Get Booked – Nicki Bannerman, The Influential Women Podcast

You are listening to Get Booked with me, Hazel Butterfield, for Women's and Men's Radio Station. I love doing this show, talking to authors, talking to lovers of books, chatting about anything and everything books related and all the joy, enlightenment, and escape that good books can provide. Sit back and let us entertain you with a different guest each week, sharing who they are, what they do, and what inspires them. Now this week, I'm very excited to welcome this week's guest to Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station, Nikki Bannerman, podcast radio presenter, producer, content creator, narrator, and storyteller. We're going to be in for a treat. And creator of the Influential Women podcast, which is what we will be predominantly discussing today. Now, this is achingly human conversations on the work, lives, passions, mantras, and success of incredible women. What more could we possibly want? Nikki, hi, how are you? Oh my goodness, what an introduction! Very cool and appreciative. Thank you so much. I'm so excited. We've been meaning to do this interview for a while. We've finally got it together. We've managed to make it happened, and I'm just worried that we're not going to be able to squeeze in enough into the show. Oh my goodness, I know, I feel like I've known you for years. Well, I'm already thinking about the next show. So tell us a little bit more about yourself and why you started the Influential Women podcast. Yes, thank you. So thank you for that, Hazel. No, great honor to be on, on the show and, and to have been involved with the show in the past at the Women's Station. And the men's station through Howard. But the Influential Women podcast started a few years ago. I founded it on International Women's Day, actually, and I talk to broadcasters and celebrities, authors and campaigners who are passionate about their cause and not only about their work and their life and their mantras, but the adversity or setback they've had in their life. And some are pretty hard-hitting stories and some aren't. And how they've come back from that. Because through that learning, the adversity and how they've overcome it and thrived and survived, it gives other women and men a way to change their mindset, their day, or even their life. I mean, these women have changed my life over the times I've talked to them. Some of the things, the insights, the wisdom, the experiences, and the sort of humility and humanity that they've shown It's been really enlightening, as you said, about the authors, and I've met a lot of authors, and all of them come from writing in incredibly different ways, and I find them all fascinating, you know, as you probably do with meeting authors all the time. I've met a lot of them. I mean, do you want me to talk through some of the ones I've chatted to? Yeah, do you know what? I've actually been listening to quite a few of them. One that I was listening to yesterday— No, no, I mean, I introduced you to a few, I think, to put on booked. Christine Clayfield, who'd suffered terrible abuse in her childhood, you know, from multiple directions, but turned it round into a positive story as a multi-millionaire. I've interviewed her. Amanda Prowse, who actually is my next book that I need to read. Oh, I was going to ask you about your TBRs. Now that one, I haven't actually read that interview yet, and I don't know whether to— I haven't listened to it on the podcast yet, and I don't know whether to read the book before I listen to the interview. What would recommend? Oh, I know, well, probably actually, because I haven't read Amanda's, you know, book yet, the one I've literally got it here waiting to begin, I would probably listen to the podcast first because it tells you about her life story, how she's endured terrible depression in the house with her son, which is ongoing. He ended up, he co-wrote a book with her to help others through depression. The fact she started writing really late in her, you know, in her life, in her 40s, And she writes fast. She literally writes almost, you know, 24 hours a day sometimes when she's got a book idea until she's finished it. So literally virtually on no sleep. And they're all— it's just incredible. Whereas some of the people I've interviewed take ages to write a book. You know, we've all got a book in us. I'm trying to write a book, you're probably trying to write. I am indeed. And some people say write the ending first, some people say plot it out on sticky notes on a coffee table or on the wall. Some people say, you know, plot it or follow these. I don't know if there is a best way. I think it's just got to be whatever works for you. But, but Amanda's book that I'm about to start, um, it's the flashback of looking at the life you thought you'd have at 16 and the life with her at 53. Time to start living. And I think that's a really good and a lot of things, a lot of authors, you know, obviously they say write about what you know, but actually when you get the underneath the story and the emotion, you know, so Bukky Papillon, it was her first book, An Ordinary Wonder, about Nigeria and the courage to be herself, that was really— I do follow her, I think she's absolutely incredible. Exactly, she is, and just, you know, how the heartfelt messages that come through. Nikki Gerrard, I actually went to their house, The husband and wife crime duo, obviously, Nicci French and her husband, they write with their names together as Nicci Gerrard, and they always write crime. And I went to their house, which is also in Suffolk, and I go down this very long lane and it's very leafy and there's water, and into their kitchen there's big chest freezers and they write about crime. And I was feeling slightly eerie and on edge about this couple who just write crime all the time and thinking, It was kind of a surreal but magical experience, you know, that was in the middle of them launching Lion Room, and then went into this beautiful sort of book-laden library room to chat to her. So it's just, that was kind of an unusual experience. And Claire Mackintosh, who obviously used to be a policewoman, and she uses her true stories of, you know, the heartache of losing a child, and, you know, into crime and loss, So I just love the perspectives of where people come from with their writing. You know, Deborah McGack, I met and interviewed at a book fair, and because she was caring for either her parents or an in-law, that became the inspiration for her to write Exotic Marigold Hotel, and then she became the screenwriter for that. And you just think, isn't it interesting where these threads of life come through? Well, the one I read— the one that I keep on saying read, I'm so— I've got it in my brain now, but Phoebe Morgan, that's one that I listened to yesterday. Yes. Well, that— knowing each other's backgrounds, it's just, it's incredible, isn't it? It puts a different perspective and a different spin on the writing sometimes. Oh, definitely. And she's so young, and she was so humble. And actually, I think her hard-hitting issue was that she had anxiety, and I just thought people just would never imagine that someone who's so young and has got— I think it was her was it third or fifth novel that she was launching, and she's the publishing director at HarperCollins by day. Yeah. And reads all the scripts, you know, 200 a day come in on crime, and yet she's her own writer by night. And you think, and yet she, she was very humble, as women tend to be, of that imposter syndrome of, you know, not enough sort of syndrome that we all need to change, don't we, in lockdown, because we as listeners or readers look at these people in awe and put them on a pedestal that, you know, they're amazing, and yet they don't feel amazing, which is kind of interesting too, isn't it? Well, I think that's quite a female thing as well, where we need more people to kind of recognize them, you know, just to kind of— well, it is imposter syndrome, isn't it? We do kind of— we can have done incredible things and we still need people to say, hey, you're smashing it, you're doing incredible Incredible. Exactly. Well, we need to pat ourselves on the back and say we are enough, because I think everyone— well, certainly everyone I talk to at the moment is feeling glum and grim and burnt out and overwhelmed. And really it is a sort of back to day-to-day, you know, day-by-day, of where can we find some sort of glimmer of hope and gratitude and whatever and fun in the day, isn't it? And I think this for our work We're very lucky in that we can do this from home. We can talk to people whether we know them or don't know them. We can have a chat and we actually feel better, don't we, after the chat? And hopefully our listeners or readers will feel better too. Whenever the tech works, yes. Good old tech. I know, but don't you wish you had shares in some of these tech companies? They're coining it in. But, uh, no, we've both interviewed some incredible people, you know. I've been so privileged to meet these people, you know. Jennifer Nadel, she wrote the We Manifesto with Gillian Anderson, the very famous actress. Um, Kate Moss, who's obviously been so involved with Women's Fiction Awards and writes her own historic and gothic fiction. Um, Rowan Coleman, who's got a passion for Brontë. And Daisy Buchanan, actually, if we're allowed to even mention on this air, you know, written her first tantalising first fiction debut called Insatiable. That's a bit racy, but the way she described it was that she said, "People want better friends, better job, better sex." So you think, well, why not? Everyone's having a bit of a dead-end life right now, aren't they? So it's all credit to all these women for doing that. And I've interviewed men as well, you know, from, for other radio stations I've been on. I've been very privileged to interview Ruby Wax on her Frazzle tour about her books, and Frank Bruno on his book tour on mental health. And that was such an honour to be one-on-one with those sort of people, you know, incredibly nerve-wracking. But, you know, when they say, right, in next is, you know, the Sky interview, and then Telegraph, and then you, Nikki, you just— I feel humbled, you know. Thank goodness me. But what an absolute honour. I mean, I know what I've absolutely loved and what has really helped me, especially through the various lockdowns and isolations, is that you get to read a book. Reading's gone absolutely through the roof during this pandemic, and then I get to read the book and then chat to the author. It's so lovely, isn't it? Yeah. And then, and then what's— I'm sure you found the same because the Influential Women podcast is very similar to Get Booked in that you just get to the nitty-gritty, you have a good old chat. It's a little bit— how I describe it is a little bit like if you're having a glass of wine in a pub or a coffee in a coffee bar and you're just listening to the table next door chatting. Oh yes, which we're all guilty of, aren't we? Which is true, and I love that. I mean, I've been We've been described as achingly human for the Influential Women podcast, and, you know, been very lucky to have 5-star reviews. And people say, you know, they like to listen on their dog walk now, or, you know, while they're working out or whatever. And I do like to, you know, bring out the inner American in terms of, yes, go deep and, and be, you know, have a slightly different interview for the guest and for myself to actually go deeper and, you know, what really— what do they really feel and what do they really think? Because we're all feeling all sorts of weird stuff right now. The highs are higher, the lows are lower, and, you know, and even within the day, you know, we can be all over the place and everyone's troubled. So I think they can get some strength and some motivation from some of these stories that we share. And I agree, it's very polarized and it's quite interesting, and I think it's helpful for the listeners to hear about the different challenges and understand that sometimes no matter who you are, there's nothing you can do. You just want— you've just got to— you've kind of got to ride the wave. And that's quite an Americanism as well, isn't it? Um, that's true, isn't it? Because we've all lost our mojo and, you know, and it is a bit endless with the hurdles and everything. I quite loved, not loved, but liked lockdown 1 because it was sunny and we were all getting paid and, you know, I had my teenage children, had them home, and I think everyone was more relaxed because they said it was 3 weeks, didn't they? If only we knew then what we know now. And now it's just, it is the key talking point, it is a bonding thing, it's a community thing, it's been a massive pivotal shift for everyone. And everyone's gone digital, and we were already— so, you know, we can be a little bit smug that we were digital slightly beforehand by working from home and doing this. And also working from home, you— people used to laugh when we said we were working from home, didn't they? Whereas now people respect that actually it's hard and can be lonely, and you know, you miss a bit of the buzz. So actually It's made everyone respect everyone else's viewpoint, I think. Well, a little bit like what you were saying on the podcast with Phoebe, if we were told it was going to be a year and a half, I mean, we were all completely losing it over 3 weeks, so I think it's a good job we were drip-fed. Definitely, and actually I think it's going to be more like, you know, it sounds really doom and gloom, but more like the world wars were, you know, in terms of 3 years or something, in terms of 3 or 4 years. I think it might end up being 3 years before it's completely, you know, back to more of a normal, not wanting to be all pessimistic, but in terms of the shift back to how it really was might take another, you know, another year. The thing is though, I mean, what is normal and life does change. And interestingly, as you were saying before about working from home, and before, you know, people used to work from home on a Friday, it was a day where they wouldn't put the kids in childcare, it wasn't necessarily a full day with work happening, and it was a little bit of a joke. And then, and they couldn't put the infrastructure in, all these big companies said it cannot happen, then all of a sudden there's a pandemic and within 24 hours bang, they've managed to make sure that everybody can work from home because it's the only way to keep everybody working. We've had to change our mindsets and now it works. Amazing, and I think now they call it hybrid, don't they? I've seen online and they, and actually I think what, what has helped particularly for women is with childcare and, you know, I've been lucky that, you know, my, my daughter's just started uni last year and my son's gone into sixth form and they were very self-sufficient with their education, but for women that had to, you know, try and work and actually to do lessons all day every day with incredibly young children would have been incredibly hard, really hard and relentless, and no time for themselves, no headspace, and all the other chores and work and everything to do must have been completely mind-blowing because we're all exhausted. But everyone's had their challenges, you know, both of my teams have had um, coronavirus. My daughter's had it twice, my son had it actually the week before last, and it's— oh wow, it's horrendous. Yes, when it happens— yeah, when my daughter had it when she first went to uni, literally I couldn't get to her, they closed the city down, you know, I wouldn't have been able to get to her or I'd have got it, and it was very frightening then. And all these new variants, and I think they both had different variants, so I've become a sort of observer of this horrible disease, but it's frightening. Really frightening. And interestingly, rather bizarrely, I think I probably got it just in the February before we all had the lockdown, just kind of looking back on things. And my eldest son's never had it. Now my youngest son has had it, and the only reason we knew he had it was because I have a friend who she's very cautious and she's very worried because of the certain people that she's got to be around, that she can't risk getting it. So whenever I go to see her, I do a lateral flow test just to make sure and put her mind at rest. And my younger son had it. Well, bizarrely, my son had it, um, and he did two lateral flow tests and both of them said it was negative, but I took him for a PCR because he he was so ill that I just thought something's not right, and actually he did have it. So, and the doctor said it's actually for— really, the lateral flow is for asymptomatic people. So I think people should be overcautious if they think something's not right, you know, from instinct, to get it checked. It's bonkers, isn't it? It's all bonkers. And, you know, you may or may not want to leave some of that bit in, but in terms of It's a very strange world. It's made us accept and be grateful for an awful lot, and to count our blessings, really, and to be able to uplift people with things like this. And as you say, reading— I've read more, actually, in lockdown. I think people have had to, you know, reach in rather than reach out and do what brings them sort of comfort and relaxation, really. Well, do you know what? You can absolutely choose what route you want to go down. This is what I've loved, and I've— it's a bit of a standing joke how many books I've read, and I read a lot anyway, but especially in the last 18 months. If I wanted to have a giggle, you get a comedy. If you want to be completely distracted, you go on to a nice kind of domestic noir thriller. If you felt like you just weren't— this is something that's happened a lot in lockdown, that people have just felt like they haven't been living their life. They've kind of been put on pause. So I've learned something, you know, I've, I've read about something and I felt as if— yes, yeah, yes. And there's, there's sometimes you just want to find out about other people because there's so many people out there that have had different experiences and you get to find out about other people, enrich your mind, entertain yourself. And it's, um, and I've absolutely loved just completely absorbing myself and also the fact that you can— yeah, and you can consume a book in so many different ways. Now there are people out there that don't like to read or maybe they struggle to read, but you've got Audible and Audible— Kindle, yes. Yeah, it has— Audible's been fantastic for me when I've done the walk. Podcasts and Blinkist now, you know, in terms of high— praising, you know, some of those books and learning and courses. I've been doing a course, actually, a life empowerment coaching course, which is my next little, uh, goal in terms of completing that and then, uh, you know, introducing that to some of my work. Because I think people, people are lost, and, um, particularly now, and, you know, with particularly women and youth and, um just helping them find a bit of a way back really. Or to understand that other people are possibly going through the same as you are, or very similar. Exactly, exactly, which is a very bonding thing. Now what I found is because we're all walking a lot, and if you imagine before when we weren't even allowed to walk with somebody else, only the people that were in your household, and the last thing you want to do is carry on speaking to them. I know, is that weird that we weren't allowed to walk with anyone in our house, or not everyone in your house, or whatever? It's just, we need to— I need— I've suddenly thought I need to document this with some photos or journal or something, because, you know, in 10, 15 years we'll look back and not be able to believe we had signs for everything we were allowed to do. It's absolutely crazy, but at least we could— I mean, it got to a stage at one point there was just me and my two I've got two boys and we were constantly just with each other and we passed somebody in the street like, oh, this is nice seeing you with your, you know, I've got a teenager and a slightly younger one. Oh, you're all happy together walking around. We thought you'd all want to be completely separate and we all took our hoods off and we've all got our AirPods in. I'm listening to my podcast. I did with my two actually. We'd walk in the park but actually we'd go on different shifts so because everyone needed their headspace and actually Walking with headphones, I discovered, because I never used to walk, I used to swim before the— but actually it's really interesting, isn't it? Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry, I haven't even got a home line, so that's just— sorry, we'll just go on through. Call me, what is it? No, I'm intrigued! That's my home phone, but I don't pay for a landline, so I don't even know why it's ringing. I mean, I'm intrigued, in a way I want you to answer it. It'll be a sales call, makes me sound really important, doesn't it, in the middle of your interview. I'm so sorry. You are important. It's just gonna go on and on, isn't it? It's not gonna stop. You've got the option now to say, "Hi, how are you?" Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. I should pick it up and hang it up. Now, because of the ring, is it one of those really old ones with the little dial on? Yes, it is, it is. It's one of those— so you can keep some of that in if you like. It is, it's one of those fabulous— it's gold as well, actually. I love that. It's rose gold. I'll send you a photo so you can put it on the social media. I would like you to do that. You see, the thing is, you see all those kind of phones, it's like the 1970s, 1980s phones. I know, I love them. And you put your finger in— well, actually, that one, it won't let you. It's got— but it's got the dial on the front, but it won't let you put your finger in and push it all the way around. You imagine— I'm so sorry, that rung. I've turned my other one on to Airplane, but obviously that's It's a manual one that never rings. Do you know what, I'm quite impressed actually because I have seen these phones and they're now seen as like a retro kind of thing. Yes, I know, that's why I like it, it's a retro. I will send you a photo actually. Do! But most people have them now where they don't even have wires in them and they're there just to kind of look cool in the living room. But you're like, "That's cool." I know, and I thought it was on your recording actually, I was thinking, "What is that ringing?" and then realised it was me. Oh dear, oh dear. So yes, I was going to tell you about My favorite book at the moment, did you want me to say that? Oh yes, please. So my favorite book at the moment, well actually recently, more probably in lockdown, I don't know what that's about, I've started being interested in light crime in terms of TV or books. I don't like heavy crime, I find it too scary, but Nine Perfect Strangers I read, which is kind of off the wall, and that's obviously out now on Prime, so I'm gonna watch that sometime this week. But I'm also reading at the moment Gillian McAllister, a book called That Night, and it's— I haven't finished it, I'm halfway through, but it's quite interesting that it's, it's a sibling crime. It's a crime that, well, I can't tell you too much about it, but it's a crime that siblings are involved with, and you just think, gosh, that's really interesting how far you'd go with family or yourself. So it's a real scruples and sort of moral values sort of thing. So that's quite interesting, um, because I like the sort of light psychological, nothing too gory. And Clickbait on Netflix, actually— I know that's not reading, but I've finished that last night, and that was really creepy about internet dating, um, and that was a good one that's trending. So, uh, I'm obviously— be joined the brigade of true crime and fiction and non-fiction crime, but as long as it's light. See, I like to mix it up. So I'm very— I like to involve myself with the writing community on Twitter, and quite often I'll say, "Right, I've just done a kind of autobiography, and I've had something incredibly heavy and dark. I now need something really funny," and I wait for the suggestions to come in. That's a good idea. I need to mix it up a bit more than because mine are more like psychological thrillers that I tend to, to get drawn to rather than the romance type ones now. But actually comedy would be good, and I like the autobiography ones. Well, I think it's nice just to appreciate somebody else's life and somebody else's perspective, and the more we can understand other people, the better we can actually be to each other. And I do remember at one point I was getting a lot of publicists sending me books about how to better ourselves and to look deeper. And sometimes that can be too taxing. We needed a little bit of a control-alt-delete sometimes, don't we? That's so true, because there is an overwhelm of, you know, well-being and mental health and everything at the moment. So you're right, comedy, it is good for the soul. Sometimes, you know, when we used to commute a bit more, I would listen to comedy in the car on podcasts and that sort of thing. And it does make you laugh, you know, listening to somebody else laugh is very infectious, isn't it? And then it does change your mood. And dancing in, in my kitchen I've started doing since Rangan Chatterjee, I love, and Jay Shetty, I love their books and their podcasts, and they are very into that sort of spend 5 minutes on yourself moving and it does change your mood physiologically. And actually it really works. Have a little dance while you put the kettle on. It does change your mood. I do do it, much to my kids' absolute disgust. Oh yes, they are, they're horrified with whatever we do now, so we just think it doesn't matter. It just releases the happy hormones. Because those— I know you wanted some of those wellbeing tips, I'll just whiz through some of those because— Well, I was just going to point out, just with the podcast, that I did actually listen to Shaun Locke the other day, for obvious reasons, but I was walking around with my dog, just me and my dog, I was in hysterics. Oh really? I need to listen to that. Oh, I looked like an absolutely crazy person, just gig— I was cackling, it was that good. That's good though, that'll make people think, oh, I'm surprised they didn't ask what you're listening to. A couple of people did actually, they were quite keen and they went, oh yeah, okay, because sometimes people forget about you know, they're listening to music on their walks and then they forget actually there are podcasts. And I just want to point out to everybody to pop onto podcast.apple.com and to search out the Influential Women podcast. And I would like to ask you actually, who have you got coming up for people to look out for? Oh well, I don't know if we're allowed to give a preview of the ones that haven't been aired yet, but I have got an exciting guest who is a broadcaster that about to come out soon. I love interviewing the broadcasters. I interviewed Kirsty Young just before she left the BBC, and that Desert Island Discs and the people she's interviewed, I used to literally pull over if I was in the car listening, or because I think her voice is so amazing and her guests were so inspiring. I remember her talking to Tom Hanks and Judi Dench, people that I would just be speechless to interview, and just to hear her voice with mine, I was so honored and humbled. And so people of that sort of ilk, I've got a broadcast coming up and a few other exciting people like that, and authors and people to sort of change your mindset. I love that, and it just shows how important the podcast is. I would also, I'd love to know who would be your dream guest. Oh gosh, well, I, I always say, shoot for the stars and land in the sky. So, you know, I'm the Queen, Oprah, you know, uh, you know, Michelle Obama. I knew that was coming, I knew it. All those incredible, you know, those visionaries and those women that, you know, paved the ground for other women. People like that I'm just in awe of. I will text Michelle Obama, I'll tell her you're really interested. I'll get in touch with you. But incredible authors, you know, people about their lives. But I'm as interested talking to women, you know, in the community that have done amazing things to help others. You know, I interviewed this vicar once when I used to do journalism and write several pages a month for a magazine. And I interviewed this vicar once who, she had 5 of her own children and she adopted 2 refugees' children as well. And then every night she would drive around rescuing homeless people and taking them either to the church or to her home where the children were, you know, and that could have been dangerous, but she helped them. She set up a school, a house after the Olympics, took all the stuff they didn't need from the 2012 Olympics, and, you know, she educated them. She took some of them climbing, walking to Everest, and changed— just changed people's lives. I just couldn't believe it. She won a crime award for helping take crime off the streets of New York. They wanted to use her as a model. It was incredible. She really, you know, made me think. It's interesting, and I wouldn't advocate people putting themselves into a particularly precarious or dangerous situation, but if you don't take risks, your life can be very different. But the fact she just had that trust, and she just said that anybody can lose their home or change their life at any minute. And she said whatever background they're from, however privileged they are, if your name's not on the mortgage or you lose your job or, you know, you turn to an addiction or whatever, your life can change and you can be on the street. And it just really, you know, this was years ago, just completely changed my thinking. This is what I like about just sharing stories and just reminding people just how incredible anybody and everybody can be. And it does actually take me through to, um, a question I do like to ask all my guests here for Get Booked. Is there somebody out there— and I think you'll find there's so many people on social media that are more about themselves, or they make people feel as if they're missing out on life, or that they're not necessarily attaining what they should be. And I want to encourage our listeners to look out for people on social media, or just in life, you know, maybe they're just having articles written about them, doesn't necessarily have to be on social media, who are just agents for change, something positive. Who do you think out there at the moment is completely knocking it out of the park? Gosh, who on social media is? Gosh, I'm inspired and follow an awful lot of people actually on social media. Oh, I'd have to think about that one. I don't know, I mean, people probably like Florence Given, who has inspired my daughter's generation really, and I think she's only very early 20s, but the way she encourages young women to have self-worth and self-belief has really been quite life-changing for my daughter's generation, and, and actually to not seek sort of external validation But, you know, I think that from somebody who's a similar age as a role model for them— she's someone I'd like to interview actually— that you think actually if that makes a difference to those young women, that they don't have to seek perfection or relationships in order to validate themselves, then that is a huge positive lesson for them. I absolutely love that, and I think it is about changing the narrative, because the old narrative clearly it's not working, and we need to move with The Times. I love it that in theory while you were saying that you were scribbling down "get in touch with Florence Given." And I was also surfing on this because I've got a meeting in 5 minutes that they just sent me a link for that, so it's amazing how we can multitask. But I just want to, if that's okay, to rattle through— you asked me to come up with 3 tips on mental health. Yes, please. So you asked me to come up with 3 tips on mental well-being, and as is the nature of our, of the way we ramble on audio and podcasts and radio, it's a slightly lengthier version than 3. But obviously the challenges that each of us are facing right now, you know, I've loved doing shows on this station. I've been on my local BBC Radio Suffolk 10 times in lockdown actually about well-being and trying to uplift and motivate and change people's mindsets. But my 3 would probably be firstly, find your endorphins and happy hormones, uh, your happy hormones, and release them. And as we talked about, walking or exercise, or, you know, mine is swimming as well. Something I literally feel after 20 minutes swimming or walking that your grisly mood actually shifts. It's almost like a reset button. You can walk or swim when you're angry and you're like, and you, and suddenly you think, oh look, there's a leaf, or oh, and you become a bit more childlike. I think that really helps. That's called forest bathing, isn't it? Oh, is that what it's called? Yeah, yeah, Google it. I like that, I'm gonna look that up. So secondly, I always ramble on to my children, who sometimes roll their eyes and sometimes they listen, but I think one day they'll take this wisdom. And I always say that, you know, that our minds are overwhelmed. Get out of your head space and into your heart space. And I give them mantras and daily— I love mantras, daily mantras, because everyone's suffering overwhelm and burnout. And I just say, you know, um, that just try and do something that gets that monkey mind, because it can be overwhelming and it's not necessarily— your thoughts aren't your thoughts. And, um, just to feel a bit calmer and a bit less anxious or overwhelmed or stressed, which everyone is, just being in their head too much at the moment, or being on their own too much, or being less self-aware. And I said the other day to them that we can either have a mindset of scarcity, where we haven't got enough, or abundance, where we have everything we need, not necessarily everything we want, which I tell myself every day, but I think that helps from a mindset shift. So secondly, I'd say the mindset and the mind shift. And lastly, I'd say follow your passion. To anyone listening out there, you know, read what you like, do what you like, do something, change something in your life if it's not working, if you're not happy about it. Do something that follows your heart even more than the money, because the money will follow, or the money's there, it just hasn't arrived yet. And, uh, do something that just makes you happier because it's not about money, it's about doing something that you feel as though you're intended to do or be, or something that you want to do, and not just doing the same old same old because it's safer or easier. So that's what I'd say, as well as saying tune in to the Influential Women podcast. It's coming up for 100,000 downloads. I'm so excited. Incredible. But I must say, I've absolutely loved them, and I've been down downloading them, ready to go on my walks over the weekend as well. It is stunning. I thoroughly loved it, and I, I'm just gutted that we don't have enough time to, to chat to you. I'm sure we're going to have many other opportunities to have you back on the show for Get Booked here at Men's and Women's Radio Station. Just a little bit of a reminder out there to all you listeners, you can find out more about Nikki Bannerman at Nikki Bannerman Radio and you can search out the Influential Women's Podcast on Apple Podcasts, and they're absolutely everywhere and they're fantastic. And as Nikki was saying, there's some fantastic guests that are going to be coming up as well. Over 100 podcasts, listening to women from so many different backgrounds who've had different lives and who have made their impact on the world in so many different ways. And do you know what? I found it, especially myself here throughout the pandemic, that it's just nice to hear a good old conversation. We've missed out on being able to overhear what people are talking about. I love a little bit of earwicking, and this is exactly what I love about the Influential Women's Podcast. Fantastic endeavor. I love it to absolute pieces. Follow on Influential_WomenPodcast, please, on Insta. Download the Influential Women Podcast. It's now on Amazon Music. I'm very excited about— you can ask Alexa to play the Influential Women Podcast. You can download it on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and Deezer, and Stitcher, and Comcast, and a zillion other podcast platforms. But, uh, love books, love your show. Getting booked. GetBooked is such a good idea, GetBooked, to listen to books, and you can't get enough of them. And an honor to be on your show. Thank you so much, Nicky, and thank you for coming on the show, and I can't wait to do another show with you. Oh, bless you, yeah, we can do a part 2 and where, where we think the next course of books or whatever you need. And I'll send you a photo of my rose gold retro phone. Just a quick reminder for all you regular listeners out there to get booked. We did put out a rather unique show a couple of weeks ago where I had a special show of readings and reviews for various great books to get stuck into. There was Alcohol Reconsidered by Leslie J. Miller, Her Allies by Advancing You here at ALI, and Her New Best Friend by the fantastic author Penny Batchelor. And there was a fourth book, Sleeping, by Evan Bolduc, but because these shows are often pre-recorded, when we pre-recorded the show, it was before everything that happened in Afghanistan. And since the recent events, the reading that was from Sleeping still had the original prose, and it has since been pulled by the author, and he's basing the storyline in a different country just out of respect and just to be on the safe side. So just a quick reminder there, if you are listening back, as you can always listen, listen into various Get Booked shows and many of the other shows at Women's and Men's Radio Station on our SoundCloud. So quick reminder that, um, if you think it is a little bit possibly antagonistic, then please do be aware that Sleeping is going to be re-released towards the end of September, and it's going to be set in a different country. During our chat, Nikki Bannerman gave some fantastic hints and tips on good well-being, and we've been talking about self-help and how to look after ourselves and how to look after our mindset and understand our mindset, and it's such a powerful tool to to understand what brings us down and what we can do to bring ourselves back up again. I do often write about things like that on my website at hazelbutterfield.com, and there's a particular one that I wrote recently that I think is incredibly important, and I'm going to read this one out to you now, and it's called Who Holds the Power Over Your Emotional State. Can you imagine that? Control over our emotional state. Why do others have such power over our mental state and general mood, both in the positive and negative way? How to win at life: let people do what they need to do to make them happy. Mind your own business and do what you need to do to make you happy. The end. See, I can be swayed in the blink of an eye. When it's positive, it's fabulous, and indeed that can be self-created. However, in the reverse, it's frustratingly draining. The power that one solitary act of thoughtlessness, or worse, whether intended or not, can doom a mood. We must be mindful of what we're putting out there. We as human beings are generally social beings and therefore are susceptible to outside influence. More so with the emergence over the last decade of social media. It's not uncommon for those sitting behind technology to seek out those just to hit with venom. It's no doubt an outlet for a very damaged soul, but does that excuse it? I suspect those that have been the recipient of such behavior would have less compassion. I myself have had this frequently. Um, I remember putting something up on social media where I literally just had a beer and a Solera, and I was like, yay, this is great! And I do generally pout quite a lot. Um, it's— I've actually written a piece about that as well on hazelbutterfield.com. It's because I don't like the way I look when I smile. There are many things things that we don't like about ourselves, and one of my things is that I think I look a little bit goofy when I smile, and I used to shy away from the camera, and because of my job I kind of need to be in front of the camera quite a bit, and yes, I do pout quite a lot, yes, a lot of people have something to say about that as well, but it is something that I do tend to do occasionally, you'll see posts of me giggling or laughing like a buffoon, but if you are followers of my Instagram, which is @nuttybuttykang, you'll see there's a lot of pouting. And I remember a complete stranger once just got in touch and private messaged me and said— and I can't use the exact words— and there was a particular post where I wasn't pouting, they just said, when you don't pout, you look totally beep. Um, don't know them. Obviously my Instagram is open, and it's just one of those things that was kind of just affirming what I already thought anyway. But there was no need to do it whatsoever. They'd blatantly been trolling through my Instagram and just decided to say something. And it kind of got me down, even though I already knew, uh, I already suspected what they were saying. But it's just interesting what people think is necessary to put out there. Um, interestingly, um, the, the person called Katya wanted to weirdly, um, become friends, so I blocked them. But it's just an example of what so many people see all the time, and it's completely unnecessary. And people just quite often just want attention. But, you know, this concept has increased in its notoriety, and the well-known coined phrase of, "In a world where you can be anything, be kind." The irony being that those who are most likely to wax lyrical about such are those relentlessly on the socials with a perceived belief in the relevance of their constant opinions, with little or no thought of the repercussions. And boredom can be devilish. The power of negativity I recall a day recently when everything just went well. The kids got up well, they went to school, my hair kind of didn't just decide to not play ball, interactions while out walking my dog, everything, it was all brilliant. I even completed my to-do list and had some random nice messages from friends and work colleagues. I am so incredibly lucky to have great people around me. It even took me aback how calm and relaxed I felt within myself, which is ridiculous, I'm sure. The one mean comment on my, on my work, incensed as it turned out by jealousy, and do you know what? I slumped. I completely and utterly slumped. Everything was going well and it was just one negative comment. Why did it matter so much? Why can't it be water off a duck's back? However, it is very easy to be kind and pleasant. Generally, it takes considerably more effort and venom to be cruel and spiteful, and that's the difference. Somebody has gone out of their way to be problematic and intentionally upset you. It's the motive that is all-encompassing. But as I would say to anyone else that received such treatment, does the opinions of someone that insipid matter. Would you want to be on their wavelength? I came across a great passage in Lulu Woods' book Milkshakes for the Almost Dead, which is also a past Get Booked show. You can find it on Women's Radio Station SoundCloud, and I absolutely love this passage. Now, no, she says into my hair, hugging me tightly, I think I might stop breathing, but I don't want her to stop. No, Diana, you are loved and you are exactly the right amount. Don't dilute yourself, Diana, for anyone. Don't pretend to be anything other than yourself to please someone else. If they don't get you, so what? Someone else will. If they don't understand why you care about something, go and talk to somebody else who does. If your passion makes them feel uncomfortable, uncomfortable. Who cares? You will inspire someone else. You must never pretend to be different, Diana, to make somebody else feel better. You are you, and that is all you should be. And you have to love you. You have to. I love that. Just a quick reminder, that's Milkshakes for the Almost Dead by Lulu Wood. It's kind of seen as teen fiction, but I can't wait for the next one to come out. I absolutely loved it. It kind of encompass so many different areas of the world right now and the way people are and the way that adults and teens and children interact with each other and just how life has changed. Please do go search it out. It's absolutely fantastic. But yeah, we do have bad days. They just happen. We don't all behave perfectly and function as we wish we could or should. Try and think outside the box. Put yourself in other people's shoes when you think you've been treated or spoken to unfairly. Compassion can be a wonderful tool. It's harder when they're more frequent, undoubtedly, but we are stronger than we think. Try compassion and move on. That is a blog, as I said, on my website called Who Holds the Power Over Your Emotional State. Now, as I was saying before, if you can find the one thing— if you truly understand yourself— that is going to put you back in a positive mindset, whether it's going for a run, whether it's taking the dog for a walk, or if you don't have a dog, making sure you've made friends with somebody that's happy with you to borrow their dog. Maybe it's listening to live music or cooking. I know that if I'm ever feeling a little bit not quite 100% or maybe not even 50%, 50%, you know, open up a nice bottle of red and I start cooking. I do batch cooking, I then deliver it around to my friends or put it in the freezer, and I thoroughly love it. My kids will quite often join in with me too, and it's just a way to kind of get on board with each other. I ramp up the music or put comedy on my iPad, and just— that normally brings me back round again. Or occasionally just write. I'm such a fan of this, and this is why I love Get Booked. Yes, I love to read, but this book show is also about writing, which is why we speak to authors about their methods and how they manage to do what they do. You don't have to write for somebody else to read it. Sometimes, I quite often call it a brain dump, you just need to write down what's going in your head. Maybe that will work for you. If you haven't tried it before, give it a go. Sometimes things are so jumbled up in our brain and we can't quite find meaning in it. However, if you just write things down, compartmentalize it, and you'd be surprised how much clearer things are and how much more you can concentrate if you are ordering your thoughts and writing them down. And then you can come back to them rather than worried that you might forget something that's going on in your brain. I know that that's— that happens with me sometimes. I just want to be able to know what's going on and to order my thoughts. Now, if there's anyone out there that writes nice blogs on self-help, or maybe you want to come onto the show and have a bit of a chat— are you a lover of books? Are you thinking about writing a book? Book, or are you in the process of publishing your first book? Maybe you're self-publishing and you want to tell the world about what you've done, uh, why you've done it, and how you think it can help other people. Please do get in touch with me at hazelbutterfield.com, or you can email me at hazel@womensradiostation.com. Have a look online and see the sort of shows that we do. And I found, especially in lockdown, our listeners have increased because they're just wanting that kind of social interaction, listening to each other, having conversations, talking about our lives, not just the positives but the struggles we've gone through as well. As we were talking to Nikki Bannerman as well about how on the Influential Women's Podcast people are talking about what they've been going through over the last couple of years, what they've gone through to try and write and to get through life with their families. It isn't all roses, and I think the more that we're honest with each other and we talk about it, the better it is. And if you can pop on to hazelbutterfield.com, try and have a look at some of those blogs. Maybe you've written a blog yourself and you'd like me to read it out on the show, in which case you can get in touch with me on my website. Now I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting away to Nikki Bannerman today, and I just want to remind you again, you can pop onto her website at nickibannermanradio.co.uk, find out all about her. She's incredibly inspirational, and I love what she's doing with the Influential Women's Podcast. As Nikki said, you can pretty much find it anywhere. The main point— and I will put it up on my Twitter @nutty Butty. I know it's a rather silly Twitter account, but I love it. Nutty Hazel Butty Butterfield. See what I did there? And I'll put up a link so you can find it on the Apple Podcast. But as Nikki said, you can pretty much download and listen to the podcast anywhere. And I think this is what's wonderful about podcasts and about Audible and about reading. It's a way of consuming other people's lives. And whether you're and just wanting something to break up your walks, your runs, your gym time, now that we're allowed to be back in the gym. It's, it's just such an amazing world that we're living in that we can consume books and podcasts this way because, you know, even myself, I, I love to read, but occasionally I just want to look around at what's going on, use my eyes just to actually engage with people, and yet at the same time, you know, have your AirPods in and just shoot the breeze and have a lovely time. A few suggestions of books to get stuck into, some of which have actually guested on the show. First up is Reclaim Your Time Off by Fab Giavanetti. This book, after the last year, I'm sure is going to be beneficial to many of us. A book that needs to be embraced to get our work time and you time back on track. The lines have become too blurred. Our bedrooms, dining table, and sofa time have become our new pandemic office. Working from home has enabled us and yet disabled us at the same time. However, for way too many of us, this was an issue long before COVID In the modern working world, we work We work really hard, on average over 60 hours per week, and in order to do more, we silently have agreed to sacrifice our time off. Burnout is a ubiquitous buzzword, the inbox of shame and productivity paralysis describing a normal working day. Fab did actually join me for a chat to discuss discuss reclaiming our time off. And with a name like that, I really feel like we should listen. So you can go and check that out on our SoundCloud. Another book to get involved with if you fancy a little bit of gritty fiction is The Man on the Street by Trevor Wood. I can see why Lee Child thinks this is an instant classic. A gritty and addictive thriller that takes an endearing and enlightening look at the person behind the homelessness challenging perceptions, yet with humor, humility, and lots of violence. Focusing on mental illness and the abandonment of veterans who have slipped the recent net of awareness regarding the repercussions of PTSD and integration back into society after service. When Jimmy, an ex-veteran on the streets of Newcastle, witnesses a potential murder, his determination to maintain "not my fight" and keep a low profile to keep out of trouble plunges him into a whirlwind of anything and everything he normally aims to avoid at all costs. But is it for the better? Hmm. The Man on the Street by Trevor Wood. Another good one is We Are Family by Nicola Gill, another ex-guest of GetBooked. This is a great story looking at the struggles we have deciphering who we are supposed to be and how we're supposed to behave in regards to how society assumes or dictates. We Are Family tackles the very complex nature of grief and grief guilt, how we evolve as our needs and responsibilities change, jealousy, internal conflict, how families don't naturally get on lies, trolling, and just how much a diet really matters. It is ridiculously funny, raw, and endearing, challenging perceptions and relationships. So We Are Family by Nicola Gill. And finally, before the end of today's show, Look What You Made Me Do by Nikki Smith. What this book explores is the complexities of abusive relationships and the coercive nature that can destroy all surrounding relationships. A process that is calculated, devious, alarmingly subtle, and preys on the shock embarrassment factor. A powerful reminder that you very rarely know what's going on in somebody else's life. How our past can distort our future or our perception of it. How lonely you can be even when surrounded by family. It's an addictive and very clever scarily realistic story on abuse, family politics, and how keeping secrets is toxic. The reviews for this book are incredible for a very good reason. I hope that that has given you enough to get booked and entertained up until next week's show. Thank you so much to everybody for listening in to Get Booked today, and I'll be back Next week with a different show. Please do get in touch, tell your friends, spread the love, and go and check out womensradiostation.com and mensradiostation.com for all the other shows that you can listen to. There are some absolutely fantastic shows out there, and I'm so proud of what we have been putting out there for all of our listeners. We did manage to win an award the other day, which was very exciting. So definitely another reason for you to go and check out what we are doing. And, um, if you are wanting to sponsor a show, you can get in touch that way as well. You've been listening to Hazel Butterfield for Get Booked, women's and men's radio station. Enjoy the rest of your day.