Get Booked – My Life In 37 Therapies By Kay Hutchison

Hello, I'm Hazel and this is Get Booked for Women's Radio Station. I hope you're all well and ready to get booked. As part of our aim here at Women's Radio Station, we like to support women's emotional well-being, and today I have the fabulous Kay in to discuss about my life in 37 therapies. Hi! Hello, lovely to see you. It's great to see you too. And we, there's so many things I need to talk about. And there's so many different terminology I need to use for some of the therapies. I've obviously read the book. Yeah, great. And there's, it's 37 therapies. Was that enough for you? Actually, there are more. If I'd written the book now, I'd probably be double that really, 'cause I just, I think I ended up being quite interested in the whole aspect of therapies and what they can do to help you mind, body, and spirit. So I think once you start on a journey like that, you don't really stop. But I think 37 is quite a lot. It is. And if we just give a little bit of background, basically you had a bit of an epiphany. Yes. You were sitting there with your husband. Milk time. Yeah, you just kind of went, Um, sitting there having a coffee, going to— was it Monaco? So basically we were down in the south of France for, um, our annual, uh, trip to see the Grand Prix. And of course it's completely over the top, and it was the 10th time we were doing it. And for some reason in this year, I suddenly wasn't— just realized I wasn't enjoying any of it. And I felt as if my whole my system had shut down mentally, physically, and all I wanted to do was get away. And my poor husband was sitting there. I actually left him at the breakfast table and went off and said, "Look, I'm going to see if I can get an early flight home." And of course he was shocked. I was, I mean, I didn't really know what was happening. I couldn't quite work out why it was such a severe kind of shutdown mentally. But he was very good. He tried to come with me, and I said, look, I just want to be in my own. Caught a flight back and really started to run around, try and find somewhere else to stay. I went to— When you got back home? To my GP, yeah. And she said, whoa, what on earth is going on here? And she thought maybe it was hormones or something. You know, she obviously sent me off for tests, and in the meantime, I thought, right, I've got to do something to calm myself down. Went for a massage, that made me feel a bit better. Then I thought, oh God, there's acupuncture around the corner. I mean, I was quite desperate because I was feeling quite panicky, but very, very out of the ordinary situation for myself. Well, it's the unknown as well. You don't know what's happening to you. I mean, ultimately it was a form of PTSD. Your mother had had cancer, your husband had had cancer, you'd had to be strong for everybody, then all of a sudden you didn't need to be. Yeah. And your body just went, I need something else, I need to look out for me, I feel, yeah. I mean, it's still probably quite hard to understand now. No, it is, it is. I think I just didn't really— I mean, part of writing the book was actually to uncover all the things that could have caused this to happen, and I think it was an amazing way of getting to the bottom of what it was. Childhood issues, it was things to do with my work, the way I was pushing myself ever, ever harder, and also just totally ignoring myself, just treating myself as a sort of machine, a robot, making things happen, looking after everyone else, and actually you're all out there and forgetting that there's actually something in here that needs to be looked after as well. What's the saying? You can't pour from an empty cup. Ah, absolutely, spot on, yeah. And so you basically went through a process of Initially, 37 different therapies to try and unpack what's going on. What is, I mean, the thing is, you know that when something happens to you, you don't react because of that thing that happened to you. You react because of what happened the day before, the year before, 30 years before. All of it builds up to the person that we are, which contributes to how we react to life's events. Absolutely. And it's, I can completely relate to this. I've done many therapies myself and sometimes, It happens on a daily, maybe even weekly basis rather than daily, that I suddenly go, "Whoa, that's why I've been doing that." And it might be because I finally relaxed and my brain's been able to think, or it might be that I read an article where I just completely relate to what they've got to say. Or, you know, there's just so many different things that can happen, or an event happens and you recognize a similarity in how you behave. But that is what this book is about. I mean, this book helped me do this as well. And that is what you are trying to achieve, isn't it?— you know, tell people about the 37 therapies. What people can say, ah, that could work for me. Yes, I think, and I think you have to find the things that work for you. I think in going through that, some of these things I haven't continued to have in my life, but I appreciate them, and I know other people who do like them, and I'm continuing to find new ones all the time. So, um, it's kind of creating the mix of it that's right for you and given the person that you are, the money that you've got available, because not everyone has money, so you have to look for things that are actually easy to access, whether it's on YouTube or you might get a free offer in a place to give you a chance at different therapy. And I think it's just about the person you are. Some people are not interested in therapies at all, actually, I would say. Even though I think we all need some form of therapy. But that's the point, there's the different variety. I mean, yoga, some people swear by it. I mean, personally, I adore it. I've done yoga for free for about a year now. You just go onto YouTube. You can get it slightly cheaper on Groupon, or sometimes you just need to appreciate, I mean, the NHS offers certain, and Mind offers certain extremely reduced in cost therapies and things like that. But also people will be saying, I can't afford this therapy, um, life's too expensive as it is. Well, actually, maybe you need to prioritize this over going out for that dinner. And sometimes it's about putting yourself first and not trying to, you know, make sure you go to this event because somebody else says that you need to. And, you know, putting yourself first. Some of the therapies in there, obviously I've looked at the price because I've I was going, I just need to do some of these therapies. And one of my favourites in there, the best way, let's call it the Fudgitt Retreat. Yes. Okay? Yeah. Listeners can use their imagination as to what it's really called. And I think that's about £1,800 for the week. Well, I don't think, maybe it wasn't as expensive as that when I went, but I think that's partly because there has been huge expansion explosion in, you know, people wanting to do retreats and things which will shake them up. And that's what I certainly felt that therapy did. So, but basically this is about, about, it's kind of the, the guy that's done it, um, has developed a whole approach to life which is about saying, right, okay, if, if something isn't working for you and doesn't make you feel good, stop doing it and try something that does. The world will probably not fall apart and you will probably find your true path in life, but I think the phrase, the fudge it phrase, it's basically about saying life is too short, fudge it to that because it doesn't feel good for me. I love it, you've adopted this phrase. I'll need to. And actually lots of people don't want to. Don't want to talk about it on air or, you know, in interviews because of what it's called. But actually, I think that really sets it apart from many of the other therapies. And there's a huge following now who really adopt that in their lives and feel happier. Yeah, but you know what? The people who are so scared to actually move away from what's not working because it's fear of the unknown, do you know what? Make a contingency plan. If it doesn't work, figure out how you can go back to doing what you hated in the first place. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And it's about reframing how you're gonna actually manage your life. Yeah, it's a new approach, a new approach, a new mentality towards it, and I think that's very important. I must say, one of the therapies that I really thought was not for me, and a friend recently suggested that we did a silent retreat, and I said, you are Gotta be kidding me. Yeah, I can't— I think I talk in my sleep, uh, which probably means it should be good for me. But you went on a silent retreat, but instead of doing it for 2 or 3 days in the— some sort of nice little country home, you did it somewhere where basically you were allowed like an apple for lunch, half an orange for dinner. Yeah, and it just sounded like hell, actually. I mean, I'm, I'm so like you because lots chatting, and I mean, I was sort of very busy and sort of frenetic. But actually, I was amazed at how this whole retreat turned out. There were basically 10 days over Christmas one year, all women, 50 women all together, cooped up in this children's activity centre. I thought it was going to be exotic, but it wasn't. It was really down to earth. And we did— You say down to earth, I say grotty. Yeah, we were sleeping in bunk beds. We were 8 to a dorm basically with 1 bathroom shared between all of us. And we had to do almost 11 hours of meditation every single day, or trying to meditate, learning to meditate. And we had brilliant vegetarian food, not too much. It's amazing, you don't really need a huge amount of food if you're sitting and actually emptying your mind of all the rubbish that you usually have. And at the end of that, I felt healthy inside and out because I'd cleared out all the rubbish in my mind. I felt actually really quite good just being on my own, living on my own. I was calmer. And when I started speaking again, it was all croaky because I hadn't spoken for 10 days, and I felt better. You've proven me wrong then, basically. And I see actually the simplicity of the location was probably to help you focus rather than going, oh, look at that lovely palm tree. Absolutely. They've got a cocktail. Well, maybe we should have one of those. So I, I, I understand the concept and why possibly it was, um, and that way you could pay whatever the experience was worth to you. That was brilliant at the end. Interesting. She said, if you can afford to pay, you know, you should pay. If you can't, we like people to be able to come and experience Well, we're just going to go off to our first break, and then, uh, I want to find out your, your worst and your best therapies. Back in a second. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism, women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. 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Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth, and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring, and empowering? At Nurturing Birth, we offer approved doula training courses across the UK which are facilitated by an award-winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role, and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more at nurturingbirth.co.uk. You're listening to women's radio station supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women's Radio Station, that's Women's Radio STN, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back to our second section of today's show, Get booked with Kay Hutchison, My Life in 37 Therapies. Uh, we've been chatting about some of the 37 therapies, and in the first section we were talking about why you got to the stage of actually needing to embark on a variety of therapies. And I'm keen— we've chatted about a few of them. I'm keen to know, what was your favorite? Uh, favorite? Well, actually, it's really quite mundane, but yoga is my favorite. It's still my foundation. It's what I do every week. But I mean, it's not exactly very exciting. I mean, I did do shamanic retreats and Ayurvedic retreats and silent retreats and all the rest of it. But I do think that is so important because it's not only good for you physically, the movement and stretching all the muscles and looking after every part of your body, but it's also the fact that mentally you have to concentrate on what you're doing and really focus. So that's good for mental agility. And lastly, you know, spiritually, I find the music that some of the teachers and instructors use is really, really helpful, and it allows you to take yourself out of the world for a period of time and actually just focus on yourself and relaxing and calming the mind. I think one of the main reasons why yoga is a favourite therapy is because it's accessible. Absolutely, yes. And it's also— I don't know about you, but I've really, really noticed over the last few years that it used to be all women and now it's quite a mix. And, you know, all kinds of different people are attracted to this because they see the benefits almost immediately. And it can be quite addictive. I mean, if I miss my yoga session, I can feel it in my joints, I can feel it in my mood, I can feel I see it in like my sleeping patterns. And even if I just do a 15 to 20 minute session, it's that kind of, hey, I need to just top my levels back up again. And they use it in schools. No, it's fantastic how accepted it's been. I mean, sometimes I literally just sit, lie with my legs up a wall if I can't get to yoga. And actually that, really relaxes. It brings the blood back into your system, into your head. Doing an inversion like that is really helpful because you're rushing around, it just calms you down. It helps you to kind of have the space to think as well. And I read an article, I think it was about a month ago, so don't ask me where it was, but children that were naughty in school and were given detention weren't asked to do lines, they were asked to lay in a hall and meditate for the hour and just be silent, which you think— That's fantastic. It's the most simple idea, which is probably the most effective. Yeah. A chance for them to actually just sit and do nothing and maybe just think about what's going on. They need a bit, obviously they need a bit of guidance as to what they're doing, but I think that's far, far better than actually feeling negative emotions from being excluded from a class or something like that. It's a really brilliant idea. It just depends on whether they all start like sticking Post-it notes to their teachers saying, "You're an idiot," just so that they can go and get— be part of the meditation session. That is not something that I'm suggesting you do. No, no, no, it's quite interesting. This is when I get in trouble. Yeah. Also, they wouldn't use the word idiot either. And what was— what would you say was Okay, I did say before the break worst, but the least preferred therapy that you tried? The least preferred I think was, it was quite out there for me, esoteric breast massage. And that was actually a friend of mine who worked at Sky who absolutely swore by it and said, "Kay, it's absolutely fantastic. You're working in a really male-dominated world and you're having to be strong out there." in your business, it really connects you, reconnects you with your feminine, the feminine side of you. And so I trot off because, as you know, I was just interested in experiencing things and I thought, oh, I'll give it a go, who knows. And it was the weirdest experience. I mean, to have someone, even a woman, actually starting off with an ordinary massage sort of on the shoulders and the chest and then down the sides and then eventually massaging my breasts, and I just thought, I just don't want this. I wouldn't, no. But some people get a fantastic amount out of it and really feel that it's the most calming and the most relaxing and nurturing experience that they've had. And certainly the person that I knew at Skye was going all the time. I think I did it for a course of 3 and then I just dropped it. But I also do think it's partly because I really wasn't very in touch then with my feminine side. I've always been quite kind of strait-laced, and my Scottish upbringing, it makes you very, you know, kind of slightly repressed, I think. So I was never really open about that anyway. So I think for me it was really quite an extreme experience, and I appreciate that some people are just not bothered the way that I might have been. I mean, I'm with you. I don't think I would like that. I know I wouldn't, I know I wouldn't even try it, but there's a lot of things I will try, but sometimes you just know in your heart of hearts what's gonna work for you. But one of the takeaways from this book is that there are so many different kind of therapies, and you don't just try a therapy and it doesn't work, and you say, "Well, I'm just, you might as well write me off, I'm done, there's nothing that's gonna help me." No, there's at least 150 other therapies that you can try, or maybe you do 3 or 4 at the same time, Yes, you know, it's— and as we've said, you know, some have a financial element to them, some don't, but there are definitely ways around everything. Um, and I think that is the point. And, and I liked the way that I could look through this book and say— because a few of my friends had said, you know, do the silent retreat, and I'm starting to get a little bit paranoid. Um, but after reading the book. I was like, it's just not something that I fancy. Yeah, don't— I think you just have to go with your feelings, your gut instinct. But there was ones where you've talked about them and I thought, that just sounds horrific, and by the time you'd experienced it and explained what happened, I went, oh, I could so do that, and that's the difference. So you've basically been the guinea pig and you've come back and told us. Yes, that's right. Yeah, I've done it all so that you don't have to, but you can read a bit about it. The other thing I want to say is that Even within some of these therapies, you do need to shop around. For example, massage. I mean, everyone thinks massage is massage, but absolutely every single therapist is completely different, and you have to find the one and the person and the type of massage that actually works for you. And they're all individual. So even although I went on that silent retreat and I could now go— because I did the 10 days, I could now go on a 3-day one. Actually, a lot of people would just like to try it for 3 days, but you're not really supposed to. You're supposed to go for a full 10 days so that you can really get into the meditation, which really takes you out of yourself. But again, I think there would be different places that do it differently. So even with massage, don't write it off if you don't have a good one. Try a different style, a different cultural massage. They're all different. Well, I agree, because I've had somewhere they've been so light, I'm like, this is just a waste of time. Totally agree with you. But, you know, I very much so like the pressure and the kind of the hands-on and just kind of going for it and bashing you about a little bit. That's my kind of preferred style, which is, is not an invitation for someone to bash me about. I feel like I'm really going through something weird over the last 10 minutes. Um, but in terms of hypnotherapy, I tried hypnotherapy. And I spoke to two different therapists, very, very different in age and area and price and upbringing. And they offer consultation for free because they understand that they want it to work and you have to see whether you have a connection. And the one I thought I was going to have the connection with came away and I thought, that's never going to work for me. And the person who I thought was completely nothing alike me just sitting in the chair, I thought he could have probably put me in a trance within seconds. And I don't think I'm the kind of person because my brain goes, yes, yeah, too busy. Um, it's— I didn't, I didn't think it was ever going to work for me. And I just suddenly went, wow, you're gonna be the guy for me. And so I kind of said to the other one, thanks, really appreciate it, there's just something that's not quite going to work for me. Um, but isn't that brilliant? You were able to try it without peeing and actually see, and they recognize that. I think that's absolutely brilliant, and that's a good way to find what is right for you and who's right for you. And but what you pointed out earlier is that you weren't looking after yourself and you weren't putting yourself first. Do you know what? Spending money on your own well-being is an investment in yourself. And when I started, I started telling some friends, listen, I'm just trying hypnotherapy, if I should try this other therapy, because I just feel that I need it and I need this there's a lot going on and I need to look after myself so I can be the best parent for my kids. Indeed. And whatnot. And they turned around and went, we've just realized that we've been prioritizing, we've been spending our money in the wrong areas, you know, going out for a dinner to cheer us up and things like that. And then they eventually signed up for some therapy and they went, just the thought that I've put myself first And it's quite liberating. It's so liberating, and we keep on just— you've got to put ourselves first as well, you know. This doesn't mean that we can just completely ignore everybody else, um, it's just, you know, you can be a better friend to somebody else, you can be a better sister or a brother or whatever you are, and a better parent, a better dog owner, a better neighbor if you are better within yourself. And we are a nation of people that are spending too much money, we're in debt, we're doing this, we're doing that, consumerism's just gone potty, this possibly could turn into an 8-hour show. But it's just— Could I just say you've said something really important there. I think when I think about what you're saying, that is what happened to me in the South of France. There was all this, you know, just eating a lot, eating too much, not getting fit, beating myself up because there was people in the gym and I wasn't in the gym. I was just eating, spending money, treating myself. It felt totally empty. And I think after I'd been through— certainly after being through the cancer experience, it makes you realize what's important in life. But actually, I hadn't actually looked after myself. And I think what ended up happening was I then got some balance back. I started doing a bit. So would it be right to say that you were possibly just putting a plaster on a bigger issue and just hoping it would kind of COVID it up a little bit. Now in this next section, we want to talk about how the therapies helped you look back to way before what you thought was initially the issue and unpack kind of your whole life. So we'll be back in a couple of minutes. 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I'm Hazel Butterfield, and I have Kay Hutchison in the studio chatting about her book 37 therapies. We have been talking about the different therapies and what happened that made Kay think, "I need to try something to kind of fix something in my brain," but as you were doing these therapies, more was uncovered, wasn't it? Yes, yes. I think one of the interesting things is I actually ended up going over this period of time, which was about 5, 6 years, to 5 different different psychotherapists. So, I mean, it's kind of an interesting story because it was basically I moved and I had to change therapist or counsellor. And when I started that process, the different psychotherapists were really interested in, you know, obviously uncovering what were the deep-seated reasons behind my life change. And we looked back at my childhood, and there were lots of things which featured in my childhood which I think, if you could map it out, if you knew about my childhood and how I'd responded to my childhood experiences, you could almost plot how my life was going to go. So first of all, I was quite a strong, outspoken little girl, but it wasn't really wanted, and I very quickly discovered that particularly the men in the family really didn't want to have a little girl giving her opinion about, you know, how they were making the custard, or an opinion on, you know, what was happening in the house, and, you know, "Poor mum's got all this to do and you're never here," all that sort of stuff. So I was kind of silenced early on. But on the other hand, you were silenced, were you? I was definitely— I knew maybe I wasn't silenced, but maybe I was very aware. But it was put upon you that supposedly it was unwelcome, whereas you've just— you have to just keep quiet in the corner and kind of look pretty. And I was always— there were always comments about me physically which made me really cringe. In what way? Oh, all kinds of things like, you know, get back in the kitchen where you belong, things like, um, oh, we've got lovely shapely shape, lovely shapely legs from the men. And I was supposed to just accept this and kind of did because that was the culture in the '60s. But on the other hand, I had my mother, by the way. Okay, yeah, no, no, exactly. I'm, I, I guess this is the thing, so much has changed and yet so much has not changed. It's kind of incredible that we're still back in that mindset. On the other hand, I had my mother who was an absolutely gorgeous woman and really, really had everything— intelligence, she worked incredibly hard because my father was away working on a ship actually for sometimes months at a time. She had these two kids to look after and his mother. And she, I think she must have said some things to me, but either that or through osmosis I was picking up all these messages about, you know, don't, you know, look after your schoolwork, work hard, get on, be independent because you don't have children, because actually look at what I've got, you know, I had lots and lots of opportunity And actually I ended up being a mum back in the— and the thing is, that is not wrong. That can be right for so many people. But I think for my mother, it wasn't what she had dreamed of. It wasn't what she had wanted. And she ended up thinking, here I am, you know, I really, really am a kind of slave to the house and to my children and my family. And I don't have any time for myself. I think the thing is, it's not wrong. It's just, it wasn't what she wanted. It wasn't what she dreamed of. Can you see that my fist is clenched? It's automatic. I'm getting— What is weird, this is really weird. I completely understand where you're coming from. I mean, the amount of times people have accused me of being a little bit too forthright. I'm like, no, not at all. I'm just standing up for what's right. And women have been told they should kind of be a little bit more, you know, reserved. But interestingly, I was brought up in a similar arrangement where, you know, my mum wasn't with my dad, but she worked her bottom off and she was, you know, but she taught me that I could have pretty much everything. But my grandma, who's 94, alive, 94. Excellent. She had 4 children and she was, back in the, you know, '40s, was a magistrate and managed a mental health facility. Impressive. And worked all the way through 4 children, which is bizarre, but obviously that was kind of normal to me. Yes. So the problems I've had that I've never seen it as a stumbling block and I've just got on with it. And people see that as a little bit weird and don't quite understand it. And when people don't like what they understand, you get treated as some sort of pariah. It's bizarre. So I get the theory. But yet you then, you were made to think that you couldn't have children, you should do things differently and you had to— And actually, if you look at what I then did, I just completely threw myself into working hard, getting on in school, going to university, working hard, working my way up in a job. And actually, it was a very, very full— I mean, a couple of my friends used to say to me, "Oh, you're so driven." And of course, but it was kind of said as a bad thing. And here was me thinking I was doing the right thing. You know, I was actually going for my career. And I didn't have children. And then it was only after I'd had this epiphany with this book, which describes the whole thing, that I realised that actually I had made my mind up very young to be a certain way, and I'd been aiming at that, you know, all my life. And then everything falls apart. You think, oh, what did I— what made me do that? You know, I did have more choices. But I had made up in my tiny little mind when I was young— Don't call it a tiny little mind, it was— Well, it was smaller. It was a sponge. Yes, yes, and that makes it so important, these decisions that you make when you're young. And if I didn't get questions right that my father asked me, I can remember this, we used to have quizzes on a Sunday morning, if I didn't get the questions right, I would be chastised terribly. So, Add that into you've got to get on, you know, it's, it's kind of interesting. So those are the things that I covered a lot in psychotherapy, and my attitude to men and all the rest of it too. Really interesting. See, that is— see, that's quite a few similarities in what I've unpacked in my therapy as well, because my mum didn't have a huge amount of money when she was raising us, and so I started working when I was 12. I'd saved money, you know, I could always I'd put myself in quite a good situation from an early age because I still wanted to have everything, but I wanted to set myself up financially. I mean, you know, at the age of 18, I bought my first house. I just— because I wanted to set myself up and not kind of limit myself in any way. And I wasn't scared of hard work. And I also thought, you know, I've got more energy now, I might as well do it now in case something else comes about. But, you know, then you even get, if you've worked hard, then people assume that, you know, whatever you have now, people assume it's, when you're a woman, it's because a bloke's given it to you somewhere down the line. That's infuriating, isn't it? But it's interesting just how you can unpack, you know, the way you've done things. And do you think you've put, have you got more to unpack? I think it's a lifelong unpacking ceremony in a way. I think it's interesting. I really like looking at the complexity of life and the human condition and how you evolve and why you make the decisions that you do. So I think I'm still finding things out. What I find most interesting about the book is that I get lots and lots of different feedback from different different people have read it, people see things in it that I thought was a tiny little thing and for them it was the most important thing of the book and people will say, "Page 150!" or someone else will say, "Oh, page 107!" or whatever. Because we're all individuals so no therapy is going to affect us the same. So actually I'm learning more about people, other people, through the feedback that they're giving me about the book, and that is a lovely thing because I'm still learning, and I think we always are. Yeah. So it's not the end of the story, there's more. But in a funny sort of a way, having been through this, I'm enjoying life more, and I'm a bit more balanced. Don't get me wrong, I have really bad days just like everyone else. Yeah. But I have some little things that I can go to to help me relax But that's the thing, helping to understand yourself. You might not necessarily solve whatever our well-being issues are, but if we understand ourselves more or know where we can go to or what we need to do to kind of make ourselves feel better— I mean, that's essentially what the book's about, isn't it? It is. And being able to kind of find ways of figuring out why we've done what we've done. I mean, the issues you've talked about with your childhood and certain issues of of feminism, of when we've just had to, we don't always understand why we've done what we've done, and then you suddenly go, wait a minute, that wasn't okay. Yes, I know. You have to remind yourself, 'cause actually, because we grew up with that, we're perpetuating those things, and it's a constant struggle for us to remember, no, no, actually, yeah, you have to remind yourself that is not okay. And a question I want to ask you before we go into our last break is who out there at the moment in the public eye do you think is championing being somebody to look up to with wellbeing or just in the media? Everyone. I mean, actually, you know, looking at my social media feed. Well done everybody, you're doing amazing. I mean, I think Some people express it better than others, but I do think everyone is kind of repeating the mantra about how important this is. I'm not sure there are many, many people who've really got to the bottom of what that means, but I think that I see it as a bit of a noise around me, and Actually, I think my honest belief is that you have to find your own expression of all of these ideas, because I think that makes it totally authentic and real. You're not taking someone else's view, you're actually just sort of saying, no, I'm finding my own definition. And find what works for you. Yeah. Brilliant. Right, we're going to be back for our final section just after these next Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health. Everything fertility, pregnancy, birth, and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. Hello, my name is Ingrid Marsh on Women's Radio Station, and coming soon is the Radical Wellbeing Show. To help support women's wellbeing, each show I share the airwaves with ordinary women like me and you doing extraordinary things. Women who've overcome huge obstacles in their lives who are now here with me to empower you. On the Radical Wellbeing Show, you'll be inspired to kick away the roadblocks and live your life to the fullest. If you're ready to get radical about your wellbeing, then this is the show for you. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth, and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, Caring and empowering. At Nurturing Birth, we offer approved doula training courses across the UK, which are facilitated by an award-winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role, and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more at nurturingbirth.co.uk. You're listening to women's radio station supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women's Radio Station— that's Women's Radio STN— or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome to the final section of today's Get Booked. I'm Hazel, and we have Kay Hutchison in the studio chatting about my life in 37 therapies. And we, in the final section, we're talking about, you know, how therapy can help you with day-to-day issues or something that's happening in your world over a particular couple of years, but also how it can unpack how we've formed into who we are dating back to when we're children and what has been imposed on us by society and a patriarchal society and feminists along the way kind of going, "You should be doing it this way. No, you should be doing it this way and get back in the kitchen." Interestingly, I like it when someone tells me to get back into the kitchen because I love cooking. And newsflash, guess where the wine is? Indeed, indeed. I always like to look at the positive side of everything. But I would like to ask you, What are your favourite books and authors out there at the moment? Well, funnily enough, we've been talking about this, but Motherhood. Have you read that book yet? No. Okay. I'm just trying to think. To be honest with you, at the moment, I think with everything going on that is messy, I have, you know, in the world, you know, the politics and, you know, the climate and all the rest of it, and it's pretty overwhelming what's in the news. You know, there's the thing about the immigrant— immigration problems with, you know, illegal immigrants coming in, and that terrible news story about them getting trapped in the lorry. I honestly am not reading anything about ideas particularly at the moment, which has always been the thing that I've been interested in— philosophies and different approaches to life. At the moment, I'm escaping into Jane Austen and really nice stories from the past because I need to escape from the mess that's out there. And so I'm finding it's a lot of the classics that I'm enjoying at the moment. I think it's just also something about, you know, we're just coming up to Christmas, it feels autumnal and sort of wintry, and there's nothing nicer than curling up with a very traditional story. Blanket. You know, blanket, heating oil. Glass of wine. Yeah. Borrow someone's dog. Yes. So I think that I'm not going to say there's lots of new books because actually sometimes I find there's just too much out there, certainly in my area of health and wellbeing. I actually like to to switch off and look at something really very simple. This is something that I say quite a lot in my Get Booked shows. Obviously, I'm a huge book fan, do read a lot. I have to read a lot as well so that, you know, when I have authors like yourself come on the show, I read the books. I want to be able to have a proper discussion about it. And there's something quite delightful about reading a book and then actually making notes and going, I'd love to be able to ask the author about this part, and I get to do that. It's fantastic. But to me, reading is, it's an escape. It's experiencing somebody else's world. You don't have to agree with what someone's saying, but it helps you understand why they think that way. 'Cause we don't want everyone to be the same, but it's better if we understand why we're different and just be a more understanding society. And it's also, we're constantly on technology and I love TV, so I have to level it out somewhere, you know? I like my soaps, I like Netflix, but I don't feel as bad about watching a stupid amount when it's raining and I can't concentrate because I also know that the next day or the day before, I read half my book. And so many people get wound up by, you know, being stuck on the train, the Tube or whatever, and when there's delays. And if you're reading a book, you're doing something with your time. It's not wasted time. And mentally, that's brilliant for me. I mean, people said, "Oh, you were in a 2-hour delay at the airport the other day." I'm like, "Yeah, I read my book. It was brilliant." If you do want an ideas book, that book called Motherhood, it's by Sheila Haty, and it's really interesting because she is really struggling with whether to have children or not. And she uses the I Ching, another sort of therapy, to actually help her make decisions as she goes along her journey of making a decision as to whether to have children or not. So obviously it appealed to me because it was bringing therapies and some of the ideas that I was really interested in together. So that's probably one worth a little look. It's quite an unusual, unique approach. See, I quite like the unique ones. I've just finished a book called Hilariously Infertile by Karen Jeffries, who goes through a horrific journey trying to, well, trying so many different fertility treatments. She has got a potty mouth, which is just my idea of heaven. I loved it, but she She kind of— it was about solidarity and helping people see the funny side of something, but helping them understand it a little bit more and about what they're going through. And, you know, people don't want to just read journals with facts and figures. They want to find something out without being bored senseless, and she's done it in a deliciously unique way where if you were wanting— if your friend was going through fertility treatment, you wanted to kind of understand a bit more, this is the book that you'd want to read because you'd understand it a bit more and you'd be able to say the right thing. And it's— this is, this is what the power of books, I think, can do. I, I also like the fact that humor— because actually, you know, a lot of the thing, the heavy things in, in books, and including mine, they, they really need to be balanced up by the hilarity of life. Yeah, I ended up going on silly dates and getting myself in a total mess with dating when this happened. And, uh, you know, and also there's some very funny incidents in my childhood which I, I talk about in the book. And some people, you know, it, it is funny, and you have to have that light and shade because that's what we, what life is, is like, really. You have to have it. It is, but also just Just realizing that people can kind of laugh at themselves as well makes you more encouraged to do that yourself. I think it's a great power. A couple of very spiritual magazines basically had a call with me before they decided to do anything because I think they were worried that I was going to take the mickey out of therapies, and I would never do that, although what I did say to them was— Scottie Pittman would never be sarcastic. But I was thinking, but actually it is funny what we do in some of these therapies. It's hilarious. And actually some of the most serious yoga teachers or spiritual people, I mean, they have a laugh like the rest of us. So even, you know, sort of heavy spiritual magazine sites sort of psychological magazines, it has a lighter side. And I was very keen to say to them, it's not all serious and heavy and deep, really. Otherwise you'll scare people away as well. But I do want to know, My Life in 37 Therapies, and at the bottom it says, from yoga to hypnosis and why voodoo is never the answer. Please, why isn't voodoo the answer? I mean, That's one of my main therapies that I use. Yes, well, I know it works for some people, and it is one of the slightly more out there compared to a lot of the therapies that I did. But to be honest with you, it's one of these ones where I think I need to be careful that I'm not taking the mickey because it is a serious ancient therapy that many people have followed, or kind of rituals that are involved. But my experience of it was funny, and it definitely wasn't the answer for me at that time in my journey. It was really coming to the end of things. I was in Philadelphia in the States— don't laugh— but for another therapy, and I was at the end of the session, and I was waiting for my flight home, wandering about in Philadelphia. Lovely place, but I ended up in this sort of seedy district with quite grimy buildings. Oh, that old chestnut, you just happened to walk onto that street. I was sitting, I was wandering along with a great big ice cream and I saw this thing, you know, black magic spells, voodoo, you know, scrawled sort of graffiti-like in this window in red, a bit Halloween-ish actually. And, um, I saw, I saw 'cause I'm so interested in things, I wanted to experience new therapies and new things that might give me insight into my situation and my predicament and my life. So I went in, but I mean, to cut a long story short, yes, all the things were there, the voodoo dolls, the candles, the dark, the skulls, it was quite creepy, old books, very kind of odd sort of smells. And essentially I was given this reading, as it were, and there were— I was to burn these candles for the next 2 months. I was to chant this chant that she gave me, all the words to written down, for the next 2 months, and I would get this person that she believed I wanted back in my life to come back in my life if I went and bought a morning suit and a wedding dress from this really expensive department store. And I mean, I just thought, there's no way I'm going to do this. And I suddenly realised, oh, I'm actually better. I really was in a place where these things were kind of so intriguing and I was so lost that I would have wanted to try things, but I realised that I was getting better. But— It's the strength in understanding what you know works for you as well, though. Yeah, but I mean, it was pretty over the top, that. So I got out of there quite quickly and thought, actually, be pleased at where you are. You've moved on. Was the ice cream good though? Oh, the ice cream was great. Yeah. Nothing like eating. Nothing like eating. We've just got our final minute. This is just flying by. I've loved chatting to you. I just wanna make sure that everybody knows where they can get hold of your book. They can get it on Amazon, your website. You have a website, don't you? Yeah. Yes. Red Door Publishing website. Site. You can get it, um, well, actually I was in Foyles yesterday. You can get it in Foyles and Waterstones, and also of course on the mighty Amazon. The mighty Amazon that sees all. Um, I actually do have a link as well on my website because I've reviewed the book and I put it on hazelbutterfield.com, and I've put the link to Amazon on there as well. Fantastic. So everybody can get hold of it. Thank you so much for coming in today. Um, I haven't even managed to turn over my sheet of questions, so can you come back in again at some point? I'd love to. It's been lovely talking to you. Enjoy the rest of your day. You too. Thank you. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most most importantly, women's well-being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money, or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start. At empowerandenrich.org, you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me at empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth, and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities and of compassion, listening, caring, and empowering. At Nurturing Birth, we offer approved doula training courses across the UK, which are facilitated by an award-winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role, and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more at nurturingbirth.co.uk. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on Women's Radio Station. It's Mother's Hour. If like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together. With spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories, it will be a refreshing, honest, and funny look at being a mum. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. 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