Hello, this is Eva May, and I'm speaking to you from the Women's Radio Station for another in my Healing Image High series. So Healing Image High was a project that I did, uh, for myself, uh, to get some help with, um, living with anxiety, trauma, PTSD, and dissociative identity disorder. Initially, I went to fashion and beauty professionals for some help with my image, which got me out and about. It got me feeling a lot better about myself, and it was something that I could actually do and see results fairly quickly. I then went through a period of time in my life where going sort of outside for any length of time was just too— felt too overwhelming. And about 7 years ago, I actually couldn't go on a trip, a holiday planned with my family because my anxiety was too high about going, going away. I stayed at home and family went, and I gave myself an extremely big talking to that this was not a way to spend my life, to live for myself, nor for my family or my friends. And it wasn't the future that I wanted. I then hit the internet and started looking at things that I could go to on my own and try and do something positive. I looked at spa breaks. Well, they sort of involved massages and facials and things like that that would involve people touching my, my skin and coming quite close to me physically, which I wasn't comfortable with and I didn't really think I could take that forward, anything that I'd learned from a spa break. And from what I could see, people tended to go with another person. So I needed somewhere where it was just me. I then had something in my head that I'd obviously read previously about a bootcamp called GI Jane. So I Googled GI Jane bootcamp and, uh, came up and it gave me the information about it being just all for women. It was, um, not too far away. The drive was doable for me— would be difficult because I, I wasn't great at driving distances— and they had a camp starting the next day. So I contacted them and they, they had a place, so I then threw everything into the car that was on the kit list. I quite like traveling in car because you haven't got to worry about weight or necessarily unpacking. Anything you need can be left in the boot and grabbed later. And I, I then embarked on my, my first boot camp experience, which I have to say has been one of the most life-changing and pretty permanent positive changes to, to my life, not just for going out and about and getting outside into the countryside, but for meeting people and learning new skills and achieving. So I got a call from my family a couple of days later saying, please come out and join us on holiday. And my answer was, well, I can't actually because I'm in Kent and I'm on a boot camp for here for a whole week. So I will see you when I get back. I loved the camp. I did things that I didn't even know. I had no idea really what we were going to do. There were things there that I actually really didn't think I was physically going to be able to achieve, but I did. Being provided with healthy meals and snacks was something that I also found, uh, really beneficial, that I didn't actually have to think or do anything like that for myself. That was taken care of. So it was just focusing on the bootcamp and on myself. Then, um, I also lost some weight. So, um, I hadn't actually really thought about that when I went, but, um, I felt really, really good, like inside and outside, although obviously didn't wear any makeup or anything for boot camp. And I also slept extremely well. So physically and mentally, I've had to learn a lot, take a lot in, remember, and it was just extremely good for me. And I now go every single year for at least a week. I think last year I did 2 weeks, but I'm looking forward already to my next camp, which will be in April. So I'd like to introduce my guest today, which— who is Sharon Smith, who's actually the founder of GI Jane Boot Camp and who's somebody who's extremely interesting and I'd like to ask you, Sharon, well, to say hello and thank you very much for being here today. Hi, Eva. Hi. And also, can you talk a little bit about how you started the history behind GI Jane? Okay. Well, I first went to a boot camp with my sister Mandy in April 2008. And I absolutely loved the concept of it. My sister had been in the Priory for addiction issues. She came out of the Priory, she still wasn't back to the old Mandy, but she was getting there. And I noticed an advert for a boot camp, so we went on this boot camp and the change in my sister was absolutely amazing. And that's where I got the connection between mental health and physical exercise. And then we went home, and at the time my mum was looking after Mandy's dogs. And as she walked in, my mum was just astounded and she was like, oh my God, I've got my daughter back. That look of madness has gone from her eyes. And it really had. It really, really worked. So that's when I decided that this was something that I really, really wanted to get involved in, and I set up GI Jane Boot Camp. Well, I'm really glad you did that. I'm— I think saying that, how you could link sort of mental treatment with them, um, and physical treatment to exercise as well. So, so going on the camp, it was like doing sort of exercise and the challenges that really helped Mandy, do you think that's because it's something that you, you don't necessarily do in your sort of everyday life, and to have something that's really challenging and that you achieve in a different area? And she's obviously followed her program for addiction, but to, to give— put something almost in, not replace it, but to add in something new that you've achieved. Make you to see that difference. I mean, that's just for your— her mum to see in her eyes the change. And you went for a week. Yeah, it was, it was for a week. And the difference in her was, was truly unbelievable. We'd always, we'd always been like, we'd always loved exercise. We joined— I mean, I was a member of a gym at 14 because my mum was always into fitness and exercise. So there'd always been a love of exercise. But never to the extreme of doing sort of 8 hours a day of exercise, which is what, what you take on a boot camp. Yeah. Um, and obviously it is— everyone that attends a boot camp is completely out of their comfort zone, no matter how fit they think they are. It is, it is a completely unique experience where you are doing that much exercise every day, but it clears your mind. It really clears your mind. Yeah, definitely. I would agree with that, even no matter what I mean, you're out, well, pretty much you're outside nearly all the time. There might be the odd session inside, but I think being outside, I mean, what did Mandy find? Could she sort of name what she found beneficial when she went with you to Wales? For her, it was probably the sense of achievement as well. I mean, it's such a massive sense of achievement. Like, every day you achieve something different that you didn't think you'd be able to do. You know, like you might be on a 3-mile run, which you would think was completely impossible, but you would, you would do that. I mean, you would— every day would be a new challenge, a new achievement. And when you feel, when you feel good about achieving something, you feel good about yourself. Yeah, definitely. You know, it's like when you look good, you feel good. When you feel good, you look good. It's, it's kind of all combined. And you, did you find as well the support from the other people on the camp as well to, you know, getting each other through all these challenges that you're really not going to— it's difficult. I didn't really know what I was going to, so you can't really envisage what a boot camp means other than outside and involving some sort of mud is what I sort of thought. The, the other good— I mean, we, we on that boot camp in 2008, we made friends. That are still friends today and that will be friends throughout our entire lives. Because that is a beauty, especially on women-only boot camps. You bond so quickly with all the other women that when friendships are formed, they are genuine friendships, because only you have experienced that experience. No one else outside that camp has had the same experience as what you've had. Oh God, I absolutely agree with that. I mean, I, I took myself on my, my own and It's quite nice, uh, you arrive there. I mean, where you, where you hold the camps in Kent, it's a, a beautiful setting. You, you feel like you're away, properly away in, in the country, in the physical environment. And to walk through the door and just to meet new people— we're all— everyone's in the same boat, no matter where you've come from. Or what was going on in your life, you walk through that door and you are going to be doing the same thing for the time you're there, whether it's a taster day, a weekend, a midweek, week, two weeks, whatever you've got. You know, you're going to be using the, you know, the bathrooms. You've got a nice— everyone's got a bed. You've got, you've got to— you're told what time you're going to turn up for your next session, although you do not know what's going to be in that. You get told sort of what to wear that's appropriate. And then you're all sitting around a table eating together. It's, you know, we've all got the same food and it's a great leveler. You're starting, all starting from the same place, even though, you know, I came with things that I was hoping that would help improve my life. I mean, I never dreamt that I'd get the result that I got as well as friends. But I think, I don't think there's many places that you could go where you do that. And we literally don't really interact with anybody else other than the people who are with you. Yeah. What I always think is as well with people, like when you're mixing different social circuits, so because we've all got an act, we act a certain way with our family, we act another way with certain friends. Yeah. Whereas at GI Jane, I always think you leave that act at the door because you're not there to impress anybody. You don't have to pretend to be something that you're not. You can just be you. Yeah. And some people, that is so liberating not to have to pretend to be this person that they're not. No, I'm not totally— when I came, I didn't feel any pressure. I mean, your trainers, I think we should say the trainers that you, you use at GI Jane, they're all either serving military personnel or ex-military. Yeah. And You also— that there are 2 trainers for every camp, and the maximum number of women who are there joining in is 14. So you've got like, the ratio is, you know, fantastic. And those guys, well, and girls who are the trainers are so good at sort of differentiating so that everybody can achieve, whether it's individually, or there are some things that we do, you know, in pairs or in a team. And when you really think you're just not going to be able to do it, and then the support of these people that you never knew before can get you through probably one of the hardest challenges that you've ever done in your life. And I mean, every year I go, I'm getting a year older, and I still find that You know, without that sort of people really behind you and genuinely, you know, wanting to help even is incredible. Like that you do achieve and supporting other people. I mean, I really get quite emotional when I see people, you know, really struggling and then with the support, can get through and watch them blossom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you do, definitely. I mean, we're really, really lucky with our trainers. They're all— they're so loyal. I mean, I've had the same— some of my trainers have been with me since day one, um, and obviously they bring on other trainers, um, but I, I do honestly believe that our physical training instructors in the Armed Forces are probably the best in the world. Because they train our guys to go out and fight wars and all the rest of it. So to get them to come to us is a real privilege. Yeah, I have huge, huge respect for— yeah, their knowledge, their knowledge is, is absolutely amazing. Like, and, and that they get the physical and the mental aspect of it, you know. Obviously the physical aspect is a big part, but also they understand the mental aspect of it and, and they relay that to the women that come to the camps, and they give them the belief that they can do it. Anything is achievable. Yeah, and the encouragement that you get from them as well. And, and these, you know, by the nature of their job, they have seen some, some sort of pretty— been in traumatic situations themselves. At that level, they completely understand Everyday things that can affect people and how to try and support people to get over that. And I think that's really important when we do get on the first day, a one-on-one with the trainers. So there are any issues that you want to talk about or you can bring up with them and they're aware and will give you that little bit of support. So not everybody needs to know what those are, but if you say to the trainers, then They definitely do help you in those areas. I think it's great that you feel that you've been heard. Every morning we have the morning walk. Just walking next to them and having a chat for 5 or 10 minutes about things, their sort of— what they do, what you do, and then other women speaking to everybody. I think you get so much even just from something as a, as a morning walk and getting to know people. In fact, I feel I know people there a lot better than I've known people who I've known for years and years and years. Yeah, in my home life. Because on those morning walks, that's, that, that's the time when girls get to chat to each other, to, you know, to share their stories. And it's amazing what women will share. With other women that they may have only known for 5 minutes, really. Okay. But they feel that comfortable that they can share aspects of their lives that they may never have even shared before. Yeah, so I really agree with that. Just, um, I don't know, just it feels— it just feels okay to say it, and they're not going to like ignore you for the rest of the week because you've said something about yourself or Um, I mean, I mean, you have people coming, Sharon, from not just the UK. I mean, they come from Europe, they come from the States. And there was one, I think it was my second camp, where somebody came and she'd just flown over from, from the States to come. Yeah, we've had clients from Australia and New Zealand as well. Really? Well, the one from America was like, I was feeling a bit tired and I thought Hang on a minute, you cannot feel tired. You will be doing this to your max because someone has come over from America and they've got jet lag and they are pushing through on this. So, um, I think there's always something that makes you feel like, I want to do it. Or, um, because I— coming to, to a boot camp, I mean, how did you So structure, what exercises to include, where did you get that sort of format from? Because there's such a good mix of sort of whether it's physical with like running or weights or sprinting or doing some team assault sort of coursework. I mean, I never knew, and I probably would never have known before I came to GI Jane, that I can actually Commando crawl under a net quite well, or bear crawl, or bear crawl. Yeah. Or get quite competitive at the age of 56, play basketball, you know, it's, um, or laugh. I mean, I've, I think one camp I can remember in particular that I don't think I've laughed so much, you know, in that time. I probably lost more calories laughing actually than, than I did doing the exercise. It It was just the best feeling to be sharing all those like moments with everybody. And, but we still, we still don't lose focus of what we're actually gonna do and gonna achieve. I mean, even to the point when we have quiz night and I never win the quiz, 'cause my knowledge on things like that is not very good. But I'm always secretly quite pleased that I didn't win because they get a square of chocolate. And to me, that could put— that's calories. I've come there not to have the calories, so if I don't get the chocolate, that's fine by me. But I mean, you know, the whole— how did you get that format of the amount of exercise, the level of exercise, and then also the nutrition, which is an extremely important part of, you know, you do need to have some energy to get through A whole day. Yeah, I mean, when we first started, I mean, it was a lot more intense. We used to start at 5:30 in the morning. Really? Yeah, and go on till 5 o'clock at night. And then we realized you didn't need to— it didn't need to be— half 5 is too early because girls were getting tired, injured, that kind of stuff. So we, like, we relooked at it and we cut it back. So they start 7 now. But the camp's all designed to push you both physically and mentally. You know, people can be very capable physically but maybe not so mentally. As in, when we do a stretcher run where the stretcher's loaded and it's teamwork taking the stretcher from one place to the other, well, for a lot of girls mentally that's very, very challenging. But at the end it's completed and they realize that mentally they are capable of great things. Yeah, the stretcher thing is— I mean, when we go out on sessions like that, we could be out, you know, in the countryside, and we do get spotted by people. Yeah, members of the public. But I suppose they're quite used to that now. And it is— it can get incredibly heavy. You've got people of different heights as well, which when you're trying to change and rotate to keep your stretcher moving, and then you have to get it over a gate or something like that. And then, you know, you've got these huge stretches of countryside in front of you and all this equipment needs to get moved. And working together with people and, you know, everybody thinking, I think that that's what I found great was having to think. So in a way you don't have to think because you turn up and, and yeah, everything's done for you. Yeah, that's all done. They've done the thinking and prep, but when you're actually in it, you really do have to think and take on your sort of role and your responsibility and working all together as a team, which in my normal day-to-day life doesn't really happen. You wouldn't do that. No, I wouldn't do that. No, it's not there. But it's like when they— when, when clients first arrive and we have the initial fitness test, and it's— and the first thing is the triangle, which is 1.2 miles. It's a run. Yeah, it's not a triangle, it's got 4 sides. I swear it has 4 sides. So we call it— we call it a triangle. I know, it's called a square if you like, but we call it triangle. But like, the girls turn up, and even girls that have been before. The minute they get to that point where that triangle starts, fear builds up inside them. Oh yeah, definitely. And lots of women have got a mental block about, about that triangle because they just think it's impossible, I can't do this. But they can. And it doesn't matter if they walk, run around that triangle, as long as they get around it, they'll get around it. Yeah, we do. I mean, you're right. And actually, after all the years I've been coming to camp, when I, I know the triangle's coming, I get this kind of Uh-oh, feeling. Yeah, it's a fear inside you. Yeah, it is. I don't know why, but that's why people say to us like, what's the next session? And we say, we're not telling you what. Yeah, exactly. I think I really like that, that I actually don't know what the next session's going to be, because not every session is outside with stretches and running around with, you know, tires and things, because I mean, that's not really something that you can do when you get home, you know. You're not going to be running around your local town with a stretcher and a load of people. But you do also— there are sessions where, with, you know, kettlebell weights or those resistance bands, yeah, sessions with those that we can actually take a photograph of the routine on the whiteboard, and that is something that you can take home. Or not, you can— yeah, there's lots of stuff that you can implement into your everyday life. I mean, number one is nutrition side, like that, that's all about portion control and little and often. And there's lots and lots of exercises and workouts you can implement that you can do at home. Yeah, definitely. And I do actually do— I do do the kettlebell ones. I, you know, I mean, kettlebells come in various weights, so you don't have to go really, really heavy. But no, not at all. To be able to repeat that at home on your own and pick the weight that suits you, then, you know, quite quickly just repeating these exercises. I mean, that, you know, the It's not all about weight loss. No, definitely not. I don't think when I came that was the thing that I was thinking about at all. But I, you know, I did lose a few pounds, but I also lost inches because if you want to, you can be weighed and so measured. So you measure waist, hips, bust, around the arms and your legs. And it does just really prove how exercise can give you results. I mean, there's no way that anybody could do the intensity of a boot camp for weeks and weeks and weeks. It wouldn't really be— No, you'd be exhausted. It's not, it's not, it's not real life. No, it's not real life. And we're not a quick fix either, but we are a kickstart. Definitely, we are a kickstart to getting you into the— to get you into something, the right place in your life. Yes. And so, um, what would— well, your, your camps you do this year, you are running 24, um, camps in the UK. So they are a week long, but not everybody— you don't have to commit to a whole week, um, obviously work-life balance as well. So you can even just go for a taster day. The ladies aren't sure if it's for them, they come along, they do a taster day, and obviously then if they want to sign up for a weekend, a midweek, a week— I mean, some, I mean, lots of ladies do 2 weeks, you know, but they, they'll know by that taster day if they think it's for them. It just gives them a taste of it, really. I think the women that I've certainly been there with Taster Day, some of them have actually stayed from that Taster Day and, you know, done a couple of days. Yeah. And definitely want to come back. So you've got your 24 courses, camps in the UK, and they are all based in Kent. Yeah. And I must say It's a really, really nice place that you stay in, and surroundings are beautiful. It's lovely. The rooms are great, really comfortable. It's really warm. There's plenty of hot water. I always enjoy a real switch-off when I go. I sort of leave the internet world behind as much as possible and just concentrate on what I'm there for. And getting myself a really good night's sleep. Yeah, we really try and create a home from home, so when you arrive you feel comfortable straight away. Yeah, and it's a safe environment as well. It's a very safe environment to be in. Yeah, it is. It's, it's, it's lovely. It's like, it's just like living with a bit— with a family, really. And, um, yeah, I mean, going back every year and seeing you and Mandy and other people that, um, you know, cook for, for us and take care of us. And you also have— I've never been, but it looks like huge amounts of fun because I do see it on your Facebook and your social media— are your camps in Greece. So you've got 4 coming up this year in Greece, and then June and 2 in September in Greece. So what's different in Greece? What is Is the exercise sort of very similar? I mean, obviously it's going to be quite hot there. Yeah, apart from the weather, no, it's run more or less the same as we run our UK camps. All our camps abroad are run the same, the same way, the same morning walks, you know, we run through for the day till 5 o'clock, the same set meal times. But obviously we've got the beach, so we do stuff on the beach, we do stuff in the sea, we've got a pool, so we do stuff in the pool. Pool. It's, it's again, it's very varied, but it is run more or less the same as, as our UK camps. We still have military trainers that fly out with us to deliver the camps. We still get the same results. Oh really? Gosh, yeah, it's run very, very similar. Well, I must know, I do, I'm quite tempted to come and do one in Greece. It does look amazing, and I do I really love being in the water as well, so I think I'm gonna have to put that on my list. Great. Yeah, yeah, watch this space. You also do— you've got two camps in Thailand as well. Yeah, we lost— we obviously we missed out last year and the year before in Thailand because of COVID so we're definitely hoping to go back there this year, the last week in October and the first week in November. Back to Koh Samui, which is a beautiful island. And again, we run, run more or less the same way as we do in the UK. It's great fun in Thailand. All the girls go out on secret missions. Samui is quite a small island, so they're all used to us out there. And a lot of the girls have really missed it the last couple of years. Oh, have they? Yeah, yeah, not been able to get back out there. See, I mean, to combine a holiday and doing that exercise as well, and that must be— I think even I didn't realize that I actually liked exercise or could do it until I came to camp. And I have kept it, like you say, it's a kickstart. You can't sustain it. But now I do, do, um, I do boxing. I have become part of your life. It has. He comes to the house, but obviously during lockdown it was difficult. But then we were able to work outside in the garden. So I do boxing because that's one thing that we do with GI Jane, and I really love that. Now, I would never have ever given that a go before. And I also do PT as well at the gym with somebody because I find I get a lot more out of that. So for me, it's better to, to do a couple of PTs rather than try and go to some classes. I would— I think I could easily just think that, you know, not go to a class or not put as much effort in. But with the instruction, that, that for me is what really helps me get, get some more results. And, and I, um, it's been really important. I don't think I would have had that mindset to be able to go in and do that and, and think, right, this is what I need to do right now. Because I quite recently, well, in the past sort of 2 years, put on 2 stone from having, uh, going through the menopause and going on HRT. So while all my friends were not gaining weight and skipping around and having all this energy, I sort of wasn't sleeping at all and putting on weight, which 2 stone is quite a lot of weight to put on. I almost thought I might have to give up here and just live as a bigger person. That's how it's going to be. But I've got— well, I got myself back to camp. I lost a few pounds there, and then I've carried it on, and I have now lost it. But it's not an easy thing. No, the menopause is very, very difficult. And it is, and it is very difficult to lose weight when you're, when you're going through the menopause. But it is possible, as you've proven. I mean, myself, I probably put on about 2 stone during the menopause, which I've lost now. And it was very hard. But I mean, once you start exercising and make it a part of your life, whether it be PT sessions classes for some, you know, whatever works for you. Yeah, that weight will come off you. It is slow. That's part of life. That is part of getting older, unfortunately. And when we're older, we don't need as many calories either. You know, we can eat slightly less. Yeah, I think that's something that we sort of— it's easy to forget sometimes, isn't it? I think lockdown's been a bit difficult You know, people not going out and about. I mean, I certainly don't go out for days, sort of, you know, where I'd go out with friends shopping or something. I tend to just go out when I, as and when I need to. So, but even just going for, you know, a really good, nice walk. Yeah. Is something just to start with. I think the key to it, to a healthy life has got to be to keep moving, keep active. You know, as you said, like walking, like in lockdown, walking was a really big thing. And for me, that completely helped me maintain my weight. Lots of walking, coming home, doing weights. Just, just keep it. If you keep active mentally and physically, you're going to feel so much better. Oh, absolutely. And, and, and to know that, you know, hopefully, you know, you've lost your You've lost 2 stone, I've lost 2 stone. It, you know, the menopause is a big thing, but it also does bring about sort of changes in your life where, you know, if you have children, they're older and not needing quite so much from you in the same way they did when they were younger. So you have got some time that you can now sort of, there's another phase in your life and think, you know, maybe, you know, people who are listening, come and try a camp. You know, it's— I have never met anybody in all the camps I've been to who has regretted it. We've all had moments where we thought, can't do this, or had a few tears, or, you know, it's just so hard, I'm just not gonna get that last bit, I've got no more left in the tank. But Even if somebody sort of starts running alongside you or could cheer you on, shouting sort of words of encouragement, you can. And I mean, the, the age range as well of people who go to camp, it's unbelievable, the age range. Please, we have— we had a lady from New York who was 70 a couple of years ago. We've got, we've got a lady coming in a couple of weeks who's 68. Then we'll get 18-year-olds, you know, 30, 40, 50-year-olds. It's so varied. And no camp would be, would be the same without— but everybody has a down day, like a dip, you know, a moment where they're teary and you might cry and you don't even know why you're crying. But that, that's completely normal, you know, just go with it because all your emotions are arising. And it's— I just say, like, today's your turn, tomorrow will be someone else's turn. But you have to go through that process to get to the other end, and then you'll feel absolutely fantastic. Yeah, I've certainly left a few tears there. Yeah, but that's— but Eva, that's completely normal. I know, I know. Yeah, I know. And when somebody else is feeling like that, you really can empathize with how— of course, how they are. And the age range you know, this is the 18-year-olds, they are, you know, well, they're younger than my own children, and I don't know what some of them must think if they see people in their mid-50s like me. But actually, we all sort of rub along really well together. Yeah, definitely. I think I'm a great believer in that you can learn from people whatever their age, and I think So I like to hear what young people— I mean, they're extremely useful if you need some help with your internet. Oh, definitely. Yeah, most definitely. But then I think we've also got a lot of knowledge and stuff that, you know, they can pass on to them. Yeah, we pass on to them and they can see us giving it a go. And, you know, or maybe there's something that I've done before because I've been to camps before and they're not quite sure on the, on the technique, or they're, they're finding it physically tough, then you can sort of get down and, and, and help them, go alongside and do it. And I think that's— I, I really enjoy mixing with, with the younger age group people. Um, yeah, I think it's a— I think it's really healthy to have. And you find— I don't know about you, but I find as well that it's the younger ones that struggle more than the older ones? Yeah, I don't know why. Um, perhaps our lives— I mean, if you look at some lives now today, it's so much of it is technology-based. And, um, people— when I was certainly sort of maybe 18, you know, my, my— I didn't drive. My mum didn't drive, you know, we walked. Yeah, you walked everywhere. Yeah, and you know, we went to, we went to the park, we went to, you know, that's pretty much I would say every day we would be doing outside playing. Yeah, outside playing. We didn't get a television until, I don't know, however, you know, and we only had like 4 channels, didn't we? And now there's so, so much that they do. So I think we were maybe brought up that you did go outside and you did do things a little differently. And I'm not sure about how much exercise people get at school now, whether or not, you know, there is enough, because I think it is really, really important for your wellbeing and to keep sport up because it's quite quite difficult if you do stop and then you start again. So to keep— yeah, it's really, really important to have some form of activity in your life, definitely. So you, um, when you run your camps, you manage to— you do train with the women as well, so we all get to know you a bit, and we know that you are quite competitive in the— yeah, only in the games. I can be games. Yeah, games. I love games. The games are great fun. Yeah. And also, you've run a marathon. I would— I have run a marathon. I'd use the word run very loosely though, Eva. I mean, it did take me quite a while to get round. You completed it. You completed it. Yeah, I did complete it, and it was an amazing achievement. I did it for the hospice that cared for both my parents when they were dying of cancer. So it's for a brilliant cause. And I knew no matter how long it took me, I would come, I would finish it. But then I also think that boot camp helped me do that. Like boot camp made me realize that anything is possible. Yeah. And if you put your mind to something, you will do it. So. And then did you do the marathon with Mandy as well? Did you? Yes, together. I mean, together. And then we did a half marathon a couple of years ago again for the hospice. We did the London Parks. Well, I mean, that's incredible. And you think, like, for Mandy, she came out of the Priory and then you, you guys did a week's boot camp. Now from that you've gone to running camps. And, um, I mean, Mandy's a very big part of that as well. And, and it's great. I mean, you two are extremely lucky to be so close and to be such great sisters. So you did the marathon as well? Well, I got from my first camp, I got the, um, instruction that I needed to tell me how to improve my running and extend my distance because, well, I haven't really run for years. So, um, and then from there I trained and did the, um, completed the marathon. I didn't know whether I was going to do it. Well, I wanted to, but you don't really know till the day, and then you've been finish that you're going to do it. But I actually saw, um, it was Mandy was there when I— she was in the crowd and I actually ran past and stopped and not had a long chat, obviously. Yeah. But that was, that was great because you go and do quite a lot of people go on and achieve things. Yeah, well, we supported, uh, one of our clients, Leanne Knowles, this year she did the marathon. Yeah. We were there at the— myself and Mandy were there at the end to meet her. And it's such an emotional thing at the end. Yes, they did it. And it was so— and it's so nice to be there for some of our clients that I mean, because we're both so close to London, it's so lovely because your daughter ran the marathon last year as well, didn't she? Yeah, she's done quite a few now. Yeah. She's, you know, she's a bit of an inspirational person and she's also someone that I want to do a camp with. I think, yeah, like she would just totally, totally love it. And we always run for, uh, Children with Cancer. And she's— she is now, um, 27, but when she was, um, 14 months old, she was diagnosed with leukemia and had nearly 4 years of treatment. And we actually— some side effects of that gave her some, um, some, some problems where, yeah, we weren't actually sure whether she would, uh, ever walk or talk. And now she's like, she's running marathons. I mean, she's a, a very determined— wow, that's so impressive. Yeah, so for me, and actually my husband as well, we both ran that, uh, marathon, and, and she, she beat both of us by, I you know, a long time. But yeah, just to do that all together was, was pretty, um, amazing. And I think if you can do anything, not just for yourself, but if you do manage to raise some money for a charity, of course, that's really close to you, then, you know, it's just, it's a really incredible thing, thing to do. And I'm sure you've inspired many people to go, um, and run the marathon. People that I've now met from through camp. They've gone on and done like Tough Mudders. I mean, I'm down to do one of those this year as well. I've got, I've got Tough Mudder added to my list and I'm excited. So the other thing I have from G.I. Jane is the most amazing new friends. There's, there's one One person in particular, uh, and I don't think she'll mind me saying that. I mean, she and I are so incredibly close, um, it's just, it's like having a sleepover with your best mate for a whole week. It's just great. I mean, I snore, she doesn't even mind that. I mean, that is how close we are. So it's a good laugh, the pair of you. We are, we're like, yeah. Comedy duo act, and we see each other. And there's another couple of friends as well, as a four we get together and we just have such a good time. But we're also always on our little WhatsApp group, you know, supporting each other still with the exercise that we're doing. Um, even though we're not at camp, but we'll all be there in April, so you get all 4 of us. I know, and I'm really, really looking forward to that. Yeah, me too. Yeah, totally, totally fantastic. So when's the next camp then? Are you starting one on Friday? We just finished one on Friday, and we're not back now to the 18th of February. Then we've got 3 consecutive weeks back to back. And what, what do you do? What do you enjoy doing in your spare time then when you've not got, uh, the camps? Um, well, I'm still always working, always doing social media and taking bookings, etc. Um, I still obviously, I go to the gym 4 or 5 times a week, um, do lots of weights, and I do classes as well because I enjoy classes. And I mix it up quite a bit. And I love reading, and it's really nice. Yeah, I absolutely love reading. So what, are you a book person or a Kindle person? I'm a book person. I like to turn a page. Yeah, I like to turn a page. And what do you like to read? I like reading lots of fiction. Thrillers, that kind of stuff. I've just ordered a self-help book actually, Manifest, um, by a new author. I will tell you who it is. I'm just waiting for it to arrive. Um, it should be here today, and that is by— just bear with me a second— One second. It is, uh, Manifest: 7 Steps to Living Your Best Life by Roxy Nafusi. And I've heard great things about this. It's on the Sunday Times bestseller list. Oh, is it really? So it's an ebook out? Yeah. Oh, you have to know what those 7 things are today, so I'll let you know what that's like. But it's meant to be very, very good. I do enjoy self-help books as well because you can never stop learning. No, absolutely. And if you— you know, a great thing is, um, like, I don't, I don't actually work, uh, full-time anymore, uh, but I was a, uh, you know, my profession is, uh, is a teacher. And I always used to think, like, to teaching, helping a child to read or helping anyone to learn to read, once you can do that, in the amount of things that you can You can choose to learn about anything. Yeah. If you're able to read or if you're able to listen, because like listening is a really great skill as well. And yeah, I mean, in my spare time, I have a dog, so she takes up quite a lot of my spare time, and that I've found to be extremely healthy, helpful, and positive. I'm If I was in America, she would be labeled as my emotional support animal, but we don't actually recognize that here. Don't know why, but you know, we don't. So having animals, I think, is very therapeutic anyway. Definitely. Seeing, you know, she wants to play, she wants to go out, she wants to walk, she wants to interact, you know, the way they sniff around and you know, you're doing— interacting with an animal out in the countryside. I mean, that's been another really great thing for, for me, not just for my physical health but for my mental health. And I actually— she gives me confidence to go, to go out because I'm not— I don't feel like I'm by myself or I've got to necessarily make an arrangement to meet someone and go out. You can just and go out with your dog. You've got something. So yeah, Mandy, I don't think Mandy wouldn't survive without her animals. My sister, she absolutely loves her dogs and her cats. Yeah, I think, and I never, we never had a dog. I always thought we were apparently were cat people. That's what I kind of was brought up in the family where we were cat people. And dogs meant that you could never go away, and they were like really going to change, you know, what you could do. But I've not found that at all. I've found it's actually sort of increased. In fact, I've met more people through my dog because people stop and talk to you. I mean, she's quite well known in the town now. She knows which shops have got treats in, so those shops do quite well out of us actually because we're always going in them. Yeah, and I think it's proved as well in lockdown like the amount of people that went out and got dogs. Yeah, yeah. And also the amount of places now that will allow dogs in. I think that's become a little bit more, more sort of acceptable. And obviously you're not going to take in a dog that's not going to behave, but a well-behaved dog, if you can take that with you. There's so many places dog-friendly now, aren't they? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. And my dog loves it, she absolutely loves it. What kind of dog have you got, Mandy? Oh, I've got a cockapoo called Piper, and she's just the most gorgeous thing that I've ever, ever had. So, so have you got two dogs? I haven't got any dogs. Mandy's got a Labrador and a cocker spaniel. She had two Labradors and she lost her eldest, um, last year, so she went and got herself a cocker spaniel. And she's got two cats as well. Oh, has she? Oh yeah, but the cats now hide upstairs. I can say, how do the cats get on with the dogs? Because I don't think— we had two cats when we got off, uh, when we got Piper, and they, well, they just thought— they, they just ignored her really. And I don't think it did anything. They were still happy and had nice quality of life, but they definitely are a bit more wary about coming. You know, dogs have slightly more sort of dominant presence. And yeah, but we decided that we're not going to have any more cats. They were fine with the Labradors because they all arrived at the same time. But now she's got the cocker spaniel Ralph, he does actually terrorize them. Oh really? So they hide upstairs in one of the bedrooms. So you're not planning on getting a dog then? Not at the moment, no, purely because I do travel so much with boot camp. Well, exactly, you do. And it wouldn't be fair for me to have a dog that I couldn't commit to fully. No, that's why I didn't get one till, um, And also, to, you know, you also, you do need to find somebody who's going to look after an animal. You know, when I go to boot camp, I cannot have my, you know, our dog go to work with my husband every day. It's just not, well, it's just not practical. And also, for her, it's not, it's not a pleasant way for an animal spend their day. So I'm really fortunate I've got some amazing friends who, who I've met through my dog, through their dogs. Yeah, stopping and chatting that they're, um, yeah, and they know none of them have volunteered to come to boot camp with me, but they have volunteered to look after my dog. So, uh, yeah, yeah, yes. So I'm actually quite glad that they're not coming actually, so they can look after— yes, they can look after your dog. Well, it's been absolutely lovely talking to you, um, and thank you for sponsoring this show. So have you got any sort of advice for people, for women who might think, gosh, you know, that's an idea, I could— don't need to do a spa break or a golf break, or maybe I could think of a boot camp break where, I mean, you do I always bring my trainers, obviously, like, for my shoes. My— I'm talking about trainers. I, I usually bring about 3 pairs. One that can get— they can get absolutely ruined, it doesn't matter. Another pair sort of backup outside, and then one for indoor. And I always leave at least one pair there in the bin because they are not going to recover for, uh— and then it's actually quite good, then I get new trainers. So I hope that— I like to think of it as I'm looking after my feet and not wearing them out. But what advice would you have for people? I mean, I went from someone who couldn't go outside to going, driving, getting there, doing the whole week, and actually changed so much with the way— not only the way I felt about myself and the impact it had on my mental health. But as I actually felt as myself as an achiever and also as somebody who had some knowledge and who had conversation about news topics that I'd not learned, that I didn't know before, because I didn't know a lot about exercise. So what would you say about anybody who's thinking about coming? You know, you get everything included. All your training sessions are included. You also get a massage. Yes, you do. You get the massage. They come and you get a lovely, lovely sports massage. You get fed, you get lovely, nice, warm, cozy accommodation to stay in and plenty of hot water. Even get your washing done once a week as well. You get very spoilt actually. You get completely spoilt. Yeah, what I would say is, like, come to us with an open mind. Don't have any preconceived ideas of what to expect. Um, put your trust in us because we've been doing this for a long time now and it does work. And just take it a session at a time. Don't be worried about what's going to happen the next day, the next hour. Just take it one session at a time and you'll get through it. And when I say get through it, because it's really grueling For some people to start with, it will seem that way. And also remember, it's so much fun. And laughter and exercise together are the best— they're the best antidepressants you can have. They just are amazing. I think so. I, yeah, I really agree. I certainly laugh so much, not just during the sessions, but when we have, you know, we We do get fed and we do get breaks and, you know, we get— so we get a morning walk, breakfast, and then sessions, and then we have a snack, and then we have lunch, we have another snack, and then we have dinner. And then we all— we all bundle— we're all in our pajamas or sort of loungewear, you know, group of women sitting around watching, I don't know, Say Yes to the Dress or Yeah, and when you get a group of women together, yeah, like strong women together, amazing things happen. Like incredible things happen because you, you support each other and you become so tight that you get each other through it and you get— and you laugh with each other. Yeah, we do. It's just, um, there's never— I don't think I've ever experienced any sort of awkward moments where I've thought, oh, you know, I'm not quite sure what to, to do now, or what this person sort of makes of me. It's all just fine to go and be, um, be you, be you, be who you are. And then, like you say, be open to it, be receptive. Um, you do also have, um, Ben who does nutritional advice as well, and you send, um, Everybody the recipes. Yeah, they get recipes for all the food they've had on the week and they get the nutrition brief, everything that's been discussed by Ben. You know, you, you, you, we literally make sure that you've got all the tools needed when you leave to implement positive changes in your life. Yeah, I think that's definitely what I— that, that is, that's what it's about. You know, people, you know, if you want to see change, you've got to be that change. I think somebody said to me, um, you know, my, my, uh, what I needed to really sort of help myself with and have help for was, um, trauma that I experienced. But, and you can get help, but I think you do have to take some responsibility and go and try and find your own sort of healing, your own. And, um, that's why I, I sort of came to boot camp. I wanted to— I tackled the, um, image, makeup, that sort of thing, which is, you can, you know, you, you can see a result in a few, a few minutes with that. Of course, yeah, you can, you know, you can still achieve and feel absolutely terrific, even after the morning walk, let alone the rest of it. But I think if you find— I mean, I threw the net really wide open. I've done acting courses and I tried to be receptive to as many new things as I could. But the one thing that I still keep doing every year is coming back to GI Day. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm excited for 2022 now because my camp is this year, so it's not too far away. And yeah, I can't wait to come and see you. We say like on all our Instagram posts or social media, we always say like, come to GR Jane Bootcamp where the magic happens. But it does happen. There is magic at GR Jane Bootcamp. Absolutely. And it's created by all the wonderful women that walk through our doors. It's like, it's magic and it's like gold. It's just— so my advice to anybody, you know, if you're struggling, it's not somewhere that you I have never ever brought anyone with me. I've always come on my own, and there aren't that many places that you can go to on your own. No, not at all. When you come on your own, you— because you're there for you. Yeah, you're not there for anybody else, you're there purely for you, and it's about time for you, isn't it? Yeah, no, it's absolutely, um, great. Well, thank you. We've just got about another minute. Is there anything else that you'd like to add or about the camp or— Yeah, I just, I just think if you're, if you, if I mean, if you just feel like you're stuck in a rut, you know, just it's so worth giving it a go. And we're not all about weight loss. People think GI Jane Boot Camp, you know, it's all about weight loss. It's not. It's about so much more than weight loss. You will lose weight whilst you're there because you're on a calorie deficit, so you are going to lose weight, but it's about the mental impact. It's about how you, how you can use everything you've learned at GI Jane Boot Camp and take that forward into your everyday life. Yeah, I totally agree with that because I think it's about 7 years now that since I started coming, and there's definitely things that, uh, in my life now, in the— and it's been continuous from that first visit that, um, I have had, uh, I've still got— it's still there, it's still there, and I'm coming back, um, for more of it, and it almost feels um, when I arrive, it just feels so great to be back. It's like, because you feel like part of the family. Yeah, I call them— you're my Kent family. Yeah, definitely. Um, that's what, what it feels like. So, so anybody who's, who's, um, thinking, or maybe has people that they know who they think might benefit from this, um, definitely I would recommend it to, to anybody and everybody. Who would like to do it. And if you do have someone that makes a decision to go and do a boot camp, then, you know, really support them. It's, you know, it's a very challenging, and I think, you know, it can take a lot of courage to go somewhere on your own. It's not something we do an awful lot of. So, and you can, you don't have to do a whole week. You can do just a weekend, but go with an open mind like Sharon said. Be prepared to laugh a lot and have an awful lot of fun and meet some really interesting people. I've actually really enjoyed having time to get to know people and to talk to them away from messaging or Facebook or any sort of social media. This is the best way to be sociable as well is to actually live with people like that for, for a week or 5 days or whatever. So, um, and so thank you so much for— like, I'm glad you went to Wales and had a boot camp and then decided to run one, because, uh, it's certainly a, a very important part of my life now, and it, and it will be until, um Well, every year I come and I think, this is it, I'm too old, I can't do another one. But then I get home and I'm already on the internet looking to see what's coming up next year. So, um, yeah, but, but thank you so much. So thank you, Eva, for inviting me on. It's been a pleasure. And anybody who wants to ask you about the camps or to have a look, you can look at, um, GI Jane Boot Camp. Your, your social media is, is very good and it depicts very well what people will be doing, or they can contact you. Your contact information is on your website and ask any questions. And I look forward to seeing you in April. Yes, so do I. I look forward to seeing you then, Eva. I love to Monday as well. Okay, thank you.