Eat Love Do – Lovelda Vincenzi, What It Really Takes To Become A Hugely Successful Speaker

Hello and welcome to the Eat Love Do Show. I'm Janine Newbery, I am your host, and I've got a wonderful guest for you this week. Um, but before I introduce her, um, remember to head over— not head over— head over to our social medias: Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. We are @WomensRadioSTN. And on our YouTube channel, remember to hit that like and subscribe button because it really helps us, and we love it when you support the show. Right, now that's out of the way. Welcome to the show. I'm Janine Yabriassett and my guest today is Lovelda Vincenzi. She is incredible. I met Lovelda many, many, many years ago and I've been an avid fan of hers following her career and what she's created is quite incredible. She's now an international MC, moderator and keynote speaker, and she's a speaker coach and she is phenomenal and I'm so excited to have her on. So Lovelda, welcome to the show. How long did it take for us to hook up to do this? It's crazy. I'm so excited to be here though. I know, it was like, my diary's busy, your diary's busy, we'll get there in the end. In fairness, part of it was I was hardly in the country, so every time you— yeah, yeah, I'd love to, babe, but no, I can't do those dates. I know you've been jet-setting around. So were you jet-setting around for work then to do keynote speeches? Is that what you were doing? A lot of it was work-related. So there was this small thing you might have heard about it called the pandemic. Oh, you didn't come across that? It kind of hit everybody all over the world. Something to do with not leaving your houses, a virus, that kind of blah. But it closed— tweet about it. Yes, it shut down the speaking industry for like 2 years, right? So 2021, it kind of came out a little bit, but it was quite difficult because you still had, you know, vaccination situations and so on and so forth. But last year was the first year, 2022, the first year when it was like the industry really just kind of got back going. So I just think a lot of organizers were super excited. They're like, we're back. Yeah. So the great news is our speakers were like, how do we do this again? Like, it's been a while. You know, we're not looking at a camera, we're looking at the people. There's people in the room, we can see them, they're here, you know. So it just took a little bit of getting used to. So there was lots of traveling. Lots of traveling last year. So I'm back in my happy place again, basically, is what it comes down to. I love that. It is a happy space, isn't it? And I think that's great. I think that's when you know that you're destined to be a speaker, if the stage is your happy place. Yeah, you are definitely destined to be a speaker. I know, I know you are. You're like gold. You're like gold dust, lovely. You're like gold dust. So what's your topic? So what do you— just share with the audience who don't know you, and how would you not know her? Hello. And just share, do you want to share with everyone who you are, what you do, and give a little bit of a background on how you got to where you are? I mean, just small questions, Janine. Let's just start really— I mean, if this is where you're starting, the questions are just going to get bigger and more, more complicated. Like, who is Zavala? I remember the tunnel. No, uh, we won't go that— we won't go back that far. So algebra. You didn't tell me I was going to have to study for this. Is there a maths exam at the end of this? Right, hold on a minute. I need to rebook. I can't do it today. I just remembered I've got a headache. So I actually started speaking on stages from, I say, the age of 13 because it's the first time I can remember a photograph of me doing a proper presentation. But I've always been somebody who's loved the stage. When did I start professionally speaking? Around about 2017. And I say that because I was kind of doing it before then, but I don't think I could call it professional. It was a professional hobby, let's put it that way. I wasn't necessarily asking to be paid, and I didn't know it was a thing you could be paid for. So I was kind of just introducing people and thought it was interesting. The tipping point for me was— it was 2017. The tipping point for me was the first time an organizer approached me who I didn't know out of the blue into my DMs. I think it was on LinkedIn asking, inviting me to come and do an event in Paris to come host their event in Paris. And they were expecting about 3,000 participants. And then I looked at the running order of the speakers and I was like, whoa, wait a minute. So you're telling me that I can travel the world, meet interesting people and be paid for it? Like, that's a thing? Nobody told me this at school, right? Nobody told me it was an option. So at that point, it was the kind of thing that I was doing anyway, and it just came naturally. And as a result, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But at the point that the penny dropped, I thought, let me just give this a chance for a year. I'm going to tell people this is what I do for a year. I'm going to tell people I moderate and I host events for a whole year and see what what happens as a result of it. Because if I'm starting to get some of these inquiries coming through and trust and believe nothing about my digital profile says this is what I do, so I don't know how these people are finding me, but they're coming to me anyway. What would happen if I actually started telling people this is what I do? Let's see where this could go. Let me ride that gravy train and see what happens. And the first 18 months I was international. I did, I think, 3 or 4 international gigs. I did audiences of up to about 4,000 people, I think it was in the first year. I'd introduced loads of political figureheads. I'd done celebrity introductions. I'd introduced and interviewed Monica Lewinsky on stage. I still had a full-time job, but I like that your side hustle is interviewing Monica Lewinsky. You're like, most people dream. It's a bad start, right? So when that momentum started going from the one decision I decided to lean in further and say, well, it looks like this is something I can do. Let me do more of it. So that's where the kind of moderating and emceeing side of things started. It was just out of a space of curiosity. And I thought, what have I got to lose? I've got a full-time job. This is kind of easy and fun, and we'll see what happens with it. Simultaneous to it, or kind of around the same time, is as I started stepping on bigger stages, more prestigious stages, what I noticed is where I used to go to events and it was like lots of female speakers and lots of male speakers that started to change. And it was like, where are the women? Where is the diversity? What happened here? Like, how did I go from such an eclectic mix to all of a sudden it's like a little interesting, almost anomaly to see women on stages, like a female panel. An all-female panel was a point of comment. Like the women on the panel would be making a comment that they were excited that that was the case. And I remember doing one event with an organizer in that first 12 months, and they made a decision very early on that they were going to, because they noticed the same with their event, that they were gonna have a 50-50 split male-female participants. And I asked her, was that more difficult for you guys to do? And she said, yes. I was like, well, really? I know a lot of women. They tell me they speak. Speak? Where are they? I could fix this problem tomorrow. Like, this isn't— this is like— this isn't even an issue. This is like a non-issue issue. So it really irks me. And I got on Facebook, which at the time was a bulletin board for everybody else's messages. You know, when you're not using your profile and everybody just tags you and stuff, like, I skim through my profile. It's just other people's bulletin board.. And I put a post on there that said, why is it that you think that there aren't as like on larger stages, there just aren't as many women? And I got a lot of the normal rhetoric. Oh, women are, you know, women have imposter syndrome. Women don't have as much confidence. Women aren't as good salespeople. And I just called BS on all of that. But women are harder to find. I thought, hold up a minute. I'mma fix this, easy. So I put another post and I said, if you're a female speaker, you're looking to get on big stages, we need to talk. I started a Facebook group and I thought, I'm going to get all us women together and we're basically going to fix this problem. And it was going really well. People were joining in their droves. It was like 600 people in the space of like 3 weeks. It went nuts, right? Loads of women. I thought, see, I told you. Nonsense. There's loads of women out there. I remember you doing this. I remember you seeing and putting this on Facebook and thinking, this is brilliant. Get them all together, sort the problem, fix it in a moment. This is an issue, non-issue issue, right? And so I get all these women together in this Facebook group and we're kind of collaborating and sharing stuff and wonder, and the group's really active, right? It was early phases. Everybody is excited. It's really active. And I remember somebody, I remember putting a post in there one day. I thought, like, oh, we've all got video footage, we should probably support each other's YouTube channels, right? So I started this post that basically said, everybody who's got— yeah, drop your video or your YouTube underneath and we'll kind of support each other's channels and help people to kind of move their channels along. And it was partially because I wanted to kind of have my own YouTube name. It's at the time when you needed to have like 100 subscribers. So I was like, just subscribe so I can, I can own my own domain because YouTube is mean. And all the other posts were getting loads of comments and this one got crickets. Like, what the frick is going on? Hello? Anyone? Person out there? It was so bad. I messaged a friend and I said, can you see my post? Oh, that's how like out of context it was. I was like, oh my, maybe nobody can see it. So I actually messaged a friend and I said, babe, can you see my post? She says, I can see it, but Lavelle, I think they don't have footage. I was like, what do you mean they don't have footage? What? How are they doing this thing if they don't have any video footage anywhere. And that, I think, was the point where it really started to dawn on me why it was so difficult for organizers to find female speakers, because it's not that there isn't great female talent, it's that a common thread, at least that I found, is, and for a number of different reasons, women are less inclined to lean in to being a speaking business owner. They want to do— it's like, it's the way I can liken it. It's like somebody who loves baking cakes and is really struggling to figure out why their cake business isn't kicking off. But they don't have a cake business. They're just a baker. And then they're kind of— nobody knows where they are or how to get them. Nobody knows where they are and how to get it. Their friends barely— their friends know they bake but don't realize that it's that kind of a serious thing. But they're waiting for somebody to come knock on their door and go, oh my Oh my God, is that where you've been all of this time? Come, come and join. We'll give you a shop. You know, actually, I have— come and bake a cake for me. Like, they're waiting for people to come to them, but there's nothing out there. There's no signals to the market. So they're not doing like— they're not taking their stuff to a marketplace or anything. They're not doing anything. They just love baking. They're learning how to bake. They bake really well. Their friends love it. And all of their friends are always asking them to bake for the birthday, but it's always a free bake. There's no closer analogy to it. And then they go, "Nobody wants to pay me for my baking." And you're like, "But is it a business?" Yeah. Yeah. And if you do not set it up as one, nobody knows it is. I love that. You're not even thinking of it as a business. You're thinking of it like a little side hustle hobby thing. So the work I do with women is coaching around the speaking side of the business. The best way to put it is the programs I run kind of help women find their first or next 5K speaking engagement, setting up all of the structures and understanding the industry and knowing where to look and setting up their websites and their profiles and all of those sorts of things. So they actually have a bona fide business and they're sat in the CEO seat creating a speaking income, and it is a service available to hire. Rather than this really cool thing that I do, and why won't you pay me for it? Because I do it good. Yeah, yeah, it's almost— it's not even entitlement, is it? It's almost like fear, and like they're afraid to put themselves out and they're waiting for someone to come and rescue them and do it for them, like a little kid, really, isn't it? Waiting for someone to come and go, I'll do it for you. It's like, hey, your mum and dad aren't there anymore doing everything for you in the world. You got to do it yourself. Yeah, and there's a lot— there's a lot of ingrained permission-seeking from women in the most subtle sort of ways. And it's almost as if we really believe that if we do a good job, we'll be recognized for it. Like, if I get on a stage and I do really well, I'll be recognized for it. It'll be stupid little things like people going, "I ask what the budget is," and I went, "Why do you care?" Why do you care what their budget is? Like, if I'm If I'm going to view a property, right, does the estate agent go to me? We get in the property, it's a brilliant property. Does the estate agent go, how much can you afford? Yeah, 50 quid, sold. I'll have the mansion. Price is a property price, is a property price, regardless of how much money is in your bank account. So if you happen to be viewing a million pound, like a million buck property, million dollars, million pounds, whatever it is, and you only have 100K, you know what the estate agent says? That's nice. Let me show you some alternative properties. They're not even shitting with you on the price. Like, they don't care that it's too expensive. They just move on and show you something different. Like, this is not the property for you. There's something else out there at your budget point. But us women, we're like at the mercy of the budget. I'm like, why does the budget matter if your kino is 5K or 10K, your keynote is a 10K keynote, period. If they don't have 10K, that sounds like a them problem, not a you problem. It's like we're too considerate. It's like we're considering ourselves out of the game. Like, oh, I have to think about that person and how they feel and can they afford it rather than, yeah, this is what I'm worth. This is my fee. This is what I'm worth to be paid. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah. And if they can't afford it, that's okay. There's clients at every price point. Like somebody else can afford it, right? If you can't afford the million the million buck house, do you think the estate agent is going, oh my gosh, I'm never going to sell this house? They just go, I need to look for a different group of people. Like, clearly something in this, or I need to vet them better. Like, I don't want people who have $100K budgets coming to view this property. It's not a valuable use of my time, and I can't give them the property at that price. They're too far, like the gap is too big. But we then go, people can't afford us. I'm like, somebody's always not going to be able to afford you, and somebody else is always going to think you're too cheap. And I would rather be unaffordable. Boom! Drop the mic. That'd be an aspirational count. Like, go away, come back, and go away, think about it, and come back. Like, come when you're ready. Totally. Like, oh my God. No, it's true though, isn't it? It's like having that standard for yourself as well. But men don't have a problem with this, I've noticed, or less of a problem than women tend to. So I love that you're like in the arena, like, you know, cheerleading women on and showing them that actually it's all right for us to stand up and go, hey, I'm really good at what I do and I deserve to be paid X. Yeah, we do. It's time. Love it. Yeah. I mean, 9 times out of 10, honestly, the problem is when I hear people saying nobody ever pays me, I'll go, well, how many conversations did you have recently around gigs? And I swear I was doing Clubhouse rooms at one point and a woman was like, oh, I've spoken to like 5 people in the last couple of weeks or whatever. And I said, great, and how many of those were sales conversations? And she went, uh, and I went, well, we got to work out where the problem is. Is the problem that you're attracting people who don't have budget, or is the problem that you don't even— you're not having sales conversations? If you're having the conversation and they don't have the budget, then there's something different to work on than if you're not even asking for any money in the first place. The problem isn't in the market right now. The problem is you've actually got to start taking control of the sales conversations because what she said to me was, oh, it never comes up. And I went, were you not there? Yeah, presumably it was you and the potential client, right? Like you were present. So what you're really telling me is they didn't bring it up and you didn't ask. And because of that, it's like getting on A lot of my clients, I go in the coaching arena, I'm kind of like, it's like going on a call with a potential coaching client and they don't ask what your fees are and then you somehow end up coaching them for 6 months like you wouldn't do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I've been guilty of doing this as well in the past in my career and my life. Like I'm doing things for people for free because I'm like, oh, I'm putting their needs ahead. I think it's often an innate thing that we're taught as women to do. I saw my mum doing it. Be nice. Be nice. If you're not doing, you're not being nice, well, I'm your friend, you should do it. Why are you charging me? That's not nice. It's like, yeah, you're right, it's this, the nice girl, just, oh, if I'm not being nice, if I don't do stuff for people. But it's like, hang on a minute, you don't walk into a supermarket and take all the food off the shelves and walk out for free and go, oh, what do you mean? You're so mean. What do you mean I'm not paying? Oh my God, you're not nice. You pay for it, don't you? So why did they expect that you would give them stuff for free? Yeah. And there's ways to have the conversation. And it's, to be honest, I'm gonna pay this bitch. Yeah, hold up. I have a really good friend of mine who says you can't be demanding unless you're in demand. And sometimes what women do is we switch the other side, not doing anything for free. And I kind of look and I go, what about you says you should be paid? Like, that you asked for it, that's why I should pay you? It's like somebody telling me I'm a really great model, I'm great model, like I'm professional model. You go, great, can I see your portfolio? And they whip out these photos of their freaking holiday snaps. You'd be like, girl, please, professional, professional what? Right? How you gonna go out trying to demand Naomi Campbell fees and you got snaps that were taken by your bestie on holiday on an old phone? Brilliant. This is a bugaboo for me. I've met girls out and that because I was a model for 20-odd years, as you know, and I meet girls that are like, "Oh, I'm a model." I'm like, "Oh great, what agency are you with?" As in, what modeling agency? And they're like, "No, just on Instagram." I'm like, "Brilliant. Pictures of yourself with your phone. Brilliant." They're not even successful. They're not running it as a business. They're just taking pictures of themselves in the bathroom in their underwear. And I'm like, that's not a modeling job. That's just taking pictures of yourself. And it's similar. It's exactly like the analogy is really similar for speaking. It's like I've been on lots of stages now. I deserve to be paid. Look, if your website looks like you threw it together, there's no video, there's no photographs, and you're telling me you're a 5K speaker, I don't believe you. Yeah, if you— I don't believe you. Speaking of that, you can pay for a great website. It's a business. Yeah. It's like you won't walk into Gucci and walk in and expect it to look like Primark, would you? No. There's a reason that 5-star hotels don't use IKEA furniture. You wouldn't believe them. Yeah, yeah. There's a level of investment that goes in to, to make it credible. Like a credible speaker who's getting those fees has a professional video. There was a really great booker I worked with for ages. I still work with her sometimes now. And she said, you know, you'd expect that your video showreel as a speaker should be, you should have invested at least the cost of what a single speaking engagement is. So if you're out there telling people you get $3K, $4K, $5K for a speaking gig and your reel was done by yourself, nobody believes you. Nobody believes you unless you are a professional video editor as well and you did it yourself. Nobody believes you. Invest in it, right? There's no, it doesn't mean that you don't do stuff. When you get that, it's not necessarily about being demanding about the fee. It's about being demanding about being fairly remunerated for the work that you do. And there's having a fair value exchange, and that fair value exchange can take multiple forms. Once you get to a certain level in your speaking career, that fair value exchange is financial. I come and deliver, you give, you pay me for it. But in the early days, I was willing to negotiate or do something at a low or no fee in exchange for the professional video footage, in exchange for the testimonial from an organizer that's well respected in the industry. Those things have a value to them. And at the time, in those early stages of my business, they meant more than an extra couple of hundred pounds. It wasn't, you know what I mean? Like, if I had to go and bring my own videographer, it was going to cost me more than a discount of a few, like a few hundred pounds. It was going to cost me more to bring the videographer and direct them than it would for me to say, you know what, I'll give you that discount or I'll do it at less of a fee, but I'm going to get really specific about what I mean by video footage and the time frame for which I'm going to require that back. And if you fail to deliver, I will not hesitate in invoicing you that amount that I should have invoiced you in the first place. I'm gonna do it. Yo. But it's all in the contract and it's all in the agreement. The difficulty is that people will take the engagement and say, I'll do it because I want the photos and I want the video and I want this and I want that. And there's no agreement with the organizer. That was shit you had in your head. It's uncommunicated expectations. And then you get annoyed when you don't get the level of photos that you want or you don't get You never contracted for that. That was not the agreement. The agreement was that you would speak for free. Yeah, so true, isn't it? Like, you're saying it now, and as you're saying, it's like, well, that makes perfect sense. Why wouldn't everyone do it? If you're setting it up as a business, run everything like a business. And every, every business, every part of a business has a contract and has a list of how that business is run and what the expectations are for each job role. And if you bring in a freelancer, which you are as a speaker. This is the expectations, this is what you're expected to deliver, and this is what I expect in return. Why wouldn't you set it up like that? Of course you would. This is like, this is like mind-blowing stuff. But yeah, now you're saying it like, yeah, actually. But yeah, it's not necessarily rocket science in some ways, but it is a shift in your thinking about how you're engaging with your speaking. And it's moving from this is a hobby that I want to get paid for to this is a business that generates revenue and it has systems and processes and all of the structures that you would expect in an ordinary business. And the same principles for opening a shop, opening a coaching business, setting yourself up as an IT consultant apply here, right? Now, exactly how they're applied is a little bit more industry-specific and there are nuances within it, but the principles don't shift. You have sales, you have marketing, you have legal, you have finance. So these are departments that are in every, every company of any scale. It's true, isn't it? And I think like, especially like entrepreneurs are starting out and they're trying to do everything on their own, they're trying to do all these different departments and you can't do it because it's not your skill set. And I think it stops you from moving forward and stops you from being and shining and being all of you are. But This is a whole different conversation, isn't it? Really? You've got a right tangent about this. But here's the thing. When, when often when people hear me talking about these nuances and the business and the investment, they then get carried away and create a whole unnecessary complexity to what the business needs to look like. I didn't have a website until I was about 12 months in. I didn't have a showreel until I was 12 months in. Right. These the business isn't a website. The business isn't a social media profile. The business is— the business is a conversation you have with somebody and a contract you put in place in exchange for a service that you're paid for. That is fundamentally it. All of these other things are nice to have that support building of the business and systemization of it. But honestly, to build any sort of business, you need to talk to people and you need to find people. You need to be clear on who you're talking to, talk to enough people, and have a service for sale and have sales conversations. That is it. That is it. Those sales conversations become easier if you, over time, if you have a decent website and marketing collateral and a showreel and all of that kind of stuff. But only if you have a good website, showreel, collateral. Like, don't waste your time trying to create it when you don't even know who the client is because you're not on stages. Like, it is easier to write a website when you've had a ton of sales conversations. Because you know who you're talking to. Otherwise you're just throwing ideas on a page expensively. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. It's like reverse engineering, isn't it? So wait until you've done the work and you know who you are and what your voice is and the message you're doing and get that experience in and then create the website afterwards and not the other way around. And I think, yeah, just like what you said, they do the website and put the stuff on social media first because I think that's what you should do because I've seen they've seen other people have done it and then put themselves out and think the work's just going to come in. It's like crickets, isn't it? Like, well, where's all my clients? Where's all my work? I've got the website. Because that isn't the thing that generates the clients. Yeah. Let's be honest. Where's this client factory where I can find all the clients? Where can I make— I thought, I thought if I put— I thought it was the website. Is that not the client factory? It doesn't generate— websites don't generate clients. Websites help you convert better. With inbound leads. But if you have no leads, your website doesn't do anything for you. It's like a shop in the middle of a field that nobody knows exists. Yeah, there's a few cows mundle past. You're right. The thing to forget with the website is once you get the website up, unless you've done certain activities, it doesn't even rank for the name of the darn website. Trust and believe my website was my name and it wasn't on the first page of Google till I paid somebody to make it go on the first page of Google. And that's my name and my name is not well known, right? So I can't immediately rank for my own flipping name with a website that is lavelda.com, then y'all stand no chance. You're an SEO major, right? So you put all of this effort into creating something. But nobody's seeing it. Yeah. So then the next stage is you've got to drive a whole bunch of traffic to it when you could just cut that out altogether. So one of the biggest tips I give to budding speakers is go where there's traffic already, right? So if you were starting a bakery and you wanted a cake, you want to see how your cake sold, you go to a market and you get a stall at a market that's already got footfall. What you wouldn't do is decide, I'm going to go and open a shop in my house and see if people come. Yeah. Sitting there twiddling your thumbs, watching Netflix, waiting for the dark to go. All right. And so the equivalent of that market stall for a speaker is LinkedIn. Mm. Interesting. Bookers are all already there. The traffic already exists and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out how to add stuff and upload it. It's not difficult. You know, if you, if you're on any social media platform, you click edit and you type some stuff and bosh, you're done. And here's the other thing, unlike a website where you can't just load a photo and be like, bored now. On LinkedIn, you could just update your header. You could just change your job description. You could just add some testimonials. You can do it piecemeal over a period of time, but people are already on the platform looking for speakers like you. It's where most of my inbound inquiries come from, not my website. Interesting. So you don't even need a website. Yeah, there's a quick, there's a quick win for you. Websites are good in so much as what my website is, is it's like a really, it's like a brochure. As you start going to bigger and bigger gigs, what happens is there's not a single decision maker. And what the website does is lets the person who initially found you, it allows them to sell you into other, into the rest of the business a lot easier using your words. They're not going, you see, they're kind of like, and this is why video footage is really important. Most of the time for the bigger gigs that most people covet, the person you speak to, they don't get to make the decision. It's easy to get those engagements when you don't know anybody. Like when you know the person for the smaller engagements. When you go into a big company, people lose jobs over bad events. De-risk it. Yeah, it's fascinating. And what you just said that you, so you're speaking to one person and then they're going to the decision makers and it's not you and your energy, it's their interpretation and what they remember about the conversation they had with you. So it's completely watered down and distorted. So it's not even really you. So you're relying on that. Them to sell you and they can't really portray you because they're not you. So that's— yeah. And then add to that, you've got no video footage. They stand no chance. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So let me get this right. She wants to be paid X and be on our huge stage and she doesn't have a video. Yeah. So she wants to be the major keynote. Okay. Show me what she's like. Ah, no, I saw her. Honestly, trust me. Do you know how big, how strong that relationship has got to be that somebody is just going to take it on trust like that and they haven't seen you and they can't see you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think until you become a big name and become well-known, like anything in any industry, isn't it? It's like when actors are starting off, for example, or even models, you have to do castings and auditions. They're called castings. And then once you become known and people know you're good, you don't need to cast or audition anymore. You get booked. And it's the same with speakers. You end up with a lot more referrals. But I'll tell you what, even in those referrals, you think they don't look Yeah, I can tell you, even in the modeling space, you think they didn't go back to your previous work and check you out before they made that phone call? Of course they did. But you've collected no flipping marketing material because you went in, did the gig, walked out. There's not even a solitary photo of you on the dance stage. Well, there's some crappy footage that your friend took from the back of the room on their phone. Wobbling. Yeah, yeah, brilliant. And then that is, that is what you're giving to an event organizer to go to the CEO of a company and get approval for whether or not they book you for the coveted slot you want. Stop it now. Stop it. Just be realistic about where you are right now and what your profile is going to get for you right now. If you don't have that marketing backdrop, you are reliant upon people experiencing you live in a room in order to be able to book you. You cannot get cold bookings easily like that. It's, it's like so impossible because you're looking for somebody who's willing to take a risk and it's a big risk. So for somebody starting out and let's assume it's a woman, she wants to be a speaker. Yeah, nothing. She's starting off. So would you advise her to book a videographer and do like a piece to camera so she's got something to put out there to start with? For me, so I can speak from personal experience. I didn't have anything when I got started. I was lucky in so much as a coach I had, before I even dived into the speaking industry fully, used to say film everything. And so I used to take a video camera to every single engagement I did. What they failed to tell me, possibly because what they didn't know, was the only footage that really counts is high-quality professional footage. Organizers aren't interested in the size of the room. They're interested in your ability to deliver on a stage. They're interested in what your message is and how it resonates. So that footage that makes you feel good and gives you an ego boost from the back of the room, I can't see you. I'm that dot. There I am. It's like watching Brilliant. I have no idea. How you engage from that far away. You're supposed to be the star of the show in those videos, not the camera right at the back of the room. And then furthermore, it's at the back of the room. Your audio is dreadful, right? So when I got started, I knew the thing that was most important to me initially, above and beyond the fee, was the marketing collateral I could get from a gig. And I started taking that, taking personal responsibility for it. Like, it went from this is something I hope I'm gonna get and we'll see to I'm building a business. This is what I need. It's like you're trying to build a big business. You start an Amazon shop. You go hell for leather to get those testimonials because, you know, those reviews are gonna make or break your business. And the more reviews you have, the easier it is for somebody else to buy. But if somebody drops on your page and there's 20 reviews and the other person's got 2,000 reviews, they're gonna buy from the person who's got 2,000 even if your stuff is better than the one that, that other one. So you've got to work out, if I do this work now, it gets so much easier. You get a point. There's a tipping point. So I got highly responsible for each gig. You could do a record to camera. However, speaking to a camera and speaking on a stage are not the same. They're very different. The record to camera is brilliant if If you're wanting to do more virtual gigs, what I'd recommend, if you wanted to facilitate a, that kind of showreel, I would get an audience and bring a film crew, like just invite your friends or family, because for most speakers, there's an energy activation that happens when you're in front of a group of people that doesn't happen in the same way unless you were presented to camera, just looking down the lens of a camera, right? So there's nothing wrong with manufacturing it, and I use the word loosely, just, you know, let me set up the space for that to happen. But I would invite people into the room with the camera set up and go all out with it. Alternatively, the next booking I got, I would do a number of things depending on your budget. I would bring a— I would contract for the video footage and photographs from the event. It is a default in every single contract that I do. It is more the organizer has to ask me to take that out than me put it in, right? It is just in there by default. So there's two terms in my contract. One says that they will provide me with photos and videos of me on stage, and I can use them as and when I wish. That is a default in all of my agreements. And that I am also allowed to bring a videographer or photographer of my choice to capture my performance, and I'm permitted to use that however I wish. Right? So both of those things are in my default contract. That's just my base contract. So one option, firstly, regardless, if you know that the organizer has a videographer and photographer, then I would just make sure to contract for it. And when I get there, I'd make friends with the videographer and photographer. I'd speak to them because most people don't acknowledge them in the room. Hi, how's your day? Can I get you a glass of water? Little things. 'Cause trust and believe nobody else has spoken to them. I've got some of my best photos because I actually bothered to say hi to the photographer. It's stupid, but most of the time they're treated as invisible beings in a room, so that you acknowledge them is already a win. Just strike up a conversation and trust me, when you're on stage, they will have a little bit more focus just by default on you on the stage than they would somebody else because now they have a affiliation to you in which they didn't have before. Simple wins. The second thing— sorry, made a connection with them, basically. Yeah, absolutely. The second thing that I would do is in the early days, I— that first gig I got in Paris, I brought my husband along with me, so I paid for his flight. It wasn't a flight. We got the train. I paid for his train. He stayed in the same hotel room as me, and I basically promised him holiday in exchange for work, but it was a working holiday. I called him Rhodey, and I got 100% responsible for my results. This was a marketing gig, marketing gig. I was under no illusion. There was a plan. He had a list of every— I went through every single speaker and I highlighted the ones I wanted testimonials from. He had a list of— he had to get me 10 testimonials. It wasn't a play around, video testimonials. Here's the camera. I need you to go to 10 people and capture testimonials. And some of them were listed by name. So it was I need speakers, I need the organizers, and I want some audience members. And I gave him a minimum number of each of those, right? I also got really clear that I wanted photographs, and I was really clear on what I meant when I said I wanted photographs. I need up-close photographs of me on stage. I don't want you at the back of the room. I want you up close and personal, and I need you to get at least 50 of them. Like, I just need you to go ham with the camera. I want behind the scenes. I want me on the stage. I want me getting ready. I want some social media videos. Like, when I say if you come to an event with me, you are working, working, right? And then we took a video camera and took our own video footage. Was it the best? No, but I wanted a backup, and I ended up using that footage more than the original footage. Alternatively, if the gig really means that much, hire your own videographer to come with you to the event. Yeah, this is a videographer whose job it is to capture your video footage the way you want it to. But this isn't about sitting back and hoping and wishing and praying. It's about getting intentional and stepping into it to say, I'm building this business. There's a gap. I don't have the marketing collateral. I can't— I don't have the digital footprint. I don't have the proof points. That you've spoken on 50 stages is hard to translate if I don't have photos of those 50 stages. I could tell people I introduced Monica Lewinsky, or I could show a photo of it and 3 other celebrities. And trust and believe those photographs are gonna move conversations along a lot quicker than me having none of that stuff on my page. It's just the way of the world. People are making decisions like this, and you're up against other professional speakers whose profile looks better. And you don't— they won't even dive into it if they land on the page and they find you and they can't find what the information that they need to make a decision, they'll just move on. Ain't nobody got time to figure out who you are. It's true. But don't overcomplicate it. Acknowledge where you are, start where you are and take it from there. And if anybody wants more help with it, if you go to my Instagram, I've got a couple of toolkits, I've got a Get Booked Speaker Toolkit, and I give you exactly how to set this stuff up. It's $47, so super affordable to get, but it is literally— this is how I got started. So I understand the pain point. Nobody knew who the frick I was. I had no photos. I had video, but you didn't want to use it. It was grainy, back of the room, 2010 type footage, right? Like your mom barely hear me. Echoey. Like you couldn't even hear me. You could barely see me. Like, I've made all of the mistakes. I mean, I didn't get specific enough in some of my contracts. I remember doing an event, 3-day event. I got about 5 usable photos from that event. 3 days. Wow. And no video footage because they only thought to take the audio from the speakers. They didn't take it from me. So all of my introductions were echoey and dreadful. Wow. Interesting. Because all of those mistakes are kind of wrapped up into What are the questions I ask before, during, and after an event? How do I set myself up for success? How do I evaluate if a gig is a good gig? But yeah, go and check those out if you're in those beginning stages and you just want to— there's even in there like a checklist of all of the different things that you need on your profile. I just request that you don't use it as a beating stick for yourself, right, ladies? You don't get to go on there and go, "Oh God, I'm a I don't have any video footage and I don't have any photographs and I forgot to take the testimonials and my website's still dreadful and I haven't told anybody. Don't do it. Okay, we start somewhere. You know, I didn't have Monica Lewinsky until I had Monica Lewinsky, right? I just didn't. I didn't have the stuff until I had the stuff, right? So we all had to start somewhere. I didn't have professional photos until I had professional photos. I didn't have testimonials until I had testimonials. Just identify it's a gap. That needs to fill and then get intentional about filling that gap. But if you can go into every gig going, when I complete this one, the next one is going to be easier to get. Yeah, I'm not— I'm no longer going to solely focus on the delivery of my talk and excellence. I'm also going to focus on collecting the marketing assets, building my credibility in this space, creating my network, connecting with those individuals, building those relationships simultaneously. Because the easiest time to catapult your speaking profile is when you've got a gig. And 9 times out of 10, speakers are going in there, doing it, stepping out, hitting reset. And so you're in the same struggle all the time. The reason my career moved so quickly is because I was so intentional. The Monica Lewinsky gig, honestly, it came because that first gig in Paris, I was so intentional. We had business cards scattered all over the place. I walked away with 11 video testimonies. We harassed everybody. Everybody. If somebody said, let's go for lunch, we were at lunches and dinners. I spoke to every speaker before, during, after. I was connecting with people on Facebook and LinkedIn and all sorts. And one of the speakers knew the organizer who was doing the event that had Monica Lewinsky at it, and they were looking for a host. And I built a relationship with her, and we connected on Facebook, and I woke up one morning to this introduction. That's how I got that gig. I have worked with that organizer. They've booked me 3 times since. I literally just finished doing another event with them a couple of weeks ago. All because I didn't go in, do it and leave. I actually went in and I went, I'm here. Everybody here has the ability to open another opportunity for me to get on stage, but they need to know me. So I'm going to have those conversations. Yeah, it's like you're not waiting for someone to come and find you or waiting for the door to open so you can step through it. You've gone, put the door in place and stepped through it. And that's why the opportunities are there. Yeah, I love that. That's true. I did something I used to do when I moved to London in 1999 because I was presenting a TV show on ITV. I did a similar thing. Like they were in— it was a club programme called Club Vision. It was on like late night. It was like people in clubs and pop bands and things. They were filming it in Manchester. So in Manchester, my first time modelling, and the director was there and the producer, and I went up to him, went, I can do this, gave him my phone number, did an interview and walked off. And yeah, and had I not done that, I would never have got that opportunity. I got a phone call a month later and asked to come down to London and do the audition. But I like, like you put the door there, just put yourself forward. Yeah, just say, look, I can do this, make a connection and show up and push for it. But you can't just sit at home and wait for, you know, the opportunities to come to you. You've got to create them. So I love that you're doing this and this, everything you've shared so far, Lavelle, there's been absolute bloody gold. I'm like taking mental notes. Yep. Yep, I think I need to step up my game, girl. It's in you. It's just applying that same principle. Like, the women I work with tend to be really epic business owners, and it's not that they don't fundamentally know this stuff, they just haven't figured out how to apply it to speaking yet. Like, that is literally the gap, and they haven't got the same context. Like, if I was to go and jump into modeling, I just don't understand how space works and who the key players are and how they engage and all of that kind of stuff. That's what I give, you know, that's what I give my clients. Here's the structure that works effectively. That means you don't have to bust your gut, but you build a name for yourself where you become sought after. I don't— I've never really hustled for gigs. It's just not been my thing. I'm just not the hustler. I'm too lazy. But I do get, I mean, there's some weeks I get 3 inbound inquiries, 3 or 4 inbound inquiries, just LinkedIn or a website or somebody's done a referral. Like they come to me consistently. But when I have a gig, the process around that engagement that builds really deep relationships, it's that structure, it's those systems. That's what makes it a business. I think you're intentional. I think sometimes people get confused about what hustling is like. It's almost like a desperation and they've got to try and push and try really hard to get what they need. And it's not that, it's an energetic thing that you put that intention and then you've really kind of worked out a structure of, well, if I want to get here, these are the steps I need to do and these are the things I need. So what do I need to do to get those things? And then put that in place, which is, you know, you've seen it as literally as a business and these are the steps. And rather than just trying to hustle and convince people to put you on stage, you've just been intentional. Put the steps in place, and you've kind of— that's made you more magnetic, I would say. That's brought in and like brought people to you and attracted people to you because it's like the energy and the space that you put yourself in rather than that hustle kind of desperation. So I think that's probably one of the things that's made you so successful. And obviously you're incredibly talented at what you do, that's a given. I mean, just sat here listening to you there, I'm like, I could listen to you for hours. But yeah, you're right, it's that you, you've, it's how you've set it up and you're just so professional with the way that you've just even shared all of this today. I can tell immediately that everything that you put in place is completely professional. And if I was looking for a speaker, I was having this conversation and hearing how you do things, I'm like 100% trust in you. I know that if I ask you to go on stage and speak and do something and set it all up and interview people, I have absolutely no doubt that you will do it and you will do it with the same vigour and precision and professionalism that you've done everything else. Because I like that saying, how somebody does one thing is how they do everything. And if people are hustling, that sort of chaotic energy of, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm desperate to get something, that wouldn't make me want to book someone. Because I'm like, if that's how you are now, that's how you'll show up to the gig. So I don't want that on my stage. So I love that. Professionalism is such a big thing in this space. And I remember when I started, you know, people, I don't know your niche or your niche. You don't know your niche. I hate niche. I hate niche. It's so American, niche. I'm like, it's niche. It's niche. I had a client once and she was like, is the word niche or niche? Like, I'm like on Clubhouse now, I'm hearing everybody say niche. And I was like, you do realize that only Americans call it a niche? Like the rest of the world has been referring. She was like, really? I was like, yes, girl, it's only y'all referring to a niche. Okay? It's a niche. It's French. It's a niche. All that to say professionalism makes such a really big difference. I remember when I was starting and people were talking, you know, in any space, regardless of what you're selling, understanding who your client is, which is basically niching, having a really deep understanding of your client and differentiating yourself. Such that you become the obvious choice for the client is super important. And when you're starting, you have no idea who the frick the client is. You're making it up, okay? You know, but you got to start somewhere, you know. So mine started so broad. I am a magic, you know, because everybody kept going, I like your energy. I was like, I don't know what that means, but, you know, I bring good vibes. Like, we're just going to go with brings good vibes. Really super vague, but I had to start somewhere. And I remember somebody saying to me, like, it really doesn't take that much to stand out. And I'm You're digging deep for something really different and exciting and sassy. And then often, especially as a speaker, your niche, your superpower is so innate to how you do business that you don't even recognize it as a thing. So the first time I realized one of my key points is after that gig in Paris. And I remember I did a debrief with the organizer. If you're not doing debriefs with your organizers, do debriefs. How are you supposed to learn? Anyhow, pin in that. I did an interview for the organizer, and they said to me, we really appreciate that you took the time because it was all moderated panels. We really appreciate that you took the time to meet with everybody in your panel because none of the other moderators did this, and they must have had a good 10 other moderators. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, how did they prepare? Because to me it seems absolutely insane that I just like, it's just innate to me that I would want to prepare it and I want to understand the personalities. And to me it's just a natural thing that I lent in to do because I didn't, I couldn't figure out how to do it any differently. And I literally met with every single one of my speakers, every one of them. It was about 24 calls I needed to do in a couple of weeks. I met with every single Speaker, and it had a lot of other benefits, but it mainly allowed me to understand who those personalities were. But this organizer tells me none of the other moderators did it. Now, in my mind, this is what moderation looks like. And in his mind, this was a gem that he was— didn't even know that he was looking for that I delivered. And to me it's like, but doesn't everybody do that? And so I say this to say often that, that beauty, that kind of pièce de résistance piece is something that is so innate to you that it just kind of feels a bit like, can't everybody? Like, isn't that just normal? And since then I've put it more front and center. I talk more about my preparation process. I get the feedback very regularly, like, how you help us prepare and how you prepare for the stage is really unique. So I know it's— I now know it's not that normal. But had I not been having these conversations and been open to what do people appreciate about who I am and what I do, then I wouldn't even know to call it out because I thought everybody does this. It's like, kind of like, to me it would be like saying to a model, we love your— like, we love that you smile, and you kind of go, but how do you take photos without a smile on your face? Do the other models not smile? Right? Because I just don't know how to do it any other way, that you kind of go, yeah. Is it just what this is? It's interesting, but also when you're saying it, I think, well, that makes perfect sense because you get a feel for the person. But not only that, you're building rapport with the speaker as well before the event. So when you get to be at the event and be on stage with them, you've already got that rapport and connection. So they're going to be more at ease. You're going to be more at ease. Everything's going to flow. Of course, that makes— of course you'd want to do that. Yes. I don't know how the others did it, but to me, like, to this day, I'm like, I genuinely have no idea how you managed to create a panel. But it's also part of the reason why when I moderate panels, I get such positive feedback that, like, it was so enjoyable. Because what I can now see in retrospect is if you don't have those conversations, people all come a little bit like, I don't know who you are. I don't know what your intentions are. There's an audience of people here. So you've got all of that resistance that comes in initially because I don't know who's asking me these questions. Whereas if I've had even a half an hour conversation with you beforehand and it's like, it's like talking to a friend. So it's why often panel discussions with people who already know each other feel easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's already a rapport underneath it, whereas often sometimes those ones where people don't know each other, it feels kind of like an interview. Yeah. Yeah. Rather than a conversation, it feels like, here's a question, here's the answer, here's a question, here's an answer. Whereas when you know each other, you'll drop in those normal little, like, just stupid quirks in between that it feels like you're just having a chat. And not all panelists know how to be good panelists. So if you don't know how to be a good moderator, they just gonna show up on like autopilot. Like, yeah, I've seen that on stage as well. I've seen some people just sort of sat there because they're nervous as well. They might not be used to an audience and they're kind of so rigid and they'll give like one or two word answers and then just sit there and wait for the next question. You're like, oh, you can kind of like feel it for the moderator. You're like, this is painful. It's because they're terrified. I've had so many speakers who were just terrified before they got on stage. Stage, absolutely terrified. Like somebody at the company told them they were going to go do this thing, and then they arrive and they go, there's more people in this room than I was expecting. And I'm like, babe, you'll be okay. But then I become that friendly, safe face. Like, just look at me. Let's just forget them. You know that conversation we had before we got here? We're just going to have that again, which is very different to I'm already nervous. I'm going on this stage. I don't know anybody, and I'm about to be interrogated in public. That doesn't feel the same for an individual versus, okay, somebody here has got my back and they're rooting for me. Like, don't worry, all you got to do is answer a question. If you can't remember the answer, we had that conversation. I'm gonna give you a little tip. I'll feed it back to you. Nobody's gonna know. You know, that's really interesting because it reminds me of that thing that you said when we were doing the prep call. You know, I'll throw it back to you. You know, don't worry, we're here together. This is, this is an us thing, not a me versus you thing. You don't have to perform. You just have— I've got the hard work to do. I gotta come up with the questions and make this shit interesting. People already came to see you. They know who I am, right? But being able to build those connections really quickly is really, can be really helpful. All that to say, when it comes to defining your niche and who you are and what makes you different, it doesn't need to be particularly complicated, but it does require that as the business owner, the same way in any company, you're listening to your clients and you're going, oh, I didn't know they were using the product that way. I didn't even know it could fix that problem. Oh, I didn't know this was the application. Oh, all of my clients that I help the most are similar to this. And then what do you do? You take that and you bring it back and you put it, feed it into your marketing material. But every time you get on stage, you've got to listen. What do people appreciate about you? The reason I had energy initially is because it was becoming uncanny. I have got off stage at the end of an intro before and somebody's going, "Oh my God, I love your energy." It's like we're besties already, and I'm like, "Girl, I don't know you. I don't even know what this energy thing is, but apparently it's a good thing." It came up so freaking consistently. Listen to it, and then market based on that because people who love you are telling you it anyway. So the people who don't yet know who you are, if they love that factor, they're going to love you, but they got to know it exists. So I'm going to get off my soapbox. I got to tweet you. Yes, girl, bring it. Oh, that was brilliant, Lebelda. We've run out of time. That was— No, no, no, no. More. Oh, Lalis, I could chat to you forever. This has been brilliant. Just the absolute gold that you have dropped in this conversation. I've got to say, it's been one of my favorite conversations. I probably shouldn't say that, should I? But there you go. So far. Hashtag sorry. Oh, I've absolutely loved, loved, loved, loved chatting to you. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on and share this absolute gold with everybody. You are an absolute master at what you do. Everybody head over to lavellda.com. Anyone who's thinking about being a speaker and is looking for a coach or wants to get that info that you're the £47 thing, go along, get it, and just take on board. Like, just this absolute goal that you've shared is just incredible. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much. This is fun. I love interviews. I like interviewing either side of it. I'm like, oh cool, cool, I just have to answer questions. I could do that. You're great as well. You just go and I'm like, sit back and listen. It was absolutely bloody brilliant. I'm just like learning, learning, learning. This is great. Thank you all for listening. This has been the Eat Love Do Show on Woman's Radio Station, 9 AM and 9 PM every day all week. Listen up, catch you next time.