Your Mind Matters – Jamal Miah, Teenage Healer

People try to put us down just because we get around. Things they do look awful cold. I hope I die before I get old. This is my generation. These are the lyrics by The Who called My Generation. It is still a cry for many young people. The cry that they are not understood. It's in these teenage years that our personality explodes, showing our true selves and breaking free from our parents. Our own personality at times fights to come through. In order for a child to become an adult, they have to move into society and become independent. That is why this transitional phase of every person's life needs guidance. By people who understand and can help the young person gain the skills and knowledge they need to keep safe, be creative, and become successful. But how does a young person connect with society if our immediate social group doesn't reflect the bigger society? Many teenagers follow their friends instead of what is right, and they fall into a gap. They struggle with impulses of doing what they want against what is right, against what their friends want them to do. This creates many poor decisions, and at times decisions which have long life or lifelong detrimental effects. This period of adolescence is so fast-paced that a young person needs guidance to develop moral, social, interpersonal, and supporting issues of self-expression. This in itself is a skill of any teacher or organization. Where they have to navigate a child's self-absorbed feelings and entice them into a world that in the long run will be more productive for them. My guest has set up an organization to do just that. Their mission is in their statement about the horrors of knife crime. The way knife crime can be tackled is by changing the environment of these young people. They need to be taught about life. They have court cases about violence. Music and film are two of the most important mediums to engage with young people. We give them some of what they want and then give them what they need. A cornerstone of our program is our belief in young people's natural creativity. We know young people get great pleasure from being involved in the arts, and so we encourage this at every age. Young people learn skills and gain immense self-esteem when given the opportunity. Art is an integral part of our program and we provide a wide array of materials for creating music and film. My guest is Jamal Meir. He has created an organization, OMG Education, to help young people basically not to die before they get old. Welcome, Jamal. Thank you very much for having me. Oh well, Jamal, I've known you for so long and I'm so pleased to be able to interview you today. So let's start off, but how did you create this organization? It's an amazing organization and you know as well as I do how important it is to do what you're doing at the moment. So how did you create it? Well, Maria, you know, um, I've been in the music industry for many, many years Hence the reason that's how we met, isn't it? It is, yeah. So, you know, it got to a stage in my life where I decided not to pursue a music career anymore, and I decided to go down a road of community and youth working. And in the last 15 years, I've been able to kind of learn, grow, develop develop in the community and, you know, giving back to the young people. Um, and then I realized that there was a mark— not a market, there was a niche for a program that didn't cater for young people that wanted to get into the music or film or live event, or should I just say the creative industry. That focused on the hardest to reach young people from disadvantaged backgrounds. So that was hence the reason why I thought, you know what, let me put my both of my passions together, which is music and film as well as, you know, youth development and put them together. And then I created OMG Education. Um, and it's not Oh My God, it's, oh, it's Outreach Mentoring and Guidance. Yeah, education. But it is— I've looked at your website, and please everybody look at the website. It's www.OMG organization— it's, um, education.co.uk. It's such an important site. I cannot tell you And you know this, Jamal, I know so many people that have tried to do what you've done. They try to help young people and they all— lots and lots of people fail. Now, I was involved with the Duke of Edinburgh Award and I know they did superb work, but you're there, you're in there, you're in the community and you're helping. What makes you so different and how have you become so successful where others haven't? Um, You might as well say I am my own client group. So what I mean by that is I'm a lived experience adult, um, you know, growing up from the age of, I don't know, 8, 9, 10, living in South London, you know, knowing what poverty is, knowing how we grew up to, you know, the opportunities that we had as young children in the '80s, growing up in the '90s, you know, seeing the evolution of the drug trade, seeing the evolution of knife crime, seeing the evolution of all of this is I been there, done it. So I understand what our young people today are going through. So hence the reason why our program is specifically tailored to these individuals, and that is what makes our program, um, very attractive to referral agencies like Youth Offending, Probation, you know, um, prisons, social services. But then in the format, because we know what young people want and what the music and the culture is, we're able to put that down as a medium or as a platform for young people, which is encouraging them to walk through our doors, which is enabling our— myself and other youth workers within our organization to do the fundamental personal social development work with each individual learner, whether that takes one day or whether it takes a year to develop, grow a young person. That is our model and that's how we work. And because we are a nonprofit organization, a lot of what we do is in our mission statement. What we do, every young life matters, and that's how we work and that's how we have been able to be successful and sustainable because a young person doesn't walk through our doors and see it as, oh, they're just another college, or oh, they're just another provision, or they just want me to fill in these forms, give them my ID, and they're not really gonna give me what's on the tin. Um, so that's the reason why we do what we say, even if it means us going above and beyond what is necessary to do. Hence the reason why, you know, I'll give you an example. A young person, you know, was going through home issues, mental health issues. Parents didn't want them in the house anymore. He ran away from home. We went above and beyond tracking down the young person through friends and peers, found the young person, brought him back to our centre, you know, then mediated the situation with parents. Parents didn't want him. He ran away again. You know, went to the police. We, you know, done the mediation with the police liaison, social services. We ended up getting that young person into social service as a looked-after child because he's only 16, helping supporting them through that transition, get them into a care hostel, independent living, and then we still supported that learner through that process whilst they were still going through the transition of leaving the gang life behind, because that was one of their biggest problems and why they kept running away from home. So that was weeks and hours of work that we had to do with one individual learner to change that life around, and that young person saw it, appreciated it, and now you know, we're able to kind of do this kind of work more and more frequently, uh, and that is what for me is more rewarding than a big paycheck at the end of it. Yeah, that's incredible work because as you say, it's the follow-through, and often people don't build up enough of a relationship to have the follow-through. So can I, before we go into more details about all the work you do, which I know how amazing it is, um, can Where did you start? What was your background, Jamal? Um, you know what, Maria, you're the first person that I'm actually gonna speak to regarding myself because I've been, I've been like a closed book, you know. So I came to this country when I was, I don't know, I think about 4 years old, and I moved to an area called Bermondsey in South London. Which at that time in the early '80s, it was a very racist area. So I grew up around a lot of racism for myself, which then didn't transition well when I went into school. What is your— where do your parents— where did you come from? Uh, my— both my parents are from Bangladesh. Aha, okay. Um, so obviously Bangladesh is a third world country, you know, in the '80s then it was very developing country. Um, so my parents came here for a better life for myself and my brothers and sisters. Um, but then when I did go to school, I was always an outsider because I didn't fit in. Hence the reason why I decided to find my own friends, of my own kind, should I say, or should I say people that actually respected or understood where I was coming from. So this is where I grew up, in an area called Peckham in South London. Where again on the council estate where a lot of the children growing up were like me from Black ethnic minority backgrounds, families that had immigrated into the country for a better life. However, society hadn't given them the opportunity to live a good life because, you know, benefits, low-wage working, not having much opportunities, meaning not being able to provide well enough for the children and stuff as well. So that was the era of the early '80s that I kind of grew up in. And, um, can I ask you, what did your father— did he manage to get work? And what did your mother do? And how did you cope on a day-to-day basis? Um, so my dad was, um, a factory worker. Um, uh, they called them pressers, so he was the guy that would work in the clothing factory that would press and iron the clothes at the end. Um, and my mother was, um, a tailor. Oh, amazing. So, you know, it kind of worked well. Um, but again, long, long hours, and, you know, I would never— I wouldn't really see my dad because he was always working. Mum was at home, you know, you know, holding down the family, the children, school runs, dinner, like it was. Um, and then obviously we were growing up in an area where you know, media, culture, fashion started to influence what we as children wanted, you know. Um, we would go to secondary school in trainers or clothes from the local market. Right, where our friends would, um, be wearing Nike, Adidas, you know, nice clothes, nice trainers and stuff as well, um, which made us want to have that ourselves. Yeah. And where our parents couldn't provide that for us, I was one of the type of person that would go out and get it myself. And how old were you when you started doing that, going out for yourself? About 11, 12. Yeah, it's an interesting time, isn't it? You may not know, I come from Polish refugees, so I was brought up on a council estate, as you can tell by my accent. I always say that, but, you know, and I know what it's like, you know, sort of, you came from a very different path, but however, when you've got families, and mine ended up working in factories. I know what that's like. And you go to school with kids who have got stuff and you haven't. And I know what it means to have fashion, to have the right trainers, just to look good on the outside is a great feeling for a young person. And as you say, as an 11-year-old, you start noticing and you get developed this stuff inside you that makes you want to go out and do something. Was that the same for all your family, or did you stand out even in your family? Um, well, because I come from a, I don't know, Bangladeshi family, so, you know, the stigma that has on Indian, Asian, Pakistani family is, you know, they're well off, they stick together, they go to work, they come home, they earn, they eat, they survive, um, they go to college, the university, you become doctors and lawyers and, you know, uh, lots of money, which isn't the case in reality. You know, we still have poverty and living on the, on, on the breadline, you know, um, where I was the eldest out of my siblings, so, you know, I was the type of person that would go out and do what was necessary for myself, which is kind of hard to kind of explain because there's so much that has happened in that period of time from that age to me turning 16, you know. That was like kind of a childhood, but adult childhood. Yeah, because you went out, I take it. You're the eldest, you had all these young children. Were you expected to look after your young brothers and sisters? Do you have brothers and sisters, or is it young, just brothers? No, because at that age you're expected to kind of be the role model. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, go to school, come home, eat, sleep, go back to school, and live your routine life. So do you feel that you had sort of two personalities happening, one for inside the home, one for outside the home? Oh yeah, definitely. We had to, because this is where it came down. Ah, it's not just me. A lot of people have this, you know, at home in front of their parents, they're angels, good as gold, but when they go to school or when they're outside, they're completely different. Um, and this was the, this was the thing about me is I didn't hide behind my personality. The way that I am outside is the way that I was at home. Hence the reason why I left home at the age of 15. My dad didn't, couldn't take it anymore and didn't want me around and just said, you know what, you can't be here anymore. And me being a stubborn child took that to heart and ran away from home. And that was it. I was living on the streets, I was living in parks, I was, you know, sleeping nights in the local mosque, you know. I was, you know, out and about defending for myself from the age of 15. How did you cope with that? I mean, you must have— so really from the age of 11, this is what I'm talking about, the teenage world where you suddenly split off You're no longer a child, you come into the adult life, but you're not quite an adult either, and you've got your own personality and you've got to make your way in the world. Yeah. How did you do that before you left home, and then how did you do that after you left home? Well, because I was, I was the eldest in my house, my dad couldn't read or write. Okay. Um, English. Neither could my mum. So from a young age, my mom and dad would put the pressure on me to be the academic one. Yeah, so I, I had, I had kind of advanced very quickly at a young age because I would, I, I would have to read all the letters, the council tax letters, the benefit forms. I would be the one that filled in the forms for passport, all the immigration letters on behalf of my mom and dad because I learned a little bit of English. And maths, you know, so I was able to do this. So this is what hence got me to a stage where I was a little bit more independent than my friends at a young age. Yeah, you know what, I need to go and do what I need to do. But the biggest thing was I wanted more than what I had. Yeah, you know, at that particular time, which made me go out and seek a family that could provide it for me. And that family was peers, friends, elders, or olders in the local area that became my family, you know, which to an outsider, a middle class, upper class person, they automatically class that as a gang. Okay. But in my eyes, we were a family. And what did that mean? Were there rules? What were the rules? Were there rules? Who set the rules? What happened if you broke them? Well, obviously there was always consequences, yeah, um, but we were more— I was more the young person, the young kid that was always learning on how to make money and always learning about how the structure of the organizational dealings were happening on a day-to-day basis. So from the age of 16, I've never had to worry financially about anything. Okay. Um, and you know, you're always working together as a family unit, so there was always the hierarchy of the elder that was the, you know, the person that was orchestrating, you know, always leading on certain things. And we were the young ones that were either kind of the young soldiers that we would say that would kind of execute whatever the idea was. Yeah, so obviously there was that kind of chain of command, there was that, all of that going on. But then again, it was the whole thing of the clique was money-making machine where you have other different kind of people. They were kind of more your, what would you say, your muggers, your robbers. Um, you know, they're the ones that— there was another crew, they would go out and they would plan robberies, bank robberies, they would plan that. You know, that was their earning, that's how they would earn their money, you know. Then you had other kind of groups that were kind of, you know, your scammers, you know, bank scam, fraud, you know, as a collective that was their way of making money, you know. So there were loads of different gangs, loads of different areas, loads of different people doing loads of different things. But then we never crossed over and done multiple things because that's where obviously gang warfare starts. Okay, so we would never get ourselves into that. We were always focused about what we knew. This was our line of business, this is what we did, and this is how we're going to continue doing it. You know, it's interesting, Jamal, because when I was running Jongleurs, in our, uh, box office, booking office, when people used to take calls A couple of the guys eventually got into a gang that worked for us, and one of them one day came in with a stab. You know, he'd been stabbed in the stomach, you know, and he was bandaged up. And there was a part of him obviously that was in pain, but a part of him that was quite proud of it as well. He'd got through it, that moment, you know. Do you recognize that? As being part of who young people are. Yeah, because there's, um, as young people, you know, I see it every day right now. Um, you know, I see young people walking around with knives, you know. I've got young people that come into my premises with knives, you know. Um, and for them it's a, um, They carry it for self-protection but also confidence, because over the last 10 years it's been publicized that this is the only way that they can survive, you know, because of what we would call area postcodes or postcode warfare, you know, young people not being able to go to different areas, uh, you know. So there's this big kind of defense mechanism, you know, and a young person has a defense mechanism and If you try to, um, you know, break that defense mechanism, that's where problems start happening if you do it in the wrong way, you know. And that's why we try to do it mentoring, mentor that young person to break down that defense mechanism in order for us to be let in to that young person's mind and soul for us to kind of now channel the vision and channel the direction of choice for that learner to a positive future. Uh, and I know that you are just an amazing person because in all the psychology books that everybody reads— and I've read loads, and as you know, I'm a practicing psychotherapist as well, running a business It's in the action that you take that you've got to— it's— people recognize you. They know whether you can actually help them navigate into a better world. So you are what's called the wounded healer. You've come from your own wounds and you're now healing others. But you've got this dynamic, amazing personality, because as I say, I've known you for a long while now, and you make things happen. And you've not had a leg up, you've not had money. Given to you. Um, other people, you know, and good luck to them, as they say, come into the world and they do have help. They do have parents that pay for their recording company or things, and that's, that's their way and that works for them. But you've never had any of that, and yet you've made amazing things happen. And now you have decided to move from music, but you're using music as a therapy in itself to help to navigate, to mentor people. Yeah, where do you get that from, Jamal? Where's that drive come from in you? Um, okay, so this drive is again another life journey for me. So as you know, I've been in the music for a very long time. So, you know, from 2001, I set up a, a record label, Darkness Records. I set up a recording studio. I had artists that were signed to me. And at the age of 21, at that time, I was making crazy money. I was just making crazy money and it was just ridiculous. I was like king of the world. I was so young, rich, but then I was so dumb because I wasn't using it wisely because I wasn't adult enough or mature enough. To run a successful company in that way at that particular time, you know. So I lost it all, okay. Um, not— I lost over like a 5, 10 year period, uh, because I hadn't been taught or I hadn't learned the right way about running a business or whichever it might be, you know. Um, So that was errors and mistakes that I had made in the music industry. Okay, now I also was going through a personal depression in my life at that particular time of 24, when I was about 25, um, which led me to a very dark place in my life, you know. And I've seen certain people go into a dark hole within their life and not ever be able to get out of that dark hole, you know. Um, and I managed to get out of this dark hole, um, because I joined the youth program like OMG Education back then, which was called, uh, Motivate, which was, I think, funded by Rally International. Oh yeah, so, you know, they take people away on expeditions and stuff as well. Yeah, I remember. So I went on an expedition to Nicaragua and Costa Rica, which for me was a 3-month therapeutic expedition where I got to work with some of the community, you know, learning about, you know, building work and doing a lot of stuff in the community, which made me see my potential as a person, that I have actually got a good heart and I actually am somebody that cares and wants to do something positive and constructive for others, you know, which led to me coming back into the UK, um, and step away from the music career But then I learned that money was not everything. So everything that my brain had been taught from the age of 11, like, you need to have money, you need to have a nice car, you need to have a nice house, you need to have, um, you know, the top designer clothes and the top designer shoes, you know, you need to have, you know, the best Rolex on your wrist, you need to have you know, chains and medallions and stuff as well became irrelevant to me, you know. And then I just became the person of the community to help people and help young people and help, which for me, I felt a sense of joy and a buzz that I never had before when I was doing that. And I thought, okay, let me let me kind of do this more. And as I've done it more, I became more and more, um, to do more and more for the community. Hence the reason why I worked very, very hard. I earned myself a job, I started saving up my money, um, and, you know, 5 years ago I decided to invest every single penny that I had um, into setting up OMG Education, you know, um, as a youth development organization working in the community. And at that particular time, and even now, I don't really care, and I didn't really care if I was making any money, you know, um, hence the reason why I set it up as a community interest company, not-for-profit, you know. As long as, you know, eventually I can get myself a salary to, you know, to live. So hence the reason why I started offering my mentoring service to secondary schools for free, you know. I started offering my mentoring services to alternative education provisions for free, which were, you know, stuff around knife crime, personal social development for young people, conflict resolution, you know, these are all kind of needed workshops that secondary schools were not delivering to their teenagers. So I was going into schools and I was delivering this for free, and then delivering it for free, you know, led to a funding organization that said, hey Jamal, we can get you X amount of money if you can convert the young people that you have into data for us. Meaning I sign up the young people onto my program through their funding program, you know. Um, and then it was more of a, okay, the OMG Education is now a funded program, um, and through that we were making good amount of money, and the profits we always injected it back into young people. So, you know, we provide young people with lunches, free lunch, free breakfast. We provide young people with travel expenses. We, you know, take young people out on day trips and cinemas and, you know, museums. You know, we buy young people clothing for their, um, you know, job interviews and stuff as well. Nobody gives us money for any of this. We do that ourselves, you know. So, uh, Jamal, coming back to you, the inspiration you've had, the inspiration you give, where does that come from? Is there someone in your background, in your genealogy, in your family constellation that had that about them, or is it especially for you? Are you very different from everybody else? That's a kind of a difficult one because I never— I'm like kind of the outcast in my family. Are you still an outcast? Do you still communicate with them or no? Um, uh, relationship has got a lot better because I've grown up and, you know, they can accept me for who I am now, right? Um, so I would say, you know, I really— no, growing up, for me, I've seen people like, um, that were inspiring to me were people like Richard Branson, you know, the people that were, um, you know, Alan Sugars you know, these were kind of, um, legendary entrepreneurs that were kind of— I would always read about, you know, um, you know, in America you had people like Puff Daddy, you had people like, uh, Master P that were in the urban music scene that, you know, done lots of stuff for their community and stuff as well. So again, it goes back to A time when I was actually in jail, um, and sitting in jail, we were allowed magazines to read, um, and my cellmate, he was reading, um, articles on, um, at that time, of a rap mogul called Master P. Um, in The Source magazine, um, and then when I was reading the journey that Master P had gone through and then also reading the journey of the biography of, you know, Richard Branson, which kind of to me I said, wow, these guys literally come from nothing. And I am also from nothing, you know. Um, what could I do that could possibly contribute towards, um, a better future, one for myself but also helping and changing the community? And that for me I think has always been in, in me, a good heart. Yeah, you know, it's either you've got a good heart or you haven't. And it's all it is, is just takes something for you to find your good heart. And until you've actually been through something or done something for you to acknowledge yourself, reflect on yourself, and to know that, okay, this is me and this is how I am and this is the direction I want to go. That's when you know your pure intentions. And I think that's where I found my pure intentions, because even in the music industry, I was always the one that was helping with youngsters and their recording studio time, you know, helping them with their career and not realizing that I'm actually helping. Yeah, you just did it. I could see that when we worked together, you know. Uh, so coming back, because you have such an amazing, fascinating story, and I'm so pleased that you're talking to me today about this, but what advice— before I go into the detail of the work you do do and how you really chip away, and I don't mean it's hard, you do it naturally, you've got very engaging personality. So how— what can parents do to help their kids now? What do they do that's a mistake that if they listen to you they could go, oh gosh, if I only knew that? Okay, so this is, uh, I'm gonna be as honest as I can with this question, right? Um, I'm I do a lot of home visits, um, so do a lot of my staff members do home visits to a lot of our learners that are disengaging. So if you've got a young person that's been engaging, he's come to the studio, you know, he's done his English, his maths, or she's been doing vocal lessons, or she's been doing acting lessons, and, you know, she's been motivated and up and all of a sudden we don't see them, then obviously it raises alarm bells to us, like, okay, where's this person? So we would go and do home visits. Now, one of the things that we see is in this demographic of young people, you know, parents do need to be a lot more supportive in the growth and development of their child. So I would go to someone's house and the parents would not care if their child is at college learning, outside, inside, or out. They would not— there's no acknowledgement. Oh yeah, I don't know where they are. All right, cool, um, I'll give them the message and hopefully they'll get back to you. That's sometimes the attitude that we have. Then we have, then we have parents that are— and it's sad to see and say that there are parents that are drug addicts and alcoholics, um, and you can see that their kids are affected by it. You know, because when they walk into the centre, you can smell the dampness of the heroin on the clothing that the young person will see. You know, you can smell it on them, and it's just like, okay. And they're embarrassed or ashamed to talk about their parents, even in a one-to-one or even in the mentoring session. They're ashamed to talk about their parents. So that has a mental effect on that young person and their growth and development and choices that they might make. Um, and then we have, you know, parents that are very, very supportive and engaging, right, that are too involved or want to be too involved in their child's life that makes that child turn around and say, or become rebellious, should I say. Yeah, they need to find their own space, don't they? They need to find themselves in that, right? So I'll give you an example of my son. Um, so I've— my son has grown up with me in his life but not living with me all his life. So I've been that father figure to him. He knows when he needs his dad, his dad is there for him no matter what. Okay, I see my son, he comes to me, we call, we talk, everything goes. And throughout his life, I've given him the freedom to do what he wants to do within reason. Yeah, how old is he? He's 20 years old. He's 20, okay. Yeah, so, you know, but because I've given him the freedom and choice to do what he wants, he's taking it on his own shoulders to obviously finish school, you know, go to college, go to university, and, you know, now he's working and stuff as well. But again, there were a time where I was that hated parent because I'm forcing him to do this course, or I'm telling him to go to college, or I'm waking him up in the morning. Yeah, that hated parent. I know that, I know that face. So then I thought to myself, okay, what am I doing wrong here? Yeah. And I was like, I ain't doing anything wrong, I'm a parent. Exactly. But then it goes back to me when I speak to parents. Some parents, um, are not, um, involved in their child's life. Some people are too involved in their child's life. Yeah. And then you have, um, some parents that are not in their child's life. So that— yeah, so then, you know, they're looked after by like social services or grandmother or whichever they're looked after. Um, so we as an organization, what we do is we try to bridge that gap together. Okay, and so let's talk about that. How do you do that? So you— where do you get your children from? How do they get to you? So they get to me from A young person might be in the criminal justice system. Okay, so they might be attached to a Youth Offending Order, or they might be on probation, or they might be released from prison. So these officers will always make referrals to us because, again, as an organization, we still need to follow protocols of safeguarding and You know, we still need to follow the protocols of policies and procedures of working with young learners and adults because they're still children and adults, you know. So we have to do things like risk assessments and stuff as well to acknowledge if we can have these two learners in the building at the same time because the last thing we want is gang warfare in our building. So they get referred to us. Then we also have people that are referred to us from social services, mental health services, care services, leaving care services, independent living services. So this is where we will get referrals from them, and we will kind of get background information on each of the learners, which we will have parent contact or guardian contact. And part of our induction process is to also get to know the parent and guardian of that learner because we feel as joint venture of making sure one, OMG Education and his mentors, um, are doing the best they can for that learner. So what we do is we will have the practitioners, every single practitioner that is involved in that young person's life at that particular time and also engage with the parents and guardians also, and keep a three-way triangle of communication to make sure that everyone is involved and everyone is aware of what that young person's journey is and where they want to go and what they want to be doing. But then also informing them of areas of development that young person needs. However, we still do have a level of confidentiality which we keep with the young person, so we wouldn't disclose something the young person tells us in confidence. And that's one of the good things, the young people trust us. So, you know, unless he's going to tell me, oh, you know what, Jamal, I'm going to go down the road and I'm going to stab that person then obviously, no, you just told me something that I've got to stop you from doing, and I've got to talk to people, you know. So how do you do the— you've got the trust, and that comes from being who you are and the other people that you choose to work with you. And children, what do they learn when they come to you? Did they learn the basic skills, maths, English, and also the arts? So do you entice them in, so to speak, encourage them to come in through the arts? So you teach them the arts as well as the basic learning? So we encourage young people to come in because we've got like multiple recording studios as well as media suites as well. So we give young people opportunity to, you know, record their own music, you know, make their own production, write their own songs in their own— so music is a way, is a gateway that we use for young people to come in through our doors, okay. So once they're— it's like giving young person free studio time, you know, they're like, wow, this is worth like £350 and you're giving me studio time? Yeah, come on. So through that engagement, our mentors are able to kind of now start doing personal social development with that learner. So things like motivation, confidence, self-esteem, you know, start looking at things of employability skills, training needs and stuff as well. So once we're doing that, we're identifying the young person. Okay, you need to redo your GCSEs, or you need to redo your English and maths, and we're going to provide that. So we've got our English teachers, we've got our math teachers to provide the young person with that. We will do their qualification outcomes, you know, sit their exams with them, but then also we will give them a qualification in music, business administration, or business enterprise. So we— there's so many different programs that young person can engage in, but for us that is secondary. The first thing is the personal social development of each and every learner. So we, we do something which is called the individual learning plan, which is individually tailored, customized, one-to-one work with each individual, because no one is going to have the same amount or the same work that needs to be done with them. And this is so important, isn't it, for these children, these young people? How do you reconcile that and with schools and everything? Because not every school can provide that individual learning, or can they? No, schools can't provide that. Um, and there was a time where we had— when we were part of the EU, the EU gave us a lot of money um, it's called the European Social Fund, which gave us a lot of money to go into secondary schools to deliver exactly what we're doing with personal social development mentoring to prevent young people from becoming permanently excluded, which was a free service from the school because the European Social Fund funded it, which the schools loved it. Now it's not there schools can't afford to pay for that service anymore. And did children benefit from it? Did it work inside schools? Oh yeah. So I'll give you an example, our stats. So in 2020, we worked with 80— and then we worked with, uh, 8 secondary schools. And with 8 secondary schools, we worked with 180 learners throughout the 8 secondary schools, and the target was— is to prevent the young people from being excluded. And we— our outcome after 12 months was, um, 165 learners were still engaged in education and completing all their GCSEs. Wow. So that is a stat within itself. We lost 15 learners, which, you know, young people have personal circumstances. They move, they change houses, social services move them on to a different area, they still get caught up in gang warfare. So there is, you know, there's some young people that you're just not going to be able to do anything for. And how do you manage all your staff and the programs to go into these schools? Um, so we have, uh, well, you know, I have a staff team of 18 staff members at the moment, you know. So we've got outreach workers, mentors, English teachers, math teachers, creative arts and music teachers. We have a head of curriculum. And, um, so we have to always be, um, very mindful of the level of education we give to our learners. So one of the prime examples might be is you can't do an A-level qualification with our client group because they're never going to engage in it. We have to go back to basics and deliver qualifications that is suited to our client group. Hence the reason why we would rather do functional skills English and maths than do GCSEs English and maths. Because that's more easier for the young person to achieve. We would rather do a Level 1 music tech qualification than do a BTEC Level 2 or Level 3 in music because it's just too complicated and the young person won't engage. It's more vocational qualifications we would deliver to our young people because it's more achievable. And when a young person walks away and they've got a certificate in their hand, they're looking at you like 'Wow, I've actually got a certificate.' Yeah, I know. So actually they've, they've achieved something themselves, although you've guided them towards that. Yeah. And then the other thing is obviously is the progression. So this is where we would kind of work with a lot of apprenticeship programs. We work closely with a lot of, you know, record labels. We work closely with a lot of people in the music industry, um, because the stigma is this A lot of young people want to get into the industry. They don't know about the hundreds of jobs that are available in the music industry because they're not taught that, okay? And that's what we teach them. You know, you can be an accountant, you can be a PR, you can be, you know, working in advertising and marketing, you know, you can be a lawyer, you can all of this in the music and entertainment industry. However, young people even at school are not taught this, you know. So we ask them for work placements and working opportunities. So someone like, you know, Sony, you know, they might take on a learner for 2 weeks in their offices or with one of their sister companies, and the young person person might go and do 2 weeks work experience in the reception area, you know, and that's solely because of the trust that they have with OMG Education. Exactly. If we put up— if we nominate a learner to do this kind of work experience, we've all— that means we've done our legwork and development work with this learner for the last 3 to 6 months. So we know now this young person is ready to take that next step. But also you've built up trust with the record labels, and not only that, you as a person they trust. Yes, um, because we also want to be also encouraging now record labels, recording studios, publishing houses that not to turn away our client group. Because they have programs in place that is not suited for our client group, you know. So if a young person wants to do an apprenticeship in, I don't know, EMI, you know, they're not gonna— our client never be able to do it because they have to be a Level 3 student with GCSEs, A to C grades, and also go through their program before they do it. So what are we saying to this music industry? We're saying, look, let us create apprenticeship opportunities for our client group for you guys to take on once you see the development and change in the learner. Hence the reason why OMG Education focuses on the music industry, because be able to not only show the local authority, the community, the police, justice system that we're changing lives, but we also want to show the music industry and the film industry that these young people are now ready to come in through your doors, you know. So, so there's a fine balance now on how we kind of do it. It's a challenge, but it's a very big challenge that we're facing, um, because I say this to a lot of record labels and I say this to her, is when you see one of my client groups, yeah, a young person on YouTube and they've got 1.2, 2 million, 3 million views on the song that they just created in their bedroom and on YouTube, yeah, you are very fast to go and hunt down this, look, this kid, right, find out who he is, where he's from, and you're very fast to offer him £10,000 to £50,000, right, to sign him a 2-single deal or 3-single deal. Yeah, because you want to make money off of him because he's created a buzz for himself. However, you're not willing to have the same person work for you in your office. And you persuade them? Well, this is, this is what, this is the, this is our development as an organization and our development of awareness that we're trying to do within the music and film industry is we're saying stop signing these young people for £50,000 to £100,000, offer these young people jobs within your company. Yeah, you know, and give them an opportunity that way. Give them opportunities rather than setting them up to fail because they take the money, they then do— there's a lot of pressure. We are going to have to stop our conversation shortly because the program is about to end, but Jamal, is there anything you want to say just to finish up? Um, no, I'm just very thankful for you allowing me me to kind of speak. And like I said, Maria, you're the first person that's actually got me on a talk show, or, you know, got me talking about myself. And, um, but obviously I would like your listeners to kind of also have the opportunity to kind of, you know, if they want to help support in any way, you know, whether it's giving back their time, whether it's helping towards, you know, gifting kind, you know, finances, whichever it is, to please get in touch because every little helps. And it does. And we could do with as much help and support as we can because living in this climate that we're in right now, we're totally independent. So we're not governed by the local authority or the local government, and we're not funded by anybody. And the reason why it's even more difficult for us to stay alive and keep on our feet and continue doing what we're doing for our young people. So, um, just to remind us of your, your website is www.ongeducation.co.uk. I'm Dr. Maria Kempinska. This is Jamal Mir. You're not only a friend You're an amazing person, and I know you're going to change many, many people's lives. Thank you so much for engaging in Your Minds Matter. Thank you very much. I'll speak to you soon, Muriel.