The Menopause Show With Sue Moxley – Silvina Neder, A Life Changing Story In Menopause

Hi, this is Sue Moxley. This is Women's Radio Station and this is The Menopause Show. If you want to follow us on Instagram or Facebook or YouTube, please just go to Women's Radio Station and we're on there. So my guest today is Sylvina Neda, or Neda, I don't think she minds how I pronounce it, but hi Sylvina. Hi Sue, how are you? Very good, thank you. Lovely to talk to you on a Friday afternoon. Oh, thank you very much. Tell us about yourself and, you know, what it is you do and all of that kind of thing. Okay, well, I am Silvina. I have a very strong accent because I am from Argentina. My native language is Spanish with an Italian accent. And I've been living here in London for the past 9 years almost, right? And I used to be a market researcher, I used to work in marketing, but now I work as a model and an actor and influencer. Wow. Thanks to my gray hair. And I am, I have launched my gray hair care line. So I made a massive change in my career near my 50s. And why did that happen? How did that happen? That you, you know, you was, you know, plodding along and then all of a sudden your whole life changed. Yeah. Well, I, as I said, I worked in consumer insights and marketing for 30 years, more or less. And I came to London in 2015. To work in market research. I have my own business, my own agency, but when I came here, I said, well, I need to improve my English, I need to get used to London and the UK. Yeah, so I joined an agency, a market research agency, as an employee. Well, it was a massive, massive change, and I wouldn't say it was a good experience for me because it was change of language, change of culture, change of city, and also a change of— I was used to be, I was used to be the boss, you know, to be the owner of the company, and being an employee, and I was about to turn 50, and my boss or my workmates were in their late 20s, 30s. Yeah, and also the industry was changing a lot because I am I would say market research, consumer insights, I am old school, like doing surveys, focus groups, all those things. And now by that time, it was starting everything to move to big data, social, all the information that is out there, more than going and asking someone what they think. So it was a complete, complete new scenario for me. Why did you come to London in the first place though? Yeah, that's interesting. I was living in Spain with my husband. She's from Spain and I actually, I missed a lot Buenos Aires. I lived in Buenos Aires for 30 years before that and I missed, missed the massive city. And also I had came in, I had been in London when I was in my 20s and it was my dream to come to London. Okay. So I used the excuse of market research of my career. To come to London, so she was very nice to join me, and yeah, I started working market research, but then it didn't work and I changed. Okay. I found this new thing. Yeah. And yeah, and I came to London because it was a dream, it was something that I, the first time I came to this city, sorry if I'm talking fast or I'm mixing things because— You're absolutely fine, Silvia. Okay, because I I'm used to hearing you think, and I love your accent. Oh, thank you very much. I hope everyone can understand me. Yes. Um, no, but I, I have my mindset, like, for interviews that you have 2 minutes, 3 minutes, so I'm trying to put everything in 1 minute, but I will try to be more detailed and more slow and slower. Um, well, um, I was looking to— I, when I came here to— sorry, I was saying, I was talking about the Why I love London. Yeah. I came in my 20s and oh my God, I love this city. From the first time I saw it, I put a foot in London, I loved it. I loved the diversity. Okay. I love the weather. That's interesting, because loads of people are going to say, wow, she lived in Argentina and then Spain, why does she want to come to London? Because, you know, everyone complains about our weather, but you like it. A lot of people ask me that, what, how can you live? I love it, I really love it. You do not like the heat then, Silvina? Say that again? You do not like the heat? You don't like the sun? I love the heat, I really love the heat and I love the sun and I love doing water sports, for example. Yeah. But I love it to do that, I love the heat to be doing, to be on my paddleboard or to be swimming or to be rowing or to be at the beach, but not to be working. Okay, I get that. Yeah, totally. Yeah, not to be working. And here, every time I see the weather, mostly now in winter, I say, "Oh, fantastic," because I can lock myself at home and work, be with my computer, read, and do all my things. Yeah, I get that. Hibernate. Exactly. Yes, yes. And you do the things outside in the morning. It's nice. Believe me, if you live in a place where you have 365 days of sun, it won't rain. I lived in Valencia, and Valencia is like that. I think it rains 5 days in a year. Wow. So it was like, oh my God, I need some clouds. Yeah, see, my husband really, really loves the heat and he just thinks it's the best thing ever, whereas I love the seasons here in England. Absolutely. But, um, and I'm sure, like you just said, if you have 365 days of sunshine, you must get bored with it in the end. It's like, um, I don't know, I have like my mindset is like if the day is— it's just as if I was born here, I would have been born here because I have that mindset. If the day is nice, I have to be outside. Right. So it's not good for working. You get more done when it's raining, that's what you're saying. Exactly, yes, yes, and I really enjoy, I really enjoy being at home and And now that I'm with my new project, my new Grecia Kia line, I say it's like my baby because all my energy is set on that. I really enjoy when I have the time to go through the questions the customers make, to do my Instagram, to work on the website, to work on mailings. I really love it. I enjoy it. I would be all day doing that. Okay, okay, so tell us about how you ended up, how your life changed from marketing into having your own like hair care range. Well, as I said, I came to London in 2015, yeah, pretending to pursue a career in market research. I joined an agency, it was not the best experience in my life because of all the changes. And I also, I was not used, I was used to work from, I was working from home since I've been working from home since, I don't know, 2005. So going to an office again every day, it was really, really, really tough. Okay. And about that time, I was so overwhelmed with everything. And the one thing that I say, well, okay, I don't have time to color my hair. Okay. I have a lot of hair. Yeah. And I have a lot of white hair. I have white hair since I was in my 20s. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How come? Oh, my mother has it as well. I don't know. Yeah. I think it's genetic. Okay, what colour before you went white or silver? Oh, super, super dark. Was it? Yeah, dark brown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I am Latin, I am quite dark. My skin is quite dark and yeah. So you didn't have time to colour your hair, so you left it? I thought, I was thinking about that I've been, I have been thinking about that for a lot of years, for many years, for 5, 6 years before, but it was unthinkable in Argentina because it's a very traditional society where women have to look young. Men are allowed to get older, but not women. That's always the way, Silvina. Latin, Latin countries, I think it's worth. Okay. I think it changed in the last— I haven't been living there for the past 15 years, but I think it must have changed. But it was tough. I was in my 40s and really you had to look young. And I didn't dare doing— I also had like a desire of trying growing my gray hair because every time I traveled when I was living there, every time I traveled, I saw like very smart women with gray hair. Yeah. And my icon is Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada. Okay. That's my icon of smartness. Yeah. Yeah. And when I came here, I didn't have time, as I said, and something different. You have to— here you have to book an appointment like 2 weeks in advance. I didn't know what would happen in 2 weeks. And it was also very expensive. I have a lot of hair and sometimes I was charged twice for a coloring. Really? Yeah, yeah, because the hairdresser, when they saw my hair, they said, oh my God, no, I need to put double of the product. So yeah. So it was very expensive and was very— I didn't— I couldn't book an appointment for 2 weeks in advance if I don't— I didn't know if I will finish work or that. And on the other hand, inside of me, I really wanted to go gray. Okay. Because of all the things I said. I also thought if gold is a color People dye the hair blonde, blonde, gold is a color, silver is a color as well. Yeah. I use my jewelry silver or gold, why not silver for the hair? Why is this not a color? So well, I said, this is my moment, this is my moment. On one side, it's very hard for me to keep up with the coloring, and on the other side, I want to try it. And on top of that, London is like freedom. You can wear anything you want. Nobody will look at you. Nobody will criticize. Nobody, nobody cares. Yeah, what you wear. I love that. Absolutely love that. I am from a small town in Argentina where everyone knows each other and everyone knows what one is doing. The other— so big cities starting from Buenos Aires and then here For me, it's a liberation. It's a total freedom. Total freedom. Yeah. So I said, well, this is my moment to grow my gray hair. Okay. And I started, I had to color my hair every 2, on top, 3 weeks. Right. My hair grows really fast. So when I was in the first month, I have like 1.5 centimeters and it wasn't very noticeable, at least for me, because when you, when you have something, you are all day looking that. Yeah, you want to hide something. And I started like doing some research to bleach my— the colored part of my hair, so to hide the split, the demarcation, right? Yeah, yeah, I get that. And then consulted one hairdresser, another, and one said, yes, we can do it, but we cannot guarantee how it will look because it's very damaging for the hair. And weeks passed because I didn't have all the day to be researching on that. So one day I went to the hairdresser, the next week we are there, and some many weeks passed. So I had like 4 centimeters. Okay. And then I said, oh, I like it. It's like super silver, super, super silver. I love it. And bright because it was so healthy, the new hair. And I started at the beginning when I had 2-3 centimeters, I put some like a spray, like a color spray that goes with the washing. Yes. But then when I have 4 centimeters, I couldn't do that anymore. And so I wore, I used, I wore like a headband. Okay. So showing the white in front of the headband and the color on the back. And I was working with very young people and I mentioned, oh, I'm growing my gray hair. Oh, that's super cool, they said. We thought you did that on purpose. They were so open, so fresh. I love that. And yeah, my hair grows really, really, really fast. So when I was making up my mind about coloring or cutting or bleaching or cutting, It was 6 centimeters and then 7, and I said, I'm done, I will do a haircut and I'm ready. Okay. Yeah, so I did my transition like letting it grow. So you actually colored it, you just let it grow? Yes, I let it grow, I let it grow. Yeah. But you asked me about the change in my career. Yes. And when that happened, well, I was really struggling at the job because of all the differences and anything. And I decided to work again by myself to have my agency. But in the background, I was trying to look to do something different. I wanted to do something like empowering people to— people who know how to do something to monetize that. Okay. Because I used to have my own business and I'm very entrepreneur. I have a very entrepreneurial But I couldn't shake that. I couldn't shake that. And everywhere I went, people told me, oh, Silvina, I love your hair. I love your look. I dress very informally. I love your look. I love your hair. And as I was coming back to my own agency, market research agency, I went to a photographer to do my new website. And the photographer was— she had photographed— had taken photos to, you know, Daphne Selfridge. She's a very, very old model. Okay. In her 90s. Yeah. And the photographer, Rossi, told me, Silvina, you have to be a model. What? Yeah, in 5 minutes I have the photos. I don't have to tell you what to do. Right. And then I came back home and I said, everyone tells me they love my 'Here, Rossi told me that.' And I said, 'No, Rossi, I'm not. I'm 160 centimeters tall. I am not super thin. I am, you know, I never feel— I never felt that I could be a model at all. Actually, I'm not all the stereotypes of the typical model at all.' And I came back home and Rossi said, 'Silvina, yes, there are lots of great models, but there are models of everything of every type. And I went back home and I Googled Reija models. Yeah, and a lot of agencies popped up. Okay. And as I know how to work, I prepare like a list. I, I prepared those photos. The photos were for a, a business-like, business-like website. Using those photos, I sent emails, and that was on a Tuesday, and on a Sunday I have my first job. Wow! Yeah. First job? Sorry? What was your first job? It was a lifestyle shoot for a bank image, nothing glamorous, but it was my first job. And fun? I bet you had fun, and it was so different from anything you'd done before. That's a lovely question, Sue, because yes, It was fun, but it was weird at the same time. Yeah. Very weird because when you do a photo shoot or film or something, you have to do exactly what the directors say. And I was used to plan things and I don't know. And there you are a model. You have to do what they say, right? Yeah, but I enjoyed it. Yeah, I really, really, really enjoyed it. And that was a Sunday. And Tuesday I had another— same week— on Tuesday I had another shoot that was for a bank. Wow. For a finance company. Wow. It was fun. And then that week I remember that one another agent told me, Silvina, can you go to Milano for a shoot for Moschino? Wow. Wow. Yeah, no, it was very, very exciting. I was like, I couldn't believe it. And I, I, I, I don't know the word in English, but I— shocked. Yeah. But I think that, I think that happened because of London, because in London you can be anyone, you can do whatever you want. Yes. I always say that. I was very happy. And at the same time, I still had my company, my market research, my consumer insight agency. And I had a very, very big client in all Latin America. I did a study, a continuous study in Latin America, but they are a global company. Global FMCG company. And one of those days I was thinking, because I started to be booked and booked and booked, and Silvina, please send photos to this, Silvina, come to this casting, Silvina, da da da. And I started to be very busy and I was entering in the wave where I have to dedicate all my time to that study to carry on. And then they, my client called me very, very, very sad. Silvina, we want to have a meeting with you. They were very, very sad. Said, you know, we are a global company, our headquarters in the United States say that we have to carry this study with the same company in all the world, and they have another American company, which is a massive consultancy, which will do it. So we are very sad because we love working with you. And I said, oh my God, this is my chance. I showed myself very sad there. Yeah, yeah. The meeting finished and I closed my computer and I said, yes, it is done. So then I press delete on my website. I finished another work, another job that I was doing in market research, and then I pressed delete on the website. So what really happened, it kind of happened for you, didn't it? The decision was made for you in one way, But a really good decision, so to start in something new and different and exciting. Exactly, and I think that, I think that you are meant to do something, and all of us, and we have to like let go and accept changes. Yeah. I will say, to be honest, I was not happy in market research in the last— I have been very happy for many years. Yeah. Did a fantastic career, traveled a lot, worked for amazing clients and amazing companies and attended congresses and meetings and a lot of things that I loved. But the last, the final years, I was not happy. Yeah. And I think we have to be honest with ourselves be aware of those things, of the things that don't make us happy anymore. Well, because we've only got one life and it's not that long really, so we should be doing things that we, we love doing rather than, you know, try, or at least try, but at least try. Yeah. And I more, moreover, more than we have one life, it's like It's okay to change. Yeah, it's okay. We don't— if we used to be something, for example, I used to, I used to be a market researcher and I, I did a, I have an MBA and I have a PhD in statistics and a lot of things. Yeah. And a lot of people told me, Silvina, but you studied so much, you're very smart, how come you give up that. Yeah. And I didn't have that thought on me at all. I didn't, I didn't think about that at all. On the contrary, I was thinking I have the chance to do something I never done. Yeah, of course. But I see a lot of people like holding on to something they have done for all their life and they, for example, It's an exercise to let go. Yes. You have to know, you have to be prepared to let go. Yeah. Because I, yeah, I had to start from scratch. Yeah. And in a new country. As well. How old was you when you did this then? I was 47. Right, okay. Yeah, so lots of people are kind of looking towards, you know, maybe thinking about retiring one day when they're 60 or whatever, but you changed your life completely, which is a brilliant thing to do. Yeah, and I think that, um, the world is constantly changing now, and everything changes so fast that the only thing we can do is be ready for change. Yes. But if you hold to anything you used to do or you've been doing for a long time, you miss a chance of something new. Take opportunities. Take opportunities, exactly. I'm not— I am not— I am Silvina, I am not the person 'Who did market research or did this or studied this?' I am not a statistician, I am Silvina. That's right, okay. And I, I now, at the moment was great, and but now I have the, I have a different, a different desire, a different, something different moves me. Yeah, so when, when, um, so when you did your, so you did your modeling, um, And you started to get lots of work. Are you still doing that? Are you still— Yeah, yeah, I'm still doing that. Well, I also started like Instagram was new in 2000— this was 2017 more or less, was quite new. So I started— this is because of an advice of that photographer, Rosie Collins, as well. She said, 'Sibila, put a— make a post every day on Instagram about your hair,' something like that. Okay, I started doing, and I started writing about all the thoughts I had about changing the career because I had to, to be very honest with myself and to, to be aware that I was giving up a full life career, a 30-year-old career. I have done postgraduate studies, a lot of things, and I'm doing something where this doesn't— it's the same if you didn't study anything, or you can do this as well, no? So I was starting from scratch, and I had to do a very deep exercise. And, um, I was reading about all the people who made changes and all the— and accepting age, because also, um, Going gray for me was like a U-turn in acceptance. Yes. Not only the hair, but accepting my age. Yeah. When I was in my early 40s or 30s even, I used to do Botox. Okay. Because I wanted to look younger. Yes. And when I grew my gray hair, I didn't want— I felt great. And I didn't want to look younger. I didn't want— I wanted to look great as I was. Yes. So I started writing on Instagram every day, a photo with a thought or a quote, or for example, a quote that I read and I explained how I felt with that quote. And I started to have followers and followers and followers and followers. Wow. And then a lot of people, Silvina, what do you use in your hair? Your hair looks great. What do you use? What do you use? And I was really struggling to find my gray hair care because I wanted to use a purple shampoo or blue shampoo, but all those purple shampoos or blue shampoos that I found made my hair absolutely dry. Okay. And I was trying to follow the Curly Method where you don't use parabens, you don't use silicones, you don't use sulfates. And I couldn't find any blue or purple shampoo that was good for that. Okay. I have to create it. I have the followers asking for this. I cannot find the product in the market. I didn't mind how much I would pay for them. If it was expensive, I would buy it. Okay. But I didn't find, I couldn't find. So I said, I will create it. And I started in 2018 to look for a manufacturer doing the modeling. Now still doing the modeling. The modeling, I live because of my modeling and I pay my bills because of the modeling. Yeah. And at the same time, I started researching on manufacturers and it took me 4 years to find a manufacturer and the formula. Wow. Yeah, because I wanted to start very, very, very small. This is my company, it's all funded by me, so it was all with my savings. Okay. I invested all my savings. Get it right, invest in all your savings into it. Yeah, yeah, well, I always do. I usually take risks like that, but I always place my worst-case scenario, and if I can deal with my worst-case scenario, which is selling the first production, I don't know, in 2 years. Well, it's okay if I recover the money, it's fine. Yeah, but, um, I, I super believe in the concept, in the, in the product. And yeah, so I, I did my research for 4 years. I did a test with the formulas. I tested a lot of formulas. Then I, I found the form the developer found the formula, we tested, and I launched last December. But I am still doing the modeling because this company still needs my funding. Yeah, it's in its infancy then if you only launched last December, so what, 11 months to go? Yeah, 11 months, it will be 1 year soon. I'm going to ask you where you But was it English, the manufacturer? Yes, it's English. I'm just curious, that's where you, you know, where you found— No, I decided to make it here. Many people recommended me to go to even China or South America or Italy or other countries, but I say with the Brexit, with everything, it's better to have everything here. I'm living here now, so the best thing is to have my business here and everything. Yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right. I know lots of people that, that, you know, have had so much trouble because of Brexit, getting importing their goods and all of that thing. So yes, and I didn't look for price, for cost efficiency. I looked for quality and I looked for the formula I like with the ingredients I wanted and and that, and that, and someone who would do the quantities I could afford. Because if, for example, if I were Unilever, of course I would find a manufacturer in one day. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a restriction on the quantities. Yeah. And it was tough for that as well. But I am super happy because I launched in December. It took Many months. I am only selling on my website. Okay, what's your website called? Silvina, like my name, silvinalondon.com. Oh, that's a nice website name, I like that. Yeah, I love it. So tell me about the ingredients in your shampoos then that are so good for gray hair. Tell you something that you mentioned the name. Okay. Yeah. At the beginning I said, I think that there are things that are meant to be for you because I put the name Sylvina London, like my name, because Sylvina is like silver. Yeah. And so I said, it's a great name for, for the shampoo. Yeah. For the, for a great shampoo, for a shampoo for silver hair people. London, because I think I did this because of London. Because the freedom I feel in London. Okay, going back to the ingredients. Yes. Well, it has the main difference with all the shampoos for blonde or for gray hair that are in the market is that the pigments are naturally derived. Okay. And they are from blue gardenia, and another ingredient, another naturally derived ingredient, and they are using a very precise level. So you can wash your hair with that, my blue shampoo, every day. I wash my hair every day, right, because I do sports, so I feel my hair is dirty, I wash it every day. And it doesn't strip the oils out of your hair and things like that? No, because it has a lot of naturally derived oils as well. It has rosehip oil, it has aloe vera for the scalp. I say it, but it's a shampoo and the conditioner that have those, some things the shampoo and some things the conditioner. Coconut oil, it has black oat extract, which is great for the hair growth. What is black what? Sorry, black oat extract. Black. Black oat. Black oat, what is that? O-A-T. Oh, oat. Oat. My pronunciation for me was the same as yours, but you say oat. Yeah, okay, I get that now. Black oat, yeah. Black oat. How do you say it? Black oat. Ah, oat. Black oat. Oat. I was aiming to do, I was to do an RP training, but now I don't have time. I started it and I gave up because I really don't have time, but I would love to improve my English. You don't need to, it's very good. I mean, literally, I mean, you know, I don't speak any other language at all. Well, I can kind of say hello in a few languages and that's about it. So you're doing very well and you don't need to. Oh, thank you very much. To be honest, I studied a lot when I was a girl. I studied English since I was in kindergarten, then at school, then when we were in secondary school, which is the A-levels here. My parents say, no, English is compulsory. It's like school. You cannot give up English classes. You do whatever you want, but you go to your English classes. So when I came here, I thought I had passed many exams for studying in English or whatever, but when I came here to London, I didn't understand anything. Yeah, it's different, I suppose. Oh my God, and so many, so many different accents in London as well. Exactly, yes, yes, yes. My accent is, um, I don't know if you've heard of it, but I have a little bit of Cockney in my accent, which is like the East End of London. Yes, I love it. Yeah, apples and pears, stairs, people don't even understand it. But so you have that, and then you have, of course, so many, so many different accents in England. Yeah, well, I have a Pilates instructor who is from Northern Ireland. Oh my God, I can't understand her. Today I was chatting with her and said, oh my God, I cannot understand you. It's so difficult. No, they don't say, oh my God. They go, oh, but Jesus, like that. Oh, but Jesus. Oh, but Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. And also I have my yoga instructor is from Scotland. Wow. Oh, yeah. But I love that. I love accents and I love to learn languages. So hopefully one day I will understand. You're doing very well. Thank you, thank you. And what I was saying that we were talking about the ingredients, right? Ingredients in your shampoos, all very— accents were brought because of the oat. Yes. Yeah, and it has a, what I say, aloe vera, coconut oil, rosehip oils, lots of beautiful ingredients, and they're The black oat extract, I love it because it makes the hair stronger and it's not scientifically proved, but for example, I know some men who are using the shampoo and they say they have more hair. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Scientists say, or all the people who claim, who know what the ingredients do, they say that they help hair growth. Okay, so you say really this shampoo is really good for menopausal women as well, that maybe, you know, their hair might be thinning? Absolutely, absolutely. And yes, because it will— and it doesn't take volume, it cleans really well. Yeah, because it doesn't have sulfates. Right, but it has a— I cannot remember the name now, but it's a scientific name. Well, it's like a, like a replacement of the sulfates. Silicon, silicon— I cannot remember the name. I should search it on the ingredients list. Silefin sulfonate, something like that. Silefin sulfonate. I don't know if I'm saying it properly, which replaces the sulfates and it's good. It doesn't damage the hair, right? Uh, but it cleans. Yeah, nice, nice, gently foam, produces a silky foam, which is nice because there are some shampoos that are for mostly for curly people that they don't have anything, so people feel it doesn't— they don't clean. Yeah, and they don't make any foam, so this cleans really well and also not take— do not take the, um, doesn't take the oils, the hydration of the hair. Okay, so it's really good because it volumizes and strengthens the hair. Yes. Okay, so what actual products have you got in your range? Well, at the moment I only have shampoo and conditioner. Okay, are you going to add to it? Yes, yes, I am working on something new, probably for— my plan was for January '24, but I don't think it will be ready. It would be— I think it would be ready by March, something like that. Yeah, yeah, I will look forward to, uh, oh, thank you. But for example, I use the shampoo and the conditioner. I wash my hair with the shampoo and then I condition And then when my hair is still wet, I put some conditioner in the hands and leave it in. Okay. I have the curls. I mean, I saw you, but I've seen your picture and I've seen you. You do have exceptionally wonderful hair. Oh, thank you very much. I am lucky. I say I'm lucky. And something funny is that I hated my hair when I was a teenager. Yeah, I bet. But you wanted it straight or something? Of course I wanted it straight. And yeah, straight and probably blonde. And later I hated my gray hair. Yeah, I was all the time in the mirror like looking where I have some growth to color it. So it did it— did it— well, how old was you when you started seeing gray hairs then? Quite young? I think in my 20s. I went, I am from a small city and then I did university in a medium-sized city and then I moved to Buenos Aires when I was 21. And Buenos Aires is a tough city, it's a massive city. Yeah. And I was doing a master in, a master of science in biometrics and I was very stressed, very difficult. And I think I all the gray hair started by then. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Stress, it wasn't hereditary? Yeah, it says that it's not proven that stress gives you gray hair, that stress is a determinant factor in gray hair, but I think it's a little linked. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, you hear about when people have had a really bad shock or a death or something, or, you know, and their hair goes gray overnight. You hear about things like that. So that must have come from somewhere. Well, there is a myth that Marie Antoinette went gray in one night. Yeah, I know someone that did as well. He fell off of a ladder and yeah, he went gray within, you know, I mean, men's hair is quite short anyway, but grows really quickly. Also, you see, for example, presidents of countries that they are very young when they assume, when they start the presidency, and then when they finish 4 years later, it looks like they got 20 years older. Yeah. But probably it's not only the gray hair, it's everything. Do you think, do you think then that grey hair does make you look older? At all, I absolutely disagree with that. Okay, yeah. Not at all, not at all, on the contrary, because I think that dark hair, very, very dark hair, like a hardness, harder than your features, yes, make your feature look harder, yeah, and I think that If you have grey, silver hair, it lights, it illuminates your face. Yeah, yeah, because it can, if you have really dark hair, especially if you do get a little bit older, it can make your skin look a bit sallow, can't it? A bit— Exactly, exactly. Light hair always illuminates. Yeah, yeah. And when people say, no, I don't want grey because I will look older, and I say, But if you don't go gray, you don't— you won't look younger. I am very straightforward, as you see. But it's not— or I say, for example, it's not gray hair which makes you look old, it's all your look. Yeah, it's your attitude as well, isn't it? Exactly, it's your attitude. Yeah, I mean, you know, I was talking to someone the other day on Facebook that I used to go to school with, and he said, oh, you have to remember, we're all pensioners now. And I thought, I don't think of myself as a pensioner. I don't know that word. You don't know that word? When you finish work, you know, if employed by a company and you've been working for a company for many years and you, you you finish work at the age of around 60, or it's now 65, you get company pension, which is money that you— Ah, okay, pension, you said? Pension, yeah. Ah, pensioners, yeah, I understood pinchoners, that's why I didn't understand. Ah, yeah, yeah, I understand. Yeah, so yeah, this, this guy said to me, on Facebook, you know, you have to remember we're all pensioners now. And I thought, I'm not— I don't think of myself as a pensioner. I'm not putting a label on myself because I'm a certain age, you know. I'm as old as I feel, or, you know, there's like you, you know, there's— so it's silly to say that, you know, life goes on and just make the most of it. And you can change things at whatever age you want to. You can change things and also, at least for me, something that is really important is to have a project, to have a purpose, to be creating something. Yes, I agree, I totally agree, because otherwise your mind goes to sleep and it's good to, you know, have something to focus on and work for. Exactly, to wake up and have something to solve, something to work for. Yeah, definitely. I totally agree. So I think that, um, I think women can do whatever they want and whenever they want. Um, yes, it is scary sometimes to, to make big changes, but you have to be brave and think to yourself, um, you know, I've got this one life and I'm gonna do what I want to do with it. So yeah, it's amazing that you did that. And I am very happy, very, very happy. And I think that everything, that is a circle that closes now because I did all my career in market research and consumer insights, helping big companies sell their products or shape their products. Then I did all the modeling and the influencer and I learned, I went gray, I learned about all the what going gray means for women especially. Yeah, I know this movement of going gray that there is. I, I learned all that because I am part of that. Sounds like you started it, Silvana. Well, there were not many women gray in 2015 when I went gray, and I have a lot of followers on Instagram that Or sometimes I, I read a post from another influencer or someone and say, I know, I was inspired by Silvina. Or for example, they write to me, Silvina, thank you very much because you inspired me to go gray. Yeah, because what I try to do mostly by that time is to show that you can change and that, for example, if you go gray, you won't look old, you won't look bad, you won't feel bad. Oh, there's so much we can talk about this. Yeah, you save a lot of time as well. Imagine if you had really dark hair and then you started to go gray, that, that was actually quite time-consuming and thinking about it all the time, and I've got to go to the hairdresser's. And so it's actually quite liberating, isn't it? Oh, it's a liberation, absolutely. Because before, if you have hair that grows like mine a lot, you have to schedule everything around when you will color your hair. For example, if I have a super important meeting, I have to color my hair 2 or 3 days before. I cannot go with 2 weeks of growing. Oh, I know, you're right. Oh no, no, it was horrible. Now it's like so liberating, so liberating, and it makes me— made me accept a lot of things because it's— I think it's like I don't have to hide anything. It's not against coloring. If you, if you do a coloring because you like a color, if you want to have your hair pink and you love it, it's fantastic. Yeah, but it's hiding something because we were hiding our gray hair. Yeah, yeah, I get that. I mean, you know, I, I actually highlight my hair, so I'm kind of like probably a mousy brown and I have blonde highlights put in it. And you're absolutely right, if I've got something big to go to, you know, like an event or, or something, I have to make sure that I get my hair done before I go because you worry about the roots. But I have to admit, I'm I'm not quite ready to do what you've done. I'm not brave enough at the moment, I don't think. So maybe you don't, you don't want to. You feel great doing the highlights and you like the highlights and it doesn't bother you. It's not— for me was like I felt like a slave of the coloring. Yeah, like it was something that I couldn't escape. And something that I didn't mention, but When I decided to go gray, yeah, I was working in that company, that agency, and we used to work from home some days. Yes, but that time, one morning, I was not supposed to have any meetings, so I said, I'm going to color my hair. I bring my phone, everything, and if I have to do, if I have to send some emails, I'll bring my laptop, whatever. And then I go home and I continue working. I am working while I am at the hairdresser. I have the computer, I do my coloring, and my boss called me, Silvina, can you jump on a call now, on a meeting? What, and you had your hair? Yes. Being colored? Yeah, I had all the color in my hair. How did you get away with that? What happened? No, I said that I couldn't, and I— because I couldn't put the camera there, anything. And I couldn't also take the call without them, without the video, right? Oh, it was bad. And I said, what am I doing? I am putting in risk my job for color and hair. This is ridiculous. Yeah, this is totally ridiculous because it's not necessary. I get that. So how did you get out of the call though? What did you say? Sorry, say that again? How did you get out of the call? No, I said I'm sorry, I am in another meeting with another, with a supplier, I don't know, yeah, something like that, but I probably, they believed me, but I was not happy with myself to do that, yeah, not to be available when I should have been available. Because of my coloring. Okay. Yeah, and another funny thing that I always tell is that once I was living in Buenos Aires and I was moving home and I had to pack everything from my home to the new home. Then the moving company came very early the next morning. So by 2 PM when I was started packing all my house, all my flats, I said, oh, I have to go to my hair. I will do it myself. I put the color and I started packing, packing, packing, packing, packing, packing. 2 AM in the morning on the next morning, I realized I was still packing. 12 hours packing. And I realized I have forgotten I had the color in my hair. Oh, so my hair was black. You're lucky it didn't fall out. Yeah, definitely, definitely was black. Oh my, my friends, you know, what happened to you? What happened? No, I 'Put color and I forgot.' So no, no, no, no. This is so liberating. But I say, I always say that people have to do it when they want, and if you want. If you don't want, if you like the highlights, it's fantastic. We have to be— we have to have different things. So if there's any ladies listening today that, you know, you— because, you know, my audience is ladies of a certain age and they're fed up with coloring their hair or they just, they like gray hair, they want gray hair, what would you say to them, you know, in order to take that, to make that move, what would you say? What do I say? I don't know anything, anyone who have regretted going gray, Okay, probably some women during the transition that they couldn't bear with the transition, they colored again, but nobody who did the transition regretted. Nobody. And I see, I have a very close dialogue, conversations with women who went gray or go gray. Through my Instagram, through people I meet. And I can risk saying that, I don't know, 90%, 70% of the women feel empowered after going gray. Okay. Because they feel— they, they feel bold, they feel brave, they feel they don't have to hide anything. And it's They're not conforming anymore. Exactly. You know that word? Conforming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And we have done a survey. I cannot help my consumer insight market research past. Yeah. So I conducted a survey with my customers, with my Silvina London gray hair care customers. Yeah. And one of the questions go, how 'How do you feel after going gray?' And the majority of the people feel more confident. Oh yeah, because they took that step and yeah, said, you know, 'I'm gonna do it.' Yeah, something that I think most of the women were doing for concealing the gray hair, the age, and once you say, no, I am like this, this is me, this is my age. This is so— that's so empowering. You know what, you're absolutely right. I mean, women have so many years they have to conform, don't they? Like, whether it's how slim they should be, or, you know, they wear makeup, and then— and people that don't wear makeup, they say, no, they don't look after themselves, or all of that. And it's the same thing with, with your hair, you know, if you go gray, you kind of— it was that, oh, you've let yourself go type thing. But in actual fact, we should be able to do whatever we want, shouldn't we? Yeah, and going gray should be something natural, something— it's life. Yes. Yeah. Oh, you don't, you don't get surprised when a, when a child, for example, grows 10 centimeters from one ear to the other. Yeah, it's the same with going gray. It's life, it's a part of life, the circle of life. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Well, um, it's been really lovely to talk to you, um, Silvina. And yeah, how amazing is it you've got silver in your name? Yeah, I was just saying that it's a circle that is, is, it's closing because I did the market research, the marketing thing, then the modeling, going gray and the modeling and knowing all the insights of the people who go gray, and now I am using all my marketing and my business knowledge to manage this brand, to manage this product. Well, I think it's, I mean, I know it's successful already, but I wish you every success and I hope— Oh, thank you very much. Still has a long— I have a long way to go. Oh no, I can see it on the shelves in like, you know, the big high street chemists and things. I'm sure that at some point, I mean, if that's what you want to do. You might want to keep it to yourself, but you know, to get it out there. I would love, but it's really difficult. It's really tough to get into the high street. It is nothing for a very small business yet. Yeah, but you know, you will get there. I think so. I am very, very, very confident. I believe 100% in the concept, in the idea. Yeah, me too. The product is great and I am using it myself every day and I love it. And most of the people who have used it give 5-star reviews and repeat the purchase. So I think it's good. Yes, me too, and I'm sure that it's going to become huge. So tell us again your website, Silvina, so that people can— Silvina, Silvina like my name, s-i-l-v-i-n-a-london.com. Okay, and what's your Instagram? My Instagram is Silvina Nether, that's my personal, and then is sylvinalondon.com. No, sorry, sylvina.london. Oh, sylvina.london. Okay. Yes, sylvina.london. Okay, well, it's been so nice talking to you, and it's been— oh, same for me. And you've been very— you're very inspirational. Oh, thank you very much. So, yeah, so, um, I'm gonna, uh, say goodbye now. So, uh, but thank you for coming on the show, and I wish you all the best. My pleasure, and thank you very, very much. Okay, all right, bye, Silvina. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thanks for joining me today, and I'll see you all the week after next.