Love Lessons – Pickable Dating App, Empowering Women Online

Hi, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons. I'm here on women's radio station with Tamara Goldstein. Welcome. Thank you. Happy to be here. So exciting. This is the first time Tamara's been on the radio ever, ever, all the way from the States. You might hear our accent. Slightly American, slightly hard to miss. Tamara, who are you? Tell us. Oh, we just got existential. I am a New York girl who now lives in Los Angeles. I've spent the last 12 or 13 years working in finance and also dating. And so I just launched an app called Pickable a couple of weeks ago, and it's the first app where women can browse anonymously, so you're not revealing your face, your name, your age, your occupation, your school, and all of the personal details of your life to the entire user base of men on a dating app. This is the first time that that's been available, and it's based on my own experience and wanting to have a little bit more privacy around what is supposed to be your private life. Really interesting. There's kind of like a serious tone because you're saving on your digital footprint and what you put out there in the online dating sphere. But then there's also the fun element of it because it is the first kind of app to market of its kind, and it's very empowering for women. And we are all about women here at women's radio station, so I'm sure the women listening in are going to want to know more. So tell me where you launched here last night, which was a fun party, FYI. It was pretty fun. Thank you. Yeah. And so you just launched here, but where did you launch before that? The first launch was in New York City, which is my hometown. That was a lot of fun. We had such a great response. We saw twice as many women downloading the app, which was extremely validating, just because the majority of apps see a much different ratio, which is usually about 80% men. 70. 80% men. Seeing a much larger percentage of women on the app really proved out that there is a big market for this. I had a feeling I wasn't the only one feeling as though I didn't want to be on display in that fashion. So I'm going to read a quote. A dating app where girls shop around easily and guys stop swiping and browsing. Is that accurate? It is. It's actually a totally different format for men as well, which I think makes it doubly interesting. There's a lot of research that shows that men swipe Right on most of the profiles that they come across and then ultimately just end up wanting to choose from the women they match with. We are providing that platform basically on a silver platter. So now men are receiving incoming chat requests, which they can accept or decline. And that's the point at which you're connected and you're able to chat. But also men have a dashboard view, so it's a totally different experience. They're not swiping at all. They're just looking at the number of women that are online around them, the number of women who are looking at their profile, and the number of women who have requested to chat with them. And then it gives them a ranking in their vicinity based on those factors. Okay, so let's pretend for a moment that I am a guy. I log in, I identify as a male. Sorry, I'd like to talk about that later. Which was a really exciting part of the whole user experience. I liked how inclusive that was. And we'll talk about that later. So I identify as a male and then I put in what details, like normal dating app procedure is it for men? Men will put up a photo and then once they're in their settings, they have the option to add a description. Which guys most women prefer that they like to see a little bit of detail, FYI, FYI. And that's it. It's really simplistic and intentionally so. I don't know about your experience, but in my experience, and I think most people agree, one photo or five photos, you don't really have a sense of what somebody looks like and what they're like in real life without actually getting together and meeting the person and getting that chemistry. So we really want it to be simple. We want people to just connect immediately and start talking and making plans. Men also set themselves as pickable for a 24 hour timeframe. That's part of the app. And that's like a decision that a man makes saying, okay, I'm available, I can chat, I can meet up with someone. I'm making that choice to now be online and available for women to see. And really ideally eliminating that endless texting on the app and endless swiping, all of that is really intentional. So something that I spotted in the video about your app today, I think it was very self explanatory, but there was a few things that I picked up that I was kind of like, oh, that feels different and that has a standout ability. So as a male, when the chap in the video was browsing or you know, looking at his stats. Let's say his dashboard. Yeah, his dashboard. There you go. Guys love the competition of their ranking. By the way, it's fun to see the technical term the dashboard. So I'm on the dashboard and then I can see how many women are currently browsing my profile. My picture. Sorry, with my description. So the number that you see there, is that in a certain radius or proximity to where I am, or is it a global overview of how many women are. Say I'm a worldwide traveler. I've just been on a plane. How does it work in terms of proximity? We're going to have an ability to filter a little bit more on the location later. Later on down the line. It's a little bit broad right now, the vicinity, but intentionally so. Yes. So how broad is it? I can't give a total specific broadness, but it's not like another country, of course. No. It's interesting because I. A year ago, two years ago, when I was single, I was obviously using a lot of dating apps. I was newly single after eight years and I started trying out all. All of these things. I remember using one app, but I'd been traveling a lot and so I matched with someone that was on my flight and I was like, how is it picking up this data? And then this guy's now in Switzerland and I'm in London and maybe I've crossed him in the airport. I don't know. Some people prefer this broad global ability and some people want to be able to tailor a little bit. Yes. But Raya, which is another app that is like a bunch of people complain, you know, they're matching with somebody in Germany, but they're in New York. And, you know, that's not always going to be ideal. But there are the people that are constantly traveling for work, who are these, like global citizens. And it's preferable based on their lifestyle choices. So. And it all depends on your outlook then, I guess. So it can be deemed as something really exciting to be, you know, connecting singles at their fingertips who wouldn't normally meet, let's say across continent or border at least. But dating apps in general are, you know, that's the idea, is that you're connecting with people, whether it's directly in your vicinity or in a broader scope, people that you might not have otherwise met. And it's giving all of us a larger platform through which to find a potential love mate. So that's nice. So tell me all about how you came from. Was it fintech? A fintech background? Yeah. The most Recent company. I was about four years in Fintech. So. Okay, what was the transition like? Was it emotional or did it make sense to you or was it financial? Like, what was the pulling power and how was the transition for you? I think I've always been sort of attracted to entrepreneurial endeavors. When I look back on each of the choices that I've made in my career, they were all about like whether starting a department or actually joining a startup. So that goes way back. And I knew I always wanted to do something on my own. That was never a question. And interestingly, I just, my whole life, my friends have always said, you're such a connector, you need to do something like that. Because finance was never exactly what I wanted to do. It was a great opportunity. I was hired at a hedge fund when I was 22 and I spent six years at that fund. I had the best time. I love the people there. I'm still really close with them and, and that sort of spiraled the other choices and Fintech ended up being really interesting as well. But for me it's all about people. So it is very fun to now actually have started an app where it's connecting people for a romantic. A digital matchmaker. Well, I should be asking you matchmaking questions. Oh gosh, we've just been talking about that for an hour. Yeah, you can ask me whatever you like. Well, that's your background. Yeah, it's my background and so I'm always interested in. Well, actually that's a question for you. What was it, was it the background in Fintech that made you want to go online to connect people? And is there a pull to offline ever? For me, no. I think it was just really about seeing something that I felt like was lacking in the dating app world, which was this sense of privacy because there's so many women out there who don't want privacy. Their likeness and their name and all of this personal information to be available to any guy that's on a dating app. So, you know, in my own experience and having delved a little bit further into that, that's where the idea came from. And then having been in the entrepreneurial space, it made it, you know, a little bit more accessible to say, okay, this is what I want to do. And I know some people who can certainly help me bring that to life. Scalable, indeed. Global digital matchmaking. So what are the next steps you've launched in Paris? Yes. New York, London. Where to after? We will be in some German speaking countries in January. That's exciting. I'LL have to learn German and I think Italy as well in January. I'll come over just for a pretzel. Thank you. I could use the company. A pretzel and a party. I'll be there. I like your spirit. Yeah, Positive. I mean, when you're connecting people, whether it's online or offline, one of your values has to be, you know, connection, whether that is for yourself or for the people that you're looking to help. And so I really do believe that in the dating industry, you know, we would thrive greater if we support each other. And I love what I do and I love hearing about what you're doing. And so, like, let's tell our stories, let's share. So I'm Sarah Louise Ryan. I'm here with Tamara Goldstein, founder of Pickleball. And we're here at Women's radio station talking about love. Talking about the lessons of love and the digital footprint. We'll be back. From all the presenters and the team behind Women's radio Station, thank you for listening. You've been the most amazing audience with your sparkling enthusiasm and support. So from our hearts, we would like to wish you a very merry Christmas and a wonderful new year full of joy and surprises. Hi, I'm Lara Haymes, founder and designer of Lara Haims Jewelry. I make luxurious jewelry at affordable prices using silver, semi precious stones and high quality AAA cubic zirconia. It's elegant, stunning, stylish and long lasting. Who needs diamonds? Find us at House of Fraser stores or Ella Boutique, Knightsbridge. 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Visit turntous.org.uk Let me tell you about Jermyn Street Theatre. This is a secret theatre in the heart of the West End. Once found, never forgotten. This is where careers ignite, where playwrights take risks, where great actors perform just feet away from the audience. This is where magic happens. We would love you to join our mailing list or become a sponsor or just buy a ticket to one of our shows. The website is www.germanstreettheatre.co.uk. Women's radio station is a not for profit, community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back to Love Lessons. I'm here at women's radio station with Tamara Goldstein, CEO of Pickleball. Hi Sarah, welcome back. Thanks for being here. My pleasure. So we have just been talking about the app, you know, how you came to realize you wanted to launch it and your background in finance and then moving into connecting people online and building a big digital matchmaking company. I'm going to keep calling it that. I like it. Sounds impressive. It sounds impressive. And so we just talked about how last night we were at the launch party, you launched here in London. Before that you launched in Paris last week and then before that you have been thriving in New York. It sounds. Yeah, I mean we're doing super well, especially on the Columbia and NYU campuses where we are the number one app, which is really exciting. That is really exciting. Yeah. It's super special for me as a native New Yorker to know that it's going well there. So. So yeah, so obviously you founded in New York and that's because you were there are from there and although you live in California now, right? I do, yeah. But I'm back and forth a great deal back and forth. My family's all in New York. Ah, okay, perfect. So when you selected London and Paris and some German speaking countries next year, 2019, why those other cities? I think Europe is a huge market for dating. Certainly that's one of the biggest reasons France, you know, Paris, the city of love, can't really argue with that. I think the young professionals and students in these major cities, especially kind of in the hubs in Europe, are just a really great place to get started. The college campuses and universities, as I mentioned, those are, I think the best approach. You're getting the young people involved, you're getting people who are, they have a long dating life ahead of them and they're the ones who are sort of the mouthpiece of what becomes cool and interesting. But yeah, and Europe, it's always been an important part of the world to me. My parents are Romanian, actually, so I spent a lot of time in Europe growing up. Not in Romania, interestingly, but in France. Do you speak a multitude of languages then, other than German? We've already touched on that. Yeah. I do not speak German. I speak French. My parents speak five languages each. I got one, so I, you know, Woohoo. That's okay. I wish I had been taught Romanian as well. But actually, speaking of which, on the app, is there a language preferences? Like, is there a setting? I mean, how does that work? It's native to where you are. So it's in French. In Paris. Okay, perfect. So your app feels like it's been a long time coming, wouldn't you say? I'd like to think so. If you believe so, that's great too. Well, it's been a huge topic of conversation in recent months, weeks, years in fact, about how women are not at the forefront. Apps aren't done from the female gaze, so to speak. And they're built by men, it feels like, for men. And here we have a female founder sat in front of us at women's radio station talking about how you have built this app to empower and give control to women. Why do you think that something like this hasn't been brought to market before? Yeah, I remain so surprised at the way that the other apps have been devised just based on the fact that social media sites, for example, you can create more privacy for yourself than you can on a dating app. And that just struck me so much in my experience over the last couple of years with apps. So that's where my perspective came from. And then also it's such a big moment in time for women, the MeToo movement. I think everyone is seeing that women are becoming a little bit more comfortable and coming forward and saying, you know what? I'm just not comfortable with that and I'm not comfortable with how they were before. So I wanted to create a totally different platform for all of those women out there who either were completely unwilling or reluctant to download the existing apps and therefore had a full boundary from being able to participate in this numbers game. As we were saying before, there are so many people out there that you wouldn't meet otherwise if you were not on an app. You can't be out every single day of your life combing a bar or going to a party. It's not practical. Life just doesn't work that way. And so you know, it's not 1975. We don't have to go out and we don't have to be fixed up. We can take more control, but we should be able to also have control over who sees all of our personal information. Do you feel, as the creator of this platform, that you have learned from mistakes of any apps? I mean, we don't have to name names, but did you ever see things happening in the market that you just think, okay, I'm not okay with that, and something needs to be done, and this is how this, you know, Pickleball was born. Yeah. I mean, I think Bumble was at the forefront of something which was, oh, let's, you know, change the perspective and do this from a place of, like, how would women feel more comfortable approaching a dating app? But I think myself and I've spoken with other people anecdotally who feel the same way. Just changing who starts the conversation doesn't fully solve the problem. And in fact, most women, myself included, do not want to create the opening line or the pickup line or whatever you want to call it. And ultimately, all the dating apps are the same. You all have a profile. You swipe left and right, and, you know, nothing has fundamentally been changed. And I think Pickleball finally says, okay, this is a totally different format. No more profiles for women. Men get the format that they prefer anyhow, which is to choose from the pool of women who already expressed an interest in them. And so it's a little bit more like behaviorally innately devised, which I think I hope helps everyone. It's really interesting that you've just touched on a point that I have always struggled. Even though I have a voice and have platforms to vocalize myself, my voice on something that I started to acknowledge and vocalize in the past year is that as a matchmaker, I was always in a space of empowering singles to put their best foot forward, particularly women, to feel safe and comfortable. But in the meantime, in the back of my mind, I was always like, you know, this is how you be confident. This is how you change your mindset. But I always still wanted the man to make the first move because I have this tradition instilled in me that that's just my value. I want to. There's some things innate in me that wants a sense of feeling looked after, and I think I want to be hit on. So it's like, I completely agree, and I don't think that you. I don't think it means you're not a feminist. If you'd like to maintain a little bit of that dynamic. And I think there are so many women out there who do feel confident and do feel empowered, but I don't think that that means that they want to be the ones taking charge of all aspects of dating and the relationship. I always felt that as a matchmaker and someone who was kind of an advocate for love and here empowering women, that that was a difficult dynamic to vocalize and to try and even get my head around. And I think that when I tried dating gaps such as ones that you've mentioned, I was like, okay, I kind of feel in control and I kind of feel like the perspective has changed. But actually something in my value system doesn't quite work with this app. And so for women out there like me, and it sounds like you are quite similar in that, in that aspect, this is a great platform for them. Yeah. And when you're connected on pickable, it's already like baked into the code that when you open the chat window it says, hey, what's your name? So it levels that playing field where either person can write in. So if you're one of those women who'd rather just get out there and be like, hi, I'm Sarah, do you want to go out on a date? Like go for it. You can do that, but that's not, it's not mandatory. Something that I'm going to share with you on an entrepreneurial level, putting aside the connectivity of digital matchmaking, is that when I think you might put some cracks in the matchmaking business. And I'll tell you why. For many years. So I was a matchmaker for eight years and one thing that kept the high net worth single professionals offline was not because they felt beyond it and it was beneath them or whatever it was. I was dealing with doctors, lawyers, solicitors, barristers, dentists, people that didn't want to see their clients, they didn't want to see break confidentiality and they didn't want to connect with people that would kind of feel like a juxtaposition of their professionalism versus their personal life. So it was a really tough space for them. And so matchmaking provided a way to connect with other like minded singles. Right, that makes sense. You are putting a spanner in the works because men are not seeing the women. And so inevitably women get the opportunity to vet out people that they do know and not connect with them. That's ideally why, you know, this was something that was important to me to create. I've worked with mostly men my entire career and Then in the last couple of years, I had like 12 guys working for me from age 21 to 30 something. And knowing that they might come across my profile was just such an uncomfortable feeling. I even had to devise sort of like, okay, what does my profile look like? If they were to come across it, is it still appropriate? But is it still sort of, like, attractive to a guy that I want to date? I mean, what a ridiculous juxtaposition in your head that you're trying to figure out. LinkedIn is meant for professional life. Your dating app profile is meant to be a little bit more irreverent. It doesn't have to be like a sexy picture, but you want to feel like you have two separate entities in your life that you can kind of keep to yourself. And not having that solution, I think, was just super frustrating for me. And receiving screenshots of my dating profile from an old boss, an eye opener, I mean, it is really. It's very, very embarrassing. So I think that this app that you have brought not just to the market, but, you know, the global market is exciting. It's gonna put a little bit of a spanner in the matchmaking. Works with the offline dating industry professionals. I love hearing this. Yes, it's true. It's true. And I think it's so exc for the listeners and for myself and the team here at Women's radio station to hear about an app that puts women in the driving seat of finding their person and also sieving out people that they might be connected to professionally to maintain their level of privacy and control over their digital footprint. And I think this is exciting. I can't believe it's not been done before, but you found it. You're doing it. Thank you. If you could, Tamara, give us three quick fire top tips for women back online. Finding love. Oh, my top tips. Don't spend too much time talking. Get out there and meet someone. Chemistry is never defined in a, you know, flat surface. No pseudo relationships. No pseudo relationships. Be open minded again. Chemistry is something that you'll discover. It's often not exactly what you expect. Esther Perel is an amazing TED talk speaker. I recommend watching some of her stuff. Amazing. Was that three? Yeah. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan. I'm here with Tamara Goldstein, founder of Pickleball. This is Love Lessons at Women's radio station. Thank you, Tamara. Thank you. Women's radio station is looking forward to a great 2019 with more shift shows coming your way. All the presenters and the team behind each program would like to say A big thank you for listening. We are the voice of women worldwide and we cannot be without you. The journey has just begun with more exciting programs soon to be revealed. Women's Radio station the voice of women worldwide. I'm Isabelle Manevy, an executive coach. Do you want to change a negative into a positive? We can do this by coaching you to rewire your brain using simple visualization techniques. In 20 years of practice, I've seen this transform lives. For more information, look on Women's Radio website. Call me on 079-844-22171. I'm listening. Mira B Ltd. We are a virtual PA consultancy. We provide remote administrative services. Our offering is diverse. 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This is where magic happens. We would love you to join our mailing list or become a sponsor or just buy a ticket to one of our shows. The website is www.germanstreettheatre.co.uk Women's radio station is a not for profit community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help women towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help.