Kitchen Sink Spirituality – Steven

This is women's radio station. You're listening to Avril Price, Kitchen Sink Spirituality. And this is the voice of holistic London. And welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining me today. And I'm really, really happy to be able to introduce you to a bright star in the tarot world. We have the very lovely Stephen Bright. Hi, Steven. Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. And I know that we're going to have a really smashing time this afternoon because we're going to be talking tarot. We're going to be talking about you and your tarot journey, and we're going to be talking about your beautiful tarot deck spirit within Tarot. Yep. Okay, so kick us off. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you, Stephen? Well, I've been reading tarot for probably about 21 years now, and I say 21 years. Obviously, I began knowing absolutely nothing about tarot. Tarot. My beginning in tarot was quite unglamorous, quite unspiritual. I found tarot in a supermarket, of all places. I'd been out on a Friday afternoon to buy the stuff for my dinner and just happened to see a deck in there and popped it in the trolley. Which deck was it? It was. It was just one of those very basic kits by Jonathan D. Oh, right. Okay. Probably know it's still. Still in print, I think. Okay. And took it home that evening after I had dinner with my friends. We just looked through the cards a little bit, and I look back sometimes and I think to myself, I can't believe what such an impulse purchase has done for me. You know, it's changed my life in so many ways. Yeah. And I love hearing about people's stories about how they. They get connected to tarot because I'm a big believer that tarot finds us. We don't find tar Tarot. Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's a. It's a typical type of person that, that works with Tara. They're usually very visual, very much on the coal face. They, you know, they absorb all the life experiences and then they kind of spill that out into their tarot work. Do you find that for yourself? Do you find that, you know, you. You're able to work with your life experiences? Does Tara reflect that for you? I think so. And I often look back as well at different things in my life that I used to do when I was younger, which was almost a little bit like using tarot cards. I used to shuffle up the CD and I would put them on And I would say to myself, you know, the next song is going to be about how my career is going to go, or, you know, am I going to find the person that I really want to be with? And the next song would come up and it would be like a message that was meant to be. So I think that tarot was in me long before I found a deck of cards. That's a lovely description. That's what I mean. I think that tarot finds the person. It's almost like, you know, when tarot finally comes along into your life, it's like a piece fitting a jigsaw. Yeah. I think it's quite nice that I did just sit by chance like that and I had that kind of need for it, but I didn't know quite how desperate that need was. And obviously that would be my career one day, you know. Fabulous. So what did you do in the meantime? Because you strike me as being quite an artistic, creative person. I've done loads of things, but. Oh, my all ears, Stephen. The last thing I did, really, before the career that I have now was I was a designer, a menswear designer for the high street, and I spent four years studying and doing my degree in fashion and then went into that industry. So, you know, the fact that I have the spirit within out now, my learning of how to design and use all of those computer programs to design spirit within came from my background in fashion. Oh, that's very interesting. So it's almost like transferable skills. Yeah. And that, you know, and that. Because I've got to say, the deck that you've designed, it is really unique. I don't think there's anything like it on the market at the moment. So I'm really looking forward to chatting to you about that in a little bit. So what else did you do then? Come on, come fill us in. What, before that? Oh, my God, I've. I've done loads of jobs. I was. I worked in a bank when I left school. I worked in insurance, art galleries. You've done lots of things? I've done lots of. Yeah, lots of things. Now, you and I met, if I remember rightly, at the Tarot Festival. That's right, yeah. Which is on again this year. And I suggest that everyone look out for it because it's just a fabulous day out, isn't it? Yeah, it was when you were speaking. I was indeed, yeah. But I think that for me, the Tarot Festival was a pretty good reflection of the London Tarot community, of which I think you've Been quite involved because you seem to know everybody well. You know, I mean, years and years ago I was part of the online community through blogging, and then years before that through forums and lists of kinds online. So even though it kind of feels like I've just evolved, you know, just. Just turned up with spirit within, I've been around for quite a while. Yes. And I think, you know, nothing happens overnight, does it? Absolutely not. And I think that I've learned over the years that everything is actually a process, you know, particularly in our world, that, you know, I'm a great believer in this saying that repetition makes you a master. So you kind of just keep doing things and you keep in it, and before you know it, you kind of got to a whole new level. And I feel that's where you're at. And I think it's almost like this deck is saluting that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I suppose it's kind of like anything. I suppose if you spend a lot of time studying for a job or something, you know, the job is not the first part you have all of those years before. And I think, you know, what I'm doing now has a big foundation of meeting people over the years of learning different systems, reading different books, writing different things, and exploring different stuff within tarot, you know, whether that's creatively or sitting down and really learning all of the different meanings for tarot and different systems. Which brings me to something that I want to ask you is do you stick to traditional meanings or do you find that you're able to work in your own individual applications? I'd say it's about half and half. You know, I do. I do like the Rider Waite Smith system. You know, if I'm going to buy a deck, if I'm going to design a deck, most of the time that's probably the system I would choose. But when I actually work, something else takes over. You know, you. You start with those meanings and you have them as an anchor, perhaps, but then your intuition kind of steps forward and starts to provide you with something else. You know, I think that's where the magic works within tarot. I've got to say, I've got to agree with that because I think the traditional meanings are really important. I think having years of teaching tarot, I find that teaching intuitive tarot can just be so nebulous and you can waste a lot of time. Whereas I think if you start off with the traditional meanings, it kind of inspires you to think outside the box. And then before you know, it You've kind of layered it with your own insights. Yeah, absolutely. And so I think you're quite right when you're saying it's like a little bit of each because, you know, you're sticking to the tried and tested, but it kind of gives you a framework within which to work with your own understanding of the archetypes and the symbolism and you can bring in your own little nuances. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I always say to people when I'm teaching, you know, this is what I see a card as meaning traditionally. But, you know, I want you to kind of layer it up with your own personal experience, you know, make it personal. And I think once that you understand a card personally, then you have a better way of being able to explain it to somebody else. If you understand that the pain of a certain card or the happiness involved with a certain image, because you can base it on your own experience, then you have a better way of helping somebody else with understanding that card and working through the issues that the card brings. Fabulous. Stephen, for our listeners, can you perhaps explain why would anyone want a tarot reading? What can a tarot reading do for somebody? I think people come to me for a lot of different reasons. I think sometimes people just want a little bit of pampering. You know, they want to spend an hour talking about themselves because they spend so much time with the children or going to work. They just want to kind of step out of their normal day to day life and think about them, have something that's about them. So it's a little bit, I guess, like going to have your nails done. But then I have people come to me with specific problems, you know, that they want an answer to. And my job then is to help them unlock the blockages, you know, and find ways forward. And tarot can help with that process? I think so, yeah. How does it do that? Do that? I think that, you know, the tarot is very much. I always look at the tarot as being like 78 different keys. And, you know, some have been pressed, some have not been pressed at all. Some have been, you know, they're just waiting to, to be pressed. And I think that the tarot helps to find those places in, with people that they might not find in other situations or other conversations. I really get you when you saying that, because I find with tarot they are like keys. I like to describe them as keys. And I think what they do is they unlock our own inherent wisdom because I think we've already got the answers. But it's so buried under layers of living and what else? That's a long way down. So it's almost like tarot helps us get into that and kind of reclaim that wisdom and so we can then empower ourselves with that. Definitely. And I just think, you know, a lot of people don't have the opportunity to have those those buttons pressed perhaps in their day to day life. And coming for a reading is a nice, safe and gentle place to do that. Very nice. Okay Stephen, I think we're now going to go to about break and we shall be right back in a few minutes. Hi, I'm Sarah Austin and I'm the founder of the really Helpful Club, an online and offline community that helps supports and connects thousands of women in our personal and business lives. We are buzzing. 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If you would like to know more about stepping into our pink shoes, then look at the business opportunity page on our website. Live laughloveladies.club. also at women's radio station. Women's Radio Station can give a voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities including individual programs, we can tailor your experience to you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com this is Women's Radio Station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality and we have the very gorgeous Stephen Bright with us. And we have been talking tarot and all things spiritual. So, Stephen, let's go to the exciting bit. I'm dying to talk to you about your deck. Okay, so your deck is Spirit Within Tarot. First of all, let's start with the title. So why Spirit Within Tarot? It actually started out being Spirit within the Shadows. Oh, cool. And I kind of realized at the time that that was quite a long title. One of the things about this, you know, being a deck creator, if you've got quite a lot of experience of buying decks yourself, you know, what's easy to find online, you know, what's a good kind of catchy title. And I knew that it needed to be pulled down a little bit, you know, shortened. Also, I'd seen a talk from the Matthews, and they'd been saying that, you know, you really want something that's not going to be too long when, you know, you don't want to be googling Spirit within the Tarot in the Shadows. Tarot Spirit Within I like so much more because it's kind of. It could be read in a few different ways. So it could be Spirit Within Tarot or it could be Spirit within the Tarot. You know, so you kind of get two different ways of looking at that. You see, I was very drawn to the title because that's one of the things I talk about a lot is the spirit Within. And I think Taro is very good embodying spirit, whether it's spirit that's gone upstairs or whether it's spirit that's still here on the physical plane. And Tarot can tell a journey of what it is to be spirit in human form. And also, I get into this thing about everything is spirit. There's the spirit of a situation or the spirit of a thing, so on and so forth. And so I thought, this is a great title. I've got to check this deck out. And I've got to say, it's an absolutely beautiful deck and very original. And it's a shame that this isn't television because I'd love to show the listeners what it looks like. So if I can just kind of describe it for our listeners. I've noticed that it's. It seems to be color coded. Is that right? It is in the minors, yeah. And can you explain a little bit about that? Well, this is one of those things because I've been buying tarot for many, many years, and I have a lot in my collection. I kind of know what I like in a reading. And one of the things that I like about color coding is that if you have reading where there is a larger amount of cups, cards, or water cups, you can really see it if you've got them all washed with blue and the same with a really fiery reading all in red, or you would have a very practical, earthy reading in green. So I quite like the idea of miners being colored in that way so that you can really get an idea of what's either there or what's lacking when you're reading bigger spreads. So, for example, the cups suit. Cups is water, and it's to do with your emotions and your creativity. You see, I would describe that color as kind of like a pale amethyst. Or is it kind of like an indigo kind of blue? Isn't it an indigo blue? I love that. Yeah, indigo blue. And so that's for the cups and then for the pentacles. Pentacles are to do with the earth and our physical life and so on and so forth. And you've got green. I think that kind of speaks for itself, really, doesn't it? Yeah, very earthy, very grounded. And then we have wands. Wands are very fiery. And to do with our passion and our ideas. You've got this lovely light pale orange. Yeah, it's kind of like a burnt kind of color. A kind of burnt orange color. Burnt orange. Love it. You can see the designer in you. And what else have we. Oh, swords. This is an unusual color. What would you describe this color as? It's not quite yellow, is it? It's a kind of a. It's kind of a bit of a greeny yellow, actually. But I. I kind of think of the sharpness of the intellect when I think of. It's meant to be a kind of a yellowy color. Uhhuh. And because swords are to do with the intellect, aren't they? They to do with our mental processes. It's amazing how many people you get swords in a. In a spread and go all backstabbing. Oh, yeah. It's not at all, is it? But some of those cards as well. I mean, we, you know, if you look into the swords cards, some of them do have that kind of very. A little bit of a greeny, muddy color as well. Because we do perceive swords as being difficult cards. They are. Because often our thoughts are our own worst enemies. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, swords can teach us, or the suit of swords can teach us a lot about how we can perhaps change our thoughts sometimes if we need to. But that's a Whole different story. Yeah. So the next thing about this deck, which is really, really intriguing, is it's all in silhouette. Yeah. And I find it really fascinating because when I first saw this, I thought, oh, I'm going to have to work really hard to kind of get into this deck. But it's not the case at all. In fact, if anything, it's easier because you're not kind of distracted by any other background stuff that's going on, because, you know, as I think I said earlier in our conversation, that some of the decks, and I don't mean this disrespectfully to their designers at all, but some of them are so busy, they're a bit like soap operas. Yeah. Whereas this is not a busy deck at all. It's very contemplative, actually, in a very beautiful way. I wanted it to be simple but not simplistic. Yeah. So I wanted, you know, for a reader to be able to have a bit of a space when they're reading, so they can really digest the colors, really digest the body language, you know, the feel of the cards. And I think sometimes when you've got a lot going on, it's just too much for, you know, you can't relax in the reading and just let the messages blow out in the way that they should. Oh, absolutely. I think that's so very cool, actually. And why the silhouettes? One of the things. I mean, you've probably bought a lot of tarot decks in your time, too, and you must have had that experience when you look through and you say, God, I really love this tarot deck, but I can't get around the face on the Queen of Pentacles or something. She just does not look how I would like her to be. With this deck, the queen of Pentacles can pretty much be whoever you want her to be. And every time you look at her, she could be somebody else, she could be you, she could be your mother, she could be somebody in spirit. And I think that's why silhouettes work so well, because for every single person that uses that, they see a different face, a different figure, a different personality. Mm. And I'm just remembering a conversation that we had very recently about projection, about how when we read a card and it's about how we apply a meaning to a card, and that because of the silhouettes, it kind of changes how we apply that meaning, perhaps, would you say? I think it certainly means that, you know, it's very fluid in terms of the kind of people that show up in the cards. Definitely. As I was saying to you earlier, there are people in those cards that I've put there intentionally because they modeled for me, but there are a lot of people that weren't put there. And I see friends, I see family members. I see my father when he was young in one of those cards, and it was never intended. So I like the fact that the silhouette allows it to be very flexible. It also transcends race some place, it transcends gender. You know, it really is a deck that's inclusive for everybody. I'm glad you've said that, because I wanted to talk to you about gender specifics because, you know, in. In many decks, you know, the woman is definitely the woman, and the guy is definitely the guy. And there's something, you know, you know, very definite about the story that that gender is bringing. But because it's silhouette, you've still got the feminine figure, and you've still got the masculine figure, but it's not kind of overlaid with stereotypical accents on gender. No, no. Was that deliberate? I don't think that it was. I think I just worked in a certain way. And I think you have these. You know, it's really wonderful, especially at the moment when I look on social media and people upload videos about the deck, and they'll say things like, oh, the ten of pentacles. You know, I. I love. No, the ten of cups. I love how in that card we have two men. And I kind of think, well, I didn't intend it to be, but, you know, people are already layering up with their own way of seeing it, which I think is just great. And I thought. I think, you know, for example, I'm looking here at the image of the queen of swords. And I've got to say, listeners, you must check this deck out if you're into tarot, because it's really rather beautiful, as I said, in a very reflective way. And you kind of gaze into this kind of shape. And the queen of swords, I've got to say, she's one of my favorite queens. I mean, for the fact that she's even called a bitch queen to start with. Well, this is it. I love it. But you don't see it in this. It's devoid of all these handles. And I like what the queen of swords represents because she's, you know, she's got some brains and she's a survivor, and she's a bit of a tough cookie, but because she's had to be. And if I look at this image of this silhouette, she looks like she's thoughtful, she looks like she's been creating something. She's got lots of these lovely windows, these lovely arched windows around her. So she needs a light in the world. And of course she's got the sun coming up in these, in the window shapes. Can you tell us a little bit more about the Queen of Swords? Of course. I mean, I really, this was a card that I really thought about before because I think personally that the Queen of Swords gets a bit of a bad deal. She does. I think she's wonderful. She's so often that the battle axe. And I kind of think, you know, at the end of the day this woman's a nurturer and she's a nurturer of thoughts. She's a great communicator, she's a big thinker. You know, she might be harsh sometimes, but she's doing it because she cares. So you often see in decks these, these really harsh looking pictures. You have beautiful Queen of cups, you know, they're looking all romantic and gorgeous by the water and then you have this half bitten woman in the corner who just looks terrible. And I thought I didn't want that. So in mind, she's, she is sitting there protecting her words and nurturing them. She's working at a compute. But you'll notice also just in the corner she has a sword and it's just touching the desk. You know, it's just lent up. If she needs it, she'll use it. Indeed. And that's what we love about her. And she's still beautiful. She is indeed. And I think we're gonna go to a break now, so we'll be back in a few minutes. Hollywood Babes is a unique ladies wear boutique situated in Thought Bay Broadway in South End. On sound, we carefully select all our lines and offer you only the very best in women's clothing. 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And just before we move on to another card, I just want to say how refreshing it is to see modern things included in the imagery, like the computer. I mean, that, that's just really good because, you know, many of the other decks, they're still quite medieval in their imagery, so it's great to have something a little bit more contemporary. I love that. You know, I really like those old decks. You know, I've been using them for many, many years. But, you know, we do live in 2018, so what's wrong with having a DJ for temperance and, you know, all of these, these modern things like a skateboard for the chariot that I have also. Yeah, because we can kind of relate to that, I think, much more readily than we can with the medieval stuff, which is all very charming and beautiful and it kind of gives us an idea how old our spiritual heritage is and how old the traditional symbolism is. But it's great to contemporize it and to encourage it to catch up with us. So really well done with doing that, I have to say, in many ways, you know, I mean, everything from tradition is there. It's just given to you in a different way. I just want to reflect for another couple of minutes back on this whole topic agenda again. Because, you know, being silhouettes, they've got no facial features, and it's all in kind of like shadow and shape. And the figures in tarot are not gender specific anyway. So a male image can be equally applicable to a female and vice versa. But here I've got the King of Cups. And I was just wondering, you know, and it does look quite kind of very male in its. In its outline and its form. And I was just wondering how that would work for a female. What's your experience of that? Have you. Have you found anything as you've done your readings with it, or does it just kind of work anyway? I think it just works anyway, to be honest with you. And a lot of people, I think because it is in silhouette like that, they kind of almost see those silhouettes as just being aspects of the. Their personality. You know, that we have this very masculine figure here. And, you know, the way that he's. I would draw more attention maybe to the cup that he's holding. The fact that he is probably more comfortable with it than some of the other members of the court you actually see him holding. It's a champagne flute, isn't it? So he holds it more casually than the other members in the court. It's smaller because he has that control. So, you know, for me, it's easier to describe that energy to someone because they're not looking at the face of a man who maybe looks like their father or their boyfriend or something like that. You know, this is just. It's the mood of the card. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know. You know, we all have masculine and feminine within us. And what would strike me if I produce this for a female client, it would certainly speak to me that she was being powered by her masculine drive at this particular time. And I love what you just said there, that we're not thrown off or enchanted by an image that looks like an ex or a father figure or some other significant person that you really do kind of tune into the masculine energy, which I think that's the. That's part of the key, don't you think? It's. It's that. That unlocks our ideas about who we are as people. A lot of people who have no experience of tarot but have worked with oracles have really been drawn to this deck because of the. The silhouettes, because they feel that they can read them and get the meaning from them without having to know anything about Tarot. And when I initially designed this, it wasn't meant to be published. I designed this for my blog. And because I knew that I was going to be using a lot of images of Tarot, I didn't want to get embroiled with copyright problems. So a friend of mine said, why don't you just create your own? So that's what I did. And I wanted to give people images which conveyed the meaning of all of the cards as simply as I possibly could. And I think that's why people find them so easy to work with. You know, I have to laugh. I've now look, I'm now looking at this King of Pentacles and I have to smile to myself. I mean, here we have this, this, this cameo of this fella who is lounging around on a chair. Why did you pick this particular pose? I just thought to myself, you know, this is when we have the Knight of Pentacles. We have somebody who's working really hard. You know, we kind of work our way up to the status of the king. And, you know, he's kind of done all of that running around and he's just sitting there. He's got his pentacle beside him, which looks like a trophy. He's on a nice old balcony. He's still in control, he's still in a good place, but he is in that kind of position where he can get somebody else to do the running around or a great position to be in. Yeah, absolutely. I'm not there yet, but. And I see you've got the nine and the ten of swords. Now, traditionally, when. Or I say traditionally, but when we draw these in a spread, people kind of recoil in horror. You know, they look kind of really dramatic. Because again, if I can describe to our listeners, it's a. In Stephen's deck, it's figure and there are swords poised above the figure in the 10, they've actually seem to be in the body and in the nine, they're kind of pointing down towards the body. What's your take on the nine and ten and swords? Do we. Should we be afraid of them? Because I've got to say, in your deck, they're not scary in the way that. Or off putting like they are in other decks, they're not. It's like something that you really want to consider when you look at, at your deck, the nine. I mean, whenever I look at the nine of swords, I always think to myself, you know, the good thing about these, these Swords. Is that they. Yeah, they're pointing down at the person, but they're not actually touching them. So a lot of the time it is our thoughts or our worries which can keep us locked in and fearful, even if those things never actually manifest in real life. But then when you get to the 10, well, they have locked in, you know, they have touched the person. It's over. But it's not over with the ten of swords, I feel. Yes, absolutely. And yeah, and you have, you really have to think about whether you're a victim or not sometimes. Yeah. So we can do a lot of great work with Tarot. And I think that this is for me, I think that I would love to work with this deck in terms of self development. I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure it'd be brilliant in readings, but it's so contemplative for me that I think, you know, if I was doing a personal spread, I would love to use this deck because I don't. It kind of, I think sort of when you, you're reading for yourself, you've got to face the truth because Tarot is very truthful because it mirrors exactly who you are. And I feel that with this deck you can absorb what the, the message of the Tarot cards without kind of wanting to move away from the truth. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I think so, but I certainly feel that this would be good for self journeying. Definitely. And I think once again, the silhouettes, you know, you might look at some of those figures and say, oh, that looks like someone that I know. But I think what they also do is I look at many of them and I think to myself, I see me there in that picture, you know, because we don't have the features. It's kind of, you know, you say, being like a mirror, we see ourselves in those silhouettes. Whether it's, you know, whatever gender it is, whatever age it is. Okay, well, I think we're going to go to another break now, so we'll check in in a minute. Sale, sale, sale. At Queenstyle furniture. Up to 50% off all our furniture styles. We've got new styles and traditional styles. Italian style and German styles. Styles for your living room or styles for your bedroom, dining room, table styles or a variety of lighting styles. Queen style furniture. Uxbridge Road, South Hall. We've got style. Ready for a challenge. Then take on the pink ribbon walk for breast cancer care coming to Oxfordshire and Essex this summer. We've got everything covered from snacks along the route to a massage and mass or when you cross the finish line. 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So what is your, what's an average day for you when you're doing consultations? What, what kind of questions come up for you and how, and how do the cars go about answering that sometimes? You know, I do have days where it's not readings all the time. I do a lot of mentoring as well, so I do one to one mentoring online, but in between that I do readings as well and the readings really, really vary. I have people who will just come to me every single year because they want a snapshot of where their life is. I have people who always come to me for a whole year's reading, so I'll pull a card for them for every month of the year so they kind of get a little bit of an idea, the energies that are coming up for each month. So you know, what can I really tap into that's going to help me this month? What might I need to avoid, who might I need to avoid, who can help me, that kind of thing. And then we have people that will come to me with specific questions. Will my, my ex love ever come back to me? Or does he say, I know, I know, but, you know, first of all, I will always ask people, why do you need him to come back to you? You know what, let's look at the backstory of this, because there are some questions that the cards can answer, but there are some questions that can be answered by common sense as well. So I don't allow the cards to be used just to answer any old question because I don't think that they always work for any old question. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. And also I think what clients need to be aware of that once you've asked that question, then you, the client, have to be responsible for the answer. Absolutely. And sometimes tarot doesn't always tell you what you want to hear. No. And if you're a good reader, you're not going to tell people what they want to hear, which can be a bit troublesome for us because it means we've got to be the voice of honesty and integrity. But that's the way it is. I also wanted to ask your opinion on prediction, because I don't think that either of us are fortune tellers. No. Although there are some very good ones out there, then there is a place for them. But there is a whole school of thought, I think, that suggests that a tarot reading should not have a. Or be predictive. What's your opinion on this? I agree with that, but I think at the same time, we often make predictions about realizing that we're making predictions, or at least that is for me. I. I will talk to people about stuff. I'll give details in readings about how things could manifest in the future. And sometimes just kind of happens that way. I've had so many phone calls or emails from people saying, you know, what you said turned out to be true. And, you know, that's great in some senses. I think maybe it's because people are more. They've listened to what I've said and they've changed them like their life themselves. And that's why things seem to be working out in their favor. I prefer to use the word foresight as opposed to prediction. Absolutely. Yeah. Because I think that what the cards do is that they give us an idea of what influences and trends are operating in our life. And I think if tarot can take us back to the past, then in some ways it can also point us to what is going to influence the future. Yeah. And I feel that we have to be a little bit careful with predictions because they're not cast in stone. No, you know, it was. Reminds me of. Have you ever seen Dragon's Den? Yes. And they say, you know, what are the predictions for your business? And they say, well, you know, in the first year I'm probably going to lose 100 grand, and then the next year I'm going to make four grand, and then by year three, I'm going to do this. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen, but they're moving in that direction. And the tarot helps you to move in a direction and to change your future. And that, you know, people forget that they have free will, and that is so much more powerful than prediction. And you can make quality life choices. Of course. Yeah. Although I think that it's arguable about free will. You know, when I look at the Chariot card in particular, it does bring the question, is there such a thing as free will? Because for me, the Chariot kind of signifies that we're susceptible to planetary movements. If that is the case, then is there such a thing as free will? Do you know what? This is such a conversation. We need a crate of wine, I think, to be able to get into the nitty gritty of it. But I think certainly let's accept the fact that we do have a free will. And I think the cards are really good at supporting us as we empower ourselves. Yeah. And sometimes just kind of helping you to. To see how you can write yourself in some way. You know, when the devil comes up and it's a card that a lot of people find very scary. I personally really like the more difficult cards because they. They give you something to do and the devil says, you know, you're. You're enslaved by something. What is it? What is it that you need to release yourself from? You know, what's keeping you down, what's keeping you unbalanced? And we all need to check in with that, I think, from time to time. Yeah, of course. Another thing that strikes me about your lovely day is that I feel that it would be very good for working with corporates. You know, getting back to this thing, talking about forecasting and foresight. Do you do a lot of corporate work? I don't know. Then I think you should. So if anybody's listening out there in the corporate world who would love a reading with Stephen, I think you should get in touch. Absolutely. So where do you see Tarot progressing then? Or how would you like to see Tarot progressing, generally, do you mean? Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of us are quite happy that it's becoming More of a day to day and recognized tool for people to work with. I don't feel that people are as scared of tarot as they once were. I think it seems it's quite a respectable thing to go to your reader or to have a deck of cards yourself. And I'm looking back now to 20 years ago when that was one of the goals for a lot of people. And I think that we're achieving that in terms of where. Where it's going. I guess more of that. I think certainly you have made a footprint in its progress by including or sort of. So I say rejigging some of the iconography in the cars to make them more contemporary. Yeah. And I certainly see that again, these cards could be used as creative prompts either for writing or designing or certainly putting you in touch with your own creative flow. For me, I'd like to see tarot used on a more creative basis. I think they're very good for storytelling, incidentally. And because the cards do have silhouettes, they flow very easily together. So if you lay out three cards, you can kind of almost see people moving towards each other. And some of the backgrounds and the landscapes do actually start to connect up as well. So you get a completely different reading. And we were talking about traditional meanings. That almost kind of goes out the window when you do that because you can see someone maybe stepping away from that guy with the swords in his back and you think, did that person put them there? So it really. It does aid the intuitive reader as well. But obviously it's great for anybody with a rider Waite Smith background. And I'm looking at this eight of pentacles. And again, I've got to smile to myself because I think that in this eight there is a little bit of you. I can see you, Stephen, because it's a picture of a chappie at a sewing machine. Yeah. Would this be you? Yes. So did you actually use a sewing machine in your. When you were in your fashion stuff, your design stuff? I designed and made all the clothes. How interesting. So, yeah, it's a little bit of a nod towards that. You know, it's. That is kind of a more of a personalized card because I remember the nights that I didn't go to bed and I stayed up all night sewing my collections together at university. And that's very much how I see the ace of pentacles, you know, that kind of trying and trying and working towards a goal. And I went back to do my degree when I was 30, I think something like that so for me, it was about learning a whole new skill. Yeah. And for our listeners, the. The eight of pentacles is the card of work. It's the card of being a master. It's the card of, you know, really having to knuckle down and do things in order to create a career goal or, you know, to fulfill your passion. And, you know, this is a prime example of how these silhouettes work, because you really do get a sense of this figure, you working away at the sewing machine, putting this design together. And you also get this sense that it hasn't happened overnight. No. And you have all of the pentacles hanging up on the wall, which symbolizes the amount of times he's had to do something to perfect it, you know, to get it to what it needs to be. Stephen, I've really, really enjoyed talking to you today. It's been wonderful, and I'm sure our listeners will have enjoyed it too. Where can people find you? I know you're available for consultations and I know that you're quite busy on social media, so perhaps if you could tell us how people can get in touch with you, that'd be really great. Yeah, Social media probably is the best place to find me. You can find me on Instagram. Stephen Bright uk. Yep, that's right. I get my own Instagram. Or you can find me on Facebook, which is pretty much the same. If you look for Stephen Bright Tarot, you'll find me there. Fantastic. And I really do hope that, you know, you make another deck after this one. Yeah, well, you know, I've kind of considered my next steps in terms of that, so I know you've had a bit of a journey with the publishers and one thing and another, but I think that's grist for the mills somehow, so. So I think, you know, after this, we can look forward to another one. Definitely. I mean, I've got a few. I've got a book coming out at the end of the year. Fabulous, hopefully. And I've got a few other projects, so once those are out of the way, I'm gonna get back to that computer again and another eight of Pentacles experience. Fantastic. Stephen, thank you so much for coming in today. It's been wonderful. Really good. Thank you. Thank you. Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand. Advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. 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