Judymay Is Listening LIVE SHOW – Edible Pleasures

Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life, and I listen, and together we transform everything. Hello and welcome. This is Judy Mae Murphy here on women's radio station the voice of women worldwide. And today we're going to be talking about the relationship that we have between food and sensuality. And I have two world experts in that as my guests here today. And they're absolutely extraordinary. We've got one person come over from Germany and another person, an Irish person from London, and we are going to be talking all about how it is that you can transform your life through maybe thinking about food differently. We tend to sort of put food in two camps. There's the healthy food and the not healthy food. And then we start thinking of it as the healthy is good, the unhealthy is bad. It's a very binary way of thinking about food. And these extraordinary ladies have started to really change women's attitude toward what it is that they eat. I was going to say what it is that they put in their mouth. We're going to have to be really careful today that we just don't end up accidentally being brilliant. All right, so if I can first of all, introduce Lana Citrin. Lana, you are the author of a brilliant book which you're going to tell everyone about. Yes, thank you very much. Judy May. I am the author of Edible Pleasures, which is a textbook of aphrodisiacs. And it takes a look at the cultural and culinary history of aphrodisiacs and our relationship with food and why it is that throughout the ages and since time immemorial, food and sexual desire have been intertwined. There's been a relationship between these, between food and desire in every culture. And do you think that that goes above and beyond. In the old days, the whole point was to get enough food. Do you think it's just simply once people were no longer starving hungry, they felt like getting sexual? It's. Well, it is more to do. It's actually to do with reproduction. It's all linked to reproduction. And food is fuel. Food is regarded as our life essence. And what is really interesting when you look at how one. One's relationship with food is that both sexes use aphrodisiacs for different reasons. But it all comes back to. To the basis that we need to have children, we need to procreate, and how do people do this? And historically, one's lifespan wasn't as long as it is now. One didn't have the longevity. And for a lot of people, maybe 200 years ago, you wouldn't reach the age of 50. So basically, people had only a short time in which they could procreate. And one of the ways of doing this was to gather people together. It's very convivial, it's communal. And that people eat together and spend time together. So was it more to do with the behavioral side of it? To do with, as you say, coming together as community? More to do with that activity rather than the actual, say, chemical component of the food that they were eating? That's very interesting. The chemical component is. Can work. But the scientific studies are still in its infancy about this particular aspect. But of course, you can eat healthily and you can eat certain foods that will be good for your body and good for different aspects of your body. But it is really the whole idea of eating together. It's not just the food that you're ingesting. Although an aphrodisiac is. Is described as a digestible that provokes desire between two people, but it is the whole experience of eating. So it is the aesthetic of the room. It is the chemistry between the two people. It's the presentation of the food. It engages all our senses. So touch, taste, smell, and visually what we see in front of us, these are all components. I like to say eating together in an intimate surrounding, it's foreplay to the main event. So perhaps Martha Stewart has more to do with aphrodisiacs than even she knows. I don't know what you're referring to. Okay. She's this really famous kind of interior decor and cooking person. She's kind of like who went to prison? That's the one. Yes. So there we go. So, Caroline, tell us a little bit about what it is that you do. So you're a food artist, and a lot of us would sort of. Well, I mistakenly thought that that meant that you just set the food up for someone to take a photograph of it. But it's so much more than that. It's actually a whole. Again, a community activity. Yeah, I'm interested in the act of eating as a ritual behind. So I'm a food artist and a food anthropologist, and I really like the idea that the act of eating is more about sustenance. It's about community coming together. And for a long time I've been thinking about the correlation between food and love and food and sex, because especially in our digital world, the only really, really intensely realistic thing we can actually do. And it's a Very intimate way of interacting with our environment is actually putting food into our mouth. It's almost more intimate than having sex because when you put food into your mouth it grabs, grows into cells, it grows into your body so much that you can see if I would have consumed drugs or coffee in my hair follicles. And I think the really interesting thing, if you have sex, it's a very intimate way of course to interact with it. But unless you fall pregnant and you can just hop in the shower afterwards and forget all about it. Unless you are Monica Levinsky. But usually it's not a thing, it's something that. But eating food is something that is different. And I think it's really interesting how this becomes a biography of our lives. So I always been really fascinated by the parallels between eating food and having sex. So it's not just food. I'm interested. Of course, when you think about a food artist, you have beautiful food sculptures. Occasionally I attempt to do those as well. But it's the act of coming together and breaking bread and having this moment. But I think it's really interesting when you talk about food, food and love and food and sex as well. The idea of breaking bread and the idea of company and companion, it is about, it comes from the Latin about the comm with and then the panionis from pannus is bread as well. And forno is oven in Italian, like fornicate. It comes from the Latin because fornax is oven and fornix is brothel. So I think it's really interesting how this is been throughout a long time, always been intertwined. The idea of having a bun in the oven and I think very much within the language but you know, be my companion. Let's break bread together. So how do you feel then about the way that our relationship with food has become a little bit fragmented or for some women extremely fragmented, that it's not seen as this joyous interactive thing, but it's seen as something to be afraid of, something to back away from, something to control. Well, I think we've been sold a really interesting idea, a bit skewed idea by the food industry and by the media as well. The idea that, you know, love, like heart shaped coffee beans, like coffee and socks and like something that's like little chocolates and teddy bears or anything edible that is sweet and red will somehow unleash some sort of really nice warm feeling towards men. I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't get, I don't get a kick out of. I don't get horny or in any way. If I see a heart shaped chocolate bar. And I think it's really interesting to break. It feels really chauvinistic and misogynistic as well. The way that it's patronizing that, you know, I'm a grown woman, I don't want a teddy bear and a heart shaped chocolate. But I think, and I think a lot of men who do that are actually just trying to do their best. They're sort of like, this is what they've been trained women like teddy bears, let's do that. They're just trying to do a good job. So I don't think they're intentionally being patronizing. It's just sort of the way it's a misunderstanding and I think it's a myth that's been paddled. But I think it's really interesting to. And that's what I love about Lana's book as well. To understand our body as well and have, you know, like the way our senses interact. That's why I'm always really interested in the senses and how we can enable and empower our senses in order to understand and actually heighten our experience of our environment and our life. So if we go back to the senses, smell is the most heightened sense we as humans have. It's our most amorous scent. It's all about pheromones. And basically we smell each other out or mates out or potential mates. And this hearkens back to evolutionary biology where women who have a greater sense of taste and smell will seek a mate with the opposite immune proteins to them so that they can beget a much more healthy child. And it's really interesting because that sense and that instinct, smelling instinct, unfortunately, has been diluted so much by all these deodorants we put on and the perfumes we put on. And instead of trusting our instinct and our smelling instinct. And what is really interesting is that you can also smell fear and you can smell if someone is sick. But you can definitely relate hormonally to someone who to smell them. And the smell of testosterone is so wonderful. So do you think that's why people try and mask it? Because they don't want people to smell the sickness and the fear and the. Oh yes, of course, we've told as well the idea of, you know, we have to compile to a certain element of we all have to smell of roses. We all have the smell of flowers. And I think there's so much beautiful individual duality behind our senses. There's this wonderful custom I came across when I was researching the book where courtesans in the 16th century, they would peel apples and they would insert them under their arms, and they would let the apple absorb all their bodily secretions, and then they would give it to their sweetheart as a love token. And that would enslave. Enslave them. That's quite confident about your body. Let's see if that one catches on. But very interesting, what you were saying about sense of smell. In fact, it's the only sense that bypasses this part of the brain called the thalamus, which means that it doesn't have to go through a lot of hoops and a lot of decisions. It's just pure emotion. And we're gonna have fun talking more about that. And what I'd like to do is, I'd like for us to about talk about what are some things that we can do. Maybe stopping a little bit short of putting apples under our armpits, but who knows, could catch on and maybe looking a little bit at what it is that we can do to change our relationship with food in a very practical way, because we're surrounded with it. It's something that's happening all day, every day. And it'll be nice to have a few more options around that and not just think about it in terms of, you know, some women are, you know, have a lot of anxiety around food, and some women just don't think about food at all. So let's. Let's bring it to a new place. Welcome to women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. This is women's radio station. You're listening to Avril Price with kitchen sink spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism. And my guest today is Karen no. 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Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 07-956-37-1483 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com. And welcome back to Judy Mae is listening here on WRS women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. Here in studio today we have Lana and Caroline, who are experts in food and sensuality. And frankly, I feel like I'm just sitting here getting a seminar. I feel like I'm just absorbing all this really, really great information. And you were saying just before the break that we have this innate sense, this innate connection between the self, the desire, life desires and food. Where did that come from? Is that something we have to learn or is that something we've always had? I think our first encounter with food when we enter this world is actually through breastfeeding. It's through the breast and I think maybe it's something that we are trying to recreate throughout life. So we like milky flavors and the sweetness of life. It's something that has been lost. Maybe it's a tragic thing that we're trying to seek that all over again. Well, it's really interesting because when I began writing and researching edible pleasures, I came across this quote from Freud who had said, this relationship, our relationship between food and sensuality all stems back to breastfeeding and that he said when you look at a child fall off the mother's breast, the satiation of their appearance, you know, they look. It's almost like. He thought it was, like, sexual. So that when we look at people who are kissing later in life, it's like almost that they are eating one another. And then what brought me to aphrodisiacs was that I'm obsessed with kisses. You know, this. Judy May, We've had conversations about this, anyway, but there was this other psychologist called Adam Phillips, and he turned that on its head and he said, okay, so when we're eating, maybe everything that we eat is a kiss. That is. It's all linked to emotion. And there's a huge emotional relationship that we have with food. Of course we do. You know, we comfort eat. It is a direct emotional connection with. With sustenance that a human has. And so just taking back this power that's always ours and maybe designing it more, rather than just either succumbing or rejecting food, instead saying, you know, well, let me really choose food and let me really enjoy it. Let me. Because I know Lana. You know, we know each other well. And so there's many a time we've been sitting in a Japanese restaurant. And just watching you eat is just brilliant because you just. Every single mouthful, you just. You're really sitting, savoring it, and you're just really allowing yourself to love it. And so that obviously is a. There's a wonderful quote from this, like, Italian lothario, Gabriel d'. Annancio. I don't know if. You know. Anyway, wonderful writer. He wrote a lot of erotica, actually. But he says if you look. If you give a woman a peach and you look at her and see how she eats that peach, if she nibbles at it and, like, takes tiny bites, forget it. But if she gets it and goes and ravages it and this juice, you know, dribbling. And that's part of it. And he said, she'll be a good lover. But I think we have a lot to learn from this because these days, even. Although so much dating and getting to know each other works through Tinder and, you know, like, it's. Obviously, we're using our phone, but when it comes down to it, most dates still participate and are carefully choreographed around food and physically putting food into your mouth. And most people say about a date, not what he was into, but they would comment how the other person is eating. And I think once you overcome that point, the way he's eating his Table manners. And I think that's how we judge each other because it's a shorthand. So something that subconsciously we know but we should trust our instincts. Yeah. Then that's fascinating because sometimes I know I find it very difficult to eat in front of people. I don't know, but it's so intimate. It really is. It feels almost as intimate and revealing. It's very revealing, the idea of putting something into your mouth. I mean the other day I was sitting on the tube and someone was eating a banana opposite me. It had to look away. Many others would have filmed it, but yes. So what is the thing that we can do if we want to start to introduce this? Not necessarily going out to manipulatively shop for aphrodisiacs, to use them like love charms and seduce somebody. Not to be controlling in any way, but just in order to sort of open up that for ourselves for. And then maybe for somebody else. What could we do if we're just sort of hanging out in the supermarket or going to the local farmer's market? Well, every food basically over the course of time has been designated as an aphrodisiac. So one of the most interesting things. Every food, everything. I bet we could find one exception. Forget it. Well, there's egg from eggs. Eggs is one of the most popular, potent symbols of fertility. So you have. In like in China it's the yin and yang. So you have the white of the egg and then the yolk. And that is in every culture actually the egg is supreme. One of the major. So actually when people think of like buying truffles or caviar or oysters. Oysters. They're the cliches but at some it's really interesting. The most profane everyday food items we would all have in our cupboard. We don't even have to go out into the supermarket. So how do you think that would go over if it's your lover's birthday and you arrive with a whole, with a dozen eggs and you say that's how I feel about you. Well, have you seen Tampopo? No. There's this incredible film called Tampopo. It's quite should come with an X rated warning. X rated warning. Parents in law or your children. Well done, Lara. What's the film about? There is an incredibly highly charged erotic scene in which the egg is broken and the yolk is passed from mouth to mouth between lovers until the yolk actually breaks and it dribbles down. It's one of the most pornographic things I've seen. And I'm from German. That's done a lot. We'll leave that there. Fantastic. So, right, we're buying eggs. Eggs are on everyone's shopping list. Even us vegans, I think. What else have we. I think there's a lot to be said about an understanding about who you are and what obviously how the relationship with the partner is. A lot of aphrodisiacs are there to enhance male performance. So their zinc bakes food, whether it's oysters or eggs. But I think it's just the idea of sensuality as well. I think it's really interesting to really involve all your senses. Something that is actually nice to touch. Put the cutlery away, use your fingers. I think there's something really sexy and nice as well. Go away from the dining table because I think that's really constructed as well. Maybe, you know, go onto the, you know, onto the floor as well. Even underneath the dining table. Underneath the dining table, exactly. Play around with conventions as well. The idea of scent as well, the idea of maybe layering the scent rather than putting thyme into the food, having the smell of thyme, having a thyme candle that layers over it. I think it's really just a real heightened awareness of all your senses, I think will open up towards us. Blindfolding yourself has been used. It's one of the most obvious things. But I think that's really beautiful, like eating blindfolded. That's why we're so obsessed with those restaurants where it's absolutely pitch dark and nothing goes. But I think that's obviously. Then it becomes a gimmick. I think with all of this, the danger is not to make it a gimmick because I think otherwise we're going to steer back into oysters, which is obviously the vulva shaped oyster. I think, you know, like men don't have much imagination when it comes to Afro tcx. But I think it's really nice to. They don't need to. They don't need to. That's already out there. But I think it's really nice to think about the senses in that way. And you were just mentioning that, you know, that a lot of the time aphrodisiacs are seen as just something to enhance male performance. And you know, we had women, women's Viagra, whatever that was called and that came out a couple of years ago. Adiya. Well, the fact that we don't even know what it's called and we're kind of. But it had so many side effects. It wasn't Worth. Actually, I was just researching that because I was researching an article about aphrodisiacs for postmenopausal women and what works and what doesn't work. And I do think actually with aphrodisiacs, it was straight down the line between the genders. So, you know, there are obviously aphrodisiacs for men, but there are also. Women use aphrodisiacs. It's not just about men's. It's all about women's pleasure as well. But I think they have to reclaim the female libido as well. Something that is seen as not something that you should celebrate. The idea it's always seen only in the last 20 years, maybe, and I think maybe Sex and the City was one of the first series which had Kim Cattrall still as the character, as someone who's celebrating her own sexual, you know, heightened libido. But it was almost a comical still. And I think the idea that, you know, I have a diminished libido, I want to enhance all of this is still a bit of a taboo. Yes. And the women in art and sort of singers and actresses, again, it was sort of very much seen as outside of the norm that on the one hand, you had the good women who were wives, and on the other hand, then you had the very good women. Yes, the excellent women who were not wives. Because once you're married and you have children, the idea that you still would like to hide nearly beaters, it becomes. It's still, I think, quite a big. I think a lot of. A lot of women who I coach have that problem after they have kids. They're so identifying as mommy that they. They really do have problems with sort of going. Going back in there. And they, you know, they'll say, well, myself and my husband, we went off. Or myself and my boyfriend went off and had a weekend. And I just, you know, I just. I'm not into that anymore. But really, it's sort of a shift in identity and maybe a shift in how you experience food can help with that shift. Most people physically have to shift their environment. They have to go away from the Mauritian home in order to go away, which is obviously easy, but I think maybe you can, you know, change the lighting or change the scent in your own room in order. You don't have to always have a weekend in the contest. You're going to be seeing eggs differently. I think everything could change. But just back to that point then, about it being seen as part of a male narrative. I Love the fact that you're saying that. No, it, in fact, very much is. Oh, very much. Women were responsible for inspiring dishes and the courtesans, famously, they added to the repertoire of aphrodisiacs. So you had Madame Pompadour, her asparagus tips, you had dishes inspired, like by Anna Pavlova. The Pavlova. But then obviously there was the. That fact that women were also the dish, dish of the day. And I came across this 17th century annual all about the prostitutes in Covent Garden and where they were actually listed as dishes and a menu. Fascinating. Yeah, fascinating. So what I'm hearing is that as long as we can retain control of the narrative and make sure that we are being included in a positive way and not just being included as a function of some else's side. Order a bit on the side. Yeah, well, there you go. It's just right the way through the language, it's very, very telling. And what I love about this is the fact that as women, we just, we have that power in every moment to say, no, hold on a second. This is my world too. This is something that I get to design in a way that works for me and if it's not working, I get to look at it again and to do something different. And as you were saying, it just then it starts to spill out into the rest of your life with where you live, the way that you speak, all these other aspects. So coming up with more right after these. Women's Radio station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. 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Every little will help. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, head of Business development at women's radio station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately zmomewomensradiostation.com. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome back to Judy Mayes Listening here on WRS women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide, where we have been talking about food and everything to do with the sensuality around food. And we actually had some statements coming in last night just rather than questions, just kind of like absolutely heartbreaking statement from, from one beautiful woman who asked, please don't use my name. No, we're all about keeping you safe here on this show. And she says, when my boyfriend says he wants to try an aphrodisiac, I feel that he's saying I'm not attractive or sexy enough. And I think, lovely. The thing to remember about that is that the way that we're made to feel when someone makes a statement toward us that has to be resonating with something that's already inside us. So it's not that the thing that he's doing is making you feel like, oh, because he said that I don't feel that I'm attractive and it's that the thing that he is saying is resonating with something or triggering something that's already happening. And that what you're taking it as this statement that he wants to find a fake way maybe, of making you more attractive because you have this idea that you're just not attractive enough. And what I'd say about that is, as with everything, as with any idea that we have about another person, the first place we need to go is to look at, well, what are we doing all on our own? What are we doing before they even come along? What's happening inside us that they are then just bringing to light. And I imagine that you'll find that when you're being a little bit kinder about yourself, maybe thinking about all the people that you have ever been attracted to who might not be conventionally attractive, maybe thinking about all the times where you have felt attractive, that you can sort of have that shift. And then he can come up with the exact same behavior or the same statement. And you'll find that actually it doesn't bother you at all. And that then creates a space. And within that space, you can then go in and say, well, why might this be a fun thing? Why might this be good? And if you can't find something immediately, then at least you're open to asking him and saying, well, you know what? I used to think it meant this. Where are you coming from? I trust that you're coming at this from a good place. So I want to hear what it is that you think is going on here. Ladies, what would you say to our lovely listener who feels very criticized by the idea of her boyfriend introducing Africa? I think if someone would put that towards me, I would find that an interesting or beautiful invitation to go onto a journey of exploration together. I think it can be seen obviously as negative, but I think it's a nice invitation to try and explore different ways of obviously enhancing both fulfillment. What do you think? I don't know the person, so it's really hard. I love the way you've reacted to the question, and I think that's brilliant. I also completely understand Judy May's point of view. And I do think, cut yourself some slack. You are good enough. You are obviously incredible. Someone loves you and is with you, and it may be that you just, yes, think of it in a different way. That it's just fun and it's a way to go on another journey with your man. Because it's quite daring to express certain wishes as well. So if you think about it from him to maybe open that up. Lovely point that he had to be quite vulnerable to do that. And if he felt shut down, I feel bad discussing it now. It's kind of interesting because. Because we do that, I think unintentionally, a lot of the times we think that we're just protecting ourselves. And the way that it can come across to a man is that we are rejecting him, that we're saying that he's not good enough, that he hasn't done the right thing, he hasn't said the right thing in the right way at the right time, and that we forget that men are very vulnerable to that. But I really liked what you said earlier as well, that men only give out chocolates and teddy bears because they're sold the idea of females really liking this by the media, but they're just trying to do their best. They're not viciously trying to put us down. I think it's really easy to be in that statement that every time a male does anything towards us or ask or something, it is definitely sexually harassing us. And I think there's a danger of putting that out there as well. I think often men just literally, as you've mentioned before, just trying to do their best. Yeah. It's not to read negative into every action of someone else. And introducing that idea of aphrodisiacs. Great. Let's look at which aphrodisiacs will work for me, making sure that it is an equal thing. Because I think a lot of men would presume, I probably would have presumed until we did this show that what works for a man would also work for a woman. That leads us to our next question that we had, our next statement that we had where someone wrote, I don't want to take aphrodisiacs as it seems fake, that if I'm not turned on, then there's a reason for that. And that's from HW in Stockholm. So just wondering about that. Like, is it that could it be seen that an aphrodisiac is kind of like a drug that is masking a problem and that perhaps if things like you having had enough sleep, the relationship working well, if all those things were in place, maybe they wouldn't be a necessity for it? Or is that a little idealistic? I think at the core there's a misunderstanding just how powerful aphrodisiacs are. Although I think we really believe that aphrodisiacs are great, but they're merely enhancers of a certain mood and if you're not wanting something, I don't think it is literally just there to enhance or slightly modulate how we feel. Rather than completely overriding sexual desire. Sexual desire has to always come within itself. So I think it's just the idea of, you know, putting lipstick on. It's not gonna make your lip three times bigger. It's just enhancing a natural thing a little. We do live in hope as women, don't we? Do you remember a few years ago, there was that lip plumping thing? The stingy one was cooling anyway, like we were bee stung. We actually were going through the sensation of being stung by bees in order to look that little bit more attractive, maybe. And probably the pain in our eyes overrided everything that was going on on our lips and things we do. I would love or say that there's one aphrodisiac that is so powerful. Love. Well, not love. There's an aphrodisiac, but it's the medical aphrodisiac, which is Viagra, that for sure works, that medically works, but it's still purely physical. A man still has obviously his own mind to decide whether he would like intercourse with someone else. I think you're putting. Well, the. Maybe the commentator was putting too much onus on aphrodisiacs. It is, as I said before, like foreplay. It's a tease. It's part of the dance. You know, the dance of, you know, the flirt, the seduction. It's all about seduction. That's what it's about. And do you think we often think that it's the man's job to seduce and that if we are doing any of this seducing that we are, you know, somehow ruining it? This is the big narrative that's out there. And this idea that, you know, that we need to. There was a quote that I thought was kind of interesting from Jean Baudrillard, and he said, there's no aphrodisiac like innocence. And I thought, oh, yuck, not so sure about that one. But then we've got. I'm sure I might prefer it to what Henry Kissinger said. He said, power is the great aphrodisiac. And then Andrew Hollerman said, indifference is the great aphrodisiac. So between indifference, power and innocence, I think I'd take eggs over all those. But isn't it kind of interesting that everybody has their idea about what somebody else will find attractive? And it seems to be true in some ways, you know. Yeah. If someone was to, you know, Try say, right, I'm bringing you off to the Bahamas. I'd just be like, that wouldn't work for me. But I know some women, they'd be like, oh, my gosh. Oh, that's so amazing. Oh, wow, I'm in love. Well, it depends who you're with. You know, let's see who's asking you for the best. You know, I just mean the actual, you know. But that same person could get the same result by saying, here, I got you this book that I thought you'd like. Look, they could pick a rose in neighbour's garden and give it to you. And you are into that person. This is true. But just in terms of, you know, that thing, as you say, that enhances it seems to be as individualistic. But it's only a recent narrative as well that the man is wielding all the power and we shouldn't meddle with it. I think throughout centuries, it was actually females who held a lot of power over men through aphrodisiacs and the idea of the foreplay and seduction. And I think all of this was very. An entrapment, was very female. The idea of the honey trap as well, I think it's a really interesting one. So I think it's only in the last 50 years that it's something that kind of male seductress we've got like that seduction had kind of gives you flowers. And after the Bahamas, it's not something. Historically. Alana, what would you say is the best aphrodisiac that you found? Or the most interesting, the most intriguing? Historically, there's so many. Right. But sometimes, like, they can be quite dark. So, I mean, let's go. Let's go there. Do you really want to go? Okay, so I'm going to gross you out now, everybody. Okay, so one of the most disgusting things. Well, is cannibalism, but I'm not going to talk about that. I'm going to talk about blood, which is the quintessential essence of life. And people drink blood and people drink snake's blood. And obviously snake. The snake is highly sexualized animal and symbolic. Yes, exactly. Okay, so they will slit the snake and they'll mix it with whiskey. Apparently it's really popular in Taiwan. But I came across this emperor, Chinese emperor, during the Ming dynasty, and he kept 460 virgins. And he would drink their blood, their monthly blood, as an elixir. Mmm, lovely. Yes. Eggs are looking better and better by the minute. Thanks, Lana. But that also says a lot about the kind of obsession we have with vampires that's become really popular since the sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s. So many more vampire stories that involve women. It was just a man preying on a woman. And now we have so many more female vampires as things culturally. Yeah, absolutely. Which is interesting. It'll be interesting to see what starts coming up next. And do you have a favorite aphrodisiac? I love vodka. I'm a big vodka drinker. I love it. And alcohol is really brilliant. It's one of the best aphrodisiacs and effective aphrodisiacs there are. I'm sure you wouldn't find many to disagree with you. And we're going to find out. Caroline's right after these welcome to Women's Radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. This is Women's Radio Station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism and my guest today is Karen no. Welcome to future Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. I listen to Women's Radio Station, Women's Radio Station. We want to hear from you women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Sue Openshaw, owner of Ferme de Ciel, the luxury ski chalet in San Jua in the Grand Massif, France. We are open for skiing from mid December to end of April and we're only one hour from Geneva, so perfect for short breaks or longer holidays. Single or multiple bookings. Contact us on femdisiel.com or 077-331-0002 0 hi, my name is Julia Sturland. I'm a figurative painter in oil and watercolor. Please Visit my website juliasturland.com J U L I A S T E R L A N D or phone or text 079-8656-3552 hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the executive director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@media mattersforwomen.org Women's radio station is a not for profit community interest companies. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, head of business development at women's radio station Radio. Advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, Please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately zmomewomensradiostation.com. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen. And together we transform how everything you are listening live here at wrs. And we have in the studio Caroline and Lana, who are talking about all things seduction, seductive, and food and the wonderful relationship between pretty much anything that you put in your mouth and everything that you feel. And we found out right before the break that Lana's highly sophisticated aphrodisiac of choice is vodka. And Caroline, how about you? I obviously love vodka as well, but my favorite would be, would have to be oysters. But it's actually not just oysters itself, but eating oysters together and eating oysters together with my husband. Because something over the decades we've known each other makes me really old. Eating oysters together became a ritual and we managed to almost track oysters down wherever we are and sit opposite never often leads to something else other than just, you know, eating loads. But it's just the idea that it's the ritual of sitting opposite and eating them and slurping them. And I just really love this moment. But I think it's often when we think of aphrodisiacs, it's not just the actual food item and the nutrients inside, but it's the rituals surrounding and how we eat them and when we eat them. So some people have, I don't know, spaghetti like vongola, which they really always eat in Italy when they're there. And it reminds them and they recreate that moment. And it's that sensory memory, sensory memory. And I think food actually often all these, how aphrodisiacs works because they take us back to the moment we fell in love. And it's almost like punctuation in our life, I think as well. Like the idea that you can kind of track back in your own biography or your own memory within. That's why we have it we have that with friends as well. Sometimes the idea of, okay, I always eat something with a person I love, and we always go to the same place in Chinatown and schleurch the same dumplings. It's not something, but it's almost. You reconnect over that moment of it. And I think it's really deeply sensual. And the idea of. Especially when it's something that you use your hands with, I think as soon as we put the cutlery away. And often it is drinking or eating something that comes with its own vessel. And I think often they're uncooked as well. Yes. Well, actually, there's two things that you said there that were really interesting. One was the sensory. Smell is a sensory. It provokes a sensory memory. So you have, like, Proust's very famous book, A la recherche de temps perdu, where he's dipping his madeleine into the linden tea and immediately a whole. This evokes a whole world for him and a huge, big novel for us to read. But claim to have memories, but it's involuntary memory. It's not something that he actively seeks to remember. He can't help it. He can't help it. He's overwhelmed in that moment. And we have the smell of home or the smell of the dish that your mother used to make, or, you know, some people say basic frying. Yeah, that's what you really want is to be overwhelmed by it, not forcing it, to have it sort of. Yeah. Take you over. Very evocative. But I think you have to almost look around in your own biography to do this. So I think oysters might not work for. For some, but I think these are things we code and. Yeah, we set a code of instructions for our own brain. And I think we unlock those the moment we eat them. And I think if you understand your own biography and how you interact with, whether it's friendship or love affairs or actually marriages as well, I think it's really interesting to take them to new directions. And I think it's okay not to always recreate a certain moment, but grow together and try new things out. So to go back to the earlier comment, I think it is a really nice invitation to go onto new journeys together rather than having a moment frozen in time when you were in your twenties, because otherwise sexuality and aphrodisiacs are always connecting to the younger version of yourself. But to add on, to keep it alive, keep it alive. It's a living thing. And to push the boundaries of your relationship, I guess. Yes. Again, looking for New ways to keep things alive, to keep things vibrant and. And I suppose sensual and I think allowing for mistakes as well. I think we all had a moment when we tried to dress up, maybe with a trench coat, with nothing but our underwear, and had a terrible fail. And I think one of my favorite quotes is that planner. Like. No, that's just me. Then. Okay, never mind. But there's a really fantastic Woody Allen quote where he just said, sex is like having dinner. Sometimes we just laugh about the dishes. Sometimes, you know, we take it really serious. And sometimes we have to do the washing up. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I had a massive fail the other week. I made dumplings and they just went straight in the bin, actually. But that's a moment as well. That moment of, okay, I'm gonna have this beautiful thing. I'm gonna be this domestic goddess, and everything's gonna be perfect. But sometimes in that laughter as well, we reconnect as well. And I think. And sometimes that can be even sexier when it exactly falls apart. Because you're very real in that moment. Exactly. Is that experimentation is something that doesn't have to compile to a certain standard which we have to live out. And obviously recreating of movies, you know, so not Nine and a Half Weeks lifestyle. Yeah. A lot of people would see aphrodisiacs, perhaps as, oh, gosh, now this is another thing I have to do now. I've got to take care of that side of it. We just take the pressure off seeing it as something that serves you rather than something that you have to, you know, and getting to know your body and your partner as well in a different way, in a fun way. And sometimes. Yeah. Embrace failure with it as well. Yeah. It should be very light. I mean, it's like. It's not a. You know, it's not a doctrine, but one has to observe. But it is interesting that often it's. It's raw food that is the aphrodisiac. The more cooked something is. You would never serve so much. You wouldn't serve a burnt offering. Yeah. You know, or like something overcooked. So something like a whole meat lasagna has never been seen at. So burnt lasagna and burnt toast. We found the things that are not aphrodisiacs. But it might be for some. I mean, maybe there's some listeners out there who are really turned on by that, that might write. I think that's the beauty of it, that maybe the burnt flavor might do something. I think what's interesting as well Is the fact that if you've been single for a long while, then you can end up accidentally just kind of like locking that side of yourself outside the room and just having it as a no go area, thinking, well, eventually if I end up dating someone again or end up married again, then I will reintroduce that. But this is a way of way for people no matter where you're at. Maybe you're in a relationship and you're not happy, maybe you have been single for a long time and you can then introduce that sensuality and not feel like you're missing out so completely. Yeah, totally. I mean, if you are single, there's nothing, you know, why not just treat yourself? I mean, like a great big custard croissant or something, I don't know, whatever sounds like a Saturday night. But treat yourself, treat yourself, of course. And because that is your relationship with food yourself. It doesn't matter that there's, you know, obviously it's nice or have friends around or whatever, but it's. Don't deny yourself. Don't wait until you're in that relationship in order to. Don't be missing the great person and the great food. You can have the great food already and don't punish yourself for being on your own. But so much about eating food is down to punishment because we're so made hyper aware about the nutrients and food. But I think the actual eat and the ritual of eating and how we eat it, there should be more emphasis on this. It's like the idea is like, you know, breaking a chicken into bones and eating right with your hands. There's something really sexy about it and licking your fingers rather than just always worrying about how much fat content there is. And I think females are being told as well. I think at the moment, every time, like time you look in a magazine, it's like the idea of, you know, like saturated fat, it's good for you, it's bad for you. And I think we should trust our instincts. I think it's what you said earlier, there's something really like intrinsic. We have those instincts and our senses are fabulously coded of unlocking them. I think we should just put all those fantastic magazines away and let's just see what gets us going. Another thing that you said that I wanted to pick up on was about that we eat food and the food that is more raw and we eat food that's still alive. Like oysters are live. And it's really interesting when you think, oh my God, we're eating a Live creature. Right. Like, ethically, that's quite interesting. But then when you go on to the kind of more extreme side of aphrodisiacs, there are really some gruesome and disgusting aphrodisiacs out there that people use to provoke their desire. The team in the studio here is all smiling away. They're like, good, we're going for the gross stuff again. Let's hear it, Lana. Okay, you ready for this? Well, okay. If you look at foie gras, the way that's manufactured is very cruel. It's incredibly cruel. And, like, for the animal. And then you have, like, the rhino, the horns. That animal has been kind of hunted into near extinction. See, I would say for most conscious people, the fact of the cruelty would just kill anyone idea of sexuality. It would just. But I can understand that pain and pleasure go hand in hand. But it's not us having the pain. It's the animal having the pain. Yes, I know. Hey, I'm not advocating it. I'm just saying that what is very interesting is how we have a perverse side and that there are people who really love to push the boat out with extreme aphrodisiacs. So you can have. We're entering fetishism. Yes. Like, it's like fetishism. Exactly. And, you know, so one of the most disgusting, actually, that I came across, which was horrible, which is in China, and it's on YouTube if anyone wants to look at it. It's disgusting, but it's a fish that they have only half fried, and the chef has kept the top half of it alive, fried the bottom half. And there's this video of diners eating it, and it's really grotesque. And then the other way we provoke our senses and push again at those boundaries of acceptability is we poison ourselves. There's lots of poisons that people use to become more virile or increase your libido. And so you have the fugu fish in Japan. 300 people die, apparently, a year by being poisoned by this fish. But it's the edible Russian roulette, that kind of continuous. Like maybe something to you. But that's our senses and our sense of existence. The idea that it's like you feel more alive when you're looking. Of course, you're pushing yourself. Gigi, May I want to know what your top act is? You know what? We're just out of time. However, I would say that mine is probably, rather than a particular food item, it's actually just being fed. Just if someone was to even just playfully, just kind of, rather than just handing me a dish of olives or something, just take one and feed me directly. That would be it. But anyway, that's unfortunately all we have time for today. I'm going to keep these two ladies around, talking as much as I can, finding out as much more as I can about aphrodisiacs. You have an amazing week. We love you here at Women's Radio Station, with or without aphrodisiacs. And we will see you all very, very soon on Judy May's Listening Live every Monday at 12 o'. Clock. 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