Judymay Is Listening LIVE SHOW – Talking About The Art Of Talking

Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome to another Monday. We are here on WRS women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. And today we're going to be talking about talking. Women love to talk. We know that, we know that. We love to talk. But a lot of times people forget that there are different modes that we can go into when we speak, different ways that we can be more or less effective. And the thing that I've noticed that's coming in over the weeks in all your questions is this idea of I'm trying to be understood. If you remember, a few weeks ago, we had me elfrison in and she was talking about becoming visible and becoming heard and seen as a woman. And a lot of people were saying, I'm now doing that. I'm on Facebook Live, I have my own podcast, I'm going on the radio, I'm going on tv. And I feel that it's getting worse and not better because very often people are picking it up wrongly. A thing that I find a lot is when we make a statement about looking after ourselves as women. So we make a statement like we really need to get a lot more serious about the fact that so few women are CEOs of big Fortune 500 companies. Or we make a statement that says, you know, we still are getting beaten up in our droves as women. Instantly, the conversation will be turned around and it'll be like, well, but what about men? Men get beaten up too. Or, you know, what about minorities? And again, you know, we talked about that when we had Yasmin Khan in that it is much more difficult for women who are part of a minority than it is for middle class white women like myself. So what is it that we can do to really look at what, what we're saying, how we're saying it, to make sure that we are being picked up in the best possible light, or at least we have the best shot of being understood and being listened to and being taken seriously by people in order to get the result that we want in this life. And today, for the first time, you'll be meeting him in a little while. We have a man as a guest, Phil. Dave. And the reason that I brought Phil into you is because I really admire him as a broadcaster. He's also a radio producer for the BBC and he'll be hopefully telling you a little bit more about him. But one thing I really adore about Phil is. He thinks and then communicates. And you can just see that little moment where he's just kind of getting it right. And sometimes I feel that that's something I do well. Sometimes I feel it's something I do less well. Sometimes I feel like I'm just this sort of like fountain of emotion, this ocean of emotion that just needs to just get out and say stuff and, and, and then work it out afterwards. Sometimes I'm surprised by what comes out of my mouth and I sort of then have to say, right, what do we do with that? Where do we go with that? Not necess thing, but sort of interesting. And I see amongst my peer group as well as amongst the clients that I have, that some women just don't even seem to notice what it is that they're saying. And some women are very clear about what they're saying, but they're not noticing the result that they're getting. We know from NLP the great phrase communication is the result that you get. And I think a lot of you have written to me about is the fact that you're in a relationship with a narcissist, whether that is a narcissistic boss, a narcissistic partner, a narcissist family member. And no matter what you do, no matter what you say, they don't seem to get it. And so I'm going to kind of put a caveat out there for the whole of today's show that everything that we're talking about doesn't apply generally to everybody. If you're dealing with someone who is themselves dysfunctional, if you're dealing with someone who is narcissistic, who isn't communicating in order to be understood and to understand, but is just communicating in order to control. None of what we're going to be talking about today applies because you can be there being absolutely wonderful and making sure that they feel supported, making sure that they are being picked up correctly, but then they can just change it. They can just change it on a dime. They can just decide that they're going to say something different. Because it was never about getting to a shared understanding for them. It was always about destabilizing you. It was always about making sure that you don't have the upper hand in any moment, that they have control of the situation, or simply that they get their kicks from getting narcissistic supply. So please don't take everything that we're going to be talking about in the next hour and just apply that and think it's going to work. That's a huge mistake that I made. I used to go and study all kinds of relationship things about, you know, if you, if you say this to a man in this way, then, you know, then he'll felt understood, then he'll felt, then he'll feel like he's important to you. And then, and then I get into narcissistic relationships and be just completely bemused as to why these communication techniques weren't working. And I would think it was me and I would go and read even more books and become even more expert. And now I realize that, you know, that was never going to work. However, when we just look at how it is that we're coming across and how we can say things, we can often feel more confident in communicating because I think the biggest mistake that we as women make is to be quiet. And the reason that we're often quiet is we don't know what to say or we're afraid that what we say will be taken up incorrectly and we'll be confronted and we feel that we're often not good at confrontation. Or perhaps it's that you just feel that, well, what's the point anyway? Because someone's going to take my idea. I've had loads of situations where I've been hanging out with showbiz type people and I've thought of something to say, but I know that instantly somebody is going to be saying that thing louder or someone's going to be saying that thing on their show as if it was theirs. And I kind of feel like, yeah, you know what, I think I'll just keep that from myself. So lots and lots to talk about. So Let me introduce Mr. Phil. Dave. Phil. Why was it that you got into radio? Presumably it is got something to do with the fact that there are things that need to be communicated well, sort of. There was first and foremost. Can I just say what a tremendous honour to be the first male guest on Judy May's Listening. So thank you very much indeed for that, Judy May. Absolutely welcome. However, I think that the way that I actually got into radio, if I'm brutally honest, was actually a bit of an accident. And this shocks people because I really have made a career out of it, but I wasn't necessarily planning on doing so originally. My skill set has always been, from years gone by, that I am first and foremost a computer technician. So actually who on earth would have thought it that a geek like me was going to end up talking on radio? The way I got into it though was actually through Computers, because part of the computer work I used to do, and still do occasionally, was design websites. And there was a certain website from a certain radio station that was launched, I reckon around the year 2000, something along those lines, maybe a bit longer. Actually, no, around 2003, I reckon it was. And they launched a website for, you know, the radio station Magic. Hopefully most people do know anyway. And I always used to go through the websites with a fine tooth comb because it was for design inspiration. I wanted to look and see what other designers were coming up with and think to myself, okay, can I. Can what you. Very much what you were saying, can you borrow ideas from other people? Well, I used to think, can I borrow the ideas from another individual who's designed this website? And how can I make the most out of it? Anyway, one of the sections of this new website was a frequently Asked questions page. And the questions there, one of them was, how do I get into radio? And that was a real light bulb moment for me. I don't think it's ever happened since. But it was a real light bulb moment that I looked at that and I thought, oh my goodness me, that's exactly what I want to do. And I never knew it until that point. So that's kind of how I got into it. The question was, how do I get into radio? The answer was, either go for student radio. Well, I left school at the age of 15, so I wasn't going to do student radio, or it was get into hospital radio, because that's a very good starting ground. And I did a search for hospital radio Northwest London and came up with a suggestion or two, sent off a couple of applications. One got back to me and then the rest, I guess, is history, as they say. And when you are actually on radio, when you're broadcasting, we. What is it about being able to speak to that many people that really appeals? I think that it is knowing that I can be heard without necessarily being judged, or if I am being judged, then I don't know I'm being judged because hopefully someone's just listening. Obviously there is interaction with radio stations now in the droves. People interact and of course through that and through social media, meaning that people are far more accessible then absolutely. People can be taunted and criticized and pulled apart. Absolutely they can. But I think that it's knowing that by and large, it's probably the most effective way of having an opinion, or having opinions, I should say, because I don't necessarily believe that my opinion is important. I like getting opinions out of Other people. I have to tell you that sitting here as your guest is actually very unnerving for me because more often than not, I'm the one putting the questions to other people and finding out about them. And that's where my genuine interest lies, is getting to know other people and what they believe about certain situations and certain stories. So for me to sit here and being the one under the spotlight is very different, to say the least. So when you're sitting in the other chair, as it were, and you are trying to get information out of somebody, you're trying to get them to communicate. Let's imagine if it's someone who isn't a very strong communicator or someone who you feel that there's even more that you could be getting from them. What is your sort of, do you have a go to? Do you have a way that you, you know, get the information out of them? The most important trick with anyone, and this does not necessarily just apply in radio, it applies, I believe, in everyday conversations, is putting someone at their ease. And the way that you do that is never come across as high and mighty. Never come across as no matter what the other person says, you're going to judge them or put them down or, or think ill of them. Communication is a two way street. And a lot of people make the mistake of believing that communication falls entirely at their doorstep. It's just their responsibility. But actually it's a team effort. So if I was communicating with you and I thought for a second that you were either judging me or maybe not liking what I was going to say, I would either confront about it or I would probably shut down and just walk away. If I'm honest, that's kind of my attitude towards it because I believe if someone doesn't want to make the effort, well, then why are you going to put in the effort? But of course there are tips and tricks of how you can work around it and how you can ultimately try and maybe help people see the light and change their attitudes in talking to you. And do you find that when you do that, when you're able to put someone at their ease, that they become a better version of themselves? Or do you think that the chances are that they just kind of shut down? I think that it's always possible to bring out confidence in somebody to be able to communicate, but it's not necessarily that easy with everyone. It just depends on the individual and you have to kind of suss them out. All right, awesome. We're going to have more after this on how we can become even more confident communicators. Welcome to Women's Radio Station, the voice of women Worldwide. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Judy May is listening. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy at Women's Radio Station Live voice of women worldwide talking about all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. I'm Saskia at Sable Forex and we specialize in saving individuals and companies money on their international money transfers or foreign exchange. So when money's crossing currencies, whether it's euros to yen or rands to pounds, that's where we can add value. So for all your foreign exchange needs, I'm Saskia at Sable. You can contact me on saskia.johnston.com or my number is 0207-759-7541. 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With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities including individual programs, we can tailor your experience to you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com women the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, Head of Business Development at Women's radio station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-563-7148. 3 or alternately. Zmomewomensradiostation.com. Welcome to Judy Mailer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen, and together we transform everything. And welcome back. In this hour, we are talking about talking how is it we can be even more confident communicators? And I have here Phil Dave, producer and broadcaster. And one of the things I thought, Phil, was really interesting that you were saying before the break was that, you know, if it's not happening, you can usually walk away. And I think that that is so, so important that a lot of people don't even get into a conversation because they feel it would be rude to walk away, not realizing that if someone's making a conversation impossible, they are, in fact the ones being rude. And I think as women, we're not. We're always encouraged to, you know, be the polite one, be the peacemakers. And I think that it's really a powerful part of communicating to know that we don't have to communicate. In fact, myself and Elspeth are associate producer. We were in the Carinthia before this having a bit of breakfast, and we were talking about the fact that someone had said something quite inappropriate to her and that the response, you know, just how do you even respond to that? And a thing that I learned years ago from Susan Jeffers, God Rest yout Soul, the author of Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway, is that your response can just be the word oh. It can just be the word oh, or even nothing. And that as women, we feel like we have to justify or we have to wrap something around it that we can't just walk away. And, you know, you sort of say in radio you can't walk away. But presumably there have been times where people feel so put upon that they have actually had to just cut it short. Absolutely. Yes. There are most definitely ways of walking away. And I believe that people don't underestimate or people do underestimate, I should say, rather talk about communicating. I don't do that very well. I would say that people underestimate the power of silence. If you really disapprove with what someone has just said to you or something that has been said and I'm talking about in everyday conversations now, I'm not talking about if you're on air, that's a very different beast, and it's a very unusual one as well. But if you're in a conversation and someone says something to you that you strongly disagree with or disapprove and actually shocks you to the core, to the point where you can't say anything. Here's the best advice. Don't say anything, because actually you'll make much more of a statement if you just walk away. Because then that way your feelings are known without you having to trying to express yourself through words because you've expressed yourself perfectly. Absolutely, you have announced I'm not complicit and I will not be complicit and I'm done. Yeah, exactly. When it comes to an on air situation, and I'm a bit loathe to sort of potentially start naming names, so I won't, if you'll forgive me, but there have been times when I've been stuck in the middle of very, very awkward interviews. Don't worry, this is not one of them. But stuck in the middle, Is that a threat? Stuck in the middle of very awkward interviews where the person, the other side of the microphone or the side of the desk is being very monosyllabic, clearly is not engaging and does not want to communicate, doesn't want to talk, not interested in even being there and almost doing me a favour by being there. The way that I would deal with something like that is that, cut it short, okay, I can't just not talk, but I can always start to wrap up an interview and start saying something along the lines of, anyway, unfortunately, we are out of time. Thank you very much indeed. And you have the power. Would you ever call someone out, though? Would you ever confront them on it? Would you ever say something like, hey, it sounds as if you're actually not that interested in being here, or would that just make things too awkward for the listener? Yeah, I think it depends. I mean, there are some situations, of course, when it certainly comes to, say, political interviews, when you come across a politician who said something, who maybe really shouldn't have said something, and it makes it very unpleasant listening, then you should pick them apart that way. Because at the end of the day, if you've got someone like a politician who is there to represent the masses, you certainly don't want to allow them to get away with saying something that does not represent their constituents or indeed their followers. So I think with situations like that, it's important to pick it apart and maybe confront a bit. But confrontation is not easy and I don't encourage it either because it can be very unpleasant all round. And I still stand by that. I believe that just the best way to make yourself known of how you disapprove with something someone has said in the way they've said it is just to end it, just to walk away. Although I find sometimes your silence can make people believe that you're agreeing with them and you have nothing to add to it. So a phrase I really love is I just can't get behind that statement. Like if somebody, if you're in a situation, say, where it's at a wedding or a small dinner party and someone says something that is sort of like, not that I like this phrase, but, you know, soft racism or soft homophobia or soft misogyny, where, you know, if you were to blatantly call them out on it, if you were to get all soapboxy on it, they could just sort of argue that they weren't being racist, homophobic or misogynistic. But you just want to flag the fact that that's kind of not okay with me. I just love when we have little phrases because a lot of times people say to me, I just didn't know what to say, I just didn't know what to say. So just sort of saying, yep, don't agree with you there, or can't get behind that statement, or I don't see it that way, can be sort of useful little things to drop in there. Reacting in the heat of the moment is one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do because you have to think on the spot. And this is a very different route to go down, you know, from everyday conversation. If someone has said something you fundamentally disagree with or a political statement that really upsets you and distresses you, to not know what to say is normal. So for anyone who starts getting a bit flummoxed and thinks, what do I do? What am I supposed to say now? How do I. Of course, this is what's going through the mind. You might not necessarily say that out loud, but that's what's going through the brain, is to think to myself, now hang on a second, I really don't like that. And I want to come up with something strong to fight back with, but the awful truth is that a lot of the time you won't. Because we're so stressed about the situation, so stressed at that moment of what we've just heard, the chances are it's only with hindsight you're going to think of what you should have said to somebody. And I'd say, in situations like that, again, I keep saying, walk away from it, and I really do mean it. But what you could do to help oneself with knowing this is that actually whether it's abhorrent or not. Everyone is entitled and does have their own opinions. So you will clash with people sometimes because if we all thought the same, well, then it would be a very boring world. And I believe that it is possible to learn that mere fact. Everyone is in touch with their opinion. You might not agree with it, but it doesn't matter if someone has a different opinion to you. In fact, it's a good thing. Yeah, I don't think anyone could accuse the world of being boring right now, that's for sure. I don't believe we're that boring. No, not at the moment. And do you feel that a lot of the ways that people are communicating has changed because of technology? Like not just radio, which has obviously been around for gosh, about what, a hundred years now at this Stage? It's nearly 100 years, yes. The first broadcast was about 94 years ago, I think it was. And hey, look, look at where we are now. I know I'm looking good for it. Right. But the thing is that, you know, a lot of people will blame technology for sort of a decrease in people either being eloquent or being able to dig deeper into opinions. What is your view on that? Well, I believe that technology has changed the way we communicate. I don't think it's necessarily destroyed the way we communicate, but it has definitely changed it. And it can change it for the better, it can change it for the worse. You know, obviously the worst situations are when you hear about social media trolling, when people tell others what they really think about them and they're keyboard warriors, they hide behind their keyboards, they remain anonymous, and yet they're ripping someone to shreds and destroying their self confidence and their belief in themselves for either the way they look, for the way they sound, for any whatever the reason it might be. But is that not just a version of what we've always had that you have always had? People who are very aggressive, very toxic, and have always found a way to indirectly communicate this toxicity that they feel toward people? It might have been through in the past through just talking behind their back. It might have been through just the way they look or you know, the odd phrase here and there, letting it be known. And perhaps it's just the forum for that aggression and toxicity that's changed. The forum for that toxicity has not only changed, it has given it a bigger platform. It's a much larger platform. Social media is first and foremost a public space. And most people don't really understand truly how to make everything they do and say private, and especially those perpetrators of vile comments are going to want to get that to as large an audience as they possibly can. So if they're going to use social media as a way of berating somebody, the last thing they're going to do is to limit the impact that could have. So I would say that, yes, it is true that those people have probably always been there. And most importantly, on a separate note, I really think it's important for people to believe and recognize that those who are perpetrating such heinous acts are more than likely the ones with a problem. It's not you, it's just they recognize themselves as having some sort of issue, and therefore they just project that onto somebody else because they can't deal with their own situation. That's really important to remember that. And I'm talking as someone who went through all of my school life bullied like there was no tomorrow. And I know I wasn't the only one who did that. But what I have done is I've learned from it, and I've learned quite a valuable lesson. And I believe it's quite important for others to realize that same lesson. More often than not, that's their problem. But when it comes to communicating in a positive way through social media and maybe through mobile communication, I think the, the way that it really bugs me is let's just say you're out for dinner with friends, and one of the first things that people do when they sit down is they'll get out and they'll put their phones down on the table. It's almost as if they're waiting for somebody else to contact them, something better to come along. Well, you don't have to wait for something better to come along because you've got somebody with you right in front of you. I don't look at it as any different now, Judy Mae, as if I'm sitting here with you right now. I'm. And I put my phone on the table next to us here. It's as if I can't be bothered. It sends out the message that I'm waiting for something else to come up, and therefore, I'm only communicating with you as a favor. If you're in the presence of somebody else, you don't need your mobile device. You don't need to communicate with anybody else. You are there in the moment with that person. Communicate with that person. Otherwise, why are you bothering? Absolutely. Well, the thing we're going to be looking at after the next break is how can we do this? How can we protect ourselves from trolls? Because a lot of women feel that they just are exhausted already by pushing back against aggression in everyday life. And if they've got to go on social media and do another layer of pushback, it's just more of what's exhausting them. So how can we find a way to protect ourselves from the negative aspects of technology and then really enjoy the positive right after this? Women's radio station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. We aim to show the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and a platform for your voice. 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If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately zmomewensradiostation.com. Here we are at women's radio station wrs, the voice of women worldwide. This is Judy Mae Murphy. And also in studio, we have the incredible Phil Dave, the first man I've ever had on as a guest. And we're talking, we're talking all about talking. And just before the break, we, Phil, was talking about how in technology, particularly online, you have this situation that we all know about where we have trolls, you have people who are just there to leak their toxicity, not really to add to the conversation, which is kind of like what we're talking about at the very top of the hour, where there are some people who are not there to bring things forward and gain consensus or even add to the conversation, but just there to control and let it be known that they're not feeling good about themselves or anything ever. And as women, we, I think we're even more sensitive to that because we don't have the same feeling for just argy bargy for just, you know, knock about. You know, when you see little boys, they can be quite cruel to each other. And I'm not saying that they don't feel it, but they just do have a sense of this is just that, that women don't have. We take everything desperately seriously. I'm getting some nods here in the room and not leastable from the men and the. And the great thing is that we can actually train ourselves how to not respond just with this visceral gut reaction to not just get wobbly and shaky. I was the person who would just get wobbly and shaky. That was just my reaction all the time with anyone saying anything that I felt to be an attack. And in fact, someone who we've spoken about before on this show is if you go to Twitter and follow her, M? Raz E M R A Z Z. She's called the feminist next door. And she is the most extraordinary woman for putting forward answers to trolls. She takes them on, she waits until someone says something particularly infected, and she just will say, here's what's happening right here. And a lot of people will say to her, they're trolls. Ignore them, and they'll go away. But she's in fact doing Something brilliant where she's saying, no, I will not ignore them. They don't get to take up space with this nonsense. They don't get to take up my space. They're replying to my Twitter feed, and what they're saying is not okay to me. They're personally attacking me. Now she has more serious situations where people are threatening to have her killed, threatening to rape her. I mean, that happens on a daily basis. Sometimes even she appeals to the rest of us to help her with reporting it to the FBI, which we all jump on board and do. She even has people who will create new accounts over and over again. Once Twitter close them down with one account, they'll set up another one with the same photograph. They won't hide the fact that it's the same person and will just, you know, it's online stalking. It's just. It's insidious. It's just awful for her. But she just won't let that keep her quiet. She says, no, I won't be silent in the face of this. This is something that's very important. And I certainly and lots of other people have learned so much from just the elegant way that she is able to not lead with being nice. We've spoken about that quite a lot. The way as women, we often lead with lovely, but she'll just lead with logical, and she'll lead with no, it's not okay to speak to me like that. It's not okay to treat me like that. And that is, I think, an upside of what's going on on social media where you're able to have more role models for how do other women handle this? So you're not just looking at the women who are around you? Because certainly I never had role models for. How do you speak up? How do you say no? How do you push back? Because all my role models were even more timid than I was. My mom, in particular was just kind of like, oh, well, just, you know, just leave it. Just. They'll get over it. Just let them. Let them do it and just be quiet and don't cause a fuss. I mean, literally, the phrase don't cause a fuss was the mantra in my household growing up. And now I'm happy to say I am brilliant at causing a fuss. I will cause an excellent fuss. Anytime I see any kind of dysfunction going on, I will call it out. I will shine a light on it. I will say, and this is what it is, obviously, while keeping myself safe, either with my cage fighting training or my ability to Walk away or just our common sense, though that isn't common enough as we know. So Phil, to get back to you, we were talking before about the way that you communicate on air and how that often isn't the same as the way that we can do things in real life. How do you feel that? And this is actually something that our producer wanted to know. How has your communication changed as since you've started being a broadcaster? And how has it changed you as a broadcaster and also how has it changed you as a person? Okay, well, as far as how it's changed my ability to communicate actually quite dramatically because when I was growing up I always remember sort of being. And a lot of people do not believe this at all, but hopefully this is proof of what I'm about to say. I always remember being at school, the one who would shy away in the corner, who wouldn't speak out, who wouldn't say very much, who didn't want to get involved with others, who didn't want to communicate with others. I just found it easier. Suppose it was part and parcel of the whole bullying process is that it used to rip the self esteem out of me and therefore I didn't want to communicate with other people. I didn't see a need to. And when I started getting into radio, what it does slowly but surely is it does build confidence because when you know that it's just you talking and as I was saying before earlier on, that you will be heard, suddenly your voice matters and it's that moment when you think, ah, okay, actually I have a voice and I can use it and there is a reason behind using my voice now. So I would say that it's changed me in my confidence big time. Changed me in my confidence to the extent now that I'll talk to most people and I won't really care what they think about what I say in terms of if they disagree with me before I might have said, oh, okay, sorry, you know, and just cower away. But now, okay, they can disagree with me and as I said, it can either walk away or I can try and confront the situation. I suppose you have more references. So when you're day after day living this reality where you think something, somebody thinks something else and it's okay, then your body doesn't feel it has to react with all these danger signals going on, all these whistles and red flags going off saying, danger, danger, stop, shut up, don't say anything. But instead it's sort of like, no, in fact, you know what? This person doesn't agree with me, but they are acknowledging my viewpoint, or they're acknowledging my right to hold that. Or maybe the. Or I acknowledge their viewpoint. I acknowledge their right to have that viewpoint. So that's exactly. That's part and parcel of it. What do you think then of these new stations that are not about that? It's not even new. I mean, with the whole shock jock thing. I was gonna say shock jocks have been around for years, haven't they? So, you know, do you feel that that is kind of bringing us backwards in terms of communication? Because it's giving people those references that are unhelpful. The idea of if you have a different opinion, you will be slammed down, you will be shamed, you will be made to think that you are nothing. Well, as much as I don't necessarily agree with the shock jock technique, just because that's not my style, it was never why I went into radio. I do think it does teach a valuable lesson that life is not necessarily the way you expect it. So you can't always be wrapped in cotton wool. You can't always be mollycoddled into a situation thinking that everything's gonna go your way, because it's not. But is there a difference between being molly coddled and being roundly abused, which is what happens with a lot of shock jock stations? Absolutely. If it is on the brink of abuse or you believe it to be abuse, then there is something very wrong with this. And again, it comes back to just walking away from that situation and not putting yourself in that situation in the first place. If you're the kind of individual who does not have the mental ability to cope with being attacked in whichever way possible, walk away from it. Don't deliberately make yourself feel worse. Why would you do that? Well, maybe you would do it because if it's not confronted, if it's just ubiquitous and therefore there's like a complicit idea of acceptance just because, you know, people who are going on it are going with the flow of it and that perhaps you do need people to go on it and sort of say, well, no, it's not okay to speak to me like that, even though they get shamed. So at least the people who are listening who are agreeing with that. Yeah, I did think something was a bit funny there. I did think that it wasn't okay to say that, that it's being confronted. But it seems to that these days there are these little islands being created, particularly with the whole idea of toxic masculinity. And I'm aware That we've got two men from men's radio station in the room right now, both of us very toxic, clearly. Lovely. We're very happy to have you in studio today. And what you know, there are these little islands being created where particularly when they're discussing things like, you know, the place of women and they're discussing things like, you know, women must understand this and you know that they throw around the phrase feminazi all the time and men and women are listening to this and sort of thinking that somehow that is okay. Now yes, we can say it's okay in terms of they have every right to be wrong. Right. Everyone has the right to be wrong. They have the right to be an idiot, they have the right to be horrible. But that doesn't mean that the rest of us need to sit back and be okay with it. Well, I think it depends on what your definition of be okay with this is. If you are saying that you don't like someone who's saying and therefore I must correct them until they see my way of thinking or the general consent, the general public's way of thinking, then I would say good on you. If you've got that in you, you've got that ability, then great. But know thy limit. If you are the kind of person that, who doesn't have that in you to be able to try and change someone with such a strong opinions mind, either walk away from it, either don't listen or build up to it in a proverbial kind of way. If you're the kind of individual who can't swim, you're not exactly going to go diving into the deep end straight away. You're going to learn to swim in the shallow end first. It's the same with communication. Build up to it, become a communicator that is able to deal with situations like that. If it's not your natural ability, well then obviously you're not going to be able to take on someone who's got such a poisonous in your opinion view to deal with. It's not going to be possible because they've spent years perfecting their way. So you're not going to be able to match it exactly. You know, you can put whatever comparison you wish to. You're not exactly going to go into a boxing ring with Muhammad Ali if you're just starting off. Do you see what I mean? It's all about building up to ability. Communication is a skill and you have to be able to build up to a level where you are able to take on those who have better communication skills than you. I love that because we very often think that where we're at now, that's kind of just who we are. And that's how it's always going to be, particularly when it comes to ideas of I'm too timid or I'm not good at expressing my opinion or I get confused too easily or whatever it is that makes someone believe that they're not a good communicator. But this idea of, yes, you know what, right now you might be in the shallow end paddling away and that might be just where you're at right now, that there are ways that we can learn how to communicate better, that we can build that skill set. And coming up after this break, I'll be talking some more to Phil, Dave, all about how it is that we can do that. How can we become better communicators in our lives and for everything that we're fighting for? Welcome to women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio Station. Hello and welcome to Judy May is listening. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy at women's radio station Live voice of women worldwide talking about all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. I'm Saskia at Sable Forex and we specialize in saving individuals and companies money on their international money transfers or foreign exchange. So when money's crossing currencies, whether it's euros to yen or rands to pounds, that's where we can add value. So for all your foreign exchange needs, I'm Saskia at Sable. You can contact me on saskia.johnstonable international.com or my number is 0207-759-7541. Hi, I'm Helen Prosper. I'm a health coach and I support people to take back control of their health so they feel radiantly well and vibrantly alive. Because it's from that place of health that we really can do more, be more, give more, play more and co create a better world. If living your life to the full is of interest to you, then take a look at my website livewellandprosper.uk and let's speak soon. Do you need mediation? We are the A project charity. We provide convict resolution and community engagement services. Our services include community mediation for neighbour disputes, family mediation for separating couples, special education needs for parents, carers and their children and young adults, as well as workplace mediation and restorative services. To find out more, head to womensradiostation.com or theaproject.co.uk women's radio station can give a voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs, we can tailor your experience to you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com women the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, head of business development at women's radio station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately, zmomeomensradiostation.com. Welcome back to Judy Mae is Listening. I'm Judy Mae Murphy. We are here on women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. And for this hour, we've been talking live all about communication. Because as women, we often feel that we're kind of starting off with, I don't know how we'd put it, a bit of a handicap in a way that there are certain presumptions about what we are and are not allowed to say. The kind of space we're allowed to take up verbally. And we've been speaking here with Phil Dave, broadcaster and producer, all about the, you know, the different ways of looking at how is it that we communicate, how is it that we come across, how can communication change us? And I love the way just before the break, Phil was talking about how it's something that we can grow into, that it might be that now you feel that you don't have the chops to get in there and have an argument, whether that is on social media, on the radio or in your life, that you just don't have it to stand up to someone or to communicate with someone who has perhaps seen you as being the lesser communicator or the least important person in the room. A lot of women know what that feels like. And learning how we can use different phrases, how we can just gain the skill of communicating and use it to enhance our lives. So, Phil, what would you say are the building blocks? Because these days people don't really think about things like elocution or phrases or eloquence. I mean, I come from Ireland where eloquence is highly praised. An American cousin of mine came over in the 80s and 90s and used to just be amazed at the way she would put it, was, why are all your people on television so ugly? And I just was like, really? And she goes, you don't have any beautiful people on television. And I realized that the reason was. Well, I don't think it was particularly true, but the reason was that in Ireland, we've always thought of eloquence as being much more important than the visual, that the banter is more important than people's looks. And, well, I was going to say, with no disrespect to our transatlantic friends, I personally believe that being able to talk is a bit of a prerequisite for being a broadcaster. And it's quite extraordinary the number of people who make it on screen in the US and around that part of the world who can't really talk very well. They might look good, but they don't sound good. How would we coach them? How would we. If we were to say, right, let's just bring it right back to basics, what would you say are the building blocks of communication? Okay, well, there are actually several aspects to it. Now, I don't want to bamboozle people, I don't want people to overthink about the way they talk, but I do want you to think of fundamentally how you're talking. Just the basics are as pace. The most important thing ever is pacing yourself. I don't understand why whenever people talk, they sound like they're trying to catch a bus or a train or something like that goes at 100 words a minute. Could that be because they're used to being stopped and they think that that sort of velocity is the only thing that's going to get them to the end of their idea? Well, if that is the case, it's just been proven wrong with me. You've just stopped me and I'm carrying on. So it doesn't. It's not necessarily true. It may well be that people think like that, that they have to get their opinion heard as quickly as possible, otherwise they're not going to be heard. But actually, there's nothing wrong with being stopped and having a conversation that is a conversation, after all, as two people are talking. So if you are stopped, it's fine. Just remember where you left off and carry on again if you want to, or change the direction if you so wish. But as I say, pace is. The most important thing, is calmly say what you're about to say and clearly, as well, because more often than not, unfortunately, brains don't work as quickly as a mouth does. Fact. And the way you know this is because the number of people who you were here using buzzwords or buzz phrases just to fill a gap. Now the most fundamental one is umming and ahhing. So in other words, if someone is running out of things to say, they will probably do this just whilst they're thinking of what else they're going to say. And that's because you're not to going giving your brain enough time to think. So just take a step back, slow down a little and try and think as you're talking what the next thing you're about to say is. And that will make a massive difference instantly. Now, umming and ahhing is almost acceptable, but for me, I'm afraid my absolute pet hate with a passion is when people say, like, basically know what I mean? You know, in it, all of these fillers. Yes, absolutely. These fill words that they put in between every other blooming word because they can't think of what they're going to say. Why, why are you going to say like in the middle of something? You don't need to. Like's definition has changed since when I read a dictionary, I can tell you it's unbelievable how many times people say so I was like going like to this, this place like where I was like, what are you talking about? Can you hear yourself? Calm down, pace it. And then that will slowly but surely disappear. So it's all about first and foremost how you talk. Once you've got that under control, more often than not the rest will come naturally because you can start to believe in yourself, because you can hear yourself sounding more confident. Naturally you sound more confident because you're actually saying what you're trying to say and you're letting your brain do the thinking for you rather than your mouth trying to catch up or let the scales balance, if you see what I mean. So it is absolutely unbelievable just how something as simple as that can make a massive difference. And of course, another fundamental then is tone. And we've been taught erroneously that tone counts for 67% of communication. Actually, when that experiment was done, it was, let me get this right, it was along the lines of that when someone is saying something disingenuous, that tone will set you straight. And in those situations it does really count. But the idea that the actual tone can carry the meaning has been something that people have really taken much too far and they're not looking at the actual content of what they're saying. And for me, you were saying that one of your pet peeves is about pacing. I think mine is just word choice. So particularly, you know, I'm a motivational speaker. That's my day job. And a lot of the. Particularly the guys from the stage have just started dropping the F bomb all over the place, saying that, you know, this is. This is me being passionate, this is me, you know, keeping it real. And it's sort of like, you know, they've got this. In this. There's this really complex toolkit available, and they're only using a hammer all the time. And people, you know, choosing. Sometimes you got to choose the most simple word because you want to make sure everyone gets it. But what I'll do from the stage is I will use the word that suits the situation and then I'll realize, you know what, I'm speaking to an audience who have English as a second language. Let me back that up by saying it again in a different way so I won't always choose the simpler word, thinking that that is somehow more powerful. But how do you feel about people having these really restricted vocabularies these days? Well, restricted vocabulary, I think, is a separate matter altogether because that shows to me a distinct lack of A, respect or B, interest in the English language. The truth is, English is proven to be one of the most versatile languages in the world. It's why it's one of the most common languages spoken. Now, I appreciate that not everyone's first language is English, and therefore, why would they have an extensive vocabulary if they've had to sort of, as it were, make way for more than one language in their ability to talk? But the point is that if you are lucky enough to say that English is your first language, and I do believe it's very lucky, I consider myself lucky. My ancestors first languages weren't English, but mine is. And I think that's amazing. I'm very proud of that. But the way that you can recognize it is by exploring it, is listen to the way that people, certainly on radio, use the language, how they talk, the words they use, and look at the situations in which those words are being used. I don't really need to sort of sit here and start giving examples because out of context it won't make much sense, but it can expand the vocabulary and it can make things more interesting because actually, it's part and parcel of making a conversation more believable and more interesting. And what you were saying about tone as well is super important. Excuse me, I can't bear it when people sound as if they're saying something with a total disinterest. How can you possibly expect the person sitting opposite you to listen to what you're saying and to believe in what you're saying if you yourself are just gonna sit there and maybe sound a bit like this and not really show much? It sounds horrendous. It sounds awful. Do you think perhaps people are trying to unconsciously do some social signaling, saying, I'm not gonna get too excited because I don't want people to think that I'm inferior in any way? That often things like excitement and curiosity these days are seen as markers for, you know, not being cool, not being powerful, not really getting it yet, maybe somehow being younger and, dare I say it, even it's seen as a more feminine way of being, whereas being more monosyllabic, being sort of sounding bored is seen as a marker of power. I haven't thought of it like that myself. It is possible that that's what goes through some people's minds. Anything's possible. I would say that in my experience, that that is ludicrous, if I'm honest. But it doesn't mean that people don't think like that and they're perfectly welcome to do so. But I would just say that how much more interesting could a conversation be than when someone actually sounds like that they are interested in what they're saying and that they want to be there and that they want to be talking to the other person? It's just a real basic, fundamental, basic, and one that would get you so much further in life. Not just as if you're going on air on radio. Use it in everyday life, especially in situations such as, say, job interviews, because believe me, you will stand out more for that than if you just turn up and you do the person sitting opposite you a favor by doing so. And the interesting thing, I think, is that with technology, as we were speaking about before, that it really is about how we use it. These days, a lot of people are listening to audio books, and I'd really encourage anyone that likes audiobooks to go back to the classics. You can even just get them on YouTube. There's a thing called Librivox, and you can get wonderful recordings of works by Thackeray, Chesterton Wilde. You know, people who just made an art out of speaking. And just having that ability, having that extra edge, having that confidence can make a really, really big difference. So, Phil, Dave, thank you so much for coming into studio today and speaking to us on Judy May is listening. And for exciting people all about how they can up their skills when it comes to communication, it was the greatest of pleasures. Thank you. And there we go. Wow. So successful having a man in the studio. We shall do this again and something I'd just like to leave you with for this week. You hopefully will be joining us again live at noon next Monday. And think about the fact that you have the right to speak. Very often we don't even exercise our curiosity or, you know, take advantage of the fact that we can improve and we can grow because our brain is often saying to us, well, why would I? You know what? Not only do you have the right to, but there are other women who are listening to you. So I'm listening to you all the time. I'm Judy Mae Murphy, this is Judy May's Listening. Looking forward to seeing you all very, very soon. Women's Radio station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion, connecting women around the world in a global network. Network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. We aim to show the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and a platform for your voice. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Liz Van Linden, a UK travel consultant for Hazelmere Travel. People come to me as they want unique experiences and a personalised service. 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