In this special double episode of Get Booked, host Hazel Butterfield welcomes two remarkable authors. First up is Peter Scott-Pressland, discussing his latest book A Gay Century Volume 2: 1973 to 2001, the sequel to his acclaimed first volume. Peter’s unique approach presents historical events through a deliberately gay-centric lens, told as “unreliable vignettes”—short playlets that are psychologically true even when factually playful. With his signature dry wit and camp humor, Peter reimagines moments from queer history that were deliberately suppressed or overlooked, from the AIDS epidemic to the Admiral Duncan pub bombing, all while weaving a thematic arc between Queen Victoria’s repression and Oscar Wilde’s liberation.
Following Peter’s interview, Hazel speaks with Hastie Saleh about her debut novel Dahlia & Carys, published in March. This gripping story explores forbidden love and identity as its protagonist, Dalia, navigates trauma, cultural conflict, and a budding romance with Carys. Haunted by memories of her friend Yasmin’s kidnapping by ISIS and concerned about her brother’s extremist associations, Dalia must confront her past by returning to Iraq. Both authors share extracts from their work, giving listeners an intimate taste of their distinctive voices and storytelling styles.
Main Topics
Peter Scott-Pressland's A Gay Century Volume 2 reimagines historical events from 1973-2001 through a deliberately gay perspective, presenting them as psychologically true rather than factually accurate
The book uses dialogue-based playlets to tell stories about both famous historical figures and ordinary gay and lesbian 'foot soldiers,' making it accessible for varied reading styles and attention spans
A thematic arc runs through both volumes, symbolized by the battle between Queen Victoria (repression) and Oscar Wilde (liberation), culminating in Oscar's victory in the final 2001 piece
Peter's favorite pieces include Valentine de Vere, featuring three original 1920s cabaret parodies, and the final story about two men aged 102 and 98 who have been together for 81 years
Hastie Saleh's Dahlia & Carys tackles complex themes of trauma, cultural identity, gender, and forbidden love while addressing contemporary issues like ISIS and radicalization
Both authors use their work to celebrate overlooked histories and challenge how dominant narratives have shaped our understanding of the past
Full TranscriptHello, you're listening to Hazel Butterfield. This is Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station, a show all about b...▼
Hello, you're listening to Hazel Butterfield. This is Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station, a show all about books, and I'm a huge book fan, so I love doing this show. Get Booked is all about talking to authors, chatting about anything and everything books related, all the joy, enlightenment, and escape that good books can provide. Sit back and let us entertain you with the different guests each week, sharing who they are, what they do, and what inspires them. On today's show, we have a double whammy of First up on the show, we have Peter Scott Presland chatting to me about his latest book, A Gay Century Volume 2: 1973 to 2001. Coming up after Peter Scott Presland, we then have Hesti Asela with her book Dahlia and Charis, which was published on the 19th of March of this year. Dahlia and Charis tells the intriguing story of forbidden love and a woman's heartbreaking struggle to to reconcile her fragmented cultural and gender identities despite family dynamics. Dalia finds herself plagued with flashbacks of not intervening in her school friend Yasmin's kidnapping by ISIS in Iraq. Back in London, her brother Elias is showing perilous signs of affiliation with terrorists. All the while, Dalia is slowly opening up to a captivating new presence in London. Karis. She begins to find solace in their relationship of love and trust, yet Dalia feels that she cannot truly move on with her life until she returns to Iraq, the place wrought with guilt. Will Karis join her on this dangerous journey to find Yasmin? Now, both of today's authors are also doing some extracts from their books just at the end of each interview, so I hope you enjoy those. And as ever, please do get get in touch with me at hazel@womensradiostation.com, or you can pop onto my website at hazelbutterfield.com. Right then, next up on the show we have Peter Scott-Presland chatting to me about his latest book, A Gay Century Volume 2, no less, 1973 to 2001, released earlier this year, of which Volume 1 was released back in September 2021, which was described as 10 unreliable vignettes of lesbian and gay life. Volume Volume 2 sees 7 more supposedly unreliable vignettes of gay and lesbian life, taking a moment in history where the likelihood of the gay element or even relevance has been suppressed, and in these vignettes or playlets, if you will, it's brought to the fore in a deliciously camp, funny, ridiculous, and yet possibly not too far away from the truth depiction of historical events. A more kind of gay-centric point of view delivered in Peter's inimitably dry-witted and eloquent style, and so much fun. Peter is the founder-director of Homo's Promos at homospromos.org and has written much of its material. Peter, hi, thank you for joining us on Get Booked. Hello, thank you very much for having me on your show. You are very welcome. Now, um, great book. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the variety of of different playlets that you have in there, and you must have had so much fun putting those together. Absolutely. Some of them were a bit of a challenge, I must admit. There was one in the first volume about the Jeremy Thorpe, um, trial, murder trial, told from the point of view of the dogs that were involved, the two dogs. Yes, writing a canine eye view of a murder trial is quite difficult. I can imagine. But you know what, we all like a challenge every now and again, don't we? Absolutely, absolutely. Um, can I, can I just say, in terms of whether these are true or not, um, they break down into stories which are about famous people that you would have heard of, the, the heroes or heroines of the past, and ones which are just about the foot— the gay foot soldiers, if you like. Um, the ones that are about the, um about the well-known people. Um, George Simenon said about his autobiography, everything about it is true except the facts. And this is a bit like that, really. They are psychologically true, shall we say that? Well, I mean, that's why I said in my intro, you know, that they probably— they are quite deliciously camp and somewhat ridiculous in a way, but also painfully quite true depiction of historical events, just from a different point of view that was intentionally refused to be acknowledged. Yes, absolutely. And the other thing is there is a sort of arc, a theme going through the whole thing, through both volumes, which is the battle between Queen Victoria on the one hand and Oscar Wilde on the other. Victoria representing repression and Wilde representing liberation. And that plays out through all 17 to the climax of the last one, uh, number 17 in 2001, which is presided over by a portrait of Queen Victoria, um, which is removed at the end and replaced with a portrait of Oscar Wilde. So Oscar Wilde wins in the end. Oh dear, I've given it all away. Uh, yeah, well, it's all very tongue-in-cheek, isn't it? But it, you know, it does have a kind of serious underlying theme in theory. Yes, there are, there, there are serious themes bubbling below the surface all, all the way through. I think the most— the two most serious ones, the most traumatic ones, um, are one called Quarantine, uh, which is set in 1984, which is about the AIDS epidemic, uh, which is one of the defining incidents of, of, of queer life for the last 100 120 years. Um, and the other was the Admiral Duncan bombings in 1999. I don't know if people may remember that there were three of them. There was one for black— of a black, uh, market, um, vegetable market at Brixton. There was one of the bombing of the East London Mosque, um, and third one was this bombing of a gay pub called the Admiral Duncan in Soho, in which four people were killed. So those really are the kind of the nitty-gritty ones. Others play around with themes in a much more, much more frothy way, if I can put it that way. I think, yeah, frothy is a good way, but also it's kind of revisiting stories that were glossed over because the time suited it. That was what media wanted to depict. And I suppose you have a chance to kind of rewrite the reality a little bit. Absolutely. And also there are little incidents which are revealing, which nobody knows about at all, although they are true. I mean, for example, the idea that— again, this is— I'm going back to Volume 1, I'm afraid, here— in Ivan Novello being imprisoned in Wandsworth Prison for refusing to— well, not refusing, but fiddling his, um, his petrol coupons during the Second World War. Now that's the equivalent of somebody like Andrew Lloyd Webber or Elton John being sent to prison, um, for tax dodging or something like that. You know, it's really, really big stories which have completely been forgotten. Well, yeah, because, you know, it even happens now sometimes, um, the powers that be, they can't do what they want to do to people, so they have to find a different way around getting what they want. Oh, absolutely, yes. I think, I think that's true. I mean, I do hope these are subversive in, in a way, and I hope they are— they're celebrating— I hope they're celebrating some of our heroes. Not, not just heroes for, for queer people, because, because heroes for queer people can be heroes for everybody. I mean, I think Elton John is an example of that, for example. Um, it's, it's, it can be quite universal. Well, I believe in putting people in— yeah, I, I think I'm pretty certain that the way A Gay Century Volume 2 came across to me is exactly how you wanted it to come across. Great, that is very nice to know. Yeah, they're just, they're so much fun yet informative at the same time, and your character comes across, uh, throughout every single one of them, you, you know, very tongue-in-cheek, very dry-witted, and I can kind of— I have visions of how you're writing these and you're suddenly just going, "Oh, and another thing," and then you've suddenly come across an idea and then you're squirreling away and then giggling to yourself at the same time as you're penning to paper. You know when you're on a roll, when you make yourself laugh. Yeah. When something, you know, comes to mind, you know, without you consciously thinking of it and you have a giggle. That's definitely true. I mean, I think these are short stories. I mean, the fact that they're written in dialogue, I don't think is that important, and I don't think it should put people off because there are novels that are written in— there are, yeah, there's whole novels that are written in dialogue. The Kiss of the Spider Woman, for example, is like that. The Rakes of Roth, large parts of that are are just nothing but dialogue. All the Ivy Compton Burnett novels. So this is a form that has been used, but I don't think it's been used in this kind of concentrated short story kind of way. I've seen it a little bit, but I must say, I think for most readers, variety is key. And for those that aren't necessarily avid readers because they struggle to get through a whole book, I like the idea of the playlets because it means people can stop and start. With a little bit more freedom. Yes, absolutely. And I'm a great believer of giving, giving plenty of white space on the page as well. It makes things much easier to read. So I hope, I hope they are easy to read. They definitely were. I think at one point a friend of mine was watching me read your book and she's like, did you just skip through like 40 pages? I was like, it's just, it just kind of jumps off the page. You should give it a go. Now I must, I must ask you, which was your favorite to write in Volume 2? The one— the favorite one for me to write was actually the first one, which, which is, uh, I don't know, maybe it's a bit specialist, uh, but, uh, the first one is about, as, as you know, um, an old cabaret artist of the 1920s who's down on his luck. Valentine de Vere. Valentine de Vere, yes, out of his council flat. And is sort of rescued by two members of the Gay Liberation Front, who are the sort of radical queens of the time, who are going around the council estate trying to get people to go along to the children's party they're organizing in their squat. And there's a kind of clash between two generations of gay people there. But what I loved about it was writing the character, of this old camp, very flamboyant man who used to be a cabaret star. And I wrote 3 of his cabaret songs, 3 parody 1920s cabaret songs. And I was very, I was very proud of, of that as well. I suppose my second favorite is, um, because I do like, I do like old people. My second favorite is actually the last one, which is called Two Into One, which is when civil partnerships first came in in 2001. Uh, there was experimental ones, uh, in London organized by Ken Livingstone, and, uh, I was one of the first people to have their civil partnership done, uh, then. And, um, a little while about after that, I came across a man, uh, called Hugh Gercueno, who lived in Switzerland. He was a singer, and they introduced civil partnerships, and he decided he was going to have a civil partnership with his, with his, with his, with his partner, and they did. And he's the oldest person ever to have a civil partnership, and he was 100 104 at the time. Oh my God, yeah. So, so in this last one, you get an old man of 102 and his boyfriend of 98 who have been together for 81 years. Yeah, they do a— and they, they look back over the whole of their life together, and they are sort of gay history personified, the two of them, and all the things that they've been through tie up with all the things that other people have been through in the other plays as well. And I like writing— there's a lot of affection in those two characters because although they're 80, they've been together for 80 years, they actually never stop arguing as well. They're, they're always insulting each other, and it's, it's like the arguments are what keep them alive, uh, and keep them together really. I can't understand that as well because can you imagine if you just had nothing to say to each other and life was just a little bit plain and smooth running. I mean, it'd be nice if life was smooth running, but there's no— there's nothing to keep you alive, you know. And a little bit of an argument every now and again, or a little bit of conflict, it boosts things. I think we all know couples who are like that as well, who are constantly arguing. But if they stopped arguing, they wouldn't have anything to say to each other. They wouldn't know what to do. Yeah, quite. I mean, there's a fine line, and I think quite a lot of us use that fine line a little bit like a skipping rope. That's a good analogy. That's very good. Well, you can use that if you want. You can use it in Volume 3, which I assume is in the making. I'm now into the 21st century, of course, so I've got to start a new one. But what I have got is a few— when you're doing something like this, you keep thinking of other ideas and other things that you could put in. So I've got all these fragments of things which could have been in the first two but weren't. So they're kind of— they're kind of sup— it's a supplement. It'll be a supplement. Um, so I've got, uh, I've got the lost gay episode of, of Hancock's Half Hour, for example, uh, the old radio show. Um, I've got one set during the war in on Clapham Junction station during a blackout as well. Um, I've got, uh, what was it? What's the other one I had the idea for? I've got one set in the Colony Club, which was a famous a drinking club of— in Soho in the early '50s, which involves painters, involves Francis Bacon and, uh, Lucian Freud and John Minton. So that'll be a famous one. So I'll do that one as well. Well, I'm looking forward to those. I kind of feel like it should be a Gay Century Volume 3, dipping in and out of the century. Yes, it will, it will. That's what— that's what it'll— that's what it'll be. Um, So I've got plenty of ideas there. The other thing I should say is they were all— because they are written in a kind of very free verse, they were actually written to be set to music as well. Yeah. And they have been set to music by a composer friend of mine called Robert Ely, who set 14 out of the 17, which is an incredible achievement. I mean, if they were played consecutively, end to end, the whole thing would last longer than the Ring Cycle. It would be about 20, 20 hours worth of music. Um, and it does state at the beginning, it states that, you know, the setting, the instruments that should be used and whatnot. So yeah, it's all in there. Well, I can tell you, I can tell you we're actually going to be performing one this year as well, in, in September, at a thing called the Tête-à-Tête Opera Festival, which, uh, is in London., at the Cockpit Theatre, uh, uh, opening 4th of September. So I'm very, very pleased with that, to have, to have that happening. Is that going to be, um, through the theatre company homospromos.org? Yes, it is. Yes, it is. We will, we will be putting it on. I'm writing the application to the Arts Council even now, um, so, so that is what we're doing at the moment. Yes, that's brilliant. Well, uh, thank you so much for joining us on Get Boxed thoroughly enjoyed chatting to you, and I think we need to make sure that we reserve a lot more time for when we talk about A Gay Century Volume 3: Dipping In and Out of History, which I've just decided to completely state that's what it's going to be called. But Volume 2 was so much fun. I haven't managed to read Volume 1, but I'm pretty certain it's going to be just as much fun. So everybody should go out and buy it. Good. Yes, everybody should go out and buy it. Definitely. It's on Amazon. It's, it's, it's, it's up there. It's also on the Homo Promo's website if you want to know more about our company, and you can also get copies of the book there. It's homopromos.org. Very simple to remember. It is indeed, and I'm sure our listeners will pop over there now. I'll make sure that I put up various bits and pieces on the social media as well, so anybody that's listening— oh, thank you, Hazel. Nice. Lovely. When you get to my age, social media is a bit of a mystery, to be honest. It feels like a little bit of a mystery to me as well. It's in— as soon as you gather the information about a particular platform, it all just gets thrown up in the air and you're supposed to learn something else, or another platform comes on and then the kids just make out that you're some sort of dinosaur. So do you have kids, Hazel? I do, I've got a couple of them. I'm collecting them. And there you have my sympathy. The thing is, I'm a glutton for punishment because I have a beagle as well, so everybody just looks at me with complete disdain. I'll take the beagle, thank you. I quite often do and just leave the kids somewhere else. Um, thank you so much for joining us, Peter, on Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station and Best of Luck with the book sales. Thank you very much indeed. Lovely to talk to you, quite delightful. Hello, this is Peter Scott-Presland, and I'm reading 3 little bits out of my new book, A Gay Century Volume 2. The first bit is taken from the play which is set in 1984. I say play because these are basically short stories written in dialogue form. So This one is about the AIDS crisis in 1984, written from the point of view of how it felt at the time for anybody in the gay community who was really under attack. It was a dreadful, vile time. It's set in a future in which people who have been diagnosed with HIV are sent off to the Isle of Man, and there is a kind of Big Brother who is rounding up people who are gay, HIV positive, thought to be HIV positive, friends of people who are HIV positive, hiding them from the police who are taking them off to quarantine. At this point, a man is holding the hand of his lover who's died and just talking to him, whispering to him, paying his last respects. Well, we did it, mate. Got you to the end and nobody found out. Maybe we were lucky we didn't realize till late you had the plague. Two months, two short months to live with you dying. I'm so glad I stayed with you. I'm so glad I shared with you. I never knew how much I loved you until I knew it could not last. Holding you in my arms, listening to your rasp of breath. You weighed nothing when I carried you to the loo, turned you over in the bed, washed your bedsores, wiped your ass, changed the sheets. When you were in pain, I massaged you with oils— tea tree for the skin, emu oil for your poor joints. You were in so much pain and all we had was aspirin. At first I wanted you to seek some treatment, but no, you said, dying is private. There is no cure, there is no real help, and this is just between us. And you were right. I only wish that you had let me kiss you. Lying there beside you at the end, you didn't fight. You said yes to death as you said yes to life. You thought of Krishna, Lord of both. And when the time was ripe, you were ready to unloose the chains and go. You taught me how to die. You taught me how to live. Now give me the strength to bury you. The undertakers will not touch you for fear that they will catch it. They'll cremate you on your own at the end of the day in case you spread disease to other corpses. There's the voice of Big Brother then. We'll take care of that. You're not strong enough. You don't know what to do. Hello, is there a bin lorry in Islington? Another stiff on the Hemingford Estate. Jerry is not a stiff. He was a person, is a person still living in my mind. Treat him with respect. Make sure he's buried in consecrated ground. That will not be happening. Cremation only and covering with quicklime after in a communal pit. There are too many now. But he must have consecrated ground. He was a priest. This is from a little story, uh, set in 1973 called Autumn, and it's about two members of the Gay Liberation Front and their encounter with a much more traditional kind of almost stereotypical homosexual. Think Quentin Crisp or Douglas Bing or somebody like that. And they come around his flat. They've discovered him as squalor after a career of great fame and fortune, and he's about to be evicted, uh, and they're pondering whether to, uh, let him come and live in their squat, which is the disused post office. And one of them is in favor and one of them isn't. Uh, Penny Dreadful is the radical camp one, and Walter is a serious Marxist activist. Penny says there are lots of drugs in the squats. Walter thinks you wouldn't approve. Oh, drugs, that takes me back. Cocaine in the '20s. I used to go to dinner parties where Lady Diana Cooper served cocaine in salt cellars, one at each end of the table. No. Oh yes, everybody used it then. Queen Victoria, I believe, was very fond of it. No. I was introduced to it on the Western Front by Siegfried Sassoon before the Battle of the Somme. He had it sent from Harrods by his brother. A welcome present to friends on the front. I remember there was morphine in the kit as well, and a syringe. Of course cocaine's a godsend as an orgy. Greatly enhances the prowess. Barbara Cartland gave the most marvellous parties— orgies in all but name. Full of naked men and dope. Iver and Noel came often. Iver Novello. Before your time. And Noel Coward. He died some months ago. We sent each other cards for 40 years at Christmas time. I always wrote 'Happy Birthday to you' on his. Noel? Christmas? I used to call him the First Noel. And of course he was. Incomparable. Walter says uptight closet queen, a reactionary and a bigot. Noel never concerned himself with politics. He was an artist. A reactionary hack. Maids in uniform, French windows, anyone for tennis. Artists are neither right nor left. Artists are above. Well, I think you ought to go. Oh, don't you? Goodbye, Mr Dreadful. Goodbye, Mr Craig. You must be going. And he's left alone. What can I do? Have I the strength left to fight? Every day it gets more difficult to be Valentine De Vere. The stairs get steeper, the shops recede into the distance, the legs get weaker. He fondly strokes his gramophone. Might be worth some money. This is the store of all my reputation. My talent, my memories, my money, my life. No, I will not fade or go without a fight. While there is breath in me, a door to lock, a key to turn, I will stand as long as I can stand. I will stand here, the candles will blaze before it gutters and splutters and fades to nothing. Here I have lived, here I will die. Hmm, not bad, not bad. Bad. The local press will love it. This reading is from 1999, Skin Deep, and it's set at the Admiral Duncan bombing. I don't know if people remember, it's 25 years ago now, but there were 3 bombs in London, one at a mosque, one at a black market in Brixton, and one at the Admiral Duncan gay pub in which 4 people were were killed, and it was a very traumatic moment for our community when we thought we'd won so much, and suddenly there was this shocking attack. And the character speaking here is called Queenie, is a barman at the Admiral Duncan, um, based on a real barman who survived that and was an incredible comfort and support to people who were caught in the bombing and hospitalized and so on. But then himself was killed in a queer bashy attack about 4 or 5 years later, and he's coming back as a ghost to one of the people who's been hideously disfigured in the bombing and is really giving up on life. And Queenie says, let me tell you something. The week after it happened, the bombing, you know, we'd got the rubble all cleared up, the windows were back in, but we hadn't done the painting. And we hadn't any stools. Anyway, it was just before we opened, there was a ringing on the bell. I thought it must be post, we'd had that many cards. So I answered it and there were these 3 Asian lads standing on the step. I hate to say it, but my first thought was, here comes trouble, it's happening again. So I went to shut the door, but this lad holds out his hand, he's got this most ginormous card, and he says, 'We wanted you to know we're also very sorry. We live in Brick Lane, we use East London Mosque, we know what it feels like.' And one of the lads, handsome lad he was, held out his arm to show me the scar. Well, I cracked up, cried me eyes out. These lads, well, they don't like gays where they come from, do they? But here they were. We'd all been through it. Of course I asked them in and made a cup of tea. That's what kept me going through the months after. The memory of their kindness. What we'd all been through together. Right, next up on the show we have Hasti Saleh, who is going to be talking to us about her book Dahlia and Charis, which was published on the 19th of March of this year. Dahlia and Charis tells the intriguing story of forbidden love and a woman's heartbreaking struggle to reconcile her fragmented cultural and gender identities despite family dynamics and wants. Dalia finds herself plagued with flashbacks of not intervening in her school friend Yasmin's kidnapping by ISIS in Iraq. Back in London, her brother Elias is showing perilous signs of affiliation with terrorists. All the while, Dalia is slowly opening up to a captivating new presence in London, Charis. She begins to find solace in their relationship of love and trust. Yet Dalia feels that she cannot truly move on with her life until she returns to Iraq, the place wrought with guilt. Will Charis join her on this dangerous journey to find Yasmin? Life is often about what-ifs, and there's no guaranteed way of knowing if one path was better than another. But for our own sanity, we sometimes need to explore those choices and reconcile with them, even if it's just for our own mental health. Such a prominent issue in today's world. Nasti, thank you so much for joining us on Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station. Congratulations on the book. Thank you. Now, can you tell our listeners a little bit about— I mean, I've given a very vague description of the book, And I must say, you seem to be selling out everywhere, so if people can't find the book, they need to make sure that they keep on coming back and do struggle on with it. They will get hold of a copy. Can you tell us a little bit more about the book and the motivations behind writing Dahlia and Charis? Yes, yes. Well, you've told us about, you know, the book in general. The motivation behind it was I was working as a GP in our practice in East London, and I used to go to the library next door in my break. And I was looking around at the books on the shelves, and a lot of them were conventional stories— boy meets girl, woman meets man— and I thought, hmm, this is the pandemic, let me get a bit imaginative and think of something non-conforming and do a story about that.. And I've been toying with the idea for a long time anyway. It was the pandemic, and I thought, let's go for it. So the motivation was this library, my own experiences, and I realized that there was the growing thirst in society for non-conventional stories, and especially sexually non-conformist and cultural struggles which I saw in my practice all the time when young people came in and used to talk about their struggles culturally with their parents, etc. So having delved into these unconventional and non-conforming ways of loving and living in this era of equality and diversity, I was hoping that readers when they read the book would reevaluate their morals and prejudices and, um, see how people who weren't maybe, um, thinking in the ways that the reader was, how these people actually lived. And wow, yeah, and you covered so much in the book as well. And I must say, I'm a huge non-conformist, so anybody that kind of goes down that route is aces in my book. But there was so much in this book to take in, and Luckily, I had it in paperback form, so I could— I didn't have it so easily accessible to just Google all the information that I was absorbing in Dalia and Charis. I mean, it's very— it's got quite a political edge to it as well as a cultural. Yeah. Oh, that really proves that you've read the novel because a lot of people think— a lot of people think it's just a romance or it's a thriller. But yes, these political issues are there, and I've always wanted to write about that. The political issues, my heritage, the Kurdish heritage. You know, we're a nation without a country, and we were a colony of Britain's. The struggles in Iraq with Saddam Hussein. I certainly wouldn't have written this novel if Saddam Hussein were alive. So, I did think about it well. You know, some of my friends did say, well, how could you write about that now? And what about ISIS? And you were Googling ISIS. I said, well, yes, I did. I said, I'm hoping that they are not as strong as they were. And we had a good laugh with one of my friends about this. We went out for lunch and she was saying, you know, ISIS. I actually, when I was Googling ISIS once, doing my research, I wrote in how to write a novel. So I thought whoever's looking at it will see that I am actually Googling it just also to do research for my novel. So the political, um, tension— so people are actually wanting to go down the terrorism route if they just make out that they're writing a book, then, um, this is the thing, I've come across so many authors who've had to Google the most bizarre thing that if anybody wanted in the CIA or some sort of secret service wanted to Google what they were up to, they would be horrified, you know. Murderous themes and terrorist plots. And as you say, ISIS, it's, it's quite problematic, but sometimes we have to do hard things to help people have a better understanding of the world. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Better understanding of the world. And obviously in the book, I wanted to show the character arcs of two protagonists. So they're Dalia and Charis. Dalia is the BBC correspondent. And Charis is the A&E doctor, and their external goals, how they change to internal goals, and by the end of the book, have they achieved, you know, have they achieved gaining their internal goals? So there's quite a lot to think about in this book, and I was at some stage, I thought, is the canvas too vast? Am I trying to paint a picture with too many colors in it? Because I think you're not the only one. Someone else is saying there's so much in there, I have to read it slowly. And I said yes. I think there is a lot in there, but I think if you excluded much out of it, the story wouldn't have been whole. True, you need a backdrop to a story. So, um, I, I thought I, I needed to put down the grief that, that, you know, befell Iraq, uh, after the invasion in 2003. And myself being of Kurdish heritage, I needed to put that in somehow. And I was happy that I did actually, because some people didn't know, very young people don't know what happened in 2003, the repercussions, etc. And I just loved writing the novel. It was so enjoyable. It was— pretty cathartic as well. And I knew that. Yeah. So I'm quite intrigued because it takes a lot of work to write a book. Now, you're a GP, aren't you? Yes. How did you find the time? Yes, that's a good question. As I said, in my lunch breaks, I would go to the library next door and I would switch off from the evidence-based medicine where everything you have to prove is present, into the imaginative world. And so, it was in my breaks, and I'd obviously done some work before the pandemic. I had some seeds, some thoughts. And so, it was a lot of editing that I did. And then, towards the end, I thought, I need to take a break from all this GP work. I can't, you know, write this novel. There's so much in it. I need to have a bit of time out. So I decided to, you know, go down on work and do locums. And I must say, in the past few months, I managed to then bring the book out because— or have it published because I finally had the time, I had the headspace myself to do it. And, you know, to worry about my protagonists as well as other patients, you know. So as you said, it was a cathartic process, but I think we do need to find in our busy worlds, no matter what our jobs are, a way of switching off and finding something that kind of resets our hectic brains. And I love it that the way that you found that was to write such an intricate knowledge that with such politicism and cultural differences, and yet managed to make it a love story of sorts as well. I think it's a fantastic accomplishment. You must be really proud of yourself, and I know for a fact that your daughter is. Yes, my daughter. Well, my daughter is of a different generation, obviously. For her, the problems that I had thinking about, wow, what will people think when this novel comes out, for her it was not a problem at all. And all of her young friends, you know, they are fine with these differences in, these cultural differences, sexual differences. They're all on some kind of, on, on the spectrum somewhere. And in fact, my daughter knows more about it than me, which is astonishing. But, um, yes, she was delighted, and she says, oh, you must continue. And, um, are you talking about the mental well-being? Obviously, yes, it is very good if you're creative, no matter whether it's writing, painting, journaling, journaling, singing, or connecting with friends. It's always good for your mental health and because, you know, in my job, um, I saw a lot of patients with mental health problems, especially during the pandemic. I just thought this is a wonderful way for, for them to, uh, explore well-being. And I think that's so important. I do actually love to ask my guests here on Get Booked for 3 top tips on mental well-being, and I'm intrigued to find out what your 3 tips would be. Okay, so, um, well, first of all, it's, uh, physical health, uh, you know, and sleep hygiene. So, um, uh, I, I would just make sure that, um, you know, there's, um, physical health and that there's enough vitamin D. For example, go out in nature, get some vitamin D, from sunshine if there's any. And I think anyone who takes vitamin D in the winter months is the right person. So I'm a, you know, I'm really behind that because otherwise you feel tired, you feel lethargic. So nature, going out. The other thing I've mentioned a while ago is creativity. Be creative, find out what you love doing. If it's singing, if it's painting, if it's writing, journaling, or just connecting with friends. And the last thing I'd say is gratitude and kindness. If you're kind to other people, you're actually benefiting yourself. So being kind to others makes people happier. Little acts of kindness. So those are my top 3 tips. I love those. I think they're absolutely fantastic. And I think as we come out of winter and people can actually get out in nature, this, I think there's been quite a a lot of issues with people over the last few months because Great Britain doesn't do very well at coming out of spring at the best of times, but we've really struggled in 2023, and people have struggled to go out there because it's just been so miserable. And I think we're going to see quite an immediate surge of people just brightening up and feeling better because they can get out in nature. It is so helpful. Hopefully the sun's going to start coming through a little bit more frequently. And yeah, we do need to know what it is that works for us, what snaps us out of a sort of, sort of reverie, or what is it that makes us just feel happy within ourselves. If we, if we know what that is, it's the best tool we can have for our mental health. So thank you so much, Hasti, and thank you so much for chatting to us here on Get Booked. Go and buy the book, Dali and Charis. And where can people find out a little bit more about you? About me? Well, just go on the internet and Google me, Hasti Salih. And, um, yeah, I think I'll have to open up a web page. I'm waiting for my daughter to come back and help me with that. Come on, daughter. Uh, thank you so much. And also, you're on Instagram as well at Hasti Salih, which is H-A-S-T-I-S-A-L-I-H. And you can pop onto Amazon. And I must stress, all you wonderful listeners, read the book and write a review. It's so important for all our emerging authors out there. And thank you so much, Hasti, for joining us and Getbooks. Thank you so much, Hazel. You're very, very welcome, and I look forward to hearing about the next book that is due. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Bye. Nurses and one of her colleagues were running in the direction of the patients coming in from a road traffic accident. Charis raced towards one of the trolleys, almost knocking down some contorted tubes of a breathing mask. How calm it had been with Dalia. She would have loved to savour the encounter for longer, especially the meaningful glances, but now it was back to chaos and noisiness. She was intercepted by a large man with a ruddy face. He ran his fingers through his dishevelled hair and shouted, 'I've been here for 3 hours and still haven't had an X-ray of my foot.' Kharis recoiled and, trying to sound authoritative, said, 'We've had a road traffic accident. They're very busy, sir. The triage nurse hasn't classified your foot as an emergency. Shit, she hated being polite with aggressive patients but didn't feel like responding to a malicious letter of complaint. She tried moving to the side of the patient. He raised his voice and flung the x-ray form in his hand at Carys. It fell to the ground. She left it there, biting her lip. She was a professional. And had to keep calm. "You bitch! I pay your wages. I'm a taxpayer and it's my right to be seen. I'm supposed to be dealt with within 4 hours." His nostrils flared up. "You'll be hearing from me, mark my words, and remember my name: Thornton." Charis smelt the patient's stale breath, which was almost as toxic as his words. She had he had dealt with spinal injuries, heart attacks, collapsed lungs, and asthma attacks that morning. The patients had been grateful until now. Mr. Thornton's attention turned towards the male nurse who came to Kara's aid and tried to intervene. If you hadn't been drinking tea and eating biscuits with your Filipino nurses, I would have been seen by now. She felt the colour rise to her cheeks as she took a second deep breath. There was so much to be worried about, like global warming and artificial intelligence, and yet people were preoccupied with immigration and Brexit. When would this end? Carys looked Mr. Thornton in the eye. He was waiting for an answer. Mr. Thornton, there's no need 'You don't need to be rude. We're all doing our best.' She raised her voice to match his. 'I read your notes. You bumped your foot 3 days ago. You could have consulted your GP and got the X-ray form there.' His neck appeared to expand with every word she uttered. It wouldn't be easy to strangle him, she thought wistfully. But no, every medical student was taught to be level-headed and professional. First, do no harm. That's what she kept telling herself. The patient glared at her. Bloody GPs, you can never get an appointment with them, the phone lines are always engaged and the receptionists are downright rude. Mr. Thornton raised his arm to hit her. She backed away, almost stumbling. Dahlia, who had been following Karis, stepped forward to shield her. The patient and ended up hitting her right arm, which elicited a sharp cry from Dalia. Charis drew Dalia backwards. "Security!" she shouted and glanced at Dalia, who looked distraught. She should never have allowed this journalist into A&E. Dalia reminded her of a silver birch tree that would snap if a hurricane pushed it. Dahlia would most probably not write anything favourable about the department. Furthermore, Carys had not asked her consultant if he would agree to a journalist setting foot in their department. Why had she made such a rash decision? She shuddered and hoped her actions wouldn't be followed by drastic repercussions from the hospital managers. She needed a break. Mr. Thornton shook himself free from the security officer and hobbled towards the door hissing, "You will hear from my local councillor. I'm lodging a complaint. Lazy bitches like you don't deserve to be registered with the NHS." He turned to look at Dalia who had tears running down her ashen face whilst she was stroking her wrist. "And who's this sidekick of yours? I only want to be served by an English doctor." Doctor or nurse. He shuffled away, enraged and triumphant at the same time. Charis frowned and turned her attention to Dalia, who was squeezing her upper arm, trying to alleviate her pain. Are you okay? Let me have a look at your arm. She gave her a tissue to wipe her tears. Dalia looked up at her anxiously. Don't look at my arm, please. I'll be fine. Karis looked at her mystified. "You're clearly in pain. Wait a minute." She shouldn't have brought this vulnerable reporter here, and yet she felt elated that someone she had just met has instinctively sacrificed her well-being by joining in the fight with Mr. Thornton. Dahlia's head was bowed. Karis needed to focus on her professional duties, or what was left of them. She sighed. I need to file a report on this incident. It may be used in court. She put her arm around Dahlia and moved to a more secluded area where a computer could be used to implement this and recorded the details of the altercation with Mr. Thornton. Dahlia touched Kara's hand lightly. You work so hard. I can't I can't believe people can be so ungrateful. The warmth in Dalia's hand. Charis held it for a few seconds. It felt light and strengthening at the same time. She shook her head. We're ridiculously short-staffed. I don't know how we can make this job more appealing for future students to join us. We also need more places in medical colleges. She jotted down some more lines in Mr. Thornton's file and apologised to Gabriel, the young Filipino nurse who had run towards her during the argument. He had been working extra shifts to raise money for his family in the Philippines. It was financial necessity and loyalty to his family which kept him in London. Loyalty, what a lovely word, Charis said. Karis frowned. "Don't these patients get punished for their abusive behaviour?" Dahli asked cautiously. "We do have a zero tolerance approach to verbal and physical abuse, but even when our security guard escorts them out, they come back after a while." Karis watched Mr. Thornton hobbling away towards the exit with a security guard. Her husband Phil would have lost lost his temper by now. His work on the geriatric ward was easier as his patients were more docile. Lucky Phil. She had often discussed their frustrations about NHS money spent on the epidemic of compensation claims by patients. This was even though medicine had advanced in the last few decades. How paradoxical, she thought angrily. 'Why is there such a shortage of doctors and nurses? Where have they gone?' she heard Dalia ask. 'Australia, Abu Dhabi, Canada,' Kharis sighed and continued in a lighter tone, 'where the weather is sunny and they can go surfing.' Then she extended her arm to Dalia and added, 'Now let me look at your arm.' Dalia put her arms behind her back. Karis put her arm down quickly. Why was she thinking of the squirrels she had been feeding in St. James's Park recently? She looked into Dahlia's dark brown eyes, as dense as woodland. Dahlia was hiding something, and it wasn't just her arms. She couldn't help shaking her head. She wasn't Dahlia's doctor, and Dahlia was not her patient. Whatever the relationship relationship was, precarious or not, she couldn't help reaching out to her. And that, my lovelies, is a wrap for today's Get Booked. We've heard from Peter Scott-Presland chatting to me about his latest book, A Gay Century Volume 2. Volume 2 sees 7 more supposedly unreliable vignettes of gay and lesbian life. Taking a moment in history when the likelihood of the gay element or even relevance has been suppressed, and in these vignettes or playlets, it is brought to the fore in a deliciously camp, funny, ridiculous, and yet possibly not too far away from the truth depiction of historical events. Peter is the founder-director of Homo's Promos at Homo's Promos .org and has written much of its material. We also then have just heard from Hasti Salih with her book Dahlia and Charis, which was published on March 19th, 2023. Thank you so much to both of them for taking their time to chat to us on Women's and Men's Radio Station. I do love chatting to all these authors and thank you so much for all the support you give by listening in to Get Booked. As ever, if you do give the books a whirl, give them a review on Amazon because it really is quite helpful for all our emerging authors out there. And please do listen to our previous shows. You can pop on to womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked, and you can pop on to our SoundCloud and listen to all the many other incredible shows that Women's Radio Station and Men's Radio Station do produce. And if you want to find out about some more books that maybe you can sink your teeth into, pop onto hazelbutterfield.com and there's lashings of reviews on there. And please do give me a follow on Instagram at @getbookedwrs or on my personal one which is @nuttybatty10. Thank you again for listening, and tune in next week. As ever, every day of the week at 5 PM on Women's Radio Station and every Tuesday at 4 PM on Men's Radio Station. Enjoy the rest of your day.
