Judymay Is Listening – Surviving Success

Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome, welcome. This is Judy Mae Murphy and we are coming to you live from London on WRS women's radio station supporting women's well being. And today we, we have a fabulous guest in studio who's going to be helping us to talk about the difficulties surrounding success. How about if I told you that the reasons why you weren't making things happen in a really, really big way was because there's a part of your brain that knows it's going to be difficult, that knows it's not going to be straightforward, that is kind of fearing the unknown, but just kind of has a fuzzy idea that somehow it's not going to be fun. Well, our guest today is Chris Aver. He's an expert in how it is that this can have you backing away. He talks about the blessing of the burden, how it is that everything that you've done in your life and everything that you're doing in your life, that you just have a certain expectation, conscious and unconscious and how that can lead you to either push forward or pull back and how it is that when you are starting to create success, how you can make sure that you actually enjoy it. Chris is a fantastic motivational speaker and business consultant and a very dear colleague of mine. And I'm so excited because he's going to be answering a lot of the questions that we think are for people who are not like us. Very often we have this idea that there are some people who just are mysteriously better than us, mysteriously blessed that somehow these people are going to go ahead and make it all happen and the rest of us have to sort of just, you know, peck our way around the edges and hope and maybe and you know, those of us who are destined to play the lottery rather than to build huge big companies. Chris himself built a couple of big companies, sold them for millions. He'll be telling us all about how he did that. But mostly what is the emotional component of that? Because particularly for women, we cannot override that emotional component. We cannot say to ourselves, it doesn't matter, it's just business. You know, I'll feel about it later, I'll just think about it now. All the women are kind of smiling at that idea here in the studio. And we know this, we know that we can't just switch off our emotional component because it is on all the time, all the time. And there are some women who have managed to do it by numbing themselves out. But then they have to pay the price later on when they've got to reintegrate with their real selves. So how is it that we can learn to just really enjoy the journey, to go bigger and to push forward and to challenge ourselves and to be challenged by others and maybe to meet some not nice people and some not nice situations and not have that completely take us out at the knees. What is that about? And a question that we had in it was actually a question from another week that we didn't get a chance to answer. And I thought it was just so apropos to this. And it's from Nikki and Nikki, Sorry, Nikki, I don't know where you're from in the world, but that's okay because this is pertinent for everybody. And Nikki says one day I'm all about making my dream life come true, and I take loads of massive action. The very next day I can't be bothered. And that means a lot of plans. I get moving, wind up not going anywhere. What's wrong with me? How can I be motivated every day? So, Nikki, the bit of that note that I really loved was your question. What's wrong with me? That is something that we, as women do. The whole time we presume that there's something wrong with us. Not that our thinking maybe needs changing a little bit and that our conditioning needs changing, that perhaps there's something wrong in our family of origin or wrong in our culture, but we go straight to what's wrong with me. So I'm all for taking personal responsibility, as Chris is, but also we've got to recognize that you've done nothing wrong. And anyone who's listening, who hasn't made the dream come true yet, who is disappointed, perhaps because they haven't built out the family that they want, or they haven't built out the business that they want or the body that they want, you can know that you still have time. You still have time. This is still a thing. That dream wasn't put inside you for no reason. It wasn't put inside you to disappoint you. It was put inside you to come true. And we are here all about making sure that your dream comes true. And the second part that I thought was really interesting was your question. Your question was, how can I be motivated every day? Well, the thing we have to understand about motivation is it's always a question of motivated to what? So if you start to see it as one day you're motivated to build your Business and another day you're motivated to look after yourself and your body and your emotions. So you are motivated all the time. We just need to find a way that we can have your motivation more consistently moving in the direction of you building your business. So again, there's nothing wrong with you, you're not broken. There is still time and we're going to get things moving with the wonderful Chris Avery Chr. Welcome. Thank you very much, Judy Mae. So I love your story. I love how you've built out your life, what you've done already. I love the fact that sometimes I'll phone you and you just, you haven't been able to pick up 10 minutes earlier because you've been off flying an airplane. I love the way that you talk about your wife and your family and the love that you have for them and also the fact that you have built these companies and that you are now really, really excited about making sure that other people can do what you have done, perhaps in a way that serves them better. So tell us a little bit about you and where you've come from. Thank you. Well, my background's quite mixed. I had a fairly privileged start to my life and I was lucky to go to a good school and my parents worked very hard to get me there. Partway through my life as a young child, my parents lost all their money, everything they had and that led me to, to change the situation and we had to live in a caravan for a year, which refocused my view as a young child on what was important in life and what wasn't. And I do think underlying a lot of where I have come, where I've come from moving forwards, is that I've been driven by the thought that I can continue to do better, not better than my parents, but there's always more I can do and I don't want to find a situation where maybe I've messed up, taken too big a risk or not done enough, which is a bit of a yin and a yang balance to secure our future. So I got two young, two young girls. One is about start secondary school and she's, she's a challenge to all around her. She loves sport, she loves learning and she's a lot like me. She's not necessarily the top of a class or the top of her school sports team, but she loves it and does everything with 120% passion and I see a lot of that in myself. And to answer maybe part of the question, why do I start something and then suddenly stop? Part of it for me was about, how do I do better than the business I've been working in. I got fed up with mediocrity around me and thought, I can do this better, and the only way I can do it better is to get out and do it. Not moan, not be the person who criticizes, but the person who gets into the. Into the business world and creates change. And what was it that you were in? What industry were you in? So I was working in the digital creative industry and I was working with a large digital agency. Now, for people who don't know what digital creative is or what a digital agency is, can you just fill that in a little bit for us? Certainly. So I spent my life designing products and services, and as the Internet took off, I moved more into designing digital services such as websites, mobile phone apps and the like. And an agency is really a company who helps big businesses to create their digital presence. Social media websites, apps that we use every day on our mobile phones. And I was working for them one of their classes, a very big national telecommunications business and broadcast company. And I just felt they weren't necessarily getting the service they needed. And the agency who were doing the design work weren't necessarily thinking about the customer well enough. It was more about just getting the job done. So I left, I set my own business up and I thought, how hard can it be? Okay, so let's just look at that, because there are a lot of women right now who are looking at setting up their own business and looking at leaving something that they perhaps would perceive as more stable. So were you financially in a position where you had a bit of a safety net, or were you literally flying blind? I was sleeping on my friend's sofa. Okay, yes, that will do it. That's almost back to caravan time. Did that actually trigger anything? Did you need that fear, a little bit of fear to move you forward? I needed a bit of focus. And so like the lady who asked the question. Nikki. Yeah, Nikki. I wanted to do something, but I couldn't get myself in a position of moving forwards enough to actually make a difference. And I did get to a point where I thought, I'm too old. I was only 30 at the time, but I was definitely too old to not be doing something more positive with my life where I had a really good education, I'd done reasonably well at university and I'd had good jobs. So that was my motivation, was less security and money and more proof to myself that I could do this. And by getting up off the sofa, setting up My own company and then just no coaching, no tools, no resources because they didn't really exist in those days, you know, some very dry business books. But that wouldn't have helped. Just do it. Just speak to everybody I know and see if I could find somebody who wanted to take my services. So what is it that you would advise people who are at the place where they're just like, I know I've got more inside me, but I just have a vague feeling that it's going to hurt me. It will hurt, but the pain is worth it. And I think you have to really choose the pain you want for the outcome you hope for. If you're just going for a I want to build a business and make lots of money and be brilliant, it's difficult to succeed. If you're willing to accept this is going to be painful for a long time, I'm going to have to give up luxuries and pleasantries and things. Then you will definitely succeed. And so for some people, giving up luxuries and pleasantries, that's kind of a thing that they're like, yeah, I can do that. But the thing I'm terrified of is. And for most women, the thing they are terrified of is being yelled at. Good. Yell louder. Okay, so you're saying that rather than trying to find ways to self protect, rather than trying to find ways to back away from something, just face it head on and shout back. Yes. If you really, really care about changing who you are or where you are or what you're doing, then you have to stand up for yourself. And it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, ultimately someone's going to try and stop you. People tell you it's a terrible idea, that you'll fail and you have to just push past that. And sometimes it's about being the loudest voice in the room, sometimes it's diffusing that noise, anger, and stepping out of the room and letting people realize you're not going to get into an argument about this. So that sounds as if for some people it will require a pretty major change in how they view things, how they view themselves, how they comport themselves in the world. I think it's about focusing what you know about yourself rather than necessarily change. So being a good focus. And if you're a strong arguer, argue. If you're a weak arguer, step out and diffuse. Well, I'm really looking forward to. In the next section we're going to be talking more about that. Welcome to Women's radio station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Tracey Weedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. 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To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org you're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's radio stations creating a global network for the empowerment of women. And we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadio station. That's WomensRadio stn or Facebook Women's radio station, to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. And welcome back to Judy Mae Is Listening. I'm Judy Mae Murphy. I'm here in studio with Chris Averill and we're talking about how is it that you can survive success? How is it that you can have an idea, have a dream and really go for it and emotionally do all right with it? And Chris gave us the really good news right before the break, that it is going to hurt, that there is going to be pain and there's going to be pain for quite a long time. But we started to see that. We're talking about its. It's the kind of pain that grows you, that you can end up growing into the person that you ideally want to be in this lifetime. But what would you say, Chris, to women who believe that they just don't have what it takes, that they're just not that kind of person and therefore they're destined always just to work for someone else or destined to be the wallflower in their own life? I think that's an excellent question, Judy May, and if you can compare it to your life when you're thinking about business. So I very rarely met anyone who's successful in business who isn't also doing something at home to start with. And that could be bringing up the children on your own. It could be as part of a family group. But it's important to always reflect back in life that we do many things and running a business is one of those things. If I were to focus solely on my business, then my home life would fall apart. If I was focused on my own life, my business would suffer. So balancing those things out and at times when you're stressed or doubting yourself about your ability to grow and run a successful business is to just look back, what have I done? What have I achieved in my life? And very often, particularly for this audience, women, it's some amazing things. Running a household, bringing up children, is the most complicated, difficult, stressful and risky career you could ever have. Absolutely. And so, you know, if you're used to sorting out a squabble between two kids, sorting out a squabble between two employees won't be that new to you. No, I've had situations where I've had to sit down with employees and say, you have to sort this out between yourselves, play nice. And if you don't, one of you is going to have to go and say, sit in the corner. And I don't mean that in a patronizing way. The approach is probably a little bit more professional, but it is. One of you will not be able to work here if you can't sort it out, because I'm not your parents and I'm not here to make you get on. You're adults, and you've got to get on. So I do think bringing in your experience of your life outside of business and using that as a way of getting yourself through difficult periods, reinforcing yourself, that you've done more than this, and ultimately, you know, running a business is tough, but it's no tougher than many other things that we do without even thinking about it. So let's imagine that a woman doesn't have kids, but she maybe had a really good time going to tango class a couple of times a week for a couple of years. That counts. That's consistency, that's growing, that's learning, that's getting on with people, that's having a good time while you're doing something that you're not used to. So it's. It looks like it's just taking your references for what you're capable of, not just from business, as you say, but just from anywhere you've been. And then you'll find that you do actually already have what it takes. Yeah, a caring person can make a brilliant business mind because you're used to communicating and understanding and helping others before you help yourself. And one of the things I use to inspire myself when I'm feeling I can't progress, move forward with a challenge, is that I want to help others do well. And the ultimate goal for me isn't to have a huge, amazing business, is to have a place where people are learning and developing and growing and getting an opportunity they may not have had elsewhere. So you built a company that definitely did that, and then you decided that you were going to sell that company. What was that thinking about? Was it just that this is the obvious next step or this is the next challenge? This is. Is the next growth for me. Why was it that you decided and was there ever a time where you wished you hadn't made that decision? So the driving force behind choosing to sell is really I wanted to have a realization of the effort I put in. And that realization in part was to be able to accelerate the business growth to make it bigger, but also to get some Kind of financial return on my investment. I've grew the business. Personally, I never had any investment or any debt. So it would be nice that the pain my wife had been through with me over the years, the times I've been away from my kids as they grew up, missed sports days or whatnot. Yeah, mostly around for birthdays, but I've missed sports days, I've missed first days at school. And my family have been very supportive. So I wanted to be able to give back a little bit to them and to be able to maybe take my foot off the gas, you know, life isn't just about doing one thing. Life is. I think we talked about in the conversation, your whole life has to be bigger than a single outcome or a single result. So business, family, support, network. I do some work for charity now. I was doing some this morning. I know that sounds like cliche, but it's the only time I've had time to be able to actually throw myself into something. Because this is very interesting because a lot of the times we think that once people have the ultimate goal, the gorgeous family, the amazing lifestyle, have grown and sold a business, don't have to think about money in terms of it being a difficulty. We sort of think that that's it, then people are kind of done. But it sounds as if for you, there's always a next stage. And that's probably useful for people to know that where they're at is just their next stage and not to despair. I totally agree with you on that. The steps you take through life as you develop, anything you're interested in, your tango dancing, your marathon running, your friends, support, or growing a business, you get to a point of which you have to make a decision, Grow, stay the same, sell, or as I've been in a number of times, shut the company down because we're in terrible financial states. But my choice was to not close it down, not to let it take over me, and to challenge and strive. And I got this far. I must be able to get through this next hurdle, this next bump. But that is very useful, remembering that you can always walk away, that, you know, you don't have to be the person who. You hear these stories about people who spend five years paying back every penny. And this is the thing that we spoke about a few weeks ago here on the show in terms of relationships that, you know, if it's really not working for you, you do have the right to say, right, I'm walking away and I'm choosing something new and I'm starting again. And women tend to not start again. We tend to feel that when we fail once, that that then is our identity. Our identity is that of failed business person or failed wife or failed whatever. And we are then less likely to start again. But so it's interesting for you to just quite lightly sort of say, oh yeah, there's been things that I've started that haven't worked and I've, you know, been able to walk away from them. So tell me, how did that not affect, or did it affect your identity for yourself as a businessman? Did you think, I am now not good? Or did you think, okay, I messed up there, so I've got to go prove myself? Or did you just kind of go next once I pick myself off the floor and stop crying? That is very good to hear. Yeah. I mean, and it's true, you know, it's a huge emotional burden. It's massively important in your life not to fail. Because I think we're brought up to not fail. You know, everything at school is about success. Hitting the grades, sports teams, where if you talked more about what have you failed at today, what have you learned, what have you taken from that, how will you use that to grow and develop? Then the whole, I think society would be better, full stop. So you will fail. And failing isn't not an option. Failing is the ultimate outcome because every time you fail, you improve. Holding your head up is hard. In the uk, we're not very good at failed business entrepreneurs. People said to me when I set up the company, what happens if it fails? That was the first thing people would say to me and I'd say, well, what happens if you get made redundant? We're in the same boat. That doesn't mean either of us will guarantee to get a job tomorrow. We're both going to have to make an effort to change our situation. I didn't respond quite that well. I was probably two word answer. Yeah. But it really surprised me how negative even my close friends were about what success might look like and the risk. And I think that is because in people's minds they're projecting themselves on you. So they're going, oh, if I left my job and set up a company, what if it failed? Interesting. What would I do? Rather than going, how would I cope? Yeah. And what you'll often hear is once you've been running a business for a while, people say, I'd love to do that, but I just don't know where to start. Which again I think is people saying, I just don't want to take the risk. So I'm. One of my reasons for success is I'm a big risk taker. And I think that's my DNA, my profile, my personality is to take calculated risks, but more risks than maybe a lot of other people are willing to do. And how would you categorize a risk? So I will put the outcome of what I'm trying to do above the safety, security, or probably wisdom of the crowd. Where most people will say that's crazy doing that. And I'll think it's crazy not to. Why wouldn't you? And maybe there's a little bit of understanding in how different people are wired. My wife is much less of risk taker personality wise and why we get on well together. But also she's always thinking about the kids. So I think if you're naturally not a risk taker, you do need to shift your thinking. Not massively. You don't have to take a parachuting or anything, or lend against your house. I never did. But you do need to not worry about failure and just think about how do I move forwards. I maybe find some better ways to fail. Maybe you can say, well, there's no way I'm going to do this, so let me go and do it and let me just become a bit immune to failing. Exactly. Learn to. Let's go back to tango. You know, tango is hard. Let's learn to tango and it doesn't matter if we don't become great tango dancers. We've learned what we're not very good at and let's now try a different type of dance. And we also have references for you. You can step on your own toes, you can step on other people's toes. And hey, look, we're still alive. Because at the end of the day, that's what our brain is saying to us. Am I going to survive this physically? Am I actually going to be okay? That's correct. And I think that really is an important fundamental of getting out of a trough and moving forward. Say it's okay to do something, it's okay not to be brilliant at it because it doesn't matter. This is me and I'm the only one who really cares and should care about it. What other people think, it's not important. And as well, I presume that we've got to say that as well as the pain and the difficulty, there must have been an awful lot of fun. The majority of it, as I look back, was brilliant fun. There were a few tears, a few stresses, and you do carry that burden as part of success. But 99% of it is you are achieving, growing, always learning and you're always helping others who are working with you. Which always for me was the most fundamental part, the hardest part of failure is letting others down who you work with. Wow. Okay. And we're going to be delving right into the heart of the pain around selling a business after these. And here on Judy Mae's Listening on wrs. Supporting women's well being. We are supporting your well being today because we hear that for a lot of you, you're holding back and being even less than you could be. So hopefully after this, things are going to be very, very different. See you soon. Welcome to the women's radio station Supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don't know where to start. @empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Ann Kelleher. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months, I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops interviewing customers asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip. For our listeners, the most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station, Its Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum, juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together with spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories. It will be refreshing, honest and funny. Look at Being a mum? Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk welcome to the Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's wellbeing. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. And welcome back to Judy Mae is Listening. I'm Judy Mae Murphy. I'm here in studio with Chris Averill and we are talking about surviving your own success here on WRS Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being. And just during the ad break we were comparing what we all of us did for the weekend and I came dead last with the fact that I absolutely failed to even go to Whole Foods. We had our associate producer, Elspeth was somewhere in the middle with the fact that she ran a race and got a bottle of champagne. But in first position, way out in front, we have Chris Averill who sailed around the Isle of Wight. There you go. I mean that really is the mindset. Just we're going to get back to the business stuff in a second. But I just have to ask you, what does it take to make you decide that that is what you're going to do for the weekend? Because I'm pretty good. I mean I went to the boxing on Friday night. I've been to a couple of art openings. I think I'm pretty good at doing life. But when you go and do something like that, what is your mindset? Well, sailing for me is a good way of removing all of the day to day tensions, thoughts and challenges you have when you're sailing. You just have to focus on what's happening on the boat, the people around you, your teamwork, which sounds a bit cliche but it's not. It really is working together hard and there's no better place, I think, to do that kind of head clearance and teamwork than on a boat with 1200 other boats racing around the Isle of Wight for the annual Round the Island Race. Oh, my gosh. And that ties in with your idea of to make sure that it's not just about business. Make sure that your life is a lot more holistic. And we'll be talking a little bit more about that. Another thing that made me smile was the fact that you invited me to come along with you. And I'm so not that kind of person. But I love the fact that you think I could be. And it reminds me of. There's a friend of mine, Johann Ernst Nilsson, who's a professional explorer and he does amazing things around the world. He sort of travels from pole to pole. Like, I'll start at the North Pole, go to the South Pole, up I'll go to the North Pole. When he was 18, he cycled from Sweden to Africa. And then he did the same thing in a boat a few years later. And then he did the same thing a few years later in a rubber dinghy that was hovering above the air. So it was like an aircraft. And he wants to bring me to the North Pole. So I think that I'll tell him that. Johan, thank you. Chris has me in training. He's going to actually bring me out in a boat. Baby steps. Let's see. And let's see if I can get rid of this idea. This idea I have of myself as being someone who's not physically strong and capable of being out there in the world in that way. Someone who's not sporty. I didn't play sports as a kid because I was kind of handicapped. But hey, who's to say that I can't learn how to be sporty? So watch this space. If I'm expecting other people to grow, then I've got to go first myself. All right, let's get back to what we were speaking about. We were speaking about the burden of the blessing, as you put it in your talks. And what is it that. That we can really do to make sure that we can survive our successes, the things that we are going for, whether that is that you're building a family and suddenly you've got loads of kids and you just think, oh, no, was this the dream? I can't handle it. Or you are like, with you, building an enormous business and suddenly that's painful. Or it could be that you are transforming your body. I've got a friend who is the strongest woman in Ireland. She just won the. The prize for a deadlift of £190 or kilos kilos, I think. Anyway, it was huge. It was huge. And she was just, oh, my gosh, she's just so extraordinary. But then when she's got to show up, when she doesn't feel that well and she would rather stay in bed and she's got to show up again, that's the burden of the blessing. So when was it more of a burden than a blessing for you? When was the time where you said, I really am not enjoying this? So for me, the biggest burden really follows the failure. Excuse me, the failure side of things. Where when times are good and you've got new clients coming in and sales seems easier. My job really is sales. That's what I did. The majority of the time, you're flying and you can't fail. There's nothing you can't achieve. You're the best business in the world. Even your competitors, who are 10 times bigger, seem to pale into insignificance. And then something changes. A cyclical work shift because clients budgets are contracting. The Brexit challenge happens. It could be you've messed up a project, delivered something that hasn't been what the client wanted. And then suddenly everything changes. Perspective, it becomes negative, that enthusiasm shrinks. And the scary part is your colleagues sense it and your clients sense it. So often as a founder, you have to drive the business forward. You've got to be always fearless, always positive, always succeeding. And it is such a massive burden to do that. They say it's very lonely at the top. And the reason isn't because you haven't got friends. It's because you're the one person who has to never let their guard down. And I take that home sometimes, and that's a problem. Or worse, I'll take it, not speak at home about what's bad, because I just can't bear another conversation about failure. But you know, that's the real truth is when it's bad, you have to own it. And you've got to show an armor that you're impenetrable. But I've learned as part of my process of growing and selling the company, there are a number of simple steps you can take. And you'll hear it recommended to you a lot. It's harder to apply, but it's good to at least know what to do. So what is it that. That you can do if you feel like, okay, I wanted this and now I've created this. Maybe it's that you are about to hand in a PhD or a master's thesis. Maybe it's that you just suddenly think, how many children did I think I needed? Maybe it was that you have been promoted, maybe it's that you're recovering from an illness. But how is it that we can. What would be the first thing that we can do to survive our success? So the first step to take is to really understand that you can step away, that you can leave this behind. And it sounds wrong to say that in a family situation or a friendship situation, but it is the same, that there are others around you who will help, they will support, they will take over the point when you really can't take any more. And all you've got to do is either ask or in business, I've found, build that relationship with people around you, trust them and let them do your job, that then you can take a break and ultimately, like I did, you can sell the company and the company survives. It didn't need me in the end, which is a horrible thing to admit too. But my children will go off to university or into jobs and they'll have their own families and they won't need me. In fact, I'll need them when I'm old. So there are a lot of parallels. To step away and allow what you have to go its own way, and presumably to step away in a more comprehensive way than just taking a quick break. So not just getting a babysitter in to look after the kids for the night, but actually taking a week away with your partner. Or it could perhaps be that you, you know, leave on time every single day this week, that you're not. Not only are you stopping, leaving the office at midnight, but you're actually leaving when everyone else leaves. So, in fact, that stepping away could be more immediate and could be a lot bigger and that you'll see that it's. It's okay to do that. Absolutely. You are setting a precedent for everyone else who's with you that you don't have to be so overly committed, that people follow in your footsteps. It's fine to work hard, but you have to have balance for yourself and for those who are working with you. If I was in the office at 4 in the morning and left the office at 10 at night, and I emailed everyone in those hours, they would have an awful quality of life. I work 24 7. I don't stop. I don't stop thinking about business. I don't stop thinking about what we should do and my team. But I was able to take a decision to promote a senior management team who are amazing, and I was able to take the decision of selling my company and walking completely away from it and letting it go on its own because I'd been through so many good and bad times that I felt there's no better time than when it's really working and I've got it in a great place to let it go its own way. And that's something that's really important for women because we do tend to have this sort of martyrdom complex, this idea of that in order to be seen to be good, in order to be seen to be successful, I have to be there all the time. I have to be the linchpin. I have to be the one that people can't do without. I have to be pivotal. I can't just be a satellite sometimes. And so that's really good to hear. What is another thing that people can do to make sure that they are surviving the burden of the blessing? So it's almost contradictory to my first point, but it's keep being you. It's keep doing you whatever you stand for, whatever you're about. It's continually bringing to business and into your life the things that you care about. So for me, it was very much about what are my values. And my values were to create a work environment where anyone could succeed. We employed generally more women than men, partly because of the sector of the industry I was in, but partly because I never even thought about it. It was not positive. I need more women. I just wanted everyone to succeed. And I saw great, great people and wanted them to do well. So always being yourself, always, always championing what you care about is super important. And did you find a time when things were dark where you weren't being yourself? Yes. Any coach, I think, will tell you that it's very easy to fall back into the bad you. So if you're a smoker or a drinker or if you get angry easily when the pressure's on, those are things you will fall back on. It's that devil, that negativity. And mine is losing my patience with people. And just why haven't you got to where I am as quickly as I've got there? As in not business wise, but mentally, I've jumped and got to a point. And so I had to be very careful. I wasn't falling back onto my old habits. And I did coaching to help me with that. Fantastic. So after the break, we're going to be hearing a lot more about how is it that we can, in very practical terms, make sure that we are maximizing the upside and minimizing the downside when it comes to enlarging ourselves and becoming even better versions of who it is that we are. So if you're just joining us now, you are listening to Judy Mae is listening. I'm Judy Mae Murphy. We're here in studio with Christ Chris Averill and we've been talking all about how is it that you can move forward knowing that no matter how big you get that you're going to be able to actually enjoy it. So we're getting some very practical tips about how that can happen. And if you have any kind of question in your life, anything that you want to make happen, please do reach out. You can reach out to me personally at infoudimay tv. You can reach out to us here at the station. We want to hear, we want to hear what's going on for you. 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We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org you're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's radio station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradio station, that's womensradio Stn or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. And welcome back to Judy Mae Is Listening. You are listening to us live on Mondays. We go live on Mondays at noon and then if for some very odd reason you miss us live on Mondays at noon, you can listen again. So that's at noon and midnight all week until you see us again. And thank you so much, by the way, for all the lovely comments and suggestions and we really do listen and we take it to heart. This is about your experience of life. What is it that you're feeling on a day to day basis? What are you making happen? What can we improve on? How can we make sure that we save you from things that aren't working? And that's largely been what we've been doing today is looking at how can we make sure that we don't go down the road a lot of successful people go down where they allow the burden of the blessing to overtake them and make them wonder, why did I even do this in the first place? And our expert here today is Chris Averill, who really found himself when he was selling his company and doing other great big things around the world, found himself, as he was saying, forgetting that he could step away, forgetting to be his best self. And Chris, what else was it that you found was an important thing to remember? I think you always have to remember that you want to have a challenge you care about. I wanted to prove I could do it better, as I talked about at the start, better than others. Not because I'm some huge ego, but I really cared about what I did. I love my job, or rather the thing I was producing. I think it's important to know you have choices. No one's making you stay in a job, no one's making you set a business up. No one's making you do anything. You know, you are your own person. And as long as you keep that in perspective, if things don't work out how you hoped, you can have, you have a choice. You can step away, you can do something different to create a new life yourself, pick up a new job, start a new thing. It is important that you've not failed. You've just, you've just changed angle, changed direction a little bit, found a new thing to follow and that it's okay to do that. Because as women we often are told, you know, but you said this like, we're often given a hard time for changing our mind for, you know, it could be that there's a woman who decided that, yeah, you know what, I might like to date that guy. And then she just says no to another date. And he's there saying, well, hold on a second, you were the one that was interested in me in the first place. As if we don't have a right to change our mind or that if we do change our minds, we're seen as flaky and less than. So that's really interesting that you say to be alright with that, to remember that you do have choices and you have the right to exercise those things. Choices, absolutely. I think it's incredibly important that you own your own life, your own, your own decisions, and you're not beholden to others. You should have relationships where you share and support each other, but you shouldn't ever look back and think, I wish I'd done that. But I didn't because I was told I might fail or someone said to me it was a bad idea. There are no bad ideas in life. And what we do, you get on, you try and sometimes you succeed, sometimes you fail. But ultimately we all strive for success, however big or small that might be. It's important to realize it's your choice. I'm choosing to strive, I'm choosing to go ahead. And I just like the fact that you can prove other people wrong. If you have a bunch of doubters in your life, go out and do it and prove them wrong. Absolutely. And then if you end up proving them right, you can just choose something else and prove them wrong the next time. And they'll take you for a drink, I'll take you out. They'll say, you know, they were right and you were wrong. And you take that and you let be it wash off you. And it might make you a bit tearful, it might make you feel a bit down, but you bounce out the other side and you pick the next thing. And when you do succeed, they'll be your biggest supporters. That's the best thing. That's brilliant. They'll feel like they had something to do with it. When I took, when I gave them that little come to Jesus moment, that's when that turned around for them. I know all about that. People decide that they were somehow pivotal in your success and that's great because maybe in some way they were. And what's another way that we can make sure that we are surviving our success and maybe even having a good time in the midst of it? I've touched on it a couple of times, but I think it's worth reiterating that. The elevation of others, certainly for me, but I do believe successful businesses, entrepreneurs are always helping other people and that might be through creating jobs, it might be through giving opportunities to people from backgrounds where they wouldn't necessarily be exceptional, accepted or interviewed. But ultimately it's what you care about. If your only mission is to make money, you'll be successful, but you'll probably be very miserable. Whereas if your mission is to help, is to grow, is to develop other people, then you'll find a balance, if that's monetary or just walking away every day feeling good about yourself. So I do believe that the elevation of others, the continual trying to grow, develop and learn is one of the biggest, best things we can do. If you have kids, you do at home without thinking, so why not take that into the office and do the same in business? And we can see that we are able to do that without sort of demoting ourselves. That elevating others doesn't mean sort of like, oh no, you go, you take the glory, you take the opportunity. I'll just, I'll just sit here and feel good about myself. But it is, in fact, it's part of your growth as well. Part of your own elevation is to elevate others. Is that what I'm hearing? That is exactly what you're hearing. And I didn't really grow up as a particularly religious person. But I think if you look at any religion, it starts the fundamental of all religion is helping other people less, fortunately ourselves. So if you can do that by creating better jobs for people, by helping people develop, by improving people's lives, then it's an incredible success. You might only do it with two people, or you might end up being a Richard Branson or someone and do it for. For hundreds of thousands of people. It doesn't matter. The point is you're helping more people than you're not. Brilliant. And what's another thing that we can do? I'm loving these takeaways. I think a really important thing is to sometimes be a little bit selfish as well, that you need to have a takeaway for yourself. And it could be just purely creating a better world. But I think often it's about being able to steal a little bit of time, being able to just work from home on a Monday so you can do the things with your friends, your family, the sports or the arts or whatever it is that you are able to steal a little bit of you time to just realize, why am I doing this? Because it can become a slog and it can become a thing that you're very, very focused on. So I do believe those who take time out, those who are able to just block out some time in their diary, become more successful because they're more balanced. Oh, I love this. Absolutely love it. And presumably as well, that there are a lot of people, I imagine, who just aren't going for it because they just feel like when the burden comes, when the difficulty comes, that they just won't be capable. But if they take those steps and they say, right, I've got five things now that I can do every single time, and I can definitely go to one, two or three of those and ensure that it's going to be a much better result. I love that. Elspeth, what is it that you're loving from the show? Hello. So my top three are first one step away. Second one, keep being you. And the third one is continue bringing into your life and business what you want. Okay, beautiful. Love it. And that's what we want to do, is we want to make sure that whenever we're listening to expert advice, that we are taking that advice and we are chunking it in a way that we can actually use it. And this is like, what I love about Chris from the stage is the fact that people go away knowing that I know what to do now. And also I know why I'm doing it. But I've got my very practical things. I have captured them. I'm going to move forward with them. And, Chris, what is it that you would say kind of breaks your heart when you look at certain women and they're out there and they're not creating success for themselves or I'm sure you're around a lot of women who are creating success for themselves and they're miserable. What is it about that that you see as sort of unnecessary, necessary? It's a, it's a good and very challenging question. Not wanting to try and get out of an answer. I will answer. I wish that society was as equal as it purports to be. There isn't enough equality which does tend to create some polarization of how women are seen. So you can. It upsets me when a woman's seen as being like a bloke because they're being shouty and angry and actually they don't necessarily, necessarily need to be shouting angry, but they should definitely not be called a bloke just because they have an opinion and they're standing up for themselves. It's also frustrating to see emotion coming out and not being accepted in the workplace. You know, in my experience, men don't do emotion where women do emotion much more naturally and in a very male dominated world in business then that is a real conflict. But it's a natural part of, of who we are. You know, we should be able to be expressive and emotional and we have bad days and we shouldn't not show that. So I think it's a difficult challenge in where we are today. But it's not to be afraid. Crying isn't failure. Crying is an emotion someone might see as failure. But if you come back tomorrow a stronger person, you solve that problem, then you're ten times better than the person who criticized you. Absolutely. And what is it that we can look forward to seeing from you next? That's a very good question. Well, at the moment I'm writing a book about mergers and acquisitions, about how to grow and sell a business and really a fairly humorous guide on removing the pain and emotional stress of the process of growth and sale. So that's taking up a bit of my time and then we'll see what comes next. I will keep coaching and I look forward to doing more talks and helping others learn from my experience and coaching those people and learning myself. And if people would like to get some business coaching from you, what would be the best way for them to get in contact? I am on the Internet. LinkedIn's an excellent place. Chris Averill on LinkedIn and I respond to all my messages. Averill is a V E R I L L l That's it. A V, E, R, I, double L. Lovely. Fantastic. So thank you so much for being in studio today and sharing your wisdom because it is very different when you have someone who has lived through it. A lot of people are out there sharing wisdom that they themselves are still just in the process of making happen. So I love the fact that you pretty much are living the dream come true. Like gorgeous, fantastic family, great business, sold a great business now doing your flying and your yachting and all this good stuff. And it's, you know, it just is lovely to have someone who is doing that, who is just such a good person and who wants that for everybody. So thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you very much. So here on Judy Mae is listening. Remember that this is your show. This is all about you making sure that you are supported because I know for a lot of you, you are surrounded by people who don't have the same mindset. People who are more into just distracting themselves, people who are more into just sort of having a good time, going for a drink, but you're into actually finding out what is it that's going on inside of you. How is it that you can create a better inside in order to create a better outside world? In short, how do you make yourself grow so that you can have your dreams come true and in order for this show to work. And the reason it does work so well is because you keep letting me know what's not working. So please share that with me. Find a way to get in contact infoudymay TV is a really good way and just ask a question and then I'll look around for a guest that will match that and so we'll be able to answer that for you. So let's get used to that. Let's get used to realizing that what's going on inside us, what it is that concerns us, really, really matters. You matter to me. See you next week live at noon on Monday. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. 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