In this episode of Healing Image Hi, Eva May explores the intersection of mental health and financial wellness with Joyce Marter, a licensed psychotherapist and author of ‘The Financial Mindset Fix.’ The conversation centers on ‘mental wealth’—the combination of mental well-being, work-life balance, supportive relationships, and financial peace. Joyce and Eva May discuss how Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) schemes like Klarna can be deceptively appealing, particularly for those managing mental health challenges like anxiety, depression, and trauma, creating a vicious cycle where accumulating debt further damages mental health.
The hosts dive deep into practical financial awareness, including Eva May’s personal journey of deliberately avoiding credit cards to protect her mental health and maintain a simpler financial life. They explore how pandemic-related trauma has reshaped our spending behaviors and made financial literacy increasingly urgent. A significant portion of the discussion focuses on children’s relationship with money, contrasting the tactile learning of handling physical cash with the abstract, often impulsive nature of digital payments and bank cards for young people. Both Eva May and Joyce emphasize that teaching financial literacy from an early age—through real money, earning, and budgeting conversations—is essential for developing healthy financial habits and awareness.
Main Topics
Mental wealth encompasses mental well-being, work-life balance, relationships, and financial peace—all interconnected aspects of overall health
Buy Now Pay Later schemes are particularly seductive and dangerous for people with mental health challenges, anxiety, depression, trauma, and addiction issues
BNPL plans can negatively impact credit scores and future financial opportunities like home or car purchases, especially for young people new to financial independence
Spending money—including through self-care framing—can become self-harm when it leads to overspending beyond means and accumulating debt
Digital and virtual spending behaviors create psychological distance from money, reducing awareness and increasing impulsivity compared to handling physical cash
Teaching children financial literacy with real money, budgeting, and earning is crucial; digital-only financial experiences make money feel less real and tethered to value
The pandemic as a global trauma has triggered increased mental health issues and significantly altered spending behaviors, particularly the shift to online shopping
Full TranscriptHello, this is Eva May, and I'm speaking to you from the Women's Radio Station for another in my series called Healing I...▼
Hello, this is Eva May, and I'm speaking to you from the Women's Radio Station for another in my series called Healing Image High. So Healing Image High is a series where I'm talking about things that, um, have helped me through my life with a history of severe mental health illness, namely dissociative identity disorder and complex PTSD. Now, one area that I really didn't think that I would be talking about or actually even considering to be an area to look at when I've been examining and sort of trying to improve my mental health is an area that I think we'll call mental wealth. And I came across this when I was reading, I've mentioned that quite often that I do like to read quite a lot, some, an article in Psychology Magazine some time ago now, which had been written by a lady from America. She lives near Chicago called Joyce Martha. And it was all about the impact of a new way of buying things called Buy Now Pay Later. They're arranged by different companies, so you're able to purchase items and then spread your payments over maybe 3 or 4 equal parts, or even delay the payment until later. Now, So Joyce had flagged this up as being something to really think about. It's a new thing. If you can do this, even if you don't have a credit card. So there's not really, there's a soft financial check on you on a background, but pretty much you can run these things together. And I must admit myself that I do use this. From time to time. I think mine is managed, but the way that Joyce had spoken about it made me really realize that I needed to be more aware and actually conscious of what I was buying and to keep track of my spending and also sort of my returns. And this then led to further apps that I needed to my phone and I'm not a person who's actually very good at looking at these things in any depth. And then from there I contacted Joyce and, well, she has, I'll introduce her to you now because she's my guest today. And she is somebody who I found, as I say, through psychology is about buy now, pay later. But I've also learned a huge amount more from Joyce. She is, um, an author of a book called The Financial Mindset Fix, and it's a mental fitness program for the abundant life, and it is available in hardcover and audiobook, and it's also published in, um, Spain and Latin America, Korea, and It's also in China as well. So I'd like to welcome Joyce. She's a licensed psychotherapist, entrepreneur, she's a national keynote speaker and, um, a mental health thought leader. So welcome, Joyce, and thank you so much. You can obviously tell I'm not very good with numbers because not only did your number work with money impact on me. But I've also seemed to have made a bit of a mess up with our number work and the times between our different time zones today. So, um, I apologize for that, and I'm absolutely delighted to invite you onto the show. Thank you so much, Eva May, and no worries at all. The time change is definitely confusing, and I just love that you speak openly about your mental health challenges because I firmly believe that we all have mental health issues as part of the human condition. And when we share openly, it's destigmatizing and normalizing for others. I know when I first started graduate school, I was afraid that my professors were going to see that I deal with an anxiety disorder and that they'd say I couldn't be a therapist, but we all have mental health, just like we have physical health. And it's so important to take care of it. And there is this powerful connection connection between mental health and financial health, which is why I blog for Psychology Today and wrote my book, really talking about this idea of mental wealth, having both mental well-being, work-life balance, supported connected relationships, and financial peace and prosperity. And yes, the buy now, pay later plans can be really sort of seductive for, for any of us. And people who are dealing with mental health challenges like anxiety or depression or trauma or addiction are even more susceptible to accumulating debt. And when we have higher debt, it negatively impacts our mental health. So it's really a vicious cycle. And I want to promote awareness and give people the tools and skills to take really good care of themselves emotionally and financially. No, thank you. Thank you, Joyce. I, you know, it was definitely the, like, the Klarna thing. It was— see, I don't have a credit card. Um, I have, I have a certain amount of money a month, and that is my, my money now. And this is best for me because, um, You know, even though I'm 56 and I'm, you know, married and I've got 3 children, adult children, giving me a lot of financial responsibility when I am working, you know, on my mental health is actually something that is better for me not to have too much of. It, it is absolutely, um to make my life easier, then I don't have so much of it in my life. But when I saw this— so I don't have a credit card. If I need one for buying things on, so I have insurance cover with that purchase, then obviously I will— my husband, we will use his card for that. So when I saw this Buy Now Pay Later, completely new thing really. Yeah, it was tempting. It's set out as well in quite an attractive way. And, you know, it welcomes you every time you put your PIN code in. And it is quite seductive, you're right. And when you look at, you think, gosh, I can just pay for that over 4 installments. That's pretty good. You know, that's okay, I can manage that. With my budget, what I have, but it doesn't stop you then going over and using another similar Buy Now Pay Later, which I have. So I've got two running at once. I hope my husband's not listening to this one. And yeah, I need to really wise up to it and stop doing this because it's pretty easy. And one of the concerns for me, for young people particularly with mental health issues, is that they might decide to go along this route and that it could affect their credit score and really impact later on, on, you know, maybe if they want to, you know, purchase a house, then this actually could impact them because they may be people who would otherwise be refused a credit card. Yes, exactly. You're right to be concerned, Eva May. It's great that you're spreading the word, and it sounds like you keeping your finances simple— yeah, I do— that's for your mental health. And so that's great that you've recognized that and that you live within your budget. And we, we're all different, we all have different strengths and areas of challenge, and in order to be financially conscious we need to have these important conversations in our partnerships and marriages and families and, and set healthy financial systems in place and healthy financial boundaries in our relationships. And it sounds like you've set up some parameters for yourself, like not having a credit card that help you from sort of hurting yourself or harming yourself. By accumulating debt, but these buy now pay later plans are a slippery slope. It's a new way of accumulating debt and maybe taking on more than we can manage. Yeah. So yes, and you're right, for young people, especially as we're moving through the pandemic, the pandemic is a global trauma. And the way that trauma works is when we're living through a, a global trauma that we can't process like we do usual life experiences. It brings up our past traumas and triggers mental health issues like stress, anxiety, and depression. And the research is showing that adolescents and young adults are having the most difficult time during these challenging times. And so they're also new in their financial life. So they're particularly vulnerable. Like you said, they haven't maybe purchased their first home or car, or they're early on in their careers and their incomes may be less. And so it's important to promote awareness and let people know that this may not be a good idea and to be very mindful and aware of how mental health can impact our spending. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, um, my, my listeners know that I used to be, um, a teacher, and I, I have, uh, one, one pupil, uh, that I still— well, it's a friend's, it's a friend's child, so, and they are 8, and they now have— they're excited about it, they are, but at 8 years old they're in bank card. So the whole way of, as a teacher and also as a mum, but definitely as a teacher, seeing children handle real money is a skill that I do not want to see going. And you know how a lot of children just don't see anyone in their family using, you know, actually real money. They're using cards or tapping their phone. So I was rather horrified when she— when I saw this, you know, she came round very excited with her card because she could design, you know, a design she wanted on it. So for me, children of that age going out, having a certain amount of money they may have for birthdays or you know, sort of pocket money we have, and actually using real money and working it all out. That is now something that's going even for, you know, very, very young children. And I think it's almost a danger now that things are so easily accessible. I know that I have friends, and I've done it myself, to make ourselves feel better, because we've been struggling with our mental health, we might go and spend some money and have like a treat to feel better. But actually what we're doing is causing ourselves a longer-term problem by not handling and facing up to money. People with eating disorders, to buy accessories, things that you don't need to try on, that is something that, can make them feel, you know, it gives you a nice hit of high. And I just think we all need to have a little bit of a wake-up, everybody, about how we use our money. Because my spending, I think everybody I know, the way that we spend and what we do with our money spent since the pandemic started has changed massively. I don't think I can even remember now how how it was before because it is so different. Our high street, a lot of it shut down, a lot of it's now online. So this way to buy, you know, even a couple of outfits just to try and send back without that initial outlay, it doesn't necessarily mean I send two back. I might keep both here, you know. So Yeah, what are your thoughts on sort of children now having bank cards instead of actually using money in their, in their purse? Yes, I think you make an excellent point, Eva May, a few excellent points there. Basically that sometimes we can treat ourselves and we think that we're practicing self-care, but it's actually self-harm when we're overspending and we, we're not spending within our means. And then the more virtual and digital our financial spending behaviors are, the more surreal they are and the less sort of awareness we might have about it and the more impulsivity when we can just click a button and order things, you know. And your point about children, it's so important for us to give our children financial roots and also financial wings, and we want to teach them financial literacy from an early age. But I agree with you, it needs to be with real money and really being tethered to reality around it. Having a little budget, having a little bank account that if, if they have earnings from a babysitting job or similar or birthday money, that that goes in there, that there's conversations about spending. And it is very concerning about kids having bank cards, or there are some sites now that it's almost like a video game for kids where they get coins for different things that they can spend, and it makes it much less tethered to reality. And kids really need to learn the value of money and of earning money and the importance of saving and spending within your means. And so having those conversations early on with kids and Having, you know, honest com— bringing them with you. I bring my kids to the bank with me sometimes and we'll talk to the bank teller for a while and have a meeting. And my girls are now 17 and 20, and I set up high school accounts for them. And my college daughter does have a credit card, but we sat with the banker and he really explained what interest is and how that can affect a person and explaining credit scores and things like that. And you know how kids are, sometimes they don't listen to their own parents, but talking to another professional, she, she definitely listened. I really like that idea. I really like that idea a lot. And because, to be perfectly honest, and I really hope that my family don't listen to this one, I couldn't tell you all about interest rates. I couldn't tell you how it all really worked, myself, I don't. So what you've done, I think, is such a valuable lesson. I think it would be also pretty handy if that was also talked about, you know, in schools, because I mean, I know a few people now who have gone through life earning their money, renting property, and now it's slightly dawning on them that retirement's not that far off, and they're not going to be able to rent forever and ever and ever. They need to plan to have the financial security and to have some money in a property. Because I think— so I do think there are several things here that education at an early age is so, so important to to have because, you know, people are getting into a situation where, you know, rental's expensive, but you do need to have some, build in some financial security for when you're older. So suddenly popping up really easy ways to buy, you know, you can buy some very expensive stuff on buy now pay later at a click of a button. So yeah, I think what you've done for your daughter is— she probably knows more about it than I do because I certainly don't really understand, uh, interest rates, uh, and especially, you know, the global finance an awful lot. Um, yeah, so I wanted to, um— I mean, fortunately my husband is— he's a business owner, so he is actually, uh You know, he's the one that can take care of this part. I'm lucky, I'm fortunate, and I'm the one that does the things that maybe he can't do. He is also extremely caring, you know, on how I am mentally and what I can and can't manage, because it might appear that I'm not really managing something as common as the that is necessary to be managed every day and be aware of, as my own finances. But I am honestly coping with really quite horrific trauma that, you know, most— touch wood, and thank you goodness God— not many people are having to ever deal with. So it's not like I've shut and buried my head or people like me have done that. We actually have an awful lot going on in the world that doesn't make sense and does impact a lot on our daily life. So to have someone to understand that this is difficult, to someone like you to talk about it with your— when you go and speak with companies or, you know, on your international stage virtually as well. I think it's important to understand that, and when I first read your book and you saying you went to do your psychology course, how you were slightly concerned because you had some anxiety issues yourself, that that might mean that you were not sort of suitable, or people might know, you didn't want people to know. But actually, people knowing is probably made you feel that, um, you're really not the only one. It's the best thing to do is to be honest. And like you say, we're all human beings and we do have so much that makes us who we are. So yeah, I'd like to make that point. I am not burying my head in the sand because I can't do it. I've actually got enough on that means I need some help in this area for someone else to do it with me because I find it confusing. I think, yes, either way. Does that make sense? It makes total sense, Eva May. And I am so happy that you have a loving and compassionate and supportive partner. Yeah, he has the rough deal, to be honest. Well, you're, you're lovely, and like you said, you have different strengths that you bring to the relationship. And as human beings, we're interdependent. And so I agree with you that I wish that, uh, financial literacy was taught to us when we were growing up. Yeah, I am happy my daughters did have personal finance as a course in high school. So I know at least in the States that that's being offered. And I see in my counseling practice that for women especially. We grow up, I think, hearing that we're not good at math, and we're not necessarily encouraged to go into finance. It's a very male-dominated industry. And in my counseling practice, I see a lot of very intelligent, high-functioning women like yourself and myself that are not financially literate. And some of them are less fortunate than you in that they're, they're not maybe in relationships that are as compassionate as yours, and it can be very disempowering. Empowering to not understand finances or be able to read a statement or understand interest. If your partner is the one that's managing all of that, it can lead to an imbalance in power and control in your relationship. It sounds like you and your husband have lovingly had these conversations. Yeah. About your mental health and the normal limitations that you experience or, or the ways in which you need to manage your life and lean on him for support in areas that, that are challenging or difficult for you. And we all have our strengths and our deficits. Yeah. And we all have mental health issues to some extent or other. And support is one of the chapters in my book. And, and I speak about the importance of having a team of people that you turn to for emotional and financial support, spiritual support, community support, and that makes us stronger and better, and it improves our mental well-being and financial health. So I think you've done a lovely, lovely job with that. Thank you. I, I think it also has given him something that he can do and do, do well to help me. He can't help me— he, he really can't help me with as being a therapist. He's, uh, has a, you know, patience issues kind of arise maybe sometimes with that one. So it is a way that he knows that he can sort of take care. I wouldn't— it's, it's not in a patronizing way, but, you know, yeah, I have so much money a month, I have certain things I need to buy that includes gifts and maybe bits for myself. And then that's That's it. That's how we have to— and that's great. I can do that. It's manageable. So it's not— and he's— if you've been through an awful lot of trauma, it's not good necessarily for our relationship for us to talk about it all the time. And it's also— there are bits of him that I want to protect from him from some of it too. And we need another life without all of this in it. You know, this is just parts of stuff that needs to go on. So I think if he's happy managing the finances and I'm happy with him, you know, doing that, obviously we do discuss like how much we're spending on things and those things are joint decisions, but we don't spend money that we don't have. And I think that's been really good for us as well. So that's one thing we don't need to worry about. Now, your book, it's quite large. It's quite a big book. And when I first looked at it, I thought, goodness me, this is, you know, a little bit quite challenging. And my concentration on reading is not always good. I think that's something to do with my mental health. I don't know, but yeah, that's certainly happened. But I think I was saying to you earlier, and I would say to listeners, it's the way that you've set it out is not like a book I've ever seen before, and especially about finance. If you'd given me a book about finance a few years ago, I would not probably have ever even, you know, opened the COVID But, you know, yours has— the way that the information in there, the things about, you know, you can really feel that it's been written by Joyce. Now I feel— I have a feeling that I know you in the way that you write. And you have these really lovely— now I can't remember what they're called. I call them petal circles, but they're probably— they're like flower circles where there's a there are bits, exercises for the reader to do having read your, you know, that far. And you then put some dots on some lines that are in concentric circles, and then you join them together, and then that gives you a little picture on the sort of the actual, the focus of that chapter and where you are with your own personal sort of issues with money. So that's in that sense. And I said to you before, I found that that was something that really made it easy for me to go back to the book, because I contributed to it in some way, by the way you'd set this out. So it was like a marker, like a bookmark to go back to that, and to look at it, and then to think about it. And you can actually think about how to change. So I found that. It's not a book about do this with your finance, this is interest, this is da da da. It was, it's actually, it's a very, I'd say a personal book that any person could read. You don't need to have any real financial sort of quality, you know, specialist qualities to read it. It is actually written to help and with an emphasis as well on mental wealth. And I think that, you know, not having financial sort of worries, to be aware of your own money in however it is you manage it, that is a really important thing. And I would recommend that you, you know, to go and to get Joyce's book. And I do also think that, Well, in my personal experience of not being able to concentrate very well when reading, that to have this available as an audiobook, that's absolutely fantastic because it means you can re-listen and actually, you know, listen to something that could really, really help you in your life and make you think about something. And I found it quite an interesting thing to talk about about with other people too. So thank you for that. Oh my goodness, Eva May, that makes me so happy. I'm so glad that you found it meaningful and that you feel connected to the book by— through the exercises. And I love those wheel exercises. It's my favorite part of the book, and they're really self-assessment tools. Yes. And, you know, I think it's, it's really valuable to kind of check in with ourselves and see how we're doing with these mindsets that lead to improved mental health and financial health. And when you were talking about your husband, I love that you two communicate, and that's so important to have these conversations about financial health and mental health in our intimate relationships. And you also talked about how he is able to provide some types of support, like the financial management, but maybe not so great in other aspects of emotional support that you turn to therapist. And in the support chapter of my book, the wheel, I have it a bonus wheel in that chapter where we assess and nurture our support network. So who provides you with mental health support? Who provides you with financial management support? Who provides you with spiritual support or community support? And I find that really important. And I've had some readers realize that they— one woman, for example, realized she had her husband on every aspect of support and not many other people, and she realized it was taxing her marriage. And somebody else realized that she had a lot of support in her profession but not in her emotional life, and she realized that's why she was a workaholic. So I think you can make a lot of interesting insights by completing these exercises. So I'm glad that you find it manageable and approachable, and I do think that it's a resource that we can all go back to. Even I use it myself. Yeah, I, you know, and it's Well, you— the way that you've done it is pretty— it's simple, but you get this visual, um, you know, result. You get a, you get a really good result. It's not, um, quite, quite a quick result, which I think is important sometimes, because if you're in therapy, results don't really happen quickly. It's a process and it can take a long time. So if you're looking at something, you know, that, that can actually— you've done and you've got this result, then I find that really helpful. Which I know it's got a sort of a little sort of a tenuous link is why I went and asked image professionals for help with makeup because I could get a bit of a result within 10 minutes. Whereas in my therapy it might take, it would take an awful lot longer to get. Do you see what I mean? Like sometimes we need in areas of our life to see an improvement or an outcome or something visible. That's changed and is there quicker. Yeah, it feels good to see progress. Yeah, that's it. And it's— we're all works in progress, and, and you're right, it's a, it's a practice, it's a way of living. The skills that I teach are, are ongoing, but you can measure yourself with the tools in the books and see that you're making progress, which feels really great. So how many countries is your book now available in? It must be— well, it's worldwide, isn't it? Well, I'm, I'm honored and excited that it recently was published in Spain, and it's being distributed throughout Spain and Latin America. And as you mentioned, it's coming up to be published in Korea and in China in Taiwanese as well. And I'm hoping for more global book deals as I continue to spread the mental wealth through my blogging and speaking and, and media interviews like yours. Yes. I'm hoping that I'll spread the word and, and more people can benefit from really the wisdom that I learned from my clients. You know, I had the honor of working with many different people, thousands of people over the last 25 years and learning from them about what makes people successful and happy in life. And I identified these 12 mindsets that are empirically proven to improve mental health and financial health and developed some fun, practical, easy exercises to help people build these skills. And like I said, I even use, use the tools as well. I was feeling kind of burnt out a couple weeks ago, so I did the self-love wheel and realized that I had slipped in some of my self-care practices, and that let me know what I needed to work on to, to take back myself. Oh, that's really— yeah, absolutely, because that is what it does. Because you can be honest with this, it's just you and, and, and the self-help wheel. And, um, yeah, it's, it's definitely— it's, it's a really, really good, um, assessment tool. And I can even imagine now that when I was drawing, connecting up the dots, the sort of pattern that I got, and then when I've repeated the exercise sometime later, the new pattern. So it is definitely an excellent, like, a self-help book. I know you've done all the work that you've put into it, but it's definitely I would say a book that, you know, most people could access this whether they go for the print or the audiobook. And we've only got about another minute left. I can't believe how that time has actually gone. So I'd really, really like to, well, say thank you so much to you and also for my little sort of mistakes with these, uh, time zones that are going on. I think— is it the United States? Do you have 3 different time zones? Yes, 3, and, and I think even 4. I think there's, there's any nuances. It's very confusing even within the United States. We make mistakes all the time, so don't feel bad. That does make me feel better, thank you, because, uh, yeah, I, I Googled and I thought I'd absolutely got it, um, and I did check about 3 times, so I'm sorry about that, but anyway, it's been absolutely amazing to have you here, and thank you for the book, thank you for the article. No, definitely you've impacted on me, and I hope by talking about this today that we can make other people think, because, you know, there are consequences if we're, we're not managing areas of our life that we could actually take some more responsibility for without having to go, you know, we can start with your book. You don't have to go and get sort of some really deep financial qualification or sit an exam. It is something that once you allow it to come in and not be frightened and put off by it that, um, you know, you, you can have this, this help. So I'd like to say thank you so much, Joyce, and enjoy the rest of your weekend. And, um, it's absolutely great having you today. Thank you so much, Eva May. It's been lovely, and I appreciate all your support. And I do have a new digital course if anyone would like to learn more about me or my work. My website is joycemarder.com. It's J-O-Y-C-E-M-A-R-D-E-R.com. M-a-r-t-e-r.com. The book is The Financial Mindset Fix. It's on Amazon and Barnes Noble. It's on Audible and Kindle. And I'd love to be a support. So if, if you want to follow me on social media, I'd love to connect and welcome any direct messages as well. Thank you. Oh, well, I hope— may be nice if we could have you, um, actually another time, Joyce. So we'll, uh, definitely keep that as a nice option to have. I would love that. Thank you. So the first part of this broadcast was that lovely interview that I had with my guest Joyce Marta, who's written The Financial Mindset Fix. And, you know, it really— it's a really, really good— um, it's very interesting, it's very thought-provoking. I think money is something that I've never actually had to discuss with anybody really as part of any treatment I've been through, and I've had 33 years of treatment. For me, one of the reasons why I want to do these shows is that we as a family have spent spent so much money on trying to get help for me because I live in the UK, and in the UK there are not trained specialists for dissociative identity disorder or complex PTSD. And I really, I want to change that. I don't really understand why that is. I had to go to America, so about 8 years ago, to a facility there that specialized in trauma. And I am suffering with a lot of unhealed trauma from when I was abused as a child. And I was abused for a prolonged period of time, but by a a group. And yeah, you know, I've actually recently been watching a couple of things on Netflix. I tend to watch these programs when I go to bed. I can't actually go to sleep like naturally. I take medication to sleep, so I kind of put an earphone in, and my husband doesn't like the light on, so reading's off, but And I do watch some things, and there've been a couple of programs which I've thought have been okay for me to watch, and then as they've progressed, I've thought— I've got this, uh-uh feeling where maybe it's not a good idea. But for some part of me, it is a good idea. There's one particular one where a doctor was, um, uh, being investigated for something. And, um, he, he gave us lots of other people that started coming forward because the people, family members who were involved in this sort of investigation, wanted to make it as public as they possibly could to try and find any information from other people. And other people did come forward. And one of the things that they came forward with was saying that this, this person that they were seeing as a medical professional who diagnosed them being calcium deficient or iron deficient, so they had appointments to have injections, and then they would realize that they'd go for an appointment and they would feel totally paralyzed, aware of what was going on but in a, like, in a removed, in a removed state. And, and then they were abused by, by this person. And I was totally— it was a moment where It's like, I know that, I absolutely know that, you know, that, that, that's what happened to me. And watching the, the people who, who've come forward about this, how it has really affected and impacted so, so deeply their lives, well I know now that, you know, what happened, what it was. I knew it was drugs. We all— I've been told that before. And but just seeing, you know, people who live in another country to me have had this with them for, for decades. And that's what it's like. It's something that is just so shocking that I'm And also I have like silent moments where I really cannot comprehend the extent of what happened because it's all I know. And it's starting to dawn on me and it is having an effect on, on me now. I'm in treatment now for 6 years. This. So, you know, I'm, I'm doing these broadcasts, but I am also going through treatment, and these realizations are happening as well. I think in particular Netflix, they're doing an awful lot of programs now, and I actually like the way— I applaud the way that they're doing them, being honest. And not, not giving sort of complete misery stories, but actually stating facts of what would have happened. And those facts are pretty hard-hitting, even if you've not been affected by it, because I cannot understand how a human would actually want to do anything like this to a human. So my family, we, we spent an awful lot of money on my treatment. We are sort of therapy poor, really. I've lost my job. So talking with Joyce about sort of financial issues, and she's not just talking in her book about finance being your only thing that you need to look at, and quite rightly she was highlighting how some people feel that they don't have— can identify through her book, because her book is— it's a really incredible piece, and to be available on audiobook as well. And Joyce has the most lovely voice, um, to listen to this and to actually think and take it in. It's written in 12 chapters which each focus on a different area of your life that I never thought of these. So I used to be, I would say, a workaholic when I was working, and I did the job that I did for over 20 years. I put so much into it, you know, took over a day at my weekends. I worked solidly, really hard during the week, got into work early, left late, came home, and kept on working. And I don't think that was probably because I didn't have the right support in the rest of my life at that time, because it is only— it's not even a year that I've now been with a specialist who's trained with complex PTSD in the UK, because it's just not recognized. So I went to Arizona to a facility, and it's an excellent model of how to deal with trauma and how to educate. I mean, I needed some education, I need some learning, I did some assignments. But if there were times when I wasn't very well, or I did dissociate, or— and there were episodes where that happened, and I did self-harm without knowing, because you— when this happens, you just don't know what's going on. Then I was put in a nursing— the nursing area, which meant that I was away from the main community. There were only 23 of us, and, and that really worked. And then when you came out of that state, then you were able to be put back into the community and everybody would know and you'd get the support you needed. But this cost my family thousands and thousands of pounds, and plus I've lost my job. I'm no longer able to work. I've lost— so we've lost an income. My whole income is gone and I was a workaholic and it was a distraction and I was good at what I did and I know that, but I really do, but that now has to— I don't have that anymore and with losing my job came the realization of how much I actually put in, how much energy actually went in, so physically and mentally And now that I don't have one, it's been very difficult to try and set in place a routine. Plus, you know, I do not have an income. I don't get an income from doing these broadcasts. I have to meet the costs myself. I've also got a lot of messing around at the moment with our Department of Work and Pensions, the DW. P, who my experience and that of other people that I know is, is pretty dreadful. They're not very helpful. They— the advice— they've done a lot of things that they shouldn't have done, and then we've got a tribunal thing coming in. They say they record stuff, but they don't. But then on their voice messages on there, recordings, because you do have to hang on. The last time I hung on was Monday and it was for over an hour. They tell you they may record things, and I phoned, uh, 3 days prior to this call having waited for over half an hour, and they had not recorded that at all. There was no record of it. So if you are phoning anybody about any sort of benefit, financial help that you may be able to claim for, I really recommend that you send things in recorded delivery because things I've posted in which they've said don't send recorded, they've actually lost. Things that have been sent in recorded, it's— it can— it says that it's been received, but they lose those too. But at least you've got some evidence and write down the date, the time. I do a screenshot of my phone with the time on it and their phone number to show how long I've waited for. And I've now started recording the calls myself because I don't trust that they are actually recording these, so I need to collect my own evidence. And ask for the name of the person that you've spoken to. They will only give their Christian name, And they should also be able to give you the name of the centre, so the town where they are working. So I'd really recommend that. But, you know, Joyce made me really think that I had this sort of work— I didn't have a work-life balance, and I think that was due to my mental health. It was so much easier to not I didn't have to think about it, and now I do, and it's extremely difficult. And I've got a fact sheet where, you know, money and mental health— there's a Money and Mental Health Policy Institute. It takes its research across England, and it does say that, you know, they do find that there's there is a cycle of money and mental health problems. So if you have mental health problems, then it makes it harder for you to earn. Well, yes, I've lost— I've lost my job completely, and I can't go back. I dissociated when I was at work, and on one occasion, I really don't even know how really what happened, but I ended up really badly harmed, not knowing at all what had happened. And I was actually at work but in a very serious condition, and I carried on trying to work and hadn't even realized the physical injury that I had. Someone I work with said, uh, I think you might need to go and see a doctor. And I'm like, why? What? Like, what's going on? And, and I'm not going to explain what happened, but I ended up that I did drive straight to my family doctor surgery. And I mean, they just took over from there and ambulance was called and all that sort of thing. And I was, uh, I needed emergency surgery. I'd lost an awful lot of blood, and I actually— I don't even— we don't even know how the damage happened, but I ended up needing a colostomy bag for 6 months due to damage to my intestines. So it's just a very— it's not common, which is good, but then it's also not common because there's nobody in the UK to really diagnose it or treat it, and that's not good. But, you know, if you have mental health problems and you're not able to earn— I'm not— I, I can't do these— this job anymore at the moment, and I also have a commitment for therapy which would make it very difficult for me to go to work, and that's 3 hours a week, and It also, because I do suffer from stress and anxiety and I have an awful lot going on in my head, I don't sleep well unless I'm medicated. I have to take medication for depression, and there's a couple of other things that are in there as well. And, you know, it's very easy to try and, and lose track of, of your spending because It's easier for me. I find it easier not to really worry about it. I try— I buy what I need. I have used these buy now pay later schemes that are popping up. I'm actually at a stage in my life where I don't really need to worry about a credit score really right now. I mean, I'm not going to be starting to buy a home or anything. Fortunately, we've already got to that stage, but it is, it is a little concerning that, you know, you can agree to terms and conditions, and I mean, I certainly don't read them all in great detail. Most of the time they're written in small font, I can't even read it, but I can be able to, to buy something and spread the payments over 4 equal parts. Well, that's good if it's just like one item and to spread, but you can, you can do multiple purchases for this, and you can also use more than one of these buy now pay later companies. There isn't really legislation around this yet because it's very new. I know that when I, I read an article about this when I was looking up online that these places, these companies, they would like to have legislation put in place to protect them and to also protect their customers. So, you know, it's easy for me to— I mean, the last thing I bought, I don't think this is bad, is a present for one of my children and they'd come to a special milestone and I wanted to buy them something to mark that, so I bought something that is going to be spread over 4 equal payments, so that takes me I think over 2 or 3 months, so that's manageable because I wouldn't be able to have bought that in one go. It would have been, it's too expensive for my budget. So should I be looking at things, or should I be saying, right, I know that I'm going to have this X amount of money taken out of my bank account. Mine is linked to my bank card, so I cannot miss a payment because I certainly do not want to do that. That would get me extremely worried. I wouldn't be able to sort of cope with it. Sort it all out. And so, after the 4 payments, then I've got this, this bag. I mean, people buy cars and things that they have sort of 3, 4 years, and then you've not even owned the vehicle after that. There are so many ways that we can want something that's sort of expensive, luxury, not maybe a necessity, and And there are so many ways that people will try and help you buy this. And you're buying a car, they love it if you buy it on finance because they're going to make more money, or that they certainly get more commission for that. But, you know, if you, if you're really, really struggling, and I'm, I know that I've got these payments going out for this item I bought for one of my kids. So I've cut down, you know, I have cut down on, you know, my normal buying things for myself. I'm just focusing on buying essential food and things that we need in the house. And now Joyce was saying that she took her daughter in— she takes her kids into the bank with her in the States, and they talk to a teller, I think we call that That would be somebody, you know, who works in a bank. Well, the banks that I work for, they push so hard now that you use an app. I don't have the app for my banking. I've had my bank account with this bank for 40 years, and I like to keep it as it is. But if I do go into the bank to, I don't know, maybe pay some checks in or get some money out, or go and check my balance or something like that. The people in the bank now, there's very few staff and they just direct you to a machine. It's all becoming so automated and I think in— to have Joyce was saying that she's actually had someone explain to her daughter when she set up her student finance about interest and money from, from the get-go. I've never had that. Nobody's ever spoken to me about that, and to get to talk to somebody in the bank now is extremely difficult. We've got banks with branches are closing. So I rather messed up with my interview with Joyce in two ways. I got the time zone wrong. I checked on Google, maybe, and I thought that I'd got her time for the area that she lives in the United States, because it has at least 3 time zones, main ones, and I got that wrong. And the other thing was, I've recorded with Joyce, it was meant to be a full 60 minutes, because that's what each broadcast is, But I actually somehow— and I was using Zoom and the timer and everything— only 37 minutes has been recorded. So that's probably an error on my part. You know, I'd love to go and do a little— learn a bit more about how to use my computer. I'm not that great at it. I wish I was. It's not, it's not like the money thing where I don't want to look at it, but I certainly do. And I have now actually asked a friend for some help with this, and he's going to come and help me. A lot younger than I am and be a lot more savvy on the computers. So I think the other thing about having mental health issues is that I have quite a poor memory, and if I do, I bought a dress for a wedding using a Buy Now Pay Later because I wanted something nice. It was on sale, but I still used the Buy Now Pay Later because I ordered two sizes and I wanted to try both on without using all the money in my sort of my bank accounts, and Then, then I completely forgot where I put the box with the one to return in, and I just had the lapse of memory. Fortunately, it's, it's all fine and I managed to return it, but you have to make sure that you're really on this because I do not want to be caught in a trap of spending feeling good not having the money. Because before this buy now pay later, I probably wouldn't have bought my child this, um, sort of item because there wouldn't have been a way for me to do it. So I hope that's useful, and thank you so much for listening. And I will record with Joyce again so that we can have a good full hour talk because she's a lot to say.
