Radical Well-being – Sisters Lost & Found

Hi, guys. Welcome to the Radical Wellbeing show on Women's radio station. My name is Ingrid Marsh and we are here in our delightful studios in Covent Garden supporting women's wellbeing. On the Radical Wellbeing Show, I bring you ordinary women like me and you, sharing their unique stories. Women who've overcome huge obstacles in their life to be where they are today. Women who refuse to be determined by their pains or by stigma and who are taking back their power. And together, our mission is a simple one. And that is to inspire you to overcome life's challenges so that you too can don your wings and be the person that you were born to be. As always, we're happy for you to connect and engage with us via our email address, which is presentersomensradiostation.com so this week I'm talking about adoption. Adoption for children of mixed heritage in particular, because according to adoption stats, black and mixed race children and other ethnic minority children are historically the hardest to place. But what if you're from a mixed heritage, you were adopted and you are placed in different homes from your siblings? We'll be talking about the challenges and traumas families in that situation may face and asking, is there another way? So my guests today helping me with this topic are the wonderful Letitia Howell and Lauren Pira. Have I pronounced that right? Lauren. I'm sorry, pronouncing surname. They're two sisters of mixed heritage who were given up for adoption at a very young age. They're going to be sharing their story of being separated as children, as babies, being given up for adoption and being reunited via Facebook. So a bit of a story there. So Letitia is the older of the two. She's 23 years old. She's a trained actor and graduated from the Guilford School of acting in 2017 with a degree in acting and after spending two years in paid acting work, decided actually she was going to take some time away from acting to look after a mental health and pursue a poetry. Pursue poetry full time. And I've heard her poetry. She is awesome beyond words. Gonna have to have her back in for that. And I've also got Lauren with me who's 22 years of old. 22 years old. She's a third year student journalist at the London Southback University who will be applying for her masters in investigative. Pronounce that right, journalism. I believe I teach public speaker. Would you? Journalism next year. Ladies, thank you so much for joining us. How are you? Oh, it's my pleasure, Lauren. Oh, wow, some intro situation. Yeah. So I'm gonna kick start with you, if you don't mind. You're the younger of the two. Would you just go back to the beginning, Tell us about the separation as far as you know it, your recollect of it, how old you were and so forth. I think it all begins with our birth mum really, because so there's actually four of us. So there's Leon, Natisha, me, and our younger sister Leah. And our other two siblings are our half siblings. And so our birth mum didn't really have like a fortunate start in life. So can I just stop? Go over the siblings again for me. So It's Leon, he's 24, Leticia, who's 23, I'm 22 and Leah is 21. Right. And then you said, and there's two further siblings, are they. No. So there's four of us. Four, including the two half siblings? Yes. Right, okay. Yeah, yeah. So our birth mom didn't have like, like a good upbringing and so she struggled with having family around her and just she did go into, you know, prostitution when she was younger. But she unfortunately she left us when she was. Was she 22? 22? 20, yeah, 22, 23. And so our older brother Leon lived with her for a few months of like the first few months of his life. So she left home, did she? Yeah, so she left home. Yeah. And so Leon got put into care and then so my adoptive parents couldn't have children, so they adopted Leon first. And then so straight from birth, me and Leon, both me and Nia, were put into foster care from the hospital. So as they were adopting, they found out that he had two half siblings in a different foster home. So they adopted all of us to keep us together. So I didn't know why Letitia was separated from us until I met my birth dad a few years ago who basically explained that like during the time of my birth, him and my birth mom had got into a bit of like an argument. So my, his name was input on my birth certificate and his name was on Leticia's. So that's why, like, from my understanding, that's why Letitia was raised with like my birth dad side of the family. But yeah, so that's pretty much how the separation happened. Right. So. So were you aware of Letitia's existence? Yeah, so I think as soon as my parents realized that we could. Like as soon as I was told I was adopted, I was also. We were also told that we had another half sibling, Letitia, so I always knew about her. So yeah, like throughout the years, I try and find her on Facebook and stuff, but didn't really know how to spell her name and stuff. So that was like, all right, we're going to go on to that as to how you actually found her. So how old were you when you found out that Letitia existed? Oh, to give you an exact age, just roughly, probably like maybe six, five, six. So you were quite young. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And what was your experience of being adopted? Was it a pleasant experience? Was it difficult? Cause you had white parents? Is that right? Yeah. So actually with the whole adoption the courts were giving, because my parents are both white, Caucasian, and our older brother, Leon, Dwight as well. So when they were adopting me and Leah, it was actually pretty hard because the courts were like, oh, you can't adopt two children of mixed race. And their reasoning was just silly things like you won't know how to deal with Afro hair and like, all that kind of stuff. So then my adoptive parents were in court being like, this is ridiculous. It's that they're like the only family they have. So they fought it and then in the end, like, they were able to adopt us. So let me get this right. So it's easy for them to adopt your brother because he was white, but they had a challenge on their hand, adopting his siblings to keep that family together because you have mixed heritage. Yeah. That just sounds crazy. I know to me. Okay, I'm going to come back to you a little bit more, Lauren. I just want to go over to Letitia and Letitia, if you don't mind sharing with me what it was like for you growing up. What's your recollect of the beginning of finding out that you were, you know, you had siblings and what have you can just tell me what your recollection is or what you were told. Okay. So I always knew about them all. There was a period of time where I didn't know they were all together, so I didn't know they had been adopted altogether. So I thought that Lauren. We all begin with Elsa, Lauren and Leah were adopted together, and Leon was somewhere else. That's what I grew up thinking. So all the all. Everything was quite vague. It was difficult because I knew that I had these siblings out there, but not knowing if they're. Well, if they're dead, if they're, you know, safe, if they're happy. So it was more of like an emotional thing for me because I knew I had three other me's, but I just had no leads on getting to them. So I Did you know, go try to go through social services. And it was quite dead leads and stuff. Okay, I'm going to just hold you there because I just want to go back before I get to that stage. I just want to just understand more of the beginning. So when we were younger. Yeah. Would you mind, my darling? So what age were you before you were aware now that they were. So do you remember there being many of you or more than one? No, you don't remember that? Neither of you remember that. So what age were you when you were told actually there were more that you. You have siblings, do you remember roughly? Maybe around the same time as Lauren? So like seven. Seven. And how did you. Do you remember how you felt when you heard that? And I'm going back some years. I think at that age you can't really fathom the gravitas of the whole thing quite. So maybe it was more of an excitement that I had siblings. I think that's maybe what it was. I can't really recollect to accurately, but it maybe would have been why am I not with them or where are they? Right. And why did you feel they were separate? Why did you feel that they were in? Just an assumption. We say these things to our minds. No one was really telling me otherwise. So that's what I just kind of assumed up until the age of 13, though. Okay. And then. Yeah. And what was life like for you growing up and your dad is black? Yeah. Could you just tell me what life was like for you growing up? Yeah. So it wasn't very easy because I had to move around a lot, so. Move around where? So like all in, like in the uk. So I was born in London, moved from London when I was 10. Then actually before, during the time of living in London, we had temporarily moved to Blackpool and Scarborough and then came back and then I moved to Cardiff. That wasn't with my dad. I went to live with an uncle in Cardiff. Gosh, there's so many places. I'm getting it all jumbled up in terms of timeline. That's all right. In the time of living in London, I lived with one of my aunties and I was with her from like the age of 4 till about 10, 3, 4 to 10. And then I spent some time living with our dad for about a year and then I had to move a couple of times. Okay. So, yeah. Okay. So listen to Ingrid Marsh on Women's radio station from our studio at Covent Garden supporting women's wellbeing this week. I'm talking about adoption Adoption for children of mixed race, children particularly, and children who are black or from other ethnic minority groups who are historically very hard to place. My guest today, as I showed you, is Letitia Howard and Lauren Pirro. And they were not only from mixed heritage, they were adopted, but also grew up in separate homes. And I want to know, is there a better way, you know, is there a better way for us to be dealing with this? So I'd love you to engage with us on the show. It's presenters@womensradiostation.com do email us in. Have you been through this? What are your views? There are so many rules and I know the laws have changed quite a bit with regards to adopting mixed race children. But going to be speaking to Lauren and Leticia some more. The L's are getting stuck in my mouth. Lauren and Letitia some more off the break. So do stick with us. We're going to be finding out more about their experiences and eventually how they found each other. They found each other via Facebook and I must say, when I first met these two, it was just extraordinary watching this synergy between them. But we know life is not a fairy tale and it hasn't all been easy. But do make sure you stick with us. Ingrid Marsh and this is the Radical Wellbeing Show. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything, fertility, pregnancy, birth and baby related right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. Hello, my name is Ingrid Marsh on Women's Radio Station and coming soon is the Radical Wellbeing show to help support women's wellbeing. Each show I share the airwaves with ordinary women like me and you doing extraordinary things. 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We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls and excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@media mattersforwomen.org you're listening to Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadio station. That's Women's Radio Stn or Facebook. Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Welcome back and listening to Ingrid Marsh on Women's Radio Station at our lovely studios here at Covent Garden. Supporting women's wellbeing. This week we're talking about adoption. Adoption in particular, people from mixed race, from mixed heritage and black children, mixed heritage, who are historically more difficult to place. They're harder to place. But this story is a little bit more intriguing. What? Not only were my guests adopted, Letitia Howell and Lauren Pirro were adopted, but they were also placed in different homes, grew up without each other, but then found them, found each other on Facebook. And I'm asking today, is there a better way? Is there a better way that we should be dealing with this and looking at this? So, guys, thank you so much. Before the break, we were talking about their beginning, how they found out, how the adoption happened, what was the source of that and what life was like is what I'd like to know now what life was like in their respective homes before we eventually find out how they did, in fact, find each other. Sloane? Yeah. What was life like with your family? I mean, I always. I was given everything, and more so knowing that what life could have been, I've grown up feeling very, very grateful and also just grateful for being adopted as well, because there are lots of people who don't get that opportunity and, you know, live in foster care until they're 18. And so I grew up having that sense of family and having everything I needed and, like, having all the opportunities to, you know, do things. But I did always kind of feel like I was missing something. And I think, like, what I'm talking about specifically is I wasn't very in tune with my culture, like, my Jamaican side. And that is something that my adoptive parents obviously just couldn't give me. So, yeah, I think overall, it was. It was a really good experience, and I'm happy that I did get to grow up with Leon and Lia and. Yeah, and for yourself, Leticia. So you had the. You were in touch with the Jamaican side. Was there also ways that you could connect with the Caucasian side, the white Caucasian side, or was that side cut off from you? It wasn't cut off from me, no, because I grew up with a lot of different family. So even though all the family that I did live with were all mixed race or black, you know, I suppose, like, in the. In the areas that I lived sometimes were predominantly Caucasian, so it wasn't. I lacked diversity. It was just in areas where black people just don't really live. So growing up with black family, I still had the Caucasian influence because of where I was living in different parts, if that makes sense. Yes, it does. Indeed. Yes. Leticia, did you feel at any point when you did discover, and we'll find out how you did find her eventually, did you feel upset at all or resentful that you didn't go out with your birth dad, or were you okay with that? No, not resentful. I think it's just one of those. So when I was told that I was adopted and all that, I did become very emotional, but I didn't really ask any questions. I kind of just accepted that's the way it was. And, like, I didn't. I started asking questions when. I think it was when I moved to Canada, and I just felt like I felt more out of place than ever because I wasn't in my hometown. And then that's when I actually started. Were you before Canada, so in London? Yeah, I was born and raised in London. Then when I was 16, I moved to Canada. Right, with your family? Yeah, with my family. And then. So when that happened, I just felt more out of place, and I just wanted to maybe be reconnected with that part that I felt like I was missing my whole life. And then Leticia came up and. Yeah. Do you feel that now that you've met Latisha and I'm still holding you back from telling me how you done that, does that part feel complete, or does it. Is it something that you imagined would feel a certain way? And it didn't quite meet that. So this meeting was something that I never thought would happen. And nothing could prepare you for, like, the, like, emotional roller coaster that you go on going through that experience. But I now feel complete, and I feel like I don't have those questions of what if? And I was also able to meet my birth dad and have, like, a lot of these answers, like, yeah, a lot of these questions answered. And I feel more at peace with myself, and I've been able to just, like, accept how I'm feeling about the whole thing. Yeah. And that's obviously the positive side. You said that there were some difficult times, but you did feel incomplete. Can you share that with me when you say yes? I don't make assumptions as to what you mean by that. So it was just when I was going to school, and, like, I'd have, like, a black friend, and then when, like, our parents would come and pick us up, like, I didn't understand why my parents were both white, and then their parents were both black, and I just didn't understand, like, how I came to be in this family. So it was just. It was very confusing. And, like, parents can only explain it to you so much, and you just have to kind of, like, find out for yourself. And, like, it was hard, especially because, like, kids can be ruthless. Like, I used to get called, like, an adopted idiot, and I didn't understand. Like, I get. Kids just don't get what they're, like, how mean their words can be. But I just felt like, why is me being adopted a bad thing? Like, I never saw it as a bad thing. I saw it as, like, a blessing almost, because I feel like, although Letitia did grow up with, like, our birth side of the family, she went through a lot more trauma than I have because I was in a stable home, and she had to, like, move from Place to place. So, yeah, yeah, don't share that. Tell us about that, Letitia, because that would be the bias for us to believe that. Oh, she had. She was with her dad. This is where our bias will take us. Our quick thinking. She was with her dad. So she was all right. Yeah. You got with your Lauren. Sorry, I should say got your doctor parents or. You must have had a terrible time, but actually worked out. Reverse. The reverse. Yeah. Tell us about that. So I wasn't put in a. In a. I think I was briefly, very briefly put in a home, but I didn't stay there. So I was never adopted. It was just Lauren Lear and Leon who were adopted. So I stayed with mine and Lauren's dad, but I wasn't with him the whole time. I was actually with him the least. He had his own issues going on and I don't want to bait out his stuff, but he was going through a lot. You know, our mum passing. I don't think he has ever recovered from. From that. So we haven't talked about that. Your mum pass and when did she pass? So did you have any connection with your mum at all? What do you mean? So. So your mum had. Just clarify this, because we've only just touched on the fact that she'd passed. The last time you mentioned her was that she'd put you up because you couldn't cope. Yeah. What age was he when she passed? Let me just. So I think I was thinking three. Okay. He was quite young when she passed. Okay. So you feel that your dad was traumatized? Well, completely, yeah. From that. Absolutely. Right, Absolutely. Because they loved each other and she was young. I think she passed away at the age I am now, so 23. Oh, crikey. So she'd had four kids by the time she was 23 and passed away. And one thing. And I think the one thing, you know, we all make mistakes and we all don't make the right choices, but I think it wasn't easy for my dad knowing that he has to try and look after one daughter and there's potentially another daughter that he doesn't know is his. Because like Lauren said earlier, our dad's surname wasn't put on Lauren's birth certificate quite so there are questions of, like, why didn't you do a DNA test? I don't know back then, if you would have had to have paid or he didn't want to. He didn't believe it. There was just so much going on that he did. Like, there's. There's discussions that are yet to be had. As to why it wasn't like Lauren. His name being on Lauren's birth certificate wasn't fought for. Right. You see, and the thing is, though, because I have. The only picture I have with mum and dad together is with me as a baby. So I, like, I do think he knew it was mine. Like, I'm sorry, I do think he knew that I was his kid. But I just think, like, this is just my opinion, but, like, just in terms of everything that happened, there was no way of proving that because his name wasn't on my. On my certificate. So, like, me growing up, I had a lot of anger towards him because it was like, why didn't you try harder? Why, like, if you did have to pay, like, why didn't you, like, find money to be able to pay for? Do you see what I'm saying? So, like, I always grew up very angry at him and not understanding why. Do you see what I'm saying? Have you found peace with that yet? So I have met him. I think it's like two or three times. And like, in this point, in this, in this point, I just think I'm not ready to, like, pursue a relationship with him. Okay. And I have, like, met him and, like, put a face to a name, and there's just a lot of anger still there, and I'm just not ready to tap into that at the moment in this stage of my life. Yeah, I hear you. The time is just flying by and almost done this over two hours, to be honest. I just want to speak to you a little bit more as well, Leticia, about your dad and your upbringing and what was happening around that time. And thank you for being honest there. And I've gone through similar situations of dad scenarios, took 40 years off my back. So I get where you are. And we're all on our own journey. Listen to Ingrid Marsh. We're at women's radio station. This is the radical wellbeing show. And this week we're talking about adoption. My guests, who are so courageous and so wonderful, and I must tell you this, guys, you must, must, must, must, must look on the website and look at their two pictures. It is spooky. Letitia sent me her picture first, and Letitia's who I knew first, and then Lauren sent me her picture. I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. It's just like two people who look exactly the same. And once again, if you. If you're in this situation, if you were adopted, were given up for ad parent, you're a parent who's taken up adoption, you've adopted children as well, of mixed heritage. I'm sure there's challenges that you're facing that and there's so much help out there which we're going to be touching on as well. But do stay listening. We're going to be sharing more of this stuff. We're going to find out a bit more about the teachers that are bringing and how they found each other on Facebook. This is so nuts. But yeah, they're just an awesome but you should feel the air in this room. It's awesome. Stay with us. Welcome to the Women's Radio station Supporting women's well being. Women's Radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. 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With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's well being. Hi, guys. Welcome back. You're listening to Ingrid Marsh on women's radio station for Marsh Studio in Covent Garden. Supporting women's wellbeing. We're talking about adoption. We're talking about adoption of black children, of children from mixed heritage who are the hardest to place. And here we have a situation where we have two wonderful women, very courageous women, sharing their stories who were separated, separated at birth in two separate homes. So that, you know, there's a number of challenges there and you can just hear how honest they are, how awesome they are. But I really want to kind of just rush through what I'm saying here because I want to get more of this story out. Leticia, before the break, we were speaking about so long while they were talking about where you're at with your dad and you're still angry. Thank you very much for that and I resonate with that deeply. Letitia, would you mind just carrying on as to a bit more about your childhood and your dad and how things were? Yep. So like I said, my dad had a lot to deal with. So like I said, I spent the least amount of time living with him. I lived with two aunties roughly for the same amount of time. So six, seven years. Oh, wow. One was in London and another was in Peterborough, which is like Midlands. And then I stayed with an uncle for just under a year. But between that, there was other people looking like when I was living in London, there was. And when I was living in London but not living with my auntie, I was still like being looked after by other people. So I've been raised by a lot of great minds. So. But in terms of, like my dad, some people might ask why I didn't spend a lot of time living with him. And I think it shows in the, in the length of time I was living with my aunties because I spent like six or seven years with each of them and I think that was. That was because my dad just didn't know how to look after me. Not that he didn't know how to be a dad. And it doesn't mean he didn't love me. It was just that he was going through things that he didn't know how to deal with. And what's your relationship like with your dad at the moment? Generally. Generally has been good. Yeah. We've had our, you know, arguments, which has meant I've not spoken to him for a little while now. But I. I do aim to rekindle things. The difference of me and Lauren is that Lauren had two parents, whereas I had just my dad and then aunties and stuff. But Lauren was fortunate enough to have two stable parents, whereas I, even though we have the same mum and dad, I just had one dad and he wasn't very stable. So I grew up never mad at him. It was like I. I forgave him before understanding. So I've now, as I've gotten older and realized that I have severe ptsd, like depression and anxiety from my childhood, from the lack of stability, from the lack of finances. I have. I realized with Lauren, and Lauren helped me realize that I have forgiven him too much and that sometimes you don't have to punish people, but you have to let them see that their choices has affected you long term. With this ptsd, it feels so, because just let everyone know what PTSD is. So it's post Traumatic stress disorder. So when one has experienced like a traumatic experience, has experienced something traumatic, and, you know, it's the feelings that you get after that. So flashbacks, nightmares, I mean, these are just very simple examples of what this disorder can do. And is it related to your childhood? Yeah, absolutely. That's the reason why I have it. Lauren, does that make you feel. Yes or no? You don't have to be. You don't have to say yes. Does it make you feel any better to know that Leticia went this, or do you feel bad that? No, it makes me feel like, terribly sad and like the anger that I did feel towards my birth dad growing up just amplified a lot because just some of, you know, it's just. It just angers me that he couldn't be a little bit better for her. And it just makes me sad that she went through everything that she went through. And it makes me feel almost a bit guilty because it also, like, sometimes I think had I not been adopted and had all that stuff between our birth parents not happened, that would have been me with her. But then I feel like if. If she had me, it maybe wouldn't have been so bad because she wouldn't have been alone, you know? I hear you. Okay, we're gonna move forward a bit because this could easily been a two hour show, because I want to. There were so more questions to ask and I'm not going to get through them in time. So, Leticia, you decided that you were going to find your sisters and your sister and your family. Tell us about that and how you went about it. I had just gotten so fed up of not knowing where they were, and I was so fed up with people not helping me and also not. Not to badly say anything about my family, but no one was proactive in doing it. No one. And that's not a bad thing on them. It was just. It wasn't anyone's priority, but it. It was mine. It was like my quest. So every couple of years I would try and find them on Facebook. But remember, I didn't know who they were adopted by, so I couldn't. I didn't know their surnames because obviously I knew they would have had new surnames. So did you, before you went the Facebook route, did you go down any official paths, like contacting an agency or anything like that? You just went straight to Facebook social services, basically. Our mum's sister found me on Facebook at 13. Right. For my 14th birthday. She sent me loads of photos and, like, it was the first time where I'd felt a slight sense of identity. So then that's when she told me that they were all adopted together. And so I. She was helping me a little bit. But it also wasn't persistent, like, consistent help. So it was quite airy. Fairy, kind of. No one was just like, okay, Tish wants to find the siblings. How do we do this? No one was doing that for me. So I was like, I'm just gonna have to do it myself. And I wasn't bitter about it because I. I don't know, I just knew that it was something that I wanted to do. So this was the point. You now realize that they were all together? Yeah, through this. So, like 13, 14. Yeah. Great stuff. Yeah. So then you done a Facebook search, is that right? Yeah. So but that wasn't until I was at drama school. And how old were you then? When I found them? 20. 20. Okay. Yeah. So you've gone to Facebook. But the problems we were facing before then was the surname issue. Yep. Right. And then what happened? The only thing I could Go by is Lauren's name because you can imagine there's going to be so many Lias and Leons. But Lauren's name isn't spelled like L A, U, R, E, N. It's L A, U, R, Y. Wait, hold on. L, Y, N. Just to confirm. L A, U, R, Y, N. Thank you. Yes. So like Lauryn Hill, basically. So that's literally I could just go by that it being spelled slightly different. So after about three hours of searching, looking at a lot of mixed race girls, like, does she look like me? No. It got to about 5 in the morning and I had, I did and have like still suffer with like bad insomnia. So I don't sleep. So it got to about five and then I stumbled across Lauren Piero and I was like, okay. And then I. So she would have been a year younger. So she was probably about 19 at this point. Yeah. And I looked on her like main profile picture and I was like, oh, okay. But I kind of froze. And then I carried on like clicking and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This just looks like me with straight hair. What is, what is this? And then I actually had to ring a friend at five in the morning and be like, I'm really sorry to bother you, but does this girl look like me? And he was like, you found her. And then. Spooky, honestly. And it wasn't, you know, like in my head finding them. The moment was so. I had glorified it in my head so much I thought it was gonna be flowers and unicorns and you know, like the end of the Color Purple where Celie's reunited with her sister. I really thought we're gonna be galloping through the fields, but actually it was just I couldn't breathe. So tell me then, what did you then do? What did you send her message saying? So I sent Lauren a message. No, no. Who did I send the message? Leon. Leon? Was it Leon I sent the message to first? Yeah, yeah, go on. Yeah. So I think it was Leon first. This is how jumbled it is in my mind. I can't remember who I sent first, but it was Leon. And I was like, hey, I think you're my brother. And then I think Leon then told Leah and you. Well, no, because I actually know. I, I think we're getting jumbled up. So the way it went for me, I was at the beach because it was in July of 2016 or whatever and I got a message from you. Oh. So I did. Hi, I think I'm your sister. Oh, you sent the message. I think I can see them both here. So Leticia sends a message. Letitia's the older one, saying, I think I'm your sister. Yeah. And I just. You're at the beach. Yeah, I'm at the beach. And I just remember looking at my phone and I just fell to the ground. And I was like, oh, my God. And my friends were like, did you get stung by a bee or something? I was like, no. Like this? Yeah. My sister's family. Like, I just. Just. What went through my head was just. I was just shaking. It was like excitement and like happiness and like. Yeah. All the roller coaster of emotions. And how long did you take? Enough to answer this one quite quick. How long did you take before you replied? And what did you reply? Oh, I replied straight away. I think. I can't remember exactly what I said. I scroll and look, I don't know. But we met for the first time in Brighton, I think a few years after that. And it just felt right. Yeah. And, you know, guys, I must share with you. I was at a poetry event where Letitia was doing a poetry. And Lauren was there. And I heard them say very briefly, oh, this is my sister. I met her on Facebook. There was these two girls, like, jumping around in unison work. Oh, my God. Jack in the boxes, who looked exactly the same. And I just thought. I was sitting there thinking, I don't want to hear no more poetry. I don't want to hear, like, nothing. I want to know about this. Because it was just mental. The emotion that was going through my mind. I was thinking, can they see what I'm seeing? Like, look at the two of them. It's like in unison. It was. It was just the most mind blowing thing I'd ever seen. And so it's just crazy because they looked and think is they. They could have been Sisyphus, not look alike, you know, it could have been that which would have made this, you know, even more challenging. But they looked exactly the same. My mind was blown, and I don't think I listened to any poetry that night. And then I eventually approached Leticia. I said, would you mind sharing your story with us? And she kindly agreed. And Lauren kind of agreed and have come a long way. So I'm touched and beyond words. We're going to get to the final quarter of their story after break, so make sure you stay with us. And what's going to ask, is there another way? This is Ingrid Marsh. This is the Radical Wellbeing show. And we're talking about being reunited. 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Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Welcome back. My name is Ingrid Marshall. This is the radical wellbeing show on Women's Radio Station. Don't forget we'd like to engage with us presenters@womensradiostation.com we're speaking about adoption. Adoption, particularly for children of mixed heritage and who are black, who are much more difficult to place. But we've had a one listen to a wonderful story here of two really truly awesome women who are from mix, have mixed heritage and were given up for adoption by birth or separated at birth. One with the natural, stayed with the natural dad. The other had a really positive experience with her white Caucasian parents and they reunited on Facebook, which we've just heard the story. So, guys, I just want to talk about your relationship now. Of course, we'd love to. The fairy tale will tell us that we met and we all live happily ever after. But what is the reality of the situation? Is it happily ever after or are there still chances just to face Leticia? I think they're still not. Not challenges. Hurdles, hurdles, hurdles. Yeah. Just because when I found them, they were all living in Canada. Right. And so that the distance made it almost impossible to create, to build a relationship with them. Right. I'm quite keen to know your relationship with each other now because I, for time, I just wanted to get to the main gist of it. So there was problems building a relationship. But I know you have a relationship now. Just tell me about that relationship. I think it's. It's really interesting. Like, there's nothing bad, there's just we're learning so much about each other, like how each other reacts to certain things and how one would go about things. And it's just about learning about each other. Like when you go on a date, but a date with my sisters and brother, but with Lauren, like, it's. Now that she's in London, even though we probably don't see each other as much as we should, we're still building. So sometimes things can be miscommunicated, but it's because we don't understand each other's language yet. Like Lauren might not know that I might act this certain, this way in a situation, whereas she might act that way. So it's learning our differences and appreciating our differences and also discovering our similarities as well. Because you've never believed you two are 22 and 23. You're like. You're so mature. People don't realize that when they're much older that it's about learning each other's differences. Was that challenging nonetheless, though, and bearing in mind that you could have assumed, and don't let me put words into your mouth naturally, you could have assumed that we're sisters, we're going to be exactly the same. Did that ever come to mind? I think when we first met, I was immature to the fact that Leticia couldn't, like, read my mind. I always thought that I didn't understand why she didn't understand. Could you give me an example? Just, like, if I don't understand something, I get very frustrated and I. Very impulsive. Whereas the teacher's a bit more, like, calm and collected. And then I kind of like. I'm like, why? And then I'll, like, sit down and just actually, like, listen to her words. And then she is usually always right. No, it's not me being right. No, no. But I mean, her way of dealing with things is just more like, Zen and more like, like, calm. So I think for me, like, coming to terms with, like, or just like, grasping the fact that I need to be more vocal and communicate better how I'm feeling with situations. It's something I'm still working on, but I think that was, like, the biggest hurdle for me. But, yeah, I think everything takes time and. Yeah. Do you feel like sisters? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You feel that when we're walking down the street, everyone's like, are you twin? Yeah, yeah, I do. I feel. I feel like I. It's so. It's honestly just so difficult to even try and express it into words, but I. Do you remember that I've lived alone all my life, so what does that feel like? To now have it because my son's no child and absolutely hates it, to just suddenly have a sim. That must be. How did that feel? You've always had siblings? Yeah, naturally. Haven't you long? But, yeah. Now you have a sister. Yeah. It really shows in how I deal with things. So I'm so used to kind of overcoming adversity on my own and overcoming hurdles on my own. Whereas now I. I always forget that I've got other shoulders to lean on. I've got other. I've got other me's that want to help me, whereas I'm just so independent and so hustling on my own that I forget I've got sisters and a brother who. Who. Who want to talk. So it. I feel the reason why we aren't as. Not. Not about close, it's not about proximity, but we clash. And I think that's also down to me being like, I know how to deal with it. I know how this should pan out. Whereas when you've got other minds trying to, like, in the mix, it can. It does clash. But it's nice. It's more than nice is a really stupid word to use. It's. It's confirming that I'm not on my own and that I have a family. Yeah. Does that feel lovely? That feels great. Even saying I have a family feels amazing. And do you always remember that, oh, crikey, I've got another sister or. I mean, I've always grown up with siblings, so I think have. I think having a sister that looks identical to me is also, like, really fun because it's just like, whoa. And it's also like, because we both have, like, the same birth parents, like Mum and Dad, I think we also have, like, a different connection to what I have. Like, I. I'm very close with my other siblings, but I think the connection that me and Leticia have is slightly different just because of that as well. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. So very, very quickly, because I want to get as much in the last few minutes. How does your brother feel about all of this? I said quick. Yeah. I think with Leon, he's got his own thing going on. Yeah. So I don't have to be diplomatic. No, no, he's just. He's just different. He's just different from us. And that's not because he's white or anything like that. He's just got a different mind. So I don't know if he's as emotionally invested in. In this at the moment, but that's not to say that he won't be in the future. It could be going through his own stuff as well. Would you agree with that? Was anything you'd want to add to that? Because you grew up with him, didn't you? You. So, yeah, I mean, like, we've. Me and Leon, we've always had, like, issues. We're not really on speaking terms at the moment, so. Yeah. Okay, cool. All right, so, guys, we'd have to ask you very, very quickly to Give me three radical well being tips as to anyone who's going through this situation. You know, people have just met their doctor. You come from any regard people who have been adopted who are going through adoption, who have lost their siblings. You can come from any angle you like, just some well being to it. I think for me the main one is patience is key and to also understand that the other person may not react the same as you to this, like to the same situation and to accept the other person's feelings and yeah. Would you want to add anything to that? I would say a big one for me is time heals. I think I'm actually just going to run with that one and expand on it quickly. Is just that despite what you're going through, how the situation lived out, that time heals and actually forgiveness. We can go on about how dad could have fought harder and. But he was also going for his own things. And things are never as black and white. Things are never black and white. Things are always multi layered. And forgiveness, forgiveness is key. Time heals and forgiveness is key. Yeah. I also just want to add that like, like our story began like very like very tragically and then we were all separated. But I think in the end it's like, it's like a blessing in disguise and it is a happy ending to our story. And I know that our birth mom would be very, very happy, you know that we found each other and that. That gives me a lot of peace. Yeah, I think she'd be, I mean I could just cry. I think she'd be so proud of you both, honestly. She'd be really proud of you guys. I want to thank you so much for joining me on my show. Just to wrap up, of course I always end up with what Ingrid says. I left myself a very short time because I wanted to these guys stories in. But I want to just talk about a particular quote that has come to mind as the ladies were talking by Mark Marcus Aurelius. And he says that if you're distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your estimate of it and you have the power to revoke it at any time. And the reason I felt that was relevant to this situation because I'm listening to very young women who could have taken a situation and just been angry. Do you know what I mean? Just been. And there is anger, of course, there's anger, there's pains to get over. But as they, you know, kindly wrapped up at the end to say that a beautiful story has come from this. Now we all have situations. Do you want me, I had a situation recently. We all have very difficult situations and there's our reaction to it, but in between those two areas, our emotions, our reaction and the event is a filter. And it's the filter that's the important part because the filter will determine how you're going to deal with it. Now, we listened to Lauren and she could have been very bitter and it could have been very a bitter situation, but with her adoptive parents. And she said, well, actually it was actually a really beautiful experience. Even though she was getting teased and was being really felt in pain, but still has taken from that a positive situation in that I had a great upbringing. You know, this is the filter she's put in there and will enable her to have a great life. Once again, we listen to Leticia, listen to. Of her filters. There was areas where she was talking about, I thought this could have made you so angry with dad and all the rest of it. But she's put a filter there to say, well, actually this is my interpretation of it. And as a result she can be well and develop a really great relationship with her sister. So I say all that to say we have to check our filters. There were people that would always think as well that because you're from mixed heritage background, this is. I mean, I've always felt that it's a beautiful world because, hey, you know, I almost think that should have been me because then I've got the two worlds. I always just feel conflicted between these two worlds of what people say is black or white. I just think this is a social construct and they're just labels that people keep putting on everybody's head and these rules that we're supposed to live between. So I think in my soul, I always feel that I'm from a mixed race culture because I just take it all in and have a really wonderful life. My darlings, my name is Ingda Marsh. Like I said, this is the Radical Wellbeing Show. Big thanks again to my wonderful guests. I just think they are so inspiring. We are learning every day and we can learn from anyone. They've done a great job in teaching us today about love. So yeah, look forward to seeing you guys next week again at 4 o'. Clock. My name is Ingrid Marshall. I speak to you then. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. 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