Your Mind Matters – Mariette Richardson & Paul Metcalfe, The Voice As The Veil Of The Mind

I have a Dream was the speech made by Dr. Martin Luther King in August 1963 as a part of a civil rights rally. He continued that one day every valley shall be engulfed, every hill shall be exalted, and finally added that the heat of oppression will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. His voice reverberated deep from his soul and rich with his baritone resonance. And we remember Churchill's speech. We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them on the landing grounds. This galvanized the despondent country into action and the belief that victory was possible. Whereas Elizabeth I at Tilbury began with my loving people and ended with we shall shortly have famous victory over those enemies of my God and my kingdom of my people, her powerful and moving call to action speech was hailed as the cause of the success against the Spanish Armada. Yet today we have audio, TV and many vocal aids, one of which captured Queen Elizabeth II's profound speech at the Guildhall, which she called her annus horribilis, saying, in 1992 is not a year on which I shall look back with undiluted pleasure. But what if each of the speakers spoke too quickly or stumbled over their words, or could not pronounce their words? Would these speeches have been remembered? My name is Dr. Maria Kempinska and today I'm delighted to have my guests Mariette Richardson and Paul Metcalfe to discuss the Voice. This is yous Mind Matters and the theme is the Voice as a Veil of the Mind. Firstly, let me introduce and welcome Mariette Richardson, whose book Free the Hidden Speaker Inside is a Times Business book finalist and voice coach. And Paul Metcalfe is a voiceover artist, actor and presenter who makes a living through his voice and vocal clarity enthusiastic performances. So firstly, can I welcome you, Mariette and I have read your book which gives hints and tips for everyone on how to make a speech. But I don't want to dive deep into your book. I'd rather you did that. So can you give us an overview of your best selling book? Maria, It's a pleasure and a privilege to be here. I've decided on the title with my publisher Taryn Johnston from FCN Publishing and we really brainstormed about the title and eventually came up with Free the Hidden Speaker Inside. In my work as a performance coach, I always have to discover what what is it that's holding that person back? Why is it that we can't just speak up freely with confidence? Most of us can't. And what is it that has caused this person to be Nervous. That is why we call it free. The hidden Speaker Inside and the subtitle is how your voice can make you money and give you the life you desire. Well, I think that's exactly, exactly what Paul does. It is his voice that gives him money and the life he desires. And when we get back on track, it will be even more so. So, Paul Metcalf, thank you so much. You're incredibly busy and much in demand, and thank you for joining me today. Can you give us some of your background and what led you to the point of success you're at now? Thank you, Maria. I don't know about the voice, you know, the life I require. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. But, yeah, no, I just think growing up at school, I grew up in the Northeast, so I had a northern sort of accent. And it was always that thing with tv. Everybody had a different, you know, nobody had regional accents. Regional accents weren't a thing. And I, you know, I wasn't particularly good at school. You know, I was bottom in maths and I liked English, I like drama. I liked all those things. And unfortunately, if you're not education at school, they don't really push you. They don't really, you know, encourage you in that way. You're almost, you know, left behind. And I often thought, you know, what am I going to do with my life? You know, And I used to get told off all the time for talking and being a cheeky one, but. And now I make a living out of talking. Yeah. So, you know, doing voiceovers and live events and, you know, presenting and radio and tv, I absolutely love it. And I did sort of get to a point where living in London, if you have a sort of northern accent, it's, you know, the voice I have is quite neutral. I think so. But I can put accents on. I can do lots of different things with my voice. And I just almost took it for granted. I would just do what I do. And it wasn't until people started saying, you're really good at what you do, you know, And I just sort of think, no, it's just what I do. So it's that I can understand. It'll be interesting to talk in this hour that you know about how people can just think they've got pretty much an ordinary voice, but don't realize how powerful that voice is. And can I just ask you, at what point, what was the turning point where you thought, right, I'm going to do this? Was it somebody saying, paul, you're amazing, because you do have that slight northern twang, which is lovely because it does stand out. But also you have such a clear, vibrant voice. At what point did you say, right, I'm going to sort of dive in and make this into my career? I think it was probably radio, so it's, it's nice to be back doing radio. I started in hospital radio many, many years ago, Radio Tyneside in Newcastle. And I was one of the youngest presenters. I wrote in and I said I wanted to be a presenter, lied about my age, got in there, they found out that I was too young, but, you know, they said I had a good voice. And I read the news for a while and that was, that was really good fun. And I just thought, okay, maybe there's something to this. While everybody was out playing football or, you know, as I say, getting their head down with their studies, it was never something that I was really I could engage with. Whereas my voice and what I do, doing silly voices as a kid, you know, doing, you know, mimicking your teachers, I suppose that was one of the things you can mimic your teacher, you were very popular, so. So I can pretty much do all the teachers voices. And again, I take that for granted. I can just hear a voice or an accent and just kind of absorb it and then be able to use it. And I just think, oh, can everybody do that? And maybe they can't. I just, you know, I do what I do. And Mariette, your voice, which is lovely, is totally different. Of course, it's not just a feminine voice, but you have a softness, it's like a cushion. So how did you first get into this side of your life, this work? How did you recognize how powerful the voice was? Maria? Like Paul, I started off as a child doing the normal speech and drama classes when I was really five years old. But Paul, I must say something to you first. You know, you example of what they say is if you really love what you're doing, you won't work another day in your life. It won't be work, it will be pleasure. It is all fun and pleasure because I also absolutely love what I'm doing. I was fortunate enough that my dad has always been a toastmaster. And when we were still very small, he used to put us on a chair or a table and say to us, make a speech. To speak from an early age on, and that is what parents should really do, is encourage their kids to speak in this safe environment of their own homes where they can learn to be confident speakers. I always recommend that that's Brilliant. Do you know, and that's so interesting because in the Victorian times, as people grew up, and particularly children, they were told to be seen but not heard. And I wonder now, obviously that's not the case, but I wonder if that's still in our psyche, that. That sort of, oh, I mustn't be heard. And I must say, from my point of view, and I've dealt with this as a therapist with a number of people who come from different backgrounds, that sometimes if, when we were walking down the road, my father spoke Polish or my parents spoke Polish and we were speaking Polish on the street, we became very shy, you know, and we didn't want attention. You know, we were at the time when some kids would throw stones at us. But I tend to think you. Yes, everybody has a little bit of racism. Everybody has something that goes on in their lives that doesn't make them feel comfortable. But I do think that because I spoke Polish at home and English at school, by the time I got onto stage, it was like, oh, I became so nervous. So I've had to work on that. And that comes from also. Exactly. To some extent, what you're saying that parents could do was never done because my parents only spoke Polish. So that's very interesting. Yeah. I'm sure if I went to a Polish school, it might be quite different. But I do believe you're absolutely right if parents can encourage you to speak without putting the burden of speaking on your shoulders. So, Paul, were you encouraged at home? Yeah, I think I was, yeah. I mean, I've always had quite a creative family. My dad was a. Was a musician and, you know, so he was, you know, really. But he wasn't there a lot. He worked in Saudi Arabia. So I was just my mum and. Excuse me. And. Yeah, so. But, yeah, she encouraged me, but I think it was more, you know, that realizing that I had to do it myself, you know, I think I wasn't put on a table and told to perform. I was more a show. Yeah, I was known as a bit of a show off. I mean, my dad plays the old cine videos, you know, films that from the past, when I was a kid. And I'm just shocked at how, you know, I'd barge into a room with a flashing bow tie and, you know, just take over and start performing and singing and just annoying everybody. So I was just a really annoying child, I think. But you were great. It must have been fun. I think so. But at the time, they didn't really know what to do. I kind of Called myself the Billy Elliot of the Northeast. Really. I was, you know, there. And I do, you know, I used to say to my parents, why didn't you send me to drama school? Why didn't you do? And, you know, and I used to blame them, but I don't now because, I mean, they didn't know. They know what to do with me. And I just think if you, where you grow up in the country can be very different from, you know, what you're kind of educated to do, you know what I mean? What's available to you? And I must say that, let's face it, the Brits and so on and all these magnificent schools, including Paul McCartney School up in Liverpool, didn't really emerge. They've only emerged in the past 20 years. So people like Adele may never have been seen. You know, and this is the great part of our culture that it is finally admiring and giving permission to people who are creative to come out of the woodwork and to be seen and be trained at a younger age. But, you know, this is the dilemma we've had to face. Paul, when you're a little bit over 20, as you are, Maria, I'd like to just mention to Paul, he's one of the lucky ones, the real extrovert type. But as they say, you know, that as many as, or as much as 75% of the population has a fear of public speaking, which means most of us are not as confident and outgoing. And I think it's very important that we bring those people into the environment and give them. Help them to get the confidence to speak up. Yeah. Can I just ask you something I introduced with quite famous speeches. I think we all recognize those speeches. Kenny, give me your opinion, both of you. Could those speakers have made the impact they made just by reading the words without the feeling? Mariette? Definitely not. I thought we should clarify that. I thought we should absolutely clarify that. Very, very first thing that I teach anybody who goes through my courses, Please, whatever you do, do not read. When we read, we have a totally different voice as a voice artist. And Paul would know that. You do get a script, but then you are trained and you read it as if you are speaking. But if you're not trained in that, you. When in the meat. The moment you read from a script or from a PowerPoint slide, it becomes stilted and not real, not. Not of the voice this, the speaking voice that really carries and that means something and brings a message across. And these examples that you've quoted in the beginning, which were really wonderful Those people spoke from the heart. That's the difference. May I tell you a little story, Maria? Of course. My speech and drama teacher, when I was very young, taught us this valuable lesson when she gave us a poem to read or to learn off by heart. In the first week, we had to bring back the poem to her with an illustration. In the second week, she said, take it back, come back next week and tell me the story in your own words. In week three, we had to come back, and then we discussed the background of the poem and she told us a little bit more about the poet. And in week four, we analyzed the poem, and only in week five, we were allowed to read it for the first time aloud. By that time, we've internalized the poem. And I tell my clients, your poem is inside of you, but you've got to learn to trust that you've got it. Everything is there inside, and that's where you have to speak from. Yeah, that totally makes sense. What about you, Paul? Do you think because you are on stage all the time, sometimes you have to do last minute presentations and performances and voiceovers? How do you connect the feeling to the voice? Yeah, it's difficult. I mean, a good example for me would be if you're booked for a voiceover. I mean, when I wanted to get into voiceovers, I thought, well, that was a good way to go. People say I've got a good voice. And I had no idea how difficult voiceovers is. Everybody thinks it's so easy. You just get a script and you read it. But every intonation, every way, you have to mark your script in a way so that when you read it, it reads the way the client wants it. And you could read a script in a hundred different ways and express it in 100 different way. So it really is important about getting the intonations right, bringing in the right words at this pace. There's so many things you've got to think about when you are reading a script. When you're doing a live script, it's about engaging with your audience. It's about entertaining them. It's exactly what you were saying. I mean, I like to not be on script. You've worked with me, Maria, and I like to come off script and have a good chat with the audience and kind of engage with the audience. And that's kind of my way of working. But everybody's got a different way of working. But the voice is just such a powerful thing, you know? But if people aren't engaged by the voice, they'll just Switch off. You know, that many a time, and we've all seen them where you get somebody who is, hello, everybody, I hope you are really having a good time today. And you think, what? How did this person get a job? For a start, you know, who's their agent? I want to have a word who booked you? But it happens. And you cannot believe that the person booking it has literally just booked somebody thinking that they could be a presenter. Everybody thinks they could be a presenter. And the awful thing about reality TV and all these other programs that are on at the moment, that I won't mention them, but we know the ones we're talking about and the people come off the back of these shows and they all want to be presenters and they all want to do adverts and they want to do. And they can't because they've not had the training. They don't understand the voice. They do not understand how the voice works and how powerful it is. And when you do a speech about yourself, Paul, does your tone change? So if, you know, like, Mariette might be working, say, for example, if I were to give a story of my background and I would be working with Mariette, she'd be encouraging me, obviously, to connect with events that happened in my life, to put them across, so that people also could connect with events. But for you, because you're a presenter, does your voice change at that moment? Yeah, and I don't think. I think if you're good at what you do, it just automatically changes. You don't in your head, go, right, I now need to change my voice to sound like this. It just naturally happens. And maybe that's something you could help me with, because I don't understand how that happens, but it does. And I think, also, I think if you're passionate about the subject you're talking about, if it's about yourself, because everybody loves talking about themselves, let's face it, or a subject that you're, you know, passionate about, then you can instantly tell that the voice changes. It's more engaging, you're more au fait with what you're talking about. It's more passion. It's interesting. But, yeah, it's just almost like something inside that just clicks and whatever you need to do. So as a therapist, my work, when I have clients, because I work part time as a therapist in the room, and now because we work on Zoom or Skype or facetime or all these amazing means of connection, we have to listen to the voice. And this is quite, quite powerful. And the voice is a giveaway because sometimes you can sense things in the voice. It's a giveaway, but it's also something as a therapist, you've really, really got to listen out for and understand something is being given away. Now, I listen out to the speed, the pitch or the tone, but it's quite difficult because, for example, you might get somebody who's a little bit manic and their voice quickens, they quicken their speech or if they're depressed, their speech might be slower or, you know, if they are have just been in a family or a loving relationship, they might go into a high pitched voice. Is that, you know, are there hints and tips that you could possibly give, you know, to look out for these tones to voices that you recognize? MARIETTE that is so interesting. MARIA but let me just quickly say something to Paul. Paul, you are so fortunate and working in your environment, you're a professional presenter. When you work with people who is in a job and they've not been trained to do a presentation and suddenly they are put in front of an audience or a group of people in a meeting and they have to present. And I'm talking about those people who you have to guide and help to gain the confidence. Maria with the voices and how our emotions come through in our voices. Our voices and our emotions are extremely closely connected. Just to give you an example, when I did radio work a few years ago on a professional basis, I recorded a commercial. And in the meantime, my father passed on. And after that event, I had to only drop in a different telephone number. And the sound engineer said, mariette, here it is, we're just going to drop in the number. And I did it. I recorded it and he played it back to me and we were both astounded. It sounded like two different people. And the sadness that was in my voice, the different it was a different voice on a lower pitch. I can't tell you how different it was. And it proved once again that you are so right. Our voices do give us away. And is it true that you can temper somebody's state by your own voice? So if you're in a hyped up situation with somebody, doesn't matter whether you're with a client or just presenting or an audience, if you are slower, calmer, does it affect the audience? Paul, do you notice? I think so. It's a control thing. I think if you've got the control, then the audience relaxes and thinks, oh, this guy knows exactly what he's doing, we're safe to go on this journey. With that person. And again, that's something you do with your voice. You know, if you walk on stage and go, hello, everybody, are you excited? Have a good time. They go, goodness me, who's this guy? He's manic. No idea what he's doing. It's not going to work. Whereas, you know, welcome everybody, you're all having a wonderful evening. And you know, read out your announcements of whatever you have to do. People are like, okay, better relax and relax into the night. So I suppose pace is really important and speed and how you present yourself with your voice when you are kind of getting that across to your audience. And how do you deal with that? Mariette, how do you change somebody's tone, their pace? How do you change their state? And how did you, for example, change your state to match the pre recording before your father's death? How did you manage to do that in the end? Was it just trial and error when the sound engineer pointed it out? Of course I could then act the part. Paul knows the show must go on and we just have to be. When we're, you know, when we're in there, we just do what we need to do. But you are so right. When I have a client in front of me and his voice is monotone or too high pitched or too low, I have to then point that out to them. And that's where I get to voice training. And I actually do a proper voice training course with them where I teach them how to place their voice correctly. Many people speak from their throats. They don't make use of the resonance cavities that they have to there which are available sinus cavities even in the skull, the beautiful chamber of the mask to produce or amplify the sound. And that though all those things are very important breath work, as we know. So that then becomes a proper training session, theoretical and practical. So could I, for example, if I had a monotone voice, could I adjust through doing the training and using those pointers which, Paul, you've said, you know, have a script which unless you're very comfortable, you can actually speak off the cuff. But otherwise, could you just by intonation and learning those tricks? Are there tricks? Let's put it that way. Are there pointers? Not tricks, but are there little pointers that you could use? Paul, what you said, you put inflection on the script to help you, and that's to. Is that you said that's guided by the person who's hired you. But is that generally something that you do and you use Anyway, when you are presenting, I think with advertising, it's very important that the person that's paying you wants those certain things really hit home. That's the most important thing that they want in the script. So you mark that up. That's the brand name or how you do it. Everybody knows the sort of breathy Marks and Spencer's read that's quite famous. Or there's the manic read, the car salesman sort of read. So there's different ways with advertising, but I guess if you're actually performing to a live audience, I don't think you can fake it. I don't think it's about faking it. I think once you walk out there and you start marking your script in a way that you know, your, your voice is going up and down and you're talking about this and that, I think the audience is going to not believe in what you're doing. I think it's something that has to become quite natural. But also I think that naturalness, you have to learn, which is a bit odd to say, but you do. You have to learn to be natural. I think most people, when they first walk out on stage are like, got their script in their hand, you know, they're just literally delivering it as quick as they can to get the act on or whatever. And you know, that's awful. But it's their first time, that's what they're going to do their first time. If they've actually gone away, think about it, or they've done it a few times. You know, I started off in holiday parks and working as a red coat at Butlins. You know, I was an awful presenter. But eventually, you know, I learned how to, you know, present myself on stage and enjoy it. And I think that's what it is. I think. And it's sad that there isn't that sort of area now for. For performers to real perform and learn and make their mistakes, because there really isn't. There's nowhere for people to go like that now these days. What did you learn, Paul? How did that learning process go? Well, I think you just realize that the audience aren't engaging with you the way you want them to. And it's hard. As a kid, you're kind of going, this is what I love doing. Why are they not engaging with me? Why are they not enjoying it? And I think you almost watch other people. I used to watch everybody. I mean, I used to on a daily basis watch Scofield and, and all the children's presenters. I used to, you know, and I work behind the scenes on Blue Peter and Smart and Newsround, you know, and I was there just on the sets, just. I used to write to the BBC and say, I want to come down and. And they'd say, there's no spaces. And I'd say, there is. And I'd walk up to the BBC and I just black my way. And I was really, really cocky. And I'd be on set that I'd watch these presenters and I'd just say, you know, oh, they're listening. And that's another thing. Somebody's usually talking in your ear if you're on tv. And that's another skill you have to learn. And that's a very difficult skill. But again, it's something I had to learn. And what I used to do is I used to play the radio in my ear and watch television, and I'd try and watch the television and listen to what they were saying in my ear. Eventually I learned myself so that when I actually had to do it for real, somebody talking in my ear was quite a normal thing. But it's very useful at bars, Maria, because you could be talking to somebody in front of you and you could also hear the conversation behind you. Juiceful. I'll remember that. So, Mariette. What? Somebody is now going on stage and they're losing the audience. Is there something they can do to grab the audience attention? Is there something just in the tone of their voice or the speed, the tone, you know, the volume? Is there something they can do? You know what is one of the best. I can't wait to find out. No, I'm writing this down as well. Hang on. This is what I do. You keep quiet. Yes. I was gonna ask you about the pause. Yes. You simply keep quiet and you look at them and you just pause. But there's a difference between a live pause and a dead pause. Yes. Is when you stop talking. But your body, your body, your body language, your body is still talking. But a dead pause is when you simply keep quiet and everything goes. Yes. Oh, that's so funny. But, you know, that's so interesting because when you look at and discuss about body language with people, this is something that they talk about. You know, what you can tell through the body language. And as he said, there's not a 75% that are afraid of speaking, but also how much that people remember when you've come off stage, which is very limited, but they do remember whether they liked you and whether you were powerful, don't they? Marriott. Oh, that is so important. One of my clients reminded me the other day and I actually forgot that I taught him that. But I said they're not going to remember what you've said or necessarily how you said it, but they are going to remember how you made them feel. Yeah. And I don't know if you know this, Paul, when you were back in acting days, and you may remember coming back to the pause and you may remember, Mariette, that Harold Pinter wrote his plays and he was very famous in the world of acting for the Pinter pause. So you knew that you would have to be on the stage and somehow retain the essence of the character within that space of silence and still convey the feeling in his work. Particularly if you've got the birthday party. It's a lot of animosity, a bit of aggression, that quiet and yet very loud aggression, and so on. So, yes, the pause. And how do you handle that? That's not so good, though, when you're doing a radio program so much, or if you're doing something on audio, is it? Or can you do that through audio unless you guide them to that moment. Can I come in there? Yeah, please. Definitely on audio. We forget that. That even on radio a pause is super important. Maria. And that I find of most of my clients just. They just speak very, very fast. It's some people, some languages. In some languages, people talk very fast. So this is how I teach them to use a pause. And Paul, you might pick up on those, because I think you use it on. In a daily basis when you do voiceovers. I get them to take a magazine and a printed ad and then I get them to mark the copy as if they are going to read that commercial on radio. And they actually have to mark the pauses and the emphasis. And as we know, pause and emphasis go hand in hand. And that's a brilliant exercise because by doing those few lines with the correct intonation and the correct pauses, they really begin to understand the value of a pause. So can you give us an example, Marriott? Certainly. I would love that. Because although Paul would instantaneously understand, and I understand to some extent, but Paul, much more quickly, when people listen to this, they may not fully understand the nuance of what you're speaking. Right. I've got my book in front of me and the subtitle, I'm just going to use that as an example. It says how your voice can make you money and give you the life you desire. Now, if we want to make a word stand out or something important, I usually explain it like this. Think of yourself crossing a little stream. And in the stream there are smaller rocks, a medium sized rock and one big rock. Lightly tripping over the smaller rocks. Maybe we pause slightly on the medium rock and then we go for the bigger rock. We aiming for the bigger rock. And by making a slight pause before and after a word, that word stands out. So I'm going to read it to you. Let me first do it the wrong way. Okay. This is the wrong way. How your voice can make you money and give you the life you desire. Mm, right. Yes, the right way. How your voice can make you money and give you the life you desire. Yes, I get that. You sold it to me. Definitely. And I'm sure she sold it to you, didn't she? Mariette sold it to you, Paul. Definitely. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. And that's great to get the example because. But also something I picked up in your voice as well. And I do have this with certain people. Not all people can do this is the sing song nature. I said that to you. I said that to some. Actually. It's in my local shop that somebody was talking to me, but they had a sing song nature to their voice. You have that Mariette, and as I sort of mentioned with Martin Luther King, that deep resonance that draws you into the soul of certain voices. And do you sing? Is vocal coaching to learn to sing a good way to help you with vocal, you know, verbal expression as well? It is the best way, Maria, because first of all, it teaches you breath control, which is the beginning of voice. But also the important thing for me is, and that's what I always believe and say, every one of us has a unique quality to our voices. And I say, become aware of the sound of your own voice. Start listening like Paul did. He went on set and he was. He watched the other presenters, but never copy somebody else. Obtain your uniqueness, even if you have an accent. I've got a Greek lady who teaches with me and I don't want her to lose her beautiful little bit of a Greek accent because that makes her unique and standing out. So I think, yes, if you've got the quality of your voice, we must improve your way of speaking, but we mustn't make you another Mariette or another Maria. Do you know, it's so interesting because my parents, obviously I've said before, are Polish. And when my mother spoke English, she spoke with a Polish accent eventually. But my first language was at home, was Polish. So now when I go, I'm very lucky because when I go to restaurants and coffee bars and blah, blah, blah. All these places, there's lots of Polish people. And I try to ask them, are they Polish? Try to guess, is their accent Polish? And very often, and I'm right, which is fabulous. But different cultures have different intonation. And when I ran my comedy club, for example, and had lots and still do comedy now with, you know, sort of book various comedians, we still have the cultural change shift in their language. So in Australian this. And it was only when an Australian comedian actually pointed it out that he said their intonation, their inflection is up to at the end. So instead of a question is, have a good day. And that's really quite funny because our intonation here, the question is very different. But again, in South Africa it's different. And the Polish always speak quite quickly because their language is, you know, all these shushing sounds altogether. And their general speech is very, very, very fast. So that's how I recognize it. So do you. Is there a language pattern, if not a culture that people, to make themselves understood, should adhere to? So they used to talk about the Queen's English. And is there something that people, no matter where they come from, when they speak English, that they should adhere to or do adhere to? I think it's interesting because back, back in the day, it was very, hello there. We were at the BBC and here we are very, very excited that we've got Maria Kabinska talking to us today. And that's how everybody talks. And I think probably growing up, you would have watched that and thought, who on earth talks like that? You know, do they actually go in? And who decided one day to go, everybody is going to talk like this really, really quickly? And. But that was the way they talked. And for a long time, regional accents were, were just not acceptable either. Everybody BBC was very London and everybody had to have the rp. So it was more. It wasn't as bad as that, but they kept the rp. So everything and everybody started talking a little bit more like the Queen's English. And then eventually one day somebody said, no, this is just not regional enough. People need to be everywhere around the country, need to hear their accents, they need to accept their accents. So. And even when I was at drama college in Newcastle, they basically, basically said, oh, a Geordie accent, you know, you won't get any work. So we were sort of encouraged to, you know, break down our accents a lot. And then just the year above me, and I hate to name drop, was Anton Deck. And they, you know, they didn't listen at all. And I think they've done all right, but they have slightly toned down their Geordie accents, so they're not as strong, but they're still, you know, friendly accents. And accents are really important. I think accents or your regional dialect, they are all about your area. And I think it's great when we turn on the TV now that we hear all the different accents and they're just such different accents on adverts and TV shows. And it's just so acceptable that we see that now. And I think that's really important. Yeah. And Mariette, how do you train somebody? If somebody comes in with a thick accent, say, you know, sort of if I've just come from Poland and I want to do voiceovers or I need to do a speech, how do you train somebody to change their accent? And when you change, help them change to be understood? Because that's why you speak, of course, to be recognized, heard, understood. Do they. Does that alter their state, their mental state as well? Yes, most definitely. Maria. I have a lady whose home language is Cantonese and she speaks beautifully, but it is so totally different from English. So what we needed to do was to really make her aware of her pronunciation. And she had to do some exercises to loosen her jaw to be able to open her mouth wider. Her tongue was very lazy, so we had to do extra speech exercises. And yes, but I agree with Paul. I don't mind an accent. The only thing that I need to do is to help that client or that person to make herself more clear so that she can be understood better. And seeing that she now has to communicate in English online. And online is more important and more difficult because if you are face to face with. To a person, like, as we know, if you're face to face, you have all the other visual cues available to you, your body language. A person can even lip read and see your face and all the expressions. But online, of course, we lose. We lost that. Well, I did my first live job at the weekend in Eastbourne and I had to wear a mask and I hadn't even. I hadn't prepared. I just hadn't. I was ready to do my job and I put the microphone to my mouth and thought, oh, there's a mask there. And my mouth sounded muffled. And I'm in a shopping center and I just felt really awkward. And I spoke to the client afterwards. And next week when I do the job again, they're going to get me one of those clear plastic ones so people could actually see my mouth because I just Felt it was really alien. It was very weird to try and express and it was almost like a barrier that I couldn't get through to communicate to people because I had this mask on and the microphone was right up to the mask. And as you can imagine, the sound wasn't as good as it could be because it was being muffled by the mask. So I'm really glad that we're going to get to a point where we don't have to wear these masks because we do need to lip read, we do need to see people's facial expressions. And looking out to a sea of masks in an audience, again, was completely new to me and was a bit scary. You were sort of looking for the. I was asking questions. It was, it was. The thing was, it's the great plastic way and it's all about plastic awareness. It was all for the environment and I wanted to ask some questions and I went out with a microphone and again, I thought, I have no idea who's engaged with me because I can't see their mouths, I can't see their faces, I can just see these eyes looking back at me. Are they looking, what the heck's he talking about? Or are they engaged in what I'm seeing? So it was a real eye opener. And like we were saying there about lips reading and things like that, to see that mask. And I'm really glad, as I said, that that's going to be something that we won't have to wear in the future. And must have been even more exhausting, because performance is exhausting. Draining, really draining. Yeah. And I don't think people realize till they've actually experienced that moment of performance. And I know with working with comedians and having done it once myself, how absolutely draining it was. But when you're listening to somebody on the phone, for example, Mariette, and there's a new client, can you tell their underlying mental condition by the way they speak to you? And is it something that you register and think, I've got to help them work on that? Because if you, as you say, if you go on stage, if Paul went on stage, or if I was doing something and went on stage and I was a bit low key or a bit depressed, that might turn people off. But do you recognize that and do you work on uplifting their mood as well through the way they speak? Marianne? Oh, yes, most definitely. When you phone your mum and she says, hello, Maria, you know exactly how to feel even, even more. Yeah, I know. With my mom, definitely. Yeah. Or a partner. Yes. Yeah. But I Also want to pick up on something that Paul said about and you love the energy and how draining it is. That is so true. I also, I would like to give a tip on that. I tell my, my students, eat a good breakfast with protein before you go on stage or be online because we really need, we need energy for ourselves, but we also need energy for our viewers or listeners. And that is true. I do have a few tips to give people on how to. Maria, in my book, the first part is about the look, but it's not about how you look on the outside, it's how you look and feel on the inside. Because that was wonderful to add that I think people, you know, sort of, as I was reading that, I thought that's such a good tip because it's that sustainability. A lot of comedians use beer, by the way. Beer, whiskey, vodka, that sustains them because it's late night. But I totally agree. You can't do that as a presenter. They don't allow that in a normal setting. You know, the way you eat the, you know, the protein, as you recommend in your book, is phenomenal. You know, it gives such good advice and it's so, so important. But is there. So here I am or Paul's rushing on stage. You've got to go on. It's the last minute. How do I lift them up? I'm sure Paul does it naturally. Hello, welcome. Da, da, da, da. But you've got somebody that is really low. What do you tell them? Is there a speech level they have to rise to? Do they turn up the volume? What are the psychological tricks? You know, what is the self talk you can have before you go on stage? Mariette. Well, here's my recipe. Very, very close thing. Even if you are not seen, you're just doing it for yourself. You create space between, between your ears and your shoulders. And by doing that, you're relaxing. Oh, yeah. Listen to me. You're relaxing your, your neck muscles as well as your shoulder muscles. And that is very important. We first need you relaxed so we don't want any constriction in your neck or in your jaw or on your shoulders. And then I teach them to breathe. And it's a very simple breathing exercise that anybody can do even when you are on camera because nobody will realize that you're doing it. You breathe in on the count of four, hold to the count of four, breathe out on a sh. And keep it a controlled shh out on the count of four. And then stay without breath to the count of four. By doing that little breathing exercise, Maria, it just sets you in the right mood. It calms you down, and you also come and focus, and you're in the moment that we need. Oh, fabulous. So, Paul, I was gonna say. Yeah, mine is humming. So I do a lot of humming. Because sometimes when you're out and about, you can't be seen to be doing too many. Like. Like, people think it's crazy, so. Whereas if you do a gentle hum, people usually don't know a shoe that's humming. And you could actually feel your throat warming up. You feel your whole diaphragm warming up. Everything warms up with a hum. It's like a gentle. And you can feel it in your head and everything just keeps going. But you're right, a good diet is very important. Breathing exercise is excellent. But, yeah, humming's my tip. Your thing as well. Brilliant. And we do talk about that. But what about stage nerves, which does affect. Because nervousness often kicks in after you're on stage, after a period of time. So. Billy Connolly famously used to be sick before he went on stage. Wow, okay. And he was such a seasoned and successful performer, but he was very often sick because of the stress. What can you do? What do you do, Paul? I don't drink any fizzy drinks or anything like that. I'd have, like, a water. Water's always good. It's about the only thing I have before I go on. I go to the toilet before I go on. So I know, I. Otherwise you. You go on and you think, I haven't been to the toilet. I need to go. Whereas even if you don't need to go, it's the last thing I do before I leave the dressing room or, you know, wherever I'm working, I go to the toilet. So I know in my head, and that's more of a psychological thing I found over the years, sometimes you don't need to go. But just the fact that you're in there, you get yourself. There's usually a mirror in there as well. So you can just, you know, have your final checks, check your flies always and then. And always, always. Don't, you know, don't underestimate that, because it can happen. And then head back, head out there. But I think nervous. I think if I'm not nervous before performance, then there's something wrong. You know, I always get nervous, but I. It's an exciting nervous. You know, it's like I'm getting right back out there. I mean, I hadn't performed or presented live for about a year because of the pandemic. So Saturday was the first time I performed. I was so nervous. I was like, this is crazy. And I thought, I'm in a shopping center. You know, just people, you know, this is not, you know, the Royal Albert Hall, But I was still nervous when I went out there. But once you get out there, you know, you can still do it and you feel good and then. And then you're back. And it was great to be back on Saturday. It was. It was a wonderful fear. It was quite emotional, but I almost wanted to go, thank you, everybody. It's great to be back. But I was thinking they don't really care about that. That's. That's for me. That's more for me. Yeah, I did feel like that. I felt, you know, we felt all had a terrible time. You know, nobody's had any worse time or bad. You know, some people have had a horrific time during this pandemic. And I think it was great to be back performing so. And being able to use your voice again and. But even when I've been, you know, downtime, as you know, I've been doing lots of stuff online and things like that, but you have to keep practicing. Do you agree with that? Practicing is really important? Oh, absolutely. I always say learning to speak is like learning to ride a bicycle. You know, in the beginning, you are going to be wobbly and you might fall off, but you are getting on. And once you found your balance. And Paul, you've definitely found your balance. But once you found your balance, you're going to get on that bike, ride down the hill with the wind in your hair, and really enjoy the ride. But I want to give a tip that I do before I go online or speak, and that is brush my teeth. Oh, wow. Good idea. I like that. Yeah, absolutely. Get rid of any food particles. Yeah, good point. But, Mariette, how do you deal with. How do you encourage your clients to deal with their nerves? Ah, yes, but you need to have nerves. Exactly what Paul says. If you're not nervous, then I'm. Then I'm concerned. Yeah, no, you need all the adrenaline you can muster, and I teach them to embrace that. I have a little mantra myself. I say, thank you, body, thank you for the adrenaline. Here we go. So you see nerves as adrenaline. That it is that natural kick, you know, energy kick. Do you. Most definitely palms and. But you need that. You need that to perform your. At your best destiny. I mean, Maria. Maria, you must have seen it all the time, you know, working in the comedy clubs and you know, the years. So did you speak to any of the comedians that gave you tips or that said what their rituals were? I must say, Paul, that I did do my own stand up for 10 minutes. And this is after a number of years of watching stand up. And I cannot tell you how nervous I was. And I thought, oh, I'll have a drink, you know, drink some alcohol before I go and that will calm me down. No, it didn't. It gave me more energy because. And it gave me more nerves because it was sugar and I thought, blow. Nothing's working. I even had a list of my gags in front of me that didn't work. I even had somebody holding them up that didn't work. And I had to try to remember all of it. And I cannot tell you how nervous I was, but I got through the 10 minutes and I remembered everything as you said, Mariette. And I had rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed. And I think it's that listening to yourself before you go on, taking a deep breath, knowing that people could. Were here to. Actually, most people, I think, want you to be good in a comedy club. It's not always the case. But once I actually did get along when I started, and then I did a few ad libs and that was. People found that funny, but it was 11:30 at night and it was quite tricky. But I learned an awful lot. And sometimes, as you say, both of you, it's not until you get on stage do you know what it takes from you as an individual to perform. Sadly, we're coming almost to the end of the program, but I want to ask you both something that I think is quite important in life and to people. How do you change your tone to speak to somebody you love? Now, when mothers, when babies are born, the mother's voice goes up and she speaks in that high pitched voice, which is the way the baby resonates with the mother and it's the way the mother resonates. You know, sort of make sure that the child can hear her. You know, sort of all these little sayings and the games and the songs they play. Can. Is there a voice tone of love in a relationship? What do you think, Paul? Let's start with you. And then Mariette, can you can come? Oh, I was gonna say, I'll see what Marietta says first. I think my partner knows that I'm a performer. So they would spot instantly if I put on the whole acting presenter vibe. They just would believe that. So I guess they get the real person. They get the real Paul Metcalf. And I think that's. That wasn't always easy because I think as a performer growing up, I was always a performer. I was always performing, so. But when you meet the right person, you don't. You don't, you know, conscious. You just do it. You just kind of like you. I think my voice goes down. I think it doesn't go up. I think it would be. Does it slow down? Yes, I think it slows down. And I think you communicate with that person in a different way and. Yeah, and then you just. You express it through the words as well. I think the words are obviously really important. I mean. Yeah. So do you choose different words? Are you conscious of that? Well, I mean, it's very simple. Very easy thing to say is saying, I love you. You can say that to anybody. You can walk down the street, say that to anybody. I love this. I love this cheese. I love this banana. You know, that. That's different. But when you actually say to somebody, you know, I love. I really love you. You know, I really love you. It's. You're bringing your voice right now. Yeah, you got it then. I totally believed you then. Well, I had somebody in mind. And again, it's. It's having that person in mind. They're not. They're not here at the moment, but, you know, they're in my head. And you just have to think of that person and. And it becomes real. Yeah. And is it something that you've thought about, you know, sort of. Marriott? No, I'm not just talking about. In your personal life, but when you talk to clients, do they ever ask you, should I change my tone? Or what is the tone that changes? I must admit, Maria, we haven't really done any Love talk coaching yet, but maybe I can add that. That's a new book, I think. I think so. Because, you know, there are lots and lots of. I've, you know, obviously in my work, I've dealt with a number of couples, and sometimes we all know this. When you're not getting on that, you know, it becomes tense and you say things and, you know. But if people are taught that there can be a language of love, there can be certain things you do together to make love more vibrant. And the language you say to that person may be different than somebody else, but I presume, Mariette, that you unconsciously do that anyway because you have a very soft, engaging, warm, sort of draw people in voice that sort of, you know, that people would come to You. So do you think that's what people should. Should people work on that? Should they work on the language of love? Maybe it's time. Yes, they should. Maria, when you. The main thing about communication and what I really make people aware of communication is talking and listening. And you've got to learn how to listen. And especially when two people are in a relationship, you know, psychologists have this old saying or this old method of teaching people who need to communicate better to begin their sentences with I hear you. Yeah, remember that one. And actually works very well, because if you can say, I hear you, you give the other person an opportunity to say, well, did I hear you correctly? And respond. So I want them to listen as much as they talk, but you've got to listen as they talk, but equally in the tone you respond, you know, has to be in a softer tone. It's a more measured tone. So the anxiety, the tension, the anger, potentially all comes out of the voice. And as Paul did, that wonderful Jetme moment, which you will have to separate and you can record that, Paul, keep that. Because I do think it's pulling back on those anxious sort of inflated moments when you are trying to get a point across and actually draw it back and say, yes, I am listening. I do hear you. Because when you are speaking the. Especially with somebody you love, those are the moments that somebody either hears you or they don't hear you. And that comes in the underlying message, in the tone of which you speak. So there could be something to be done in the language of love that people could learn more. I'm sure they do it and do it naturally very well, but there could be some hints and tips that can be given. But I do think, yes, to say, I hear you. I'm actually thinking about what you've said, and I'd like to come back to you about that. Or. Or, you know, the mirroring, in a way, people just say, oh, mirror them. I don't think that's always good. Because if their emotions are heightened to mirror, then you'll heighten your emotion, but to calm down, bring them back. Because true love, as Paul just said, when you said I love you, is much softer, much warmer. And it's like a mother who speaks to their child is. There's something much more tender in that moment. And perhaps if we learn to modulate our voices more often and practice that relationships could have better communication. Do you think that's true, Mariette? Maria, you are so right. And pauses. If you pause and bring your voice down and look at your partner, making eye contact and really listen to that person. Yes. Oh, this is so exciting. We've got another program here about the language of love. I do believe that's such an important because we move so quickly in this day and age. And I do think the language of love, the language of communication, and this is not just love to a partner you love, but to the people we love, the agape, the people that around us that we love, but our people we work with, that we care for, and also, you know, our children and generally that moment. So we're finishing our program and I just really wanted to say, Mariette Richardson, thank you so, so much for joining in. And please read free the Hidden speaker inside. As I say, it's on the Times bestseller list, and that is amazing. And you can also have it on audio where you hear the lovely Mariette speaking. And also, Paul, thank you so much. Paul Metcalfe, who is a sensational presenter. And thank you so much, both of you, for joining in with me, Dr. Maria Kompinska. And you'd Mind Matters. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Lovely talking to you, Maria.