Female – Ing – Joy Marchese, Guilt And Parenting

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Femaling show. I am Nicole Goodman and you are here at women's radio station. And today's episode is all about parenting. We are tackling parenting. I know we can't tackle it all in one episode, but lucky me, I am joined by the gorgeous Joy Marchese. I got it right. Just so happy. Joy is a mother, of course, authority, speaker, educator, and founder of Positive Discipline UK and co founder of iGrow Co, which she'll tell us more about a bit later. For over 20 years, Joy has worked with thousands of children, parents, teachers, and professionals around the globe, helping them to foster a happy and flourishing environment in the home, in schools, and in the workplace. Joy, welcome to femaleing. Thank you for having me here. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to have you here, and I'm so excited that you've entered into my life because I really feel like I need you very much in my life. So what was it? A positive flourishing environment in the home. That sounds gorgeous. So before we came on, I asked Joy to give me a few topics that she would like us to talk about today. And Joy, you gave us so many juicy subjects that actually I didn't know which ones to choose. So there's a couple that I would really like to touch on, if that's okay with you. Debunking the myth of the perfect parent or child. Love that. Using the iceberg metaphor to understand behavior. I have no idea what that means. Don't worry, I'll explain it all and how not to become your child's inner critic. I think I might have already done that. So if I can backpedal, that would be great. Parent guilt, which is one that I really wanted to bring here today, didn't I? And alternatives to rewards and punishments. How does that sound? That sounds great. That sounds like a lot. In an hour. We'll cover as much as we can. We'll cover as much as we can. And there was so much that you put into the document that you very kindly sent back to me that I actually thought you and I could do a series of all this stuff. So should we start with the iceberg metaphor? Sure. What does that mean? So basically, we look at behavior a little bit differently than a lot of kind of behaviorism programs out there. So what we see, if you imagine in your mind an iceberg, and if you imagine the tip of the iceberg that you see outside of the water, that's the behavior that you see, right? That's the behavior of your child. Or adults. And when you look at that behavior, it's only 10, 15% of what's really going on. Okay. But because that's what we see, it's like that's where our focus goes. But we look at behavior a little bit differently because we know that all behavior has a purpose. Okay. So we look at it more as a symptom than as a cause. So if you look at what's below the iceberg, the 85, 90%, there's usually a belief behind the behavior. So the way we look at it is that it's our belief systems and what we think about ourselves, others in the world that drive our behaviors. And so it's really important when you think about. Every human being has two basic needs, right? You have, besides food, shelter, all, you know, our basic needs for survival. We have two basic needs. Belonging. So to have a sense of connection with ourselves, our family, the greater community, and a sense of belonging, significance or contribution, sense of purpose. And you were gonna say that correctly. So if one or both of those needs is not being met, we feel discouraged. And when we feel discouraged, we tend to misbehave, as people would call it, even as adults. Okay. So if we don't feel like we belong in a certain situation or we don't feel like we're contributing in some way, that's when we can start to feel insecure. Exactly. Adults and kids. Yes, kids. It's probably a little bit more transparent, I would say. Would that be fair to say that because adults do misbehave, as we say, but we do it a bit more subtly. Right. Judgmentally. Exactly. Or passive aggressively or whatnot. So, okay, so this iceberg metaphor, for example, you have a two and a half year old daughter, don't you? Yeah. So do you apply this in your own parenting? Yes. And there's a few things to consider. Go for it. Sometimes we see behavior as a misbehavior, and it's not a misbehavior at all. So it's not always a belief system that's driving the behavior. It's actually. It could be other things. For example, is it developmental? Okay, so when my daughter is throwing a temper tantrum. Right. Or if a toddler bites another child, that's not misbehavior. That's actually age appropriate. They're trying to figure out their world. They don't have the brain development to self regulate the way we do. They don't have the communication skills to communicate. Hence the biting. It doesn't mean the biting is okay. And we should. Or the temper tantrum. You know, we want to continue it, but we need to respond differently when we punish. I remember my brother was a biter growing up, and my mother asked the people, he'll be so pleased that you brought this up. Oh, you're the biter. Right. And there's. I get this from parents all the time. My toddler's bit biting, you know, and when my mother asked the pediatrician about it, he said, well, bite him back, and then he'll know it hurts and he'll stop doing it. Imagine. Oh, my God. That was his advice. That was his advice. I mean, we're talking, what, 45 years ago, right. Parenting was so different. But I've had parents tell me, they've asked me about that. It's the same thing with spanking. Is it okay to spank my child? And we always go back to when you apply any sort of strategy. What is the child learning? Yeah. So when you bite them back, what are they really learning? Yeah, yeah. That it's okay to bite. Yeah, for sure. So it's understanding where the behavior is, what's driving it. So is it age appropriate? Yes. You know, and developmental. There's also other things that can have an impact. So, for example, I'm ADHD and as an adult, and I was as a child. And so some of the what we see as misbehaviors are actually what we call innocent behaviors, and they're behaviors that are associated with a special need. So when I was growing up and fidgety and touching things and moving around, I wasn't misbehaving. I wasn't doing it to distract others. I didn't even realize I was doing it. The challenge is because my teacher saw it as a misbehavior and responded with punishment. She actually made me sit on my hands the whole day. Unless I was eating or writing, I was sitting on my hands. Imagine back then. I mean, I don't know how old you are, but ADHD wasn't as common as it was. It wasn't a thing. Yeah, it wasn't a thing. I don't even know if they had it as a diagnosis. Diagnosis. Let's say I was called hyperactive, fidgety, impulsive. But all things that were deemed as, like in inverted commas. Wrong. Yes. And misbehaviors. Right. So we call them innocent behaviors because they're not really misbehavior. The problem is, if you respond to innocent behaviors as if they're a misbehavior by punishing that leads to discouragement. So because I was humiliated and had to sit on my hands and was frustrated, I felt. I didn't feel a strong sense of belonging. I wasn't able to contribute. Right. And so. Because vital things were taken away from me. Exactly. So I felt discouraged. And then I did misbehave. I remember telling this business. So it created it, interestingly. So that's why we. It's really important how we respond to behaviors. Oh, my God. I'm literally got a ticker tape running through my head now. Of all the ways in which I. Okay, so can I give you an example of something that I struggle with and something I think all parents probably struggle with? Getting my kids to bed. Right. And I think that happens when they're 2 or when they're, in my case, 12. Yes. My kids do not listen to me when they. When it's bedtime. In fact, they get more hyperactive, they get more playful and they do things. They are very funny, but they're also really annoying because I just want to go to bed and me and my husband want to go downstairs and watch Netflix. So that's not innocent behavior, is it? That is being basically disobedient. Okay, well. Oh, yeah, there is also. There is. So you have daughters, right? I've got two daughters. Two daughters? Yeah. 12 and nine. Perfect. So especially the 12 year old, she's going through a very typical process that we call individuation. It's actually age appropriate. She's supposed to be challenging authority. Okay. And if you. Look, I know it's not good news, but it is good to know that who your child is today is not who they will be forever. Okay. That's important. Yeah. Right. It makes you feel like, okay, actually, you just climbed inside my head and you just picked that thought out and chucked it away. So thank you for that. Yeah. And the good thing, See, what she's doing by individuating is she's trying to figure out who she is separate from you. Yep. It's a very normal process. It doesn't mean it's okay for her to be, you know, aggressive or nasty or give an attitude or, you know, that's not. That's not okay. But if you can just shift your mindset and understand, okay, this is normal. This is normal. And what can we do about it? Yeah, well, I'm interested in the last part because I said to my husband last night, this happens every single solitary night. And then what he does. I'm not even gonna tell you what he Does. It's so embarrassing. Oh, I know. I'll tell you what he does. He basically, the only way to get them to listen to. He's gonna kill me. Does he bribe? No, no, no. He threatens to pour water on them, and for some reason, they just do not want to get wet. And he goes, right. And all he does is pick up a water bottle. And the minute he picks the water bottle up, they scuttle off into their bedrooms, and then he puts it back down, and it's the most hilarious thing. Like, why do they do that? It's like the bucket challenge. Do you remember the bucket challenge? Yeah, I do. Obviously, I realize that that's probably not the most helpful way to get our kids to listen to us, but any tips would be great. And any parent that's listening whose child doesn't want to go to bed. Okay, so there's a few things here. So first, just. I love the story of your husband because, you know, parents revert to threats and bribes and rewards and punishment and all of this. And this is the challenge. Depending on the child, you have. See, if I was the child and being threatened, I would have said, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead, throw the water. Yeah. They haven't worked that one out yet, right? They will. They will. And when they challenge you to that point and they say, go ahead, do it, is he gonna follow through and do it? Yeah, that's the question. Right, Yeah, I recognize. And if he does, then how is your daughter going to feel awful? It's not pleasant. So you have to. One, be careful of giving any sort of empty threats, as we call them, because kids really learn how to play that. What they really learn is. You don't mean what you say. Yeah, that's okay. Well, I don't. He does a bit more. I don't. And so that's really important. I think getting routines are a whole episode in themselves as far as morning routines, getting them out of school, up and out, and bedtime routines, getting them to sleep. But I will tell you, the importance of routines are just incredible. So I do routine. My daughter has a very solid bedtime routine. She knows what's coming. And children, even when they're 12, they thrive on routines. And the difference is they have to come up with them. Oh, I love this. Okay. If we impose our routines, what we would like on them, of course they're not gonna do it. We have to sit down and problem solve with them. So I'm gonna go home after work today, and I'm gonna ask her what routine she would like to put into place for bedtime. Okay, so there's a few questions that I'm gonna have you say to her. Okay, we're gonna cut to a break in a second, so can you hold off on that and then we'll come back afterwards and then you can tell me what questions to ask. We will be back in a minute with more insight from Joy. Welcome to Women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future Classic women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. 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So we talked about having routine, bedtime routine. Even as adults, we have our bedtime routines. Making a cup of chamomile tea or, you know, like reading a book, whatever it is that helps calm us down. Right. So couple things with creating routines. We tend to want to impose our routine on kids. And even from a very young age, we can ask them what has to be done before you go to sleep? You know, just ask them. And with your daughters, they're old enough, have them write it down. So we need to brush our teeth, we need to lay out our clothes for the next day, whatever it is they need to do before bed. And then you ask them, so what do you think should happen first? And they're always going to want to do the fun things first. Right? And then you'll say, what happens if, you know, that doesn't get done or this doesn't get done? So I'm always asking what and how questions. We call them curiosity questions because it lets them think. It gets them thinking, not why, what and how questions. So, and then how much time do you think each thing will take? Yeah, and let them use a timer to time themselves. You know, brushing, brushing our teeth. Three minutes, you know, like, let them see how long. Yeah, let them see, I know it's supposed to be right. And then ask them so what do you want to do? If you get everything done and we have extra time, how do you want to spend that time? Because what they really want, by jumping around and being excited, they really want to get your attention and they want that time with you. I know. Oh, it's so sweet now that you put it like that. You're absolutely right. Okay, so get them to make their routine, kind of design it together. And then when they have done everything, which they're supposed to do. Haha. She says then we'll get to hang out. Yeah. And let them post the routine. It needs to be visual. Like let them put it up, they can draw pictures or they can, you know, write it on the whiteboard, wherever it is. And then when they're not keeping the routine, you let the routine be the boss rather than you and you say, what's next? Yeah. Because they wrote it. Yes. Yes. Beautiful. So there's buy in. Okay. I love that. Thank you. You're welcome. For anyone. And actually that probably goes into so many areas of parenting. Not just bedtime. Yes. Morning routines, anything where they actually need to get up and get themselves going. Love that. Thank you. Thank you for that. So can we go on to debunking the myth about the perfect parent and or child? Yes. So I think that's what I do see that a lot in terms of parenting and especially with mums. I can't speak on behalf of fathers, but we do really struggle with trying to be the perfect mom or having to be the perfect mum. And the pressure that that can put on your parenting and how it informs your parenting can make a whole world of difference. What do you see happening amongst that? So I have a lot of, I do parents, I do parents workshops and talks, but I also do parent coaching and I work one on one or two on one with parents. And one of the biggest things we have to move past from the beginning is a lot of parents come to me with the intention of becoming the perfect parents. And I, you know, and I'm very clear, that doesn't exist. Yeah. You know, a perfect parent doesn't exist. A perfect child doesn't exist. And if you know one, someone that you think is perfect, how do you really feel about them? Right. Like, I mean, when you think about it, you know. Yeah. I put someone in my head. Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. When I see that perfect child, it worries me actually, because I know there's something going on there because it doesn't exist and it's not being expressed. Yeah. So first of all, it's striving to be the best person we can be, the best version of ourselves. And the good news? With Positive Discipline, which is the program that I use to teach parents, and it's what my book is based on. What's your book called? Positive Discipline. For today's busy and overwhelmed parents, it's quite a big time. We didn't have the choice. Just me and, you know, a lot of my friends. I don't like the word overwhelmed. And I said, well, have you ever felt overwhelmed? I don't know a parent out there that hasn't felt overwhelmed. But no one wants to admit the overwhelm. Oh. Oh, I. I am right. It's really interesting, isn't it, actually? Because I'm very happy to say right here, right now, oh, my God. I suffer with overwhelm all the time. But that's because I'm not overwhelmed today. So if I met you on a day when I was overwhelmed, would I be able. There's still so much shame in that. What's that about? Yeah. Why? We're allowed to be overwhelmed, aren't we? Got a lot going on. Yeah. Well, I haven't met a parent that isn't overwhelmed at times. And there are. There are ways that we can. We can, you know, we can have the balance, but it won't be all the time. 100% of the time, it doesn't exist. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think one of the beautiful things about this whole philosophy is that we really believe that mistakes are opportunities for growth. And that mindset is really important. Thank God. Right. I mean, because it's not even just, oh, I made a mistake. What can I learn? It's, yes. Yeah, I made a mistake. What can I learn? What can I teach my child? Well, the problem is with that, and I totally hear that, and I apply that in my life all the time. But I'm just putting my absolute mother hat on for a minute when I make that mistake in parenting, and I do, I mess it up a lot. The guilt that I can feel because it affects these little people. That's kind of a hard thing to have peace with. It is. And it's an opportunity. So I remember I have not. My daughter's only two and a half. Right. And she's actually. I'm really lucky. She's pretty easy. However, I remember the first time, I'm like, she heard me raise my voice at her. I couldn't believe it. The guilt hit me in seconds. But it was. I went into that kind of my Primitive brain, right? That reactive mode, the fight, flight, flow. And I just lost it for a second, you know, and, and people think, oh, well, you, you, you wrote a parenting book and you must be parent. First of all, there is no parent expert. Parenting is like a. You're constantly learning and growing. You'll never get there 100% right? So we're all human beings, we're all going to lose it. But I remember in that moment thinking, oh my gosh, what have I done? And then I, I paused and I said, okay, what's the opportunity here? What are you going to do? And this is the thing. When another child hurts another child with their words or, or whatnot, what do we usually tell them to do? When another child hurts. Hurts another child with their words, they say something mean or with their actions. Well, I would tell just be kind and just walk away or just let it go or whatever. But if they've said something to another child, if my child has said something to another child, what do you tell them to do? That's mean. What do I tell them to do? Say sorry. Yeah, right. Say you're sorry. And what do they say? Sorry. And then we say, no, say it like you mean it. And they go, sorry. They still don't mean it. No, I know. Why do we do that? And also, I don't want my kids apologizing for something that they're not sorry for. Well, so this is the deal. A real apology. So getting back to your. It took me a while to get there, by the way. Sorry. Is that the right answer? No, that's okay. So that's the thing, right? You see just there, you're looking for what's right. Yeah. Yeah. What's the right answer? People, please. All of a sudden. Yeah. So this goes really deep rooted into our belief system, which is a whole nother episode. But I will say that, that. So when you lose it on your kids and you're feeling that guilt, right? Or I lose it on my husband, not so much my daughter, but I lose it on my husband. And you're feeling that guilt. Cause you know that even if sometimes you meant it. Cause in that moment, right? And also sometimes they can be really, really, really naughty. And it's hurtful, right. It's awful. So this is what you can do, an apology, a true apology has four steps. Okay. Okay. Do I need a pen? And the. I'm sorry. I'm doing a blog post on this soon. So I can send it to you, but you can write it down if you want. But the first step, the apology comes third. Okay. The first step is to recognize what you've done. And I like to say, name it to tame it. Beautiful. So, for example, I would say I lost my temper and yelled, full stop. Okay. The problem is people will say, I lost my temper and yelled because you did this. That's a backhanded apology. It's not really helpful. So you name each other. Exactly. You name it to tame it. I lost my temper and yelled. The next step, which is kind of happening simultaneously, is to reconnect. Right. So you're reconnecting one by maybe getting down on their level, making eye contact or making physical contact, a hand on the shoulder, and by validating their feelings. So you might say, I lost my temper and yelled. I can see that really scared you. Or that hurt your feelings. Now, can I tell you, if you do those first two steps, most of the time you don't even need the. The apology. I mean, my husband, I'm such a blamer that when I take responsibility, when I take responsibility, he's like, it's okay. The minute I say I lost my temper and yelled, he goes, it's okay, babe. And I haven't even apologized. That's how powerful it is, those first two steps. And kids are much more forgiving than adults. They'll forgive you almost. It's okay, mama. I mean, it's true. They are. That breaks my heart. Right. The third step is to then say, I'm sorry. Yeah. But then there's a fourth step, and this is where most people, they falter because. Because the person has forgiven them after those first three steps, they usually move on. The problem is, if you skip the fourth step, you might continue to keep making the same mistakes over and over. Because mistakes are opportunities for growth until you keep making the same one and you're not really learning from them. You have to learn from the mistakes. Right. So the last one is to really resolve it and come up with solutions. So, for example, I might say, I lost my temper and yelled. I can see that really scared you. I'm so sorry. Next time I'm going to take a few deep breaths, or next time I'm going to walk away and calm down, or how can we speak to each other respectfully? Right. So it's problem solving. It's always going to that solution. Together teaching. I love that they're doing that together. Yeah, I love that. Thank you. That. That is so, so, so. Well, it's so helpful because also, we don't need to be perfect, but we do need to be aware of who we are and what we're bringing all the time. And I think that a lot of mums fall into this. I've got to do everything right so that my child turns out to be this, I don't know, perfect person. And they're a total reflection of me. Therefore, they have to be a certain way. And I think we can get very dragged into, you know what you said before the break when you pulled that thought out of my head of, by the way, the girl that she is now is not the woman that she's going to be when she's older. Because we do, we, we, we what? I worry all the time about who my kids are going to be and how they're going to be. And that would be an absolute reflection of my parenting. And it's the biggest job that you're ever gonna do in the whole entire world. Right. So when I lose it with my kids, and I do lose it often, they're very feisty, they're very spirited, they're very opinionated and I absolutely adore that in them. But it's also an incredibly hard thing to raise. But now there's a four step solution. And actually I do apologize to my kids a lot, but I don't do it in these steps. And I think there is, there is definitely still blame there. I'm so sorry. But to be fair, you didn't eat your dinner, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. And it's amazing because my husband and I had like our first fight in front of her and I did these four steps in front of her with him. Oh, beautiful. And then we hugged and it was so powerful. We're going to cut to a break and we'll be back with joy after that. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website, womensradiostation.com for more information. Hi everyone and welcome to the Femaling Show. I am your host, Nicole Goodman and I am a women's identity expert and coach. As women, we fall into different phases of identity through our adult life and during these, our challenges can look pretty similar. Here at wrs, I will be talking to you about the real issues we all face and even the ones we can silently struggle with. Through honest, heartfelt conversation. Here at Femaling, you will learn how to accept yourself, understand yourself and be yourself. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station Its Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. 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We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio Station can give voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's well being. Hello. Welcome back to the femaleing show. I'm your host Nicole Goodman and today I'm joined by Joy Marchese. I did it. We are at women's radio station and we are talking about parenting. And in this part, Joy, I would love to go to how not to become your child's inner critic. It's a big one. Yes, it's a big one. And I do hear myself saying things that are quite negative to my kids, like, oh my God, you're, I don't know, you're so noisy or you're not listening to what I'm saying and I know, and I catch myself sometimes and think this is how they're learning about themselves. You know, they're learning that they're noisy. And noisy is going to equal wrong. And so help. And it's not just about, you know, when you hear the word, the term inner critic, people think it's when you criticize. And yes, that can be part of it, but it can even be when you say something that sounds positive. It's still building in them, their belief systems. So it's really interesting. So how do you. Your words, your actions, everything you do, your children are watching, they're listening, Right. So your greatest tool as a parent is modeling what you're modeling with your behavior and your behaviors. First and foremost, they're not listening as much as they're watching. So that's important to know because when you think about, they're definitely not listening. Yeah. And when you think about, think about a baby, right? A toddler, a baby, when they learn to eat, right, and you try to feed them with a spoon, you don't just put the spoon in front of them and say, open your mouth. You say, open your mouth and you open yours and you chew num, num, num. And you swallow and you exaggerate all the movements, right. So that they can understand how they're watching you. Right. One of the first behaviors that baby learns to do is smile because everyone's in their face, oh, you're so cute. And they're smiling, right? So because of mirror neurons in the brain, we learn by watching. It's that monkey see, monkey do. So your behaviors are really important. And I want to give you an example because I do a lot of talks for parents about. I work with teenagers. I've been a secondary teacher for, you know, well, I've been a teacher for over 20 years, but a secondary teacher for probably 15 of those years. And so working with teenagers, you know, big question that parents have, and you'll start worrying about this in a few more years, is alcohol, right? And alcohol and other drugs and all of that. And the first question I ask parents is, well, what's your relationship with alcohol? And it doesn't mean you can't have a glass of wine in front of your children. However, are you coming home after a long day of work and saying, oh God, I'm so stressed out, I need a glass of wine? What you're modeling for them is that alcohol is a coping mechanism. It's a stress reliever. We self medicate with alcohol and they will start having that relationship with Alcohol. We don't even realize it. What you want to model for them is that we drink alcohol as a beverage with a meal. We pair a night chardonnay with a nice steak or whatever it is so that they're learning that positive relationship with it. It's the same thing with technology, right? When I do a lot of talks about technology, and the first thing I ask parents is, what's your relationship with technology? Is it okay to tell kids, well, you can't have your phone at the dinner table, but daddy's on his. But daddy's on his, or mommy's on hers. That's actually not okay. Like, I'm sure as a kid, you weren't okay with the do as I say, not as I do. I mean, my. It was always do as I say, not as I do. And that wasn't okay. Well, why would that be okay now? My daughter said to me this morning, because Tuesdays my husband takes to school, so I always sort of go downstairs and I'm with them, and I can just go a bit slower on a Tuesday. And she was like, well, if I've got to get dressed, why aren't you getting dressed? I said, well, I'm gonna get dressed in a minute. Well, you need to get dressed now. So it's exactly the same thing. They're watching. They're watching. Like, if you're telling me to do something, you need to do it. Yeah. So there's so the ends. And as adults, we also have things we can do that kids can't. Right. We can drive, we can vote. So there are roles and responsibilities that we can do as adults that kids can't. So it is finding that balance. However, going back to the inner critic and the language we use with children. So this is really important. Even the language. You have two girls, Right. The language that we use with girls all the time. You're so pretty. You're so beautiful. We think that's a compliment. And I'm not saying you can never tell your daughter. I'm very aware of it. Every time I say it to them, I'm very aware of it. And that becomes their inner voice. And it could be their inner coach that builds them up, or it could become their inner critic. You have to be pretty. If you're not pretty, you won't be liked. Yeah, you have to be pretty to please mommy and daddy or to please. That's an inner critic. So even though we said something kind, it still develops that. So we have those two voices. All of us have those two Voices in our head, our inner criticism. Right. Yeah. It's no wonder mothers are overwhelmed. And our inner coach. Right. Our coach encourages us. And as mothers, you know, we have our own inner critic. You're not good enough as a mother, you're failing as a parent. You're not giving enough at work, you're not giving enough at home. You know, you're messing up. So the first thing we need to do is focus on our own inner critic and lowering. We have to teach our kids how to lower the voice of their inner critic and raise the voice of their inner coach. So we do that. How many times have you said something like, so I grew up. I was always. I was moving quickly. Right. I was always moving around and I was always getting hurt, tripping, falling, you know, always. And so my, My family called me Calamity Jane. Yeah. Right. And they just, you know, and I grew up with the belief system. Yeah. That I'm clumsy. Yeah. So even as an adult, when I do something, I go, I'm so clumsy. Yeah, I'm so clumsy. But you don't check in to see if you are actually clumsy. And that's my inner. That's my inner critic. And so how we speak about ourselves in front of our children is really important. And then how we speak to them. So there's a lot of this just what's the language we're using with ourselves and with our children? So one of the ways to break this kind of habit is to ask curiosity questions. So instead of telling your daughters something about themselves, ask them, so what do you think about it? How do you feel? Well, every time I do that, my kids are like, stop coaching me. We can't overuse it, number one. And it has to be really authentic and genuine. You have to really want to know. That's why we say curiosity questions. If you're not really curious, don't ask. Yeah. Because they see. They see through it. It has to be authentic in that moment. Well, it's more in light when they don't know what to do about something that's happening at school or something like that. What do you think that should happen? Oh, please don't coach me. Just tell me what you think I should do. That kind of thing. It's so interesting. And actually, you know, I'm sure everyone listening now is thinking about, is self reflecting and thinking about how they parent and how that's affecting their child and what this child is taking away. And. And it's kind of like just with the small example of, oh, you're so pretty. It is so impossible to know how they're going to take that away with them. So the compliments of, you know, me championing my daughter. Oh, well done. You did a really great piece of work. I'm really proud of you. Whereas that could be her inner coach, but it could also be right. I have to always, you know, that could create perfectionism in her. I don't know. Because it pleases mommy that she's always doing good work. I mean, it hasn't so far, but do you see what I mean? So it's impossible. How do you know? So the language you just used was perfect. Oh, yeah. Okay. No, no, no. Perfect in the sense. Oh, God. Remember, we don't like the word perfect except when it's an opportunity to teach. So I said I had an activity to do, and you, you led right into it because it has to do with how we use our language. And you, you just shared how. You said, oh, that's so great. I love it. It's really, you know, good job. So one way that we can develop our child's inner coach is through our language of encouragement. Yeah. And parents have been taught to use the language of praise. Yeah. Okay. And we have to be really careful of that. So the language you just used was praise. Yeah. So I want you, and I'm going to ask you now to close your eyes and I'm going to ask anyone listening to to close their eyes and just listen. Just listen and be a child and notice what you're thinking, feeling, and deciding as you hear this language. So just listen for a moment. All A's. You get a big reward. I am so proud of you. I'm glad you listened to me. I really like what you did. You're such a good girl. Now, just reflect for a minute. What are you thinking about yourself? How are you feeling and what are you deciding to do now? Before you answer, I'm going to use some different language, and I want you to see if you notice a difference. You worked hard. You deserve it. You must be so proud of yourself. Tell me, how do you feel about it? You know, I trust your judgment. You figured it out for yourself. You know I love you no matter what. So notice what you're thinking, how you're feeling. So what did you notice was the difference between that language? Well, the first one, I was uncomfortable. And I don't know if that was coming from a parent point of view or a child, but it was all based on how the parent was viewing me and what the result was. For the parent. So the parent was going to love me. The parent was proud of me. But then the second one, it was all about my achievement and what I had accomplished. Therefore it was mine and it was nothing to do with the other person. So I get what you mean about the now the critic and the inner coach, it's very, very different. And that praise, you know, as an educator I was taught to praise and use positive reinforcement when they were doing a good thing. The problem is praise, it's like candy. So I'm not saying you can never say I'm so proud of you to your daughters. A little bit is okay. Too much can make you sick. And when we say with over praising children, great job, good girl. I'm so proud of you. What it does is it creates approval junkies. Right? Like they need that fix of praise. Like you said, they become pleasers, they become perfectionists because it's about pleasing you. Basically what we've developed in them is an external locus of control. They're looking outward for their validation. And what we want them to do is look inward. We want them to have intrinsic motivation. I did it. Yeah, right. So the I don't even use descriptive praise. There's a lot of different language for using, you know, praising the process. Take the word praise out of it and use encouragement. Okay. It's about having encouraging others for their growth and development. Wow. Something so simple can have such a profound effect. And it's just how we use it. Yeah, it's how we use our language, I'll tell you. So my daughter, the first time she did a we on the potty, I was so excited. You know she potty training and you want to encourage them. It's amazing. And I was about to say chloe, I'm so proud of you. And I stopped and I said, chloe, you did pee pee on the potty. She turned around, she looked in the potty, she looked at it, she turned around and she threw her hands up in the air and she said, mama, I did it. That's what I want. Not I did it for you. We're going to cut to a break and we will be back very shortly. Welcome to women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us Different. Hi, I'm Meg Matthews. And I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Join us for a brand new show on women's radio station. It's the Meg's Menopause Show. Yes, for the time first, for the first time on radio, there's an entire show dedicated to the menopause. A fresh new approach where we inform you of all the choices and treatments that are out there, supportive and empowering. 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Welcome back to the FE Mailing Show. I'm your host Nicole Goodman. We are joined with Joy Marche Marque Marches. You say it, Marchese. It's not even that difficult. I'm sorry. That's okay. You were telling us in the break that you have a funny story that can highlight the difference between praise and encouragement. Would you mind sharing it with us? Sure. So everything I'm talking about, I know we're talking about parenting and children, but the whole philosophy is really about human interactions. So it's, it's within all of your relationships. So whether it's with your in laws or with your spouses or your colleagues, all of this can be applied in all areas. So I feel pretty confident in the classroom with my students applying this. I feel really confident with my own daughter and with my colleagues. But I am really terrible with my husband. That is where I falter. Is it wrong that I felt slightly gleeful that you did? Yeah, well, yes, because, you know, it's really, you know, I think there's a lot of expectations, I know from my friends sometimes that like, you know, oh, you must do everything right because, you know this. No, no, no, no. It's actually even more pressure because it's like, I know it. So when I don't do it, I'm like, I really messed up. Then the parent guilt, really. So I said, so. So with my husband, I'm really critical. I nag him. I, you know, all the things I don't do with my child, I do with him. Which really isn't. That's really interesting, isn't it? Well, because someone has to deal with the crap. He's the punching bag. He's the punching bag. And it's not really, it's not fair. So I find myself using those four steps of recovery very often with him. But what I've realized is my husband probably needs more encouragement than anyone, than my daughter than, you know, he really needs the encouragement. Because I'm always like, you know, like, put that away and do that. I mean, it's constantly, if he does something, I criticize it and then he goes, well, then do it if you're gonna criticize me. Why should I do it? I mean, he's, he's really right. So I remember one of the first times that. So I travel for work and I train teachers and parents kind of all over the world. And the first time I had to leave my daughter, she was only five months old and it was just a two day trip, so. Talk about guilt. I actually went into, I was in Heathrow Airport and I went into the bathroom and I Was throwing up just from the sickness of leaving her. It was really, really hard. But, you know, it's important to know that the feelings were there. But I really was able to turn it and say, what's the opportunity here? And I'll share with you what that was. But the next day. So I had the workshop the next day on a Saturday, and during the morning break, I called my husband, like, right away to see how things were going. Right. And I said, so, how's it going? He goes, oh, it's great. You know, she pooped, she. She ate, she slept, she. You know, he was going through the whole routine that we had kind of developed right with her. And he was. I could hear that he was so proud of himself. You know, he was really. It was going well, and. Because I think he was nervous as a new parent and, you know, to be alone with her for the weekend. And so I was about to say, babe, I'm so proud of you. I was about to say it, and I shut up for a moment, and I thought, what can I say that's encouraging? And I said, wow, it sounds like you're having a really great day. You must be pleased. Like, I just, you know, said it really calm. And he goes, yeah. He's like, I'm a great dad. And that moment was so powerful for me because if I had said, babe, I'm so proud of you, he wouldn't have got to that. It would have been like, he's doing it for me. He's doing. Did I do it right, Joy? You know, it would have been like that. Is he pleasing me? And the fact that I heard him say, I'm a great dad, I could hear the confidence. That's encouraging. Beautiful. That's empowering. That's your inner coach, right? That's your inner coach. And then he got to, I'm a great dad. He owned that. Yes. And has that forever now. Yes. And I can tell you his confidence. So, you know, I know you wanted to talk about guilt, and I'll bring it up here, because traveling for work is very difficult. Leaving her, you know, I mean, leaving all of them. But, you know, the parent guilt of, am I going to miss something important, a milestone, or, you know, is she going to miss me? And the funny thing is, she doesn't miss me. And at first I was thinking, oh, my gosh, she doesn't even care. She goes, bye, mama. See ya. You know, And I'm thinking, she doesn't. But actually, I'm looking at, what an opportunity. It's Building resilience in her. You know, she's actually feeling comfortable with other people. With me going away. I know that she has a secure attachment because she doesn't cry. You know, she's like, I love you. Have a good trip. You know, I mean, she knows that you always come back. I always come back. And, yeah, and the huge opportunity in me traveling for work is one. My husband's confidence as a father is, like, incredible. He is so competent and confident, and I don't have to worry. I mean, he's got it all sorted out. He's actually better with the routines, I think, than I am. And, oh, my husband definitely is, right. Definitely. And he. I think their relationship, their bond is just so huge because of that. And to me, that's the greatest gift. So I can let go of the guilt knowing that I'm giving this gift to both of them. So what do you say to parents that do carry a lot of guilt? Because like you said, you've never seen a parent that isn't overwhelmed at times. I've never seen a parent that doesn't have guilt at times as well. Absolutely. Guilt is par for the course. You'll have guilt till the day you die. Right. Like the parents. Guilt will never. You know what my friend's mom said to her? She was just about to go into hospital to have her baby. She said, oh, and by the way, on the way out, the nurse turns around to you and says, oh, and here's your pile of guilt. And just enjoy that for the rest of your life. You know what? Words of wisdom. Because it's there. It is there. However, majority of the time, it's a choice, right. To feel that guilt. You have to, you know, you can. It's there that's really powerful. And I think a lot of people might not say. I think people would push back on that. It's like, well, it's not a choice. Of course I don't want to feel guilty, but it is because you still choose it over feeling something else over seeing the opportunity. In the scenario, I had a lot of. I felt that I had a pretty good mindset around guilt, even though I do feel it. Parent guilt. However, there was a lot of pressure, outside pressure from friends. I mean, you know, my friends and family would say, isn't it hard for you to leave her? Don't you miss her? Of course I miss her. What a silly question. You know, I have, like. I mean, the pain sometimes that I miss her so much, you know? Of course I do. But it's Almost like they're wanting me to feel guilty in a sense. You know, I remember even, you know, breastfeeding. That was a big guilt for me. That was a really. And for many mothers. And I think. And again, I made a choice. I went to, you know, breastfeeding, the NCT class, and I, you know, it was really like I was gung ho about breastfeeding. I really believe in it. And I had a really challenging pregnancy, really challenging delivery. Everything that they teach you can go wrong went wrong in my one delivery. And I ended up losing like three liters of blood during the emergency C section. And I was so on, you know, on drugs. Like, you know, I wasn't thinking straight. And when they said, listen, we'd like to give you a blood transfusion, and I'm kind of weird about a stranger's blood in my body. It made me feel weird. And I. And I looked at them, I remember looking at them and I said, am I going to die without it? And they said, no. And I said, I don't want it. But no one explained to me at the time. I wasn't thinking, you know, no one said, but if you don't get the transfusion, you won't be able to produce milk because your body has to replace all that blood. Like, I wasn't thinking that. So my milk, you know, she got a bit. And we really tried and, you know, for six weeks, but because she was nine pounds when she was born. Oh, she's a big baby. Yeah, she was a. We needed to top her up. The formula, did you feel terrible guilt over that? So, well, I pumped and we tried and I gave her what I could and I let go of the guilt. You have to let go. And I said, and I have an act of courage to do that. And I remember the midwives coming or, you know, the people that come to your home, and they were really pushing me. And Chloe had a perfect latch. It wasn't that and the pumping. And I said, listen, I'm gonna give this a shot, but I'm not gonna stress over it because for me, a stressed out mommy is a stressed out baby. I agree. And. But it takes quite an evolved, reflective person to be able to take that stance. Well, you know, that's why. So at the very introduction of our book, we say, is positive discipline for you or for your child? And the answer is it's for both. But it starts with us. And that's why we have a chapter on self care. We have a chapter on using it in the workplace. We have a chapter on couples, you know, and. Because it really is. It does start with us. Yeah. And. And it is about personal growth and development. We're lifelong learners. We are. And I, and I think there's. There's such beauty in that. But there's also. Sometimes it just makes me feel quite tired. And I do realize that in order to become a better mother or to become the mum that I want to be, and by the way, I don't know what that is, and it's certainly not Mary Poppins by any means, but to become. Yeah, to become a better mum, then I have to be a better woman every day. And I have to work on myself. And the more work I've done on myself, the better a parent I have become. There's no doubt about it. The more invested I am in my children. It takes a lot of self development. It takes a lot of work. And now you've put a whole host of new juicy things on the table. This is. Your strategies are actually very, very simple. And they're very. They're. They're so obvious. Yeah. They're not rocket science. Well, they're just so obvious. Like, why have I not thought about this about bedtime before? It's ridiculous. But can I tell you, they're obvious and they're really applicable, but they are hard to implement. Thank you. And so there's no quick fix here. Okay. And even with the consciousness and the awareness, you won't do it all the time. And just know that and be okay with it. Thank you, Joy. You know, Joy, you have been the most wonderful, wonderful guest and I could talk to you forever. You've got to come back on, please. Will you come back on? Yes, Yes, I would love to. For anyone listening at home who is as moved as I am by your advice and your wisdom, how can people find you? So they can find me at my website, positivediscipline.co.uk and also my other websites, igrowco.com yes. And we didn't get to talk about the belief systems and the affirmations. You're coming back, I'm telling you. So we'll talk about those next time. But they can also find me on Instagram, busyworkingmom and Positive Discipline uk. Brilliant. Thank you. And your book. My book is on Amazon and the affirmation cards are also on Amazon. So my book, Positive Discipline for today's busy and overwhelmed parents. And the igrow Co Affirmation cards for kids. The affirmation cards are absolutely beautiful, by the way, because when we met. I have a deck for you and a book for you. Yes. Oh, my goodness. I feel so happy and joyful. Thank you so much. Because we met by chance having coffee one day, didn't we? By complete, complete chance that we met and I picked a card and it was the exact card that my daughter needed that day. So I think they're very well. Oh, God, I can't remember. I think it was I am me or I am positive. I think I can't remember. It was. It was something I'd like to say I am confident or something. That's rubbish, isn't it? It's still in my purse, by the way I carry it around with me. I swear to God, now you'll have a whole deck to use with the girls. I'm so excited. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. We will be back next week with a new episode of Femaling. I hope you got as much joy from Joy as I did. See you soon. Welcome to the women's radio station. Supporting women's well being. 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