Judymay Is Listening LIVE SHOW – Fighting Spirit

Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome to Judy Mae is Listening. This is Judy Mae Murphy, and here in the studio on women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. We have incredible guests today. In fact, today's show was built around these two guests. These women who, you know, I just, from the moment I was aware of them, I knew that I needed to not just know them myself, but I needed to introduce them to everybody. So in my mission to introduce them to everybody, we're starting with you, listener, and knowing that you're going to get some incredible information today. And not only that, but you're going to be inspired to take things to the next level. Because tonight we are talking all about being a badass woman in the world today. And it doesn't matter how you identify. If you identify as being more gentle, if you identify as someone who's maybe more anxious, perhaps you identify as someone who is lost and doesn't quite know who they are. That's all. Okay. You get to absolutely transform yourself. You get to decide who it is that you want to be in this world, no matter who you've been for the longest time, and you get to keep the best bits of who you've been and then just change the rest. So we're going to get going on that. And the interesting thing today was that usually when we get certain questions in and certain concerns or certain comments, they are quite different. And I have to sort through and say, right, which one's going to really serve the tribe and which one is it? That is going to be something that everybody can relate to. Fascinating. This time when I put the call out on various different platforms, the same comment came back from pretty much everyone. So we're not going to pick out a particular name and location in the world as we normally do for our this is what we're listening to with you portion of the show. What we're going to do is we're going to just state what it is that's on everybody's mind, and that is that people are feeling that the inside them isn't matching the outside, that they feel that inside them, that they have more, they can do more, they can be more badass, they can really take on the world. And then as soon as they start to do that, these invisible things get in the way. So the kind of phrases that were coming up from you guys were things like invisible barrier or I just don't know why or I would like to be more like this. And that's what we're going to be unpicking today. We're going to be looking at what is it possible to be? How can you redefine yourself? How can you take it to the next level when it comes to being who you want to be in this lifetime? Because, let's face it, you know, one day we're all going to be not here. And I don't mean that in a gruesome way. I mean that in a celebratory way, that let's really make the most of it every single day while we can. I love what Marcus Aurelius said about, you know, seeing each new day as a new life and that you can change it completely. Who do you want to be when you wake up this morning? Is it that you want to be someone who is more badass, Someone who asks for what they want? Many of you have shared with me that you feel that you can't ask for things because you were trained to be sort of needless and wantless, that it was seen that your value somehow in your family unit, in your community, was that you were the nice girl, that you were sort of the dutiful daughter. And some of you then rebelled against that and you felt that your role was to play just complete rebel all the time. And are those our only two choices? Is it that we have to be either nice or awful? And the great thing is that we're starting to understand that as women, we don't have to have that just binary way of thinking about who we are. But in fact, what we can do is we can take elements that serve us in that moment and bring those forth, like having the full toolkit rather than just a hammer and a feather. So today we are joined in studio by Sira and Idil. Sira is a DJ and a musician and an artist and she's originally from Sweden and now living here in London. And Idil Sakhan, you might know the name already, she's a very well known photographer and photographic artist and filmmaker. And these two women are on my radar because I just love how they show up. They really seem to me, at least we'll find out if they read that way to themselves. But they seem to me to be really leading with what it is that's important to them. And I'm really excited to sort of delve deep and see what is it that's led them to live in that way. What are the great results they get from being like that. And what maybe are some of the challenges that they face on an ongoing basis, and how are they handling those? So let's just start with Sarah. Sarah, I believe, is Swedish for sister. Is that right? Hi. Yes, it is. Yeah, that's what my brothers call me. So it seemed natural. Oh, that's cute. Adopt that name. And what was the dog called? Dog. And the cat called Cat. I love it. So tell us a little bit about yourself. What is it that you really enjoy doing when you're up there on stage or when you're in studio creating? So there are. I do a few things, and each of these things I really enjoy. So I really love, you know, sitting down in the studio and just creating something that wasn't there before. You know, I think that's like one of the most powerful things you can ever do, you know, to create a piece of music, a piece of work, a piece of art that didn't exist before and you just built it over time entirely from your ideas and from what was happening inside of you. I think that is really powerful. So I really enjoyed doing that. But I love being in front of people as well. And I think that's, you know, I've always played gigs with one band or the other, and I play live shows with my. As myself, Sarah. And I just really love that moment when you're on a stage in front of people, you can't hide, you know, only this moment counts. I just love the thrill of that. And then I think in the same token, DJing seemed quite natural to take on this world because, you know, when I'm not on stage performing, I still really feel that need for that thrill. So being able to just start DJing in front of people, you know, kind of gives me a little bit of that as well. And it's still a performance and, you know, you've got control of the room, and I just really love that responsibility and, you know, how much you have to just stay focused and can't think about anything else at that time. So these are. These are the things that I'm into. And have you ever felt at any point, or do you still feel now a sense of what is it that people are thinking? What is it that I'm going to be permitted to do? Am I going to receive some kind of pushback if I go in this place that I'd like to go to? Do you know what I still really do? It's very strange. I played a show last week with my band, and I really felt like the audience were particularly Distracted that night. I don't know if it's got something to do with everyone's current lack of the ability to focus and how our attention spans are going down, but I just found it really hard to just kind of like get into it. And yeah, the only thing that you can think at that time is, am I doing something wrong? Are they hating me? Like, what is going on? So you can't stop that thinking. But at the same time, if you give into that thought and you stop doing what you're supposed to be doing, then you're kind of. That defeats the purpose. And I love that what you just said there, that if you give in to that thought. Because sometimes we forget, don't we, that, you know, these thoughts are things that we've maybe unconsciously chosen. They seem to have just come up and that we can in that moment just take that space and choose something different that we don't have to, as you say, give in to that thought, give in to that emotion just because it's shown up. Exactly. And you know, we can't always get the attention or the reaction that we want all the time. But at the same time, you know, if you give in to every time you don't feel 100% about what you just did, then you know, you progressively gonna start feeling less and less confident or less up for even doing this. So it's just a matter of, you know, having that conviction that, no, this is what I'm supposed to be doing, this is where I'm supposed to be. You know, these are just thoughts. And do you feel that it's harder for women to do that, or do you think that these days we have just as good a chance of spiraling upwards in that way and progressing forward? I think to an extent, I think perhaps women are judged a little bit more, for instance, in terms of their appearance. Not to say that men aren't. But I think there's an extra layer to it, I think. You know, I mean, we all are self conscious and we all have anxieties and stuff. So I think it depends on what kind of person you are. If, you know, if you are an anxious or, you know, lacking confidence in some areas, then, you know, of course you're gonna, you're gonna feel it's hard to keep doing what you want to be doing. But you know, I. Something that I keep thinking about at the moment is that a lot of women perhaps feel not very confident about, you know, trying to make it at a certain point in their life. So say, you know, Perhaps when they are in their late 20s or 30s or something, they feel like, oh, no, maybe I'm a bit too old for this. And I think that's maybe not something that goes through men's minds. Maybe when they hit 85. Yeah, exactly. Fantastic. And we're going to be meeting Idil Sookan. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly right after the break. But let's have a little look at what is it that we can start to do as women to maybe support each other in, you know, whenever those, those feelings do come up or that sort of, that pushback and that criticism. How is it that we can make better choices around that? And Sarah, you know, what is it that you would do specifically whenever you feel that you're being judged for how it is that you look? Do you then say, right, I'm going to play that game, or do you then decide that, no, I'll tap out. I actually don't care. I actually don't care what people think about my appearance. You know, I mean, people can't see it right now, but I'm not wearing any bit of makeup. Like, I just don't do that. So I think if you've got a problem with the way I look, then I don't need to engage with you. And do you feel, though, that that might be stopping you from getting some of the attention that you need, or do you think that. No, I think I can turn it into a strength. And, you know, if I, if I'm meant to be getting attention for the way I look, I would much rather be getting attention for my skill and my talent rather than my looks, you know, so it's a choice that I'm making. Consciously brilliant. And I love that. I love the way you are making so many conscious choices. So you've been listening to me, Julie Mae Murphy and Sarah. And coming up right after this, we have Idle Sukan. Welcome to women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. This is women's radio station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism. And my guest today is Karen no. Welcome to future classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. I listen to women's radio station. Women's radio station. We want to hear from you women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Sue Openshaw, owner of Ferme de Ciel, the luxury ski chalet in Samoa in the Grand Massif, France. We are open for skiing from mid December to end of April and we're only one hour from Geneva, so perfect for short breaks or longer holidays. Single or multiple bookings. Contact us on femdisiel.com or 077-331-0002 0. Hi, I'm Farah Brown, founder of Femnesty. Femnisty is a platform dedicated to women all around the world. Through Femnisty you can connect with like minded women, share any positive or challenging issues you may be facing, either work related or personal. Together we can all learn from each other and be stronger. So sign up today@feministy.com or download our app femnisty. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@media mattersforwomen.org Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand Advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, Head of Business Development at Women's radio station Radio Advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com. Welcome back to Judy. Mae is listening. This is Judy Mae Murphy. You are listening to us on WRS women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. And today we are discussing being a badass woman. What does it entail? What are the things that might hold you back? How can you think about yourself differently? How can you do things differently? And you've before the break we're listening to Sarah. We're going live by the way, so hopefully you are joining us live. Maybe you're listening to a playback, but if you'd like to join us live every single Monday at 12 noon UK we are broadcasting from the centre of London from London's Covent Garden area and going worldwide to wherever you are. Get in touch, Let us know where you are, let us know what's going on with you. This is all about what it is that you need to transform and progress and make your life as awesome as it can be. Even more awesome than it is already. So I'd love you to meet Idil Sookan. I was so ready to get that perfectly right and then I fell over it a little bit. So, Idil, I have known you from Twitter for a very, very long time. It's the first time we've met in person and it's just, it's surreal and awesome and brilliant and amazing. You are best known, perhaps I would say, for your photography, for your portraits, and also for your filmmaking. How is it that you would describe yourself? What is it that you identify as an artist? Oh, gosh, well, even the word artist is impossible to say out loud like that. I mean, it took me years to even say that I was a photographer, even though I was taking pictures every day because you kind of, you self define and that's absolutely terrifying. So goodness knows how I define myself. I just, you know, I let other people say amazing things about me. I just, I just shut up and listen to all the compliments they just throw at me and that makes me feel better. What you just said there reminds me of something that John O' Connor said in the 60s. He said, what if I, you know, if I, if I show you who I am and that's all I've got. What if it's not enough? That idea. What if it's not enough? Right. Well, that is what I scream at myself every day in the mirror. And that, that seems to help. It seems to help. In what way? What way does that help you? Because for some people that would close you down, send you back, duvet over the head. Not doing today, I'll see how Tuesday pans out. So how does that work for you? How does waking up every morning, how does the idea of saying to yourself, giving yourself some tough love, oh, there's no. Oh gosh, there's no love involved, I think at all. I think crying all the time and screaming at yourself is definitely some advice I can give all the women out there listening today, I think that really helps you really define yourself as a person. That's certainly what I do every morning and every night. And during the day you take your tough straight. You don't even, you don't mix it with the love at all. Yeah, I mean, again, yeah, it's very, you know, the People that you know the most. Your. Your best friends and your parents, probably your parents most of all, you can absolutely take them apart because you know all their neurosis, you know all the terrible things they've done, you know, all the skeletons in the cupboard, you. You know, all their hypocrisies and their idiocies, and you can destroy them while other people can't. Other people say, oh, well, your mother is perfect. Hey, mom, if you're listening, my God, you are perfect. But, you know, other people don't know that she watches a lot of Cary Grant movies late into the night by herself while her husband is asleep, so. But I know. I know all the skeletons, so I can take her apart. And there's a way of flipping that around and portraying her in the worst possible way and also the best possible way, and also all of my bestest friends. But I tell you who I know the best. I know me the best. So I can take myself apart the best. So, yeah, I know. I know all my skeletons, and I know all the terrible things that I've done. So. God, why would I even like my own company? That's really. That's really interesting because you found a way, obviously, to transform that and transmute that into these incredible accomplishments. Yes. Because there are some people who have those kind of feelings, and then they just sort of sit there and they, you know, self medicate with breakfast tv, and then that becomes afternoon tv, which becomes evening tv. But you have just done these, and I'm not gonna let you be that tough on yourself. You can do that in your own time. But I'm gonna just really celebrate what is super awesome. That's why I'm here. Some people compliment me, you know, I mean, your portraits, your photography, just extraordinary. Just on another level entirely. What are your favorite pieces that you've created? Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, first of all, it's. It's great to project all your neuroses into commissioned briefs. That's definitely. Yeah. If you're gonna be crazy, get paid for it, right? Yeah. I mean, first of all, I try, obviously, to keep that very apart. Anybody who's commissioning me. Yeah. You mustn't put it into commissioned works of art. You mustn't put any of yourself. I think a huge. If there are people, a lot of people text or DM me saying they want to do the job that I'm doing because it's so creative. And I think that there is a very. A tiny slither in the arts industry which looks very creative and is not creative at all. And it's heartbreaking for some people to realize, especially people who have commissioned me, who believe us to be making creative work, but we are. We're crowbarring as much creativity into it as possible. But when you are commissioned to do something, there is a job to do, and you can't put yourself in there. You can't allow all of your regrets and commiserations and neurotic behavior anywhere near that photo, because that photo is not for you. That piece of art is not for you. It's for someone else. It's to realize somebody else's dream. And so I try to keep that very, very distant. And, in fact, I think, you know, maybe this is why I wake up screaming every morning, because I don't have an outlet necessarily for me to put any of this in. Well, also, I stopped boxing for a while. Now I'm boxing again. So I think. I think that's calmed everything down a bit. And have you always had this really great kind of push energy? You have sort of like a warrior style energy about you? Have you always had that? Or is that something that you had to develop at some stage? Well, I come from a long line of Ottoman soldiers, so. Sure, sure, of course. I mean, yes, that's how everybody sees me, as some, like, great warrior. Amazing. Yeah. If you showed up with a saber in your hand, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. I have shown up with a saber in my hand. For people who are only listening to this on the radio. I've come in riding a beautiful white stallion, and around my neck are the eyeballs of my enemies. You see, this is what I need. I need more of that. I need more of that because I tend to default to polite. And I imagine that, you know, if I had. If I had the eyeballs of my enemies around my neck, that I wouldn't feel quite so compelled to be polite. Cyril, what do you feel about that? About politeness? About politeness and about, like, just how we. How it is that we show up and how we use our different angers and frustrations and either transform them into art or use them to progress us. I'm sorry to interject just before you answer that what has happened is that the opposite of politeness has become decorating yourself in the eyeballs of your enemies. I just want to make clear that's how you know you're not doing. Nice girl. We've figured out a binary here, which is great. Which is great. I actually think turning up to, like, a DJ set as a female DJ with a bunch of enemies eyeballs would really make any creepy guys just stay away, which is great. And that would have your audience. I'm gonna start doing that. Yes. So thanks for that advice. I never thought to do that before, but now no one ever will ever come up to me and ask if I need any help DJing. You know, I'm really. Does that happen? Does that happen? Like, do they need, like, do they offer to, you know, show you around the. See, I didn't know what it was called. I have guys coming up to me when I'm DJing and being like, do you need any help? And I'm like, maybe the answer is yes, please go make me a sandwich. Could probably be the best response. Yeah. Or yes, please get off my stage. Yeah, it happens all the time. That's very, very interesting. And what do you think are other ways that you have learned to kind of just stand strong and sort of say, no, you need to step back? Well, it's just that I find something that I've learned over time is if I actually make myself physically big, if I stand up straight and I look them in the eye, you know, anyone who's trying to belittle me or make me feel like I don't know what I'm doing, if I just physically make myself feel strong, it really helps them to also see that, you know, I don't really need any help because I know what I'm doing. And Adil, do you find that same thing when you're boxing? Like, do you find that? Because I know boxing, going to the gym, having any kind of technology around me, a camera around my neck, every, every single time I put a weight, I don't know, like even a 15 kilogram barbell plate back on the stand, and a guy came behind me and said, that's too heavy for you. Took it off the stand and put it back on the stand. Now, remember, I'd already put the weight on the stand, and by the way, I had already been lifting at 85k, which is not very big, to be honest. But Barbel, that he'd been watching me do so, what was going through his mind? And also, I've had all manner of famous male celebrities tell me that they also are really into photography and then proceed to tell me about my own profession at me while I'm trying to do it, which is really fun. And that's something. And Sarah's sitting there nodding and smiling away, and I'm relating at a million miles an hour. So I have a feeling that that's where we're going to be going right after this break. Here on Judy May is listening. You're listening on wrs. Women's radio station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. We aim to show the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and a platform for your voice. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. 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Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand. Advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, head of Business Development at Women's Radio station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately, zmomensradiostation.com. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. This is Judy Mae Murphy and you are listening to women's radio station wrs, the voice of women worldwide, broadcasting here from our studio in Covent Garden, London, speaking to women all around the world. And today we have been listening to what you've been saying about feeling like you're not being badass enough, feeling like you are being dutiful, that you're waiting for permission, that you're not using your anger, that you're kind of just defaulting to nice girl. And I know, I was just saying right before we came back that just from hanging out with these two incredible women, I know I'm going to be way more badass this week. Watch out. Seriously, if you're around London, I'm in London all this week. And if you decide that you're going to stop me from doing what I want to do, I feel sorry for you, frankly. So we were just talking before the break about how very often men in particular can stop us from, you know, just demonstrating that maybe they feel a little bit threatened. And I know in my life it hasn't just been men, it's been a lot of people who've had a very definite idea about who I am. So a definite idea about me being academic, a definite idea about me being helpful. And then as soon as I decide to not be helpful, as soon as I decide I'm not going to cater for every family occasion, like literally, I found a photograph over the weekend of a meal that I'd made for my parents 30th wedding anniversary and it was phenomenal. Honestly, the Ritz would be proud to have me. And it was just too much. I remember it taking me five full days to put plan menus, to shop, to chop things to prepare, to cook, to lay it out. Five full days. And as soon as I withdrew that service from my family, it didn't go down very well. And very often as women, you know, we are seen as serving a particular function, either like the really good listener or the crazy one or the rebel. And it can take a lot sometimes to redefine yourself. When there's safety in being thought of in a certain way, there's safety in a particular personal identity. And when we over identify with that person, it can often keep us from being who it is that we could be. And for many women, this is what I'm hearing all you listeners Saying is that what you find is that you are over identifying with nice, with polite, that you will get sad rather than angry, that you really won't rage. I mean, this is one thing I'm just loving about Italy, that she's kind of. She's pretty much in touch with her rage, and in a way that she's able to really transform it. And what I really love about Sarah is the fact that she just is just doing it on her own terms. She's just kind of like, no, this is my life. I'm doing this. Thank you. So, ladies, have you always been this way or were there defining times where you're like, actually, I've stepped up now. I've stepped into my badassness. I've stepped into my strength. I was definitely not. I mean, I don't really see myself as badass, but I don't think I. You know, I don't think I wake up in the morning, I'm like, am I being badass today? I'm just, you know, I'm just trying to do what I need to do, basically. But, yeah, I think I've. I grew up as quite a good girl, you know. But one definitive moment for me was when I moved to London to come to university. I'm originally Polish, so in, like, Polish families, you know, you've got to go to uni, you've got to get education, you know, you have to then have a good job. Even though we lived in Sweden, it's still kind of the same. And I went to, like, a really nerdy school. So there was, you know, that is pretty much what you're supposed to do, like, finish school, become a politician, become awesome at that. And I just never got on with that. So I came to London to go to uni, and I did journalism because I thought, oh, that's, you know, you get to report about important things in the world, blah, blah. And it just really. I was not suited for that at all because I don't really. I care more about things that are more internal, you know? Anyways, the most scary thing that I could do was to just quit and then tell my parents about it and be like, well, but I'm staying here and I'm just gonna work things out on my own. Yeah, I think it was big shock for everybody. But also then I really felt like I've only got myself to count on now because, you know, basically, I've got nothing. I've got no university, got no money, no education. So I have to, you know, really step up and work for myself and stand up for myself. So doing that has really, like, just toughened me up. And since then, it was like a point of no return, really, you know, so you just have to keep going and keep pushing because otherwise you made your choices in vain. Absolutely. And the hilarious thing I find is that you don't see yourself as badass because you and I met at bafta and. And immediately I just thought, wow, this woman is just an absolute powerhouse. And you can see it even in your expression. But also, you have the most phenomenal tattoos. Like these. Really. Sarah has these incredible tattoos that you've chosen. I mean, it takes some badassness to commit to that and say, yes, a petite blonde woman, and I'm going to. I'm going to put this on my arm. And that's pretty phenomenal. I wish that the listeners could see me blushing profoundly right now. Thank you. But I'm all about that. I'm all about committing to what you've decided and just sticking to that, you know, And I guess, like, you know, getting tattoos and how tattoos, for me, I always. When I feel like I'm kind of like, breaching, like, a stepping stone in my life or there's like a big moment that's happening, or I just need to psych myself up to something, I get a new one. And for me, it's like, you know, kind of like confirming that, yes, I'm committing to this particular thing. And it just keeps you going, oh, brilliant. Brilliant. And Adele, did you have a similar time in your life or similar times in your life where you said, right, I'm doing this now. And that shows me, and I know that in the last year you got your own studio and that you've, you know, had different hats that you've worn throughout your life. But was there times you remember saying, okay, now I'm really going for it. Now I'm really being who I want to be? No, goodness, of course not. I think there's only tumbling without direction into the fates. Like, I cannot. I cannot relate to anyone who's ever made any decision ever. I just don't understand it. There's, you know, do men wake up with a badass ometer in their bedroom that they're like, oh, yeah, well, a few more loud decision makings in the meeting room today. And on a pr. I think they just don't. They don't have to because, well, I don't think women have to either. I think. I think the idea of who we are is kind of. That's up to other people to decide. Other people sort of create narratives about you or sort of join dots that you didn't even know you were making at the time because you were just sort of, you know, running. You're just. You're just running. You're just trying to get through to the next day. That's how I've always felt. And so if you're able to sort of elbow your way through something, which is kind of nice, then all what you said, Sarah, is really interesting. Well, there is kind of work. You just do the work. You just do the work. You sit there and you just do the work. And if you do the work to, you know, you do your very best work. That's all you can do. You have been, you know, you're crying on your Wacom tablet and sort of matting it down with your glasses felt cloth and you haven't eaten and it's like 5pm and you order something terrible from Deliveroo. But at 3am you're still there and you're still making work and you deliver it. And actually, you know, it's not that bad. That's all you can do, any of us can do. You know, if I just play devil's advocate here, I think that when you do that unconsciously that you sort of say, you know, do. I thought it was brilliant what you said, you know, do men wake up with a badass ometer? I think, though, for a lot of women, they don't actually do the work. They don't get to the point of doing the work that they want to do simply because there is this sort of just big invisible boulder inside and that they do need to define in a certain way. They do need to actually consciously say, I do need to be more badass. I do need to, you know, make a decision that the first thing out of my mouth isn't going to be the thing to calm the room down and make everyone feel okay, but the first thing out of my mouth is going to be the thing that I need. Right? I guess maybe. I think that that's maybe the wrong causality, I think because that causality suggests that what is important is how you come across. It's not just how you live rather than. Because for me, the idea. But I think we're kind of speaking to the same answer. Yeah, we're agreeing because really this is the problem most women have. It's they're being too polite, too nice and not doing the work and not able to just kind of tumble through and get through, as you say. The messiness of it simply because they're stuck in this place of, what if I'm kicked out of the tribe for not being lovely? Do you know what? I think that kind of also relates to what you said about the guy with the plate, like, lifting it up for you. Being like, no, that's too heavy for you. I think a lot of little girls and girls grow up with, like, people telling them, you know, this is too heavy for you. Don't do that. It's not the right thing for you to be doing. And so you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay, you carried this shopping for me or yeah, yeah, you lift this plate for me or whatever. And I, you know, I don't think girls are being brought up in an equal way. And I think that's the beginning of the problem. Yeah, there's definitely the issue that. The hugest issue is that the paradigm suggests that we can't do this and we can't do that. And that's basically what I mean is if you just have faith in the work that you're doing, then people can tell you loudly about what plate you can pick up and tell you loudly about what lens they think is best, but you are the one doing the work in spite of it, then that's the way you elbow out your position in life. You just have faith in the work. You just have faith in continuing, and you have faith in waking up the next morning and surviving. That's what I've always done. And that's all that we. That's all we need to do is just show up and just keep going, do our thing and just keep going. Fantastic. We're gonna have a little bit more after this here on Judy Mae is listening on wrs, the voice of women worldwide. Welcome to women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. This is women's radio station. You're listening to Avril Price with kitchen sink spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism. And my guest today is Karen Noel. Welcome to future classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. I listen to women's radio station, Women's radio station. We want to hear from you women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Sue Openshaw, owner of Ferme de Ciel, the luxury ski chalet in Samoa in the Grand Massif, France. We are open for skiing from mid December to end of April. And we're only one hour from Geneva, so perfect for short breaks or longer holidays. Single or multiple, multiple bookings. Contact us on femdecl.com or 0773-310-0020. Hi, I'm Farah Brown, founder of Femnisty. Femnisty is a platform dedicated to women all around the world. Through Femnisty you can connect with like minded women, share any positive or challenging issues you may face be facing, either work related or personal. Together we can all learn from each other and be stronger. So sign up today@feministy.com or download our app Feministy. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@media mattersforwomen.org Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand, advertising your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, Head of Business Development at Women's Radio Station. Radio Advertising is the most cost effective way reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 07-956-37-1483 or alternately zmomeomensradiostation.com. Welcome back to Judy Mae is Listening here on WRS Women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. I'm already sitting up stronger. I'm already feeling feistier. For the week I'm all ready to kick butt and it's because the tribe I have around me. Today we have the incredible Sarah who is a dj, musician and artist and tattooed woman extraordinaire. She blushes so easily. It's just. It's almost like a switch. Just say something good. We also have Idil Sookan, the artist and photographer and person who will not be defined. I'm just making fun. So basically what we've been talking about is the way that we can choose to become stronger as women and how sometimes we feel like we didn't really get a choice and we had to become stronger. For me, it was a Conscious choice it was. The way I kind of got through life was just by being lovely and helpful and sweet and smart and funny and never really had to develop that kind of kickass, badass side to myself. But then realized that when you over lead with some aspect of yourself, so if you're overleading with flight or flow, freeze or fawn responses and you don't have any fight, well, you're kind of limited. You just don't have that available to you. And so a couple of years ago, decided to go out to LA and train in cage fighting mma. And it completely changed me. I remember the very first class that I had. I would lightly tap him with a boxing glove. This is my awesome trainer who's a fighter. I wanted to train with someone who was an actual fighter, not someone who was just a teacher. I wanted that whole mindset, that whole fighter way of being. And I would just gently tap him with a boxing glove such that he probably didn't even feel it. Maybe he thought a butterfly landed on his arm. And then I would apologize profusely for the next five minutes and he goes, there is no sorry in boxing. Then by the end of the class, he sort of hit me a little bit hard and he apologized and then looked really confused as if to say, what was that about? And he said, there is no sorry in fighting. And I just thought, okay, that's really, really interesting. And another thing he taught me as well is, you know, I said, I just don't want to hurt you. And he goes, but if you don't hurt me, then I might hurt you. And I remember just not even understanding the concept. I remember thinking, yes, that's fair enough. That's how it works, isn't it? You know, I get hurt so that others don't have to. I had to take myself home and, you know, do a lot of thinking and crying that day in order to start working out that, yeah, you know what, I have the right not only to be defensive, but to be offensive in order to bring my life into that bigger sphere and be more of what I can be. And the last two years have just been phenomenal because I had that new way around me. Sarah, you were saying during the break that you really had to develop that as a child. You had to develop that fight reflex. Yeah, well, I am essentially a double immigrant. I was born in Poland and then a decision was made for me that we're immigrating to Sweden. And so, you know, I lost like all my friends, you know. How old were you when that happened. I was 14, so it kind of sucked. Oh my gosh. And then, yeah, you know, being a new kid in school, being a new Polish kid in the Swedish school, just you know, really had to toughen up and stand up for myself and, you know, just get on with the fact that I do not fit in and I never will. And then, yeah, and then I made a decision to, you know, come to the UK on my own when I was 18 years old. So again, like, this is like another immigration and you absolutely didn't have anyone out to rely on here. So just really had to, you know, make sure that I survive in this massive city as a 18 year old who doesn't have a clue, you know, so that really, really, really toughened me up. Yeah. And what do you think would have happened if you, if you decided to retreat instead? Well, if I decided to retreat, then I probably would have stayed in Sweden with my family and I probably would have never learned how to DJ and I probably would have never been part of awesome bands and been on stage and, you know, understood that this is really what I'm supposed to be doing. I just wouldn't have been exposed to all these things that shaped who I am. Yeah. So I probably would have studied life psychology or something and just ended up being nice and helping people. And the interesting thing is that this is what it's all about. It's like we're not sort of becoming feistier for the sake of it, and we're not becoming feistier to make life difficult for anybody else, but just in order to take our rightful space and to do so non apologetically and consistently. And it's perfectly fine because that's what you have to do to, you know, also make other people happier, I think, because when you. I think when you find your slot where you belong, where you're supposed to be doing, you just become better, more helpful, more inspiring to other people. You know, you're actually bringing something good to the society and people around you, I think. And Adil, do you feel the same way about that? In what aspect? In terms of just the importance of, you know, taking your space and making sure that you're standing up for what it is that you want. Oh, gosh. I mean, you. I think you. Everyone takes up space and I think there is obviously this, I mean, English politeness that maybe rolls over into the work that we create and the sounds that we make. And of course, again, the way we're raised as women, we want to be smaller. And this obviously rolls into another huge discussion of we're taught to even be physically smaller or to aspire to that which is obviously terrible, and that can trap us into all sorts of expectations that we put on ourselves. But I want to say that I actually think that there is this idea that we have to toughen up. And I think that idea is accepting, you know, accepting society for what it is, which I think is. Is wrong. I think, like, society is broken and terrible and awful, and nothing is gonna hit you as hard as life is like, well, why should we accept that? I think it's like, oh, we have to toughen up because of this terrible life. It's like, no, maybe we change that notion. This. You know, we. If we don't allow ourselves to be toughened up. Because I think if you toughen yourselves up, then you master yourselves. You master. You get rid of all the, like, the really raw, like, terrible bleeding edges of you that actually make you amazing and interesting, and you're vulnerable. I think this idea of sensitivity and vulnerability, which I was talking about with lots of people recently, men and women, and that the idea of sensitivity and vulnerability in men is a. Are traits that are undesirable. And so boys are taught to toughen up as early as possible. And again, our sensitivity, women's sensitivity, and women's vulnerability are taught. It's suggested that that's what's keeping us down again, like, it's like, we need to toughen up in the boardroom. We need to toughen up on. You know, if you show it, then you're crazy. You're a crazy emotional lady. Oh, no. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And actually, what. I don't necessarily think this was an idea that I had, but over the years, what's happened. I'm sure Chidi May has seen it online that I've, like, embraced being incredibly sensitive and vulnerable. And I've just been like, this is how I feel all the time. I feel like I'm on fire all the time. Why does anybody else feel like this? Why are we not all screaming all the time? There's so much that's wrong. And, you know, I find that very interesting because it's almost like you and I were coming from very opposite positions. And so the thing I needed to do was to become tougher and not lead so much of my vulnerability. And for you, it was that you had been doing the, you know, the quite strong or the quite defended way. Yes. And then you had to let the vulnerability sort of grow. So this is why it's lovely having you in Studio because you're two women who, you know, almost embody that for the more vulnerable women. How do we do that? And then I'm sure that you also have your. You also have your different ways that you different women that you're looking at in order that you can sort of say, well, okay, this is how to do vulnerability. This is how to do, you know, whatever it is that you're developing in you. So, yeah, that's really, really interesting. So what would you say, Sarah, is the next step for you? Well, instead of answering your question, I would like to say I really, really relate to what Sybil just said because I actually feel like I've become a lot more okay with myself when I let my pain and my vulnerability come out and actually completely burying my soul and my feelings instead of like trying to put it into nice words. And, you know, and like, I saw something that I've started to do was write lyrics that just like completely don't, you know, dress it up in any way. And, you know, if. Yeah, I just kind of speaking about it in a very open way. And I'm really hoping that if I feel that way, there are other women and girls out there who also feel that way and they just need to be shown that it's okay to feel a particular way and open up about it. And just doing it on your terms. Absolutely. Doing it on your terms. Yes. And Idyl, so what can we expect from you next? Oh, just more sort of bellowing into the void, probably. Well, I mean, in terms of work, I think, yeah, something started to happen recently where exactly what Sara is saying is that you start to be like, look, here is the vulnerability. And then you start to put it into work that you're creating. And whether you work in a creative industry or a non creative industry, just allowing that kind of connection with that I think allows for better, more powerful, more interesting work overall. So that's basically, that's what I'm hoping to do. Fantastic. And so better, more powerful, more interesting. That's where I feel that as a tribe, we're all moving. Thank you so much to my guests today to Sira and to Idil Sookan. And thank you, dear listener, for joining us and wishing you a badass week. Wishing you a week where everything that you need to bring forth happens. That you get to be strong, you get to be vulnerable, that you get to be exactly who it is that you want to be. See you all very, very soon. Take care. Welcome to women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. This is Women's Radio Station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism and my guest today is Karen no. Welcome to future classes. Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. I listen to Women's Radio Station Women's Radio Station. We want to hear from you women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Sue Openshaw, owner of Ferme de Ciel, the luxury ski chalet in Samoa in the Grand Massif, France. We are open for skiing from mid December to end of April and we're only one hour from Geneva, so perfect for short breaks or longer holidays, single or multiple bookings. Contact us on femdeciel.com or 077-331-0002 0. Hi, I'm Farah Brown, founder of Femnisty. Femnisty is a platform dedicated to women all around the world. Through Femnisty you can connect with like minded women, share any positive or challenging issues you may be facing, either work related or personal. Together we can all learn from each other and be stronger. So sign up today@feministy.com or download our app femnisty. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand, advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, Head of Business Development at Women's Radio station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 07-956-371-4883 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com.