Hello, and welcome to womensradiostation.com. I’m Dr Annette Greenwood, life coach and author, and this show is called Dr Annette Greenwood Talks. Today, I’m talking about bouncing back from tough times. And my guest is Lynn Smith, aptly nicknamed Froggy, after her passion for frogs and business model, lay frogs.

Before I bring Lynn in for the interview, I’d like to give the listeners a bit of a picture as to why we are doing this interview. When your life changes beyond recognition from being at the top of your game, as a successful business woman with a lifestyle that many people can only dream about, then to have that taken away in the blink of an eye. How do you come back from that? How do you piece your life together when everything you work for has gone, the house, the money, everything, and do you find yourself behind bars serving a prison sentence? What does that do for your mental health and your dignity and your self-esteem? And the big question, how do you find forgiveness and come back from such a difficult situation? I got so many questions that I want to ask Lynn.

So now I’d like to invite Lynn in and to say welcome to womensradiostation.com. Welcome to the show. Are you okay? Are you well? And are you happy to do this interview? Yes, I am. It’s lovely to talk to you again, isn’t it? And I’m quite happy to tell my story.

Wonderful. So I’m sure there’s so many questions that I’ve got that we could go on and on and on all night, but we’ve only got an hour. So what I’d like to ask you to begin with is the first thing that I was talking about is, you know, the lifestyle that you had that only people can dream about.

I mean, that is something so far removed that some of us, you know, we can’t dream about it because you wouldn’t realise it was possible. But for you, it was possible. You had a business that was successful for I think it was over 20 years.

So what happened? What changed? What was it that led you down a different path altogether to serving a prison sentence? Well, I began my business in 1992. I had an idea with a little frog. I always collected frogs, not the ones that you eat, obviously, but the little ornaments.

And I was looking for a direct my life in a different direction. And how it started, as all things do in my life, very simply. And I was having a Christmas lunch with my daughter, Michelle, and a little cracker fell out of a little frog, sorry, fell out of the cracker.

And out of her cracker was a compass. So basically, that told me two things. An idea that I had thought about was to introduce some leisure wear, incorporating these little froggy characters.

So that sort of made me decide I would have a go. So very simply sat around the table in my kitchen, discussed it with my two daughters, probably after about an hour or so, we’d actually come up with a plan. My eldest daughter, she sort of sketched the initial four characters.

And then my youngest daughter, she created the logo. So it was a real family effort. And that’s where I started very simply.

And luckily, I met an amazing lady who helped me. She had an embroidery business. So we made a good team.

And initially, really, the business started with just promotional polo shirts and sweatshirts and hoodies with all these little different froggy characters that you could relate to a basically a McDonald hamburger. And it just took off. I just didn’t really where to begin.

And I had a couple of lovely girls who didn’t work during the daytime, and they just went out and found customers. So moving on from that, over the next two years, we sort of had about nearly 200 froggy characters, but of all sorts of walks. So that was really a simple way of starting.

It’s just one of these things. I had a fantastic team. Never had more than six in my team.

And these girls and then a young lad joined us as well. We used to basically go to customers. And all of a sudden, I found myself in a retail shop, which I took on Albert Dock.

And then from that, that extended into some larger departmental stores. And I had concessions in there. And then I went on from there.

And I was very lucky to be approached by somebody who had a manufacturing company that supplied Marks and Spencers. So I worked with the team there. And I’m very proud to say that we had merchandise in Marks and Spencers.

And they made a number one and number two bestseller in children’s wear. So that was a really good progress. I think in total, that probably took 10 years to get from start to finish.

Very enjoyable business. Very nice team. Met just dealt with lovely people and everything was fine.

And then I went on from there. I expanded on the, I became a licensed all, not knowing at all what a license or was at that stage. But I soon learned and I then finished up with merchandise in, well, obviously Marks and Spencers and then many other retail outlets.

And, you know, I was well on the way, sorry, well on the way to the brand being well known. And so I sort of carried on, still carried on with the promotional side because I did really like that. I liked the whole business, but I just loved working closely with the customers.

And then after that, well, what happened? A couple of things happened. One thing was that I was approached by a very large company to basically not take the business over, but to do a joint venture, which I was thinking was a good move forward because it would take the brand overseas as well. That didn’t materialise, unfortunately, because the company that I was dealing with actually sold their company.

And I sort of didn’t really, I wasn’t able to proceed with that particular company. So I was back to the drawing board almost. And then I went from there.

My daughter and my son-in-law worked with me in the business. They got married. And so, but they still worked for me in the company.

But I’d actually got involved with visiting Wales at weekends. And I decided at that time I would buy a little an apartment on a marina so I could spend weekends there, which I did being on my own. I found some nice friends there.

I was away from the business at weekends. And that was probably the biggest mistake in my life, not moving to Wales, because I actually love Wales. But I did move all the business to Wales eventually.

And I worked from Wales. And then what happened was I sort of became involved very much so and went from strength to strength. I opened a retail shop.

I bought an embroidery company. We were moving on at a pace of knots, to be honest. But then it came to my attention from one of my staff that we’d been really caught up in a very malicious anonymous blog.

And basically, they have to say that everything came crashing down and put me in a very difficult position. So from a Christmas cracker of an idea, you’ve taken all those years to build up this business and this brand. And then after all that time, everything comes crashing down because of a malicious blog.

I’m not asking you to go into detail about that. Not at all. But are you happy to share what happened as a result of the blog? Yes, absolutely.

I was approached very early one morning by some investigators. It wasn’t the police matter. It was some investigators that dealt with business.

And they appeared at my door at 715. And they were the police lady who said it was not a police matter. And that these people wanted to ask me some questions, which they did.

And I answered. And I was very nervous about it all, because obviously, I didn’t know why they were there. I was very naive.

I’ll take my hat off to that. I should have gone into it a bit more, but I didn’t. And I answered the questions.

But everything they said was word for word from this blog, which I did point out. Anyway, that was left at that. And then that went on actually for two years.

There were several court appearances, which I didn’t have to attend. But there was no evidence of any wrongdoing. But I, being myself as I am, I was also involved at the time with a very, very big massive deal, which I’d worked on for over 12 months with a corporate company.

And I put everything on hold. I think I panicked. My family were devastated because we all worked together as a team.

And it was a very hard, hard two years. Then all of a sudden, despite having not sort of been really accused of anything, only other than what I was accused of, then I finished up and it went to a proud court, to be honest. And it was horrendous because the jury basically didn’t have a clue of what my type of business was about.

And anyway, I was, I was found guilty. And I was consequently sent to prison, which was devastating, obviously. It was very sad, very sad for my children.

Very sad for family. Very sad for people that I loved and employed for years. It was very unfair.

But that was the story. So I was sent to prison. And it was like a bit of a miscarriage of justice, Lynne, from your perspective, from what you’re saying.

You’ve gone through all the hopes. You’ve presumably provided any evidence that was requested of you or required of you. I’m guessing you had representation at court.

Yes, I did. Yeah, it was a miscarriage of justice. And I didn’t know what it was all about, to be honest.

They accused me of things that weren’t true. They brought people to court and really didn’t give any sort of detrimental things about me. Obviously, they were sort of put into a direction which happens in court.

But I think the saddest thing was I had 12 perfectly good witnesses, people I’d worked with for years, and none of them were allowed to come to court to give evidence. And that obviously included my accountant, who I’d worked with for years. I don’t know why that was.

I don’t know why I appeared in court. I don’t know why I was sent to prison. All I know is that is what happened.

And that’s when my empire really crumbled. It crumbled probably two years before that, because I gave up really, I was heartbroken. I didn’t really want to be dealing with people financially because I was under investigation at the end of the time.

But the only comforting thing I can say about that is I wasn’t the only victim of this block. There was over a thousand other people, and it was anonymous for seven years, who it actually was. So it was just very unfortunate that I was a target.

I didn’t know the people, and they didn’t know me. And so it wasn’t a very good experience, but there you go. So yeah, and I mean, kind of we can, I mean, I’ve known you for some time.

And I knew you when you came out of prison, and I was one of the people who tried to help coach you back, help to help you bounce back from your tough time. But I can only imagine what you must have been feeling at this point. Because as you say, your whole life, everything’s come crashing down, hasn’t it? So how were you coping and dealing emotionally with the possibility? I’m asking you this question, really.

At any point did you think that you might go to prison? At any point in this, while this was all going on in that two year period, did it ever cross your mind that you might go to prison? Or did you think it would just all be sorted out? And you would go back to normal again, you know, your business would carry on. What was going on in your head at that time? Well, my solicitor convinced me that the other side hadn’t got the case. So I couldn’t understand how they got the case.

It was all third party information. And this third party, we didn’t really know who was giving the information. So I don’t know, it was like a drama in the court.

I just stood there listening to what I was supposed to have done. And I’ll be honest, two days before the summing up, two ladies who were on the jury asked the judge why I was being tried. What was I being tried for? That was two ladies who were on a jury.

I think my barrister said that there were probably two business type of people. And the rest were under 28 on the jury. Judging me, or judging anybody else who’s unfortunate to be in my position.

And that I really felt was very unfair. I thought at least if I was on trial for something, let people who know my business inside out, be the judges, not somebody who doesn’t understand. And then unfortunately, my case went over five weeks, being two days here, then stopped for a week, and then a bit more.

The judge was brought out retirement. It was horrendous. But saying that, what’s done was done.

So I had to deal with it. And I think I dealt with it actually quite well in the circumstances. When I came through the shock of it all, I was actually taken to prison.

Then I was not in a good place for a while. And the person that I met who greeted me was obviously the vicar, the priest, who was amazing. And I’ve got to say, everybody was amazing to me.

I was treated well. And yes, it was difficult. I felt more from a family than I did myself.

But I knew that when I came through the shock of it, I thought, okay. And then I met, obviously, you meet the girls, don’t you? And I knew that I could help. While I was in there, I knew I could give something to these girls with my experience and people’s skills and what have you, which I think I’d found through life.

And I can actually tell you now, I won’t say it’s the best experience of my life, but it’s the most interesting experience of my life, to know how sad life can be for so many people, why they finish up in custody. And it’s very, very sad. So I actually felt that I could help these people and I did.

And really, my case wasn’t really a criminal matter. So I was able to have a few things that I could help with the girls that they couldn’t have. So what did I do? I set up missing clubs, teaching them how to make beads.

Some of them couldn’t read and write, so I’d help them there. It was very interesting. I’m not going to say anything other than that, that there’s a lot of people in prison that shouldn’t be there.

That’s all I can say, because they’re poor souls and they need alternate help, I think. But I coat with it. I think I coat with it.

I used to put my makeup on every day. I was cheerful. I’d help out where I could.

I came editor of the magazine and interviewed some of the stuff and the girls. I went to the gym, lost some weight. And actually, this is where you come in, because you are the most, and I will say this on there, you are amazing, because you don’t realise how good you are and how people like you can do things for people like me.

But as you know, I started writing a book, which I was allowed to do. And it was almost done in, I suppose, like a diary form, really. I actually wrote to Geoffrey Archer, because I’d read his books and asked him how he coped.

And he did write back to me on two occasions and sort of gave me some tips on what to do. So I did. I followed his instructions.

So when I actually met up with you, when I eventually came from prison, I think I’d written half the book. And you encouraged me beyond all encouragement to carry on writing, think positive, and you became such a good friend, you even helped me get my book published through a colleague of yours. So for that, I thank you.

Oh, Lenny. You know, it’s lovely to hear that the involvement that I had with you, with my background as a life coach, my whole purpose is to help people move from where they are to where they want to be. And I’ve worked on some really tough projects with women in prison, outside in the community.

And as a life coach, it’s not something everybody wants to do, but I wanted to be able to take coaching to people who may never experience it or who may never have the opportunity to find out what it’s like and to hear you say that. It’s very humbling. And I know from the conversations we’ve had, the sort of lifestyle you had, I mean, you’ve mixed with some very influential people, some celebrities, people with a lot of money, with a lot of, as I say, influence, you’ve been on the boats, the yachts, you’ve had a lifestyle that most people could only dream about.

So for that to come crashing down and you take into prison such a big heart that you have done, you’ve turned around a very negative situation into a positive one. You’ve thrown yourself into it and dare I say, embrace the prison system, because when you’re in there, you’re in there, there’s no way out and you’re not coming out until you’ve done your time. But you’ve been in there and you’ve helped and supported other women who you felt were less fortunate than you.

And there isn’t many people who would do that. So I know you’ve done that with a big heart. I also know that people who’ve worn your clothes, people like Princess Diana, when she was alive, wore some of your outfits, didn’t she? So that for you to have that kind of, dare I say again, celebrity status where somebody as well known as Princess Diana was wearing your clothes, and then for you to be in prison, actually coaching other women and helping them learn how to sew, that’s a huge, huge difference, isn’t it? To the lifestyle that you were living, to that.

So how do you feel, do you feel that because you’d had all that business experience and life experience and being trapped the way you were, that that was able to be reflected in how you supported those women in prison? Oh, yes, I think so. But I mean, I’ve always really liked helping people. I think I’ve always looked after people.

I’ve always looked after anybody who’s worked with me. And that’s probably in my nature. But I think really, you can sink or swim with the prison situation.

You we all hear horrible things about what happens to people who can’t cope in prison, or you’d be positive. I found that I was probably very much in the minority being positive, if I’m honest. And I met other ladies who were similar to me, I say now they shouldn’t have been in there, but they were in there.

And they weren’t as positive as me, they have given up some of them. But I did my best. And we, you know, it’s just a very difficult situation, because until any of us are in it, we don’t know how we cope.

I mean, my daughter says she could never cope, but she could cope, because she would be like me, because she’s a kind person. I think it’s just your personality, doesn’t really change. Yes, it’s very upsetting.

But it didn’t really affect me, because I think people get this impression of what’s going to happen when you go to prison. And quite frankly, that isn’t how it works. I mean, if you’re okay, but then you’re treated okay, if you’re not okay, well, then it’s a bit different.

But the majority of people like myself, well, you just have to get on with it. And it doesn’t give the right perspective when you see how it really was, because there’s so many opportunities in the prison from, you know, in all walks of life. And the opportunities are there.

But again, the same as being positive, or not positive, the chances are there if you want them. So it’s just about life, really, you’ve got to think you do sink or swim, I don’t think there’s any in between. I do keep in touch with four ladies, four ladies out of probably, I think, 880 that I met over the time.

And I’ve got to be honest, one has, well, she wouldn’t mind me saying, but she’s a poor, poor soul now. She’s not come back from it. One has become an accomplished author, who is amazing.

And the two that I’m so proud of are young girls who were both in prison for one job related and one something else. Anyway, they, I’m still in touch with them. 10 years later, one married three children, the other one got a lovely little girl and a partner, which unfortunately didn’t work out.

But they both kept themselves out of prison. And they haven’t gone back to what they admitted that they’d been involved in, you know. So that really gives me a good feeling that did I help them? They say I did.

I believed in them. And I was there and I felt, because, you know, I was 64 when I went to prison, and I wasn’t a chick, you know, I think I was the oldest one at the time. And you always sound like a young chick to me, Lynne, whether you’re every 60, 70s or beyond.

I’m still very all going on. But I think, but I found that they had so much respect for older people. And it was, well, it’s sort of institutionalized, but I didn’t feel, I did feel bitter about for other people more than me in the way that, you know, some people lost jobs.

And as I say, especially my family who work with me, it was awful for them. But myself, I actually took it on as a bit of a challenge, I think. See, anyway, I could deal with it was to think positive and just think about my brand and it wasn’t out there and it should be out there.

And when I get out of this dumb place, I’m going to get it back out there. That was my mindset. And the book, writing the book, it was just really sort of as things went on, how I was able to express not every day, but what was happening.

There was some actually good times when I was in there, people achieve things, you know, and it’s fascinating. And obviously, my book, it does explain a lot of that. But it’s not doom and gloom.

It’s no point because I’m not a doom and gloom person. So I try to make the best of everything, which is what I did. And I think that’s something very unique about you because your mindset has been the thing that’s helped to get you through there, you know, get to all these, you know, this difficult period in your life.

It must have caused, you know, problems within your family unit, you know, the the losing of everything, it hit them the same way it did you the mum going into prison. And your mindset is the thing that’s kept you going and that positive attitude. And I know that’s a very difficult thing to have in the situation that you were in.

But rather than be a victim, you’ve made yourself victorious. And I mean, I want to talk about the brand in a little while, if I may, but I just wanted to go back a little minute as well into the fact how it did affect your health. It did affect probably your physical health because you had a stroke, didn’t you Len? I did.

Yes, I did. On my release, that was probably three months later. And it was completely sort of out of the blue.

Luckily, I recovered from it. It did leave me with a twitch in my left eye, but the doctors were very kind to me and said I could have Botox because I thought I was winking at everybody. That could be a good thing, or it could be a bad thing.

Well, this is it, you see. Yeah. So I did have the stroke.

That did set me back. That set me back probably eight to 12 weeks. My daughter was very kind and she looked after me.

But I was sitting back up and going again. Nothing really holds me back. And yeah, so that did set me back.

I must admit. And then we had some, you know, not nice things happening in the family. My daughter lost a baby.

A daddy died. We were divorced, but we were great friends. And my son-in-law broke his leg.

It was just a few things all at once, you know. So I actually found that tough in a way to deal with because it was right there. I was with it then from a distance when I was trying to deal with getting on with the life I’d been sort of introduced to.

So yeah, that’s really, and the health wise, that I think sort of I’ve been touched were pretty much okay since then. There’s been a few things, but I think I was very lucky about the stroke because that could have really put me into a sort of a different position because all through that was still determined. I was going to get the brand back out there into the high street.

I didn’t know how I was going to do it. I didn’t have the money to do it. And I didn’t really have this amazing team that I’d always work with around me to do it.

But I knew somehow and at some stage I would do it. But there’s been a few knockbacks, sort of, you know, I looked after my son-in-law’s mum and grandparents. They all got poorly.

So because my daughter and my son-in-law had got back on track with good jobs, I was the one who was looking after them, looking after the little grandson as well, or two grandsons. So I didn’t really, I wasn’t in the right place to be, you know, reintroducing the brand. But in my mind I was.

That was tough. About five years was really tough because I really wanted to do what I was doing. I needed to get the brand back out there to say, hey, despite that, this is what I’ve done.

This is what anybody in my position can do. If I can do it to reintroduce a brand with nothing, basically, but just full of hope and determination, then is that not a good thing for the people who might be in my position? Which is, I think, what kept me going, really? And that’s, we’ve had these discussions. You know, you do an amazing job.

You’ve obviously associated a lot with people who have been in my position. And there’s too much doom and gloom about. If you can give somebody hope, then that’s half the battle, isn’t it? That’s, you know, making somebody feel good.

And unfortunately, I didn’t really have that, only from people outside my family. I’ll be honest. My family, I have told you, not one of them have ever talked to me about my situation.

Not one. Not one person has asked me. No, I think.

Sorry. I was going to say, Lynn, do you think that there might be an element of it being uncomfortable? They don’t want to talk about it because they don’t want to sort of acknowledge, although they probably do acknowledge, the fact that this happened to the mum. It’s a bit like the elephant in the room, isn’t it? That nobody wants to broach it because there’s that stigma around being in prison and there’s no two ways about it.

There is a stigma with it. You know as well as I do, there is. And people struggle to get jobs or get their lives back on track.

And for some people, it never happens. But for you, you have been doing that. You have been getting your life back on track.

But there must be, forgive me for saying, because I’m making maybe an assumption here, but there must be an element of resentment that comes when you come out of those prison gates. So when you actually came out of those prison gates, how was that feeling? Were you feeling elated, happy to be out to see your family? Was it a shock moment because you’d been inside and you were coming on the out? Or was it the fact that you still had that focus, that determination and that tenacity that despite what had happened, that focus was there as you came out of those prison gates to get your life back on track and pick up where you’d left off in some way? Well, when I came out of the prison gates, I’ll be honest, I cried. I cried not for me, but for the ones I’ve left behind.

Because they have been so kind to me. Obviously again, I was the oldest person in there and the majority of, you know, quite young ladies. And they made such a fuss to me.

And they didn’t have to. You know, I was the same as them. We all, everybody’s equal when you’re in there.

And I just felt, I just wanted to take them all home with me, which I know wasn’t possible. The biggest problem is my daughter, my youngest daughter, Mimi and her husband, who really have been amazing. They picked me up.

They picked up the pieces. It was horrendous for them because having all been in the same company, obviously nobody really had any money. So it was just, they were working.

They got the boys, but they were amazing. But I’ll be honest, they were broken by what happened. My daughter will never get over it.

She seems sort of okay now. They were against me bringing the brand back because obviously of what happens, and I understood that. And I used to think, well, am I crazy wanting to do this after what’s happened? But I just needed to do it, you know.

But I did feel for my daughter, especially because she, it was awful for her. She’s a very proud girl. She’s a lovely girl.

And she’s really, really looked after me. I mean, don’t get me wrong, the family, we’ve had party, you know, get togethers sort of. There’s no atmosphere, just nothing gets said, which is okay.

If that’s how people deal with it, they must be shocked. No, I’m not, as far as I know, nobody in our family have ever been in prison. So if you sort of take that into the situation, that must be strange.

I don’t know. I mean, I am very different to the rest of my family. If they’re in trouble, I’d be there.

And that would be, you know, whatever they do, I’d be there. And I think they were there, but at a distance. So that’s really all you can say about that.

But I do offer ones that, you know, they’ve never said anything. But as you say, they could, how do you deal with it? I don’t know. How would I deal with it? I know how I would deal with it.

But my daughter broken. She was, what those people did to me broke her completely. And she can’t talk about it.

She’ll never talk about it. I don’t even think she read the book, to be honest. But we’re okay.

We live next door to each other, actually. And we’re like a team. We do teamwork, but I’m still carrying on.

And actually, I think they’ve given up not wanting me to do it now. They’re actually quite supportive. So it’s sort of gone, you know, going around full circle, really.

So that I’m pleased about, because I felt, well, am I upsetting them by sort of trying to fulfill my ambition? And then I felt, well, what’s the what’s the alternative? I’m on a pension. And I know I’ve got it in me to do more. Why am I not doing more? I don’t want to be reliant on anybody.

I’m very independent. So it’s sort of that side of it’s worked out brilliantly. So for that, I’m pleased.

But I’ll never really forgive what happened for my daughter, not for myself, but for my daughter. Because to see your daughter broken like that is just unbearable. And she’s she’s the one who deserves the medal, not me.

Because she’s been brilliant. But I know she’s been heartbroken. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.

And the the fact that you’ve got a very close knit family with Mimi and her husband says quite a lot. And the hurt that she must be carrying around with her, it must be very difficult to live with that because she’s living with that every day, isn’t she? And there’s nothing that can change that situation from what’s happened. And I firmly believe Lynn that because of the way you are, if you were, I know that you can’t forgive.

And we’ve had this conversation. But I know that because of the way you are, you aren’t holding on to it. You’re not bearing ill will, which is a really not healthy thing to do.

But you’re not bearing in will, you’re not trying to blame anybody else for anything that’s happened, because you are never going to be able to put that right. We both know that all you can do is go from where you are now and go forward. And I think the encouraging thing about you is, and this is this is for anybody who’s listening to this who may have been in this situation or who may be in this situation.

If you can come out the other side of it, with the kind of approach that you’ve got, it will help your family. If you were sat every day crying and saying about, you know, woe is me, I’m a victim. And yeah, just just belly aching about it.

It wouldn’t help them at all, would it? But you’re doing the opposite. And you are, you’re a bit like a phoenix, I think, rising up from the ashes. That might sound a little bit spiritual or whatever, but you are, you’ve, you’ve been pushed down and you’re coming back up again.

And I’m again, I’m so encouraged because we’ve had a recent conversation about the brand and about the book being Lynn Smith. I mean, that’s available for people to buy on Amazon. Anyway, all your details will be be shared with people.

And the full story about your life is in there because who doesn’t want to know more? I do. And I already know a lot, but I want to know more all the time because you’re so interesting because of the things you’ve done and because of the life you’ve led. And you mentioned there about being on a pension.

Now for being used to, you know, going on to yachts or presumably Lynn being able to buy anything you wanted to within reason, to be on a pension and have to shift from living like that to this, there must be some degree of acceptance on your part to do that. Well, you know, I look at myself, I look at these things on TV. I know there’s a lot of things going on, shortcuts, but for somehow I managed to live fine.

I drive a car. It’s not a new car, but it’s a car. I managed to keep it on the road so I can take my grandchildren to school and I can be independent.

I live well. When I say I live well, I eat, you know, eat properly and my bills get paid. I don’t have anything much left, but yeah, I think that you can survive and you can survive very well if you’ve got your mindset.

If you haven’t got your mindset, everything’s a big problem. And I know one particular lady who I, one of the four I met, has told me how she has to like sometimes the mind goes completely blank and she sort of gives up and that’s, and then she sort of picks herself up again. And I think that by me keeping, I’ve got nice clothes because I’ve always had nice clothes because I was in the fashion business and loads of people give you samples and things.

And I’ve always sort of tried to look after myself, which I still do. I haven’t really changed. Somebody did say to me a couple of weeks ago, you’re absolutely no different now than that you were when you were working and, you know, living, if you like, a different lifestyle.

And, you know, I’m not, I’m not any different. I know that. But sometimes I sort of forget that I haven’t got what I used to be able to do, but I am happy.

I’m positive. I’ll help anybody. And I’m determined to get back out there.

So I can’t think, but what I will say is who I’ve got to thank. I’ve got quite a few people to thank, which obviously I can’t tell everybody on here. But a friend of mine who, well, I didn’t actually know as a friend and who was an acquaintance, she knew what happened.

And we, you know, we bumped into each other and she said, what’s happened to your brown froggy? What are you doing with us? She knew what had happened anyway. It was quite popular knowledge in every newspaper because Princess Diana had wall a frog and some other celebrities. So most people knew about it, who I know.

So that was okay. And I just said, well, I’m, I can’t really, because of the situation, I mean, I don’t have the means to do it. And but I am going to do it.

And I said, but I’ve sort of, the one thing I will say is what I did, but I didn’t really think I’d done. I had more or less, I put myself in a bubble, really. I had put a protection around me.

I’m not saying I was, I would say wary, not distrusting, but wary about people who I sort of got involved with or spoke to. And that’s probably quite understandable. But this lady, she said to me, why don’t you join this group of ladies that I belong to? She’d been in a difficult position over a relationship 12 months previously.

And she joined this group. And I think this is a really important thing. She persuaded me to join this group of networking ladies.

And she introduced me to the person who run it. I will name it because I did ask if it was okay to name it. And it certainly is.

This group is called Net Work She. And I believe that they’re all over the UK, but where I’m living in Wales, we’ve got our own group. And I did go along and I’ll be honest, I was really nervous.

I hadn’t ever been to a network meeting before. And I didn’t realize till I got there that you had to basically stand up. Oh, no, you could stand up or you sat down to tell very briefly what you did, you know, what you did business wise and what have you.

And I said to the lady who taught me, I said, well, God, what am I going to say after my checkered career, after what had happened? She said, just say it as it is. Just tell them as it is. Now, I got up and I did not as long as we’re talking, obviously, but I just sort of mentioned what had happened.

And at the end of it, they all stood up and gave me a standing ovation. And they were so kind. And because I’ve been honest, because I am, I’m not ashamed.

I don’t care who knows I’ve been in prison, quite frankly, because I shouldn’t have been there in the first place. But I was. And I’m not going to hide and say I wasn’t when I was.

And through this network, and this we’re talking nine months ago, I have come from strength to strength, thanks to these ladies, because they’ve helped me one in particular, has really, you know, really, really encouraged me and encouraged me and actually helped me to basically get samples done and, you know, redesign everything and what have you. And for her, I’m very grateful. But just before Christmas, they introduced some hoodies and sweatshirts with lovely diamond is the logo on.

And I haven’t really launched it as yet. As we speak, it should be launched next week. But that could change.

But at the moment, but just on the back of knowing these ladies, I sold 45 in less than two weeks. With you know, actually one woman bought four. And that’s it might not seem a lot, but it did actually put me back on track.

And because I’m so proud, and I’ve got the photographs, because everyone who bought one, I said, Can you give me a photograph? So I’ve actually got a little library of all these ladies wearing these hoodies. And so that’s the style. It’s not a big deal, but on the back, again, with these ladies, I’ve been asked to go into a very large outlet with the because the lady actually knew what happened to me because she knew I had a shop and she remembered the brand.

And what she did is she said, I’m going to make it my business, her business, to make sure we get that brand out there. So after March, all being well, I will have a concession in the store. And that is a big breakthrough.

So to me, that’s me back out there. And that’s what was my intention to do. And then on the back of also of the network, she met another lady who’s looking into rewriting my book, the one that is out there at the moment, because obviously, that finished sort of 10, well, five years ago, the book, the my life up to then, but obviously, now I’ve really motored on.

And what I’m really doing is saying, I’m back out there. And on the back of the last book, it’s got to watch this space. So to me, I haven’t done it on my own.

I’ve done it with help. I’ve always everything I’ve done is always been with help. But if I can give anybody, really, you know, I really want people who have suffered like I’ve suffered to say, Okay, even if what what’s happened happened, everything happens for a reason, just believe in yourself, don’t take any notice of people being negative, walk away from negative people, because they just bring you down.

Well, if I can help anybody, they can get in touch with me, I’d be welcome to talk to them. Because I find that that really just help people talking to me is help people like yourself. You’ve always believed in me.

We’ve had some, you know, we’ve had some good conversations. And, and I think, you know, likewise, I like to help people as well. So that’s me really.

Well, then I knew you would always do it. And I knew it would only be a matter of time. And you back out there with a million bells on by the sounds of it.

And the, the idea of us all trying to do things on our own. I mean, you’re an independent, confident woman. I know that.

But sometimes surrounding yourself with people who believe in you, who’ve got different skills that compliment your own, is the thing that actually drives you forward. A lot of people, well, most people I know in business, and I know some really successful people who’ve got coaching businesses over here or in America. And they talk about, you know, they have a team, they have a team, and that team sit around together and discuss things a bit like you did, you know, before the the prison sort of side of it.

And now you’re back on the other side of it, you’ve got a team again of people, a team of women who are supporting you. And that’s that, for me, that’s a little bit of payback, isn’t it? It’s paying it forward, or whether you want to call it karma, or the kindness you’ve shared with other people, that kindness has been shared to you. And one thing I do love about, I love lots of things about you, Lynne, and the way you’ve handled things, but you’ve stayed true to your dream.

And after all these years, as I said earlier, you’ve written, you’ve risen like a phoenix from the ashes. So what words of advice and encouragement? I know you’ve just said some there, but what words of advice or encouragement have you got for anybody else who may be going through a situation, whether it be tough times, emotionally, financially, or otherwise, what bits of advice would you give them to help them not give up and to stand the course and to keep pursuing their dream no matter what? Well, I think the thing is the first and most important thing is never give up. That is easier said than done, because people have to look at their circumstances.

I’m sure we’ve all got a dream. And we’d all like to be doing something. But I do believe that if you really do believe in your dream, never ever just keep away from the negative people, because I found, you know, on my journey, not everybody’s been positive.

Well, why would you want to do that? We know why, why would you want? Why on earth after what happened to you? Would you want, you know, all this? And you think, yes, I could do get that, but no, don’t give up. Try and find help. I think it’s very difficult on your own.

I think anything is difficult on your own, especially if you’ve been used to, you know, working with people and what have you. But you can do it. You can do it if you really am mindset.

But I also think that if you can be involved with these groups such like I’ve joined and some that you’re involved with, and they give you the confidence and it isn’t actually costing you anything, because anybody like I’ve had my problems, I’ve actually found I’ve been able to help people and the network with things, you know, and everybody’s got something that they really feel that they want to do. And I think you can, but I do appreciate it’s hard on your own. But there are people and I offer these network groups.

I think they’re absolutely amazing. And what, you know, I can only speak from experience and what I’ve learned from it and how I would I can, I don’t think in all fairness, because obviously my I’m 70, 75 now, and my age is probably against me in some ways. But I’m certainly not 75 in the brain.

And I’m still very motivated. So I think think young, keep yourself smiling, keep putting your makeup on every day. Because that’s key to me even coming on here talking to you.

I had to put my makeup on to talk to you, which is crazy, because you’re not even going to see me anywhere. But just keep your confidence. Keep being smart in your brain and your appearance, whatever doesn’t have to be expensive clothes in anything.

I always say to everybody, just put your lip on. And it makes you feel $100. But I honestly think that a lot of people do give up because they haven’t got the support that’s out there.

And there’s a lot of support out there. But it’s quite low. It’s a lonely time, isn’t it? For all of us when we’re doing something on our own, it’s it.

It’s not easy. But you can do it. I know I’m proven it.

I won’t ever be back where I was. I don’t have the finances. I’m often to do it slowly, slowly.

And I never want to really run a big business again. But obviously, with the type of business I’ve got, I hope somebody sometime will come along and sort of think, you know, this is interesting and let’s take it forward. Because I’m not planning on doing this till I’m 100, you know, but I’m so proud now that I have actually achieved what I set out to allow will help anybody who wants to.

If they ask me how I’ve done it, well, I’ve told you how I’ve done it. But I think that we all need we all need somebody watching over us, don’t we? Whoever it is, you’ve had people help you with as who hasn’t, you know. And I think some people are so proud they won’t ask for help.

And there is big help out there. But just keep putting your lip on. If you keep putting your lip, smile on your face, people want to be around you.

You know, that makes me giggle that lid, you know, they put your lip on. It reminds me a bit of Joan Collins. Yeah, I remember listening to an interview with Joan Collins.

And she said, No matter what, I put my makeup on every single day. And that’s you, isn’t it? And no, we’re not we’re not doing this as a video recording. So I won’t see you.

But just knowing that you’ve put your lip on makes me feel better. And the fact that you’re 75, you might be 75, but you’ve got the energy of a 17 year old, you really still have that drive and determination. And sadly, we’re nearly at the end of this interview, and we could probably go on forever and ever and ever.

But and it just leaves me to say a couple of things before I say goodbye to you, Lynn, but I hope everybody listening tonight has enjoyed this. You’ve been listening to Dr. Nick talks. And tonight’s theme was from success to prison finding forgiveness.

This was at radio at women’s radio station calm. And you can find us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram. And all it leaves me to say is a big thanks to my guest, Lynn Smith, froggy to everybody else who’s listening.

Thank you so much.