In this candid episode, Dr. Alka Patel sits down with life coach Nicke Feeney to explore the hidden epidemic of loneliness—even within relationships. Nicke shares his raw journey from burnout, substance abuse, and a crumbling marriage to becoming a thriving life coach and bestselling author. A decade ago, Nicke hit rock bottom, experiencing profound disconnection from himself, his marriage, and those around him. Despite being in a 23-year relationship, he felt utterly alone—a feeling he describes as the most awful he’s ever experienced. The turning point came when he realized his unhealthy coping mechanisms and emotional unavailability were affecting his children, prompting him to make difficult but transformative life changes.
This conversation dives deep into the nuanced differences between loneliness, social isolation, and solitude—distinctions many of us fail to recognize in our modern world. Nicke reveals the powerful parenting philosophy he now shares with his children: the importance of building a secure sense of self before seeking validation from others. Drawing on insights from his coaching practice, he challenges the common belief that parents should “make” their children happy, arguing instead that this dynamic strips away personal power and agency. The episode ultimately becomes a masterclass in understanding connection, self-awareness, and the courage it takes to rebuild your life when it’s burning down around you.
Main Topics
Loneliness in relationships occurs when there is fundamental disconnection and poor communication patterns—you can feel utterly alone while lying next to your partner
The distinction between loneliness (feeling alone despite social contact), social isolation (lack of social connection), and solitude (comfortable aloneness) is critical for mental health
Awareness and recognition that your current behavior doesn't align with your values is often the first step toward meaningful change and transformation
Healthy parenting involves teaching children to find happiness within themselves rather than becoming dependent on others to create happiness for them
Substance abuse and destructive behaviors are often masks for underlying emotional disconnection and unhappiness that require deeper healing
Building a secure relationship with yourself—knowing who you are and being comfortable in your own company—is foundational to healthy relationships with others
Making short-term difficult decisions for long-term benefit (like ending a marriage) can ultimately serve everyone involved, including children
Full TranscriptYou're listening to Health Hacktivators with me, Dr. Alka Patel, on the Womanz radio station. Welcome to Health Hacktiva...▼
You're listening to Health Hacktivators with me, Dr. Alka Patel, on the Womanz radio station. Welcome to Health Hacktivators with lifestyle medicine doctor, GP, and longevity expert Dr. Alka Patel. This show will help you to discover a hidden health hacking code that unlocks your phenomenal potential for an outstanding healthspan, lifespan, and wealthspan. The show features candid conversations with celebrities, influencers, and industry icons, real-life stories, and cutting edge health activating advice that other doctors might not tell you. Discover why now is the time to join the strategic self-care revolution and experience the profound effects this will have on your personal and professional success. Now here is your host, Dr. Alka Patel. Hi, hey, and hello, health activators! For today's show, I am joined by Nick Feeney, the life coach who helps men with a midlife reset so they can avoid a midlife crisis. Now, Nick has been he's married since 2017 to the very beautiful Andrea McLean, who we know as one of the former anchorwomen on Loose Women, of course. And now together they have founded This Girl, This Guy, which we will be hearing more about on this show. Today we are talking connection and loneliness. Before we get into today's conversation, please do support today's show sponsor, Youth and Earth. Youth and Earth have a range of products that I love to use myself to to supercharge my metabolism, to support my health, and to slow down cellular aging. So just be sure you click the link in the show notes for exclusive offers which Youth and Earth are so generously giving only for listeners of this show. We are live. Amazing. Great. Well, hello, hello, Nick. It is wonderful to have you here. Uh, Alka, thank you so much for inviting me along to your podcast. Um, I'm super excited to have this conversation. For sure. It's gonna be a, a really exciting conversation, I know that. So look, this is what I want to kick off with. We can see in your background, this girl is on fire, but for you, your hashtag is #thisguyisonfire, isn't it? But what I really want to catch on is really, I guess it would be fair to say that you haven't always been this guy on fire. I wonder if the opposite has been true, right? You've been this guy that's burning out. I know you've gone from 6 figures to losing your business to being diagnosed with heart problems, and then hitting what I tend to call this dreaded 3D brick wall. So this 3D brick wall of drink, of drugs, and of divorce. So if I may, Nick, I would like to take you back there, if that's okay, to that time. Yeah, yeah, of drink and drugs and divorce, if that, if that's right. Because what I really want to zone in on is Really, probably underlying all of it is this 4th D, that 4th D of disconnection. Mm-hmm. And I know you've talked about this before, loneliness. So let's go back there. You're lonely even though you're in a relationship. Tell us about that, Nick. Mm-hmm. Well, firstly, this is actually my wife's office I'm in. That's why I said this girl is on fire. The This Guy Is On Fire office is in the other room, but I'm actually using her computer today. But yeah, Loneliness in a relationship, all those things that you said, um, were about 10, 11 years ago in my life, and, um, disconnected, most definitely disconnected with myself, with my life, with my then marriage, um, and that loneliness is probably the most awful feeling I've ever had, where you're in a relationship, and that particular relationship was 23 and a bit years, And I never felt so lonely, even laying in the bed next to my first wife. And it's because we are completely disconnected. We'd had conversations, we tried sorting some things out, but it's really fascinating when you get to that point that you think you're saying something and they hear something completely different. But actually, you're both right and you're both wrong, um, because neither of you are listening correctly. Neither of you are being able to, to converse in a way that isn't sort of vilifying the other person, or, you know, because everything is just not right at that moment in your life. And, uh, for me, When I got to that point of all those other things that you talked about, I mean, I can go into those things, you know, the drinking, the drugs, um, were a way of me masking my unhappiness. And most of this, by the way, is when you're in it, you don't realize it. You're just doing it. You think you're coping. You— everything's okay, you think, you know, and, and you just keep pushing through and you just drink more and take more drugs and carry on down that slippery path. But I think for me, when the disconnect became so disconnected and I started to show traits of someone who, A, I definitely never wanted to be, and which therefore made me incredibly unhappy with who I was, thankfully I realized there was no amount of drink or drugs or disowning any of my sort of issues that were going on led to anything good. So I knew I had to make some decisions to change. And as you said, I wasn't always, as we say, this guy's on fire. I was burning out. And I think there's always that one thing that you remember that made you go, right, I'm changing, this needs to change. And it's never just that one thing, it's the culmination of all those other things, but it's the one thing that pushes you over the edge, isn't it? And for me, that was actually shouting at my children and for simple things. And then my then wife and myself, we would start each day so stressed. That it wouldn't take much for us to, you know, go into an explosive row. And on one particular time, myself and my wife are physically grabbing each other, and it's like, no, this is just not what I'm meant to be. And there's my two beautiful girls looking at us, trying to break us apart, and that was just, right, whatever it takes, it's gotta change. Gosh, thank you, Nick, for just being so open in your share of that and going back to those 10, 12, 13 years ago, because life takes you on a journey, doesn't it? But if we just stick to that connection piece for a minute, you mentioned your, your beautiful children as well, and this all goes back to childhood, doesn't it? Those first cries of the baby, and there's a way of connecting the mother responds, the father responds, the baby recognizes that if they call out, then their needs are going to be met. And then this follows us into adulthood as well. That as babies, we learn that we're gonna be heard and we're gonna be seen and we're gonna be loved if we— if there's someone who comes when we need them. And then as we turn into adults, we've got to keep tuning in to exactly those signals from each other, that kind of sense of, "I'm important enough for you to notice me." I'm important enough for you to care for me, to be safe with you, to be secure for you. And when that changes, that, that intuition, that sense of exactly as you said, who you are, what you mean to each other, just turns topsy-turvy. And from what you're saying, that first step was awareness for you, wasn't it? Just noticing that this is how I'm showing up and I don't want this. Yeah, well, you know, what you describe, you would think would be a very natural progression for most people, but it isn't, is it? You know, and there's lots of parents that are just slightly older version of the children themselves, and there is a lot of immaturity in those young relationships. I think I was very lucky that although my childhood, there were times that we didn't have lots of money, there were lots of us as well. I'm one of 8 and we were a blended family. There was, there was a lot of love in the house and whilst there wasn't any, there wasn't a huge amount of tactile love, you know, I cannot remember my mum cuddling me, for example. And that led to me having my own sort of issues of looking for love. But one thing I was absolutely certain is that when my children come along, they will know what love is. They will feel love. And so I was always a hands-on dad. I love being a dad. I love now being a dad. Me and my daughters, got two beautiful girls and I've got a beautiful stepdaughter, like 16, 17, 20, and a stepson who's 21. I love my relationship with them. Uh, I love watching them grow up and, and mature and the conversations and the experiences that we have. And back then, I always wanted to be a great dad. And I think the biggest wrench for me was in my head, I always had this image of the happy ever after. Me, their mum, them two, we get old, they get older, they have children, all that. And it was when that was sort of becoming very clear that that was not going to happen, that I knew that, again, like I say, I had to make changes. And knowing that I wouldn't see them every morning for breakfast was awful, but I knew they were not getting the dad I was capable of being. And that's what drove me to, to make a short-term tough decision for the long-term benefit of all of us. Yeah. So what do you say to your children? What do you teach your children when it comes to conversations about connection and disconnection? And more specifically, what you're raising, which is really about loneliness, isn't it? It's that feeling of being alone. You describe lying in your bed next to your partner, but still feeling alone. You can be at a party surrounded by people, and still feel very, very alone. So what, what conversation do you have? Because there is a distinction, isn't there, Nick, between loneliness, which is feeling alone despite social contact, there's social isolation, which we've all been through, we've been connected through that through COVID, which is that lack of social connection, but there's also solitude, where you can feel the comfort of being alone. So what do you teach your children? Uh, you know, the conversations we have is actually more around the solitude, is, is you need to be comfortable in your own company, and you need to, you really need to get to know who you are. Um, you know, we, we watch a lot of, um, RuPaul's Drag Race and he has this saying at the end, whereas, you know, if you can't love yourself, who else is going to love you? And so we're very lucky, um, you know, I'm an accredited life coach and mentor, so is my wife. That is what our business is about. We, you know, we coach hundreds and hundreds of men and women, and what's great is through those conversations, we have those conversations with our children, and it's that importance of of owning your own power on all these things about happiness, loneliness, getting comfortable with that. If you have a boyfriend, you want them, you don't need them. And one of the things that I learned, it was 2007, and it was one of my coaches back then said to me, and it was about my then wife, he said, I know you want your wife to be happy, but it's not your job to make her happy. That's something she has to do herself. And through that conversation, it spurred on loads of other little conversations. And to this day, I had a conversation recently with a coaching client where he said, I tell my daughter my job is to make you happy, and blah, blah, blah. And I said, look, I said, well, that's great, you want her to be happy. I said, you're taking away her power. To make herself happy. And I know you want to do stuff that makes her happy, and that's great, but do not take away her power. And he's, oh my God, I never thought about it like that. And it's because of these things that we've been through, same with loneliness, like I say, it's making sure that they take the power that they have to go, I choose to be alone, I choose to find myself, I choose to go on holiday myself or go on this journey by myself so that when I come back, I can enjoy you I can enjoy my life even more. And this is what we teach them. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I love that it is back to responsibility and where does that sit. And as much as we wish we had the power to make people do what we want them to do and be who we are and be just like us, we absolutely don't have that. But the power is here, isn't it, for everything that you take responsibility for, for yourself. And really important in that conversation about solitude and doing things for yourself because there's a lot of data now, Nick, around the health impact of social isolation and disconnect as well. And we're talking about the hardcore physical illnesses as well. There's a 29% increased risk of heart disease if you feel socially alone and a 32% increased risk of stroke. Now these are not small numbers, these are, these are big numbers. Your rates of depression, anxiety, suicide are much higher if you're feeling lonely and socially disconnected. But there's a big The flip side to that is people who value themselves, who feel as connect to themselves, have got much higher rates of happiness, fulfillment, much lower rates of illness and disease, both kind of physical and emotional as well. Because there's a real connect, there's a part of your brain, that's the same part in fact that lights up when you suffer with physical pain, that lights up when you suffer with social pain, that social isolation. So, it's so important. I love that what you're teaching and what you're representing about that sense that, that solitude is different, this understanding of yourself, because this is really critical to your work with men as well, isn't it? So maybe let's talk a little bit about the male-female difference a little bit. I know you're sitting pretty in pink in the background there with, uh, this girl is on fire, but, um, what's been your experience with, with coaching men who have a very different way of communicating in some situations, don't they? So tell me about your experience with that. Do you know what's fascinating is ultimately, we're all human beings, and once we get past— so, with the coaching we do with women, we can do one-to-many, because as you know, women will quite happily have a conversation in a small group, in a big group, and share what they're feeling, thinking, and all that. So, that's great. Men, Not so much. So I do a lot more one-to-one coaching with men. But what I'm finding is that when, when men make that decision that they're going to fix themselves or fix a problem, as they call it, and we know that it's not fixing, but this is how they come into my world. They really buy into it. And it's— I was saying to someone today, actually, When men don't talk, the moment they cross that threshold and start talking, you can't shut them up. And it's almost like a weight is lifted off them because they realize all this ego that's been stopping them from admitting how they think or feel or how life is out of control, or they don't quite know what they're doing. The moment they start talking about that, they realize that all those things, that judging or what they thought might happen or something, didn't happen and it's okay. And then they just start going, well, there's this, there's this, there's this, there's this. And I just, I want to really just encourage more and more men to just be curious about what if I did actually pull down this mask that I'm wearing and let someone know that I'm not quite sure of myself. 'Or I'm not quite sure what's going on,' or 'I've got a question.' And I don't know if you, when you were at school, our teacher would say, 'The most stupid question is the one you don't ask.' And that's— Yeah, I think the teachers still say that. Nothing's changed. Yeah, and, but it resonates with me because actually, just asking that question, and, but more importantly, speaking to someone, your friends unfortunately aren't always the best, especially in male groups. There's a lot more banter because while you may be curious and happy to start talking about something that's not quite working for you, the person receiving it may not be, um, ready to have that conversation or even know what to do with what you're asking. So this is why I think the work that I do in the community of men that I, I help. Um, I'm really enjoying it. And one of the things that is going to happen a lot more next year is I'm working with corporations a lot, so I can have this conversation with many men, uh, in their corporate environment, rather than just waiting for one man to come to me, then another man, because this, this is the problem. It's only me and my time, and there's only so many hours in the day. So it's, it's finding ways that I can say what I say to my individual clients, uh, to many more people and get them curious and open-minded and, and up for letting go. Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, you've reminded me actually of a, of a patient that I once saw, um, man in suit, hardly ever came to see, uh, see me as his doctor. Pitches up one day out of the blue, um, sits down and says, I've got a sore throat and obviously checked him out. Nothing, nothing too dramatic going on there, but I just knew instinctively he hadn't come about his sore throat. Now, you know, I'm sure you've been to your GP, there's kind of 10 minutes on the clock and it's, you know, see you later, but I just couldn't do this here and I was really open with him and I said, 'You haven't come about your sore throat, tell me what it is,' and exactly what you've just said, outpoured all of this sense of me, the man, I'm going to work, I'm earning for my family, I've got to keep the roof over my head, my daughter is very, very unwell and I want to be with her and yet I've got to go out and fulfill this role as the husband and as the father figure and as the breadwinner. And it all came pouring out, but until someone asked him the question, tell me what's really going on, he would have held that. And sometimes that's what it takes, it just takes someone to ask the question, but more importantly, please wait for the answer. Because we often say to people, Hey, how you doing? How you, is everything okay? How are you? You don't even hear the fine before you've gone on to the next question or walked away, but you have to stop and you have to pause and you have to wait for the response. And some of that is about also showing some of your own vulnerability in that conversation as well, isn't it? Well, I think this is what I love about the fact that I'm a coach and a mentor, because the way I see coaching is, All my clients, they have the answers inside them. So I just get them asking themselves better questions. Okay. But with the mentor inside, I can use the experiences that I've had and the people that I've worked with. And I, you know, I do get to work with some incredible industry leaders. And, you know, my job every day is to learn more and just keep paying it forward. So I love that about what we do. And it's just Sometimes just being aware that when you do do this is they just want to sometimes have you listen, not necessarily give an opinion or try and sort it out for them. And what I find with when I have these conversations with the— when people come and see me, it's like that first 10 minutes in the, in the your surgery. They dance around. How's your week? Ah, you know, and talk about this. And you go, right, so tell me what's really going on. And it's those final couple of minutes that they then go, hmm, and start blurting everything out. And then you start working out, okay, is this a rant? Is this something? And I say to them, do you want me to listen or do you want me to help? And again, I just want you to listen this time. Because they just need to get it off. They just need to get it out there. And sometimes just by saying it helps them hear it differently rather than how they hear it in here. But no, I just, I just find that, that, that coaching and mentoring fascinating. And, and like I said, how men, like in your surgery, we're good at pretending everything's great over here, and then, then you just ask them that one more time, or that tell me what's really going on, and then they're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there is a bit of a disconnect here, isn't there, um, Nick, as well? Um, and maybe this is something to debate, but women having conversations with women, men having conversations with, with men, you've got this girl is on fire, this guy is on fire, and yet if we don't hear each other's conversations, going back right at the beginning of what we're talking about, we're never going to solve the disconnection in relationships, in partnerships, in couples, are we? So where's the space for the listening to understand that happens cross-gender rather than the isolation? And I completely understand why we do the separation and why that also fulfills a need of being able to be more open, but there's also a harm there, isn't there? Well, I think if you— and by the way, great question. I think that if you have this absolute separation and disconnect, as you call it, then that is very harmful. But one of the things that we do in our coaching, so for example, I will coach the men. My coaching is all based around midlife, okay, and the issues that men have, the struggles that they go through, and a large part of that is understanding their wife. And menopause and what their wife is going through. So by having a conversation with a man about what their wife is going through, so they understand, so they're not just saying silly stuff like, 'Oh my gosh, she's crazy, I don't know what's going on,' actually empathizing and understanding and trying to learn more about what's going on so they can support them better. Um, that's something that we've been doing for a while, but, um, next year and we've already got a few things lined up. We're actually taking this girl, this guy, on the road and we're doing some events where it is for male and female. So for the first time, our female members can bring their partners, their male partners, their male colleagues, their brothers with them. So actually you can hear both sides of the story because like you were saying, this disconnect— if we're looking after one here and one here, but they're not speaking to each other and sharing and empathizing with each other as to what's going on, you are going to have an even bigger disconnect than what we have at the moment. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Well, that's music to my ears that you're doing that, because that was probably exactly where I was trying to go with this, is that, you know, we've got to also bring us all together as well, which is so, so important. So I'm looking forward to that, to that roadshow. Is it you and And Andrea, both of you, is it? So yeah, so I mean, there's actually a couple of things that we've got lined up. We're launching our, um, we're launching a show on YouTube, uh, and, uh, that should be in the spring. You're the first hearing about this, by the way. So it's like outside of our team, no one knows this, uh, and, uh, so, so that's happening in spring, uh, and then we will take that that show on the road, and we'll go to a few venues around the UK. And then there is also very, very, very near to signing on a book talking about exactly this. So yeah, it's important. It's incredibly important. I love that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it totally is. So that has got me even more excited for your work, Nick, as well. You heard it here first, everybody. That is true. There's a book and a roadshow and a YouTube channel. So, um, yeah, we'll definitely put all of that information into the show notes for everyone as well, Nick, because this is all hugely important, isn't it? And, um, I love that, that kind of focus on midlife as well. But let me ask you a question then. What is midlife? I want to hear your— I want a number, right? When we talk about midlife, what number in terms of age are you talking to, talking about? Um, okay. I'm going to give you a number, but I don't see midlife as a number. So when it happened for me was 39, but I've just coached a 29-year-old who's gone through his own crisis, as we call it, and he goes, "I'm not in midlife, but oh my God, I need your help." I think the thing is midlife, if we look at how statistically we're going to— well, men in the UK live to the age of 80, so midlife is 40. But I think the thing with men is they spend a little bit longer holding on to that inner child that they still are, and therefore it just varies with men depending on what happens in life, what is happening to them right now. If everything's going great, they don't see midlife happening till God knows when. I had a 56-year-old guy come up to me and he said, "Oh my God, I think I'm having a midlife crisis, but I'm a bit late to the party." party. And these were his words. I'm like, you know, I said, well, tell me what's happened and why you're saying that. And it's because that midlife crisis tends to be something impactful that happens, certainly for men, where they might lose someone of similar age, they might lose something that they've been doing a while, it might be a job change, it might be something huge to do with their identity, and they start feeling lost. Or alone, as we've spoken about earlier. And it's those moments that they start then second-guessing. And going back to if it's— they've lost someone, as in that person that they knew has died, they then start taking life a little bit seriously and realizing that life is actually finite, not one big party and they can do anything to their body or to themselves and they'll be fine. And they start asking themselves different questions. So, that to me is midlife, but for me that happened at 39. Okay, so two really, really interesting things that you've said there. So, um, oh, where can I start? Right, I'm going to start with the number. So, um, you may or may not know, but on this show my mission is to help 1 million people live their potential for a 1 million hour life. Mm-hmm. So, I know a lot of people get their calculators out at this point. That is 116 years, and I absolutely I absolutely believe that we are able to do that right here, right now, because of everything that we have in our fingertips and everything people are going to be hearing about and have already heard about on this show, which then makes the number, the midway of that, 58. So you're, you know, your, your little client was, was on to something there. So that's where I want to kind of set a number. But really interestingly, I don't know if you realize you did this, but The moment I asked you about midlife, you associated that with midlife crisis, and you gave me the number that the crisis happens. So why that association? That's what we need to unplug, that midlife isn't about the crisis, because the moment we keep that association, we keep playing into that, right? But it's really, really interesting that you did that. So now, now I've called you out on doing that, tell me what was going on in your mind when you, when you even said that. That? Well, I think it goes back to what my statement I was saying earlier. I mean, firstly, sign me up to your million club because I'm up for that. 116 years sounds awesome. But here's the thing, certainly speaking from my own experience, age has never bothered me as a number. So I turned 50 this year and some people are like, oh, you get all the jokes and bits and pieces. And it just, it is a measure of time. It has never bothered me. When I turned 30, 40, 50, it never bothered me. But I never looked at myself in an ageing process until my life had its car crash moment. I lost my business, I lost my health, I lost my marriage and everything. And that's when I started looking at midlife, my life, in the middle of my life. And that's why I associated it with crisis. Now, my goal is I work with clients whose lives are actually great, and I want their life to be even greater. So I do it from a position of strength. One of the things I talk about a lot, so myself and Andrea, we, we go and see a marriage counsellor, but our marriage is amazing, but we do it from a position of strength. And this is one thing that we're trying to get across in our messaging to people, is the whole point of This Guy's on Fire is I want to save you the years I went through by not recognizing the signs, or the things that I had to change that were not working for me in that part of my life. And if you can do that before they start costing you, whether that's physically, emotionally, mentally, financially, whatever that cost is, then I know that I've done a great job. Because like I said, I, I ignored every sign, and I knew things weren't right, but I didn't know what to do about it. And then all of a sudden it came crashing down. So if I can save people all that pain, all that— I mean, I was depressed for 4 years after everything. And it was a very, very difficult time in my life, but I always knew that I had to get help. I always— once I crashed, I went to see this amazing therapist and coach, and I saw her for 2 and a half years, every week for 2 and a half years. Best investment I ever, ever made. And I had loads of things going on, and she said to me, 'How are you coping with everything that you've got going on? Because you have got a lot going on.' Some people come to me with just one of these things. How are you coping? It's because I knew my now wasn't forever, and I knew with her guidance and with the tools she could give me, I could get through this. And as difficult it felt at that time, as much as it hurt at the time, I just knew that there'd be better days ahead of me, basically. And, and I made a promise to myself that the day I moved out of my marital home to be a better person and to do whatever it took to be a better person. So taking what you said, if I can show people how to be better even if things are good already, how amazing would that be? So actually, midlife just becomes a wonderful time of their life where they made a few changes and really embraced it, really enjoyed it, stopped looking back and trying to be that 20-year-old. I haven't got the body of the 20-year-old. I, I don't do that anymore. Well, that's because you're not that person anymore. Be who you are right now and grow into who you're going to be. And that's, that's how I want to change that. That. So ask me that in a few years' time and I might give you a very different answer because I'm finally getting, getting it across. Yeah, yeah. And I will ask you that in a few years' time because the conversation changes, doesn't it? These conversations are designed to evolve and that's the most interesting thing. But it's really interesting what you said there is that, you know what, in the UK everybody has a doctor. They all do. Everyone has a doctor. You go over the pond, you're across the Atlantic, everyone has a doctor, a therapist, and a coach. And yet here in the UK, it's like, "I don't need a therapist because that, that's a sign that I'm not good enough or that I need someone, and that's not me." A coach? I don't need a coach. I can do this on my own. But the fundamental truth is, is that, that wrap of doctor, coach, therapist— and fortunately for me, I've qualified and trained in all three, which is such a beautiful, privileged place to be in. I can't tell you how incredible it is to be able to offer exactly what you've said, because you've experienced that difference that a therapist makes to you. You've experienced the difference a coach can make, and you've utilized that now to, to help others as well. And I think that's so, so important, is that those titles— and you can call them titles— but what sits behind that is the need that we all have for a critical friend, for a cheerleader, for an accountability partner, for someone to help with us reshape our beliefs, to give us a sense that there is a different way, a new way. And exactly as you said, there's this phenomenal potential that is just waiting to be unlocked. But there's quotes, aren't there? You know, if you always look at things the way you look at them, you'll always see them the way you see them. You've got to have a kind of shift of perspective and lens, and that's that kind of, that connection. The coach, the therapist, the doctor, all of that give you that blend. So I'm so, so glad that you're, you've kind of gone on this journey for yourself as well. And as painful as it sounds, as though it wasn't, you know, thank you for sharing how hard the depression was, because I think that's important for people to hear, is that that journey has got you to this place where you now are this guy on fire and are going to be helping other guys to, to be on fire as well. And I just, just love that. So amazing. It definitely fascinates me how we are in the UK, that we still have this— we still resist seeing the benefits of a coach. Yeah. So my daughter, this weekend we did vision boarding doing, all 3 daughters were sat down and myself, and we were doing the vision board for next year. And 2 of them have coaches, and for various, for different reasons, but they have coaches. And my middle girl has always been against the idea of having a coach, and the reason being is when I was going through, um, just before we got divorced and we were trying to sort out our marriage, we all went to family coaching and, um, and it didn't work. So, she has got this, um, thought process that coaching doesn't work because it didn't save our family unit. And I, I've always I always try to steer into having a coach, but in a very gentle, sideways way, let her come to her own decision. And when we were doing the vision boarding, she wrote 4 things down, and a lot of them were around self-esteem. And it was the perfect time for me to go, "This is brilliant, because you can put all 4 of these together." and package it as a coach, because these things can be worked on for you. And my oldest daughter was there, and she said, you need to speak to my coach, she's amazing, she's helped me with this, helped me with that. And Sienna said, ah, I don't want a coach, I don't want a coach. I said, but Sienna, I said, you've had coaches before. I said, what? No, I haven't. I said, I said, all your dance classes, all your street dance, your tap, your ballet, they're all coaches. I said, you're only going to know more by getting someone who knows it to share it with you. I said, so you want these things, so you need to go to someone that's got these dance moves that can show you the tools and steps that you need to take to be able to pull off this choreography. So long story short, she's now having her first chat with the coach, um, next week, uh, and gonna start having a coach moving forward into, into 2023. And I think, I don't know why we have it, but the more we can get the message out there that we all use coaches anyway— driving instructors, job training, all those things— so actually, why have individual coaches that can stop us feeling so bloody lousy about ourselves and actually help us get what we're trying to get out of this one life that we have. Yeah, yeah, no, it's a, it's a powerful thing. I think the sadness is that unfortunately on social media, I mean, you'll have seen this, everybody's a coach. There's a course you can do and be a coach in 3 days, and because it's so unregulated, you really don't know what value, what benefit, what gift you're getting from the coach that you, that you do sign up to or, or feel attracted to. And, but it's like any therapeutic relationship, whether it's between a doctor and a patient, a therapist and their client, between a coach and a coachee, is it's all about the relationship, which takes us all the way full circle back to the beginning of our conversation about connection, right? And that's the important thing, is we've got to focus on connecting. Mm-hmm. So important. This has been a wonderful, wonderful conversation. I think we could keep going, couldn't we? But we're gonna, we're gonna need to wrap it up somehow. So I What final words would you like to leave today? I would just like to say, I'm a massive believer that what you're, what you're saying, that million hours, I'm a true believer that we can certainly live to well over 100, and healthily. There are so many things out there that will help us do that anyway. But even by taking control and ownership of the bits that we can do, um, is something that I'm a massive, massive fan on. Last thing, quickfire, and we will wrap this up. So I'm just gonna say a few words, a word, and I just want you to give me kind of the first thought that comes in your mind. Okay. So, um, first word is health. Let's go. Health. Um, lifestyle. Oh, I love that, my fave word, well done, Nick. Success. Family. Ooh, intriguing. And finally, happiness. Inside job. Oh, with all of that, I know I'm gonna have to have you back on this show again because there's stuff there that I really want to get into even more with you. So, amazing, look, thank you, Nick, you have given us some really important insights today. You've shared some of your own vulnerabilities, which is so, so important. You've told us about your work and, uh, and Andrea's work as well. So really looking forward to sharing that and championing that with you guys as well. So thank you so much. Uh, listen, thank you for having me on, and let's, let's keep talking because I'm sure there's lots of things that we can, uh, support each other but also just learn from each other. And it's been a great conversation, and thank you for including me in your Are you ready to unlock your health activation code in 3 steps? Data, devices, decisions. Now, after my conversation with Nick Feeney this week, I'm now taking a deeper look at loneliness. Now, there's this book, a book by John Cacioppo. He's an American neuroscientist, and the book is called Loneliness. Great title. And in the book, what John suggests is that loneliness developed for important evolutionary reasons. Reasons, to remind us that as social beings we must seek the company of others and to remind us that we're safer together. So just go back to ancestral times. You know that the only way you'd survive in a cave was by being with others to keep a watch whilst you slept. It makes sense, right? Now, now look, we all, we all feel pangs of loneliness at some moments in our lives, don't we? Feeling lonely at any particular moment is, is an expression of being human. But think of it another way. Think of it as pain. So physical pain, physical pain protects us from physical danger. You know, you touch something hot, you retaliate. You're not going to want to touch that hot dangerous thing again, are you? And it's the same with social pain. Social pain aka loneliness, protects us from social dangers, from the social dangers of isolation. Now I mentioned this in my conversation with Nick as well, is that the same areas of the brain, the dorsal anterior cingulate, those areas light up when we face physical pain and when we face social pain, when we face isolation or rejection or loneliness. So it's so interesting that the same area of the brain is affected both with physical pain and with social pain. And then loneliness, well, it doesn't just affect your feelings and your behaviors, but it also shows up physiologically in your stress hormones and in your immune system and in your cardiovascular system. So let's get into the Health Activation Code here. Data. What data can you look at when it comes to loneliness? Well, first of all, UCLA, University of California at Los Angeles, they've developed a loneliness scale. So the first thing to do is to know whether you are or are not lonely, and this is a validated scale so you can get a numerical answer to this question, am I or am I not lonely? So here's the questions. I'll give you the questions from the 3-question UCLA Loneliness Scale, and yes, there are 3 questions. The clue is in the title. So what I want you to do is score yourself as you answer these questions. So So grab a piece of paper if you don't have one handy or use the notes or calculator on your phone, whatever's easier, because the scoring is, is quite simple. So what you're going to be doing when I ask you these 3 questions is scoring yourself 1 if your answer is never or hardly ever, scoring yourself 2 if your answer is some of the time, and scoring yourself 3 if your answer is often. So here we go, here's the 3 questions. Question number 1: How often do you feel that you have no one to talk to? Hardly ever or never, 1. Some of the time, 2. Or often, 3. Question 2: How often do you feel left out? Hardly ever or never, score 1. 'Some of the time' score 2 or 'often' score 3. And question 3, third question: How often do you feel alone? 'Hardly ever' or 'never' 1, 'some of the time' 2, 'often' score 3. And then just add up your scores and the thing to look for here is that the closer you score towards 9, the more you must, must prioritise what you can do to overcome loneliness, to lift loneliness, because we know what the impact of that is. So that's the first piece of data— know your loneliness score based on the UCLA 3-item Loneliness Scale. And here's another piece of interesting data to know, which is knowing your cortisol level. So as I've said already, loneliness shows up physiologically, and it shows up physiologically in your stress hormones. So again, looking at the research, there's research published in the journal Psychoneuroendocrinology, and it's shown that there's a change in your HPA axis when you're lonely. What's your HPA axis? It's your hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. Really, it's your stress activation system. And what the results of this research showed is that loneliness is associated with a couple of things in relation to your cortisol levels. So it's associated with a flattening of your diurnal cortisol rhythm. So what do I mean by this? Well, I mean that normally your cortisol levels show what we call a diurnal rhythm. So what this means is that your levels are high on waking and then they surge in those 30 to 40 minutes after waking and then they drop rapidly in the next few hours and then gradually continue to drop more slowly until they reach a nadir, a low level around bedtime and then gradually rise again towards towards the morning. And that's a very natural rhythm for all of us, but in those with loneliness in this study, what was shown was that this ebb and flow is very much dampened. So you don't have that same diurnal rhythm. And also, this is very, very interesting, if you feel lonely today, you have an increased cortisol awakening response the next morning. So what does this mean? This means that your cortisol is much higher than you'd expect it to when you wake up. And add to this a third thing that was found in the research, which is that if you have momentary experiences of loneliness through the day, then you also get momentary increases in cortisol as well. So all of this, all of this points to loneliness heightening your stress response, and then that heightened stress response is then what triggers inflammation, that triggers your immune system and that triggers aging. And that is why I measure cortisol at various times in the day for many, many of my clients, and the results, they're always so interesting because they do give clarity around matching your cortisol response to triggers. And sometimes those triggers are not what you think. Loneliness is a trigger. So I would certainly recommend cortisol testing, particularly if you score close to 9— 6, 7, 8, or 9 on that UCLA Loneliness Scale. And so if that is you, you and you're thinking about cortisol testing, then do reach out to me if you want to know more about how to do this and how to arrange that with me as well. So what about devices? Now you're probably all screaming at me, 'Tech is the enemy! It's tech and devices that have caused the demise of our ability to connect, that have made us more lonely. This device that we carry in our pockets, the device that's in our hands so much of the time. And you're probably asking, well, if we're so technologically connected around the globe, why are we living in such lonely times? Well, flip that. Here's a question: can technology play a role in reducing loneliness? Now here, there is no point at all turning to the research to look for an answer to that question, because the research, it's all mixed up, and there's just not enough of it anywhere. There's one study which was led by the Michigan State University psychologist William Chopnik, and he found that amongst older adults, social technology, including things like email and Facebook and Skype and messaging, social technology was linked to a lower level of loneliness. It was linked to less chronic illness, less depressive symptoms. Great news. But on the other hand, research led by another psychologist, Melissa Hunt from the University of Pennyl— Pennsylvania, she found that amongst younger adults adults— them talking 18 to 22-year-olds— decreasing the time on social media was what reduced feelings of loneliness. So look, maybe this all depends on your age, maybe it doesn't, but one thing, one thing that we know is that tech is your tool. It's your tool for you to use, not for it to use you. So I want to share with you some interesting ways to use devices to lift loneliness. And obviously I do want to preface this by saying not for one second am I suggesting that tech replaces direct human-to-human connection and communication. That's not what I'm suggesting at all, but what I am suggesting is that tech is not the eternal enemy, it can be the friend. So here's, here's a few useful devices. There's one which is the Lovelink lamp. Now what, what is this? Well, it's two lamps that work together in really what is a pretty genius way. So you keep one lamp and you give one lamp to a friend or to a loved one, even to a neighbour. You connect to Wi-Fi and you tap the top of your lamp to make it light up, and that simultaneously makes your friend's connected lamp light up too. And it really doesn't matter how many miles apart that you are. You could be next door, you could be on the other side of the globe. But what this means is that you can then send someone a light signal to say you're thinking of them, or a light signal that says you're feeling a bit lonely and would love a call. You get to decide what your light signal means, and I think this is, this is great. I think this is fantastic. I've got many clients who are stuck with stress or stuck with that feeling of anxiety or feeling low, and and this really is a great way to reach out for support because sometimes finding the words can be so hard and it can be hard to talk and sending that initial signal, taking that first step which can feel the hardest, just reaching out, it's so easy to do with just a tap on the lamp and it is social connections, isn't it, that gives you a much more powerful and really longer-lasting effect than than pretty much any other antidepressant can do. So this is a really great, great device. Love it. Number 2, second device, what about smart jewellery? So similar tech, but there's the Bond Touch bracelet that I've come across that you wear and then similarly a friend or partner or a family member wears, and you touch it and it lights up or it vibrates when someone is thinking of you, just telling you then that— that simple light, that simple vibration that you're not alone, telling you that you can be connected in a disconnected world. No, connected in a connected world. What else? What other devices are really interesting and useful? Well, let's make it simple. What about a digital photo frame? I know there's photos that get lost in our phones, but having photos on display. Now that immediately reduces that feeling of being alone. And a digital photo frame with multiple photos, it's, it's simple. And here's another device you might have this already in your home, a smart speaker. You might have Alexa or you've got Siri on your phone. Have you ever said to it, 'Hey Siri, hey Alexa, I'm lonely'? 'Hello, Emily.' Try that. You know, a voice assistant can be a companion. Now, it's not quite like chatting to a friend, but you know what? At least you're not ignored. Just make sure here that you're not talking to Alexa more than your friends, but at least someone is talking to you instead of ignoring you, and it's useful, right? In context. And here's a final question. Then. What do, what do Sam Lynx, Buddy Parrot, and Einstein have in common? Sam Lynx, Buddy Parrot, and Einstein, what do they have in common? Any ideas? Well, meet your new family members, social companion robots. Oh yes, now again, look, whilst we know that a robotic companion cannot replace human interaction, You know what? A friendly, a cute robot creature might be better than nothing at all, right? I mean, there's advancements now in robotics and AI, and social companion robots really are taking shape. I was looking at Paro, for example. Paro is your furry household seal. Not your furry household dog, your furry household seal. Have you ever wanted a pet seal? We know that pets ease stress. It's that beautiful oxytocin release from your pituitary gland that then you get from stroking your furry friend, and it takes attention away. It takes attention away from pain, and it reduces that feeling of loneliness. So there's the question: are you ready for a robotic pet? So that's data, that's devices, and now it is time to make a decision, the third part of the Health Activation Code. Road, what decision will you make when it comes to lifting loneliness? Because know this, loneliness is an internal state, which means it doesn't fully depend on external factors. That's so important to remember, and I talked about this in my conversation with Nick as well. You can be surrounded by people, lying next to your partner, be at work with colleagues, and still feel lonely. Or you can be alone on a mountain and still feel connected to the world. I've had that amazing feeling on top of the mountain, feeling connected. So it's not about circumstances, it's about how you react to these circumstances. What fuels loneliness is fear. Deep down, it's fear of being alone. So today you decide, you decide to not allow the fear of being alone to dictate what you do because there is too much at stake— heart disease, stroke, depression, anxiety, early death. And I know today we've been talking about the fear of loneliness and staying connected to others, but definitely in future episodes I also want to flip this to talk about the power of solitude attitude as well. So look out for those conversations. But today, back to today, make a decision. Make a decision to notice your feeling of loneliness. Acknowledge its presence. Measure it. Track it. And then take one action to stay connected. What is that action going to be? Maybe it's trying out one of the devices I've suggested or calling a friend even if you haven't spoken in months or years. And I know connecting with others, it might not feel easy, but it eases loneliness. And I wish you a health activating day. Thank you for listening to Health Activators. If you have enjoyed this episode, then please support the show by leaving us a 5-star review wherever you get your podcasts and by sharing this episode with a friend. Don't forget to click the link in the show notes right now to find out more details about what was covered in this episode and to connect with Dr. Alka Patel in order to take your strategic self-care to the next level. Thank you for listening to Health Hacktivators with me, Dr. Alka Patel, on the Woman's Radio Station. I'd love you to stay connected through the socials. You can find me at DrAlkaPatelUK. UK. And to learn more about the Women's Radio Station, do give them a follow too on their socials at Women's Radio STN.
