and it's gonna help them. And it's just all about sharing and caring. Thank you, Nellie. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. And remember, it's okay not to be okay. Cool. I'm very, very okay. 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