Get Booked – Marian Dissard Not Me

Hello, I'm Hazel, and welcome to today's Get Booked radio show here in our Covent Garden studio, supporting women's emotional well-being. Opening discussions and offering support via amazing writers and listeners and book enthusiasts and a little bit of anybody and everything. And today I have joining me in the studio author, singer, a little bit of everything, Marianne Dessart. Have I pronounced that correctly? You've done a great job, Hazel. Was that pretty good? Yeah, that was pretty good as well. Okay, we're winning. Very, very glad to be here. So we are here to discuss predominantly your book Not Me. Yes. Would you like to tell us a little bit more about, um, what this book is about? About Not Me? I'll tell you all about Not Me. It's a really fine way of not talking too much about me, really, to write a book called Not Me. It's a memoir. I wrote it over the past 5 years, uh, taking long breaks for touring, recording, and just, uh, getting into deeper trouble that I can talk about in the next book. But this one is a memoir about my struggle with eating disorders and how I left my home in Tucson, Arizona, and somehow very circuitously ended up in Ramsgate, England. It's a natural progression for most people, from the desert to the seaside. Yes, definitely. I think a lot of people are going to be wondering why, um, your Tucson accent is so French. Well, unbeknownst to most, there is 2 or 3 French people in Tucson, and we do tend to preserve our cultural heritage. Yes, I was born in France and I moved to the States when I was 16, or I got moved. My parents decided it was a good idea. Which is kind of where it all started, all kind of— Yes, and I talk about it in the book. I mean, I was a really regular teenager at 16 in southwestern France in a little village, just trying to figure out life and love and how to, you know, ace my exams pretty much. But then I got to Arizona, to Phoenix, Arizona, and in the '80s, it was 1985, In the '80s, Phoenix was growing. It was like this fungus in the middle of the desert. Nothing was gonna stop it. Nothing has stopped it. And when I got into high school, the very first day, I remember there was one thing that struck me is all this waify, thin, blonde women, girls my age, 16, 17, having the most ludicrous breakfast of Diet Pepsi. That was it. That was breakfast. So everybody was a lot more messed up than I wasn't, I was just French. Well, just French. The thing is though, it is, it's an American culture, all these fizzy drinks, whereas, you know, I do a lot of open water swimming and they say that when you've been swimming in the Thames or in all these lakes and things like that, neck a can of Coke afterwards, 'cause it kills anything that you might have accidentally ingested because it's that poisonous. And yet people are having it for breakfast and you wonder why. Diet Coke, yes, Diet Coke, which you're supposed to— You're supposed to, if you have any ailments in your stomach, you're supposed to take that. It also cures the inside, supposedly. Because it kills off anything that's wrong. I mean, basically to sell that stuff, which is basically nothing with fizz, you're gonna have to invent magical powers to it. So when I got to Arizona and I saw everybody was wielding their magical bottle of nothing, then I thought, well, maybe that's the thing to do out here. And it just went on. I mean, the school cafeteria was basically, the choice was French fries, chips, sorry, and burgers or pizza with everything else. So we're quite bilingual though in the UK, so we understand, you know, all the— French fries. No, I'm not because I had to adapt to chips. I keep slipping, you know, going, okay. So that's the environment I had to adapt to. And I think it's a very normal reaction from anybody. You move to a different country, you want to adjust at some point. Yeah, fit in. Yes. And before I actually became American, I actually had my passport. When people would ask me, what's your name? I would say Marianne and just try to like nasalize it and make it sound American. But the minute I had my papers, it was like, it's Marianne, deal with it. Yeah, I'm American, you know. If you can't take that, box ticked. I'm now gonna do this my way. Yes, exactly. I start singing. Well, and you are a singer. Yes, I am a singer. That came to me very late. First I was a filmmaker, so I went to Los Angeles and ran into even more troubled people when it comes to eating because it's all image, image, image. That was the epitome of it. If you don't run into trouble in LA, have you actually really been to LA? No. So, I mean, you've definitely lived an interesting life, but, you know, quite often It's a bit of a curse. You mean I survived an interesting life? You survived an interesting life. But some of these things quite often go hand in hand with being in the media, you know, singing and LA and places like, I mean, LA is so image-focused, but it's also, especially over the last 10, 15 years, it's become a little bit more everything's green tea, green juice. Oh yeah, kombucha and yoga classes, of course. I mean, it used to be wannabe actors were pouring your drinks at the bar, but now they're all, you know, stretching you your thighs and ligaments in yoga classes. And making sure you have your turmeric shot at the same time. Yes, yes, keeping you in check. Yeah. Ready, waiting at the line. And so you went from being a filmmaker to— what was the transition from being a filmmaker to singer, which is French jazz, right? No, let's see. The transition was that I always written poetry ever since I was a kid, a 6-year-old. I was moved by words, and I never thought of it as a— or was told by my parents that it was a worthy pursuit. Imagine that. Yes, my kid, you're going to grow up and be a poet. That's such a fantastic pursuit. So I put that on the back burner, became a filmmaker. But then when I met the man who became my husband in the mid-'90s, he was a guitar player. So I decided the best way to woo him was to write him lyrics. Or just to rebrand my poetry as lyrics. So that got me into music. And then little by little, and I was completely camera shy or anything, I would not have stepped up in front of a microphone, but somehow it got to me or I got to it. And you have to learn once you're there to deal with projection, being a projection screen for other people, which as a woman, it comes with the territory. We're so used to that. It's like you're just supposed to be a blank screen for men or anybody to project onto you. And I was I wasn't really conscious of that until much later. I'm just still coming to terms with that. But as a performer, this is what you're selling. But when you get on the stage, you do take on, yeah, quite a different persona, don't you? Yes, I can be quite powerful. So it's not French jazz, it's sung in French. I've sung quite a bit in French, but I've recorded in America. So the energy of that American roots rock, indie rock is there. Uh, so it's, it's quite a hybrid. Of course, I wouldn't want it any other way. You are actually doing a tour in September and October. Yes. Are you gonna join? I— yes, actually, I was sent some details. Um, I'm just trying to figure out because I really want to go to Deal because I've never been before, and I really wanted to do that one, but it's midweek, so I'm struggling to get there. No, it's not, it's Saturday, the 28th. Oh, that's a Saturday. Oh yeah, well then I can do that one. All right, what was it? Because I was looking— oh, that was it, because I was looking at Whitstable because I love Whitstable. I wanted to take my friend. No, that's midweek. Yeah. So it's a walking tour for the book, for the book release, which, you know, I've done tours with music and musicians. I've even done a tour with a donkey in the Pyrenees once when my second album came out. Of course you did. Yeah. And I've survived it. I don't know if the donkey was too happy about it because I'm a slave driver. But this one is a walking book tour. So I decided instead of just showing up at a bookshop or a Waterstones with 2 people who happened to be there and both of them working, that it would be a lot more exciting to just sort of build this frame. We have this saying in America, you build it, they come, they will come. So I just built this tour and people are invited to join with guest speakers also from Beat, the charity, eating disorder, the main charity in the UK. So they've sent a few ambassadors. We're going to talk about eating disorders also. And the reading, of course, from the book will cover that issue. But the venues are very different. It goes from a bookshop to the, to the Gulbenkian in Canterbury to a fort, an ancient fort from the 19th century. It's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, it's good. People can go and find out more about the tour on mariondessart.com. But yeah, it starts on the 26th. Ramsgate, Deal, then Dover and Folkestone. And then in October, you've got Canterbury, Faversham, Whitstable, which is where I went the other weekend. So I now know that I didn't need to go to that date. No, because I was like, I really want to go to Whitstable. Come to Deal. Yeah, come to Deal and Margate and Broadstairs. Yeah, yeah, 10 days, 10 cities. It couldn't have been booked better. It's a round circle around East Kent. And are you going to be walking to these venues or are you going to be using your boat? No, the boat has sold on to a different owner now. What, really? Yes, well, I gotta pay for the next album, so I, you know, sell whatever I gotta sell. Oh, that's how it happens. I I know it's heartbreaking, believe me. Do you live like in a stationary location? No, I don't really live anywhere. I just rely on the kindness of friends and strangers alike. Well, at least there's still mobility in that. Absolutely. Oh my God. I mean, I am living out of one suitcase and I thought I was done with that. It was part of finishing the book also and coming to terms with the difficulties and the stress and the anxieties of living a life as a touring musician where you're always on the run. You are living out of a suitcase. So I thought I had, you know, grown up and gotten wiser and calmer. I'm really scared about asking this question. Please. What about the cat? The cat is with my parents. Okay, fine. Yeah, I mean, you follow the cat throughout the book because the cat came from Tucson when I moved to Paris and became a yoga teacher, a story I tell in the book. And so we spent a year with a cat in a Paris apartment, which is the worst thing to do to a cat, to used to roaming with coyotes and etc. So, you know, it was sort of breaking my heart. I felt very guilty. Well, at least the parents are there, you know, as long as it's got— Parents are funny. They don't want cats and the day they get them, oh my God, I couldn't give it, I couldn't take it back. They will fight for a cat. My mum was a bit like that when I ditched a Jack Russell on her and then she's like, I was like, fine, I'll take it back. She goes, no, no, I'm fine to keep it. No, no, I'm fine to take the dog back. No, I want to keep the dog. I love it. You dumped it on me, now I love it. No, they have to replace us with something. Yeah, I mean, we're so hard to replace, right? Uh, we're just gonna go over to our first set. We like to think we'll go over to our first set of ads. We'll be back in a couple of minutes. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything fertility, pregnancy, birth, and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. Hello, my name is Ingrid Marsh on Women's Radio Station, and coming soon is the Radical Wellbeing Show. To help support women's wellbeing, each show I share the airwaves with ordinary women like me and you doing extraordinary things. Women who have overcome huge obstacles in their lives who are now here with me to empower you. On the Radical Wellbeing Show, you'll be inspired to kick away the roadblocks and live your life to the fullest. If you're ready to get radical about your well-being, then this is the show for you. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci, and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo, and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own, and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website at MediaMattersForWomen.org. You're listening to Women's Radio Stations supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Stations creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadioStation, that's Women's Radio Station, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Hi and welcome back to the next section of Get Booked. I'm Hazel and I have joining me in the studio Marianne with her book Not Me, a rather interesting front cover that we have there. Yes, what do you think of that? I love it. Do you know what, I normally keep all my books up on the shelf but I've kept this out on the table just just for people to actually look and ask me about it because I just think it's quite unique. Yes, the designer Jimmy Keenan is from London and I'm a big, big fan of his work and I didn't think he would, you know, care to work on such a little project. But my God, when he came up with that idea, it took me 2 weeks of not answering his email because I was in such shock. It took me a while to accept that cover. But it's perfect now. I could not imagine anything else. It's grown on you. Yes, it has grown on me. Yeah, yeah. What I tend to do is I put up a link to all the different books as well upon the Women's Radio Station resources site, so I'll make sure that it's up there as well. But it is all over social media as well, and they can see it on your website as well. Now, we've been talking about just in general the book and your journey, but what I really want to focus on in this section is eating disorders. Absolutely. What happened? I want to know about, you know, you did make a very definitive decision all of a sudden to just go, I'm going to stop. I wish it was that simple. I wish it was. It's not. It's not. It's not. And everybody who's struggled with any sort of thing they want to stop or even start, you know, we all have good resolutions in January to start doing yoga or to stop smoking or to start exercising more or to call our mom more often. But you can't just make the decision to suddenly stop throwing up. No, it doesn't work like that. I think you just have to make the decision that, or to just step on the mat and just showing up every day will do the job eventually. You can't give up on yourself 'cause everybody's gonna give up except a few choice people, which I hope everybody has in their lives. But yeah, you just gotta keep showing up. What I found quite interesting in this book is, I mean, I have a few friends with eating disorders, and, and like you, they've had them for 10, 15 years. Um, and sometimes it's not just a case of not doing it because it's not really in your control. Even if you do eat, because your body's not used to it, it's, it's painful. Your stomach gets distended. Um, your body's not used to processing certain— yeah, food items. No, it's very true. And you can't really do that on your own. If you really want to get better, you gotta have a team. And, you know, I started, uh, being an— I was an anorexic in 1985, '86, '87 in Phoenix, Arizona, which we had just talked about. Um, and there was no help. There was no online— actually, there was no internet at the time, so the information wasn't there. Nobody was talking about it. I'd not heard even the word anorexia until years later. It just wasn't there except girls especially girls, were dropping like flies. They would faint because they didn't eat in class, etc. So we all knew something was off, but we didn't have the words for it. And we didn't also understand what was going on behind that person. It's not just that they wanted to be thin. They— it's— they couldn't help. They couldn't help but be— or to go that direction. It's something that just takes over you. I mean, anorexia Bulimia, bingeing, purging is fairly different. But, you know, it's the same thing. You cannot help yourself. And I'm trying to remember what anorexia felt like, really, because it was a short period in all my eating disorder life of 30-something years. It was just 6 months. But what it felt like was control. I'm in charge. Everybody's trying to tell me what to do. Well, I'm just going to do that because that's how I want to feel. Well, it's not about wanting to be thin sometimes, although sometimes it You know, it's a protection. It's a defense. The world was coming at me. I was 16. You know, I just talked about being a projection screen. That's the age where you start being a sexual being. You become a woman. And so the expectations are changing and you're supposed to grow into just be somebody and you have no idea what you're going to be. So it just sounds like a solution at the time. Like, I'm going to control that. It was a high. It's a complete high. And in your head, you— I mean, I remember hallucinating. And that was fun. I bet it was. No, I mean, it's the same thing, you know, we took drugs in our teenage years and it was for the same exact reasons. Like, oh my God, there's something beyond the walls of this room and I want to experience it. And but also there's so much to do with eating disorders to do with— it's to do with punishment. And there's so much going on in the world today that people can't control. And I'm not talking teenagers, I'm talking everybody. I mean, you know, politicians have come out as saying, you know, Gordon Brown was bulimic. And you just— it's to do with, in a world where you are not in control of what's happening to you, if there's something you can control. And this is why we need to just focus on it as a, as a mental wellness issue. Absolutely. And there's a lot in this book that kind of— you, you're not promoting it, you're not glorifying you, not because it's not something to promote or glorify. It is just explaining what's going on. But the more people understand, yeah, the more people won't be scared to come forward and say they're struggling. Because you yourself, you said that you, you were pushing people away because you didn't want them to know and you didn't want to have to explain something that you couldn't necessarily explain yourself. Absolutely. But then you get loneliness because people are like, oh, she's not even going to speak to me anyway. And that's the vicious circle. And really, that, that Isolation feeds the disorder, any disorders. So I couldn't break out of that until I had come clean to myself first, to others, and then seeing that, you know, there was acceptance because everybody understands to some level, to some point what it means. But people relate. But that's like Alcoholics Anonymous, the 11 steps. You've got to admit it. You've got to apologize. You got to do it. It's an addiction. It took me a while to admit it. You know, like 30 years or something. Yeah, that's a long time. I'm stubborn. I'm very stubborn. I get that from you. I like that. I'm quite stubborn as well. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. So, yeah, anorexia is one thing. And then to get over that, I had to find other ways to run away, to hide or to control. But binging and purging becomes this brain chemistry at some point that you can't get over. It's just a hook. I mean, it's a pure addiction. It is. And interestingly, I mean, you've blatantly got an addictive personality. You've replaced one thing with another thing with another thing. And when you didn't quite know what to do, you moved to a different country or you kind of ditched that person or you did that. And trust me, I completely understand it. But then you replace one addiction with, let's be honest, yoga. Yeah, well, yoga is a double— actually, it is an addiction. Like sport can be an addiction because it gets you high on some good feelings, of course, and also give you that sense of control that you know what you're doing and you're doing it and it fills up a few hours and it fills up your life and you don't have to think about anything else. Although I've always been reluctant to dig in and to dive into the spiritual aspect, the community aspect, the, oh my God, we're so all of us. Enlightened because we are doing yoga. I just don't buy that stuff. But so you're not an affirmations kind of person? No, I mean, I'm— that's the French in me, despite having lived in America for so long. I just can't. So it's because I'm a doubter. I will question, and the book is a big question. It's not giving any answer. It's not telling you you're going to be fine if you do this, this, and that, that you're going to be fine if you start doing more yoga. Or it's just a process, and it's a existential quest, and that matters to me more than the specifics of being a yoga teacher or doing yoga or anything like that. Well, yoga is a lot. I mean, I do yoga a lot. I do too. I still do. I'm not spiritual, um, and I did actually study to be a yoga teacher, and I am actually— I, I'm qualified to be a yoga teacher, but I just, I don't do it because I don't want to on board with all the other bits. I like doing the actual practice, but I feel like a bit of a fraud if I walk into a room and, you know, I'm like— No, I mean, it's anything. You just show up and you end up becoming a teacher at some point. Yeah. If students are looking out to you, again, this projection screen which we have to deal with, all of us, it's like, what are they expecting of me? What do I expect of them? That really matters. And if you're really true with what you want to give and the doubts you have, then you can really teach something. Yeah, I think you're right, actually. So basically what I said is just absolute nonsense. I just, I just, I do, you know, I have my friends come over, we do it quite a lot, um, and I love it. That's just, I like the strength I get, I like how I feel afterwards. I feel like it's like a bit of a control-alt-delete, that if you feel a little bit, uh, or something's going on, you just kind of sit in and chilling, and you know, the, the right teacher just puts you at ease, and your body feels like it's just been cracked in every way, and you just absolutely— and it feels great. And God, please let us all feel that way, because that's It's really important. Being a teacher is a whole different trick because you have to be able to give of yourself and it's not for everybody. It's a responsibility. It's a responsibility. So, I mean, I didn't have any other responsibility at the time when I became a teacher. So it became for me a way to work on that sense of belonging. I think that's pretty much what I was meaning, that I find it too much responsibility to encompass everything that I think 'somebody might require of me being a teacher.' It's a job. Yeah. It's a job. You've got to give it 100% or not. And that's why I stopped teaching after that, because— no, I had to go back to writing and doing music. Just when your classes were starting to get filled up again. I know, I was starting to get good. I was starting to get good. Yeah, right. Do you not think you would go back to it? No, I don't think so, because the days keep getting shorter as I get older, and there's only so much time for doing, you know, that second and third book I want to write before I die and the 2 or 3 albums I still have to record. It's that simple. So it's the other books that I want to discuss in the next section. I mean, very shortly we're going to be going over to another ad break. But yeah, I want to be talking, I want to talk a little bit more about your tours and the albums, what albums are going to be coming. And I want to find out just what are these next books? And I want to find out what your favorite books as well. Okay. Do you read quite a bit at the moment? Right now, yes. Brilliant, brilliant. That's quite handy because you're in a lot of bookshops as well doing all your tours. No, I just read the same book over and over again, Anna Karenina. Oh really? Yes. Well, at least I know that one of the three favorite books are gonna be— right, we're just gonna go over to a couple of ads. We'll be back in a couple of minutes and I'll We still have Marianne in the studio. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's well-being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money, or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start. At empowerandenrich.org, you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me at empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Anne Callaghan. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months, I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops shops interviewing customers asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip for our listeners. The most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on Women's Radio Station. It's Mother's Hour. If like me you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together. With spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories, it will be a refreshing, honest, and funny look at being a mum. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss? Illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turn2us.org.uk. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand with a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs. We can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com. Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. To the second half of today's Get Booked. I'm Hazel Butterfield and we are chatting away to Marianne de Sade, the author of Not Me. We have been talking about yoga because it's a main part of the book. Now I'm going to show you a picture. This is a picture I put together because I do yoga at home, my friends come over and we all do it together. Now There's different styles of yoga that I do, and I want you to see if you can figure out what each of these styles are. Oh, it's dog yoga. Absolutely. Yeah. And chocolate yoga and— No, it's not chocolate yoga. It's in there. Chocolologa? No. Ch stands for cheese yoga. Cheese yoga. So BL is what? Is Bloody Mary yoga. Oh, I heard about wine yoga. Is that the first one? The Woga? Yeah, the Woga. Yeah, I think yoga I've definitely tried. Cheese one I haven't tried. You need to. Yeah, and the goat one I haven't tried either. Ah, do you know what? That's a famous one. I can't get goats in my house, so that, that's yoga. It's not actually the goat, it's Jin yoga. Ah, Jin, okay. So basically I have a little, um, picture that I made using Canva, um, which are special yoga styles that me and my friend, uh, who's also a friend, she's She put these together, she's from Annalsie, and we do these, and we do a mixture of doga, woga, yoga, choga, and blooga. In the same session? It depends on— Gin and wine and cheese. Sometimes it's gin. Yeah. Sometimes it's wine, sometimes it's wine and cheese, sometimes it's just with the dog because we just decide, we quite often do it on a Tuesday. It sounds like the social hour I need in my life. Yeah, you do, you do. This is great. But the blooga is generally on a Saturday. If we're busy on a Tuesday, then we have Bloody Marys and do yoga, so that's blooga. I love how you're taking over your own practice. I think that's really important. And as a teacher, that was really my whole thing, which, uh, you know, left a few of my students, um, baffled, is that I would not want them to be led. I need to get them the tools so they can teach themselves, so they can take it over from me. I like that. It's very important. I'm not quite sure where that came from, but if there's any philosophy of my yoga teaching, is basically forget about me, stop listening to me. You be— and you know what, it's really important in yoga class because how many students and teachers will tell you, oh, I got hurt, I gotta stop yoga because I really got hurt doing this and that pose and I overdid it. It's like, if there is one thing you need to learn in a yoga class, any physical practice, is to listen to your own body. If you're coming at it with the same mind frame that you had in your office of like, okay, I'm being told things, I'm supposed to fit into that box, no. This is the time where you just check out and check in with your body. So I loved it when I was a teacher to see students go, you know what, I'm going to check out of this pose. And I hated it as a student when the teacher would come and say, put their hand on my hips and go, go deeper. I'm like, no, I am not going to let you do that because I know my body. And if I'm not learning that in class, no point. But I like that. It's an encouragement actually to have strength in knowing yourself and knowing your body and knowing your limits as well, but also you know. Well, that's the strength that doesn't go away as you get older. You're losing your muscle, your flexibility, etc., you know. But the one thing you can learn is how to sort of know who you are. One thing that I remember you saying as well in your book actually is that when you stopped— you went through at least, at least 10 weeks of not throwing up. It's the beginning of— 14. 14. Yeah. And you— but as gaining weight, your muscles were doing different things when you're doing yoga, which made it easier for you to understand what was happening to other people's bodies as well. Yes, I had to learn a little bit of compassion for myself and for others. And I couldn't— I mean, I was so well trained, you know, every muscle was functioning. I was really in tip-top shape from doing yoga every day, from going through the teacher training that I don't think I understood my students and their needs. And it was in Paris, so I had a lot of women come up to me and say, you know, I'd really like to do yoga, but I don't want to get any muscles. And it's not the look in Paris. You want to be, you know, you want to be stress-free. Everybody wanted to be stress-free coming to classes, but they didn't want to bulk up like American yoginis that I know in the studios where I trained in Arizona. You know, the girls were tattooed and had big muscles, and that's not a Paris look. No, no, it isn't. So you kind of had to take in a little bit from there and a little bit from there and kind of, you know, you got to make it work. You gotta, yeah, make sure you have the tools to be understood. What I would like to know is anybody who, um, is possibly suffering with an eating disorder, or you, or somebody who knows that their friend is suffering with an eating disorder, do you have any tips of what people can say? Besides reading my book? Well, not for people to read the book as well, obviously. Well, the friends, I mean, people are asking themselves, what can I do to help my friend? They need to get the information also before they start barging in and saying, you know, you need to do this or that. Don't scare people. That's the start. You got to get that information for yourself. I mean, again, the same thing I was trying to teach my students, like, learn. Put in your hours learning who you are and what that person might need. And there is information out there now. There are charities with tons of links, tons of online information, resource networks. I, I, me, my personality would be to just say it as it is and to confront people, which is not the best policy at times. I mean, the book is pretty raw. I'll tell it how it is. I was going to say quite raw, and a lot of the information that people get online is quite safe. Yes. Whereas at least this is an insight into what's going through your head. Yeah. And you made the decision to change things, and whoever's going through any process of addiction or any sort of issues, they have to make the decision themselves. Obviously other people can help people make that decision, but it cannot be forced upon somebody, which is why the book helps, because it's not sitting there going, oh, I just 'You know, I wanted a sandwich,' but you actually talk through the process and why you felt this way and the panic of how a day had to be planned out if you were going to eat something because you need to make sure you could get home again. Or it's getting inside somebody's brain who's gone through it for, you know, decades. Yeah, you can't understand what it feels like because it's just mad to be devoting that much time to managing something that doesn't need to be managed. And I mean, to me, I'm very proud I wrote the book. I'm very glad I came clean and came out about this disease. But oh my God, there is a deep rage inside of me as to the time I've wasted and the years I've wasted hiding and recovering and doing it again. It's just never stopped. And the amount of food you've wasted as well. And didn't you say you would be able to fill your whole barge that used to be yours full of food? Oh, I could have. Yeah, definitely. If you start putting into waste, I could have fed a small town, you know, years, for years with all the food. You went to Madrid at one point just after you'd stopped. Yeah. Were trying your best to stop throwing up, and, and you— well, you had stopped, and you came across these amazing fish dishes, and you were kind of going, oh my God, this is delicious! The finest restaurant in Madrid. Yeah, of course. And obviously, life to be enjoyed. You were affronted that your friend had Doritos and Toblerone instead of eating a meal, and you're like, how could you possibly do this? But do you now appreciate food? Do you like food? Do you get excited by it? Yeah, I love food. I don't cook for myself because I've not lived with anybody or had to feed any children. So what I cook, the way I cook, is very simple. I put something in the pressure cooker and if it starts smelling like it's burning, it's probably ready. I mean, I work a lot. I work from home, so I'm always juggling a few balls, and cooking is definitely not where I get my relaxation. I'd rather go on a walk by the, you know, the seaside and walk Ramsgate to Broadstairs than spend, you know, hours. And also it has to do with the nomadic lifestyle. I don't have the spices around, I don't have the tools. It's never really my kitchen, so it's fine. I remember when, um, I was in a situation that was— it was not particularly pleasant, but, um, it meant that I didn't have all my stuff around me. I was kind of in limbo in this house for a bit that— where I knew I wasn't going to stay. Yeah. So I didn't unpack everything, and I'm a cook. I love cooking all the time. I cook for my kids, cook for anybody, you name it. I mean, I— it was quite common for people to just be in a pub and suddenly go, oh, let's go into Hazel's. Hazel, should we do dinner? I'm like, yeah, cool. And they'll go, well, let's go to the shop. Like, no, I will figure something out. There's 10 of us, I can put a meal for 10 together. And I would be happy as Larry. And I kind of like my little— I like having people around, but I like my space as well. So I would sit there with loads of people around, sitting around the dinner table. I'm sitting in the kitchen necking a bottle of wine and cooking, and I love it. And I like people going, oh my God, that was amazing. But I— they get to chat to themselves and I get to be left on my own. Yes. And I love it. And for the time when I didn't have all that stuff around me to cook, and it was a pretty rubbish situation anyway, I didn't get my therapy of cooking. The— if I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed or whatever, I crack open, you know, a bottle of, um, red or something, or fizz, and I will cook. I'll cook for my kids. I will cook my packed lunch for the next day. I will make some snacks for the people in the office. I will do this, I'll do this, and there'll be about 6 different things. And then I will suddenly see that I've got some nectarines that are about to go off, so I will make smoothies for the next day, and I will freeze other bits. And then I will make sure that there's certain stuff left that I could make a chutney out of, and I'll have about 8 different things on the go. And that, to me, me, resets me. Yes. And I'm happy. And everybody has their thing. Yes. And that's mine. That is your responsibility. I had for a bit responsibility as a teacher where I was giving to people, not just to myself, but— and not just taking from people, but giving to people. And that's— cooking is the thing that you do so beautifully. And we all have that. It doesn't need to be yoga. It doesn't need to be the latest trend. It could be walking in nature, it could be having an allotment, it could be meeting with friends. Poetry. Poetry, anything. Singing. Enjoying friends at the pub. I mean, that is a good gift to have, to be able to sing at the pub karaoke. Yeah, I'd love to do that. It's, you know, being social as well, having people around you. Essential, essential. I mean, the reason why I ended up in Ramsgate stayed in Ramsgate was that I found a little community there. Surprisingly, I had no idea what Ramsgate was like. I mean, I've not been there. Well, I had a boat there and that's why I originally went there, but instead of taking the boat to Liverpool or across the ocean, I just decided to stay put because there were musicians, there were artists, there were my people. We were just completely mastering a Liverpool accent not so long back before you came into the studio. Now I digress, we're just going to go over to the last just a couple of adverts and then we'll be back in a couple of minutes. Time flies. It does. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishcon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest guest talking about women's reproductive health. Everything fertility, pregnancy, birth, and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. Hello, my name is Ingrid Marsh on Women's Radio Station, and coming soon is the Radical Wellbeing Show. To help support women's wellbeing, each show I share the airwaves with ordinary women like me and you doing extraordinary things. Women who have overcome huge obstacles in their lives, who are now here with me to empower you. On the Radical Wellbeing Show, you'll be inspired to kick away the roadblocks and live your life to the fullest. If you're ready to get radical about your wellbeing, then this is the show for you. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci, and I'm the executive director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo, and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own, and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website at mediamattersforwomen.org. You're listening to Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadioStation, that's Women's Radio Station, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Well, it is here, our final section of today's Get Booked. I'm starting to think that I should start recording what we say off air when the ads are on because it gets just— it gets even deeper and more interesting, doesn't it? I think we were just being, uh, quizzical about yoga classes that cost cost £30. Yes, we were wrong. It can be wrong. Yeah. Oh, and do you know what, because there was such an interesting point that you came out with, and when somebody came for a class where she was supposed to make a donation and she didn't realize that it was compulsory, that of a minimum of £5. There was an issue of money, definitely. That person trying to get to a class that would supposedly make her feel better was really stressed out about getting there on time, first of all, because you got to think, yoga studios, they start on time, they lock the door if you're not there at the minute. That stressful. We don't need that extra stress in life, and it costs money, which is even more stressful. Well, yeah, but the thing is, she came at it badly, and she was a bit rude and disconcerting and everything. And then, yeah, I didn't want to say that. I'll say it. And then she just left, and then you kind of went, oh, she was rude, and it kind of put you out of sorts a little bit. But also, she just needed— she probably needed yoga more than anybody else there, and you should have probably put the €5 in yourself. And I was like, that's That's not where I would have gone with that, but you are totally right. I should have put myself on the line. I mean, if I'm learning anything from yoga, from this process of recovery that I detail in the book, it's like just be gentle, not just to yourself but to other people. That's the whole point of being gentle to yourself, is you can actually open up to the world and to everything else there is to fix beside yourself. It's, it's definitely multifaceted, isn't it? Oh yeah, never stops. Now what I want to— we have just raced through the last 45 minutes. I've got a couple of questions for you that I really think I should get in there. What are your favorite books? I think I already know one of them, which is— Well, I've been reading Anna Karenina twice already because I find it absolutely masterly. But Pierre Guyotat is a French author who's done some really intense books I've never been able to read because they're just impossibly written but are brilliant. But he's written a lot about his own traumas and comas and experiences growing up and memoirs. And they're a big inspiration to me, definitely. Pierre Guyotat. Okay. Yeah. Let's see. Oh, I've been reading lately The Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey, American author from the West, from the '70s. He sort of— his book Monkey Wrench Gang launched the ecoterrorism movements in the '70s in the States. So it's very timely now with Extinction Rebellion. And, and, but his lone wolf approach might not be what's needed right now. No, we don't— no. Well, isn't Area 51 gonna be completely— oh, I think it's just gonna dissipate into a mirage. It's done, it's over. Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, but I mean, it's a different approach, you know, that Marlboro Man, you know, let's save the planet type stuff by blowing up stuff. It just, it's done. Um, yep. Yeah, but I've been, I've been, uh, reading those two books actually because they do relate to the next couple of books I want to write eventually. Anna Karenina being supposedly a big love story, um, which upon reading it, I mean, if you stick to the Hollywood movies, yeah, of course it's going to be a love story with a screech of brakes at the end. Um, but But you get into the book and it's so much more about death and existential quagmires and a society in turmoil just before the big crash that ripped it apart. So fascinating and so well— yeah. And the first one, the Edward Abbey Monkey Wrench Gang, it's because when I got to Ramsgate, I also realized that Ramsgate is a border town. And I've always lived on border town. When I was in Arizona, the Mexico border. EU border was right there. When I was, you know, growing up in France, the Spanish border was still a reality before the EU. And of course, in our days, when you talk about borders, you're talking about people trying to cross it and people trying to prevent people from crossing it. So over the past couple of years since I moved to Ramsgate, I've also noticed that, um, there are now daily little boats carrying refugees that cross over. Really? Yeah, this is the reality of Kent, but it wasn't so much— it wasn't happening 2 years ago. But with Brexit happening and the borders closing and, and the French cracking down on the Calais jungle and making it impossible for people to stay in Europe and await judgment, then people get desperate and they come and they drown. Thing is, we're fully aware this is happening, but actually hearing it and people saying no, see it daily and you're like, we just kind of compartmentalize it and go, oh, well, that's just something if we want to read the papers. Yeah, it's staring at you when you stare out from Ramsgate toward France. You know, there's massive tankers going by and boats and all kinds of activity. It's a major thoroughfare. But there is also little tiny walnut shells floating around. What an incredible— So yeah, this is going to fit into the next written words. Okay, so you've mentioned there's going to be book number 2 and 3. Yeah, I didn't say it's not going to take 10 years, but yeah. So what's number 2 going to be? This is going to be about Rebecca Koch? No, it's a memoir. It's about desire. It's about being a woman, actually. So we'll have to have another talk in 5 years. It started— I think it's going to be even a as blunt as the first one, except it's going to talk about desire, womanhood, love, passion, and all that stuff that we're, you know, led to believe is the end-all. It's growing up into being a woman. The lies we're told, the lies we tell ourselves. So it's very similar in a sense. You know, it's not talking about eating disorder, but it's going to approach that aspect of myself as with the same, hopefully, fierceness and humor Because your parents, they kind of brought you up in a kind of quite straight-laced? Oh, they're, you know, just normal parents. I couldn't have hoped for more normal parents. They wanted the best for me. They still do. What is normal? I don't know. Wow. If you know what normal is, I want to know. Well, let's see. Hmm. They stayed together. They're still married. Wow. He had a job and she was at home. A housewife. And they had 3 kids. So, God, normal parents. Nobody has normal parents. We just have parents. And then you normalize them as you get older, saying, oh, you know, they weren't that bad. They actually were pretty good. I got lucky. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. How you grow out of it is interesting, what you make out of it. Can I ask you, who do you admire Is there anyone you particularly admire? Do you know what, it can be a family member, or is there somebody in the public eye at the moment that's doing something that you just think, yeah, good, good on you? Oh, the 77-year-old woman who just completed the first round-the-world sailing, solo sailing. Oh, well, you got to keep yourself busy in retirement, haven't you? That was my goal, but then I dropped that ball. Really? Why? You can still do it. Well, she hasn't used power. She was just sailing using the wind. It's beautiful. And she's not letting age define her or what men think. I got to Ramsgate. I got into harbor where basically I lived on the harbor. There was about 400 boats there and there was maybe 50 people living there. I soon realized that the women owning boats were Basically could be counted on one hand. Really? Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. It's a gentleman's sport, yachting in England. It's more of a lone wolf situation in France. You know, you get those crazy Britons going, oh yeah, I can fix up a boat. No problem. I don't need to belong to a yacht club. You've got to get another boat. Oh God. Yes. I'm playing the lottery, you know. Oh, well, then you're in with a chance. Yeah, I have a chance of having another boat someday. Or you could just— well, I mean, the book's been out. Are you getting lots of responses back from people? Yeah, people have been really touched by it. Brilliant. Yeah, I've not had— well, people have been kind enough not to say they didn't like it. A bit rude. No, it's touched people. It's touched old friends who had no idea what was going on, who didn't know what to expect when I wrote a book. They knew me as a musician, but they didn't know know me as a writer. So when it came out that I was a writer and that, you know, they could actually finish the book, that it wasn't going to drop off their hands, they were grateful because, you know, it helped them relate to their own experiences, not necessarily eating disorders, but anything having to do with how you deal with trauma and relationships. I was going to say, you don't need to have an eating disorder or a friend with an eating disorder to enjoy the book. And it is an interesting book. It's raw. It's very genuine. It's quite funny at times as well. But this just is a gate into somebody else's world. And the more we read about other people, the more memoirs we read, the more we understand people, the more compassion we have. And also, you've led an interesting life. And it's just nice to know about it. And you kind of, you're open and honest about struggles and people should be a bit more open and honest about their struggles so everybody doesn't feel like they need to be perfect or put up, you know, you look, you sing incredibly, you do all these incredible things, but yet you're just a real normal person and you've actually had to do all this while going through stuff. Normal, there you go. See, we don't need to define normal. We all have a sense what normal is. I get annoyed when I use the word normal. No, but it's true. I And normal, well-being is normal. Like, when you, you know, when you've hit it on the, on the head, you know when you're feeling normal. We could replace the word with well or fine or anything, but yeah, normal is like, I'm just being me. Well, you're living your normal. I'm living, I'm up to my norms for myself. Well, no, it's absolutely brilliant. I can't wait for the next couple to come out and then we'll come and have another chat as well. It'll be a few years. Yeah, yeah, well, come on, chop chop. How long did it take you to write this one? Uh, between the time I had the idea and the time that book actually existed as a physical object, 5 years. 5 years, okay. It was my first. I had to write a couple bad versions of it before I could come up with this. Have you got any— we've got 30 seconds left— have you got any publishing tips, any writing tips? Any tips? Pick a good designer for the COVID Yeah. I'm having lunch with them right now at 12:30. Oh, right. Yeah, cool. It's a good coffee table book. It looks like a coffee table book. It's one of those ones that you want to leave out. It does look absolutely fantastic. I'll make sure I put it up on the website onto the resources section of Women's Radio Station. Thank you. And I'll be— if everybody follows you on social media, myself on social media, there'll be lots of promo going out as well. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you to you. Have a fabulous lunch. And thank you for listening, and listen in every 5 AM and 5 PM to Get Booked. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's well-being. We aim to to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money, or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be want with their cash but just don't know where to start. At empowerandenrich.org, you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me at empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Anne Callaghan. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months, I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops interviewing customers, asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip for our listeners. The most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on Women's Radio Station. It's Mother's Hour. If like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together. With spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories, it will be a refreshing, honest, and funny look at being a mum. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness, or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turn2us.org.uk. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand with a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs. We can tailor your experience