Health Hacktivators – Dr Aamer Khan, Anti Ageing Cosmetic, Why You Should Test Your Skin Microbe

You're listening to Health Hacktivators with me, Dr. Alka Patel, on the Womanz radio station. Welcome to Health Hacktivators with lifestyle medicine doctor, GP, and longevity expert Dr. Alka Patel. This show will help you to discover a hidden health hacking code that unlocks your phenomenal potential for an outstanding healthspan, lifespan, and wealthspan. The show features candid conversations with celebrities, influencers, and industry icons real-life stories, and cutting-edge health activating advice that other doctors might not tell you. Discover why now is the time to join the strategic self-care revolution and experience the profound effect this will have on your personal and professional success. Now, here is your host, Dr. Alka Patel. Hi, hey, and hello, health activators. Now, I hope you are ready for some intense learning today because you have got not just one doctor in the room, room, but two doctors in the room today. So today I am joined by the wonderful Dr. Amer Khan. What can I tell you about Dr. Khan? Well, Dr. Khan has a beautiful, beautiful Harley Street practice which he runs with his very enchanting wife Leslie, and where he devotes himself to everything aesthetic. He is the aesthestician. That's a fun word to say, aesthestician. Aka Cosmetic Doctor, to an incredible star-studded lineup of celebrities and clients. Now, I'm sure that he will have signed a lot of non-disclosure agreements, but Gillian Taylforth, Patsy Palmer, Samantha Fox— they're just a few names that come to mind. So today I am tapping into his polished knowledge on anti-aging cosmetic technology and also on regenerative Medicine. So what are we talking about? We're talking about beauty on the outside, but I also believe in beauty on the inside. So we're also talking about the skin-mind connection and the skin-gut connection. So if you are ready to hear two doctors talking about beauty on the inside and on the outside, then here you go. Before we get into today's conversation, please do support today's show sponsor, Youth and Earth. Youth and Earth have a range of products that I love to use myself to supercharge my metabolism, to support my health, and to slow down cellular aging. So just be sure you click the link in the show notes for exclusive offers which Youth and Earth are so generously giving only for listeners of this show. Dr. Khan, hello, hello. It is so lovely to be talking with you today, and I know there's a lot that we're going to be chatting about. So I do want to talk about beauty and the skin and the mind-skin connection and the gut-skin connection and bring it all together. So if that's okay with you, can we start off with the conversation around beauty? Sure. And the reason I say this, um, is because we met most recently, didn't we, at your Back on Track Gala charity. We had A brief interaction there at the beautiful, beautiful London landmark hotel, and such a moving event. So it'd be great to come back and chat about your charity work as well. But, um, what was really striking at the gala was very much the beauty in the room. So that sort of outward beauty. And there was one moment I had the pleasure of being on the dance floor with Gillian Tailforth, who— you're smiling, I know— she's one of your celebrity clients, isn't she? She was in your series way back when, that Stitch Me, Lift Me, Tuck Me, and She looked incredible, just stunning. So that sense of beauty, that external beauty, you must have had lots and lots of conversations in your career about this. Why does it matter? Why does that outward look matter so much to people? Well, first of all, thank you for supporting us at that wonderful do. We had a— there was so much love in the room as well. And though there was outward beauty, there was lots of inward beauty as well, because I think they really go together. You can have somebody who's absolutely stunning, but when you sit with them, you realize that inside they're not. Yeah. So I think, you know, it's, it's really important to, to understand that when people are striving for looking good and, you know, looking the best they can, being the best they can is really important as well. But in just, just coming back to Gillian, and we've known Gillian— Leslie's known Gillian for over 25 years, and she's been looking after her skin. Gillian's an old friend as well. She's not just a client. And I was introduced to her after I met Leslie, and we've been just working together. And because Gillian is in the public eye, as are actresses and a lot of the celebrities and also influencers, it's part of their career, it's part of their whole persona that they need to look good. So when we, when we look at people in the public eye. A lot of people look at them and they wish they could be like that, but the time and effort and investment they put into how they look is tremendous, more so than the ordinary person would, because that's not really— and it shouldn't be— our number one priority. Because our number one priority is, is getting on with our lives, our families, and, you know, and living within our communities. Whereas these people, they spend a lot of time and effort honing how they look. When we look at these people— and Gillian has— she does little and often, you know, she looks after herself, she's healthy within, she's happy in herself. You know, everybody has challenges, you know, on screen and off screen. Um, she, she is becoming the person that she wants to be, and she's making those choices. And when we live a life like that, when we live a life without you know, that much stress and pain. That's what we should be aiming for. Yeah, challenges are going to come, difficulties are going to happen around us. We have no control. Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Mental well-being is, is around that, isn't it? Of course. So that's really interesting, isn't it? Because as you say, I mean, you are a doctor to the celebrities, of course, and have got a huge roster of, of star-studded, um, people that you, that you look after and care about in a, in a very holistic way, um, as well. But But of course, the influence of someone like Gillian, for example, filters into everybody else who's watching and seeing how amazing people look. And that sense again of outward beauty becomes a primary, even though, as you've said, right now the important stuff is getting on with our lives. So what do you say to that when people's first priority becomes, I need to sort out how I look before I think about how I feel? That becomes almost the obsession or the primary. What do you say to that? I think, you know, what we need to find out is their motivation behind it. You know, what is it that's driving them to look better? And I think there's a huge psychological element to this. You know, it's not trivial, it's really important. And what I've seen, because we've been around the business for such a long time, you know, we're sort of the sort of original I wouldn't say pioneers, but the original torchbearers. Yeah, the torch, and we ran with it. And hopefully we've directed the business in the right sort of direction, you know, with, with good ethics and good sportive attitude. We've seen a tremendous change in how people look at beauty. You know, we talk about a generational gap now because we have the baby boomers and And in our time, there was no Botox. You know, fillers came in about 30 years ago. It came in really because they came in— most of the filler work was being done in the military. Nurses were patching up people who'd been injured, and they were, you know, they had deficiencies in this, and they were using fillers to help balance the face out. And we learned about fillers, and then they came into beauty, and they started off with collagen. It was bovine collagen where we had to do test patches and a risk. And then, you know, Botox came in, and Botox came in around when I first came in into this industry. But before then, there was no Botox. Thinking about beauty, we were looking at the film stars and very few people who'd had cosmetic work done. So it was either, you know, soap and water, makeup, or surgery, and that's all there was. Lots of things have come in, and it was an indulgence for our generation. It was quite a secret indulgence. We didn't want to— yeah, a big step to take. But now children have been born into a society where Botox is normal. They've never known life without Botox and fillers and beauty industry. And for them, it's a different cultural approach. It's, it's part of their —how they look is part of their psychophysical well-being. And they spend little and often, but overall a lot more time, effort, and more of their income on how they look. And we've got to understand it's a different culture. They just have different— Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let me probe a little bit into that then, because in terms of that sort of psychophysical model that you're talking about, you'll be aware, of course, of the facial feedback hypothesis. So So there's a little bit of debate around this, isn't there? So this sense that your outward expression of your emotion then gives you that feedback as well. So there was a study that I read, it's a few years ago now, it was in the journal Scientific Reports, and they took two groups of people, one group who'd had the Botox that you're mentioning and another group who hadn't, and they showed them a series of pictures which took them from a kind of normal-looking neutral face to increasing anger. And the group that had had the Botox, they had a much more delayed response to knowing when they were able to detect anger. And of course, that detection of someone else's emotion is so important for us to be able to then respond back. I mean, even if you go back to Darwin times, he posited, didn't he, that he said the outward signs of an emotion intensify it. So there's almost two ways of looking at this, is that you know, freezing your expression might be helpful for you because it then means that you're not intensifying your outward emotion of anxiety or depression and getting that feedback yourself, but it also might restrict you from being responsive to other people. And we need that as well. We need to be humans that are responsive to each other's emotions so that we can understand and have empathy and build our EQ, our emotional intelligence as well. So where do you sit with that? Because obviously you're the, you're the giver of Botox in your career as well. So where do you sit with that? You're absolutely right. And, and you know what, what, what is important isn't just the expression, but the changes in expression that happen with changes in emotion. And I think what happens is, as we get older, part of the aging process is certain muscles become more dominant, and the down pull and these lines. So people look angry without being angry. So the converse is true as well. So people come in to see me and I always ask them, you know, why do you want better? Why, you know, they say the first thing is tell me what concerns you. The next question is always, well, why do you want this? And they say because I look angry and people are responding to me as if I were angry and I'm not, or I look sad. And what people relate to, and you're very right, they relate their expressions to emotions. Those emotions aren't necessarily true emotions because that's not how they're feeling inside, but that's how they're looking. This whole conversation about emotional feedback is really important. And from that perspective, we've developed our techniques accordingly, in that we do what we call Baby Botox or Micro Botox. And I've— we've, we've sort of branded it as well as Microtox and Babytox. And I teach that because we're not freezing expression. That's the last thing we want to do. And when I see patients, I counsel them in that what we don't want to do is freeze you so you can't express yourself. And it's really an important message for us to get across to people that what we're doing is we're rebalancing your muscular balance. So we're raising your brow, we're relaxing your face. But you can still express. If we stop expressions, that's when the face will want to express using other muscles. So you get these strange smiles and these strange movements where we haven't— but because expression isn't a functional muscle, you know, like your biceps or your calves or, or the big muscles, they will attenuate and they'll weaken more quickly. But expressive muscles want to show emotion. And your face will motion in different ways. And that's when people start to look strange and they looked Botoxed. We explain that to them. Another interesting study, or a number of studies that were done, and we recently had a conference discussing this, and we had, um, the, the, the sort of first proponents of Botox from, from Canada come and talk to us. And, um, she was saying that studies have been done to show that if you you do Botox here, you change the tension in the muscles here, is linked to an increase in serotonin levels. And the next stage of Botox development, or botulinum toxin development, is going to be in the psychiatric field where it can be used for people with depression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so interesting. And I've been reading about this as well because I think we've got the approach to depression so, so wrong. You know, I've been a GP for a large part of my career, and all that was involved is here's your antidepressants in a 10-minute consultation. And it's so wrong because we haven't really got to the root of what is the trigger for these emotions and these feelings. And there is something in terms of what you're describing is back to those kind of mirror neurons and that expression is if you don't express an emotion, then the emotion can die in a way and it's not in a bad way. It's because there's a two-way street, isn't there? You're not frowning because you're angry, you're also angry because you're frowning. So you're getting that kind of two-way responsiveness. And it's really useful that you've talked about these kind of micro— your micro approach as well, because I find that emotions come second. It first— it's your thoughts. When you go back to kind of the psychology, it's your thoughts, and then you have a physiological response to that, which then expresses itself as an emotion, both verbally or in your, in your physique as well. And then that magnifies much more how you feel as well. So, um, so let's talk about that then a little bit and in terms of the kind of psychodermatology and that connection between skin and, uh, emotions, or skin and more sort of mental health as well. So we certainly know for things like acne or psoriasis, stress increases this. This is— then if you look at the sort of psoriasis data, you've got an 80% increase in flare-ups with psoriasis triggered by stress. So just tell us a little bit about the background around that. What is that connection between skin and— skin and mind? I think that it's— well, we're talking about genomics now, where we're talking about Genetic switches, and it's our genetic makeup and expression of genes, the on and off switches, which in our bodies control how our bodies work and how they respond. And also they have a huge impact on the inflammatory system. And stress— I mean, part of stress is cortisol response, and the cortisol response itself is what we call a master hormone, which has an impact on your genomic setup. So it has a huge impact on how your body works. It also is an androgenic hormone. So high levels of cortisol is going to initially stimulate acne process because it's, it's a genetic drive that causes it. And just like with polycystic ovary syndrome, you're producing more androgenic hormones. But the stress itself will switch these genes. It'll change the genes and it'll create inflammation. And we're expressing stress through our skins. You can— it's not just on our expressions in our face, but the whole skin. It's one of the biggest organs in the body, just like the gut. The surface of the gut is enormous. You know, and the lungs, the surface area of the lungs is enormous. All of these have hormonal and genomic impacts on how we feel. They affect the brain. There's a gut-brain axis which we're very much aware of now. And biome, we've got millions and hundreds of millions, if not billions, of microbiome in our gut which have have an effect, and some are good, some are not so good. But it's not that they're good or bad, it's the balance of those microbiome which affect how we function, not just with our minds and our neurological functioning, because they produce neuropeptides which cross the blood-brain barrier, but also they interact with our hormone systems. So our whole sort of neurohormonal balance is influenced by a lot more than we originally thought and a lot more than we were taught in traditional medicine. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's all evolving, isn't it? As you say, we're understanding a lot more about the gut microbiome. We're getting much more used to even that terminology of your gut bacteria and all their different functions and having a kind of diverse microbiome and how we feed into that and fuel into that. But there's also now increasing conversation about your skin microbiome and in exactly the same way as, as you say, this huge surface area in your gut that houses all this bacteria. I mean, think about what is on our skin and the synergy with that as well. So have you come across sort of— are you doing any work in that area or have you come across any important strategies around that? Absolutely. We've been looking at the skin microbiome for a long time because we realized was that if we upset the skin microbiome again, an impact on the localized immunity of the skin, not just the pH, but the immunity. And if we upset the biome, what that does is it can create inflammatory responses. And if we're prone from a genetic perspective of having psoriasis or having eczema or having other type of hives and, you know, inflammatory reactions on our skins, it'll make that worse. But, you know, about— I think it was about 10 years ago, we developed a product with, with microbiome prebiotics in. We developed what they're calling now a hybrid product, and it's the Illuminating Serum. And we— what we put in there is fermented lemon rind, which creates the right microbiome for the skin, helps it balance out. And we've been using that product for over 10 years now in people with rosacea, people with sensitive skins, and it's really really good. It helps to balance out the microbiome, but in doing so, we're increasing the skin's defenses as well against just inflammatory conditions from within, but attack from the outside. Anti-pollutant, because it neutralizes the effects of pollution. It neutralizes the effect of other caustic and irritative influences from the outside— chemicals, you know, dust, whatever. And people hands a lot, they're scrubbing off the microbiome. So they can— problems with eczema of the hands, just look. Yes, yes. Gosh, it's so great to make this connection. And I think for people listening, so important to recognize this connection because most people won't connect their gut with their skin. So if your skin's inflamed, most people aren't thinking, oh, there's got to be something going on with my gut. But I think this is a really, really important connection to make. So we've gone from that sort of outer beauty inward now to thinking about about what is going on inward. And of course, inflammation is that key process, and particularly with aging. And you've described sort of aging skin, but aging as a, as a disease in a way, which, which it kind of primarily is. It's the one thing that leads to everything else. The core of that comes from inflammation as well. So this is, um, wonderful to, to connect the dots for people listening, is to really, really think about, yes, there's the outward beauty, but what's going on internally with my inflammatory response and my gut health as well, and to really make that connection is so useful. But even broader than that, because I know now your work is also in a very similar way, uh, to mine, really moved on to the wellness space. Everything is connected, there's a whole synergy, isn't there? So tell us a little bit about your, uh, your retreats as well, as I know you do some wonderful work up in Paddington Hall. So I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, um, we— for a long time we've been thinking about how we can move into a space where we can, can really help people to deal with what I call, call the root cause of people whose wellness is affected. So, you know, I'm not talking about disease, but dis-ease, which is the difference between where we want it to be and where we're actually at. And that could be psychologically, physically, medically, spiritually. If we're not bringing those two together and closer together, then we have a degree of discomfort in our lives. We're not leading a pain-free life. And what we've— what we realized was a long time ago that to have good skin and to look great, you really need to be good inside. So it brought me right back to my medical training, my medical background, because my biggest challenge throughout the whole of medicine was that we had traditional medicine and we were expected to work within those restrictive parameters where we knew that we could help people a lot more by addressing all these other issues or other aspects to wellness. And I've been working on this ever since I went into general practice. I made a connection with my patients. I would spend more time with them and help them. And it wasn't just about, Doc, I've got a cough, I keep getting a cough. It was, let's look at the root cause. Course, let's see why this keeps coming back. And not just trying to patch over the cough, but let's try and find out what's going on. My training, my wide training helps with this because I decided really early on to get a really good grounding in training because I was going to be out there in general practice, and a lot of general practice practitioners didn't really understand the skin. They didn't really understand psychiatry. Most of them really, what they really knew was some general medicine, so coughs, colds, geriatric medicine, old age medicine. They knew about obs and gyne and they knew about peds, and that was about it. But to connect the dots and to really help people— and part of my early life in general practice was setting up projects, community projects, where I tried to bring the concept of healthy eating into schools, went and taught children at schools about healthy eating and the risks and dangers and pitfalls of processed foods and quick foods. And they really took that on board well. Unfortunately, their parents didn't. So when they went home, the parents said, oh, that's all very interesting, let's go have a McDonald's. So it was really great, that sort of cycle. And then the other project that I really, really enjoyed being involved with was within a community. The parents were stressed Parents were coming in saying they were showing signs of stress. Both were working because with, with the changes in economy and changes in the workplace, both mum and dad went to work and the children had to be looked after, and they were struggling with finding appropriate childcare. And we also had depression in the elderly community. So what I did was, because of my own background, my own childhood, we used to come home and and there was a— we lived in a maisonette, it was a council maisonette. We were upstairs as a family, we had the building, and underneath there was a little, like, a flat with an apartment with a little old lady called Mrs. Doherty. And she was the most wonderful old lady. And what we used to do was after school we went to see her and we'd sit with her and she'd make us tea, and she'd have tea and scones and biscuits ready for us. She'd cook, she'd bake them. So she had something that she was doing, it was occupying her mentally. She was never depressed, and she was always happy to see us. And we would go in and she'd look after us till our parents came home from work, and then they'd take us upstairs. And if she ever had any problems, she had a stick and she'd bang on the ceiling, and we'd come down and help her. So we had this really lovely, beautiful relationship with her. And, you know, and we missed her when she went because she was like a grandma to us. So what I thought would be good was to bring young families and the elderly together within that community. So the family had somebody they could trust, and there was a home, a safe environment for the children to go to. And for the elderly person, they had somebody who had an input. And the whole psychological well-being of that community improved, and it was lovely to see. And I enjoyed the project because it took me back to my childhood, but it actually brought something in which which wasn't anything to do with treating depression with medication, or, you know, helping referring people to social services because they weren't coping with their children and their childcare and things like that, and looking for funds. Actually saved funds in having to treat depression and support the elderly and having to bring in funds to support the children, you know, from government funds. So it saved money as well. Wow, wow, gosh, it sounds like you've had influence in many different areas through your career, which is, which is incredible. And as you say, these bite-sized projects then lead on to so much more as well. So, okay, so maybe let's do a little bit of a quickfire then, sort of based on what you've been talking about. So if you went back to your younger self and gave yourself one piece of advice about your health, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, what would that be? I think I would say focus a little bit more on your spiritual self. When I was young, because of my background— my parents came here when I was 3, and there was a huge focus on— my father gave up his work and he started from scratch. So he was a very angry man because is, though he came over to educate us for all the right reasons, his own personal life, which he gave up when he came here, I think he mourned and he lost. And he, he, he had depression, he had a lot of anger, and he expressed that within the family unit. And this, this was— at that time, it was, it was accepted. It wasn't acceptable, but it was accepted. And I learned a lot from So, you know, we had, we had our difficult times, and, but we learned from that. And my focus was on making a decision and going for it because I felt very much alone. And my mentors and my role models came from my teachers, my athletics coach, because I, I went into athletics. So I was really focused. I was focused on athletics., and I really got into that, a national champion. So, you know, I knew I could achieve if I went into something, and I just threw myself into, as you said earlier, projects. I love projects because they challenge me as well. And I threw myself into education, and I knew at the age of 8 I wanted to be a doctor. I was influenced, and I was impressed with my grandfather's achievements. He was a doctor through and through, and he would give everything to his patients. And, you know, he was my inspiration in becoming a doctor. At the age of 8, I decided that's what I was going to do. And from that point, that's where my focus was. I was very focused. What I didn't do was I didn't really develop the other aspects to my wellness, the other pillars that hold wellness up, like— yeah, like mindfulness and meditation. And, you know, and I didn't really pay that much attention, though our nutrition was good because it was based— we didn't have the luxury to have processed foods and things like that. You know, we had— we ate— my father would go to— we were in Leeds, there was a Leeds Market which was all fresh farm food, and we would shop there. So we had good nutrition. Um, nutritional side was well catered for, but I didn't really pay that much attention. And, and And with my frustration, there was anger because that was a learned behavior. There was a lot of anger. And I learned to control that as I got older, you know, used it to my own advantage to focus it through different things. You know, my aunt actually referred to it. She said, "You've changed." I said, "How do you think? What do you mean I've changed?" She said, "You're so different now. I don't see the Khan anger anymore." Because my father get it through frustration. Anger is an expressed emotion. It's, it's not— it's just the end outcome of something inside. And yeah, it was frustration for him. And when I got it, I expressed it in the same way because it was a learned behavior. But then when I could think about it, I learned to focus it and channel it in different ways. No, that's, uh, that's so useful to hear. So it sounds as though dedication and devotion at a deeper level is something that you recognize as being important. That younger self, if he, if he had that right from the outset, how important that, that would be. And what about the flip side of, I guess, anger, uh, happiness? Because health and happiness we've talked about go hand in hand, don't they? So when we say happiness, what's your perception of that? What do you think about happiness? I mean, I've always been happy because I've made my— I was in that family environment and there were certain things I couldn't change. I focused, I threw myself into project, I threw myself into what I wanted to do and what I wanted to achieve. And I think happiness is different for everybody, but at the end it's bringing that and taking the steps and making the right choices is, and bringing yourself closer to where you want to be from where you are. And it's that stepwise progression. And for me now, happiness is— I mean, I'm the happiest when I'm around family. Family is really important for me. Every weekend, I mean, we're at home this weekend. And yes, we work hard, and we work hard for a reason. And I love what I do. My happiness is doing what I love doing, not just by myself in isolation, but working in a team who are working together towards common goals. And then, you know, we at Christmas time, we're going to have about 30, 35 people around, and that's where I'm the happiest, you know, with our— we've got the 8th grandchildren come, grandchild. My happy space is around my family and my friends. Yeah. And that's— yeah, yeah. Uh, no, that's— thank you for sharing that because it sounds as though it's, it's knowing what you're happy is that's the most important thing about being happy is first of all know what it is. And for you, you've discovered that. We all discover it is— there is a journey to it, but we discover what is important. But it's what's important in that moment in time, and that can, that can change and evolve and that that's all part of being human, is, is evolving as well. Um, and I guess speaking of evolution as well, just coming all the way back to your specialist field in aging and age reversing, is back to sort of technology then. Um, because I talk a lot about data and devices and the time of our life that we're living in now, that we're really fortunate to be able to access so much. What is the, um, when it comes to reversing technology, what is the thing for you that feels really important? What are we on the cusp of, or what is it that right now you're fully invested in? Well, we're invested in regenerative medicine, and I've written a textbook, and what I've done is I focused it towards regenerative medicine in aesthetics. And that textbook has been taken on by Peking University as part of their medical degree, and, and that's really— it's really heartening to know that, you know, people have read it and have got some use out of it. And it's been translated into Mandarin now. But I think regenerative medicine is the key to managing the aging process. And I think through time and over time, we have— and there was a lot of hype about stem cells, stem cells are the answer, stem cells, stem cells, all that. But But when we really look at what's been happening in the regenerative field and how research and development has been coming along— and last year we had this breaking news that, you know, we can now take skin cells and make them 25 years younger. And how do we do that? Do we do it by injecting stem cells? No, it's not. It's about looking at the hallmarks of aging. There are a certain number of those hallmarks. There are 9 hallmarks, but a number of them we can influence now because of our understanding and because of technological advances that are occurring. One of the things that we can influence is intracellular communications, because one of the key hallmarks is loss of intracellular communication.. And when cells stop communicating, just like, you know, in politics when people stop talking, in families when they stop talking, people disappear. And then you have an anger response to them, almost, you know, why are they there? You don't want to see them. The immune system comes in, it doesn't communicate. We were talking about inflammation earlier. Inflammation is very important to trigger regenerative response, but then when it becomes chronic, it becomes a problem. Them. So inflammation is, is one of the keys to triggering a healing response. And part of healing is regeneration, part of it is repair. And that regenerative side is important. And the more communication we have, the healthier our hormone balances are, healthier our cells are, the better the communication. So what we're looking at and what we're doing right now is looking at the cytokines, which are the communicating proteins, and that create the— a regenerative environment. And that's easy to study because we can study the cytokine environment in embryos, because that's what determines how their stem cells work and their regenerative work. Not just the stem cells, because we know if we take embryonic stem cells and put them into an adult, they don't have the same potency. They have an adult-ish response, slightly better, but have an adult response. So it's not the stem cells, it's the environment. And we now know that you can take stem— you can take skin cells, give those in a petri dish, create the right environment, and they will divide and divide and divide. And they won't divide into older cells with shortening telomeres. They lengthen their telomeres, they regress back to stem cells, and we can even take them back to embryonic stem cells. So by creating the right cytokine environment in somebody. So if I can take a 70-year-old and I create a 30-year-old cytokine healthy environment in them, their cells will regress and they'll be younger, better. And, and that's really where the exciting technology— oh, and it is so exciting. And this is a whole conversation in itself, um, those hallmarks of aging and where we're at right and what we can do to, to influence those. We talked a little bit earlier about genetics and epigenetics as well, and you've mentioned some really exciting things like telomeres and, and stem cells. So we're going to have to have a much deeper conversation about this at another time, Dr. Khan, because this is the stuff that we really do need to start putting our finger on the pulse on, um, because it— we are at that place now where we can live longer and we can live younger at the same time, but we've got to be able to, to harness all of this, and it's within our grasp as well, isn't it? So, um, no, it's been wonderful, wonderful, um, speaking with you. I think we could keep on, keep on chatting, um, but any final words that you'd like to, to leave us with? Tell us what your most useful health-enhancing activity is for yourself. For myself? Yes, for myself. I've gone through a number of sort of awakenings and realizations over the years And during lockdown, we— I really sat down, I thought, right, what are we going to do? The whole world, um, has changed, you know. As soon as lockdown, I knew that things weren't going to be the same anymore, and we had to change the way that we looked and interacted, looked at people, looked at our lives, looked at the economy, looked at our priorities and choices and how we interact with people. And that's when Leslie and I decided— Leslie, my wife, and I decided to start to develop our ideas towards having a retreat, not just giving this advice and supporting people, but bringing people into an environment where we can work with them on a one-to-one or small group basis in order to help educate them and help them to make the right choices. And I think one of the things is, again, communications. I think one of the, the things that will contribute to our wellness is is having open and honest conversations with the people who are really important in our lives. And I think it's, it's a thing that men particularly have. Men don't communicate that well. The men— and I'm talking from my own perspective— the more I talk to Lesley, my wife, the happier I am and the better our lives are, because she has a really positive input for me and I learned so much from her. Like today, I've learned so much from you, from this conversation, you know, just by talking. Yeah, I think about adding, not subtracting, and our knowledge to our happiness and everything. And I think we talk about intracellular communication, what about inter-people communication? We'll be— yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, I love that. So that is a great health hack to, to leave on because we've gone full circle and coming back to Communication is core, and we do that verbally, but we also do that through our expressions as well, don't we? So really important to be able to continue to do that and connect. And it has been wonderful, wonderful connecting with you, and I'm sure we will carry on our conversation off screen as well. And there's a lot that people will have learned from today. So thank you so much, Dr. Khan. It's wonderful to have been in conversation and communication with you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Alta. Wow. Well, that was a dynamic conversation, wasn't it? So much to talk about. Like I said, if you've got two doctors in a room, we know what we want to do. We want to go wide and we want to go deep in the conversations. So we really did do that. But look, here's, here's the question. After listening to all of that, what are your thoughts about age-reversing cosmetic interventions? So think about this. Are you someone who someone who needs to look good to feel good? Or reverse that, are you someone who needs to feel good to look good? It is such an interesting concept to think about, isn't it? And interestingly, what I will share with you is that about 10 years ago, about 10 years ago, I also did my aesthetic training in cosmetics. I trained on Botox and fillers, and I've I was ready to launch my own cosmetic practice, but I stopped in my tracks when I read about the Facial Feedback Hypothesis that you heard us talking about earlier. So how if you paralyse your frown, then your ability to detect emotions in others is affected, and because others can't read your emotional expressions, then you don't get the feedback you need either. Which means that things like anxiety and low mood can be increased. And I think because I didn't want my clients to risk any, any negative alteration in their mood because of any cosmetic interventions, I just didn't launch my cosmetic practice. I literally stopped dead in my track at doing that. But look now, look how far the approach has developed. Dr. Khan explained so, so well, didn't he, that not only how technology has changed so that we're not really talking about freezing emotions and freezing faces anymore, but he also talked about how with natural aging processes, your expressions change because your musculature changes. And so your expressions can then change into expressions that really don't match who you are, that don't fit with your identity, which is then when Botox and fillers can really help you to connect connect back with who you are, connect back with your identity. So are you ready to unlock your health activation code in 3 steps? We've got data, devices, and decisions. Now this week I was in deep conversation with Dr. Amma Khan. You'll know him as cosmetic specialist to the stars. So if you haven't listened to the interview yet, then I I really would suggest that it's well worth the listen simply to tap into Dr. Khan's years of experience where he's been leading the aesthetics and the cosmetic intervention industry. And we talk about a lot of things on the show. We talk about beauty and the skin and the gut and regenerative medicine and the hallmarks of aging as well. So today, for today's health hacks, I'm zoning in on one of the areas we covered in the interview which was talking about the skin microbiome. So more specifically today, I want to talk about how to test it. So what I'll do is I'll cover the effects of the skin microbiome and how to change it and how to treat it in future episodes, because these are big discussion points on their own. But for today, I want to focus very specifically on skin microbiome testing. And why am I doing that? Well, because because you have to test it first in order to be able to treat it. You've, you've got to know where you're starting to know where you want to get to, right? Test and track. So let's get into the Health Hacktivation Code, which is all about using data and devices to make strategic decisions to optimize your health. And I want to do this today with a 3, 2, 1 fun with a 3, 2, 1, go. I will give you 3 pieces of data related to your skin microbiome which are important, then I'll give you 2 devices to use, and then 1 decision to focus on. So that'll be a bit of fun. Um, but before I get going, I just want to give you a quick bit of background and context in relation to the skin microbiome. So what is the skin microbiome? Well, it's definitely an area which has been receiving huge, huge scientific attention because we've been talking about the gut microbiome for, for quite a while now, but attention is now turning to the skin microbiome. So what is it? What is the skin microbiome? Well, think of it as a collective name, an umbrella name for the ecosystem of microorganisms that live on and in beneath the surface of your skin as well. So I'm talking bacteria and fungi, which have a host of essential functions, and they of course come along with all of their genes as well. There's trillions and trillions of them, and conceivably, if you think about it, your skin is the largest organ of your body. Think of this, if it's 15% of your body weight, so it plays a significant part in your health. So it's your very first protective barrier, of course it is, and the most important thing to know is that your skin microbiome, it communicates directly with your immune system. It's a very, very active organ, which means that when you're threatened threatened, when you're threatened, your immune system then produces antimicrobial substances and it produces this through the microbiome that you have that's in your skin and on your skin so that you can then fight pathogens. But here's what you need to know. What you need to know is that because it communicates with your immune system, your skin microbiome then also connects with your body's inflammatory responses. And inflammation, well, you've heard me say this several times on this show, so you'll know my feelings about inflammation. Inflammation is what lies at the root of illness, and not just about playing a part in your skin health, but remember, chronic inflammatory responses— when chronic inflammatory responses are in play, there is a whole cascade of events that potentially then results in chronic illnesses like diabetes and Alzheimer's and depression. And we talked a little bit about depression on the interview with Dr. Amar Khan today as well. But what I do want to do is I just want to preface this con— this, this episode in terms of the research into the skin microbiome, because the research really is very much in its infancy. So it is important for you to remember this when you're testing your skin microbiome. Remember that the research research is in its infancy. But, but, but, but, look, we are health hacktivators here. Well, what does that mean? Well, it means that we're making informed decisions that go beyond waiting for population-level research. Now look, I'm— I love research. I love, love research. It's, uh, it's an underpinning. It underpins scientific evidence, but sometimes it just takes too long to reach you And of course, it's not without its biases as well. And sometimes it's very difficult to extrapolate meaningful information from research studies as well, which means that as a health activator, you need to put yourself at the forefront of what is possible instead of just waiting in line. And my role here, my role is very much to share with you what we know right now, but also to share with you what is possible as well. So let's get into this. Let's get into the data. What data is important to look at when you look at your skin microbiome? So we're going 3, 2, 1, go! So 3 pieces of data. Firstly, firstly, microbiome diversity. What's microbiome diversity? Well, this is a different variety of bacteria and fungi that are on your skin. So look at how varied the population is. Is one species more prominent than another? So when you're looking at your data overall, the more diverse your skin microbiome, then the stronger the link is to positive health outcomes. Now remember as well, what I said is that we're still in the early stages of research, so we don't really know what exactly, what constitutes a healthy skin microbiome. So there aren't really any target numbers to aim for at the moment in terms of a population of this bacteria or that bacteria, but what we know is important to aim for right now is diversity. The more diverse, the better. It's the second thing. Second thing when looking at your Skin Microbiome data is to know where your sample is taken from and then to interpret your data and understand your data with that in mind. So here, think about 3 distinct zones in your skin: dry, moist, and sebaceous. And the reason for thinking about these 3 different areas is that different species of fungi and bacteria will have a preference for different locations, so you need to be sure to match the interpretation of your data to the location of your sample. So let me give you an example. So when you've got a bacteria like Corynebacterium, it thrives in areas where you sweat, so areas like your forehead or under your arms. Proteobacteria— it's another bacteria— Proteobacteria, on the other hand, it's much more suited to form more dry skin, so areas like the inside of your forearm, for example. And then other bacteria like Staphylococcus, it's a more commonly known one, that tends to congregate in areas where you've got high pH and high humidity, so places like your elbow creases and your knee creases. So really important, that's the second thing, is think about knowing where that data is coming from, where the sample's been taken from. So third thing, third thing when you're looking at your data is to make sure that you understand its significance. Now, what do I mean by that? Well, let me give you another example. For example, say you found on your testing to have lots of Corynebacterium acnes. So that's a bacteria that's known to be associated with acne, but what you need to know is that not all Corynebacterium acnes strains are problematic. There's only certain ones that are, and at the moment some tests don't really have the precision to identify specific strains. So you might find out that you've got a lot of Corynebacterium agnes on your skin, which might indicate a problem, or it might indicate that there's no problem and these are all great strains that are very beneficial for you. So you might end up with more questions than answers when you look at your raw data, which is why data interpretation is so, so important, and which is why it really is useful to look at your data with a specialist in a clinical clinical context as well. Because I see, I see a lot of clients who buy off-the-shelf commercial tests and then they're just stuck. They're just stuck with, what do I do next? And unfortunately, most doctors just don't get enough training regarding the skin. Medical school, we got at tops, what, a week? A week of dermatology training. And yet over 30% of GP consultations, they relate directly to the skin, which doesn't make any sense, does it? Which is exactly why then I went on and did very, very extensive postgraduate dermatology training, got even more letters behind my name, which means that I am here. So please, please, please do get in touch with me for specialist interpretation of your results when and if— no, if and when, when you take your skin microbiome testing. So my email is in the show notes, so you know how to get in direct contact with me as well. So that's 3 areas to consider when looking at your skin microbiome data. Now let's have a look at devices. So how, how can you test your skin microbiome? So here are 2 devices that I have looked at in terms of testing and I go into them in a lot more detail in my blog on testing the skin microbiome. So just make sure that you have a read of that as well, and I'll pop the link for that in the show notes as well. So the first device, the first test, is a test that's done by the Skin Trust Club, and what this test does is it uses a combination of very advanced sequencing technologies as well as artificial intelligence algorithm. And it gives you an estimate of what they call your microbiome balance score. So it's one of those to-do-at-home swab tests, and you do the swab from the outer part of your cheek. And the reason that in this test they use your cheek is because it's considered to be an area that's most exposed to the environment. Now, we're not talking in depth about this today, but there are a number of factors which affect your skin microbiome, but just to give you a little flavor: age, for example, your skin microbiome constantly changes and evolves as you age. There's gender as well that has an influence, so there's hormonal differences between men and women which produce different microbiomes in men and women. Temperature, your skin microbiome will be different in different climates and different temperatures. Genetics, you your DNA is very, very important. It's an incredibly important contributor to the health of your skin as well. Diet— we all love talking about food, and food has got an important effect on your— how your microbiome shows up as well. And then of course also environment. So what is in your environment, air quality, what products you're using on your skin, how often you're washing— this is all going to make a difference to the types of microbiome that live more permanently on your skin and also more transiently in your skin as well. So with the test, you take the sample, you send back the kit, and you get a report. And the report gives you a score out of 100 and is also linked to an app as well so that it lets you continue to track your skin microbiome and gives you info such as the UV exposure and the pollution range of the environment that you're in. So that is the Skin Trust Club test. Second, the second device, the second test is the Elsa Juggmann kit. Again, I'm going into more detail in this in my blog, so do have a read, but this sample is analyzed with next-generation sequencing. It's a, it's a particular technique, and this sample is taken from your forehead, and the report, what it does is it gives you an overview overview of the top 10 bacteria and fungi on your skin's surface. So you'll get a diversity score, and this score doesn't range to 100, it ranges from -2 to +2, and it's based very much on the abundance of different bacteria and fungi on the skin, what are classed as disruptive, bad, unknown, good, or beneficial. So those are just two devices, two test kits that you can look at, and I'll put the links in the notes as well so you can have a look at that in more detail as well. So we've got data, devices, and now decisions. The decision for you now is, do I have a home test of my skin microbiome or not? Is it worth it? Is it a gimmick? Is it too early to test? Is it helpful? So my first answer to that is if you have any skin complaints or skin conditions, then absolutely yes to testing. Eczema, psoriasis, acne, rosacea—test your skin microbiome so that you understand really what is or isn't supporting your skin, so that you've got a way of tracking then the impact of changes to your skin that you make when you make very targeted changes to your skin routine. So that's a yes. But secondly, what if you don't have any direct skin concerns? Well, let's think here about learning from what we know about the gut microbiome and the wide impact that the gut microbiome has on our health. And it's exactly the same with the skin microbiome. There are wider implications to your health as well. So gut microbiome testing is now much more understood, and skin microbiome testing is catching up. So why not just stay ahead of the game, right? The more insights that you have into your biodata, of course, the more data then you've got to work with, which will take you beyond guesswork. You've got real-time personalized data to work with. So yes, yes, yes, test, test, test, and and look, aren't you, aren't you curious anyway? Aren't you curious to know what is renting out space on your skin? Now look, I, I do believe that everyone should be empowered to learn about the science of their skin, and I believe that you should have the information that you need to choose how you take care of, hey, the largest organ of your body. So as I've said, I've put all the links to tests and my blog as well, with more information on it on the show notes as well. So do, do, do please take a look and, and let's get this skin microbiome testing underway and give you those insights into your data so that you can make decisions with much more precision as well. So I hope you have enjoyed today's unlocking of your health activation code, and I wish you a health activating day. Thank you for Thank you for listening to Health Hacktivators. If you have enjoyed this episode, then please support the show by leaving us a 5-star review wherever you get your podcasts and by sharing this episode with a friend. Don't forget to click the link in the show notes right now to find out more details about what was covered in this episode and to connect with Dr. Alka Patel in order to take your strategic self-care to the next level. Thank you for listening to Health Hacktivators. Health Activators with me, Dr. Alka Patel, on the Women's Radio Station. I'd love you to stay connected through the socials. You can find me @DrAlkaPatelUK, and to learn more about the Women's Radio Station, do give them a follow too on their socials @WomensRadioStn.