The Menopause Show With Sue Moxley – Paris, Jodie Welton, The Health Benefits Of Adaptogens

Hi, this is Sue Moxley. This is Women's Radio Station. This is my show, The Menopause Show, and today I have two sisters, Jodie and Paris Welton, um, that are almost on my show today. And hi girls, are you there? Hello Sue, we're here. Thank you for having us. Hello. Okay, thank you for coming on. Um, tell us about your company. And how it happened and all of the things and why you've got it and what, especially what it's called, because I can't pronounce it. Yes, so our company is called the Adaptogenic Apothecary, and we work with adaptogenic herbs and medicinal mushrooms. So, ah, yeah, so a few years back when I was in— sorry, I went like that. I've just heard about the mushrooms lately. Ah, yes, little tiny portions of mushrooms. Yes, and medicinal mushrooms are getting more well known. Yeah, they can do amazing things to help optimize your well-being and your health. So all of our blends that we create, actually, we're using medicinal mushrooms and adaptogenic herbs. So should I start by giving you a bit of a background on how we got started? Yes, please. Yes. Yeah, so a few years back when I was in my early 40s, I found myself suffering with what I thought was PMT, which was a bit of a surprise to me because I very luckily not had any sort of hormonal issues or PMT before. And I had tried lots of natural supplements and nothing really was working for me until I came across an adaptogen called ashwagandha, which is an adaptogenic herb. I started taking it on day 15 of my cycle every month because that's when I started to feel a bit like my PMT was coming. It was very cyclic with me. And at the same time, my sister Paris, who is a little bit older than me, was struggling a little bit with perimenopause symptoms. So in conversation, I just mentioned that perhaps she'd like to try ashwagandha. And I think you found that really useful, didn't you? Yeah. So I started having like peri-symptoms sort of mid-40s, um, and they were quite significant symptoms, but they would also be quite fleeting. So one symptom I had that was particularly strange was burning tongue, which lasted for about 3 months. Wow. Yeah, and that's really uncomfortable, and it's something I think not many people talk about, but if you do have a look on the internet, quite a lot of people on the internet have spoken about having burning tongue and what they did to relieve it. I also suffered from insomnia quite badly, so I would wake up at like 2:00 every morning. I'd be very wide awake and then I'd fall back asleep about 6:00, and then my alarm clock would wake me up at 6:45. So I'd end up feeling absolutely wiped out for the day. Yeah, of course that brings challenges in itself because, you know, you're tempted then by sugary foods because you're So shattered. And then, you know, you have a sugar high and a low and, you know, just not feeling at all balanced. I started to feel sort of a low-level anxiety, which I'd never really experienced in my life. I absolutely love driving and road trips. Like, I've driven across America, I've driven to Morocco. I drive anywhere. I love it. And then I started feeling like when I was going on drives, just a bit anxious before I set off. When I was on the motorway, I started to feel like everyone's driving really fast. Never had that feeling in my life. I love driving fast. I just started to feel out of sorts, weird, and not like myself. You know, I started to have aches in my body that I'd never experienced before. And of course you think, well, is this just getting old? But, you know, 45 isn't old, you know. Things started feeling off. Jodie suggested that I take ashwagandha. I took it, I slept through the night, was like, what is this miracle herb that no one's ever told me about? Why don't people know about it? Can you put it in the post now for me? Yeah, I know everyone needs a bit of ashwagandha in their life. Can I ask though, um, I don't mean to interrupt, but how did you— why did you try ashwagandha? Did you just say that you read about it on the internet? No, I had, I was gradually working my way through the health food shop, I think, trying literally everything. And my particular symptoms were, I was just feeling very moody and very like dark cloud hanging over my head and quite angry at life for no real reason every month. And actually it was the lady in the health shop said, have you tried ashwagandha? And I was like, 'Never even heard of it. What is it?' And so I did some research around ashwagandha, and it's actually, um, a root herb, and you buy it in a powdered form, so you can just pop it in your cup of coffee or in a smoothie. Um, and yeah, it was almost instant. The day I took that ashwagandha, half an hour later, I just felt like a big sigh of relief, like, 'Oh, I just don't feel like tight in my chest anymore.' Really? Yeah, just more relaxed. And it— and there's good reason for it because the adaptogenic herbs like ashwagandha that we work with are, you know, there's a lot of scientific backing that show them to work at a cellular level. So they work at the hypothalamic, adrenal, and pituitary glands and work in your cells to really calm things down in the case of ashwagandha. So that was our start point. So we were both quite happily taking ashwagandha, but then I was thinking, You know, it makes sense that I'm taking this at the tail end of my cycle, but there's probably other supplements I should be taking during the other phases of my cycle. So as you probably will know, women, we have 4 phases to our menstrual cycle. So you have your menstruation when you're bleeding, your follicular phase, ovulation phase, and then luteal phase, which is— yes. Problematic time. So to me, it didn't really make sense that you would take the same supplement every day. Yeah, you know, we're changing 4 times a month, so it would make more sense to take a different supplement depending on which phase you're in. Okay, so Paris and I took this idea to Sarah Rooney, who is one of the UK's leading medical herbalists, and she specializes in female hormone health. Conversation with her and said to her, you know, what do you think about this theory we've come up with? And she said, yeah, absolutely, it would make sense to support your body in different ways depending on which, which phase you're in, in your cycle. And so we worked with her for a couple of years and created Harmony, which was the first of our products, which comes in a really beautiful box. And there's 4 different adaptogenic supplements in the box, one for each of the phases. So you take one while you're bleeding and then you change and take the next one in follicular, change again and take the next one in ovulation, and then change again for luteal. And what that does, it works in a really holistic way to optimize your— well, balance your hormones and optimize your well-being. So for me, that meant it got rid of all my PMT, angry, dark mood type feelings I was experiencing in luteal. And it's just made my menstrual cycles a lot easier. I'm now So this was a couple of years ago, so I'm a bit, a little bit older now, and I'm in perimenopause. Um, but I'm happy to say I'm having very minimal symptoms, if any, really, because I've been taking the adaptogens for, well, a good 2 years now. Um, and it's just keeping everything as it should. Do you think you're the first people to kind of stumble on that and bring out, um, you know, a solution where you do take different things throughout the month? Or— because this sounds really new to me. Yeah, it is. You know, like, you have to remember that most kind of supplements, and actually society in general, has been built around a male cycle which is driven by the sun and doesn't fluctuate. Everything's driven by the male cycle. Yeah, well, their cycle is not a 28-day lunar-driven cycle that fluctuates massively throughout the month. So if you're taking a supplement every single day for your cycle, you don't need that for 3 phases of your cycle. It's probably only doing a job for you for one phase of your cycle. So when you start to really live in a cyclic way— and we really do, obviously, we track our cycle, we supplement with adaptogens that are very targeted to support the phase of the cycle that we're in, we exercise based on the cycle that we're in, we even plan holidays around. Do you really? Yeah, we do, of the cycle, you know, where we are. Because I know when I'm in my follicular phase, this is a great time for me to have lots of energy, be super creative, make lots of plans, you know. But when I'm tailing towards the end of my luteal phase, you know, not so sociable, don't really be going out and, you know, having the holiday of a lifetime then. So we really do— is that the avoid the end of the luteal. It is, and honestly, that was one of the driving factors for us. The husband? I was having problems with my husband during that luteal phase where everything about him I just found really difficult. Um, but now thankfully I'm on Harmony, that's calmed right down. But we, we joke about it a lot, but in all seriousness, we You know, it feels like quite a rebellious thing to say, actually, I'm not living by the 24-hour robotic way that men live by. That doesn't work for me as a woman. What does work is when I've got energy, I'll do things. When I need rest, I'll rest. Yeah. And taking a supplement that really is in tune with your natural cycles, it feels like such an intuitive, lovely thing to do. It's very hard to verbalize, but you feel It, it makes you feel very grounded and very connected to, to nature because it's all natural, everything that's in there. There's, there's 22 ingredients in Harmony, um, and they're all adaptogenic herbs, medicinal mushrooms, and afron, which is the extract of saffron. Okay. Um, and now afron is a really exciting ingredient. Yeah. Do you want to say about this? Yeah, so afron has got clinical data behind it showing that it actually improves perimenopause and menopause symptoms. So it improves sleep quality and length of sleep. It reduces aches and pains in the body. It improves mood as much as Prozac does. Oh, OK. It reduces anxiety. So anyone who is on, you know, pharmaceuticals for those types of issues, there is a natural solution out there. Now I was really driven, and Jodie is as well, to not go down the pharmaceutical route for our menopause years because in our family history our mum had a hormonal breast cancer, right? So we've been advised that anyway, HRT isn't really appropriate for us. And for many women as well, HRT isn't appropriate for them. They may just not want to take it. We find that some women take HRT and they've kind of been promised the earth with it, and then they have issues and they want to come off of HRT and are looking for a natural solution as well. So to be able to put something out there in the marketplace and an offering for other women that there is a natural solution that really works, because, you know, let's face it, with some of the things you find in the health food shop, you could spend hundreds of pounds on this, that, and the other and feel like nothing's actually making any difference. But yeah, these products are so powerful and potent and pure, um, and really, really work. You know, it's just been with such gratitude that we've stumbled across it and then been able to share it with the world. So are you saying that, say, adaptogenic products are purer than say just like supplements you'd pick up in, you know, I mean a drug, you know, Holland and Barrett, other places available, etc. You're saying they're stronger and more potent? They are stronger and more potent, yes, and you do have to be a little bit, excuse me, careful with adaptogens. So medicinal mushrooms would fall under the category of adaptogens and You know, we've worked with the medical herbalist to create, uh, in the case of Harmony, a daily dose. So you'd be taking 5 grams per day. Yeah, strongly recommend that you don't take more than that because this is, this is plant-based medicine. Um, you know, it is potent, it's had clinical data, clinical trials, and it's scientifically backed. So just in the same way you'd be careful with medicine from your GP, you, you would take that caution with this plant-based medicine as well. And luckily enough, with the product, it is in a daily dose sachet, so it's impossible to get it wrong with Harmony. You just take your daily dose. And then we, we launched this product earlier this year and it started selling incredibly well, very fast. I think women are really good at passing on, you know, things that work to each other. Um, but what happened is something interesting. A lot of women then got in touch with us saying, oh well, I don't have a natural cycle though. So with Harmony, you need to, you need to cycle track and you need to be having a natural cycle. So if you're on HRT or the pill or have a coil fitted, you can't really use Harmony. Okay. So those women contacted us saying, well, I, I like the idea of medicinal mushrooms and adaptogens. Um, you know, I like the idea of something natural, but I don't have a natural cycle. So we worked with Sarah again and created, um, a really beautiful blend called Freedom. And Freedom, you just use— again, it's powdered because it's more bioavailable— and you just use a couple of teaspoons a day, um, in your coffee or smoothie, and Freedom again is clinically proven to help with the symptoms of menopause, but you don't need a natural cycle with Freedom because you're taking the same powder every day. Okay, so, so for like menopausal women, then that's probably better. Is that correct? That's correct. Whereas perimenopause, the cycle. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's exactly right. So if you're in perimenopause and you're still having a cycle, we would recommend Harmony and you're having irregular cycles or not natural cycles. So if you're in menopause or if you're on HRT or the coil, then Freedom would be the one that you can use. And Freedom is a really beautiful blend. It's got lots of lion's mane in it, which is a medicinal mushroom that helps clear brain fog, helps with memory, mental clarity and focus. It's also a prebiotic, so it's very good for gut health. So we're having some really great feedback from the ladies that are using Freedom. Wow, it's really strange that you've come on and started talking about this because in the last month or so I met a young boy at a sort of spiritual soul festival who, he was autistic but he's got his Lion's Mane coffee Right, yeah, that was the first thing. And then, um, I had the vicar over. She's a reverend actually, and she has face fillers, believe it or not. Okay, she actually does. Um, and she had just been on a retreat where people were given these mushrooms and it was all cleansing and, you know, getting the bad like vibes out of you. And it was a bit kind of like spiritual type thing, but it's— now you've just talked about them, and that's the third time in a month. So obviously people are like learning and getting on to this, this, um, this mushroom thing. I think it's the universe giving you a sign that you need to start taking them. I definitely think so, you know, um, because the vicar was trying to convince me to take it. Yeah. And now you, you girls are talking about it. Um, yeah, particularly there has been quite a lot of press recently talking about how lion's mane is really good if you've got ADHD. It's like, so yeah, people are moving over, and especially after the last 3 years that's kind of— we've all lived through this pandemic situation, and, you know, people have perhaps taken a vaccine that they didn't really feel that they needed to take or wanted to take. And they're not, you know, we've heard of lots of people who had side effects from it. One of the side effects being that it upset the female cycle quite a lot. So has recently come into the mainstream media, although it had been talked about a lot on alternative health for basically the entire time. And of course, women are looking for a way to balance their cycle and get it back into the natural rhythm. Well, Harmony is a great product for that because you're supporting each phase of your cycle naturally. Also, one thing to say about Harmony as well, that in your cycle, if you have like one phase of your cycle, it's not performing optimally. So generally it seems to be around ovulation that women hold on to the estrogen in ovulation. They then move forward into their luteal phase being very estrogen dominant, which is Certainly what I was my entire life. So I'd go into luteal with very sore boobs, feel quite bloated, and that would go for the last part of my cycle every month like clockwork. Well, now we take, you know, the adaptogens on the ovulation blend. It actually helps to flush out all of the excess estrogen. So I go very much into my luteal without this feeling now, and I don't have any PMT. I don't get any sore boobs. I just have like a really calm luteal phase and then go on to menstruation. So what, what ingredients are in the other 3 phases then? So there's 22 ingredients in total, which— so I won't go through them all because it will take ages. Okay. But to give you an— so we just talked broadly speaking, there are medicinal mushrooms in each of them and adaptogenic herbs, and there's afront in every single one. So No matter what phase you're in, you will get a daily dose of açafrão when on Harmony, and that's also true of Freedom. So there's açafrão in Freedom. Um, in, uh, Harmony, there's a different medicinal mushroom for each of the phases. So we've got chaga mushroom in there, which really helps us. Um, it's a really good antioxidant. Well done. Um, it's one of the most powerful antioxidants in the world, actually, very rich in vitamins and minerals, and it really helps strengthen the system and clears your skin. So the chaga mushrooms in there, ashwagandha we mentioned earlier, earlier, that's in the menstruation blend because that's generally when women feel like they need to be calmed down a little bit and it just helps with your sleep, prevents stress. There's raw cacao, which makes it taste nice. So raw cacao really helps get rid of irritability and moodiness and helps with mood, helps like lighten your mood. Um, it also— in the menstruation one, actually, there's some ginger, organic ginger, that helps relieve menstrual cramps. There's some rose, which helps soothe pains and cramps, and beetroot. Again, healthy-looking skin, a really rich source of photochemical and bioactive compounds. And then in the follicular one, we've got reishi spore. So that's a medicinal mushroom. Okay. Very energizing, so really supportive during the follicular phase. There's some goji berry, which is a female fertility tonic used a lot in Chinese medicine. Um, rosehip, really high in vitamin C. Red clover, which traditionally is used for detox and promoting clear skin. Um, and then in the ovulation one, we've got cordyceps, which is my favorite medicinal mushroom. It really boosts your aerobic capacity and helps with energy stores. It's very energizing. So Cordyceps is the one— a few people have heard of that actually, because that's the one that the Russian Olympic athletes were using back in the 1970s to help their performance. So it really helps with like aerobic stuff and strength. We've also got Shatavari in there, which is very targeted nourishment for the uterus, really helps with female reproductive health. Haskap berries, really good for immune support. Baobab, adrenal support, so really helps keep you calm. It supports collagen production as well and helps balance the blood sugars. Milk thistle, I think París just mentioned that, so that helps your liver process any of the additional estrogen and gets rid of it. Toxins. Mhm. And then luteal, we've got ashwagandha in there as well to— because luteal is when people generally feel stressed. Um, we've got reishi mushroom, so anti-inflammatory, helps with liver support and keeping a good mood. We've got maca, which is a really brilliant adaptogenic herb. It really boosts fertility and your immune system and gives you a real energy boost. So that's great in the luteal phase. Cinnamon tastes great. It's also a powerful anti-inflammatory. Wild blueberry because it's an anti-inflammatory and helps with circulation. And then we've got some more beetroot on there, helps with the eye health, blood circulation, and an inulin prebiotic, luteal, which helps your sleep quality and helps with your gut health. And then afrom, I think I said, is in all of those. So actually, I just read you all of our 20 tips. You said you wasn't going to do that. Carried away. You haven't got sage in there at all. I thought it's going to come up with sage in a minute. Why is, why is that? Just curious. Yeah, we haven't got sage in there. We've really opted for adaptogenic, um, and the other thing that we should really say is, um, with the herbs and mushrooms, when they're adaptogenic, if you mix the right ones together, they have a synergistic effect. So they actually, um, amplify each other's potency. So under the guidance of the medical herbalist, she has put together the herbs and mushrooms that really complement one another, right? Um, so if you were to take them individually, they wouldn't have such a potent effect as when you take them mixed together. I'm really excited by this. I really want to try it. Yeah, I think you'd love it. Well, we're definitely going to send you some lion's mane, aren't we? Yeah, yeah, please, please. What— so if you are on like traditional HRT. Yeah. Could you use this alongside it, or do you need to sort of come off of that to use this? No, you can stay on your HRT and you can use Freedom alongside it. So Freedom will really help support if you're still having a few symptoms while you're on HRT. And that's really why we made it to help women who are on HRT. They're still having symptoms, you know, stay on the HRT. You can use Freedom alongside it. And actually, a lot of women now are coming back to us saying they were on HRT, they used Freedom alongside it, and now they've stopped or reduced taking their HRT, using Freedom instead of it. That's what I wondered, if it was something that, you know, eventually would take over and you could just use it on its own. Yeah, it is happening. I suppose every woman is individual, and certainly we've got no opinion about people taking HRT. You must take what you need and what you're comfortable with taking. But we are finding that women who are wanting to kind of reduce their dose on HRT or come off it altogether, they're using Freedom to do that, which is always nice to hear. It's amazing. It's such a great solution that you've come up with. I'm impressed. Thank you. It kind of felt like we didn't have much choice. We had to come up with something because I felt like at the time this PMT issue or luteal phase issue I was having was going to lead to divorce. Yeah, yeah, or prison or something. Yeah, exactly. Something bad was going to happen if I didn't get a handle on it. Um, so I was quite determined in those days to like find a solution that worked. And I know Paris felt similar about her perimenopause. Yeah, I was— I felt really desperate because when I went to the doctors and kind of explained my symptoms, they— the offering that they gave me was either Um, antidepressants. I wasn't depressed. Yeah. Beta blockers. Yeah. For anxiety. Well, okay, I was having anxiety, but I didn't feel like I needed beta blockers. Sleeping tablets so that I could sleep. You know, all of these things I felt I didn't actually need and didn't want to take. Um, and Eventually they basically said, well, there's nothing really else we can offer you. So you can take those or that's it really. You know, you're on your own. So in general, Jodie and I try to live pretty healthy lifestyles anyway. And that's one thing we should say about adaptogens that, you know, if you are living a traditional— when I say traditional in inverted commas, like English life, which involves drinking quite a lot of alcohol, eating eating quite a lot of junk food, being stressed, as normal— it's normalized in England. Well, you can't take an adaptogen and expect to feel better within 7 days, you know. Like, you do have to look at yourself holistically and your entire lifestyle. Like, it should be part of a healthy lifestyle, and then you're really going to feel the benefits of it. Now, as you get into perimenopause and further on into menopause— and this is just my experience of it that I feel like it's not necessarily a negative time of your life. And I know it's really pitched like that to us, that we have symptoms and it's almost an illness. Well, yes, we do have symptoms, but I feel like those symptoms have a, a natural place where they can be managed. Um, but I also feel that it's a time of your life where you can really take stock of yourself and what you're doing and make changes that are really positive for you. So I do feel like I went kind of into a bit of a little cocoon for a couple of years and then came out feeling much more empowered with what I want to be doing with the rest of my life. Part of that with me is I want to be horse riding a lot because I am a horse rider and have been since a child. Kind of stopped that when I had children. And then I started feeling off in the perimenopause, headaches and pains, felt like, oh God, I'm never gonna get back on a horse, you know, and love that. Well, I can happily say that I'm galloping through a forest or a beach again and riding a lot and really feeling like, yeah, I've made that my priority, that my health is my priority and doing the exercise that brings me the most joy is also my priority and taking care of myself is my priority now. That's quite hard to do in England because there's a lot of pressure on us. You know, as a lot of people are working full-time, when you're hitting your perimenopause years, you're kind of in that time where you've got children and your parents are getting older and you've got full-time work. So it's really hard to make those things your priority. But I do think it's a phase where you have to do that and take that step and feel empowered to do that. Yeah, I agree, I agree. Have you got your own horse, by the way? Not at the moment. I was sharing a beautiful Spanish horse last year, um, but because I still work a lot, obviously, um, and it's a really big commitment on time. I mean, the dream for me is to be in a cottage with a bit of land and a horse right outside the back door, um, So yeah, at the moment I'm up at the stables a lot and was yesterday up there riding and galloping through the forest, which is just blissful, especially in the autumn. Oh yeah, yeah, beautiful. Well, that's exactly what, um, we, we're going to do, funnily enough. Um, we have got a place, we have got a holiday home in Norfolk, but we're gonna, we're gonna sell it and we are gonna move to Suffolk where land, you get a lot more land for less money. If you get what I mean. And, um, even though I'm not a horsey person, I'm going to have land and I'm going to have the stables where other people can keep their horses. Like, um, that's my dream as well. So, and we have to make it a reality because we don't— we're not on this earth for that long really, are we? No, we're not. We're not. It's funny, isn't it, how when you talk to people, a lot of the time their dream is like moving to the country, And it's all— for me, it's the thing that we've all got in common is that connection to nature. We all just feel connected to nature. Do you know what I want most of all? I know this sounds really ridiculous. I want a river in my garden. Oh, that doesn't sound ridiculous. It sounds beautiful. It's just like running water through my garden. I could sit on the, the bank, you know. And I mean, I've got 5 dogs, so I'm, I'm dog But, um, yeah, like, that sounds wonderful, what you just— what you was just saying about, like, riding your horse in the autumn through the crunchy leaves. I know, it's just blissful, it really is. And, you know, Jodie said that we want to be connected to nature. You know, one thing that's really kind of educated out of us in England is we are nature, you know, like We sit separate to nature, but we actually are nature. So when we take natural health products, our body recognizes that this is nature and it responds positively to it. So if you take pharmaceuticals, there's a list when you get your tablets from the doctors of side effects, you know, because your body does not recognize this. It's a chemical. Of course there's a place for pharmaceuticals, there's a place for hospitals, there's a place for doctors. Of course there is, with modern medicine. Medicine. If you're in a car accident, don't take an adaptogen, go to the hospital. You know, if you've broken your limbs, go to the hospital. But there's also a place for natural medicine. And, you know, as we've grown in this journey and learned in this journey as well, it's always my first port of call. What can I take naturally? What can I give my children naturally? How can I support their immune system? Naturally, you know, firstly with children and with all of us, it's food. Eating organic, natural, unprocessed food. That's the best place to start for everyone. Yeah. A lot of illness in the modern world is from the food we're taking. A lot of the hormone disruption that women and men feel is because the food we're taking is full of hormones. It's wrapped in plastic. Yeah. Stuff. I do agree with you totally. Yeah, and of course it's convenient, isn't it, to just grab something quickly and heat it up and eat it and carry on with your lives. But if you're looking at actually your health and how you're living, convenience isn't always— well, isn't— yeah, ever really. I know, it's the mad world that we live in though, isn't it? I mean, you know, I mean, I'm a, I am a kind of a women's libber, really. But, you know, by, by, by doing that or being a women's lib, we put even more pressure on ourselves. Yeah. Because we want the job, the big job, but we want the children, and then we don't have any time, and then we eat the wrong things and we get stressed and all of that, and it isn't good for your health. Um, at all. And so I think women have kind of put pressure on themselves in a way. But the world— I mean, I talk about it, my husband— it's gone mad. The world's gone mad. It's gone completely mad. It has. And you know, one of the things we, we talk about a lot is that in our ancestors, they would have been using these plant medicines a long time before the pharma industry kind of took over. Also, our ancestors, they had the wise women. So our great-great-grandmothers and all the women before them, there were wise women in their tribe, and they would pass down the wisdom from mother to daughter. And somewhere along the line, it's just got lost. And I think what you're saying is probably part of it. The women's lib movement, you know, women having it all and doing it all. Having it all means doing it all. Yeah. You know, we've lost that wisdom and that connection to Mother Earth. And one thing I can say for sure is when I started taking Harmony, I felt— and it sounds crazy, but I felt a strong connection to the trees that I hadn't felt before. And I, you know, I started actually touching trees and talking to them. Aww, that's so sweet. Yeah, so lovely. It does sound crazy. It does sound crazy, but it's there. And I've I think, you know, like Paris was saying earlier, your cells remember when you start taking natural plant-based stuff. Your cells remember, and they're grateful for that. They appreciate that. And it's this connection back to nature that, you know, we are nature, like we were saying. So it just— it's a very intuitive medicine for me. And like I said, I think we had no choice but to create it because I can't imagine going through perimenopause and menopause with zero support. Yeah, you do need support of some kind, um, and our ancestors, this is what they would have done to support each other. Well, most, most like medicines came from plants anyway, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, before, before they were like changed in, in laboratories or enhanced or whatever. Everything would, you know, years ago they didn't have that, so they had to use plants, and I suppose that was just by like luck really, or trying out lots of different plants to see what they did. Someone must have done that along the way, like you say, the old wise ladies would have done that, and so yeah, I do agree, it is the way forward, and You know, you do hear, like, I watched a program on Netflix the other night. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's about the, um, the, the, the pharmas, the pharmaceutical company that was basically killing people in America and getting them hooked on this really strong, like, morphine type. Oh, was it Oxy? Yeah, yeah, I've seen that. I was like, oh my God, they were just literally killing people to make money, getting them addicted, and Yeah, it's crazy. So we need to take control of our own lives. I think it is crazy, isn't it? And I often think, how did the wise women of olden days know which plants to try? You know, it's the witches of their time. Yeah, how did they know? I've actually, um, we've always had dogs. I've got one dog at the moment, and I always look at her and think, when she's sick, she knows what to go and eat in the park. She'll sniff it out and she'll, and she just knows. And horses are are the same, aren't they? When they're not well, they know. They just know instinctively which plants to eat. And I think probably our ancestors were the same. They just knew. We've been really socialized to turn our instinct off, you know, to become very kind of brain-led rather than gut-led in the way that we lead our lives. And, you know, I'm sure everyone has a story when they're like, oh, if I only just trusted my gut, instinct and did that, that wouldn't have happened. You know, it's there within us, but we're all trained to like not listen to it and just go with, you know, what our brain is saying or what someone else is telling us. And part of the adaptogen use for me was really the part of this kind of conscious living that I really do now. So it's conscious about everything that I'm consuming, not just the food or the plant medicine, but also the media that I'm time-consuming. You know, we are bombarded with stuff on social media 24/7. You know, it's like mainlined into us, and the vast majority of it, your life isn't made better by watching it. You know, you're wasting your time, you're scrolling. I mean, that mindless scrolling feels so just destructive to me. Yeah, I think about what life was like before that existed, you know, to be cooking, reading a book, you know, learning. Why is it so addictive though? Because I actually have the same problem. I mean, I've had, you know, people on the show that have said to me, please don't look at your phone when you go to bed and start scrolling because of the blue light and all the rest of it. But I still do it. Yeah, it's an addiction. Yeah, it is addictive. Why? Tech companies have the smartest people in the world creating apps that are addictive because we are— our eyes on the screen is revenue for them. So if they had a different business model, it wouldn't be like that. But their business model is keeping us on the screen as long as possible, and they've got the smartest people in the world creating things like the endless scroll. You know, imagine if the scroll went after 10 minutes, you said, oh, you've had enough now, you can't go on it for an hour, and stopped you, well, you'd put it down, wouldn't you? You haven't got anything else to do. But it doesn't. It's an endless scroll. Endless. Yeah. You know, and I see it in my children, and that worries me. Oh, it's so sad, isn't it? Yeah. And I feel like years gone by, we had real deep thought. You know, we would sit and we would deeply think about things. We would go to a library to get a book search. Yeah, we would read about it, we would think again. Well, now everything feels so surface level, you know. It's like headline, scroll to the next one, opinion formed, scroll to the next thing. Someone's saying this, someone's doing that, you know. It feels so fast and just, I don't know, off to me, this. And so this part of taking adaptogens is very much consciously what am I putting into my body, you know, what am I putting into my mind, how I'm choosing to use my time. And of course I'm also guilty of doing the endless scroll as well, but I also remind myself, stop it, put it down. Yeah, like don't have your phone next to you at bedtime, put it downstairs and charge it there, have an old-fashioned alarm clock to wake you up. I, I have my phone next to me though, because to get to sleep I listen to the sound of a fan or a Hoover. Do you believe that? I do. What? Why noise? So now there are apps out there that, um, yeah, you can get fan noises, Hoover noises, hair dryers. They're all my favorites. But I do worry that the phone is quite close to my head. Yeah, but that's a habit that I've I picked up— well, my mum said to me that when I was a little child, when she was doing the hoovering, I used to follow her around and lay on the floor listening. Right. Obviously picked it up from then. And then when she stopped, I would say, 'Can you hoover some more, Mum?' You know. So there was something in the sound. So even things like sounds. Yeah, yeah. But they're not like natural sounds, are they? It's not the wind or the rain. I like the bloody hair dryer for some bizarre reason. Well, it's quite noisy. Have you ever gone to a gong bath at all? I, I've— I have a sound bath. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to my first one about a year ago, laid in a field with lots of other ladies. Yeah, and I thoroughly enjoyed it actually. Yeah, I do. I really enjoy a gong bath as well, and I always have a really brilliant sleep sleep the night of the gong. I feel like it, like, because it changes your cells in some way, doesn't it? The sound. Yeah. But I must admit, I do get the same feeling when I go to the hairdresser's because I have all the hair dryers going on in the background, so that makes me feel really nice. I'm sorry, it is. I'm like, oh God, this is the best place in the world. There's 6 or 7 hair dryers at the same time. Yeah, so yeah, we're all a bit mad, aren't we? But, um, yeah, I mean, you— yeah, you're amazing, you two girls. And, um, yeah, so do you think you'll be in any more products, or is this, this it now? Or do you think there'll be— you'll be adding things? Oh, we've got plans soon. We've got, um, in fact, on the— by the 20th of October this month, we will have launched our organic ashwagandha. Ashwagandha. So the one, the herb that it all started with, with creating our own brand of ashwagandha. So women, if they just want to give adaptogens a go, or men actually, anyone that wants to give adaptogens a go, ashwagandha is a great place to start. So on our website you can buy Harmony for perimenopause, Freedom for menopause, Lion's Mane, which I would say also really brilliant for peri and menopause. Yeah. Ashwagandha will be there very, very soon. And then before Christmas we'll have Power, which is a male vitality blend, because I think— can't leave the men out, you know. Yeah, and we're feeling a bit left out, I think. So yeah, so we've created Power, which is for vitality, energy, libido, um, and focus for men. Yeah, and that product's in trial at the moment, and it has been trialing really well. So already we've had the women say to us, can we subscribe to this? Because their men are doing great on it, like mood being uplifted, energy uplifted, libido. Some of the men have told us that we should be marketing it as a natural Viagra. Really? Yeah, that's been quite interesting. But that is the beauty of adaptogens. Adaptogens adapt to what the body needs. So in the males who've told us Well, it's like a natural Viagra. They obviously needed that boost. Yeah. And who've told us it's lifted my depression, they obviously needed that. And that is the beauty of using adaptogens, is how they adapt to each individual person. So when did you make that word up, or is that what, you know, is that an adaptogen? I mean, is that— no, Is that in the dark dictionary? Yeah, yeah, adaptogen. I think the word was first used in the 1970s by the Soviet scientist who was researching how to, uh, blow up the world. Yeah, how to win the Olympics, I think. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, so they were trying to give their athletes a natural advantage so it wouldn't get picked up in a drug test. Ah, and they— yeah, sneaky. So they sneaky. Yeah, sneaky. They discovered that cordyceps would give them, which is the medicinal mushroom, would give them, um, an advantage in terms of strength and stamina. So that's how— that's why their athletes were historically so bloody strong. Yeah. Oh, so mushrooms really are wonderful, aren't they? They really are. They're life-changing. Wow, hearing so much about mushrooms. And you know what, you're right, something's telling me that I need to be taking mushrooms because it's happening a lot. It's the universe. Yeah, exactly. But, um, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, so because what do you think, girls? Do you think that, you know, suddenly there's been this big, um, like menopause explosion, hasn't there? You know, yeah. And I think even myself, I think, well, am I jumping on the bandwagon? You know, because I have a menopause clinic, but that wasn't the reason. It was, it was my life experiences with it that made me become so interested and study it. And I found out, like, like you were saying, when I, when I had problems which were bad, really bad, I went to probably 8 or 10 different doctors, specialists, all sorts of things, and none of them knew what, what was really wrong with me. I mean, like, they were like, you know, you said they'd give you antidepressants, or, yeah, you know, like my GP, I had— this is quite hard to say, but I had like really bad vaginal atrophy where It literally would— my skin would break when I was walking and things like that, right? And my GP said, I'll put some Vaseline on it, right? Do you know what I mean? And don't ride a bike. She actually said that. Have you been riding a bike? And I'm like, no. I mean, it was like, didn't have a clue. Yeah. But lately I feel like information is getting out there. Do you, do you think it's getting better? Yeah, I think it's definitely getting better. I mean, it's kind of the Davina McCall effect a little bit, that, you know, she was quite outspoken about her menopause and also about taking HRT as well. But I think, yeah, women, you know, historically were kind of suffering in silence Yes. And not really sharing it. But now I think it's much more acceptable to kind of openly talk about it. And, you know, even companies have their own, you know, corporations have their own kind of menopause rules now, don't they, where they're giving women time off or they're supporting them in different ways, which is brilliant, like really brilliant because it's not an illness, you know, but we are getting symptoms. And we do. Do you think there's a danger though that it's gonna be like too much? Do you understand what I mean? Like, for example, um, I was interviewing a lady the other day and she's, she's a small business lady and, um, she said she wouldn't be able to afford to have women have time off for menopause. Yeah, she said she couldn't afford that, which I could understand because a small business? Do you think, do you think it's going to go too far the other way? Because we're all kind of like shouting about it now, aren't we? I think actually that the government should be helping businesses, yes, to be able to afford— Oh, controversial! Well, how long— That was Paris, wasn't it? No, that's Jodie. Oh, because I always feel like Paris seems to be the slightly more stronger. Oh, the one with the, um, that I could imagine lost her temper more. Um, but then I didn't— I thought that was Paris saying that. Sorry. Yeah, that is controversial for me. But imagine how wonderful it would be if every woman that is employed, if their employer could say to her, yeah, of course you need to take time off when you're having menopausal symptoms, and the government is paying for that. Or even better, 'Here's some supplements that you can have,' so that your employer is paying for you to have supplements as part of the package. How lovely that would be. That would be lovely. Should we do that? Should we put it to the— Shall we get in touch with Richie? Yes, go and knock on Number 10. Free supplements and time off, that would be great. So, oh yeah, so, um, I do think that it is getting better though. Like you say, the information out there, there's so much more, so much more support, support groups, all sorts of things are going on instead. And, and that's amazing because many years ago, well, people would have burnt us at the stake. Yeah, exactly. Think we're crazy. Or I heard someone said that, um, probably like 50 years ago, the suicide rate in women around the age of 50 was extremely high. And now we know probably why, really. It was the menopause. Yeah. And not that they were, you know, going crazy. So, I mean, why— why, if you could come back, would you come back as a man? No, no. I mean, in some ways they have it easier, don't they? I mean, you know, we've got periods, then we've got pregnancies, then we've got perimenopause, and we've got menopause. I mean, women really go through it, don't you think? They go through it more than men, really. I think they do. I mean, they do, don't they? We all go through it more than men. Men get an easy ride every step of the way, but I also think there's something quite magical about being a woman, you know. Yeah, I've been lucky enough to have 3 children, and I found that whole thing just wonderful, like bearing a new life and giving birth to them. And I mean, it's hard, isn't it? But there's also something really magical about all of that that men will never experience. And, and the periods and the perimenopause and the menopause, again, there's hard bits to that, but I also feel like now especially you lean into it, um, and you work with it and you live your life in harmony, in tune with it. And you— and I feel like women, when they do that, they're way more powerful than men. I wouldn't swap. Okay, well, that's a good answer. So I don't think I would really. It's just that sometimes I just think, you know, it's a bit easier. But then I suppose men Men have their own problems, don't they? They have to be the man of the house and be the one that's not scared and all of that. They feel those kind of pressures. I think it's hard for men these days as well, because especially when women have come— women are becoming so capable and so, like I say, powerful. It's hard. I imagine that's hard for men in many ways. I think it's hard to find their masculinity, isn't it? Like, you know, We want a masculine man, but we don't want a toxic masculine man. Yeah, I know, between it. So I think it's— and there's not a lot of great role models for men out there at the moment in society. Um, yeah, role model then, as a man, just curious, have you got a good— if you can you think of someone that's a good role model? Well, um, You can't think of anyone? Philip Schofield, who I know— I don't— I met, I met Philip Schofield a few times and he was fine, and maybe he became a bit arrogant, bit big-headed, etc., but what did he actually do wrong to get his whole life ruined? Oh yeah, I know, you know, you know, with, with a boy, but it was consented He was of age. Yeah, so why— he's destroyed that guy now. He's totally destroyed. I know, we, we often have discussed that as well. And the thing is with the Russell Brand story is that we have obviously done those things. It's up to a court floor, it's not up to the media. Yeah, no, I totally agree, totally agree. Um, just, just even in a small way, like I have a husband who's sort of, you know, been in the public eye, and the things that get said about you and that are not true, and it's just awful really. So yeah, I imagine you have to have a really thick skin. You do. You don't read it, otherwise you would, um, well, you just wouldn't be able to carry on really. It's so vile. Um, but there you go. I'm glad that you ladies are doing what you're doing, can you please send me some? We will. I really want to try. I actually really want to try it. The, the, you know, when the Vicar was talking to me about the mushroom thing, I got a little bit anxious. I thought, oh, am I going to feel high or something? No, no, no. But yours sounds like, you know, kosher sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. No, you won't at all feel any sort of high. You'll just feel clear-headed. It would take away any sort of brain fog, but it's not magic. Mushrooms, they are magic mushrooms, but they're not magic. They're not those magic mushrooms. Yeah, exactly. Yes, I definitely want some. So, um, where can you tell, um, our listeners where your website and how they can get hold of your product? Yeah, so the website is www.adaptogenicapothecary.com. Www.stoppus.com. Massive mouthful, I realize. The easiest way and quickest way, go on to Instagram or Facebook and find us on there, and it will link through to the website. And currently we're selling online on our website and in a few independent health shops, cafes, and the natural dispensary. So stop us. No, I think we're keen to share it as as far and wide as we can because women are just responding so well to it and coming back and being so grateful that they found something natural that works. It's brilliant for us. You know, that was the whole reason we, we did it. Is this your full-time job now? Um, not yet. I just wondered, do you do other things as well then? Yeah, we do. So Paris and I also run a PR agency, and we've been doing for a long time. Sounds like it. Oh, so have you— so how long did you have your PR agency? Or you've got it still? Yes, 16 years. Wow. Yeah, yeah, tough girls. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. So, um, well, it's been really, really lovely to have you on the show, and it's gone really quick, so it must have been, um, you know, so interesting. Because the time's gone really, really quickly. And, um, thank you for coming on and sharing with us. And everyone out there, I think you should try Harmony or Freedom or Lion's Mane. I'm definitely going to try the Lion's Mane. And, um, yeah, thank you. Thanks for coming on and telling us all about your product. Thank you for having us. Oh good, yeah, it's been fun. I've enjoyed it. Yeah. Okay, well, thank you ladies, and, um, hopefully I'll speak to you again soon. Definitely. Okay, so this is, uh, women's radio station, and this is my show, The Menopause Show. And that was lovely to have, um, Paris and Jodie on just now and tell us all about their They're quite strong ladies, aren't they? I like them. Oh, they're still there, they're listening. Harris, I'd be scared. Okay, well, thank you everybody, and I'll see you all soon. Bye.