Get Booked – Jan McPeake – Transference

Hello, I'm Hazel and this is Get Booked for Women's Radio Station. Today in the studio we have a special Glaswegian treat in store for you, the author of Transference, the dystopian, unputdownable thriller with a Scottish personable edge. A bit like if Kevin Bridges kept on popping up in The Handmaid's Tale. I give to you Jan McPeak. Thanks for traveling to London to meet with us today. How are you? Oh, I'm fine, I'm fine. I love your description. That was quite accurate. It's bang on, isn't it? It really was, yeah. I was just like, I kind of thought it was a little bit kind of like if Ricky Gervais kept on coming in and kind of trying to mess about a little bit, and it's a serious book. It is, it is. I didn't want to keep it too continuously dark. Yeah, I mean, when I first started writing it, obviously with the, the subject is dark enough, um, but when I was— as I was writing it, I was like, it's too dark. You can't continuously keep it in that frame of mind. It was depressing me as a writer. It would depress somebody reading it if it was just constant. So I thought we'll just go with a little bit of humor, just enough to keep it on the cusp but not enough to take away from what's actually happening. But it kind of helps you develop your characters as well, especially in your descriptions of just how sweaty some people were. Now, where'd you get the inspiration for such descriptions of sweatiness and grime? Um, I'm not, I'm not too sure. I've always been quite probably over-descriptive my whole life. Maybe you were destined to be a writer then. Well, yeah, I've been writing since I was 11 years old, so— Oh wow, really? Yeah. But this is your first book? No, well, my first published book, yes. Right, okay. I was writing from the age of 11. I had written a poem and I'd won this poetry competition in Glasgow. They loved it, everybody else loved it, and I thought, I'm going to keep doing this. So just kept writing little poems, little tidbits, not really doing anything too important with writing. Scribbles everywhere, Post-it notes everywhere, pads written everywhere, nothing that made sense to anyone except me. And then I thought, do you know what, I'm going to try and string these together and put them into some form of story. So before Transference, I'd actually written 3 comedy style novels, um, but I haven't— I didn't pursue them. I had an incident with a fake literary agent, shall we say. Oh wow, that's good to know about because there's so many people listening, um, and you want to make sure that although it's not great for you, it's great to kind of warn other people of things to look out for because there's a lot more people wanting to write and getting self-published and sometimes that's the whole euphoria of going, wow, someone's interested, that we sometimes get so excited we gloss over the fact that there's a lot of dodgy people out there. So that's exactly what I'd done, and I was young and I was naive. I was a teenager at the time. I mean, looking back, I actually found the manuscript a couple of months ago and I read it and I was like, what were you thinking? What were you thinking? Why did you actually believe that someone was going to publish this? As you said, I'd obviously been excited and went, yay, I'm not going to wake up, and oh, it was, it was, it was quite um, traumatizing. It was ridiculous. No, it was quite rightfully put in the bin by most literary agents. Um, but this scammer one, as I said, I was quite young and naive, wanted money, and I was just happy and paid a couple hundred pounds. But I mean, it was so bad. It was only that though. Well, I know, but it was so elaborate. His lies were so elaborate, and he would send really detailed emails of people that he had reading it and reviews. And I mean, he put a lot of effort in it for not being a real agent. Do you know what? It makes it feel a little bit better when it's not just a lazy conman. You like it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it was a lazy conman, you'd be like, wow, yes, I fell for that. Yeah. No, no, he put the work in. I mean, I felt as if I should have paid him more for the amount of effort that he put in. I was like, I've shortchanged him. No, you shouldn't. No, you shouldn't. But that was quite bad, that came out, it conned thousands of people all over the world, so it wasn't just me, so I felt quite not so bad about that. But that put me off, that put me off trying to reach out. Didn't stop me writing, but it stopped me reaching out to try and get anybody to read my stuff, so I kept it to myself for a couple of years. But no, definitely keep doing it, But do your homework. You need to do your homework. You can't just— Google people as well if you're not so sure. Google pretty much tells you anything and everything and a lot of nonsense as well, but still. No, you need to do your homework. Don't trust links either, as in it could be a literary website that will say, oh, this link has got Caroline, she deals with XYZ, and you're clicking on it and then just punching over an email. That could have been from 3 years ago. Yeah. So you need to really read who it is, what are they looking for, what do they do, are they accepting manuscripts? Some of them only take them once a year or twice a year. There's no point you sending a comedy over to someone that does sci-fi. So you just need to make sure that you investigate. Put your research in and do it. And scammers, be wary, we are on to you. Oh, he was good. He was good. Good for him. And I'm not even giving him the publicity of telling you his name because I'm hoping he's going to be back under the Rock somewhere. It was many years ago. Well, let's just ignore him and talk about Transference instead. Yes, what we're here for. Yes, it's what we're here for. Tell us a little bit about what's happened. What is Transference? Um, Transference is a disease that is not apparent at first to the protagonist that it's been created by the government, and but that's kind of how the story is led. This disease pops up, it only affects rich children. And so they try— I don't want to say too much about it, but there's a process that they've came up with that they can transfer the disease to poorer children, and the family are left with a million pound as compensation. It's not that it can be transferred to poorer children, it's just they're deemed that they're less worthy. Well, yeah, yeah. And what wasn't one of the lines, um, from the government that they're trying to convince people that it's okay, that you've got to remember all these 'Children are going to be the doctors healing you.' Yes. And the astronauts that are going to go up to different planets to find and make sure that there's a planet habitable enough when we ruin this one completely. You need these rich kids. And so we need to sacrifice other children for the greater good. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Great. Let's all just get right on that. Yeah. Yeah. That's their selling point. Is basically, oh yeah, it's terrible, your child will die, but— Here's a million pounds to take away. Here's a million pounds off your jog, but it's for the greater good. As you said, it's going to be the surgeons and the doctors and the team that's going to find a cure for it. So they're kind of brainwashing them into thinking it's the right thing. Brainwashing them because it's not accurate either. And it's not accurate, yes. But that's again, that's just how, you know, it's the spin doctors, isn't it? Yeah. Wow. It's all— twists and tales, and is it the truth they're telling? Or, you know, that's where D'Sonya and Lauren kind of get thrown, is probably a good word to say, or dragged into. Yeah, yeah. The other thing that I quite liked about the book is how you kind of go back in time as to things that happened to you that made you feel the same way. And it was kind of, it kept feeling like you were going on a little bit more of a journey. You kind of identify with the feelings, especially like when someone felt trapped somewhere, and it was a bit like when you met so-and-so when you were 8 and you'd done something wrong in class and you were embarrassed or whatever. And I kind of like that. How come you decided to go down that route? I just felt that it was the easiest way to portray Lauren and to let the readers get a sense of who she is, what's happened to her, what's led her to be the way she is. But it also introduces the complicated, as you know, relationship with her sister Sarah. Lovely as Sarah is. I think I used something that— words that I couldn't actually say on air when I was describing her to you. But that's good though, that's you getting an actual sense of who she is and what damage she can do. So it must be working if you're— It takes you on a bit of a journey as well with like sibling rivalry, because sometimes we kind of go, my brother's such a pain, or my sister, I'm sure she's evil really. But your book takes us on a completely different journey. Oh yes, yes. I mean, it's not that rare actually for there to be that kind of quite a difficult dynamic between siblings. And as you said, I know what people go, oh, my brother does my head in, la di da, but there is quite difficult relationships out there. And, um, sometimes it does come across as if Lauren's quite desperate with her sister. She's gone through 30-odd years. Yeah, of bullying and bullying, but not of— not of getting what most people see as an automatic kind of love. Yeah, that's there. I mean, as I say, you can't choose your family, you choose your friends. Yeah. Um, but it's supposed to be an automatic love. Yeah. And it's a— she makes her work for her love. Yeah, she for sure makes her work for her love. But I like the wee kind of flashback scenes as well because I feel as if it breaks it up a little bit. As I said about the constant kind of darkness element to it, I mean, it is a dark subject. So especially when she goes— I don't want to give away too much, but when she goes to the hospital and actually sees firsthand what's actually happening to the children or the babies, you kind of I think, yeah, breaking it up a bit, it just gives it that different kind of edge and it's different. Otherwise you're just going to be like every other dystopian novel. You need to find the fine line and you need to kind of put your toe over it, to be honest. Or as you said, it's just every other bog standard story that you could rewrite. But it is touchy, it is quite harrowing at times. I have had that word said to me, harrowing, about the scene you were discussing with the babies. But again, you needed that punch, you needed reminded of, oh yeah, it has been quite cusp, on the cusp, but you need a reminder of what's actually going on, and it is brutal. It's horrible. It's terrible. It's— Great book though. It's— oh, I'm so glad you liked it. So many questions I want to ask you. We've hardly got through any. We're just going to have a quick break, and we will be back in a few minutes with Get Booked and this week's guest, Jan McPeake. WRS, Women's Radio Station, voice of women worldwide. Sarah's Universal Soul Show. What does your soul or spirituality mean to you? Welcome to Future Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Welcome back, I'm Russ Kane. You're listening to In Conversation With on Women's Radio Station. I'm Angie. And I'm Patsy. And we're open. To see what other programs we have on Woman's Radio Station, head to our website, womansradiostation.com. 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Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will Welcome to the second half of today's Get Booked with me, Hazel Butterfield, and Jan McPeak in the studio. Studio, who has just been saying I'm hilarious. I am! Totally hilarious, totally hilarious. Now we are here to discuss your book Transference. I've read the book, I selfie'd with the book. You have on many occasions. Yes, I'm also midway through writing a review for the book for my blog on hazelbutterfield.com. We need to encourage this from all our book-loving listeners to get this on the radar for being made into a film. I think you've got to have quite a few hundred reviews and then basically they start knocking on your door and saying, hey, can we make this? And also you have already promised me, you can't go back on this, as soon as it's made into a film, me and my dog get a part. Oh no, yeah, of course. Yeah, good. I mean, I've got half the cast ready for them. I've promised out so many roles. Oh wow. I've got half the cast, so you know, they just have to come knocking at the door. But I mean, how great a film would they make though? I think it'd be brilliant. It would be. Do you know, You need to make sure that Kevin Bridges is going to be free though, right? Go Kevin! Right, yeah? He always stays along the road from me. But we had to— I don't know him, but he always stays along the road from me. No, you know, it pains me to say it as a writer because I don't think an awful lot of films that are made into films from books, I don't think they are the greatest. Not a lot of— plenty of them are brilliant, like Hunger Games, love them. Fantastic. Like, Wonka was fantastic, but nothing like the book. Yeah, you know, I think it's like, it's a difficult one. You'll get a fantastic one like Hunger Games. I've said it a few times now, but I absolutely love the film. Yeah. And I do, I do like the books, but you get some that are absolutely nothing like it, or just complete nonsense. I'm not going to name names. And ruin it as well. Yeah. Always read the book first just to make sure. Exactly, and they just completely, I think that's probably what's happened with The Hunger Games is I watched it first and then I read the book, so I didn't have, I think that the books are usually always better. Read the book first, get transference, you get it many ways. But my point is I don't usually say, oh, that book would make a better film, this would make a better film, and I do, and I wrote it, but I 100% think this would be, I just think there's a certain element to it it needs to be seen as opposed to read. Would you agree with that? Not until I see the film, I don't know. Oh. Because I still could imagine a lot of it. I mean, it's one of those books where you kind of think, do you know, like maybe a couple of months down the line I'll be like, have I seen the film? And that's a good part of a, that's the part of a good film. I've recently read Warlight by Michael Ondaatje and I can, vision every single scene. And you did do that with, you know, the, the different hospitals and the kind of rooms that they were kind of sneaking into and bunkers and things like that. Um, I'm sure it'd be— I think it will be an excellent film, but I just— I'm yet to find a film that was better than the book. That's why I say that. Yeah, I do. I'm not saying that Hunger Games is better. I'm just saying it's one of the very few ones that I love both. Yeah. Whereas I usually find myself quite flat when I come out from films I think you just expect so much more because your imagination can take you anywhere and you just kind of go, mm, or they change characters or plots or something like that and just kind of ruins it. I don't know, I think they could do a good job with that. So I think a really good director or— Oh, well, we're going to do an all-female kind of team, aren't we? Oh yeah. Great female directors and producers at the Walkers. Get them on the phone and we need to get other fantastic females that I need to give a wee shout out to as well as Taryn, my publisher. She would have been here, but she's so selfish and on holiday. But however, so some people are all me, me, me. And also, can I just point out that although that you've said that my dog's going to get a part, my dog is female. Oh well, there you go, there you go. It writes itself. It just needs to be— I've had to do the op to make sure that we can— Yes, it's just— She's a girl. Check out her Instagram, you can see. I do, follow her Instagram. She's the only animal I follow. For what? Charlie bit the dust. Charlie bit the dust. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, Taryn is amazing. I mean, before— I'll try and keep this side of the story short for you. Good luck with that. I know, I can't help it. I'm Scottish, I just like to talk. But I had a really good friend, as you've probably seen in the front end of Dedication, my friend, which is Scottish slang for friend. Scottish slang. I just thought it was time we did it. You skimmed over it. The dedication to me. Barry Jane McLachlan. And then my big friend James. Oh yeah, okay. Yeah. It's all thanks to those two ultimately, because James, I'd known James for 17 years and he was always there for me. I mean, it didn't matter what I was doing, baking, trying to chat someone up, didn't matter, James would always have your corner. And he always had my corner. Oh, he was great. I just, I miss him so much. And I promise I won't cry. But he always picked me up, always kept me going. And I was actually gonna just give up 'cause I had so many rejections coming through for Transference. And nothing was nasty. I mean, if anybody ever came back and said, "Look, seriously, give up, stop your writing," I would've stopped. But they were all just like, "It's not our time," or, "We're not taking anybody on. We don't think you're a good fit." the story's a good fit. And it wasn't anything bad about the writing, but it's just, you know, there's a difference between a published author and an unpublished author— determination and, you know, willingness to go back and be— yes, constantly told no, no, no, and then eventually someone goes, yeah, go on then. And nobody— I mean, the closest I got was, um, an agent in Chicago had approached me with thinking about selling the concept, right? But not actually— I don't know what their plans were, if they were going to use another author or somebody else. I don't know. Yeah, I said no. Yeah, um, I thought, I'm not, I'm not at that stage yet where I'm desperate enough to just, oh, get it out there. I still want to keep it. It's my baby, I wrote it. Um, so I said no, that— but that's the closest I got. And I was getting these rejections in and I was just it gets to you. It does get to you. So I went for lunch with James and I was like, oh, do you know what, I can't do this anymore. I'm just gonna give it up. I'm not doing it anymore. I'm not sending out any more manuscripts. And of course, in his traditional, normal Scottish way, James was like, ah, shut your trap. Yeah, shut up. Shut your trap. And I was like, what? And he's like, shut up. He says, look, you're going to be the most famous lassie for the drum. Drumchapel, that's where I'm originally from. So just shut your trap and go on with it. We will be putting subtitles up on this show if anybody needs it. Yes, we will translate it for you. How would we do that? I've no idea. But no, I'm from this place in Glasgow called Drumchapel. I stay in Mulguy now, but I'm from Drumchapel. And when people talk about it, they call it the Drum for short. And he's like, "Ah, you'll be the most famous lassie for the Drum. So you will, you'll do us proud." And I was like, No, James, I can't, I can't. But I thought, you know what, okay, we'll see what happens. And that was a Monday, and he died on a Tuesday. Oh, I know. And, um, sorry, I'd still get upset when I talk about him. So, um, but that's somebody that has ultimately, uh, helped you get to where you are right now, which is important. And it's, it's one of those things that you need people in your corner. And, um, I think there's so much that you have to go through, and in a book you kind of bare your soul, and you've got to do a lot yourself as well. I mean, even the marketing, I mean, this must come naturally to you because the whole concept of everyone sending selfies and you're on it on Instagram, you are, you know, and you seem to be, didn't you get, you got John Thompson? Yes. Oh, to do the selfie. Sweet. You know, you're fighting for it, and you are going for it. Going for it. Does it come this naturally to you? Someone told you what to do? No, no, this is just me. This is, um, Taryn. When I got that phone call from Taryn saying, look, I've got your manuscript, I love it, I'm going to give you a traditional publishing contract, we're going to make this happen and it's going to take the world by storm— that was Taryn's words— and I was so happy. And I said to her, I said, I've always said from the beginning, if somebody gave me a chance, they're going to get 100% from me. All the way. I'm not going to just sit back and, yeah, she'll do her publishing and— oops, sorry— she'll do her side of things. So we called that earlier, didn't we, the Glaswegian Italian way where the hands are flying around? I like it, it's expressive. I'm wassooing everyone in the studio with my octopus hands here. Sorry, I'd hate it if you were sitting on your hands. Don't do that, it's boring. So if you hear random noises, it's just me hitting the mic all over the place. But no, No, I promised her that she wouldn't be doing it herself. I know that's her job, technically, is to get the book out there and get everybody to know it, but I'm not naturally that type of person. I can't just sit back on anything. Be gracious, be a fighter, go for it. If you want something, you've got to keep on going for it. You need to, you can't just let it, it's my baby. I can't just sit back and not do anything. I think it's a brilliant story. It's took me a long time Took me a long time to write it. How long? It took me, it probably took me about 3 years. Right, okay. I know in theory it's not a long time, but I had illnesses and a child and things in between, you know. Kids get in the way. I know, they're so selfish. But you've got to remember, when you've done a really good book, now you're going to be told, "I want another one in 6 months." Well, I've got, it was never my intention to do a sequel. The Transference, it was never my intention for that. I tried to finish it in a way— Is there a sequel coming? There is! Yes! I tried to finish it in a way where there wouldn't be a sequel, but I've just had too many requests and my mind's just went into overdrive now. I love that, that is absolutely brilliant. There will be a sequel in 2019. Well, we need to make sure that when you do the sequel, you come back in again, 'cause we've got through about 1.5 of the 10 questions, 10 points that I actually wanted to get through. Imagine that, and I didn't even get to do my glasses. Lithuanian accent. Oh, they are so missing out on that. It is terrible. You really should have heard it. She so doesn't mean it. Right, everybody, I'm gonna get all the links up on Twitter and Instagram. Go and check out the Instagram @getbookedwrs. Thank you for joining us today and listening in to me and Jan Peek shooting the breeze about Transfer, and she's going to be back with us in 2019 with the sequel, so hurry up and Get the book, get cracking. I'm Hazel Butterfield, and this is Get Booked for Women's Radio Station. Thank you. Welcome to Women's Radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. Hungry? An average woman eats about 2 to 3 kilos of lipstick in her lifetime. Women's Radio Station, we want to hear from you. This is Women's Radio Station, you're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism, and my guest today is Karen Nunn. I listen to Women's Radio Station. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. 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