Healing Image Hi – Joyce Marter, Mental Health Strategies To Improve Your Financial Wealth

Hello, this is Eva May, and I'm speaking to you from the Women's Radio Station for another In My Healing Image series. I'm actually thrilled today to be in a position to talk to a guest that I've had previously, and through my, my own mistake, I actually made a shorter recording than the time that I required for the broadcast. So instead of 60 minutes, I only did 37. And, uh, it's actually fantastic because I can welcome back Joyce Marta today, and we're going to have a full hour. Um, so it was the first time that I'd actually really sort of spoken to you and seen you on Zoom, and I thought, what a lovely person. And it gave me, um, you know, this need, this want to go and sort of find out a bit more about you. Um, and you do, you've done so many things in your life and I find you really inspirational. You're also, um, you know, you're, you're a mom. Um, and you've, you know, now you, we've just been speaking. So you've gone from being, um, a counselor to, um, you know, building up your own business very successfully. You sold that on. And now you've been working on sort of financial mental health for financial wealth, which is something that I was particularly interested in. And you speak a lot now to companies. I think we've just mentioned how amazing the numbers are you speak to. The largest that you had was a contingent of 3,000 people. I mean, that must have, that's incredible, Joyce. That's fantastic. And you've written your book, which we spoke about. You have an online course now, which people can sign up to. And I'm going to be certainly doing that next week. And then another article I found where you've used research about the current changes and that people have gone through, through working from home during the pandemic. And you've set out 13 really, you know, good thoughtful points that are very easy to understand and clear. And they make absolutely good sense. So I don't have another job other than this one at the moment. But friends of mine who are working from home, they were saying things like this really lovely friend of mine, and she's got a really, really amazing job. Working from home for her was extremely difficult because she wasn't able to delegate to the people in the way that she would normally in the workplace. And then the other thing she said was that one day she really got very little work done because her husband had bought a lemon cake for his mother, went to visit the mother, left the lemon cake in the kitchen, and she literally sat there all day thinking about lemon cake. And had to sort of go back and start it. She could not get on with work until she'd had a piece of this cake, so, um, which is not something that she'd do in the office. Um, so yeah, good. Over to you, Joyce, and welcome, and it's lovely to see you and have you here with us. Thank you so much, Eva-May. You're so kind, and I'm happy to be with you again, and thank you for your warm remarks. And yes, this article I wrote for Psychology Today, I'm really enjoying blogging for them. And when I write articles, I tend to write about what I'm seeing in my work with my client companies. And I know as a therapist that transitions are stressful for any of us. And a lot of times people come into therapy when they've lost a job or they had a breakup or they're in some sort of change of life, like having a baby or something like that. We've been in a constant state of change and transition during the pandemic now for more than 2 years. And working from home or working a hybrid model has completely changed the way that we live. And it has caused changes in our lifestyle in virtually every way. And the research is showing that when we work remotely, we actually work more hours. Not fewer. And according to the World Health Organization, 785,000 people globally are dying per year from overwork and burnout. So that's extremely concerning. It puts us at higher risk for heart disease and stroke. And when we don't have work-life balance, we— our mental health suffers. We might deal with depression or anxiety or increased stress. And according to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, during the pandemic, 65% of us are reporting anxiety symptoms. 45% of us are reporting depression symptoms, and many of us are having PTSD. So trauma symptoms, which I think a lot of people don't understand, that trauma isn't something that only war veterans or victims of horrible assault experience, but really each of us as, as human beings have been through some levels of trauma or others. Some individuals have very big traumas that they've survived, and others may have been through accidents or injuries or breakups or health issues that were traumatic. And so the, the pandemic brings this all up. We've also had way more togetherness with our loved ones if we've been living and working from home. I am a mom of 4. I have 4— well, I have 2 daughters, 2 daughters of my own who are 20 and 17. Yeah, I have 2 bonus children from my husband, so 2 stepchildren who are 23 and 26. And during the pandemic, we had 3 of them living at home, and 2 of them were in college and studying online, and one was in high school studying online. My husband and I were working remotely, and it was a lot. It was a lot of togetherness, and the research is showing there's an increase in relationship conflict, divorce, even domestic violence and child abuse. So it, it's stressful for people having that much togetherness. And then for, for those of us who live alone, it's very isolating and difficult. And so the way mental health works, the, the higher our stressors are, the more self-care and the more support we need. And we've had higher stress and really less time for self-care and less access to community and other support. So it's taken a real toll on mental health. And now what I'm seeing as I'm giving mental health awareness trainings and, and talks for corporations really around the globe, I'm seeing that many companies have either returned to the workplace or more common, what I'm seeing is some sort of hybrid model where maybe people are going into the office a few days a week but may work from home a couple days a week. And so there's a lot more onus on individuals to structure their time. So the article that I wrote for Psychology Today, which is called 13 Tips for Transitioning Back to the Office, has some practical tips for what we can take control of to make ourselves feel better as we move back into the workplace. No, because I, you know, I'm— well, I'm a mom of 3. What, one's married and lives, lives, um, in Northern Ireland and I'm, I'm in the mainland UK. So it was hard in, in a way, like, for us as a family not to be able to see, you know, my son and his wife for 2 years. Because when they moved there, it's like, it's only an hour on the plane, but when that's taken away from you, I actually found that really, you know, quite difficult missing out on, you know, that you can talk and stuff, but it's not quite the same. Plus they're both doctors, so they were extremely busy. And then I have my other, my two girls, and one of them has actually moved a first job. And then this happened to, well, she was in Canada actually on a university year, had to come back early. And then sort of apply for jobs without the support that she would have had normally had she been going in and seeing the sort of advice service. So she managed to get herself on a grad scheme and then had to move to Dublin, but actually stay at home here. So she'd never met anybody that she worked with. And they'd never met her. And it was quite a lot for her. I know she said to me that on sort of meetings for teams and stuff like that, she didn't know whether to say anything or not say anything or— and it has taken her a good year to sort of find her feet there, whereas I think she would have probably found it earlier. She also had me sort of enjoying having them at home and stuff, and both of them did. And, you know, I'd announce rather loudly that I was back in the house when that was the last thing they wanted. I forgot that I was meant to be quiet. But you also point that out, that it's become more acceptable for people to be remotely working, having a meeting, and children just sort of coming and going in and out. I mean, It's not something you could possibly have in most work situations. Correct. Yeah. Cats walking across the keyboards and things like that. Dogs barking and— right. I mean, you bring up some great points about your daughter, and I actually was just in New York City speaking for a client company where they gathered all new employees from 2020 and 2021 and 2022. And had them all get together in person and had me give a training on addressing things like social anxiety in the workplace and how to, how to come back into the office and, and reinvigorate your energy and passion and drive and how to foster collaboration and teamwork and how to communicate effectively. Because when we're working digitally and over Zoom and remote platforms, it takes some of the human connection and some of the ability to work on projects as a team, it makes that a little bit more difficult. So what would your advice be then for people? I must say also, both my, my kids were working longer than they would because they didn't have the travel. And so it's now they've got the travel back. They can't possibly— well, they could. Do all of that work. But like you say, you know, there's a burnout. I think you need to be aware of the fact that it has changed. And I'm— I do need my travel time and I can't cram in all this, all this work. It's not possible. You know, they both have, you know, pretty sort of demanding jobs. And it's certainly changed. And one of them is she's in the field of marketing and marketing. The job has changed. Um, you know, during the pandemic. So people's jobs have had— they've had to adapt that, and now it's like having to go back to it. So I think, um, you know, for you to go in and advise companies and then to write, you know, this is on Psychology Today that you listeners can look at that. It, it's, um, it's really— you read it and it all Absolutely makes sense. But I think it's important for people to read that because you've used key pieces of research, um, and, and made them into, to something that is, yeah, it's absolutely makes sense and it's made me stop and think. Thank you so much. I, I'm so glad. I hope it's helpful to people. And some of my suggestions are really to take some time for planning your routine and your schedule. Yeah. And the research shows that having a morning routine, a healthy morning routine of self-care, is the most effective. So instead of waking up and grabbing your cell phone and looking at your social media or your texts or emails, that's actually neurologically very overwhelming for your mind and body. Instead, carving out time to have your coffee, connect with nature, Maybe do some journaling or morning meditation or prayer, or do a short yoga practice or some stretching and set your intention for the day. I think it's really important to allow time for the commute. And if you're taking a train or a bus or something, you know, think about, could you listen to a nice podcast or bring a book or some good music or something for some self-care? And having little micro self-care breaks throughout the day, you know, making sure that you're getting up and you're walking, you're getting outside, that you're planning healthy meals, and that you're setting healthy boundaries with work, that you're not overworking, and that you're carving out time for your workouts, for your sleep, to connect with your friends, and for those mindfulness breaks, you know, really focusing on your breathing, your connection to your body, your senses, and so that we're not in our heads all the time because that causes us so much stress and anxiety. And we want to get a handle on our thinking. Cognitive behavioral therapy says that our thoughts precede our emotions and behaviors. Excuse me. So our cognitive behavioral therapy says that our thoughts precede our emotions and behaviors. So if we're thinking catastrophic, negative, or fear-based thoughts, we're going to fuel stress and anxiety. So we want to thought stop. Literally every time you have those thoughts to say stop and reroute your thinking to a gratitude practice and focusing on the good parts. I think some people aren't feeling positively about going back into the office, so they might have some health anxiety or social anxiety or Many people are dealing with dependent care issues. You know, maybe working from home, they were able to take care of their children or pets or aging parents more easily. Yeah, yeah, I, I, you know, we were popping around to see, you know, parents because we're, we're in a bubble. So it was a necessary thing, um, that, that we, we were allowed and we had to do, you know. Also, I had to take the dog out. Um, and I mean, your, your suggestion is in the morning Don't grab your cell phone as the first thing that you do. Um, I mean, I think your phones can be a great support, but then they also can be, well, with everything that's on there, you know, the news and especially with news of the pandemic and everything, it was actually, you know, very, well, it was, it was a very worrying and unsettling time. So to start your day with that. Um, when there's actually nothing you can actually do about it, um, I think it's great advice. Thank you. Yes, I, I think that it really is kind of like recognizing what we can control and what we can't control. Yeah. And letting go of all that we can't control and surrendering that, releasing that through psychospiritual practices, and then really empowering ourselves to control what we can. Which is our own schedule, our own self-care, our access to support. I do recommend only checking the news twice a day because it can be traumatizing with everything going on in the world, the violence, the war in Ukraine. Absolutely. And so to have it on 24/7 is just way too triggering. So I suggest checking in the morning, you know, maybe before you go to work. So that you're aware of what's going on in the world, and in the evening after work, but not too close to bedtime. And you're right, the phone can— is a wonderful tool. There's so many apps and resources available to us, but we have to self-regulate and make sure that we're not on our devices losing mindless time playing games or searching the internet or social media in place of some more fulfilling self-care or connecting with loved ones? No, I, I think, um, some— one thing I found quite positive from the pandemic was using, um, you know, well, Zoom or, or sort of, um, ways to, to actually sit and speak to people. Because in the early days, I don't think— I think I had this feeling of, uh, like gathering everything in. Like, it's like, yeah, I've got everything we need and we can shut the door and like shut the world out. And, and I, I lost contact with people that I would normally see in my life. And as someone who's, you know, sort of at home, I do help my husband with his business, but I felt kind of isolated and in some ways I quite liked it. Like not having to always look at the clock, but, you know, to be somewhere on a certain time. But that social interaction, we are social beings, is really important. And not just for me, but I found out how important my friendship is to others who, you know, I see probably nearly every day. I'm very, very fortunate. I have a dog, my first ever dog, and because I stopped working, I wouldn't have a dog for work. And I just used to walk her into town. I can't remember if I told you this because I'd spent 4 years like in the house as agoraphobic. So when I got the dog, like, we, you know, we had to go out. And so I'd walk into the town and get takeaway coffee turn around and then walk home. Well, if you have a dog, I never realized this, but people come and like talk to your dog. Um, they talk to you a little bit, but more to the dog. Yes. And, uh, as I was getting my coffee and people were talking to her, and I say, you know, good morning, and like turn around, go home. And after about 2 weeks, they asked me to sit down with them. I was like, yes, you know, like, really? Like 'Is— really?' You know, like, these people. And turns out they had all met there by doing the same thing— walking the dog, getting a coffee, and then eventually deciding to sit down together. Now it's nearly— it's not— it's nearly 7 years, and I see one or maybe all of those people and their dogs, um, every day, every single morning. That's so lovely. It honestly is the— it's just been one of the best friendship groups that I, I could not possibly imagine. And we call it morning briefing, uh, and it, it's really important. Unfortunately, one of them, um, her, um, her husband, um, he passed away during the night. Just— yeah. And as total, total shock. And But you know what, you know, we were the first people she called, and we were the— every morning she's kept coming, she's kept coming. She's wanted to go to a different coffee shop because she didn't want everybody else who knew her to ask, you know, you know, this, this, what, what was it, blah blah, you know, you know, like she, she'd done— she didn't want all of those questions. She just wanted sit with us and have a coffee and just, just be. But it was a very— it's a— I think for all of us it's an extremely important part in— of my, my group, of our day. In fact, in, uh, in May I went away on holiday with two of them. Um, I never dreamt that I'd be able to do something like that, but I, I think, you know, keeping Contact with friends and making new friendships is something that is so important to make some time for. Yeah, because you never know when you're going to need it. And yeah, we certainly benefit. I've benefited hugely from meeting these people. It's changed my life, really, to have So beautiful. Yeah, they're honestly amazing. I saw them this morning and it's my birthday on Tuesday, so I won't see them. Um, so we're going away tomorrow for a couple of days and there's, you know, they made it really nice for me. Just, yeah, it was just lovely. Just really nice. So nice to have a sense of community. Absolutely. I think each of us needs a person, or like you have a group of people that we check in with on a daily basis. Having that one person that knows where you are, what you're doing, how you are, is so important. So especially for people who aren't partnered, to have, you know, daily check-ins with a friend or community members like you have is a, a big part of having emotional support. And as I— we may have talked about this last time we spoke, but as I've been giving presentations, 95% of my attendees have said that they need more emotional support. Isn't that remarkable? 95%. And so we all need to get better about asking for it and providing it, you know, really being specific about what we need from other people. Maybe it's we need them to just listen or just be with us, or maybe we need some, some logistical help with something, or we just need a hug. Or whatever it might be, but specifically asking for that. And also being available to others emotionally, asking how they are, being present, being kind and compassionate and open, asking open-ended questions, asking, how can I support you? You know, like your friend who's lost her husband, that's unimaginable. It's extraordinarily difficult time. So I'm sure just being with her and, and having that routine is, is healing and helpful. Yeah. And, and things, um, things that came up, uh, she, she, they didn't have any— that they don't have children, um, either. So, um, yeah, you know, she's on, she's on her own, and, um, I don't Well, you know, we tell her she's amazing, and, uh, and, and, um, we're, you know, we're there for her. And, and we actually— I think what's really important is that we do, we do, we do all have a really good laugh, you know, the ability to sit and just laugh so hard that, you know, you nearly spat your coffee out. It, you know, it's just It's just pure gold. Um, and three, three of them do live on their own actually, so it is, uh, really, really important. Um, you know, I have my husband here, and to be honest, I quite like going out, um, and seeing them, you know, without him. It's quite nice to, to be on my own in their company. So yeah, definitely there's such a friendship there, and you just don't know what life's going to throw at you, but When you talk about your money, my poor friend who is now a widow, she's had so much trouble accessing finances, stuff that's now done online, passwords and all those sorts of things that she didn't know. It's not like, you know, when going back, you know, you have bank statements and You know, now it's all this security. So I think communicating, she, you know, she'll get quite cross with her husband, you know, like, why on earth didn't you write down all these things for me? Because I'm having to find, you know, where this money is and what I've got to do with this and that and the other. And it's been a huge amount. And this is during a pandemic. So yeah, the hours and hours she's, this poor woman has just spent on the phone trying to, well, on hold really, because, you know, everything's changed, the way of working and people working from home couldn't help and all that sort of thing. So for her to be able to— we can't help, we can't take over that bit, but to offload it. Yeah, it's been absolutely, you know, so, so important. You know, even trying, you know, to get her to see a family doctor in a pandemic. It was nigh on impossible. So I really think that there's so much in community. You know, there's— yeah, definitely. I don't know what I'd do without these guys. So yeah, I'm really thankful. Yeah. And they listen to me about, you know, what I say on the radio and things as well. They're very supportive in that way. And yeah, so it's really good. I mean, once— once— quite funny. He, um, he has a little girl and, uh, we, we took her recently swimming. And I have this really strong mummy gene, like I just have, I just do. And he's, he's at her. He's a, he's a lot younger than me. When we go out together, people think he's my son. And, and I'm not quite that old, but okay. So his darling little girl in a towel, you know, like when they come out the pool and they're, when they're like 8, and put it on lap. And I, I got to like, I wanted to like get her really warm like my, I did with my kids, like rub them dry with a towel. But I didn't realize that what I thought were her two little legs was actually one of his legs. Oh goodness, that's me! And I'm like, I'm warm yet. He's like, it's my leg. Oh, that's so funny. I know, but do you know what I mean? Just little things like that. I just like, you know, just simple fun that you actually need. I find that I need that. And, um, yeah, he got made redundant during lockdown. I mean, like, honestly, I don't know where any of us would be without each other. So I really feel for people who don't have this, um, I think this is unique what we've got, but you know, it should be something that is possible for, for people to meet and, and support each other, you know, emotionally. Not everyone can afford to go to counseling. Not everybody's company is going to call someone in like you. And we can sort of try and get through things and we're going to have to because things have changed so much. Yeah, so you were open even after having, you know, lived in your home for 4 years dealing with agoraphobia. Yeah, it sounds like your dog helped you get out and about, and you were open to chatting with people, and you were open to sitting down and having a conversation with these folks. And, and that takes some courage. It's hard, I think, sometimes to make friends as adults, and, and any— I think any of us can experience some social anxiety or awkwardness. And but to be open to it, to, to attend events in our community, whether it's, you know, for me, I found community in my local yoga studio. Oh, yeah. People who also believed in mindfulness, a lot of therapists go there and other wellness professionals. And so I found a group of like-minded people, or, you know, in a neighborhood, you know, finding people who have common interests, or for some people it might be at their church or synagogue, or if you're in a running group or something like that. But having some sense of community, and like you said, laughing is such a release of stress and a connection with others. It's— and it fills your heart with joy. And that's so important to have fun and to play. Absolutely. Your point about your friend losing her husband and the confusion about the digital finances and not having the passwords and how stressful that must be at an already horribly difficult time. That really speaks to the importance of couples having honest and open communication about finance and having a system. And that's what made me interested in finance as a therapist. I started to see You know, financial problems is one of the main reasons that couples come to therapy, and it's one of the main reasons couples get divorced. And so arguing about money or not communicating about it is very challenging. And if one person is in control of the finances and knows what's going on and the other person doesn't, sometimes that can lead to some disempowerment in the relationship. Or imbalance of control in the relationship. So it's so important to have those conversations. And then for each of us, I've seen that there's a big connection between our mental health and our financial health. And actually, when we improve our mental health, it improves our finances. So it's something that, you know, the skills that I share in my Psychology Today article and in my book and course, and through my speaking engagements are really wellness practices that we can all put into place in terms of how we think, how we take care of ourselves, how we access support, so that we can move through or, or manage to the best of our ability, the mental health challenges that I think we all experience at different points in our lives. I mean, your friend is experiencing grief and loss, even you when you couldn't visit your child that was in Ireland during the pandemic. We, we all experienced some grief and loss to different degrees during the pandemic. So to honor those feelings and have some tools to take care of ourselves, you know, I think is so, so important. And, and definitely accessing community is one of those, and striking a balance with having some mindfulness practices so that you can go within. You said, you know, in some ways you liked the solitude and the quiet of not being, you know, a slave to the clock. Because to be honest, I suppose, along for a long time it was my preferred thing. So it was almost like the familiar bad, you know, like I'm at home, I'm at my, you know, house, I feel safe, I'm not going to catch the virus. I'm, you know, it, it became a place of safety, but it's— it also could become a place of isolation and have a negative impact and take steps back. So yeah, going, going, having this to— we, you know, obviously we continue now, we're allowed to meet up and we have done for a while. But yeah, it's, um, yeah, incredible. And, um, it's given me, you know, they say that I look a completely different person from the person that, you know, I was 6 years ago. Definitely, like, way more. I mean, I wouldn't be doing this, that's for sure. And yeah, and then, um, things that you, you've said about, about money. I mean, I'm, um, I found, uh, I mean, my kids were ordering parcels like, you know, there was no tomorrow. And, uh, and I got— they actually sort of got me into internet shopping a bit, which, which is not good. So, um, I don't need to buy anything. I have a bit of an addictive personality. And when I read the article that you wrote about these buy now pay later things, because I did use them and I've now stopped, Joyce. I've stopped using them. Good for you, Eva Mae. Yeah, because You made me realize that it all, you've still got to pay for it and you can only spend it once. So, um, yeah, I don't need those things. So it's nice to look and that's, that's as far as it goes for me now. So, and also today I spent a very long time on a hold listening to some rather, um, sort of music that I'd rather not have had played through my ears for about 40 minutes. But I managed to save over £100 on my car insurance. And like, that's a really big thing for me to get the policy number and to work it out and to say to them, you know, well, I've compared and whatever, whatever. So, you know, managing my finances, even in that small way, is something that, you know, I could put now into place for other areas of of my life. I've moved my gym to a one that you only pay for what you use. That's good. And, and I walk a lot more, so I'm not, you know, spending lots of money on fuel. I don't know what it's like in the States, but all our bills are going up. Yes, same here. Hugely. Gasoline is a worry. Yeah, I mean, my husband's gone from, um, switching, leaving all the lights on, so now we're practically living in the dark, you know. He's, um, he's aware now of— I think it became a habit of putting lights on, um, and it really is going to be going up a lot. So, you know, there's, there's another wave of, of problems coming, um, Even with our food as well, everything is starting to, to go up, and, um, you know, we have to eat. And yeah, I've even changed where I shop now so that, you know, the food is, um, yeah, it's, it's a, you know, less— it's not such a fancy supermarket, but I'm buying food and it's certainly very good and it's a lot cheaper. So Yeah, I'm definite, and, and that's taken me out of my comfort zone because I've been used to going to the same place for about 30 years. So, um, so yeah, and I come home and I feel really pleased that I've saved some money. And then my daughter is moving out next weekend and I've been helping her choose, choose stuff, um, and then we put it in the basket And then we say, right, what do you actually really need? What was the amount you really wanted to spend? Because, you know, you can't have it all now. It's got to be paid for. And you're going to be, you know, buying, paying for rent and bills and, you know, these sort of costs that are going to be coming up for her travel and all those sorts sort of things and to be independent, I need to be able to advise my children on, you know, go without that, you can go without that. And I think previously when I was really, really struggling with my mental health, I have complex PTSD and DID, and the awful thing about DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder, is it's not recognized in the UK. Oh my goodness. I know there's 40 years of studies on it, but it is not recognized. I actually had to go to a facility in Arizona to get my diagnosis, and it's taken me 33 years to get to a specialist for it here. But they've been trained in— they're either trained in Europe or in America, and then our National Health Service outsources because— but I don't think I should have had to have waited that long. Um, and that's my, uh, yeah, I mean, you, you know, you deal with DID, you're trained to the— it's like, why don't we have it here? Okay, to do with funding. So, um, yeah, that's another of my things I want to use the radio for because the help that I'm now getting, I, I've paid, you know, like to go to those facilities is we're basically therapy poor, to be honest. And because it's a huge amount and it's not like an operation where once it's, you know, it's done and you sort of can recover and maybe have some physio. You know, I've been in therapy since I was 19 and I'm now 57 next week. And, you know, it makes me really angry because there's going to be so many people in my situation where we just don't, because we live in the UK, have this service, um, and are paying money for, for therapy. I don't know what it's like in the States, but here workplaces now have taken on like providing— it is something that is now provided. But you'll get 6 sessions. And I'm not sure whether you necessarily know during 6 sessions whether you're with the right person, because I certainly never ever rocked up to any doctor and said, I have dissociative identity disorder, because I wouldn't know that, would I? Right. Um, yeah, so I do worry that there are people there spending money on, you know, private therapists. Our insurance, if you have it for mental health, it doesn't last very long at all. There's a cap, financial cap, and then there's a 3-year before you can go back into that. Um, yeah, I just, so I think anybody who is seeking counseling, absolutely make sure you are spending your time and your money on what feels right. And if it doesn't feel right, you've got to go with your gut. And, and move, because it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's a— mental health is just this massive, massive umbrella. In fact, it's a massive marquee, really. And so, yeah, we're, we're basically therapy poor, to be honest. I'm so sorry. That's, that's not right. You know, no, the system has failed you, and I believe we all have mental health issues as part of the human condition. You know, to some extent or other, we're genetically predispositioned to respond to stress with either anxiety or depression or addiction. And I think all of us experience, whether it's grief and loss, or, you know, some form of anxiety, depression, substance use issues, you know, at different points in our lives, and help is available and effective. And I'm very passionate about making therapy affordable and accessible. I think it should be like going to the dentist or the doctor. Yeah. Here in the States, Obama passed a law in 2010, I believe, that was, um, for mental health parity. And so we were able to have, um, the same coverage for mental healthcare as we do for major medical. Which is really good. Um, so here insurance does cover therapy pretty well, but of course we have so many Americans who don't have any insurance at all. And there are companies like you were describing that have employee assistance programs, which are short-term therapy for kind of assessment, brief treatment, and referral. And those are— that's really helpful for triage if there's a crisis or if there's a short-term issue, like a problem on the job or a relationship issue that's somewhat minor, but for deeper, longer-term therapy for a serious mental health issue like chronic PTSD or DID, it is, it's so important to have a therapist that you can meet with regularly and that, that be affordable. And, you know, we want to help people get assessed and diagnosed properly and treated properly. Early on so that they don't need higher levels of care, which are really expensive. And it sounds like you've, you've been through that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, we have, honestly, for years, you know. And, and, and now I am at the, um, the Clinic for Dissociative Studies in London. I'm only one of 50 people in the UK because they have members all over the UK, so it's not just London. But, you know, the fight to fight to get the funding for that was because my treatment is predicted to last 6 years. I don't think there's recognition here. And I want to change this if I— anything I can to try and change this. You know, to be somebody who has a diagnosis where treatment is going to be 6 years and that's 2 hours face-to-face every week. I have to go to London for that. And, and then an extra hour over the week to use how I want, whether, you know, we agree, we can phone, we can Zoom, we can message, I can email, I can do it, you know, however. And that's what should be happening for other people. My therapist and I, we meet the criteria. There's a doctor in the States called, you know, Bethany Bland. I am not familiar. No, she, she runs this thing called TOPDD where it's a study for therapists and their clients. If you meet the criteria that you've been working together for more than 3 months and that you're going to sort of regularly, then we participate in a study. We start it in October. Now, hardly anybody else in the UK can apply for this because they're not going to meet the criteria because we don't have any trained specialists. Um, so it— yeah, I, I feel that people— there's an awful lot, I don't know if you have this, of, um, therapy centers that are set up with, you know, subsidized— their charitable status, so people can go and, you know, people are obviously working for less money and they're giving their time, but if there's no rigorous medical assessment to uncover what could be at the root of it and whether this really is the best place to be. I think it's a little bit too fragmented in that way here. But yeah, it should be available on our national health. I mean, we pay, although we don't pay, we do because we pay, they take it out of our tax, National Insurance. And I think we're a million people short at the moment. It's not good. Two of my kids are doctors and, yeah, they are definitely noticing the shortage of staff, which is dangerous, to be honest. So I really want people to be able to get— take control of their life The help that I got in the States was, uh, something that I really— I can't explain to anybody because nobody from my family went. I have to try and explain why it costs all that money. And, um, you know, I had so much— ah, so much. Yeah, so, so different to here. That, um, like equine therapy. I mean, yes, you know, well the most incredible thing. And I really want to, to promote that, particularly in people who you can't find, find the words, and, um, for children as well. And I think, as it's, you know, it's money well spent rather than putting them, you know, in a room with some toys and hoping that they can, um, sort of engage in that way. Because these animals, they, they don't, they don't know anything about you, but my goodness, do they connect. Isn't that powerful? Yeah. Have you done that? I have watched it and learned about it. I haven't done it personally, but I love horses and my husband grew up with horses and they are special creatures. And my understanding is that they— it's almost like biofeedback, like they, they can sense how we feel. And so through the relationship, we can learn about ourselves and we can learn to self-regulate. And, um, that's very, very powerful. So it sounds like you're bringing up a lot of important issues about sort of systemic problems with mental health care and making sure that it's available. I know here in the States, my husband and I are members of the American Counseling Association, and every year prior to the pandemic, we were going to DC and lobbying for mental health bills. Bills, you know, for more services in schools and services for veterans and for the elderly and, and supporting bills that make, you know, community mental health more accessible and available and encouraging more awareness because our mental health is part of our health. And so in the States here, I know that how unexpected healthcare costs are one of the top reasons for bankruptcy. And so your treatment costs were unexpected healthcare costs. It was for, for me to go to Arizona was meant to be 45 days, ended up being 70 days without train, plane fares and, you know, that sort of thing. It was over $70,000. Yes. And, you know, this amount of money. Yeah, it— I mean, it's a worrying time anyway, and to have to go all that way, um, to get the help is, is not right. It's just absolutely not, not right. And I want to— I want to change this. Um, I did get elected as a public governor on a board of our local hospital Trust for Mental Health and Social Care, and I resigned because it wasn't something that I wanted to be associated with. It, it really wasn't. I think there's better ways that I can maybe, um, have some positive influence in this. Um, I mean, my, um, my local MP, I think he probably hates me because the amount of things that I send him now. Yeah, we're going to meet though. He has agreed to meet me and He's, um, he's actually really quite, quite receptive, but it's like, you know, I'm quite, I am fairly intelligent. Um, very much so. I was a teacher for over 20 years, and prior to that I was a buyer for, for a large department store chain in the UK, and then I had my children. So, you know, I've, I've been hit with this, this, you know, I, I was abused, so that, that kind of is a The thing that's really happened for me. And if I'm going through this and I'm fighting for every single thing that I get, there are an awful lot of people who are not in that position, who don't feel comfortable or, you know, they don't like to challenge authority. All of that I don't care about anymore, actually. I, I believe in something. Um, then absolutely. And I'm now— my therapist and I are going to start this study, which is run by, you know, in America. And, you know, we get, um, assignments and homework, and we get videos and things to watch. And we need to— the world needs to embrace this because we've had the pandemic, we now have a war. There's an awful lot of unhealed trauma around. And it's not an easy thing to live with, and it impacts on you like physically and, and mentally. And I know we're talking about money, um, but well, I'm lucky I do have private health insurance. My husband's self-employed, he can't possibly go on a waitlist, which now if you need a hip or something is about 3 years. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's really bad. My son is a GP, like a What do you call it? Family doctor? His work has shifted massively now to having all these people who've had their operations postponed who now need pain management because they're going to be in pain for 3 or 4 years. Yeah, that's not a good thing. And it's also affecting them all, you know, mentally. Um, yeah, that's very depressing to be in pain. It can lead to suicidal thoughts and feelings. Absolutely. I I have a— it's a year this month that I had a bilateral jaw joint replacement. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I know. So my speech is a little bit— it's okay. It's just mechanical. It's slightly different. Now, if I'd been on our NHS thing, I would still be waiting for this. And probably because of the pandemic and everything postponed and everything, COVID. Um, but because I have medical insurance, then it was covered. And, and, and it, you know, so that's a physical issue that has actually come from what happened to me. Um, physically I was, um, you know, beaten about a lot. So my jaw's gone. Well, my surgeon is the only one in 10, 10 in the UK that can do this. But the pieces are made in the States. They're bespoke. Now, my jaw, this, well, cost £20,000. Wow. And then another on top of the surgical fees. Now, there are some poor people in the same situation that I was a year ago who've now got to wait, and some of them are trying to pay and desperately find the money And, and it's it. And then they get such a shock about how much these things do cost. I think it's also been a little bit of a wake-up call that when you do get to see a doctor and you think, oh, it's free, it's whatever, whatever, it's not actually free. It's costing a lot of money, the NHS, you know, to see, to run the service and to see these consultants and the operating theaters and everything, you know, you're having a lot of money spent on you. It's thousands. So, and to keep people out of hospital has got to be the way. So if you can mentally make them, um, able to deal with issues and pain, then it's, it's, it's got to be better. Yes. And Eva May, I, I— what you've been through is unimaginable, and my heart goes out to you. And thank you. Well, I'm Still here fighting for it. Well, and I— you radiate love and joy and goodness and compassion, and you— I just really admire your courage and strength to talk about your own mental health issues because that's so normalizing for each of us to hear, because I think so many people suffer in silence. Yeah, and stigma. Yes. And so when we talk about our own mental health issues, and I have suffered from a lot of anxiety and still have, you know, have to manage it. And I think when we talk about it, it's normalizing for other people. And, you know, you're, you're talking about the care and you are a tremendously smart woman. And so that's so helpful for people to, to know that they're not alone. That treatment is available and that you're being empowered. You're advocating legislatively for mental health treatment and care where you live and more awareness. And each of us should be mental health advocates in our families and in our communities and politically. So I think you're doing an amazing job in shining the light for others. And as you've taken care of your mental health, that you look different, um, you're socializing differently, and you're even more empowered with your financial life. You're mindful about your spending. That's down to you, because I, I must admit, I've been a bit of an ostrich before, just kept my head in the sand and, uh, just hoped that it, you know, would sort itself out. But you're absolutely right, you know, I can't it's quite easy in a way to leave it to my husband. But no, no, I can— I've got a part in this too. We are, you know, we are a partnership. And, uh, yeah, that, that's— I, I do feel hugely better because when I grew up, and we were discussing this earlier, and you've also written about this, that people— money wasn't talked about, right? You know, you don't talk about money in your family. Um, it's rude. It was rude, I think. To be honest, to, you know, everybody's— it's all sort of a secret, but, and that's fine up to a point. But, you know, now with technology, I mean, internet banking and I, we're not quite getting on right now, but we will get there. Um, you know, I've got to embrace the change and really think about— I mean, today when I saved some money on my car insurance, she was telling me the number for the year, but because I can start it now, it's like from now to December. And she was giving me the figure and I thought, you know what, that's, that's not right. You've not calculated that right. And, and, um, I don't think I would have even been mentally taking in the information, give me a year ago. And I'm, I was like, well, no, no, I don't, that really to me does not add up. 'cause you are saying that much for the, till the end of the year, but then that's way more money than 5 months policy. And I was right. Yay. I love that. Yeah, I was right. She hadn't put in the whatever discount and the whatever, you know, and just to challenge people or if you don't understand, because if Areas like insurance and finance and bank interest and whatever, you know, they are people's jobs. Ask, ask, ask for help, ask for support and improve your financial literacy. You know, learn about these things and listen to podcasts and money, read money books, work my program. You need to work your program and read the Financial Mindset Fix. Or you can even just listen to it on audiobook. And I've only just really discovered audiobooks, and I love them because I actually, I love listening to your voice as well. And now when I, because I've spoken to you, I feel like I know you too. When I read things that you've written, so in Psychology Today, because I'm, I like that, um, I like that a lot. I actually hear your voice. That's so nice. Yeah, it's— and considering you speak to thousands and thousands and thousands of people, you've made it really personal. Um, does that make sense? It's— yes, and I so appreciate that, Yvonne. It means a lot to me. I really feel like it's my soul's purpose. I think you're absolutely Absolutely right. And, um, you've really— yeah, you've made me connect with things that I didn't think I would in such a positive way. And, uh, yeah, I mean, my family are pleased as well because they're like— because I have a little sign outside that's red that says 'on air' when I'm in here. Yes, I put it on even when I'm just in here and just want some time out. They think I'm talking, but I'm not. And yeah, everyone needs to go home. Yeah, no, no, you can't come in. And, uh, I'm like, I'm talking to Joyce again today. They were like, oh yeah, you know, and they were really asking about you. And yeah, my, my daughter found it really interesting, um, as well, you know. I think I'm so glad. Talking about money is a very, very important thing, as well as talking about mental health, physical health, and, um, I'm just so glad that it is now Joyce in the workplace. Yes, absolutely. That to me is— when I went through the police investigation into my abuse, they told my place of work and I was literally shunned. Oh no, that's horrible. I had to leave. I had to leave. And, um, it You know, it's turned around massively now, and I'm hugely thankful for that. But what it did to me, it hurts very, very deep, you know, to lose, to lose your job. So I lost my salary and I also lost my reason for getting up in the morning. And so what you say about establishing a healthy routine, is really, really important, which is why I started Healing Image, because I wanted some help with makeup and things, and that's what I couldn't get. And now that is part of my, my routine. I mean, I've been to the gym today, so I've not— I've been dashing about a bit. But yeah, it's, it's definitely really possible to put positivity and take some responsibility yourself. But look for help too. You've done beautifully and you look beautiful. And you come over here, you have to come and see us. I would love that. I would love that. Yeah, you're so kind and warm and it's, it's been lovely talking with you. Yeah, well, we've had— I'm afraid we've got to say goodbye now. For now. Yes, I hope we talk again. I do. But thank you so, so much. So this is Joyce and I'm going to put all the details about your book, um, available for, for listeners on the station's website. And, uh, yeah, we'll be in contact later. So have a really great day. You too, Eva May. Great talking with you. I wish you all the best. Thanks very much, Joyce. Okay, thank you. Bye-bye.