Female-ing – Jessica Killingley, Owning Your Story

Hello everyone and welcome to the Femaling Show. I am your host, Nicole Goodman and you are listening to Women's radio station and on today's show the topic is the importance of owning your story, which I am going to be talking about a lot more and explaining a lot more. But I am not on my own. You'll be pleased to know you don't have to listen to me all day. I am joined by the talented Jessica Killingly. Jessica Killingly is a publishing consultant and literary agent who has spent over 20 years working in the publishing industry. During that time, Jessica has worked for a number of major multi award winning UK publishing houses, working with hundreds of authors and created countless best sellers alongside her consultancy. She is also the co founder of the BKS agency which she will tell us about and her passion is getting more great books out into the world, particularly the ones that help other people make meaningful transformations. Jessica says, I believe in the power of coaching and working with people to help them live their best lives. I want to help people find their voice and give them a platform to spread game changing ideas. I make my impact by helping you make yours. Jessica, welcome to Femaling. Thank you very much Nicole. Very nice to be here. This meeting is very long overdue, isn't it? Jessica and I found each other through I saw you speaking, a talk I went to, and then through the power of social media and Jessica was promoting her own course on how to write a book online. And I just loved your candid nature. I love that you swore every other second. I loved your raw honesty and I developed an absolute girl crush. Oh, thank you very much. So it's always fun coming on podcasts because it's literally I. Do you remember in Big Brother when Davina would be like, you're live on tv, please do not swear. That's the voice in my head when I come podcast. Well, we did, we had that just a second ago, didn't we? So I will be. I will be clean. So I want to start be clean. Oh well, we'll have to start somewhere. So. So let's start with what owning your story means and why it's so important. That's a great question and a big question. I know. It is a big question. I think, I think particularly for women, but not just for women, for everyone. We have that tendency to just think that what we've been through doesn't matter, but it's, oh well, it's ours and nobody's interested. And you know, I, I don't know, I think it's We. We play it down. We don't. We don't think about the fact that sharing what we've been through and owning our story, how that can help other people. Yep. I think we're. We're often reluctant, and I do see this particularly in women reluctant to use their story to actually help teach other people. Because we think, well, who am I to help? You know, who am I to teach people? Who am I to. You know, I've just. I've just had this. It's not very interesting. And. And the idea that actually we can, you know, make what we've happened to us relatable to other people. That. That kind of things. We. I think we think we need permission somehow to do that. I read a lovely quote. I think it was from the Huffington Post, but don't quote me on that. And it says we all have parts of our story that are a little more difficult to own up to than others. And since as humans, we are wired to avoid pain, we often end up locking those portions of our tail up in a closet somewhere, never to see the light of day again. But if we decide to let them out into the light and maybe even give them a little cuddle and say, I get you. Something quite magical occurs. Really what it comes down to is this. You can own your story or your story will own you. Either way, you can rewrite the past, but you can. You can't rewrite the past. Sorry. But you can influence the next chapter. Oh, I love that. And that's so true. And I've spoken to lots of people. I mean, that's a really interesting thing because some people say, oh, well, you know, my story is that not. My story is not that interesting because, you know, like, I haven't been through terrible tragedy, so, like, some people have. But actually, when I've spoken to people who have been through quite extreme things, they are the ones that have kind of lent into the pain of it because they don't want the pain of what's happened to them to own them. And they want to be able to sort of take that tragedy or take that pain and find some good in it and find some benefit in it. And I think that's a really lovely quote that kind of, I think, inspires you to not. I think the more we shrink away from difficult emotions, the harder it is and the heavier it weighs on us. But I think when you can find the way to lean into that and to unpack it, then I think you can be free of it. And I think for me Helping people write that we have a dog in the same way we have a dog. Sorry, Elvis. The mini accent has strong opinions on how to tell your story. When I think, you know, when I help people write stories, it's that process of unpacking it, you know, that can be incredibly cathartic. Yeah. And transformational, as it said. Not only for. And I love what you. When we spoke about this podcast before you came on, not just for someone to release themselves, but in a vehicle to help other people. Definitely. And I'm a big believer in. Actually, the thing I say all the time is a story about you has got to be a story about me, because basically, people don't actually care about your story. I mean, I often say, like, you know, maybe if you survive the shark attack, but even on. But actually, people. Do you think that plays into why women don't then own it? Yes, I think so. But I think if. If you, for example, you know, can I always connect it to books? Because it's what I do. But if you, if you buy a book, you buy a book because it's going to solve a problem for you. Yes. You might be interested in that, in the author. But ultimately, if. Because you want a problem fixed. Yes. And so what I see is a lot of people, they. They kind of. Oh, people have always said I should write my life story. And I just want to say, well, you can do. But honestly, no one's going to care. The magic happens when you can make me care about my story, when you can use your story as a vehicle to help me process something that I'm going through. And that, I think, is where we. When women can lean into that role of being a teacher. And it's. They go, oh, but who am I? I'm not an expert. And the thing I always say is it's not about being an expert. It's about the fact that you might be two or three steps ahead of somebody. And by sharing what you went through, you're leaning your. You're, you know, you're reaching your hand back and helping that woman who's a couple of steps behind you. You're not saying, I've got all the answers. You're not saying, I'm a guru, I'm an expert. You're saying, I went through this. This. This is what I found helpful. This is how. This was my experience of it. And, you know, it's that. It's when we come together and we have those common experiences that, you know, we form those bonds and we form communities and I think, you know, women are really good at doing that and that we can really, we can really kind of benefit from that. And I think also, you know, when I talk about, oh, some people have been through, you know, quite extreme tragedy, it's not about the incidences, it's not about the, the things that you went through. It's about connecting to the emotions of the thing that you went through and the emotions that you were going through when you came out the other side of it. Because, you know, for example, quite tragic thing like, you know, the loss of a loved one or kind of, you know, fertility issues, baby loss, all those sorts of terribly sad things. Somebody might not have gone through that exact set of circumstances, but they will have gone through something where you can tap into the emotions and those emotions will be the same as something, as something else that someone else has been through. Interestingly, I had a friend on last week and she told her fertility story and she had a really difficult fertility story. She's. She's due in three weeks now anyway. But it took her five years to get pregnant. And I had the most response I've ever had from any other podcast I've done. And I've done over 40 episodes because people were so moved by her story and her story. The people that were coming back at me with, I cannot tell you, I sat there and I cried there. They've got three kids, four kids. Their issue wasn't fertility, but her story was about bravery, it was about hope, it was about determination. And I think something in there everyone could identify with at some point in their life. And Elvis agrees. The dog, he started sneezing. I literally. He normally spends the morning curled up on my lap asleep, but he's chosen this recording to start sneezing. So, Jessica, I'm curious to know what got you into this line of work because it's usually based on something personal that's happened. The people in this space wanting to help others, whatever it is they want to do, it's usually based on something personal. Was that the same for you? I think, I mean, I suppose slightly different in that I spent 20 years working in the publishing industry and I got to a point where I was at that stage in my career. I was, you know, I was a board level marketing director. I was quite senior. My son was about to start school and, you know, I didn't real well. I realized, you know, when they're at nursery, they're in all day and then they start school and it's like they're in there for Five minutes a day. What are you supposed to do after two weeks of the term? I know. So I was, you know, we were looking at how could I make a lifestyle change, you know, and I was like, I either want to do more or I want to do less. Right. The idea that I could do less and do more simultaneously didn't occur to me then, but now, now I know it's possible. So yeah, everyone's ears are pricked up on that. We want to know that. Oh yeah, definitely, for sure. But so I was, you know, so I, I took the decision to leave and that was a big step because one of the things that I was, that was really weighing heavily on me was what will people say? I'm throwing away my potential. I'm throwing away a 20 year career to sort of just sort of, you know, paddle about doing a little bit of freelancing and you know, have I ruined my, all of that? You know, all that time I've spent, which of course I, you know, I do a lot of personal development work and I realized was nonsense. So off I went. But that was a real fear of yours. Like what were people saying? Yeah, definitely. And also, you know, genuinely, am I, am I kind of, you know, throwing away my potential? 20 years of really having built up quite a serious career and I left publishing and I was knackered, like, so I was like, I didn't, you know, 20 years of it. I didn't know what I was going to do. Sorry. The dog is literally doing somersaults on your lap. He's very beautiful, I have to say. Yeah, we have a refrain of like, well, it's a good job. He's cute. Yes. Literally, he's normally fast asleep on my lap. But anyway, so, so, so that was a very, very big shift. Yeah, it was a big shift and I didn't do anything for a few months. I sat in coffee shops and read graphic novels and comic books, which I can recommend. It was quite fun. And then I thought, no, okay, so trying time to start doing stuff. I was going to start just helping people with marketing because that's what I've done. 20 years working in marketing. I was going to help sort of small business owners with their marketing. Did it for a couple of months and I was just like, I didn't have, I didn't have anything to say, which is, I find that really. Well, exactly. And that was the first. And actually this is the first thing that when I talk to people who have trouble writing, it's, you know, this thing I Think this thing about writer's block. And it's different for fiction. I wouldn't presume to talk about fiction, because that's a very, very different beast. But it's often a case of just not being aligned. If things are hard to come out, then it's a question of not being aligned. And I realized that what I was trying to do, I was not aligned. And so I was like, you know what? Cut me and I bleed ink. Books are what I know. Books are what I know. And so. And I had. My coach at the time was just like, oh, you should totally help people to write books. And I was like, no, I'm done with it. I'm done with it. But I realized that actually, you know, it is what I've done all my life. And I am so passionate about, you know, personal development and, you know, people getting out of their own way so that they can, you know, it's that permission thing. It's like you can have the permission to live. Like, I discovered that to do more and do less. You know, I now work half the amount of hours, do all my schoolwork, and I make more impact. And money. Is that what you mean by more? More money, more impact. More money, more impact. More. More balance in my life. Beautiful. Less time on the tube. Lovely. I mean, how inspiring that is. And I had no idea that was possible. Literally no idea that was possible. And I'm very much like. I mean, you know, I'm an idiot. If I can do it, so can anyone. So you really went on a leap of faith, just knowing that something had to change because you wanted to be there more for your family. Definitely. And it was funny. It was the first time in my life, actually, where I'd experienced. Exactly faith is the right word. Because I was like, I have no clue how I'm going to make this work, but I just have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that it will. That it's going to be okay, and that I will find a way of making this work. And, you know, you still have. You're still sobbing on the carpet that it's not. It's not all. It's not. It's not all daisies and unicorns. You could be sobbing on the carpet by doing your 900 hours a week. It doesn't make any difference. Well, exactly. I was still sobbing, and now I'm sobbing on the carpet, but on a much nicer carpet. And now you help women to find their voice and find. And in turn find a life that works for them within their mission and within their message. Yes. And that's why I'm really passionate specifically about helping women write books that grow their businesses. We're going to going to take a break and when we come back, Jessica will tell us more. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Nicole Goodman. And I'm Lauren Mishkon and this is the Self Care Club podcast. The advice for self care today is endless and can feel like yet another overwhelming job for women. The Self Care Club is part social experiment, part reality show. Every episode we trial a different self care practice, live it to the letter for a week and report back to you you on the results. 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Join us on Instagram and Twitter at women's radio station, that's Women's Radio STN or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back to Women's Radio Station. You are tuned into the Femaling show and I'm your host, Nicole Goodman. I'm joined by my amazing guest Jessica Killingly and we are talking about the importance of owning your story. Jessica, welcome back. Thank you very much. So we briefly touched on why it's important to own your story. I have another quote. I don't know why I'm reading so many quotes today, but I just saw them last night and I felt really moved by them and I think it plays beautifully into the topic today. This definitely was from the Huffington Post. I don't know where the last one was, if we are lucky. There is a certain catharsis in owning your story, the sense of a burden being lifted. But perhaps more importantly, there is the potential to form a connection with our listener or our reader, our follower or our friend to show them how fallibly human we are, to crack ourselves open for a moment and make us all feel a little less alone. I really like that. And that reminds me of one of the things that I when we were talking about women leaning into their story and owning it in a way that can help somebody with what they're going through. One of the reasons I'm so passionate about leaning into that kind of role of using your story as a vehicle to practically help somebody is in a book, if it's just your story and it's people say, oh, I want to write a book, I want to inspire people. And that's a really, really, like, commendable thing. But if you think about the fact that you, you know, say you were sitting in, in a wine bar with your girlfriend and she's pouring her heart out to you about something that's going on and you respond with it's always darkest before the dawn or I don't know, some other kind of nonsense like Instagram meme that's like, you know, heartwarming, she's going to look at you and be like, yeah, okay, but like, what should I actually do? Can you be quite. Yes. And I think that's, that's the thing is, of when you, when you're comfortable in owning your story, it isn't just about inspiring somebody is. Or, you know, whilst that is really good and that's a starting point, and my. If we're doing quotes I really like, there's the, the thing is a John Maxwell quote about inspiration will get you going, but discipline will keep you growing. And so, you know, inspiration is great to make you see what's possible, but then if you want to actually take action to help yourself to improve your situation, to, you know, help your mindset, to make yourself feel better, then you need some actual practical help. And that's, I think, when you share your story to the point of like, well, this is what I did and this is what worked for me. You're not saying, you're not being prescriptive, you're not saying do it this way, but here are some things that helped me that you could try that I think is really, really powerful. And I think that's when the magic happens, because if it's all just teaching, it's really boring. And also I think that gives women a certain sense of validation that they can step into themselves. They are, oh, I have permission to be able to own this. I have permission to be able to see. Speak about this without having to worry about how it might affect somebody or me pissing somebody off or upsetting somebody or them thinking, God forbid they think badly of me. And I think women are very constrained by that. Definitely, definitely. And I also think there's quite often there's a thing about. Well, actually, there's another great quote, and this is Elizabeth Gilbert about writing from the scar, not from the wound, which I think is so powerful, because if it's still very raw for you. Yes. Then by all means, write it. But write it for yourself. Yes, for the catharsis, for writing it privately. But once you've processed what your story is, and it might not be something big and scary, it might be just how I overcame being scared to show up on doing a Facebook live to grow my business. But, you know, once you've. Once you've got past it and, and you've sort of, you know, healed from it, that's when it becomes very, very valuable and that you can kind of, you know, use it to help somebody move on. And I think often as well, we fall into that trap of apologizing for wanting to use our story, like, oh, I'm sorry, But could I just maybe share this with you? Would you possibly be interested in, like, coming to my talk or listening to my podcast or. I'm sorry to bother you. Would you mind reading my book? It's like, no, no, no. This is actually going to change your life. I'm covering my eyes as you say that because every woman. Okay. There's an exception to every rule. I'm not going to generalize. Most women like to apologize just for. Just for being there. Oh, I'm sorry for breathing. Yeah. I have a hair salon. And I have had a hair salon for. Well, I've had a private hair salon for over 10 years and I've been a hairdresser for over 25 years. And do you know the amount of women that have walked into my salon and the first word that comes out their mouth is, guess what? Sorry. They walk in, giving me their business, and they say, I'm sorry. So many women apologize or they'll excuse what I look like, I'm so sorry I'm two and a half minutes late, or, oh, I'm sorry I booked this appointment. There's always an apology. And the interesting thing is a man has never walked through my door and apologized. Yes. Why is that? I always apologize. Like, I'm sorry that my hair. I get to the hairdresser. I'm sorry that my hair's in such a mess. Well, isn't that the whole point of me being here? It is the same as the fact that I like that. That mad run around, tidy up you do before your cleaner comes, like, because heaven forfends. You should know my house is messy. What is that? Why do we apologize all the time? I think we. I think it's to do with wanting to avoid conflict. I think it's to do with we want to take up less space. We don't want to be. We want to be frictionless. Yep. We don't want to be noticed. So when it comes, it's so sad. I mean, all those things. And yes, I agree. I absolutely agree to all of those. And it just makes me feel like all the work that we're doing, we're still not doing it quickly enough. So in your line of work, how do you see this apologetic manner showing up in women owning their story? Because it must. It must really ignite it all. Definitely. And one of the things, you know, there's lots of fear around writing a book and writing your story in a book, obviously, you know, what will people say? What if it's rubbish? Who am I to tell this and the thing that I would urge people to focus on is think of, you know, say you. Say you have. You've learned stuff because your baby didn't sleep, and so you went to get a sleep consultant, and it made such a massive impact that you trained to become a sleep consultant yourself. But now you're like, well, I couldn't possibly write the book because who am I? Like, I've only been training for a year because I went through that, because apparently 20 years in publishing wasn't enough experience to help people to write their book. That was a genuine thought process. That was. I went through the same thing because when I went into women's coaching, exactly the same. Well, who am I to talk about women? I've worked with women for 25 years. How much longer can I work with women and know a woman to talk about how to help a woman? You've also been a woman for quite a long time. I mean, obviously you've only been for about 21 years, Nicole, of course. But, yeah, this mythical sleep consultant, who is. Who am I to do this? There is a woman out there at three in the morning who is going absolutely nuts with crazed exhaustion. She needs you to write your book. She needs you to put that fear to one side and to get it done. And I think it's when you start to look at the fear of never doing it being greater than the fear of doing it. You know, the fear of it. Somebody might come and say something bad about you. You know, people. Which they will anyway. Which they will anyway. You know, perfection is an illusion. And we. We go for perfection because we think it's going to protect us from judgment. If I put something out when it's perfect, nobody can come at me, and it's like, bro, or sorry, sis, they're gonna come at you anyway. Yeah. Whether you write a book, whether you don't. But the thing is that they are not your people. You have not written this book for them. Yes. And it's. So, you know, if people come at you, I mean, you know, it's like if somebody comes at you because you've made a mistake in a. In a Facebook post or an email, and I'm like, whatevs. Yeah, I did. You know, I quite quickly realized that, you know, when I first started my business, the thought of, like, going. Doing Facebook lives, holy moly. I couldn't. That was awful. And the brilliant bit is when you first start your business, nobody's watching, so nobody's there when you mess it up. So that was quite. That was quite good. And then I've got to the point of I'm too old to care whether or not I'm. Do you know what I mean? It's like I'm very marmite. I'm doing a very good job of not swearing, but I'm very marmite. And people either find that annoying or not. And I now have no qualms about doing a Facebook live from my car with no makeup on in my PE kit. My. Because it doesn't make what comes out of my mouth any more better because I'm wearing mascara. Yeah. And. But I think if I was 30, I wouldn't feel like that. But because I'm 46, I'm too old and lazy. Well, I love what you're pointing to. The fact that actually you're just being yourself and there's so much power in being yourself, accepting yourself exactly as you are. And actually there's a lot of magic in that and there's a lot of impact, as you've said before in that of how you can help other people. So the minute you get past yourself, you can actually create a real message in the world. But it's, but it's that stage of having to get past our fears, get past our self doubts, get past the worry. And what will people think first before we get to step into it? And the beauty of that is that when you are comfortable showing up as much as you can as yourself, that message becomes completely magnetic because for a certain group of people, they will hear it and just think, how is she inside my head? Yeah. How does she know exactly what I'm thinking? It's because she's been honest about what's inside her head. Yeah. Well, it gives you permission to allow others to do the same. Absolutely. So if we want to be ourselves, we have to be. We have to do that. We have to show up as we are because it then allows other people to do the same. We're going to cut to a short break and then we'll be back with Jessica after that. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring and Empowering At Nurturing Birth we offer approved doula training courses across the UK which are facilitated by an award winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more@nurturingbirth.co.uk hi everyone and welcome to the Femaling Show. I am your host Nicole Goodman and I am a woman's identity expert and coach. As women, we fall into different phases of identity through our adult life and during these our challenges can look pretty similar. Here at wrs, I will be talking to you about the real issues we all face and even the ones we can silently struggle with. Through honest, heartfelt conversation. Here at Femaling, you will learn how to accept yourself, understand yourself and be yourself. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together with spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories. It will be refreshing, honest and funny. 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You are tuned into the Femaling show and I'm your host Nicole Goodman and I am joined by Jessica Killingly and we are talking about how to own your story, the importance of owning your story. Welcome back Jessica. Thank you. So I want to say something off the top of part three which I haven't done because I am a part of Jessica's course which she's going to tell us a bit about soon. And I'm writing a book with Jessica. She's teaching me how to do that. And this is the first time I've actually owned it. Hooray. Congratulations. Well, because we're talking about owning our stuff and the importance and how much. How much I want that for women and how much you want that women. And here I am. You gave a challenge in the first week was to go onto all your social media channels and tell everybody you're writing a book. And I thought that there is no way I am going to be telling anyone I'm writing a book. I could barely tell my husband, but there you go. I am in the very slow, slow process of writing a book. Well, well done. If you're going to be accountable, this is a great way of doing it. That's excellent. Well, I have to practice what I preach. And do you know what the beginning stages are? Are slow. And I think that's fine. And actually, the longer you take at the beginning, I think the faster you go once you get to the writing. Well, that's. That's a relief. Yeah, that's a relief. So we've been talking about perfectionism. We've been talking about how difficult it is for a woman to own her story and why it's so important. The one thing I want to say is that whether you're writing a book or whether you don't, I mean, obviously I've asked you on, because you are a literary agent. This is what you do. And it. You. Your whole life is about writing books and story. But if a woman doesn't want to write a book, why is it still important for her to own herself? Can she still make that magical impact in the world that we've been talking about? Absolutely, Because I think it's part of your just ongoing personal development. Because I think, you know, personally, I'm somebody that goes through life wanting to be a better human being today than I was yesterday. And I think that that's very hard to do if you are not at peace with yourself and that you have not been kind to yourself. And, you know, we talk a lot about kindness and forgiveness, and those are far easier things to do for other people than they are to ourselves. Yes. And I think you can't show up properly for other people if you can't show up for yourself. And so I think part of that is owning your story. But in a way as well, that kind of disconnects you from that victim role. You know, stuff happens. But you can either let that own you or you can own it. And it's, you know, whether you're kind of at cause or effect, and if you're somebody that's like, oh, well, you know, it's really hard because this happened to me and this happened to me, and this happened to me, it's like, fine, you can't control necessarily all of those things, but you always can control your own reactions and your own behaviors. I'm a big believer in kind of reframing. I always say I'm a champion reframer. I'm the sort of person that if I get a parking ticket, it's like, it's the universe's way of telling me to slow down and pay more attention. And isn't it a good thing that it's only £60 and I didn't crash my car and have to spend 6,000, you know, so. But that, but it's like there is a, there is a lesson in everything, and you can choose to see that as negative or you can, well, you're getting the parking ticket anyway. The parking ticket is there in your hand. And I love, love that because you've got the parking ticket, you might as well try and feel good about it. Well, I would just say, say to myself, it's an idiot tax because I'm clearly doing too much. I'm not concentrating. I forgot to pay for my parking. That's. I need to slow down and not take, you know, and that's. And that's another thing as well. I think we take on so much and it's a form of self sabotage. And it's a get out of jail free card for. Oh, well, that didn't work because I want it because I've got so much on at the moment. You've, you've voluntarily taken all those things on. You can actually say no to stuff. Well, I say that always. Busy is a status symbol. Yeah. In our current culture, it is. Because the busier you are, the more, I don't know, productive you feel you are or the more worth you feel you have. We're very attached to being busy. Yes. It's kind of a, it's kind of a badge of honor in that thing of thank you. You know, showing up. You know, it's. It's that, it's that paradigm, isn't it? We were just talking about how as women, we didn't want to, you know, we don't want to make waves, but we also sort of feel like busyness is our way of showing up in the world and proving that we're okay to Be here. And it's just crazy, isn't it? It's like, no, I'm just gonna sit in a chair and be argumentative. That's probably the other extreme. I don't do that anymore. I don't do that anymore, so. Well, there is that, isn't there? And so, but what you're saying and what your, what you encourage in your work and in your business is for everyone to show up as they are for whatever's happened to them and just be open and honest and claim it. Absolutely. And just. You don't need permission. It's not, it's not self indulgent, okay. To, to, to spend time on yourself, your mental state and work and, you know, work, doing the work that you need to be to be a functioning human being. It's not self indulgent. It's a necessity. And actually, if, if more people did that, then, you know, we might all be in a kind of more happier, loving environment where everyone's kind to themselves and then kind to each other. Well, if you're kind to yourself and you're feeling, if you're coming from a place of fullness and a place of well being, then you can bring that into the world. But if you're coming from a place of total depletion, then what do you have to give? Absolutely. My next quote, never done so many quotes in my life, is from you. Oh, my God. I think where women can really own their story and turn it into something valuable is when they lean into how they can use their story as a vehicle for reaching their hand back and helping the women that's a few steps behind. It's not about setting yourself up to be some kind of expert or guru, but acknowledging we all have a role to play in helping those that come after us. Yes. How articulate. Well, thank you very much. Not surprisingly. And what this does. I got shivers when I read it. Honestly, Jessica, because what this does is it allows the woman who's reading this to actually let go of all of those. What will people think? Let go of that self indulgence. Let go of. Well, I'm being selfish or I. People will think I'm, I think too much of myself. They'll let go of all of those fears and just really be able to step into what's happened to them, what they want to say and who they are. The dog is now snoring, very chilled out. I think he just finds what I say boring, probably. I mean, I think the other thing as well is when I think about that I think about all the women who have helped me, all the people who have helped me and that great. I have found great strides happen. Like I have moved in forward in quantum leaps. When I have admitted to myself not that I don't know what I'm doing, but that I'm completely open and coachable and, and you know, open to getting help and how valuable I have found the help that I, and how grateful I am for the help that I've been given. And there is, in letting somebody help you, you are also giving them a gift because there is great joy in helping others. And, and it's the transactional thing. So just so when you think about helping somebody, remember that you're both getting benefit from it. And actually it's a real, you know, but there's two sides to it. People like to feel like they can help and they like to feel like, you know, that they have grown because of the help that they've been given. When I, when I found my first coach, so after I stopped working and I quite quickly realized that what I was trying to do was not going to be what was not working, I went, you know, because I believe in the power of coaching so much, I was like, right, okay, obviously I need to go and get a coach. And the coach that I found actually became my first client as a literary agent and my first published book which I was very proud of and particularly because it had a swear word in the title. But when I found, when I first found her I was like, oh no, she is not for me. She's really pink and girly and woo woo and just like oh my God. Cuz 20 years in publishing, it's very too cool for school. I was very eye rolly and cynical. I was like oh hell no, she's not for me. And then the more, the more, the more I kind of looked into her work on online and everything and I got to know her and you know, she was quite sweary and she had a psychology degree so she was clearly like very intelligent as well under all the pink girliness. And I was like, do you know what? You're not happy. Your old ways are not serving you. Be open minded enough to embrace a different way of looking at things and accept that somebody who is not like you has got value to bring into your world and because I think I had that moment of just, you know, not being a twit. But how did you get that moment? Because that's a brave moment to actually say, okay, I'm not happy. Something needs to Change and perhaps this person can help me. Well, I think I've always, I think because of, you know, just, just, you know, studying, coaching, studying nlp, understanding that I, you know, we can't change other people's behaviors, we can only change our responses to other people behavior. And having seen evidence of that in my working life, of how powerful that can be, just that knowledge that we, we, you know, you own moment to moment, how things go for you, you change your response, you change the situation. So I think I've kind of been open to that. And, you know, it paid off in spades because, you know, working with her, meeting her, literally, it's changed both of our lives. Oh, wow. Wow. Can I ask what has been the hardest thing for you to own about your story? Definitely the imposter syndrome of, you know, who am I to help people write books. Because I think when I stepped outside of the publishing industry, I had the weight of, you know, hundreds of incredibly intelligent people who are total experts in books on my shoulder, saying, well, what on earth do you know? And I kind of worked through that. But then when we started the literary agency, which I run with two friends of mine, and I sort of felt like I was stepping back into the pub, into the publishing industry as a literary agent, that really triggered my like, oh my God, I don't know, people are going to think I'm an absolute idiot, you know, particularly because I worked in marketing and not editing editorial. Although actually people who work in marketing, they're the best. She says, hoping none of her editorial friends listen to this, but actually. So it was believing in yourself. It was believing in myself and, and the thing that got me through it, you know, the thing that when I'm hovering over hitting send on an email because somebody's going to go, who the hell are you? It was like, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for my client. I love that. And I owe it to her to stop being pathetic and just hit send. But you're. That is so important because what you're saying is you're standing for something far more important than your own fears and listening to them. And I think what we can all do is get caught up in our own head, our own concerns, our own worries. And then, and then we get stuck and stagnant and wonder why we're a bit lost and don't know what we're doing. But actually taking a stand for something bigger than yourself is what got you through. Definitely, definitely. I've also, you know, one of the Post it notes I've got stuck on my my wall above my desk at home is what's the worst that can happen? What's the my I have. My basis is always. I'll still have my husband, my kids are still healthy. Everything will be fine. That's when I'm in real fear mode. I go back to the absolute basics of what helped me to thrive. And that's my, that's my, my other postcard post postcard poster I have is you're still helping people when you're asking them for money. Oh, well, we're gonna cut to a break and when we get back, Jessica's gonna give us a few tips on how to write our story or own our story. Welcome to women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic Women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Nicole Goodman. And I'm Lauren Mishkon and this is the Self Care Club podcast. The advice for self care today is endless and can feel like yet another overwhelming job for women. The Self Care Club is part social experiment, part reality show. Every episode we trial a different self care practice, live it to the letter for a week and report back to you on the results. Will it actually improve your well being or will it be another waste of your time? We test out self care so you don't have to. Welcome to the Self Care Club. My name is Ingrid Marsh and I host the Radical Wellbeing show supporting women's well being. On my show I bring you ordinary women like me and you who are sharing their unique stories. Women who have refused to be defined by their pains, to be silenced by stigma or crushed by stereotypes and who are taking back their power. And together, our mission is a simple one and that's to inspire you to kick away the roadblocks too. To don your wings and be the person that you were born to be. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring and empowering? At Nurturing Birth we offer approved doula training courses across the UK which are facilitated by an award winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer. Explore the doula role and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more@nurturingbirth.co.uk hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover and mental health advocate and you can listen to my show. Get booked here at Women's Radio station daily at 5am and 5pm throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chapter authors, publishers and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch@presentersomensradiostation.com join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. You're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station is creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradiostation, that's womensradio, Stn or Facebook. Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Welcome back to Women's Radio Station. I am Nicole Goodman and you are listening to the Femaling Show. I am joined with Jessica Killingley and Jessica is hopefully going to give us some tips in how we can actually own our story or write a few pages of our story. Whatever she's gonna, whatever she's gonna let us on. We want to know, like, the practical element of how to write a book, how to write a blog and how someone can just step into what's happened to them so they can possibly help someone else. So most people I work with do have businesses in kind of in terms of their coaches or consultants, although there are some people that come to me that don't, but by the time I finish with them, they do. Because when you want, if you want to tell your story and you want it to help people, the thing that I always kind of say to them is like, and then what? What's going to happen after the book? The book is the beginning, the book isn't the end point. So that's often why actually people end up going, oh, well, maybe I, I can carry on, you know, becoming a speaker or something like that after the life of the book. But I think in terms of, even if you don't ever want to do anything like that, and, you know, maybe you're just blogging and you just want to share your journey, I think what we were speaking about earlier, about connecting to the emotions, so, you know, you could start by writing, you know, the chrono, the chronology of what happened to you in a particular thing, but then going back over it and thinking about, well, what did that. What. What was I thinking at that time? What did it mean? How have I processed it? And again, what we were saying about writing from the. From the scar, not from the wound, which is something that Elizabeth Gilbert talks about in Big Magic, which is actually a great book to read if you're wanting to kind of help, have help in that creative journey. Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. I love her. So, yes, I think it is about thinking about what are the. What are the emotions? And often people ask me, like, oh, well, I don't know how to tell my story because it kind of involves other people and like, oh, my, I can't write about my family or things like that. And it's laughing because that's, That's. Yeah, those, those thoughts. But, you know, you. It's not about the details. It's not about, oh, my husband was a bastard when he did this to me. Because, you know that there are other people involved. And yes, so maybe there are things that you might not be able to write about in detail, but you own your emotional response to those incidences and you can. You have the right to talk about those things. Yes. So I think it's about. One of the things that I think can stop it being self indulgent is thinking about how would somebody else who was going through this benefit from this? And, you know, even a very simple think about, like, you know, were you journaling when you were going through what you went through? What were the journaling prompts that, you know, or now if you were going to say to somebody, you know, that was going through something, thinking about, actually the things that I felt really useful was asking, well, what would good look like, you know, creating them? You know, what would be, oh, he's woken up. He has, he has. He was. He was nice and sleepy, but now he's got something to say about blogging. So I think those. I think those are things. But, you know, I think starting to just, you know, if you're just writing for yourself and you never want anyone to read it, just go for it. And what did you call it? You didn't call it a shitty first draft? Oh, just. Yeah, just the crap first. If you're writing a book, like, your first draft is going to be absolute garbage. I mean, that's. Just give yourself permission to just get it done because, you know, you can then have something that you can work on. So I think when people work with me inside the Academy. I think that's. That's a moment that's very freeing for people because they realize that actually it's just about getting it down on paper and then you go back and you kind of make it good. And often when people, we talk a lot about how they can work in their personal story, so often I'd say just go and write the personal bits first, and then, you know, you don't have to sit down and write a book. Chapter one, page one. In fact, I would advocate that you don't do it like that because you plan it out beforehand so you can kind of cherry pick. Well, today I feel like writing about this. Yeah, it's a creative process. Absolutely. And. And giving yourself grace because, you know, there are some people inside the Academy who are writing really quite personal stories about grief, and they didn't think that they were necessarily going to have a business. And like, well, what's the business around that? But it's that realization that actually, once I've told my story and it's out there, I have a bigger calling and I can go and talk to groups of people. I could have a. I could have a community where people who are going through this can come and meet, and I could be the person that brings those people together. And those are the sort of. When I say about having a business, it's. It's like the fledgling steps of actually, how can you start to bring people together in a kind of community? And you can do that in a. In a friendship as well, doesn't it? Yeah, it does, absolutely. But it's like once you realize that you have a story to. To tell them that you can help people, how can you actually step into doing it? Not formally, but yes, it could be. It could be just like, actually, you know, we're gonna have a coffee morning where every, you know, everyone I know who's been through these particular fertility issues comes together and it's. And it starts to grow into something and it's. You know, and it could be that you. I mean, what. He's singing now. Melis is very amused. I think he's. I think he. This is the first time he's been in front of a microphone and he thinks he's on and he's really using it. So tell us. Tell us how people can find you. If they wanted to work with you, where would they find you? Because you've mentioned the Academy and you mentioned a few things that are going on. So just tell us about how someone can probably come and. Come and hang out with me on Instagram, I'm just Jessica Killingly on Instagram. Then you'll be able to see the furry menace that is Elvis in my Insta stories, he features large. So I have a writing academy, the Rockstar Writers Academy. That's the one I'm in. Yeah. And like, why rock star star writers? Because it's like I want coaches and consultants to be absolute rock stars in their fields. I want them to feel like they can step into being the expert in their niche. And you know I'm a marketing nerd. Right. 20 plus years in marketing. A book is an amazing strategy if you are a coach or a consultant, whether you work B2C with clients or B2B because you go into businesses, whatever you do, if you help somebody and you, and that's monetized for you in some way, even in a small way, even because they pay you ten pounds a month to come and be in your Facebook group or something, having a book is an incredible tool to help, you know, attract more clients into that business and, and show people what I think a lot of times. And you'll know this from your coaching, when somebody doesn't work with you, as when they decide to not work with you, it's not because they don't think you're great. It's because they don't believe in themselves enough to that, you know, you'll be able to get them the results. Yeah. Your book, yeah. Is the vehicle that then teaches them all of the things to make them believe in themselves enough to know that actually coming to work with Nicole as a coach, she's the woman for me because in I've got so much from her book, I've already taken so much, so many steps and got so much self belief from just her book. Holy moly. Working with her in person is going to be amazing. So that's the kind of, that's what we talk about. So inside the academy there's all the stuff around practical how you know, how do you plan and write your book. But there's also the stuff about how do you make sure your book is going to resonate with your target market and so you can sell it, who you're talking and who you're. And actually, and that's one of the reasons why it can be slow to start because we, I make people do a lot of work around thinking about like who is their target reader, how are they going to sell the book? Because lots of people come to me going, oh, I've been, I've written my book it's on Amazon. It's not selling. Can you help me? And I'm like, yeah, I'll just get my time machine and we'll go back to before you started and you thought about what you were trying to achieve before you started. So, yeah, so the Rockstar Rice Academy. So it's a, it's a membership and it's, you know, it's, there's a 12 month curriculum. So you can, you can write and plan and publish in that 12 month window, can't you, Nicole? Not if I'm two months behind. That's gonna catch up. I've set a day aside next week to sit brilliant and write. It's much, much less time consuming than people think. I think people think that they have to have a special writing shed at the bottom of their garden and they have to do a whole day a week, every week. But really, you know, if you're writing a book, it's 30 to 40,000 words, you know, that's a couple of sessions over like 12 weeks. We'll get you your first draft. Like, you know, two or three hours a week for 12 weeks will get you a crappy first draft. A crappy first draft and then you build on it from there. I mean, how inspiring is this woman? I can'. I imagine everyone at home who's listening or wherever you are listening to this. I'm sure you all want to now write a book. Yes. Do it. Do it. And you're actually inspiring me to actually get off my backside and just get on with it because I do have an important story to tell and I do know that all the things that I've been through and all the things that have led me here now talking to you are going to be able to help other women. Absolutely. And that's what it's all about. And procrastination, I think, is just, you know, it's just fear. Like I'm massively procrastinating about starting my podcast because we can share tips. Well, absolutely. So. But it's that thing I say, oh, I'm too busy. But then if you really want to do something, you find the time. So I think it's about being kind to yourself, that if you haven't found the time, it's because you haven't, you know, maybe the, the, you know, you've not got quite aligned with the right idea or you're a little bit nervous. There's a bit of imposter syndrome. Yeah. And so it's being kind to yourself about working through that because Then when you do, that's when you're like, oh, my God, I cannot wait to get this book out there. I cannot wait to be talking about it. I cannot wait to be singing about it from the rooftops. And the thing is that I have learned is that you have to keep continually working through it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't just suddenly say, right, I'm done with the imposter syndrome. I mean, Elvis definitely agrees. You can't just say, I'm done with the imposter syndrome. And then that's it. Like a magic wand, it's gone. It. It doesn't. Unfortunately, it keeps coming back. New level, new devils. Totally, totally, totally. And it's just a constant. But the good thing about that is that, you know, once you've done it once, you've got no more excuses. Yes. And you know how to work through it quicker. You get through it quicker every time. And that's. I mean, I'm a big. I'm a big fan of discipline. Because, actually, I think discipline equals freedom. Because when you. You know, when you're disciplined with your schedule and your diary, like, I don't have a to do list. I have what's in my diary. It's not in my diary. It's not going to get done. And I was spending so much time getting to the end of the week feeling crap, because all I could look at was what I didn't do rather than what I did do. So now I focus on, well, how do I want to feel at the end of the week? So what do I need to do to feel like that? Laughing because he's annoying. I want to feel like Elvis is going to get turned into a handbag. Right. I'm going to end with another quote. This is my favorite quote of all time. It's by Marianne Williamson. Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. It's not just in some of us. It's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. Jessica, thank you so much for being on the show. I think you absolutely epitomise that quote entirely. Thank you. I couldn't think of a better one to end on. Thank you. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station Supporting Women's well Being Women's Radio Station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring and empowering? At Nurturing Birth we offer approved doula training courses across the UK which are facilitated by an award winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more@nurturingbirth.co.uk hi everyone and welcome to the Femaling Show. I am your host Nicole Goodman and I am a woman's identity expert and coach. As women we fall into different phases of identity through our adult life and during these our challenges can look pretty similar. Here at wrs, I will be talking to you about the real issues we all face and even the ones we can silently see struggle with. Through honest, heartfelt conversation. Here at Femaling, you will learn how to accept yourself, understand yourself and be yourself. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. 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