Judymay Is Listening – The Body Keeps The Score

Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen, and together we transform everything. Welcome, welcome, welcome. How are you feeling? We often don't stop to ask ourselves that, do we? How are we feeling? Normally, it's, how are you doing? And today we're really going to be tapping into that. Tapping into the fact that our bodies are a huge part of who we are. I think that what we've tended to do, at least in the west, is we've tended to really look at the triumph of reason over emotion and the triumph of the mind over the body. And, well, it kind of goes hand in hand with things like the triumph of the masculine over the feminine. So in order to move things in directions that work better for us in our lives, we're going to start looking at the part of, well, being that is about really what's going on. So. Hi, I'm Judy Mae Murphy. For those of you who hadn't met me before, you're very welcome here to. Judy May is listening. And what we do is. I listen very carefully to what you say is going on. And this week I've got a lot of feedback about women kind of being detached from their bodies, Thinking of their bodies only in terms of how it looks in a bikini. Thinking of their bodies only in terms of are they sick or not sick, Are they hungover or not hungover? And when we look at it in that way, when we look at our bodies only when our bodies are being troublesome, it can lead to a situation where we're not really picking up on all of the little messages that our body is constantly sending us. So what I've done is I have brought a woman into studio. Caroline. Is it torts? Is it torts? Is it right? It's touts. Touts. Okay. I was just. I suddenly thought, I'm gonna get this wrong because I never see it written down, because, of course, I just call you Caroline. And Caroline is an expert. I see her as my expert because for so long when I was doing yoga with Caroline, she just was my absolute fount of wisdom and knowledge and an inspiration for doing deeper work on this. And I remember afterwards we used to chat about various books, and all through her lessons, she is sharing this am wisdom that she has through this focus on the body and not seeing the body as some sort of, like, extra, some sort of surface thing, some sort of, you know, throwaway. If we can get it to look good and not malfunction, then that's all we need. So, Caroline, how was it that you got interested in the body in the first place? And explain a little bit about what it is that you do in your work? Okay. Well, I started out, really. My early training was in fine art, and I was a creative person. And then I went into dance, and I did an MA in dance at Laban. And subsequently, I was sort of looking for a way to make a living, and I trained as a massage therapist and a body worker. And it was during that time that I came across the yoga, and I just. I loved it so much that I sort of never looked back. But I've always brought together the bodywork and the yoga. And in a way, I think I look at people's bodies in a different way because I'm used to touching them and working with them physically. So that really has always informed the way that I work. So when you see someone and they're in front of you and they don't necessarily have issues with their body, and they might even say to you, well, I'm not sure why I'm here. What would be your first port of call? What are you looking at when you look at them? I think I look at posture. I look at the way the structure is working, you know, how smoothly their bodies are moving, how much stress I can see in the body. There's a lot you can tell just through the breath. So all those things are sort of informing me. And after so many years now, it's almost like I'm not really thinking about it anymore. I just. I'm almost drawn to certain part of the body or, you know, I look at alignment, just sort of. I've trained a lot in looking at the alignment and how that's working, if it's helping the person or if maybe their knees are sort of working in a way that might get in the way of comfort. All of these types of things I'm sort of looking at, really. So it sounds like at this point, it's kind of an instant read for you, that you can see what it is that someone needs. Yeah, absolutely. And I start to almost see personality and the story of the body is all in there. It's so fascinating. And then how do you feel when you hear people speaking about their body in sort of quite violent terms, when they, you know, are kind of hating on their body, when they're comparing their body to someone else's, when, you know, these things that are quite accepted, how do you feel? I think it's so common, you know, and it's In a way, it's a level of dissociation that people have from their bodies. And, you know, it reminds me of a character that I once heard of, Mr. Duffy, you know, and he says Mr. Duffy lived a short way from his body. And I always think it's a bit like that, that people are not really inhabiting their bodies. And it's. Yeah, I find it really quite distressing in a way, because it just gets in the way of us being able to live a fully embodied and happy life, which in a way, is quite simple. You know, there are so many simple things we can do to feel more comfortable and happy in our own skin. What would be an example of someone who would come into your studio and they would a little uncomfortable, a little stressed in their body, or even quite stressed. What kind of turnaround can people expect? Because we as humans, we really only do the things that we think there's going to be a big enough payoff at the end. So what could we expect? If our bodies are kind of fine, kind of creaky, kind of stressed, but not to the point where we are completely closed down, what could we benefit from going into a yoga studio or working with a body worker? I think the thing that I try to do almost straight away is just to get people to notice their body, like their own structure. So feel their bones on the ground. I usually start with, let's just lie down, feel your bones. Notice where your body touches the floor. And now take some nice deep breaths and really focus on your exhale, because the exhale slows everything down and your heart rate slows and you're already. People are actually coming in, if you like, into themselves. So it's so simple. And then if you can take that away, some of those simple things. Right now, in this moment, do you feel sitting in the chair? And for example, recently myself, I've started to try not to sit up. So straight from my dance training, I was always taught to kind of, you know, really lift up and be out in the world. And I've realized it's more comfortable for me to just relax and go back a little bit. Now that's interesting because I would have thought that the, you know, sitting up ramrod straight would have been the ideal. And in fact, I've been. Since you mentioned the word posture, I've been like, well, I can't sit up really straight now because you'll notice. So, you know, what would be the benefit of sitting in a less erect kind of way? I think there's a kind of A tension in the whole body, and almost like a cellular level of tension. And if you can just sometimes kind of sit back and notice your back rather than your front of your body, for example, then you immediately have a sense of something that's behind you rather than everything being out in front. So it's not so much about where you're going. It's not about kind of that achievement going somewhere. It's about just back off a and be here right now where you are. I imagine that also increases your levels of safety. We talk a lot on this show about feeling safe as a woman and how difficult that can be in society. And I imagine just having that awareness of your back makes you feel like someone's got your back. It just happens to be you this time. Exactly. I mean, that's a brilliant metaphor in a way, that you have your own back, you know, that you're not expecting anyone else to be there having your back because you feel you have it yourself, you know, so that would be one. One thing. It's just to be more relaxed. Often we're sort of. We're almost carrying too much tone. And the work that I do is a lot about, you know, what's the kind of optimum tone for you in your normal life. Now explain a little bit more about tone. This sounds fascinating. So, for example, if you imagine tensing all your muscles up, you know, if you just even made a fist and tightened your hand up, and then you gradually relaxed it, and I counted down 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, until you feel the zero tone. It's really soft, really relaxed. And you can do that with your whole body and then work out how much tone or tightness or muscular tension do you need to walk around? Do you really need to use as much energy as you're using, or can you be more economical? And these are some questions you can ask yourself during the day. Now, I wish that we'd had this conversation last week, and I'll tell you why. Because I've been pretty intensely doing boxing training with a fantastic trainer. And I was doing it almost every day last week. And I'm suddenly realizing what I did that didn't serve me was that I took that tone because it's a very, very intense kind of way that you need to. That you need to hold your body and hold your fists in order to get the power to do the job in the boxing ring. Exactly. And I realize now that I was actually carrying that out every single day. And I had a bit of a wobbler, a bit of a collapse on Friday. And I realized that that's what it was. That it wasn't actually what I was doing in the boxing ring, but it was the fact that I was carrying that tone with me outside of the studio. And that really is what you're saying to everybody. We don't have to carry that much, that there are times when it needs to be that way, but then. Times where we can be more relaxed. Exactly. That's a perfect example because, you know, that's what we do. There's certain situations where we need to be able to run or, you know, to rush or whatever. But there are other times when we need to be relaxed so that we're not using up all our resources. And, you know, unless we're aware of how much tension. You often see people and they've got their shoulders up around their ears and they're feeling really, really stressed, but they're not really even aware of it. And so if you can just, you know, use those very simple things of just count yourself down to a more neutral state. And I often say it's a bit like, you know, if you're in a car, you need to put the car in neutral. You can't just always have it in, you know, in third gear when you're just actually sitting at the curbside. And we need to do that with our bodies. We need to be able to be versatile and, you know, have more choices about what, what we're doing. That's it. Oh, I love that. Yes. To have, have more choices because we're either, because we're quite binary about it these days, aren't we? We're either like, you know, we're, we're in mode or we're relaxing where we're working, we're busy or we're relaxing and that's a very kind of unnuanced way to live. So after the break, we're going to be talking about how does that impact things like levels of energy, ability, then how does it impact illness in women, whether, you know, preventing illness or recovering from illness. So we are right back after these all about women's well being. Welcome to women's radio station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's Radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things. Autism, women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Tracey Weeden of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award winning family run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth and fine art. You can contact us on 0208-658-4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free no obligation quotation at Brownhills. We've got you covered. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything, fertility, pregnancy, birth and bab right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover and mental health advocate and you can listen to my show get booked here at Women's Radio station daily at 5am and 5pm throughout my shows we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chapter authors, publishers and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch with@presentersomensradiostation.com join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org you're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women's Radio Station that's Women's Radio Stn or Facebook Women's radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life, and I listen, and together, we transform everything. Welcome back. This is Judy Mae Murphy here in studio with Caroline Touts today, and we're talking all about your body. You've been giving me a lot of feedback that you are sort of, well, as Caroline said, disassociated from your body. Because if we're getting to a point where we're being critical of our body, we're seeing it only in terms of what it might get for us out in the world, in terms of does it look good for Facebook Live, or do I look good in this photograph or can I fit into this dress? Then we really have sort of lost contact with our bodies. And a thing that really interests me is the idea that that disassociation, that losing contact with our bodies has been going on for a very, very long time. I remember being in my 20s and being completely disassociated, and I was even studying dance at the time. When I was in college, I took it as an extra subject and really remembering now what that felt like to just not really be living in your body, and where did that come from? And those of us who had tougher childhoods, who had childhoods where there was a lot of neglect, where you didn't get hugged or there wasn't anyone to help you brush your teeth, that we can tend to be even more disassociated. And it's the same for people who I didn't come from this kind of household, but who lived in a violent household, and they had to constantly, constantly tried to protect themselves, and their stress hormones were running so hard all the time that the mechanism to turn off those stress hormones actually broke down. And the fact that these days, we can actually look at that and we can heal from it. Two books that I really love that Caroline is aware of, too, that are absolutely phenomenal. One is the Body Keeps the score by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk, the Body Keeps the Score. And the other one is Complex PTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. That's Complex PTSD from Surviving to Thriving. And that's where I first learned the thing that I had been intuitively doing by going to yoga and going to massage and bodywork, and that is that, yes, your body is or can be holding a lot of trauma, and that trauma can be healed. Caroline, what is your experience daily of that? Well, I think you can see trauma in, you know, in people's eyes and in their bodies. And I think we have to be very careful as yoga teachers because we're not always experts in that sense. You know, there's a lot of. I don't know now, there's a lot of people who've done trauma training and are coming into bodywork with that knowledge, you know. But I think just on a basic level, we can bring people in by helping them to be aware of their breath and really grounding, as I was saying earlier, these are ways for us, and myself included, really, that I think I came in really searching for a way to feel more at home in my own body. And it took me a long time, and I think I'm still doing it now. I'm still having to really do that work. And I think, as you said, if you come from a childhood where maybe you didn't have the right kind of, let's say, sort of positive feedback about your body, especially as a woman or a girl, you don't always know how to really see and feel yourself. So I think that's been very important for me. How do I ground myself? How can I make a practice which is nurturing and then help other people in that way and around this idea of that this can help at any stage in life. I understand that you have always worked with people from people in their 20s right through to people in their 80s. Absolutely. And I do work with older people now, and I find often older people come to my classes, and I enjoy really having all ages and shapes and sizes and backgrounds in my class, because I think it's partly. I've had a lot of experience now, so I can actually hold that field of a very broad sort of spectrum, if you like. But I think for older people as well, they still need to practice and be in their bodies. And I do work a lot with older people, and I find it really, really rewarding. So imagine this will help everybody because we always carry this feeling of, oh, it's too late, I've missed the bus. I should have done that years ago for everything, for relationships, for money. It's just sort of a feeling that we often carry. So if anyone's feeling that, imagine that there's a woman who is in her late 70s, early 80s, and she feels like, well, it's too late for me now. It's just all downhill. What could she, in practical terms, do? Well, I mean, there are yoga classes you can go to. And, I mean, I think sometimes it can be a bit intimidating to walk in to a yoga studio and you're surrounded by lots of young people in little outfits, and that can be a bit overwhelming. But I think There are. I teach a class in my community just in the church hall. And I think these types of places can be really welcoming for everybody, really. And I would encourage people just to go out and just try it. And I always say, you don't have to. There's nothing to achieve. You know, you don't have to do anything. Just enjoy your practice. And I start very slowly and I say, miss out all the fast bits. You know, just focus on the few things you can do, and from that you grow. And that's something I remember from taking your class, was that I never felt wrong. And the class I was taking with you was in a studio where there were a lot of yoga teachers who would come there to take their classes. So it was sort of at a very, very high standard. And still I never felt like I had to keep up or that I somehow was. Was striving. And that was, you know, very, very much so. Every time that you would say, you know, okay, and at the same time you would then be encouraging to, you know, and now try this. It wasn't like you were allowing people to sort of kick back and say, well, I can't do that, because you were still insisting that everyone rose to the level that they could. So. Absolutely. And I always think every day is a different day as well. So I would say, you know, sort of of work to your own capacity for today. So today you might not have much energy, but tomorrow you might be full of beans. So whichever you are, you know, you tune into that one for today. That was a message, right? For me, that was what that was. Because, you know, usually my Monday is very, very hectic, you know, before and after the show. It's a sort of an out and about day for me. So I often pack it in with lots of meetings and lots of fun things and classes. And today this is the only thing that I have scheduled. And, you know, because of taking it a little bit too far last week. And so, yeah, you know what? This is just today that today my energy isn't as it usually is. But that doesn't mean that tomorrow it won't be back. So just to do that, to take it that, you know, it's fine. We have to actually read how it is today. We can't presume that just because it's Monday that my entire body is going to be acting like it's Monday. Exactly. And I think it's, you know, use the word to read how you are. And in a way it's a bit like, you know, you learn to, as you said earlier, sort of to, it becomes more nuanced, your ability to sense and to tune in to where you're at. So then you can do something that's appropriate and not be just going hell for leather and then you're just draining yourself, you know. So I always think one of the things I say is, you know, slow is the new advanced. And you know, that's a T shirt right there, isn't it? Yeah. And feeling is healing and that's another one of my favorites, you know, so really if you've got your breath and you're listening to your breath, because your breath is like a barometer. So if your breath gets short and choppy, then you need to back off a bit. If you're listening to your breath and you've really learned to do that, then that shows you've got an advanced practice rather than that you can get your leg behind your head. And the interesting thing is that we often override that. Even if those messages are available to us at all times, even if we have done it before and we know how to do it. It's so easy to override it with the schedule, isn't it? I think we're so achievement driven in our society and I think that we rush and as you say, we don't really feel what we're doing and that's the way into injury really. And even a lot of yoga teachers do that because they want to be better and to be more flexible or what it is, and they're not really listening and people get injured, you know, and people become ill as well if they're doing that to their nervous system, their immune system, they get burnt out. Yeah, yeah, definitely, Absolutely. What if someone is listening right now and they are at the stage where they have illness in their body and they want to heal from it. What would be your advice around that? Because again, we can feel very deflated and defeated and scared when we're ill. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a life threatening illness, but still any kind of illness just reminds us of our vulnerability as humans and the fact that we're not here forever. What would be your advice to someone who's feeling that? Well, I think just put a little time aside, even five minutes in the day where you just lie down on the floor and you maybe bend your knees and take some deep breaths and you can do some very simple stretching exercise, you know, sort of like even on hands and knees, stretching your spine a little bit and child pose and these kind of things just Five minutes for yourself to really tune in and then make that into a habit, you know? Yeah. And just. And as you were saying, just slow it right down. Because I see that with a lot of people who, for example, come to me because they want to get a record deal or they want to write a book or they want to do something big and fancy. And that's kind of what I specialize in. I specialize in the big and fancy. Yes, we make your dreams come true. But it's exactly the same thing. I say to them, let's get it right. Let's slow it down. Let's not go and make a hundred of the wrong phone calls. Let's really do the thinking and let's make one right phone call and let that phone call stick and let that phone call lead to where it is that you want to be. So it's kind of interesting that, that it's kind of the same thing. It's the same wisdom. Really. Yeah, absolutely. And there are some really good online tools. I mean, I've signed up recently to Movement for Modern Life. I'm not on it or anything, but just because there are such a variety of classes on there and there are lots of other things you can find classes to do online. And maybe start with something that's just releasing out the shoulders or something very slow and simple, a 15 minute practice and not getting frustrated when it's not a big complicated thing or when it takes a little time for it to build. Yeah, less is more sometimes. Yeah. Beautiful, right? We're gonna have way more with Caroline after the break on how you can get your body to be your own best friend. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website, womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don't know where to start. @empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Ann Kelleher. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months, I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops, interviewing customers asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip. For our listeners, the most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together with spoonfuls of our vices. Incredible stories. It will be refreshing, honest and funny. Look at being a mum. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity, helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help visit turntous.org.uk welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station can give voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programmes, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's well being. Welcome to Judy Mayers Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. And today we are transforming the body and everything else then starts to transform based on that. We know this. We know that when our body feels really good, we make better decisions. Our relationships improve, our businesses improve, our way of being in our communities improve. So really this is a great starting point. And Caroline taught. I love the way you. I love that the fact that your name is Tauts. They say that like the idea that the word taught is in there and that your whole life is about making things untense. I just, I adore that actually. There was a book that talked about how people tend to go for different professions that are in line with their names. So if someone has the name Baker, they are more likely to be a pastry chef than someone who doesn't have the name Baker. I thought that was fascinating. But when we're talking about the body and we're talking about all the different ways that we can get back in touch with the body and heal the body, and the fact that we can do it at any age and the fact that we need to do it before it's too late. So we're not always just sort of in crisis intervention mode. What would you say have been the latest understandings or the latest new ways of teaching us how to move our bodies? What excites you out there in the world right now? I think the kind of influence of somatic movement training, which is coming in a lot more now, which is basically to do with really slowing things down and listening. And there are some fantastic exercises which come really from Feldenkrais. And in my early training I did quite a lot of Feldenkrais work, which is sort of these very slow, let's say it's a way of actually becoming aware of the movement habits that you have. Because unless you are aware of your habits, you can't really undo them. And so rather than trying to undo them through a mental process, it's more like just actually feeling, what are my habits, how do I hold my shoulders or how do I, you know, move my neck or my legs? And so just by tuning in and actually doing these very simple movements, you can start to become aware of your habits. And then, strangely enough, they start to change, because through awareness, things change. So I think that now a lot more people are using the word somatic awareness in their yoga. And I think that's one of the things that is very useful because it takes us away from all that speedy rushing, just focusing on a workout, which again often tends to be more about external view of the body and trying to change your body into something that looks good on the outside. And this is more about learning to look good or feel good on the inside. I think the fear that a lot of people will have listening to that is that it won't work. It won't get them the result. If what they want is to have an amazing body, they will say, no, then I don't want to do that work. But in fact, doing that work will bring you to that result that you want. But also on the journey, you'll realize that you don't need that result as much as you thought you needed it. I think also it's about having different Tools in the toolbox, you know, and we've had the tool of the kind of very fast stuff out there a lot. And it doesn't mean you can't do it. I think actually, in a way, it means you can do it better. Because now you've got this ability to switch on and off, you know, from that we were talking about having a lot of muscle tension and having sort of none at all. And obviously you need some. But it's about, how can I be more economical and versatile? So with the somatic awareness, you begin to be aware of how much you actually need to use. And sometimes you might be using way too much in your practice, which actually could make you feel very stiff and uncomfortable. So there is a balance to be had, I think. I think they say that for all different kinds of experts, that to become truly experts say as a musician, you've got to go right back to the basics of the technique, how your body's interfacing with the instrument. You know, as a singer, you go right back to, you know, where is the voice coming from. As a painter, you go right back to drawing a circle. And so it sounds like that. It sounds like it's not just simplistic totally, but it really is. In order to get to those deeper levels of expertise, you need to slow it down. Because I imagine speed can kind of bypass a lot of mistakes that you can miss a lot when you're going fast. All the details, in a way. And I was recently, I was teaching someone who was a viola player from the Frankfurt Symphony Orchestra, and he said he found the somatic work really helpful because it helped him to be able to play without so much tension in his body. And he was a really amazing player. So that's a good example of how slowing it down and just being more aware of how much tension you have could actually produce a very different sound for someone playing an instrument. And then I was teaching someone who was a neurosurgeon, and he was finding that he had a lot of tension in his neck, which was quite funny, really. Sort of ironic for someone who's, you know, who's working on people's brains. But, you know, he actually laughed when I said to him, you're far too attached to your head, you know. You know, but there is this kind of way of holding the head that people do when they're very cerebral. So, you know, if you're working a lot mentally in your job, then often the head is sort of being really held onto. But actually, you need to relax and similarly, you know, I was working with someone who was a dentist recently who spends a lot of time crouching over in very sort of small, detailed work. And I do quite strong active work with him, but just really resetting the whole structure. So you're sort of trying to iron out some of those patterns that can, you know, where the twists happen in the body and things like this. And he's found that really, really beneficial. I love the idea as well that it's because these bodies are so expert in something that they just become like almost too good at it. And it's reached a stage where being too good at that way of moving is now detrimental to how great your body could be. It's exactly that. It's not that something's broken, it's that something was working too well. And now we have to remember everything else that's available to the body. It's a kind of more holistic approach in a way, because often we focus on what we're doing. For example, if someone like a doctor, they're very, very focused in their work and so the body is really just coming in to help them in that task. Whereas actually then in everyday life they're finding that hinders just natural movement. So then we need to be able to switch into another way of being. So it's having that holistic approach to movement and doing it in a way that is non critical. Absolutely, yeah. Because it's really about a sort of a curiosity and maintaining that playful curiosity, you know, so that you can do lots of different things. And I think that with myself, you know, after so many years of doing yoga, I thought, well, I'm a bit bored with this, this now, you know, I need to go and play. And I put these gymnastic rings up in my garden. And bear in mind I'm not that young anymore, you know, but I just thought, all right, I'm going to go and hang a bit and swing and hang and, you know, or do some skipping. And it's really about mixing it up and having. Doing lots of different things and having some fun. Yeah, Just remembering that there's joy to be got from the body that we can actually, you know, run around and laugh. Particularly those of us who didn't get to do that as much as we would have liked as kids or dance. Dance, yes, yes, absolutely. I remember one time a yoga teacher came over when we were doing some sort of exercise to loosen out the hips. And I've always had incredibly tight hips. And so I was expecting something to be said along the Lines of, oh, well, right, you need to do this more or you like. I was expecting a critical comment just because that's what I'd had all my life. Anytime anyone was referencing my body, it was in a critical way. And she actually said. She goes, oh, your legs are doing. Your hips are doing a great job of keeping your legs attached or something like that. And I just thought, what a wonderful way to look at it. And she goes, so we need to just tell your hips that they can relax a little bit more, that you know, that you've got it, that it's all good. And. And that idea of speaking to my hips saying, it's okay, you don't have to work so hard was so much better than this idea of, my hips are wrong, my legs are wrong, I'm wrong, my life is wrong. And all the stacking that we often do that comes from our bodies. I agree. I think how we think about ourselves often creates how we move and how we are. There's some great work by a guy called Stephen Baybrook called BrainMove, and he does lots of exercises on that. Just rethink yourself, you know. And so I often think, you know, I am relaxed. I say to myself, that's a good one. You know, I am relaxed just to remind myself I can be if I choose to be. And when I'm moving in the yoga practice, as you say, those critical thoughts that sometimes come in when we're doing things, I'm not good enough or I'm not enough, as good as that person next to me. And we compare ourselves, and really it's irrelevant because we're all so unique. Whereas if we sort of say, you know, this feels good and start to notice ourselves and reframe it a little bit, and even if you don't really believe it at this moment in time, you can still say that. And I really like the idea of just, you know, you can ask the question, even if there isn't an answer, about how does this feel right now? Just so that the question is there. And something that just struck me as you were speaking was the idea of a lot of women listening to this will identify as being codependent where other people's existence and other people's lives feels more real or more important or more urgent than our own. And so it seems to me that this is like a really fundamental way for us to get back inside our own lives. Exactly. And start to reclaim them. Step one, reclaim your own breath, reclaim your own body. Sort of say, well, what is it like being me. But when we do that very often, then all the yucky stuff kind of rises to the surface and we start to, you know, that there can be sort of a grieving that needs to be done. And so I think a lot of people avoid working out and avoid yoga and avoid slowing down simply because the moment they do this stuff that they don't want to look at starts rising to the surface. And I think it's important to know that that stuff, it's not going to stay there forever if you actually allow it to rise up. Things have to float up sometimes. And actually we need to recognize the wisdom of being able to feel our feelings and let them rise up and then they can almost dissipate from that place. Yeah. Because it does feel like everything bad feels like it's gonna be endless. It feels like it's never gonna heal. Feels like it's always gonna be this. And so that's just so important to remember that, you know, these baby steps that it does end up being radically, radically different. So coming up after these, we're gonna be talking more to Caroline about how is it that we can really start to heal. Welcome to Women's radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on. Welcome Women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Tracey Weedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award winning family run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth and fine art. You can contact us on 0208-658-4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free no obligation quotation at Brownhills. We've got you covered. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on Women's radio station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything, fertility, pregnancy, birth and baby related right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and Fun Hour. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover and mental health advocate and you can listen to my show get booked here at Women's Radio station daily at 5am and 5pm throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch@presentersomensradiostation.com join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@media mattersforwomen.org you're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadio station. That's WomensRadio stn or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome back. Remember, we're here live every Monday at noon, from noon till one, and that you can then listen to us on repeat as well. Sometimes there's so many ideas in a show that you want to listen to it again and the repeat is on at midnight and noon every single day for the rest of the week. And today we have in studio Caroline Tortz who is helping us to unpack this idea of really getting in touch with our body and all the different benefits to using the body to heal and how holistically that can then improve our whole lives and how that there's benefit in the sort of faster, stronger, better, bigger model, but also to become real experts in living life. We also need to have in our toolkit the idea of slowing it down, connecting, allowing things to happen rather than forcing them to happen. And Caroline, you and I were talking earlier about how we're quite introverted and how would you say that this, my belief is that this is really, really important for introverts and for highly sensitive people, even more so because it's all sort of heightened. So, you know, when we get tense, we get very tense. When we get sad, we get very sad. Have you seen a difference between people who are more extrovert and more introvert in the way that people need to treat their bodies? Yeah, I think if you are introverted, you really need to take care of yourself because you're probably taking in a lot of information during the day. You know, you may be overstimulated and you need to have time out really with your body. And that's been my experience where I just really allow some stillness and some quiet time. Whereas, you know, people who are more extrovert deal really, really well with going out there and having, being in an intense environment with lots going on and maybe intense exercise and all this kind of stuff. Whereas I really benefit now from looking after my body, you know, having massages and just time alone. And what would you say is going to be a really good next wave for people when it comes to how they view their bodies, their relationship with their bodies, their identity for themselves as a physical person? I think first of all, we need to actually know ourselves. It's like know your nature. You know, it took me a long time to realize I was a sort of introverted person. And I think having, having realized that now I'm sort of taking more steps to take care of myself. And I think, oh well, I haven't had enough time out of the company of other people, for example. So I think that's the first thing is just to know your nature and then sort of slightly change the way that maybe that you do things. Depending on the kind of life that you live, even with your own family, you know, you might need to have time out from your own family, for example. Some people are like, amen sister, Hallelujah, yes, time out from the family. But what does that mean when it comes to our, our life in a more holistic way? Because we are sort of trained to look at the superstars and see them being very toned, living very, very fast lives. Is it necessarily the case that our lives are going to be less? Are you talking about us accepting that we need to have less in life? I think there is some of that because I think that this emphasis, as you say, on this kind of hyper toned, fantastic life that we imagine that other people are living, but maybe it's not always the case that they really are, but I think it's not that you can't go out there and be all of that. It's just that you need to, in a way, put time aside to refuel yourself. That's the main thing. I think you can do it all, but you just need to make sure you, you're having the correct balance in place and not spending too much time where you're being drained. And one thing that you do beautifully, where people are able to really focus on their bodies and on themselves and on their healing and on their lives, is that you run these great yoga practices around the world in beautiful locations, places like Sardinia, Spain. And what is the benefit of that? What is the benefit of taking an entire week away in order to do this work? Actually, I think that's one of the things I've discovered that giving yourself that time, the sort of permission to have time away, where you're really just focusing on your practice or maybe having a rest or being out in nature is really, really important. There's nothing like doing yoga outside by the sea. I absolutely love it. I think it sort of opens up everything. You can feel your connection to the earth. You can hear the soothing sounds of nature. And it's really different to the way that we normally live in a city where we just go into a yoga studio with lots of other people. It's almost like time slows right down and often the classes are longer as well. So you can take more time and you can spend much longer at the beginning and at the end doing the slow bits. And then you can still work intensively as well. So, you know, there are lots of options. And as well, I imagine that it's a very supportive atmosphere because a lot of people don't look at the idea that the people around them and whether they are toxic people or just absent people or people who are non supportive, that, that actually has a huge effect on the cellular body because we are sort of on high alert all the time, unconsciously knowing that, you know that, that it's not completely safe as an environment. Whereas when you take yourself away with supportive people, you get to feel maybe for the first time ever that this is what it can feel like. Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes people form incredible relationships in these types of environments because, because they're surrounded by this feeling of kindness and nurturing and also openness to emotions. So everybody is in the same boat if you like. They're all there allowing themselves to have this time. And so it feels very open, very accepting. And I think that's a real treat. I think we all Need a bit more of that. And if anyone wants to follow Caroline, they can do it on Instagram at carotouts. So it's C A R O T A U T Z. Did I get that right? That's right. Let me say it one more time. C A R O T A U T, Z. And what I love about your photographs on Instagram is that you're clearly not trying to over impress us. Yeah. Like you're finding a beautiful place and you're obviously enjoying that space and often there's other people around or animals around and. And you're really just showing this is what's possible for all of us. It's not sort of like. And starring Caroline doing another impossible pose. I try to sort of slightly veer away from the whole, you know, contortionist, bendy yoga thing. It's not that I don't find it interesting to look at people's bodies and what they can do. It's always amazing. But I think sometimes it just makes us feel insecure and actually really we want to be more authentic to who we really are. So I just feel like if I can be, you know, ordinary is beautiful as well. And, you know, there's lots to be had in just that. Well, it's not that it's ordinary in a way because, you know, often I'll take pictures of really beautiful things, but I just want it to have an honesty to it, a sort of truthfulness. That's exactly what comes across, is that the truthfulness of the beauty. And you're not setting it up particularly, so you're just showing us it's there. And who doesn't need that constant reminder of you don't need to over earn your place at the table. The beauty that is in you, that is you, is always available. And even just because people are missing it doesn't mean that it's not there. No, exactly. It's really just showing up for yourself. And you know, I have lots of pictures of my cats as well because I do love cats. And that idea, though, of showing up for yourself. A lot of women don't have a strong enough self in order to start showing up for the self. So they're listening to us right now and they're thinking, you know what I would love to do? I would love to do yoga. I'd love to do what Caroline's been talking about. I'd love to try all that, but I've got kids, but I've got too much work to do or I'll do it when this thing is finished in work. What would you say to anyone who is not prioritizing themselves and their body? I think it's really important to give yourself that time. And as I said before, it's just even a small amount of time can be like a little seed, a little pearl that you can just put in there for yourself and kind of give you some energy going forwards. And I think, you know, just lie down on the floor and relax your body, take some deep breaths. You can do some very simple, simple movements with your back arching your spine and then flattening your back, breathing in and breathing out. That could be one thing you could do to relax. And then I was saying earlier to you about legs up the wall posts. Judy May, my favourite. Yeah, might be a good one to do just to get the blood flowing to the heart. And that's where we're lying on our back L shape and our legs are just up the wall that' supported. But also that inversion is giving us that benefit. It's really restful for the legs. You know, we're on our feet a lot during the day. So to take the weight off the feet and really appreciate the work your legs are doing for you for five minutes would be a great thing. Oh, wonderful. Caroline, it has been so great to have you on the show today. As I was saying to you in all of the breaks, this is exactly what I needed today. I feel like this is a personal gift for me. So thank you so much for coming in and also being such a great gift to all of the listeners. And remember that here on Judy Mae is listening. This is about you. So every single time we are crafting the show around what it is that you're telling us. So do get in touch and we will see you all next week live at noon. Until then, take care. Thank you. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start. At empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Ann Kelleher. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months, I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops, interviewing customers asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip. For our listeners, the most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together. With spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories. It will be refreshing, honest and funny. Look at being a mum. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand. With a wide range of of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs. We can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com women's radio station supporting women's wellbeing.