Judymay Is Listening – Ellie Edwards-Scott

Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life, and I listen, and together we transform everything. Welcome, welcome. We are coming to you live from Covent Garden. It is noon on Monday. Monday, the time when we gather, or if you're listening to this on a recording, you're either listening at noon or midnight during the week. It is so wonderful to have you back here because you know what? Every time that we meet like this and remind ourselves that there is much more that we can be experiencing, that we can be giving, that we can be receiving in life, the better it is for everybody. And today I have a guest for you that I'm so, so excited about. I'm going to introduce her in a little while. And the things that we're going to be talking about are business things. Now, a lot of you, when I said business, things kind of went, oh, oh, no. But trust me, this lady makes it so fun, so interesting and so practical. You're just going to be blown away by her. And the thing that a lot of us as women believe, the notes that I got in from you this week when I told you about the theme and the guest was that a lot of you were saying, I just don't know what I'm doing wrong or I'm just not good at business. And you kind of had these, like, gigantic big umbrella terms that you were using when it came to business. And you sort of like, you know, painting yourself in a way that said, just, I'm not that I'm something else. Now, hopefully all the something else's that you've got stacked up are super awesome. But trust me, all those other things that you're good at, being good with listening to people, being good at speaking to people, being good at rallying the troops, being good at getting everyone out the door for school, being at dyeing your hair gorgeous colors, being good at singing, all those things actually play into how you do business. But very often when we are telling ourselves a story that we're not good at something, we tell ourselves that it's something difficult, something other than what we are. And then when we go and become good at that, we kind of have a feeling of, oh, really? Is that all it is? Okay. I thought sales was like this special magic parlor trick. I didn't realize it was just talking to people and finding out what was going on and saying to them, hey, you might like this. I didn't know that. And you're going to find out today that business is something that you're good at. It's something that you can get very excited about and it's something that you can start to grow so that by this time next year, you are just amazing yourself and everybody around you. So, Ellie, welcome. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do as a digital genius is the way I think about you. Thanks so much, Judy. So I run a consultancy, digital consultancy, called the Advisory Collective. And we do two things really. We help businesses, non UK businesses, so they could be global, they could be European. We help them land and launch into the uk, adapting their business model and strategies to kind of make them successful. And then we also work with businesses within the UK kind of around sub, 2, 3 year, 3 years in existence and just help them kind of reboot or give them a kickstart and kind of accelerate. So we give them an outside viewpoint and just see where the issues or where they may be stagnating and kind of help them to that next level. I imagine that there's a couple of things that if someone has started a business within the last few years and they, they, they are kind of stagnant around it, they're sort of like, okay, I've reached this ceiling. It's not getting any better, or it's kind of slowly declining, or it's staying the same, but I'm having to put in the same amount of work as I was when it was growing. I, I imagine that the two things that they would, they would think would be either that they can't afford you or that they wouldn't get enough from getting outside advice. A lot of times I feel that with people, you know, they want to come to me for coaching, but they say something like, well, I just don't have the money right now. When I have the money, I'll come and get coaching from you. I'm like, wow, that's really putting the cart before the horse. Because you can very quickly have that money. All you got to do is like scrape it together for one time and then we can make sure that that's never a problem again. Is that something that you come up against? That's so true. Both those points really pertinent. So in terms of the financial aspect, I say have a conversation with us. It's myself and my business partner. We are flexible. Obviously we're not free, you know, you know, from your business, running your own business. And sometimes it's quite insulting. I think when people come to you, you have a talent, you have a skill and expect you to kind of give that knowledge away for nothing. But we are flexible and we work with each business and each company on a kind of personal and tailored level. So, you know, we can look at the budget, we can look at what they want to achieve, and then kind of put a plan in place. Why is it, do you think, that people don't just ask questions, that they feel that they have to have something sorted before they go in and, you know, lift a phone or send an email to someone? What is that? I think, particularly about women, I think. I was going to say, I think women especially, I think we. We need to have all those boxes ticked. We feel before we go and do something. You know, there's been stats saying that men will apply for a job with maybe 50% of the qualifications. With women, you know, we want that 90 or kind of close to 100% to be confident to apply for that job. And I've heard that the number that you should be going in at is about 30%. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's about what you can do, but also that ambition and that passion and learning on the spot and opportunity to kind of go out and find the answers. You don't need to have all the. The answers at your fingertips. And then the important thing is to bring in specialists. I mean, you mentioned it yourself in terms of the life coaching that you do. If people want to get to a certain level, they need to understand that you need to put certain building blocks in place and you have to pay for these special skills. And I think that's important for businesses. And do you think that because there's so much free advice, unsolicited advice or YouTube advice that can be very good out there, that people are thinking that they don't have to pay for it? Because I remember, you know, when I was a teenager and a student back in the 80s and early 90s, if I wanted to learn to dance, there was one way of doing it. You went down the road, you paid the dance teacher, and you got yourself a dance class. You know, you want to get a certain specialty under your belt. You pay the university, you get your degree. Do you think that these days people are thinking that the only thing they can get from experts is what's available? Because I look at the coaching that goes on on YouTube, and some of it's, you know, lovely kind of generic advice, but I kind of pull my hair out thinking, wow, do people think that that's all I do, is I say that to them again, rather than being able to really get in there deep and find out what it is about them. You know, do you think that that maybe is part of why people aren't coming to experts like you? I think the Internet, I mean, obviously, you know, I've been working in online for, gosh, about 15 years, been in media over 20, and the Internet's a great thing. I mean, it pays my bills. So, you know, it's wonderful, it's a wonderful source of information. But as you say, there is so much information out there and so many people can claim to be specialists. I think it's important to recognize as a business where you may need some additional help. It may be in sales. Not everybody can, is comfortable selling or negotiating. It may be marketing, it may be pr. I think it's important for companies to look at their business and be honest about where those gaps are, what that specialist can, can bring in. I mean, a point you mentioned earlier was a company's reluctance sometimes bringing outside help. I do find it quite astounding in the fact that I've spoken to businesses who are looking to launch and they, they want to go down, that we need to get a full time head in, in place. And actually they could work with myself, my business partner, in the meantime, have a, you know, double the headcount, have somebody on the ground, but they kind of wait three, six months to get that person in rather than launch a business. So it is that idea of, you know, somebody, a consultant maybe they don't feel as confident that that person is working for their business when actually I'd argue you're so committed to it because your KPIs are about that business's success. So you're actually even more dedicated now as I'm speaking to you, hearing phrases like KPIs and launch, and they're all phrases that I'm familiar with and comfortable with. But I know a lot of people listening to Judy May's listening are kind of thinking that suddenly because that language is being used, that it's not for them, that they somehow have to be in business or do things either for free or them at a very local level and somehow get good at this stuff. And then once they can speak that language, then they can, you know, get in with there with the big girls, as it were. So what would you say around, around language? Because I think, you know, we both work with a lot of men, a lot of very successful men, and for them, they love the language. It's like putting on a uniform for them. They're just sort of like, you Know, just trotting out these phrases. But I find for women that sometimes we do better when we can just use our own phrases around it. And sometimes I think women feel that that's somehow not okay and it'll flag them as being not sincere or not worth doing business with. I think it's important to bring your true self to work and to business and be your true self. I think, you know, language is an element of that. And digital especially, there are so many words and so many phrases, people kind of can get bamboozled. What's your favorite bamboozling phrase? Oh, well, this. Oh, my goodness. We talk about programmatic. We talk about fraud, online fraud. We talk about. We. I mentioned KPIs. We talk about transparency. You know, these words which have dual meanings. But people like, what, what, what does that mean? And, And I, I'm very comfortable being the biggest idiot in the room. Like, if I don't understand something, I don't care who else is in the room. I, I'm always there to learn. So I will sort of say, oh, what, what exactly does that mean or what does that mean in that context? And I think then as women, though, because we feel that we are having to over prove ourselves and over earn our place at the table, we can be more reluctant to ask those questions. Yeah, asking questions. Asking questions is important. And, you know, if you're not comfortable doing it in the room, then take somebody aside afterwards, I'd recommend and just say, oh, when you were talking about this, what exactly did you mean? So you can still arm yourself for that next conversation. But, yeah, definitely ask questions or look it up. That's a great thing about online. If you care a word or phrase and you don't have anybody that you can ask or feel comfortable asking, look that up and then see how that applies to your business. Yeah, just run into the stall and lose and just kind of go, okay, right, I'm expert now. I'll run out again. Fantastic. Well, we are going to be dedicating this whole hour to talking with Ellie about business and how it is that you can grow stronger and start to feel really relaxed in growing your business, growing your tribe, becoming more and more experts so that you can raise up other women. As we know, that's a really, really important thing. Toni Morrison passed away this week, and one thing that she taught us was, you know, once we raise ourselves up, it is our duty to raise up the next generation. And that's what we're here doing. Talk to you soon. Welcome to women's Radio Station. 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Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradiostation, that's womensradio STN or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. And welcome to Judy Mae is listening. You are here with myself and Ellie Edwards Scott. Ellie Edwards Scott is 1/2 along with Lisa Menaldo of the advisory collective and that is the most incredible digital. Have I got this right? Digital advertising consultancy. Consultancy. Okay, there we go. So what we're going to do is we're going to be chatting now about tribe. What is the importance of tribe for you? Because we know that here at WRS women's radio station we are the most incredible tribe. All about supporting women's well being. We're all about coming together. I just adore the fact that I get to hang out with Melies every week and then almost every week we have Elspeth with us who unfortunately couldn't be here today and incredible guests who come back again and again and the listeners get to know them and that's one of my tribes. What is it about your tribe and how is that different from maybe tribes that you were part of earlier on in your life? I think tribe is so important as I mean I've had, I've been fortunate enough to have some really influential women in my life who have helped me, held me up, strengthened me, you know, when times are bad and just kind of pushed and kind of driven me. I now part of a fantastic digital leading ladies tribe and this was started by myself and five other senior ladies in the industry just really recognizing that we needed a support network. You know, we knew each other and we wanted to make sure that we were lifting up other women. But we'd given women opportunities to speak at events. If we were hosting conferences, we were letting each other know when somebody was doing well or maybe not so well and needed some help. We were coming together at events, networking and this has been going on now for just, well, just shy of a year. And you know there's 140 odd ladies within this group. We recently out in Cannes we had a huge lunch for like 40 odd of us and just sat there and celebrated being women in the industry and also talked about the challenges that women still face in the industry. And it is important to do it in a More structured way, because, as you said, you knew each other already, but gathering together under an umbrella of, you know, this is our time and this is our space for us to talk about how we can support each other, how we can learn from each other. Do you feel that there are a lot of women who could just make their tribes stronger simply by gathering it in a more formal way? That it's like every Tuesday morning we go to Tracy's house or something like that? Definitely. I mean, we started. Structure is a really important part because we started and we just thought, let's be organic. Let it kind of happen. And it's a WhatsApp group at the moment. And as more and more people were coming in and we were, you know, you. Someone would join the group, and then 100 women say, you know, hello back, and it's just noise in the background. So we said, actually, let's rein this in a bit and what do we want to do? So we're in a process now of doing our manifesto where we do have formal events that we hold throughout the year. And some of these are networking events. Some of these are, as I say, just kind of lunch and a time to be together. And then we also support each other when we're at events. Someone's speaking at a conference and others are attending. So, you know, we kind of pull each other in that way. But that structure is important because you shouldn't be afraid to come together. But what do you want to achieve out of it? You know, what is the purpose? What is the goal? For some women coming in, it's just about the networking. For others, it could be about job opportunities. You know, this opportunity came about for me via a fantastic lady that I met in the group, Kate Oliver, I think. Yes. You know, Kate. So, yeah, that's the end of the show. And that's absolutely, you know, that's what you want. You want people to kind of support and champion each other. So it's great. That is phenomenal. In fact, that's how I started out in 1999. I was living in Paris. Not. Well, like, when you say you're living in Paris, people have visions of you, you know, strolling down the Champs Elysees with a baguette and a bunch of flowers. I was in the Marais, crying and hungover. That's how untogether my life was back then. But one thing I did do, and I did do well, was every single Saturday, gathered together a group of people in this little cafe that doesn't exist anymore, sadly, beside the Picasso museum. And between 2 o' clock and 4 o', clock, we used to just set goals for the week. And it was ridiculous. It was so cobbled together, you wouldn't believe it. But it was just important to put that framework, to put that focus on it and just to remind yourself that you're not alone. Because a lot of women feel alone, either because they're at home with young kids or because they have been working in an isolated way in the workplace. They've been taking on too much work and they haven't had time to just even wander the corridors. And, you know, I think that it's really, really important that we do that. And so can anyone just reach out? Yeah, yeah, definitely. The best way to reach out to us is just Digital. Leading ladies, mail.com and one of us will get back to you. And we'd love to have people involved, we'd love to have more people on board. As I say, we're doing various events throughout the year. We do a charity breakfast, we do lunches, we do networking, and it will continue to evolve and to grow. So, yeah, just reach out to us via email. That'd be fantastic. You had me at breakfast. Myself and Ellie have already worked out that I'm a breakfast person and I'm not. Not yet is what I've decided. I always make sure that I have the most delicious, amazing, beautiful breakfast in the most gorgeous parts of the planet. And I'm going to turn you on to how fabulous and fun that is. Anyone who follows me on Instagram, if you want to do that, by the way, it's JudyMayMurphy. You'll see, almost every day, I will put up a picture of my stunningly gorgeous breakfast. Yesterday's breakfast even had flowers on it. There you go. It was. It was porridge, but it did have flowers. I am a foodie, but just not breakfast. Not yet. I have plans for you, Alexa. Plans for you. So what would you say is stopping women from reaching out to each other? Is it this sort of like, more male idea of that in order to get ahead you have to be competitive? Or that in order to be professional, you have to be sort of stoic and unvulnerable? Is there a little kind of bleed through from that or something? Definitely. I mean, I've worked in organizations where I've had some fantastic senior women, one in particular who champions and continues to kind of champion me, and it's absolutely fantastic. You know, she's a phenomenal force. She is incredibly busy, but she just brings people in. And includes. And I've been even at my kind of lowest point, she's always kind of been there and supported and championed which, which has been amazing. But I've also worked in companies and I think business store does breed that with women that you have to maybe act more masculine to get on or you. Once a woman gets to a certain position, they've kind of maybe clawed their way there. So actually, rather than helping others and making it easier for others to get to that position, they're kind of there and pushing people back. And I don't think that movie and book the Devil Wears Prada did any of us any favors, to be honest. I know, but it's true. I've met with women like that and it's really, really sad. You see it happening. I mean, as much as tribe is important, there are people and there are times in my career where I know that people haven't been wishing the best or, you know, when, when you do stumble, people are quite happy to see you stumble rather than saying, how can I help? And it, it's, it's sad that women still feel that we have, we have to be like that. I mean, I look at, I've got two children, a boy and a girl, and I look at, my son is the eldest and I look at girls. Some of the, you know, issues that my 9 year old has gone through with girls, and you see it and think, gosh, do women, do we start it that young? And it's incredible to see, but I think that if we recognize, if we can just kind of like label them for ourselves, say, okay, that person is an ally, that person is not an ally, definitely. And then sort of take it from there. And just once we've labeled someone as unhelpful, we realize that if they are being helpful, it's in order to get something from us. Exactly. And to better themselves rather than me. And to just be, you know, hyper aware of that and not think that they've suddenly seen the light and they get that you're a genius at what you do. I think that's a mistake a lot of my clients make is they say, oh, I was, you know, my boss was being really nice, I was getting on really well with them. And then suddenly they did this. It's kind of like, well, that's the nature of the beast. There's a huge difference between the people who can be nice and the people who are nice. And if we identify the people who are nice and just stick around them, this is what we discover here at WRS all the time. We just stick around the women who are nice. There's enough of us doing enough good stuff and willing to help. And you know, it really is possible for us to bring each other higher. Definitely. And then there's enough to go around. I mean, success. I love the fact that I've got successful people around me. It drives you, it's spurs you on. And you know, success doesn't. It means different things for different people. It doesn't have to be, you know, everybody has a financial success. It could be somebody who's, you know, launched her own business, doing their own thing, doing their own passion, you know, finally had a child after not being able. Success is so many different things to so many different people. You're right. The inspiration is everywhere. In fact, this morning a really good friend of our show, she's been on a few times, Zena Gustart is in New York. She's just re choreographed the new version of Bat Outta Hell for Broadway which will then I think it's going to be coming back to the east End then or east west end, why not both? And the great thing about that is like she today she was like setting the dancers for the nationwide phenomenal TV show, the Today show and Xena was doing that. And the fact that, you know, she was here sharing at the times where she felt she wasn't supportive, where she felt she didn't have Tribe. You heard that? Yeah, I heard it last year. Right. And how that can turn around and just because it feels like it's forever doesn't mean it is forever. Did you ever have a time where you felt like it wasn't going to pop for you? Definitely. Before I started up my own business, I went through quite a tough time within a corporate environment and I really doubted myself. I mean that was when the importance of tribe, my family, you know, was important to kind of get me through that as well as my friends, as well as people within business. Because I needed that strength, you know, not just that inner strength, but to be able to pull from other people and people to believe in me and kind of help me get back up on my feet. And that is so important to know that just because it feels like it's not working, that that's not a fact. Feelings are not facts. It's just what your brain is trying to, to protect you with in that moment. And what are you excited about when it comes to building Tribe? I'm just excited about the power, you know, what, what can be achieved if I talk about digital leading Ladies, we went from a lunch in Cannes. We could attend the Cannes Leon's every year which is a big creativity festival. We went from a lunch off having I think there were just under 20 of us last year to over 40 of us fisciate. I look at the fact that we've grown to 150 women and counting. You know, just the power. Where can we take this? Yeah, and I know where we're going to take it next. We're going to be talking more and more and more about the amazing things that all of us as women can do to bring our businesses even higher and have a really good time and support each other as we do so. Welcome to the women's radio station Supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Confused. Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don't know where to start. @empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Ann Kelleher. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months, I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops interviewing customers asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip. For our listeners, the most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum, juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you. 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For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Welcome to Judy. Judy May is Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. This is Judy Mae Murphy and you're listening to Judy May's Listening, where we listen to what it is that's going on in your life and make sure that we can take that and transform it. And what we've heard from you this week is just sort of a general idea of business not being really your thing. So what myself and Ellie Edwards Scott are doing today is we are turning around your idea of what is possible for you and what can feel good for you. So we've talked about building Tribe and the importance of that. And Ellie, what would you say is a really important way to look at your business when you're starting out? Because a lot of people, it's kind of. It seems like it's all these disparate little pockets of things that somehow are popping or not popping or, you know, it can feel a little bit like herding kittens. What would you say or say that, you know, the top three things that we need to look at if we're looking to transform or build our business? I think, firstly, what is your product or service like? Just in a succinct way, you know, you may start and think, I can do a bit of this, bit of that, bit of the other. But actually, what is the core of your product, business or service that you will be offering once? And it's amazing how people aren't clear on that, isn't it? No, it's like, oh, I can do this and I can do that, but actually, what is it that you're good at and you will be focused on doing? I think that's a really important thing. Just Distilling it down. And I remember meeting a woman who sort of said to me, but I'm really good at organizing things and I can take photographs, but that's not really what I like to do. And then 20 minutes later I said to so it sounds as if you're a wedding planner. And she said, I'd like to be. I'm like, okay, so from now on, I'm a wedding planner. And she now has the most phenomenal business as a wedding planner. But we don't think of that as, you know, getting our thinking and our vision for what we're doing into sharp focus and be able to describe it in a very succinct way. So, yeah, yeah, that's really important. And then once you understand and know what it is that you are doing, look at your competitors, look at the environment. Because if you're a wedding planner in, and you live in a small village and there are six other wedding planners locally, then yeah, you know, you can have a tougher time than if you're one off, you know, two within a big city. It's not saying that you can't do it, but you just need to understand the environment that you're in and who else may be doing similar things to what you're doing. And I guess as well that when you do that, you can get some ideas of. Oh yeah, I offer that too. I haven't thought of that as an add on or oh, I can do this thing that no one else is mentioning. I can actually like, whatever it is that you can actually do. You can fly an airplane, so you can bring them to the nearest airport to go on their honeymoon or whatever it is. Exactly, exactly. I mean, we say, you know, using another. An acronym business, an acronym, we'd say a usp. But what is your unique selling proposition? What makes it special? And what would make customers buy from you? And then that's the third thing, like who is your target market? Who is your ideal customer? What does. And I would really take this to the point of kind of sketching it out. What does he or she look, you know, he or she look like? What age? What media do they read? So just to really understand the mindset of the customer. And this could be if it's a service, it could be, what type of businesses are you pitching to and who would buy your product? But just to really understand and then you can build out from there. A lot of people, I imagine, would be scared to look at the competition because they'd feel that just emotionally they'd be taken out by that, that they'd be overwhelmed. If they're looking at somebody else who's been doing it for 10 years and they've been doing it for 10 minutes, then looking at the competition can be quite daunting. Yeah, but you have to know, you have to know your market. And it's interesting because some people think, oh, I can't do this because somebody else is doing it. But look at how we shop. You know, we buy clothes from different shops. You don't just go to one shop for your, you know, all your shoes or your dresses or your hats. So, you know, competition is good. Customers want choice, businesses want choice. And actually having. Looking at what others are doing and then maybe doing it slightly different or doing it slightly better, or the fact that you're new to the business and have a fresher outlook that's going to encourage people to kind of come to you. Don't you find, as women, though, that idea of your value, your special thing about you, is something that wasn't really mirrored back to us as kids. A lot of us didn't get that idea of, oh, look, you're doing this, that's a good thing. We didn't in any way get that message. And so it's harder for us to see that value now. I remember when I first, you know, a couple of decades ago, I had this amazing coach and he said to me something about my value. He said, so what value do you think that you would bring to a relationship? And I honestly couldn't think of one thing. And it's something that I see in women. I've more than caught up. I can give you. I can sit for hours and tell you everything that's awesome about me. But the thing is that as women, because we're not encouraged in that way, because it's kind of presumed that we need to be more humble, more meek, play it down a little bit, that, that then can follow through into our business lives where we are just sitting there and only describing ourselves from a down position, a one down position all the time. Definitely. And I think, you know, we take so much for granted. I mean, you know, if you're a mother and a working mother, you'll be able. Your ability to multitask will be amazing. That's a phenomenal skill that, you know, can help you launch your business, be in a business and, you know, it's really, really valuable. I think we take so much for granted in terms of what we do that we don't see the value in it. And actually it's important if you're a good listener. Well, then, you know, will that help in certain careers? If you're a really gregarious kind of friendly person? Well, great. When you're going out and you're networking, that will mean that you, when you go to an event, you'll be more likely to meet people and connect with people. So there are kind of our personality traits take for granted, but actually can be translated into business skills. And I find as well that a lot of the men that I coach, they do take for granted what they would see as soft skills. So they sort of think, oh, that's nice, but it's somehow not important. I think that we receive a lot of that message, that somehow, you know, it's nice, but it's not the core thing. It's not the important thing. Whereas, as you know, in business, the relationship is the core thing. Yeah, yeah. You have to be, you have to be personable. You have to be able to get on with, you know, a lot of people. And even, you know, it's not about being that person's best friends, but it's understanding the value and actually understanding how to communicate with a lot of different personality types. That's a real skill in business and a necessity because you are going to meet different types of people and different types of egos and personalities, and you're going to have to be able to balance working with those. So when we are rebooting or launching our business, the first thing we're looking at is that we are getting clear on what it is exactly that our product or service is. The next thing that we're doing is we are looking at the competition to see, you know, is it viable within where we are, do we need to, do we need to tweak, do we need to make some new decisions there? But also to see what is our own unique selling point, what is our, our own value that we are bringing that we might have been looking, overlooking until now. And what would you say is the third thing? Identify the customer. Who is your target market? Who are you going to be selling or working with? Because that's important and are there enough of them out there and then go and, you know, maybe have some soft conversations. If you can find somebody friendly to reach out to, to test your proposition, to see if it is viable and to get some feedback as to how that product or service would actually work. And again, what I find with women is that they will very often get everything right when it comes to the ideal client, except they Somehow just keep choosing people who don't have money, that seems to be the missing piece. And so when I'm working with people, I always say, I'm sure the same things. Like, number one is they have to have the money. Definitely. If you don't have a lot of money yourself, as a lot of people don't, when they're starting out, they presume that the thing that is the missing piece for them is the missing piece for everybody. So if they don't have spare money, say, to get coached or to hire you as a consultant or to buy an extra pair of shoes or to whatever, they presume that no one has that. But for some people, money is not the issue. Money, you know, or time might not be the issue. A lot of people who don't have time, they then presume that nobody has time. I've got quite a lot of time. I've set my life up where I've got nice little pockets of time to do what I want. So do you find that. That people will be quite good at defining what the ideal customer is, but then a couple of key points will be off the rails, definitely. Or being afraid to ask. It's recognizing your value. You know, when I first started out, I was solo when I first started out, and I would meet a lot of people for coffees. I had a lot of coffee, which was great, because you need to have sounding boards, you need to speak to people to find out if your services is viable. But then when people and companies who have that money started wanting to have a second coffee or third coffee, I was like, hang on a minute. That my time is money. You know, I travel in an hour for an hour's meeting, I travel back for an hour. Three hours of my time is money. And it's actually. It took me some time to transition to say, yes, I'll come and meet you, but it will cost you this, because even having that conversation about what you could do, what I could, You've given information. Exactly. So it's about understanding your value and actually asking for, you know, to be paid for that. And it's something that women still shy, you know, we still got kind of. Oh, should. Should we do that? Shouldn't we just, you know, just have a chat and see? Okay, but people are getting that information for you. You know, I'm sure people come to you all the time and. Or just they just like a little chat. Yeah, exactly. Can I just sit here for five minutes? No, no, not half an hour. Chat. Well, that's, you know, My time's money. Yeah. I'm very, very careful about, if I hear any advice coming out of my mouth, I just, I stop halfway through the sentence and I kind of go, oh, but that's, you know, that's probably something you should work on with your coach. And they say they don't have a coach. And I'm like, that's probably why you've sat yourself down here. Right? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's just, it is all so important that we, that we value ourselves in that way. Definitely. And be prepared that some people won't like that when you're, when you have, when you put up a boundary, if they think that they're going to get you for free and you make a comment. And sadly, it's mostly men who get very angry with me if I say that. No. Well, we can set up a session. Exactly. This is how much it is. And they're like, oh, no, no, no, I don't want coaching, I just want a bit of advice. It's kind of like, yeah, that's a little bit of a blurry one. I can't wait for us to keep talking for the next quarter of an hour. I could talk about this all day. And we'll be back really, really soon, right after these. Welcome to Women's radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibility are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on women's radio station. 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So that would be eliatevisorycollective.co.uk sorry, Ellie. At theadvisorycollective.co.uk. it's quite long. Excellent. That's good. They'll find you. And here on wrs, we're all about supporting women's well Being and we also always acknowledge that it's not the same for all women. Women, that women who aren't able bodied have a different path to women who are able bodied. Women who come from a more disadvantaged background have it different from women who come from a more privileged background. And women who are white have it easier than women who are not white. And so do you find that as a black woman in London that there are doors that are closed to you or are you looked at different? Are you looked at as just ticking a diversity box? Do you find you have got to work harder? It's interesting. So I think definitely I've had to and continue to work harder. I think that's fact. The advertising and media industry, we've recognised there are issues around diversity and inclusivity and we are making steps, but it's still taking some time. If you look at media agencies, and I've worked in two media agencies, I think within London, I think the black ethnic minority population, I think is about 41% within London. Within media agencies, it's around 13%. So you don't see. And as you kind of rise through the ranks, you don't see a lot of people that look like you. I mean, entry level, it's very female orientated, you have some diversity and then as you kind of increase in your seniority, you find that you are the only person in the meeting. You know, I would tick a couple of boxes being the only female at the meeting, any black person at the meeting. And that's sad, you know, in this day and age that that does still exist. And with that come the challenges because in terms of how you're viewed and if you speak out and what people you say, and if you're passionate about something, is it you coming across as aggressive? And all these kind of stereotypes do come into play. And do you find yourself doing that double think all the time? I've been in the industry so long now that I, I just kind of take it as it is. I do, though, whenever I go into a room, I do a quick scan round and I. And I will kind of count and I go to conferences, I've spoken at conferences and I've been like, you know, out of a room of 100 people, I'm like 1 or 4, 1 or 5, and maybe the only black female. And that's sadly still where we are today. We are doing a lot American, a lot of different groups now within the industry looking to change that dialogue, but it isn't, you know, it isn't as fast as it should be. And what can white women like me do to help recognize it? It's the first thing, you know, rather than arguing against the I'm not racist line. Exactly, exactly. No, you don't. It's not about being not racist. You have to be anti racist, which means being pro means actively being pro. People who are not getting the same shape of the stick. Exactly. And understanding it. I mean, I have, you know, because of the, of the industry, you know, I have way more white female colleagues and white male colleagues than I do have off, you know, black and I have a conversation and sometimes it can be uncomfortable for people. But you have to understand that this is my reality. And you know, people often say, oh, I don't realize. Well, you wouldn't because you're not, you're not me. You're not sitting in my shoes, you know, in I mentioned Can Leonface Festival. We're out there and you know, you're walking down La Cosette and you're not seeing a lot of people looking like you. That is my reality. So recognize it. And also men need to be part of a conversation. I mean, we talked about the digital ladies group, but we're having an event which is also, you know, men are going to be involved in because we need everybody at the table to move a dialogue along. If we just get, you know, a group of black women in a room within the industry, then we can only move the dial so much. We need the buy in from everybody else and the recognition from everybody else to kind of change, change it. And it's not just a, it's not just a conversation for the diversity and inclusion officer. It needs to be every step of the organization. I think that's important. And I think that a phrase that people are still misunderstanding sadly is white privilege. People say, I didn't have a privileged background. I grew up with trauma, I grew up with difficulty. The point is that when you're white, the color of your skin is not an added difficulty. It is, it's not a thing. Because I know that, you know, I hang out and have breakfast and drink tea and lots of like really, really fancy places, like sort of like five star hotels and gorgeous places. And I look around and, and it is mostly white people, if not all white people. And I think that we need to be aware of that. That that isn't like as it's meant to be. That's just not okay. Yeah, some people don't feel comfortable in certain environments. You know, again with the industry, the advertising industry is very Middle class. So there's also the class issue and saying, well, how do we attract people from other diverse backgrounds as well, in terms of class, in terms of age, everything. So many kind of different, you know, isms that we need to overcome. I mean, my children are very involved in the theatre, both of them. We go to theatre a lot. And you know, my son now, he's nearly 13, he'll look around, he's like, mum, Mummy, why. Why are women. No black people here? And it, and it's, you know, and even, you know, a show that may be eight or maybe about community, and then it's just like, what the hell? But some people are uncomfortable in terms of putting themselves in a situation where they may be the only one. I've had that my whole, since my school life. So actually I'm quite comfortable in my own skin. I don't pretend to be anything I'm not. I walk into a room, I'm very. Well, I'm a black woman walking into that room. But I get on with it and everybody else has to. Has to get on with it. So, you know, it's about being comfortable as well. And what do you do at. Well, does this ever happen? Do you ever come across blatant racism or is it like with sexism? It's kind of like, it's infuriating because, you know, it's that. But they have plausible deniability because they can say, oh, no, no, I'm saying it just because of this, but you know, that it's not that. For various different subtle reasons, you know. Do you have that? Oh, definitely. I mean, you know, unconscious bias is something that's talked about a lot in our industry and only over the last couple of years, I'd say. And people are starting to recognize that. But it's been existing, you know, I've been in your industry over 20 years. I've come across it many, many a time. There are, there used to be. And there have been a odd little comment that you think, would you say about somebody else? But usually it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not as blatant, but you can feel that there is some difference. Difference. And, and that's unfortunate. But as I say, you know, I don't pretend to be anything that I'm not. I, I, you know, I, when I'm called to speak at events. And last year, actually, I stopped speaking about diversity inclusivity because I didn't want to be called to speak just to have a tick the box of Being a black woman on my panel, speak to me because I know about ad tech, because I know about programmatic, because I know about business. So now I'm, you know, starting to have those conversations again. But, you know, get somebody in for their merit, not just because it ticks your box or makes you, you as a business feel comfortable. Okay, we've solved that because we've got female and we've got someone, you know, from an affinite background. And, and also then we, we have to be careful that we, that we are making sure that the boxes aren't unticked as well. A thing that I do because I get asked to speak all around the world. And the question I've been asking for the last two years is, do you have a woman from a minority speaking already? And if the answer is no, I say get back to me when you have a woman from minority speaking. When, you know, when you've got a black woman, you've got an Asian woman, you've got just a woman who's not, you know, middle class from a lovely background. And white. White is white. Right. And a lot of our panels are still in the industry. They're still, you know, there's manners. It's not even, you know, get white women on the panel when men get, you know, but, but it's still, it still is that case. And sometimes, you know, it may be that that company couldn't find an expert who was. But really, how difficult is it? What does that speak to? The fact that they aren't like in Daily Connection exactly. With people who aren't exactly like them? Exactly. That's. That sort of speaks volumes too. I remember one time I was on a speaking panel, it was kind of a weekend or a three day event, and myself and Marianne Williamson were the only women. And we were both talking about, yeah, we look exactly the same to the point where they got our names wrong on the poster. Like he had this really good poster, this huge big poster. Like they had them all over the place, like sort of 50ft long. It was an enormous venue and they managed to get us switched. That's how alike we were. And it just shows. It's a lack of creativity, it's a lack of willingness. And I think that the more that we can come together and sort of say, well, this isn't okay for any of us, and the more men that can join in that conversation too, the better. Yeah. And women need to put themselves out there. I mean, I know women who are reluctant to speak. It's going back to what we were saying earlier and thinking you have to have, you know, the knowledge of everything. If you're going to be on the panel, just read up about it, just do some research. You don't have to know a hundred percent because most of these other people on the panel, they're blagging it. But put yourself out there. We need to do this more. Yeah, absolutely. And what is it that you are looking in your personal life to making happen between say now and Christmas? What's the dream for the rest of the year? Gosh, wow. Healthy mind, healthy body. I, it's so interesting. You know, I talk to businesses about what they should do and I talk to people about what they should do and it's like, yeah, am I taking my own advice? I need to focus a little bit more on me, which would be, which would be fantastic. And it's, it's really important, you know, listening to, listening to some of the shows that you've been doing in terms of, it's been so interesting. And I just need to focus a little bit more on me because that will help in all areas. And you're just doing such a phenomenal job, Ellie, of lifting everyone up. So please, please do that. Look after you for us. Thank you. So you've been listening to Judy Mae is listening. I'm Judy Mae Murphy and our guest for this last hour has been Ellie Edwards Scott who together with Lisa Manaldo has the advisory collective and also digital leading ladies. So please, please go and check them out and thank you for tuning in and as always, just, just keep writing in and keep letting us know at infoudymay tv, let us know what's important to you. What parts of your life do you want to transform? What parts of your life are going well? What parts of your life could be going even better? And we'll speak to you all next week. Until then, huge hugs. You've got this. You've absolutely got this. Welcome to the women's radio station. Supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? 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