Get Booked – Fab Gionavetti, Reclaim Your Time Off 240521

Hello, this is Get Booked for Women's Radio Station, played daily at 5 PM and Tuesdays at 4 PM for Men's Radio Station. I'm Hazel Butterfield and I absolutely love doing this show, talking to authors, chatting about anything and everything book-related, and all the joy, enlightenment, and escape that good books can provide. Sit back and let us entertain you with a different author each week sharing who they are, what they do, and what inspires them. Now on today's Get Booked, we have Fab Giavanetti chatting to us about her latest book, Reclaim Your Time Off, a book that after this last year, I'm sure is going to be beneficial for many of us, a book that needs to be embraced to get our work time and you time back on track. The lines have become too blurred. Our bedrooms, dining table, and sofa time have become our new pandemic office. Working from home has enabled us and yet disabled us at the same time. However, for way too many of us, this was an issue long before COVID hit, and in the modern work working world, we work really hard, on average over 60 hours per week. In order to do more, we silently have agreed to sacrifice our time off, and burnout is the buzzword. The inbox of shame and productivity paralysis describe a normal working day. Fab is joining us here today to chat about reclaiming our time off, and with a name like that, I feel like we should listen. However, read the books, why no, we should listen. So let's get cracking. Fab, hi! Hello! You definitely give me, you know, I think it's, as you said, is my name, it just puts a lot of pressure onto performing, I think, straight away. So hello and thank you for having me. You will be fab. I think, I feel like you should have t-shirts made. Oh me, I mean, the puns are not lost on me. There's so many jokes, so many things over the past years, the past 10 years I've been living in the UK and there's always a new one that people come up with and it always makes me really happy, so I should probably put them all on different t-shirts and then wear them when I'm out. Yes, you can wear your— your t-shirt will determine exactly how fab you are feeling. Maybe have a scale of 1 to 10. Oh, I like that. Okay, that's a new one, thank you so much for that. Or you could just completely go down the Hypercolor route and just, you know, there's like, um, you can get like fancy nails and t-shirts that change depending on your heat, a bit like a mood ring. Oh yeah, I love it. Like a fab ring, kind of like, how fabulous are you feeling today? And then it kind of goes for different like colours or sparkles and things like that. Yes, exactly. There you go. We've just come up with a new business idea and we weren't even trying. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, Hazel, that's pretty much my weekly basis. There's a new idea coming up, so I'm glad that we're bringing this up together because it just happens so much for me anyway. Oh, brilliant. Well, I've been storming through your book and I've been chatting away. I actually went on a dog walk this morning and the person that I met, my friend that I was walking with, she's just about to go into a conference on how to work smarter, and I was like, oh man, you should have just taken this book with you and kind of said, ta-da! It's something that everybody's talking about at the moment, isn't it? It's interesting though, because this book was actually born about 2 years and a half ago. So when you think about it in the grand scheme of things, It was before this topic was actually so much on everybody's mouths. And I think it just happened naturally because you mentioned it actually in the introduction, which I think is so important. This is something that we're talking about right now. Obviously, there are conferences about it, so that proves that. But also, we have been, you know, a lot of us and some of us have been struggling with just finding balance and understanding how to navigate work and life for a very long time. And I was among these people. And I mean, I'm sure you know, and I'm sure your listeners know from obviously talking to different authors, I think the best books are the ones that authors write because they needed somebody to tell them those things and they cannot find it anywhere else. So they come up themselves. And that's kind of why this book was born, because I've always been struggling with this. And now so many people are facing the lack of boundaries, the overwhelm, the stress. And so it's become more of a mainstream conversation and it's definitely allowed a lot more people to be aware of where their energy goes. But again, so many people have been struggling for a long time because it can be natural for us to go into the hoops of constantly working, following up with new ideas, and just wanting— because we're passionate about what we do as well. That's kind of my camp, I would say. Paradoxically, we are always so busy and trying to squeeze things in that we don't actually take the time off to assess how we can get the most out of our time. And I think reading books like yours helps us to realize what we're potentially not doing wrong. Now, just to get cracking, just to give our listeners a little bit of an insight, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and why you've been writing Reclaim Your Time Off and what you do on your website and everything so people can just understand a little bit more about you? Excellent. No problemo. So we're going to go back. It was one fair morning of September 1990. I'm joking. I'm joking. We're not going to go that back. Scale it up a bit more. All right. Let's come back to 10 years ago. That sounds more feasible for, for a radio show. No, when about 10 years ago I moved to the UK and I think that's a big jump of what I've been doing. And at that time I was, using a pattern that, as I said, I always had, which was doing different things because I had a passion, I had a dream, which was very different from what I do right now. It was becoming a music journalist, and I was really passionate about, about the topic, but I had to also work. And so I moved to the UK after my degree, and I did random jobs so that I would build up in the meantime the connections and doing work for free to again become, make my name into the music sphere as well. So that was kind of where I started to have this juggling kind of career, almost, if you want to put it this way, before multi-hyphen careers were a thing. And fast forwarding a bit to then becoming a marketing manager, that was probably the first big break. And from then, then I almost left my dream, so to speak, because I really got passionate about marketing, which is kind of what you would know me as by trade, I guess, as a marketing consultant. That's what I do mainly. And I've been a marketing manager and working in marketing for the past 10 years. Then I left a full-time employed job 8 years ago. So it's been much, much longer than probably I can even think about sometimes. And at that time, then I went back to my juggling, quite honestly, because I was trying to run my own business, figure out what my business was. And then I had a couple of passions and groups and communities that I just started building. That then became part of my job. And so a lot of people know me now as the founder of Creative Impact Group, which is a collective of creatives and experts making a positive impact in the world. So I would— that one became more and more what I would focus on on a daily basis. And on top of that, I then started working with clients, first of all from business and strategy. And then I just came back to marketing because that's really where my passion lays and my experiences. And I would always have different things on the go. Creative Impact has got different products within it. We have a community, we have courses, we have a magazine, we have events. And then my consulting was very varied. I would work with individuals, I would work with startups. And then I started, I do a lot of teaching as well for different courses and colleges. And at time of chatting to you, Hazel, I'm starting a new venture very soon, a new project that I really wanted to, I'm very passionate about. So, as I said, I am the kind of person that would follow different passions and leads and would be kind of exploring different ideas. And even when I had my own business, I realized that was my way of thriving, that was my way of getting excited. And I realized that that was my idea of balance and understanding when I went off balance was key for me because I'm quite prone to burnouts, unsurprisingly. And I talk about it in the book as well. I realized that I would be working 60 hours per week because I was working on my passion, on my dream. But then I, again, spoiler alert for anyone, especially when you are working for yourself, whether you're a freelancer or a business owner, there's not really a switch that flips that tells you now you've made it, now you can scale back on the amount of time you work. There is no such thing. And I talk a lot in the book about success and understanding what success means to you. Because until I made the decision of actually reclaiming my time and stop working every single second of my life, I wasn't able to do that. And it wasn't because I reached what other people told me would be the right space or place, or I had the right numbers. I just said, okay, this is how I want to live my life, and in order to do that, I need to create some boundaries. And then when I did that, then everything started to fit and everything started to make sense. And so when I was going through that journey, that's pretty much when I wrote the book. So it wasn't really at the very end of it. It was as I was going through kind of simplifying my work life. Funnily enough, as I mentioned, this book then has been slightly adapted for the times that we're in right now because obviously it's just coming out on May 11th. So And then I added to it more recently, working with my publishers, we added an extra element to really speak to people that have enjoyed, who have started working from home and remotely and are wanting to bring it back into what they're going to do later on, whether they work for somebody else or for themselves. We might actually want to navigate remote working and take it as something that we can take forward as well. So that's a bit of the backstory. That's a bit how the book fits within the timeline and also why there is a bit of a focus on something that is quite relevant to us right now, which is obviously working from home and remotely as well. It's— do you know what, I mean, this book struck so many chords with me, and the thing is, yes, it's hard at the moment because everybody's just trying to figure out where everything's going to land post-pandemic, but before that, we were all— everybody was saying— it just used to be something I'd hear constantly among my friends on the dog walk, to hearing people say on the tube or whatever, "I just need a couple of months off to catch up with life. I am so burnt out." Where, you know, people are having portfolio careers and they're trying to attain, you know, trying to find something that gives them that buzz. And they're doing, you know, gone are the days where you do 9 to 5 and it's one job for 30, 40 years. People generally do about 3 or 4 different jobs or they have side hustles or they do jobs that they don't necessarily like so that it gives them the time and the finances to do something that they possibly do enjoy more, but it's not something they can make a huge amount of money out of. And, you know, with social media, we are constantly trying to beat the Joneses off, not feel like we're wasting our time doing nothing because everybody else seems to be doing so much more and they're so incredibly successful. And it's just trying to, it's hard trying to figure out where you sit within society. And, and we're all— what I did like in your book as well is, is the bit where it said that, you know, we are all completely different, and somebody's priorities might not be aligned with what you want or how your family is, and, and, you know, what requirements there are for you to be happy. And it's just, um, your book tackles all the different scenarios And I mean, it's, I'm already starting to panic because I'm unfurloughed. I'm back in the studios. I'm back in the office. I'm here, there, I'm everywhere. And I'm already thinking, wow, I don't even have time to sit down and answer my emails. And it's, it's tough, isn't it? It's very interesting that you mentioned that as well, because first of all, thank you for reiterating a big point of the group, of the group, of the book. That's the one, which is that Everybody's different. And I didn't want people to pick up the book, say, that's a really cute cover. I'm going to read this thing. And then you open the second page and it says to you, you have to wake up at 5:00 AM every morning. Because some people just can't do that. I've had a friend, she read the book and she gave me some feedback and she said, I love this book because it allowed me, it almost allowed me, she said, to discover my most creative time, and it's 2 AM. And I really love to spend some time writing at 2 AM because I just feel that's when I'm most productive and that's when I get most excited. And I was like, yeah. Again, there's something to say about obviously sleep and sleep patterns and all of that. But if, for example, you're most productive at 7 and you say, I can actually adjust it with my life— and I love that you mentioned family as well because that's so important— I can adjust it with the people in my life and the way my life works. That I can spend between 7 and 8 in the evening to, I don't know, write a proposal or maybe work on my creative work, or maybe again, even doing things like some personal development or learning, because that's the best time for you to retain that information. Once you allow yourself to understand your own rhythms and you can justify or compromise, very important, and find a way to make it work with the people around you, because we'd like to have a social life, especially now that we can, You will find that, you know, what is deemed as productivity, as being more effective, doesn't have to be this sort of set of rules that you have to follow. Personally, I like to wake up early, like 6, not 5, because I actually find that I have a couple of hours to just do all the things that I enjoy doing because I'm really productive in the morning and then I can just get it done. But that is because it works for me. So The last thing I want people to do is open a book that will tell them what they should do. I give you tips. I'll give you exercises, which I'm sure you started playing with because you said that you kind of were taking bits and bobs. Um, because I want you to discover things for yourself. And I want you to give yourself permission when you are reading this book and you're taking the lessons and applying them to adapt it to what works best for you. Because at the end of the day, if you are consistent with what you do, even if that means working a bit more in the evenings because that's where you're most productive, then, you know, that's your life. Your balance, not work-life balance, which we can get into if you want in a second, but your idea of balance should be unique to you because it's tied into your values and how you want to lead your life. Well, that's what you do in this book. You give people examples and activities and the your love of journaling to help people recognize their rhythms and when they are at their best. It's not a case of, as you say, everybody wake up at 5 because you can be productive. No, you might be productive at 10 o'clock AM or PM, and journaling and helping you understand when you're at your best, I mean, that's the biggest gift you can give yourself is helping you to understand what motivates you and when you are at your best. You did a section on awe And this is one of my favorite things ever, that if you know what ignites your passion, you're halfway there, you know? It's like I say to people when they're feeling a little bit low or they're feeling like they just can't get motivated, whether it's at work or with something to do with family, find that thing that gives you that buzz, do that. And it's the most incredible tool you can have. And it's the same as what motivates you. I mean, I've got a friend who is motivated by jazz music and she knows if she listens to some jazz music, that's gonna kind of Ctrl+Alt+Delete her. And some people it's comedy, some people it's going out for a walk on their own. And, you know, knowing yourself and knowing your rhythms is an incredible, incredibly powerful tool, isn't it? 1,000%. I'm actually gonna go back onto the old bit as well, 'cause I love that you picked that one up, 'cause I really loved writing about it, 'cause I found it incredibly fascinating. And I know it's not necessarily one of the more kind of hard tips or, you know, quite heavy on that side of things. It's more just a reflection for me in that point. And in that point, in that, in that side, in the part of the book, actually what I wanted to explain to people is that you mentioned passions, which I think is so important, but also the awe, the wonder, having fun and just finding a bit of levity in life. It also reminds us that controversial, ready, controversial alert, We don't have to turn every passion into a job. We don't have to be— and I talk about it when I also talk about boredom in the book. We don't have to make everything functional. So if your friend loves jazz music, it doesn't mean that they have to become a jazz musician or they have to start reviewing jazz music. This probably is a bit, you know, this is probably a bit more far-fetched, but there are other people that maybe love photography or you love baking. Yes, you can turn it into a job. Yes, you can turn it into your business. But I know people that are incredibly fulfilled and successful, and I want to say this, by working for somebody else, having a job that maybe is flexible, that allows them to work at, you know, reduced hours, and then they just enjoy doing their passions, still have their hobbies without any pressure attached. Yeah, I'm not in that camp, but I saw people that are, and I wanted really to say that because it ties in with awe as well and wonder. But that's the thing, isn't it? It's understanding what's going to work for you. Do you need to be PAYE, or do you need to work for yourself? Are you going to be motivated motivated enough, or maybe you want to consider working for yourself, and in which case, you know, read the book so that— because there's a great section on, you know, how to get started and when you're hiring staff and how to motivate yourself and plan your day. Now there's one— there's a part on page 58 that— and I really want to bring this up because I know there's a lot of people out there at the moment that are struggling with this— when the pandemic first hit, Lounge wear purchases went through the roof. None of us knew when it was going to stop. We were all kind of slightly in limbo. We didn't know whether we were going to be furloughed for 3 weeks or 3 months, and it ended up being a year for some of us. And because we've been in limbo, some of us haven't quite embraced the opportunity to look at more structure. You know, the kids are here, there, and everywhere, and there are a lot of offices that are just not coming back into force, you know, that people are staying working from home. And you do an excellent section just on really simple tips on how to signify the end of a workday, which I think is so important for many of us that are in loungewear all day and kind of stay in it all day. I kind of feel like you need to wear a tie around your neck even if it's with your pyjamas and then take it off at the end of the day. Because symbols matter, don't they? I could definitely see somebody rocking the tie. Actually, on that note, there is such a thing as smart pyjamas, which made me lol so much. It's just like, yes, you can do your Zoom in your pyjamas and still look like you're cool and you're actually dressed up. So there is an element of that, which again could definitely catch on. Yet another business idea, and we're not even halfway through this. So I'm loving this. But no, to be in all seriousness, it is another boundary, isn't it? That's what it literally is. It's just you setting up simple boundaries for yourself. Like, I have people, I go out for a walk usually, I have people that go to another room, I have people that, again, as you say, potentially they get changed, people have a shower as well. It's just whatever can really help you, you know, reframing and resetting. Because as you said, we all struggled a lot with boundaries. And one of the things that I'm wondering and I'm thinking is not going to change is we had a year to kind of adapt to boundaries or lack thereof because of everything that's happened. It's a bit naive for us to assume that we're going to go back to potentially work of old patterns and somehow these habits that have been almost forced onto us, they're going to disappear. This is why we're so— we're struggling even more now with burnout and stress because we had to adapt so much without even knowing that we were adapting in a way that maybe wasn't the best for us. And we're all in limbo. Exactly. We have to reclaim that, we have to bring again that reflection element and just being— asking ourselves, what can I control? That would be my question I want to ask people is, what can you control around your environment and your working hours? Then what you cannot control, that's when you can get back to setting boundaries. And communication is so key as well. Do you know what, it was quite interesting, um, a part of the book that I was reading over the weekend, and a friend of mine was talking about her lethargy, and I was like, you're in your lounge gear, aren't you? She's like, yes, of course you're going to be lethargic. Seriously, you've got to pretend that, you know, you've got to dress for the kind of attitude you want and the kind of mindset that you want. And it's— we've— I've realized now that sometimes when I'm just kind of bubbling below the correct line, I need to get myself in proper clothes and I need to whack on some red lipstick even though I'm just in the house. And it is, it is all mindset-based, isn't it? I mean, I love what you mentioned there because it reminds me of another very powerful thing that is just your body language. Just to give you an idea, that's obviously maybe a bit less about where you're sitting, but again, example, Whenever I record an interview, including this one, I'm usually standing up. I got two, I'm extra, I got two desks. I'm wearing our, we are literally in the living room/kitchen though. So again, it's not like I have a really fancy room, it's that room, but I have, we have two desks. And so one of them has got a standing setup and that just helps me. And for example, you know, when I'm doing workshops as well, which I do a lot, or coaching calls or consulting calls, which I do a lot. I'm always standing up. And that's a simple example of, by doing that, I know that I'm awake, I'm alert when I'm doing, you know, when I am here to lead or here to share or here to elaborate concepts, because I want to make sure that I'm being at my best and then people can feel that energy. And obviously this is for me, for others, but it's also for myself. So realizing what you can do to hype yourself up. To keep yourself awake. It doesn't include coffee, which I still love, but you know, the different things, you know, the little thing that we can do that will make a difference. And I think it's just a reminder that even our body language, even some of the small choices that we make. And as I said, I literally have, and it's a running joke sometimes, I have the kitchen next to me, which means sometimes if I'm doing a call and I'm thirsty, you can see me opening the fridge door and people are like, what is she doing? And I get the next bottle of water, I'm like, hello. So, you know, we have to adapt to what we have. I mean, I think this past year has been adapting to what we have. But as I said, there are the little things that we can do that are in our control that can really change completely our state, our energy levels, our focus. And we talked about cycles before, and this is another reminder that we have to work with those cycles. And if we need to encourage ourselves to be a bit more awake after a big slump, then we can find ways to do that as well. But self-awareness is kind of key here as well. Yes. And as you say in, in towards the end of the book, I think it's actually in the conclusion, you know, Reclaim Your Time Off is something that should be re-read again and again whenever it's needed because, you know, we are not back in the '50s and '60s where we made a decision and we stuck with it for 50, 60 years. We live in quite a transitional world. We can change who we want to be and how we want to be, and our life circumstances can change quite often. So we, we quite often kind of need to do a bit of an overhaul of who we are and what our priorities are, you know, every few years, if not more. I agree. And it's also a reminder that our values will change you're gonna value adventure, let's say, for the next 2 years, but then maybe you're gonna stand and then change your values from a personal perspective because you're gonna have a family, and so, you know, family will become king and community, for example. And I always like to ask people, I talk a lot about the concept in the success and mindset side of the book, which is as important, as I said, as all the tips and the practical things, You need to look at them and then almost weigh them against your professional values, the ones that potentially you chose, but most likely somebody else chose for you as well, quite interesting, especially if you work for somebody else. Sometimes you have them, but you realize actually something that society has stirred your way. And once you realize that, you can actually see how your values are clashing or complementing each other's. And they, as you rightfully mentioned, they will change. And if we don't take that time to reflect on where we're going, there's a very interesting chat, actually a conversation we had yesterday. Yesterday, at time obviously of chatting now, was the book launch. So we had a bit of a reflection afterwards. It's like, how are you feeling? I was like, ah, but also, you know, what, what's come up for me as well, you know, through the process of actually talking about the book.. And I realized that a lot of us, at the beginning of the book I talk about when was the last time you stopped to smell the roses, because a lot of us, yeah, you remember that, I think a lot of us think, okay, yeah, I will think about reclaiming my time or being less busy, I don't know, tomorrow, next week, I will reassess my values next month, in a year, not now. And usually if the reason is because I'm not ready or because I'm happy where I am, that's fine, excellent. But all the time it's because I am working towards something for later. And there always has to be an element of planning, don't get me wrong, but also if we keep chasing happiness as if it's a destination, if we keep chasing freedom as if it's a destination, you might actually get the proverbial carpet, you know, swept under you because we never know when— I mean, this is going to a very deep level which I talk about in the actual extract, that I mentioned. We never know when our last day is going to be. We never know how many tomorrows are we going to have. And I had a couple of experiences that really reminded me of that. And I think that was when I said, why can I not reclaim a bit of my time now? Why can I not build these memories now instead of waiting until I'm 50, 60, 40 to have more of that time? Why can I not find something that is closer to that balance that I want to achieve? We all have time where we have to push. But if you can actually, after that time, remember to pull back, that is also balance in itself. And I think that's a very great reminder when people are like, why should I do it now? Because if not now, then when? If you're not happy now, then now is the right time for you to make a change. Yeah. And you know what? You did a perfect quote for that chapter as well that I loved, and I know I'm going to be regurgitating it over the next few days. Yes, time does fly by really quickly, but the good news is you're the pilot. I really like that quote. Yeah, I loved it too. It was one of those ones where you read it and you're like, yeah, I should probably Instagram that. But then I'll go, no, no, I'm distracted, I've got to come off social media. Oh, you know what, I'm a sucker for quotes, so I would understand that. I would do that exact same thing. I was like, oh, I'm gonna use that one, I like that one. It's kind of nice when you have like a short sentence that encapsulates something that we know because we know, right? Yeah. But, you know, sometimes we forget that we have an element of control and it can be small. Let's say you got 3 kids in a house with 3 rooms and you're trying to, I don't know, and you're trying to do a full conference again, for example. What are you going to do about it? There's still something that you can control.— it might not be all of your environment, but if you can think about what you can control and how you can find compromises and find ways to help yourself, then you feel a bit more empowered. Because when you start feeling powerless, that's really where it's hard for you to make any changes, because you don't feel like you have the tools needed to do that for yourself. And bizarrely, now I've gone through a little bit of a roller coaster journey reading about your section on to-do lists, because, you know, I thought I used to feel quite powerful when I had a to-do list and I'd smashed through them, be like, yes, nailed it! There's 10 things on that list and I've completely done it. I'm like, yay, I'm great! But then, as you kind of pointed out, that sometimes we're just filling up these to-do lists of things to make us feel like we're busy. So that we— and they're really easy things that we can get done, and they're sometimes a distraction, aren't they, from actually doing the things that you're supposed to do. And I was thinking, oh no, I've been messing this up all the way through. I thought I was like smashing out the park doing these to-do lists and completing them. And then you turned it all around about 3 chapters later when you said, actually, the smaller to-do lists, they give you momentum because you feel successful and like you're doing really well, and then you tend to you know, when you're on a roll, you carry on going. So there's different ways that we can also, we can be real powerful about how we do our day and how we get through what we need to get through. But I was like, I was going, to-do lists, big ones, small things on it, is it good or is it bad? And it was like, it was a little roller coaster for me while reading Reclaim Your Time Off. But I take it you're a to-do list fan? You know what? I actually, I talk about a bit in the book about the fact that I think to-do lists are just flawed in themselves because of the way that you mentioned that. You mentioned that actually, I smashed everything. This is an awesome day. And then the day after you're like, I got one thing done. Life sucks. And then you just kind of like hide in a little corner and then the violins come out and all of that. When we associate success with the to-do list, that's what I'm like, I really don't like you. However, I think there's a place. I mean, I have a to-do list. I'm not going to tell you just, you know, again, Pat, burn your notebooks. I like a notebook. I'm not going to tell you to burn a notebook, but we also need to be aware that when again, the to-do list is running us instead of us running it, that's where the issues come because then what happens is We, first of all, I talk about time dysmorphia in the book. We always, or at least 80% of the time, underestimate how much time it takes us to take one task. I don't know if you actually started to look at that or think about that after you read the book, but so many times we assume we're gonna take 5 minutes to do something. It never takes us 5 minutes. So already our to-do list is not based on that. It's based on what we think we should be doing on any given day. This is why to me it's good to know what you have to do and to be able to read it. To me, the biggest pet peeve that I have around to-do lists is the actual— excuse me— the actual deadlines. You know, when you're setting deadlines for yourself, when you're actually allocating specific times for them, because that urgency can be good and positive. But again, we vastly underestimate how much we can get done in a day. So what that creates is more anxiety. It's a lot more pressure. So there are things that you can do. And one of my favorite things is actually switch for at least one day, just to try it, from a to-do list to a done list. This helps in two ways. One, you feel more accomplished. Two, it brings a lot more awareness. So a lot of my clients, I actually get them to strip back their to-do list when it comes to deadlines and things you're going to get done in a day, introducing a done list just for a short period of time to bring awareness on what they actually get done during the day. And then you go back to what Gary Keller talked about in The ONE Thing, almost having the one thing you want to do on that day that is incredibly important and needs to be done. And then everything else becomes more like, almost like a ranking system where you will then go through the different things depending on obviously what you're focusing on on that day. But if you don't get everything done, it's fine. If you don't get everything done, you are knowing that nevertheless, you still had a successful day. Because otherwise, literally, once again, you hand over all of the control about what success means for your day, not even to a person, but to a bloody tool or a notebook. And I don't think that's the healthiest way for us to look at introducing everyday success in our workdays. I think a lot of that is, it's really, it's quite scary for some of us because the ranking part that I was reading, I was thinking, oh my, that's brilliant. Yeah, of course I should do it. But then I know if I sit down and rank my to-do list or what I need to be doing in importance, I then feel quite bad that I was doing all the things that were lower down. And sometimes we realize that we put off the most important things for whatever reasons, and we sometimes don't want that to come into our consciousness. So there's a lot of bravery involved in addressing the issues that we're potentially going through. But you know, you don't get anything done if you don't try and you've got to put yourself out there a little bit, haven't you? You mentioned something in there actually, which I think is really important. We tend to do not what's most urgent, but what's easiest or what's fastest in our head. So it's kind of like, this is urgent because I need to get it done and it's gonna only take me 5 minutes. And that's the most important task of the day, which is again, for example, writing a proposal, something that usually even I look at it, I'm like, oh, okay, I'll do it. And we're going to push it away because it's easier to send a simple email or it's easier to respond to a colleague's message or it's easier to, again, post on Instagram, God knows whatever you're doing. And so, as you said, it takes a lot of bravery. I like that you used that word. And it also takes just letting go of our ego just for a touch. Which is hard, don't get me wrong, it's really hard. And again, appreciate that, especially when we're working from home or remotely, and maybe we're not in the office every day, or even we work for ourselves, it's even worse. We talked about end of day rituals earlier. There is not really a right time for you to end the day, unless you say, "I'm gonna end the day at 5 or 6 or 7." So you have to be honest with yourself and understand that the first and most important way for you to start setting a time for you to really stop working is to actually allow flexibility within your list and within what you have to get done. Because by writing this book and by having people read it, I'm not assuming anyone is already a master in managing their time. Hell, I'm not a master at managing my time. I got much better because I taught a lot of people how to do that. So I actually learned from my mistakes and theirs. And that's kind of how I've been improving and getting better by loads of time. But so many of us have been told what to do for a long, long time or asked, you know, to focus on specific things. And because of working from home and remotely, a lot of us have been left to our own devices, which meant we actually had to make a lot of those decisions ourselves for the very first time. So whatever feels a bit scary, it's probably a good thing that you do it because it's going to give you a lot more power. And then the evil to-do list is going to look much smaller and less frightening the next time you tackle it and either rank it or clean it or simplify it. It's gonna feel a lot, lot less scary, I promise. Good. I wanted to hear that. And also something else that I— there's something I really want to ask you because this is something that I'm going to start trying to do every single day and bring it into just my daily practice is, yes, if you've got through your to-do list, yeah, it's a successful day, but what we need to acknowledge how we measure success and, and what we think is a successful day to us. Now, what would be a successful day to you? If one thing you could have achieved in a day, what would that be? I guess That would be, I guess, I mean, that's a very powerful question. That's why I also think about it can be a great one to ask. I think it really does depend as well. First of all, again, it's another one of those big simple questions, but big questions because it almost means you have to put all of your eggs in that one basket and be like, if that's the one, you know, what is the one thing you're like, oh, you know, and then if you're not super happy with it, like again, book launch, I'm like, well, if I'm not super happy with I don't know, the book launch party or whatever, then does it feel that the day wasn't successful? So again, it's also removing that ego when we're asking that question. The other way to actually, you know, be able to answer that question is to know at the beginning of the day or the previous day, if for example, you actually prefer to plan the day before, which is excellent as well, get clear on what is the one thing that you can do on that day to really help you getting closer to your goals or your targets or whatever that might be. So that, that you're basically starting the day with the idea, okay, this is the thing I'm going to do. And this is what's going to help me, whether it's because it's going to save me time and make me money, save me money, again, meet targets, whatever that might be. And then at the end of the day, that, that thing almost comes back, pops back up into your head at the end of the day. And so instead of you having to like scout in the recesses of your brain, all the things that you've done, you already know that you said you were going to do one thing and you bloody went there and did it and you did it excellently so much so that you finished it. And then you kind of give yourself virtual high fives and you do little high fives on Zoom or whatever is your jam. Um, so I believe that it changes for me every day and When I am struggling and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed, what I even do, I cheat a bit and I make it very simple for me to get it done. So then I'm writing an article, you know, and that usually takes me about an hour or an hour and a half depending what I'm writing. So it's not impossible, but I'm like, that is the most important thing I can do. If I get that done, then the rest is all a bonus because you know what it is that's going to give you that awe and to give you that kind of boost, you know. And that's, you know, pretty much what this book is about. It's about understanding yourself and, you know, giving yourself a leg up, making sure you can get the best for yourself by understanding what, how you work and what you need. I mean, you couldn't have said it, I couldn't have said it better myself. You gave it like the full review. I'm enjoying this. That's perfect. Well, do you know what? There's something that I like to ask all of my guests, and I'm really looking forward to asking these couple of questions to you. Um, now One of them is, who do you admire or look up to in the public eye? If you kind of, if you decide that you do want to do a little bit of scrolling and you, you like looking at what somebody has to put up there, whether it's, you know, profound or funny or ridiculous, is there somebody out there you just think, you're a good egg, I like you? You know what, it's hard because first of all, I'm going to be honest, you know, I think, oh, what should— it's really weird, what should I say? No, no, no. Um, you know what I mean? But it happens. I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you, sometimes happens. Like, um, by the way, they're not, they're not like really, really bad things. Like, oh yeah, I'm gonna say, you know, like a random account that posts pictures of slots, even if I love slots. So that's always a good one. That's obviously not a person though, so it doesn't help. But no, I was thinking, and actually somebody that I really love, and just because of who they are, the different things they do, for example, which is a bit random, is probably Will Smith. I actually do, you know, it's like one of those things. I also have some musicians that I love because of my background, but again, he comes probably into my head. You know why it does? Also because, as well as all the things that he does, he's also like, he likes, he loves to create, he loves to engage with his community, and I find that it's such a nice thing. And he is genuinely funny and he's genuinely a nice person and It's a nice reminder that when you do that, that's a really powerful thing to do. And I'll give you one more person. And the other person is Amanda Palmer, which came back into my head after I wrote a piece about the art of asking myself. Her book is called The Art of Asking. It's an excellent book. Old, but excellent. I'm right there. Check it out. I think you're going to love it. She also narrates the audiobook, which is always a plus. She's a singer and she's amazing. She's Neil Gaiman's wife as well.. And, um, and, uh, she is honest, she's truthful, she is, uh, always devoted to her community and service and show up for people. And also she's a creative. So yeah, another bonus. So I think these two people, I would say, um, Will Smith also for enjoyment and fun, but Amanda Palmer also is a great reminder of what it means to connect to people truthfully online. I don't know whether you've seen it in the last couple of weeks, because I love Will Smith as well, but he's been posting his post-pandemic body showing people, you know, how everybody else is like, oh my God, I want to get beach ready. Look at my abs, I'm amazing. And he's like, nah, it's all hanging out. I've just kind of eaten a bit too much. I've not been able to go to the gym. I've been lethargic. And he kind of encouraged all these kind of blokes of roughly the same age in between 40 and 55 to post pictures of their body just going, yeah, you know, I'll sort it out. But, you know, that's just me and it is me and I'm happy and I'm still here. And I thought, you know what, that was so sweet. I think there's a lot of pressure right now, especially as obviously in the post-pandemic world, we can call it, there's a lot of pressure everywhere, especially online, to actually know this is what I need to do next. This is what I need to improve next. This is what I need to change next because the world is reopening. That's literally the pressure that we have. And I think if we cut ourselves a bit more slack and we're just like, we are, whether it's my brain, my body, or both, we both survived this. And this was, you know, I say 2020 was a 2020 of a year. 2021 also gave us really good things to talk about. No, don't get me wrong, but both the years have been really tough. And I think if we put a bit less pressure on ourselves, and we actually thank our brain, our bodies for just holding on to us and ourselves for the little things that we did to keep ourselves mainly sane. You know, there's enough pressure outside in the world. So I think it's really important to remember not to put the pressure on ourselves as well. Yeah. And I mentioned before that, you know, I was struggling a little bit before the pandemic with burnout, and I was just squeezing too much in, you know, single mum, two kids. I have what we've talked about is, you know, portfolio career, do lots of different things, and we constantly need to juggle. And also being, you know, in the whole blogging and presenter arena, there's certain things that we've got to keep up to on social media, and there's a lot of pressures on that as well. But You know, an average day for me at one point, and just, just pretty much before Christmas, was like, you know, dropping the kids off at school, walking the dog, getting into Covent Garden for 10 o'clock to do a double recording for this show, for Get Booked, um, then going on to a blogging event to make sure that, um, we could get a blog out on— it was a wellness blog— and then I had to get home, pick up my youngest, from football training, cook his dinner, make sure the dog's out again, then get back out to queue because I was doing a thing for the BBC about the lights being switched on, then getting back home for 10 o'clock and making sure that I could pretty much do it all over again. And that was how my days were. And I think it, you know, I'm definitely not the only one. And there was something about us all suddenly having to just stop, that if we take away the horrific part of COVID I think a few of us have wanted to kind of rethink and readjust our priorities. I agree. I think it's, I think it's definitely something that, especially when you take a step back, like, you know, when you have a roller coaster of a day like that, or even a week, it's just almost like stepping back and then be like, okay, What can I prioritize right now? Because as you said, like burnout, one of the things about burnout is that we think that like anything else, it will happen and then we'll know it. But there are the little things that can start telling us, mm, I'm pushing too much, I'm pushing too much. So by bringing a bit more awareness, you can actually, I mean, I personally can now understand whether I'm on the brink of maybe being in a place that I don't want to be. But when we're constantly filling our day with things, How are we going to have the power to actually step back and see that and actually acknowledge that for ourselves? Yeah, and this is what this book is about. It's about trying to acknowledge what we were doing, what we were doing wrong, how we should change things, get the most out of our life and not risk going back to burnout. Because also, you know, it's not just a case of, oh, you're working too hard, you should stop. No, because you're exhausted, so you're not dealing with relationships properly. And then there's the guilt of that, and it's kind of all-encompassing, isn't it? So it's not— reclaiming your time off, it's not about just about a work balance, it is work-life, because everything has to work. There's no point having a fantastic job that you absolutely love with lots and lots of money if everything else is crumbling around you. I think there's also something in there very briefly that is the fact that we think like work is not part of life, and that's why I talk about work-life balance always a bit bittersweet. I actually mention it in the book because it's a bit of a weird relationship for me because work is part of life. Yeah. So for different people, you will balance work and life in different ways. Some people like to have a lot of work because they enjoy that, and then it means that maybe they're gonna make more time in the weekend, but they're happy to work long hours. Some people are like, actually, I do enjoy working, but I also want to take, I don't know, 3 hours to work every day, and then the rest I want to be able to explore, adventure, family, whatever it is So work-life balance to me is a bit of a myth. It's more about life balance and actually balancing everything in your life. Because if we assume that work can only be half our— imagine it as a wheel, okay? If we imagine the work-life balance means there is a 50/50 split, then it means that for everyone, work should be 50% of our time and energy and everything else should be the other 50%. But there might be people that don't want to live it that way. And whichever way they want to live it, then it reminds us that there are so many other things we need to fill our pie with, or our wheel with. Then, you know, we might decide that work is going to take a smaller cut, and that is totally fine because it has to work for you. And this is what Reclaim Your Time Off is trying to, is trying to help you figure out. And I just want to point out to our listeners that they can pop onto fabgiovannetti.com where you have lots and lots of resources on there as well, don't you? Yes. That's the website kind of tells you a bit more of what I do as well. So it talks about the book, but it also talks about the different podcasts I host. It talks about the different companies I run and different ways, obviously, you can get in touch and connect and get more ideas on how to reclaim your time as well. As well as obviously baby book, which is called Baby Book as well, because it feels like birthing a book and now it's birthed it. So I call it Baby Book. I'm just looking at here as well, you can even get a bundle of 7 marketing templates. So you've got, you've just got, you must be really quite busy. I mean, you, you have to be extremely structured to make it all work and to make sure that you're the best. And you employ people as well, don't you? So you need to make sure that it's not just you that is working smarter. Oh yeah, 1000%. If I, if I'm gonna live by some values, I want to make sure that I can also help my team doing the same. So if I want to be flexible, I need to make sure that my team also feels they can be flexible and work at the best pace for them as well. Now, something that I like to ask all of our guests is for 3 top tips on wellbeing. But what I'm going to do for you, and I hope this is okay, is if you could give 3 tips to anybody and everybody to say, if you're going to start somewhere, start with these 3 tips on reclaiming your time off, what would they be? Excellent question. I can still give you a spin of wellbeing because that's totally fine, just to keep it in line. So 3 tips to start reclaiming your time off. Okay, first of all, have time snacks. Something I don't talk about in the book because that's, that's new. That might be like baby book number 3, I guess. But so have time snacks. A lot of people are like, I cannot reclaim my time, I'm too busy. And I'm like, well, if you're too busy, then you need to get this book because you need to reclaim your time anyway. But if you're struggling, have time snacks. So instead of thinking about big long breaks, try to fill your day with intentful— intentful? Intentional. That's the one. Intentional. Um, I can't say the word. Intentional breaks. What is the word? Seriously, that's the foreigner brain that sometimes kicks in. So intentional breaks, that's the one. So it can be purposeful. That's why I was trying to say purposeful. So the purpose can be literally also making a snack. It can be going out for a walk. It can be doing a short workout or a mini meditation, but have a couple of time snacks that you can actually block in your calendar. If you're struggling, that will really help you start understanding a bit of that balance. And creating a habit through your breaks. So that's tip number 1. Tip number 2, I would say we talked about it, but I would reiterate it, um, end of work ritual is definitely a game changer because it will start helping you creating boundaries for your workday as well. And lastly, I would say, would my tip would be, which I talk about in the book of how to do that, so I'm not gonna I don't wanna maybe tell you too much right now, but definitely set boundaries in your emails because it's one of the biggest sabotages. And I think especially if you're trying to reclaim your time and you are in any way, shape, or form contacting people via email for your work, that is pretty much the bottomless pit of everyone's attention and focus. So if you can set boundaries, that is great. The easiest way to do it is to actually set times for you to check your emails.. But in the book, I talk about other things that you can do to help you be more mindful and intentional about your email time. So we have time snacks, end-of-day ritual, and boundaries in your inbox. And I think they are all, they're all excellent. The second one is the one that seems so incredibly simple and common sense, and yet that's the one that I've been embracing this week. And kind of getting my friends to embrace it as well, and just the boundaries of work head and finishing work head and how you can physically embody that as well. And, you know, when I've been feeling lethargic and really struggling to just get some work done or get my emails done or to edit up a particular podcast or something like that, I sometimes just had to go into my wardrobe and put on a dress. I know it's ridiculous, but I just had to feel like I was actually going into an office and doing it. I love that idea. I think, I think it's, again, it's because as you say, it's actually something that you do and that you embody, it makes such a difference. So I think it's a great actually way to potentially think about what the ritual will look like for you as well. And yeah, and I just, I must say I've loved reading the book. I can't wait for the next one. I'm hoping that at some point we'll be able to open up our studios for Women's Radio Station and Men's Radio Station are in Covent Garden, so we're just trying to keep to regulations as much as possible. So we're not opening up the studio until it's just— we've had completely the green light. And I want to have guests in the studio again, and we're even allowed to start hugging. In a couple of— in what, a week or so? So that's going to be exciting, isn't it? I want to see people actually trying to remember how to hug people as well, or how to kind of like, which way? What? I think that's going to be a thing. I mean, I live with my fiancé, so we definitely hug a lot, but it's one of those things where you're like, how do I interact with humans? How do I actually touch them without feeling like, I just want to touch you? It doesn't really kind of go down really well. So yeah, how can I do it without creep. I think that's going to be a very interesting development for a lot of us. And there's also some people that are still not— people weren't comfortable with it to start off with, but it's just trying to figure out if we weren't always, you know, especially in Britain, you know, a load of awkward people, and now we're just adding another layer of awkwardness. Am I allowed to hug you? I just, I don't know. I think there's going to be a lot of hugging going on over the next few weeks. I hope so as well, to be honest. Again, I'm Italian, so to me, by default, the idea of actually hugging and touching people, it's how we communicate a lot of the time as well. And you actually get, like, the pheromones from it as well, and that's what we've been missing. That's why, you know, there's been a lot of people that have been upset and struggling with their mental well-being because of physical contact. I mean, the majority of my physical contact has been with my two boys, and they basically, they're just great big fart machines. It's not been great. I mean, yeah, that sounds like it could be quite a dangerous thing, especially after specific meals when you're like, maybe I don't want to hug you right now because something might come out. I'm good, I'm good, it's fine. Get back to me tomorrow. But do you know what, I thoroughly love chatting to you, Fab, and I think you've brought together some excellent processes for people to reclaim their time off and reclaim their time back and just understand themselves. I think there's nothing, there's no better gift we can give to ourselves than to understand ourselves. And because if we understand ourselves, we can just be the best we can be. And I've loved reading the book. I mean, it's twice its size now because we've got so many pages that are turned back, and I do plan on reading it again. Again, I'm sure many other people will as well. And just as a quick reminder to all our listeners, um, Fab Giavanetti, Reclaim Your Time Off: The 3-Step Solution to Overworking, a practical guide for managing your time by mastering your mindset. It's a fabulous book, and I'm so thankful that you came on Get Booked today. Thank you so much for having me. It was absolutely fabulous— pardon again— to be here and chatting to you. And hopefully we'll get to chat again when you bring out book number 3 and 4 and 'cause I know you're gonna be keeping on writing. You said it, you know it really well, it's gonna happen, it's down to the universe now, I love that. Thank you so much, Fab, and enjoy the rest of your day. I'm Hazel Butterfield, and you've been listening to Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station, opening discussions and offering support via the incredible writing community out there. Come and join us, get involved, And if you want to catch up on any previous shows, you can at womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked and on our SoundCloud. For more book reviews and to find out a little bit more about me, you can pop onto my website at hazelbutterfield.com. And if you have a book coming out and you particularly potentially want to come on the show, please do get in touch with me at hazel@womensradiostation.com. Thank you for listening.