Join host Judy Mae Murphy as she explores the complex relationship women have with aging, youth, and self-perception. This live show challenges the belief that there’s a ‘right age’ for anything, and examines how our mindset about our age directly impacts our opportunities and happiness. Through real listener letters—including Louisa from Australia navigating dating at 52 and Francesca from Italy reconsidering her career path at 37—Judy Mae demonstrates how shifting our perspective on aging can transform our lives. The episode features special guests Elspeth Proudlock (18) and Dina Hassanein (25), who bring fresh perspectives on how younger women view aging and the diverse paths available to them today.
This conversation reveals a universal truth: feeling ‘too young’ or ‘too old’ is never about chronological age—it’s about our beliefs. Judy Mae encourages listeners to examine the stories they tell themselves about what’s possible at their age, and to recognize that enthusiasm, vitality, and purpose are ageless qualities. Whether you’re questioning your career trajectory, your dating prospects, or your life direction, this episode offers practical wisdom about stepping into your power at any age and refusing to downgrade your dreams.
Main Topics
Age is a state of mind: satisfaction with your age depends on your beliefs and perspective, not your chronological age
Challenge limiting beliefs: Examine the 'evidence' you've collected that supports negative age-related stories and question whether it's actually limiting your possibilities
Stop downgrading your dreams: Many women compromise on their true desires as they age; recommit to what you really want rather than settling for lesser versions
Communicate your value: When you fall in love with your age and what it offers, others will see that same value—strength, experience, freedom, and vitality look good at any age
There's no 'right window': Contrary to the myth, there's no perfect age to pursue something; every decade has unique advantages and opportunities
Younger generations have more flexible pathways: Modern alternatives to traditional education and careers mean age is less of a barrier than ever before
Vitality is ageless: Enthusiasm, health, passion, and an open mindset create a younger energy regardless of chronological age
Full TranscriptWelcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life, and I listen. And t...▼
Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life, and I listen. And together we transform everything. Hello and welcome to Judy Mae is listening. I'm Judy Mae Murphy here on women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. On this show, what happens is I listen to you. I listen to what is going on in your life. What is it that's important to you? What is it that you feel needs to be shared and elevated? What is it that you feel needs to be enhanced? And also, what is it that you feel is a challenge? What is it that maybe is holding you back? And for some of you, there might be things that are starting to make life seem a little bit gray, seem a little bit difficult to move through. And when you feel that those kind of things are dragging down the other areas of your life, that's when we really need to get things sorted. This week we are going to be talking all about aging, about youth and aging, because it seems to me that most people are either satisfied or dissatisfied with their age, no matter what age they are. That you'll have one person when they're 18, they're thrilled to be 18. When they're 80, they're thrilled to be 80. And then you've got someone who, no matter what age they are, they feel like they're too young, too old. And a woman recently said to me that she felt she was too young for years and years and years and years, and then suddenly she felt she was too old. And she's wondering, where was that window? Where is that little bit in the middle where you. She was just right, that she was just the right age? And also, is it possible that at certain ages it's better to be involved in one thing? Like is there a decade or a period of time where it's better to be in your 20s? Is there a time where it's better to be in your 30s? Is there a time where you want to be in your 90s? So these are things we're going to be looking at today. A couple of notes. Let's start off with listening to you guys. First of all, to Louisa from Australia. And Louisa sent us in this, she says, after a divorce three years ago, I'm more than ready to start dating again. But I'm 52 and I'm worried that only really old men will be interested in me. I can hear you saying that in a really broad Australian accent there, Louise, that only really old men will be interested in me. I'd like to date someone around my own age. But men my age want to date women in their 30s. Is there hope? I just love it when people round off their letters to me or even their conversations to me saying, is there hope? Can we do anything? Is it always going to be like this? Because I can feel that idea that maybe you're stuck. We've got to remember that being stuck is only a feeling, it's never a fact. And of course there's not only hope, Louisa, there is more than hope that instantly you can turn around how you're thinking about your age. Because. Because the thing that really jumped out at me from this was the fact that you said men my age want to date women in their 30s. Now I know that you really believe that and I know that you have references for that. So there's a reason why you're believing that. Was it that there was a guy who you were interested in and he went for someone in their 30s. Did that maybe happen three times? Was it that you've been meeting certain men and they've been saying something about, oh no, I want a woman who can still have kids? Or is it that you're going online and you're looking at what are they requesting on the online dating sites and you're extrapolating from that that they want someone younger because maybe they think they want someone younger. But then you also maybe are missing out the guys that are saying, okay, I will date any woman from 20 to 80 who's a little bit more broad minded. So let's just look at the fact that you have references. And we can often believe our references for anything when we have a firm belief that something is true. Like that men in their 50s want to date women in their 30s. It's quite hard for us to shake that belief. And if we don't shake that belief, then we're not going to go out and start looking for something that we don't believe exists. Why would we, why would our brain put us through that? So the first thing we have to look at is shaking those beliefs that aren't serving us. And then the concern that you have is that really only really old men, let's say that you say that your idea of really old, I don't know what really old is, to be honest with you, because there are some people who are, you know, in their teens and they're already really old. They're not playful, they're not open and they're not really alive. They're not loving life. But I'm imagining that you're talking chronologically. And so your idea of maybe really old men would be men 75 and up. Right. So again, there's a picture that you have there that a woman of 52 is valuable to men who are in their 70s. So what is it that you're missing about the value of your age that any person would want to date you? What is it about 52? That's awesome. And when you fall in love with that, you can then communicate that. So let's imagine you meet a guy who is same age as you, maybe a little bit younger, maybe a little bit older, and up until now he's been dating women who are a lot younger. And then he says that to you. You meet him at a party and he sort of says, oh, yeah, you know what? I find I get on much better with younger women. And you say something like, oh, really? Because I find now I am much more experienced, I'm much more fun, I'm much freer. In fact, I'm much younger now than. Than I was when I was in my 30s. I'm also a better communicator. I'm also more adventurous. I'm also more free financially. So, you know, what is it about all those great things that you're completely discounting? Not that you're there literally listing all those things and sort of selling yourself in a hey, you know, buy me, take me off the shelf, as it were, because I'm awesome. But what you're doing is you're just letting people know, well, this is how I see myself. And people will see you that way as well, because I'm 50 years old, and a lot of people find that extraordinary to believe because I come across a lot younger. And the reason for that is because I'm just so in love with life and I'm so enthusiastic about everything. And they associate that enthusiasm with someone who has a younger chronological age. The other thing about age is it really like, even on a biological level, in my mind, it's not how long you've been here, it's how long you've got left. And as someone who eats really healthily and doesn't drink alcohol, has never smoked cigarettes, never taken drugs, you know, I've got a lot of life left here, so I've got a good 50, 60 years left in this body, absolutely rocking it out. And I'm sure from where you come from in Australia, I'm sure you're a surfer, and I'm sure that you, you know, you're really fit and healthy. And if not you can make that happen. And again, then you're communicating. You know what? I have all those things that you want from that you think you can only get from a younger woman. I have strength, I have stamina, I have vivacity. So what I would say about that is change your idea about you and then lead with that idea about you and how incredible you are at whatever age you are, and then you'll find that these ideas about what you can and can't do at that age will absolutely fall away. Alright, so thank you so much for that, Louisa. Oh, by the way, we've got coming up two amazing guests and I'm so, so excited because already in our little chat that we were having on our way into the studio here, I found out some things that I just didn't know and ways of looking at things that I just hadn't looked at. And we have Elspeth Proudlock, who is 18 years old. And when I first met Elspeth, I thought she was at least 26. So that kind of blew my mind. And then we have the 25 year old, no stranger to you, the young people's presenter, who is the broadcaster here with Teen Talk, the teen talk show. And that is Dina. And I'm going to butcher this, but I'm going to give it a go. Hassanein, Dina Hassanein. She's nodding away there. So we've got Dina coming up as well and they're gonna be sharing how it's different and maybe things about how they see aging now and how they look at things and what it's like being younger. And so I'm really looking forward to learning a lot from that. So the second letter that we've got today about aging is from Francesca in Italy. And Francesca says it was a pretty long email, so I have edited it down a little bit. But this is the crux of it. I want to change career, but I'm terrified that I might have left things too late. I'm an accountant, but I want to work in fashion, even being a stylist or a buyer. If I went to do a degree in fashion Design, I'd be 37 when I graduated. I'm really depressed, thinking I've blown it. So she's from Milano in Italy. And the very interesting thing about that is I always look at what people aren't saying as well as what they are saying. And here I've noticed, Francesca, that you've never said outright, I want to be a fashion designer. Like already in your mind, as soon as it comes out of your mouth, or as soon as it gets committed to an email, you are kind of downgrading it and saying, well, you know, I'll settle for being a stylist or a buyer. But the fact that you're talking about doing a degree in fashion design shows that that's what you really want to do. You want to do fashion design. One of the things we're going to be talking to our guests about is the fact that younger people have a lot of different avenues, a lot of different ways of getting into something. They don't presume you've got to go and be in college for years or that you are. You have to be the thing that you've trained for. But just to start that idea going, first of all, we've got to commit to what is it that you really, really want. And very often as people get older, they start to downgrade the dream. And by downgrading the dream, they will. So they'll start off with a vision for what their relationship can be, and then they'll say they'll start to settle a little bit and they'll start to compromise on this, and they'll start to think, oh, this person, he or she hasn't shown yet. So I'm gonna, you know, take that off the list. And the same thing then for our careers. You know, if you were 18 and you knew absolutely you wanted to be a fashion designer, then you would just go for that and you would just look for the best way to do that. But already, because you're saying that you've left it a little bit later, you're compromising and you're saying, you know what? I want to, you know, I'll be happy with being a stylist or a buyer, just being around it, just having what Julia Cameron would call a shadow career. And that's not good enough in this lifetime, we've got to say, you know, while you're still here on the planet, you get to be exactly who you want to be and do exactly what you want to do. One woman I really, really admire is called Mimi Kirk. K I R K Mimi lives in around California. I forget if it's California or Arizona. And she is a woman who is in her late 70s and she's vegan and she is just so gorgeous. And she's a nutritionist. She talks to people about how to stay young. Her boyfriend is 20 years younger than her. And she can really say that she doesn't allow that to stop her. Her posture is amazing. Her outlook, more importantly, is Absolutely incredible. So, yeah, let's start thinking about this. Let's start thinking about in what ways have you downgraded your life? Do you need to take on more of a mindset of an 18 or 25 year old? What is it that you need to do? So that's what we're talking about here today on WRS women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. From next week you will be able to call in live to the show we are broadcasting live. 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Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming Donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, head of business development at women's radio station Radio Advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, Please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. And welcome back. I'm Judy Mae Murphy here on WRS women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. And today we are hearing what it is that you have to say all about aging. Are you happy with your age? Do you feel like your age goes against you or do you see it as a plus? Do you think that it goes for you in some areas and then goes against you in others? Or do you just feel like, hey, you know what, it's just a reality and I've got to get on with it? Here in studio today, we have two young women who I learn a lot from and just absolutely adore. So first of all, we have Dina Hassanein, who is a young person's presenter and she's also the host of Teen Talk here on wwrs. And the thing that I really liked about the first time that she and I met was the fact that she just sort of seems to take it in her stride. I remember being struck with this idea of, wow, when I was 25, I was not that cool. So how do you feel, Dina, about being 25? Do you see yourself as a 25 year old or. Well, I love that you think I'm cool because I think I'm not cool now that I'm 25. So that's made me really happy. I think being 25, I'm not so much fixed on the number. I'm more fixed on what have I got to show for the 25 years that I've been on earth? I've always kind of thought I want to make a mark. And I think it's trying to find where I want to make that mark. So for me, it's more what am I doing and what's the future going to hold so that I actually can make an impact? And do you have a Certain idea in your head like, you know, I have to be a millionaire by 30 or I have to like. It used to be that women would talk about that they wanted to be married and have a certain number of kids by the time they were a certain age. I remember one time this woman being in floods of tears at a party because it was her 30th birthday the next day and she was single and, and she was just literally inconsolable. Do you have that feeling that there are certain things you have to have done by a certain time? I did about two years ago and I really kind of saw myself in a negative way because obviously you see the people around you more so because of social media as well, who are moving in with their partners and, you know, getting promotions and moving abroad and obviously everybody moves at a different pace. And I think when you're young and you've got that in your head that by this age I, I need to have got married, had children, have my house by the beach, be a millionaire. And obviously you grow up and you see that reality is a lot more different. I did used to hate myself for that and think, oh, what am I actually going to achieve? But now I see more of this journey and realize that when you're young you think everything's possible and there's no time scale. When you're young you think that everything's going to be achieved as soon as possible. Excellent. And our other young person that we have here is Elspeth Proudlock. And Elspeth is 18 years old. And when I first met Elspeth I thought she was a lot, lot older. So I was kind of blown away. And Elspeth, you say that a lot of people think that about you. Why do you think that is that so many people read you as being much older than you are? Yeah, an awful lot of people think that about me. I think it's more where I am. I'm not doing the typical 18 year old stuff. I'm not at university, I'm not doing an apprenticeship or anything like that. I'm in the world of work and I just, I'm going for it. Yeah, because you've already got a couple of parts on movies. Yeah, I've done some small short movies. I did one with Martin Gooch recently. He's a BAFTA award winning director and I did a small little film with him and had a small part, but it was a really good experience and I loved it to pieces. And because you just left school last June and moved up to London and Just sort of said, I'm going for it, I'm going to be an actor, I'm going to be going for it. And, well, that's really interesting to me because that's something that would have been a very difficult thing to make, the decision to not go to college. So I was going to College in the mid-80s, and back then, if you came from a background where people were educated and where the expectation was that you would go to college, and you went to very fancy school, and so most of your classmates, if I understand correctly, would have gone on to college. What was it like? Did you feel like, you know, wow, if I don't do this now, I might never do it? Or what was your thinking behind taking such an adventure at 18? Oh, my gosh, I could hardly even do my own laundry at 18. I'm so impressed with this. I still can't do my laundry. But, no, it's when I decided I didn't want to go to university when I was 15 years old. And when you're 15, you get asked the question, what GCSEs are you doing? And then two seconds later, are you doing IB or A level? Then what university? What degree do you want to do? This affects everything. And you're just there like, oh, my goodness, I have no idea. And I remember just going through random jobs. I knew I wanted to be an actress deep down, but I kept saying to my parents stuff like, oh, I'll be a midwife, I'll be this. But I noticed I wasn't good at biology and I really didn't care about those career choices I was saying I was going to make. And then I just kind of went, oh, academia is not my thing. Like, it's not. I'm much more of a practical, creative person. And sitting down, doing tests back to back just wasn't me. And, yeah, no, I just. I turned to my parents, I said two days before I left for London, which was a bit mad. I just said, I'm moving to London, I'm running away to London. I'm running away. And they just kind of went, okay, we'll see you in about a month. When you realize this is a mistake. When the laundry piles up. Yes. When? When, yeah, pretty much. Do you find. And did you find, particularly in that moment, did you find that people who were older were presuming that they knew better? Because my take is always, you are the expert on you. No matter how old you are, you're the one who's actually experiencing what it's like to be you. And therefore, no matter what advice comes in that, you know, that needs. Particularly when you hit 18, you need to override all that or, you know, take it on board and choose what you'll accept and reject. But did you find that you were surrounded by a lot of people who presumed that they knew better for you simply because they were older? Yeah, 100%. I didn't tell any of my friends at school, so nobody in my year at school knew. I was doing only a couple here and there, but in general, nobody knew. So I didn't have opinions from people my own age. But I would tell teachers because I would think they do know. Best teacher is a teacher at the end of the day. And they were just got a lot of kind of, oh, well, you'll change your mind and you'll, you know, kind of like, you'll learn, you'll learn and. Cause they all, for obvious reasons, have got degrees in what they teach. So I, Yeah, I kind of noticed. I did tell people, when I told teachers, they. Now I look back on it, I'm like, obviously they would say, go get a degree. And I got all sorts of things like, you could be a dog walker. That was one of them. I could be a primary school teacher. Which I was like, okay. And then, yeah, I just kind of went, nope, none of that's for me. And off I trot to London. Gosh, that's. That's just so inspiring because I think, because I know women who, you know, would be, you know, 50, 60 years old and still would have a challenge with saying, this is what I want. I know it's the unpopular thing to do, I know no one else is doing it, but I know deep down that this is right for me. Dina, how about you? Would you. Do you see women who are older, do you see them as authority figures or do you see them as someone you have to rebel against? Or how do you take it when you're given sort of quite heavy advice and almost with this tone of, you know, we know better because we've been on the planet for longer. I think it really depends where you are in your life. So if you're a kind of doubting phase where you just don't believe in yourself or you feel lost. So, for example, the decision to just, you know, go to London and become an actress, that must have been really difficult. And for me, I know I've always wanted to be a presenter and I've never had the conversation. I always talk to my mum about everything, but I've Never had that conversation and said, mum, I really want to present, because she's always encouraged, you know, get your degree and do something academic and progress and get a master's, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. They want the best of you. But I think it took me so long to be open and say what I wanted to do, because until you trust in yourself, you will always listen to other people. Obviously not so much for you, but for me, I didn't really believe in myself as much. So if I were to kind of take advice from another woman who was older than me, I would definitely take advice on what they say because they've been on the planet longer and they know what's best and. And how would that advice be best delivered? Because I'm sure if it's sort of delivered with a hammer and you're being told, do this or you will die, that perhaps it's easier to. To reject it, or sometimes easier to succumb and feel resentful. So how do you. How do you like sort of the. The wisdom of the elders to be delivered? Is there a certain way that you like it to be said? Yeah, a conversation and just actually listening to what I'm saying? Yeah. I completely understand that. Everyone's raised differently and they've had different experiences that shape their lives. So a conversation with one person about the same thing will look completely different to another. But if ever, and anyone who knows me knows how argumentative I can get, somebody told me what I have to do. It's completely different conversation to one where you're trying to listen to what I want and help me, I think it's completely different. I'm sure that's the same with everyone. Yeah. And also a really interesting thing is that looking at it from 50, when I look back now to when I was a teenager and when I was in my 20s, a lot of what I was doing wasn't sort of the practical thing to do. I did go to university, but I was studying drama studies, which was a very. It was a very new course. There was. I'd been no graduates when I went there, and it was very untried. And the amount of people who said, why don't you just go and get an English degree and a teaching degree and you'll have something to fall back on. But now when I look at, like, the crazy stuff I did, I ended up, you know, running away to New York and hanging out with drag queens in the east village in my 20s and being in shows with them and learning to dance. On Broadway and all this stuff and I look at the women who thought they would do it later and they don't do it. Same for traveling. By the time I was 30, I'd been to about 30 different countries. I've been to 50 now, so it looks like I'm doing one new one a year, which is not too bad. But at the time I'd been to 30 different countries, including going to Moscow in 1990 when it was still part of the Soviet Union. And these things now, when you look back, you can't, I can't be a 19 year old or a 25 year old again. Being that you have to do it right now. So just really quickly, can you think of one thing that you have done that you sort of say, yeah, you know what, I'm really glad I've got that done. Just quitting teaching and getting into presenting. So happy. Brilliant. Yeah. And Elspeth, is there anything that you thought just, just going for it, just, just get following my heart. Yeah, absolutely. Great stuff. Because that's the one thing that a lot of women when they get older they sort of think, yeah, you know what, I, you know, I regret what I didn't do and not what I did. Not sure if that applies to relationships in quite the same way. But anyway, let's discuss that a little bit more right after these here on WRS Women's radio station. The voice of women worldwide. Women's radio station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. 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Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 07-95637-1483 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. And today we're talking about aging, youth and aging, being a certain age as a woman. Here on women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. I'm Judy Mae Murphy and with me in studio we have Elspeth Dina and we're talking about how it's different for younger women. You're a professional young people now today, and we know it's different and we have all these cliches about, oh, young people these days, they're just online all the time. And I'm just wondering, you know, is there something that's really great about being young at the moment? Because it seems to me that you, that you have more options than we had. That, you know, and even the generation before, I know, my mother's generation, Ireland, you had to get married. Like it was just presumed that you would get married and have kids. Even if, like my mom, she, you know, had a career as a doctor. Even my grandmother was a doctor. My grandmother actually went in the early 1950s. She went off for two years and worked in Africa, in Nigeria, worked in the Middle of the jungle, you know, as part of a mission, outreach, healing people. So I come from quite a long line of quite adventurous women and very career minded women. But even for them, there was this assumption that you wouldn't do it without being married and you wouldn't do it without having kids. So for my generation then we had the option and I knew that I didn't want to have kids. I knew that it wouldn't be fair to drag kids into the crazy whirlwind that is my existence. And I'm just wondering, how do you see that progressing? How do you see women's freedom developing now, Ellsworth? Well, especially looking at like online and stuff like that. I'd say women, I don't know how to say it, but like women definitely have more of a platform. Yeah. A platform to speak on now. And it's social media definitely is a new thing. Even though it's been around for many years, it definitely is a new thing. And so who would you admire who would say would be a young person that you would. A young woman that you would see as being really awesome on social media? Well, there's a girl who's also my age who is Joanna Cedia, who is from Canada, I think, and she is still at school and she started her YouTube channel this summer and she's already got 1.5 million subscribers. Wow. She doesn't say anything inspirational. She's not there to motivate people, but she is. She's vlogging her day. She's just vlogging her day. And it just shows that. It's like you can just if you know you can do anything if you just pick up. All she did was pick up her phone and just start recording herself. And you know, it's crazy what she has achieved already. And do you think at 18 that she'll be able to handle that? Because that's a lot of attention and that's a lot of focus on you. Do you think that that can actually warp your development? That maybe it might have been better a few decades ago where you had to really grow and develop and mature and then when you had spent more time earning your following by that stage you could handle it? Or does it seem like she's already just pretty good with what she's doing? She's good at what she's doing now, but she is very new and it may change. You see a lot of YouTubers when they become big and everything, life's great and then they disappear for a while and they come back and they say, I'm struggling. So she might just do that. She might be great at doing everything. But you do see a lot of traits with YouTubers. They disappear after their massive success, and they come back and they say, I was struggling. And online, it's a very difficult new world. Not many people have. There's nowhere to hide, really. Like, especially if you're doing something like she's doing. Sounds like she's doing vlogs, and she is pretty much saying, hey, this is my life. Come on in. I mean, gosh, I'm just horrified. If I think about anybody even walking into my bedroom, let alone my whole life. When I was 18 years old, I just. I'm not sure I would have survived that. Not sure they would have survived. Survive that either. Dina, how do you feel about that? Yeah, I think, obviously coming from a background as a teacher and really, really interested in child development and how young people develop, when I see people blow up at that age, I get so worried about them, specifically girls, only because you're so. What's the word? You're just so easily molded by what people say. You haven't really figured out who you are and how you see yourself. And when you put yourself online like that, I really worry about them because, yes, they might have loads of followers and subscribers, but I guarantee you their focus will shift to, oh, that person called me fat. Oh, that person called me stupid. And that's what sticks. And as you said, they do disappear. So many beauty bloggers as well, they. They disappear and they come back and they say, guys, I'm struggling. This is really difficult. And it is. I mean, it's great that women and everyone can have a voice and can put themselves out there, but I think at that young age, it's so delicate and so risky. It's interesting that you mentioned beauty bloggers, because this is the thing that I've noticed is that women who are a little bit older, sort of in their 40s and 50s, the kind of things that we tend to focus on and that we put online are things like psychology and narcissism and co dependence and healing and spirituality. And it seems to me that then much younger women seem to focus more on the surface. Is that something that. Am I just reading that wrong? I'm not saying that younger women aren't interested in kind of going a little bit deeper, but there does seem to be an inordinate number of beauty bloggers. I actually agree with what you're saying. I've specifically unfollowed so many beauty bloggers because after a while all my newsfeed was, buy this, buy this, buy this. And it's like, oh, I don't really care about this stuff. Let's see what's happening. I don't know, in the Middle east, for example. And even after unfollowing so many beauty bloggers on my Explore page, I still get loads of beauty bloggers popping up. It's almost as if they're telling me, you need to be interested in this. And don't get me wrong, if I'm going out, of course I care about makeup and I want to look nice. I think everybody wants to look presentable. But I do feel that at this young age we have to care about how we look all the time. It's all we see. And I am actually quite sick of it. Yeah. The interesting thing is that than for a lot of older women who aren't focused in that way, because there wasn't that same kind of pressure before to look incredible, to look like you were just ready to step onto the COVID of magazine. You know, you just. You wanted to look as good or a little bit better than the people actually in the room with you at the time, not the whole world. Online, I mean, that the competition is now huge. Do you feel that competition yourself or do you feel it amongst your friends elsewhere? I think it's going back to the online beauty bloggers. It's a completely different mindset online because you don't have the context. There's not that kind of softness with voice. Where I was at work one time and I thought, one day I won't wear foundation. And I got a ton of comments just being like, oh, you look really tired. I got one from one boy, which I still laugh about saying, oh, you need to visit a dermatologist because he saw that I had acne. I just rolled my eyes and thought that was quite funny. It's become a joke, my friends, but it's online. If someone said that you don't have the context and it does affect you completely differently, if I read that, I would be like, oh, that's quite mean. And I pile on the foundation powder and everything. But in person, you. You don't take that guy so seriously. Perhaps you know that he's not, he's the kindest person or you know him or you know that he didn't mean it mentally or badly. Yeah, alright. So, yeah, so context is a thing. Context is definitely a thing. But in regards to competition with people around me, I would say online there is that kind of Competition of, oh, I want to look the prettiest in this post. And, you know, I want to have the most comments. Comments is something that people always mentioned to me because I always thought I'm not that big on Instagram and whatnot. So I always thought people just really wanted likes. But a girl said to me, she went, I would rather have 30 comments rather than. And fewer likes rather than thousands of likes. And about three comments. Wow, that's interesting. So it's almost as if she can only see herself through comments that she's only seen. She only exists when people validate that by saying, hey, I see that you are this. I, you know, I think that you're awesome. So do you think that for a lot of younger women these days that they are looking for their sense of self, whereas maybe in previous generations, the mistake we were making was looking for our sense of self and validation through marriage and kids? That maybe these days women are looking for their sense of self and validation through comments? Yeah, I think people are trying to find validation through their peers online. And, you know, people put a lot of effort into posting pictures. I do personally, I always want to look nice. But yeah, I think people do definitely want to hear that. Validation through comments through, you know, people their own age. It's less so. I mean, still is very prevalent, but the older generation trying to find validation with them, it's more my peers, everyone else around me. So we're still doing the thing as women of, like me, am I okay, see me, am I visible, you know, reassure me, Am I getting this life right? Whereas before it used to be done maybe through, you know, your social circle or. In fact, I was going through loads of photographs from the 30s, 40s and 50s over the weekend because I inherited all the photographs of my grandmother. And it was amazing how there was that same kind of social signaling going on. It just was done in a different way. It was done with your 21st birthday party or your engagement party being in a particular society magazine. So it sounds as if just the vehicle has changed. But the sort of the maybe the emptiness, maybe the longing is something that we share throughout the generations and that maybe we need to just be a little bit more supportive of each other in that rather than us older women just dismissing it, saying, oh, they don't care. They're surface. All they care about is how they look. And maybe for younger women sort of saying, oh, well, you know, we've got broader horizons, we're more interesting, we're into travel, and we're not just into our families that maybe we can understand that the need that we're trying to meet as women is coming from that same place. So what we're going to be talking about after the break is what is it that we can do as women of different ages to support each other? Are we creating tribe of just our peers? As Elspeth says, that tends to be the thing that people do. Or is there really going to be a good benefit in surrounding yourself with women of different ages as friends, not necessarily as authority figures or not necessarily in order to mentor them, but just having it the way it would have been naturally in a village kind of situation where we're just there for each other and our different energies are filling each other out, building us up. Back soon, Voice of Women Worldwide. This is Women's Radio Station. 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Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, head of business development at women's radio station. Radio Advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-5637, 1483 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. And welcome back to women's Radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. Today on Judy May is listening, we are talking about aging, about youth and aging and what it's like being a woman in the world at whatever age you are now. What's different? We have our two experts. We have Dina and Elspeth, who are 25 and 18 respectively, and they are giving us all kinds of insights. I think we're really working out that we have a lot more in common than we know. One thing I'd really love to know is how do you feel relationships are different now from the way that they were because again, with my, say, my grandmother's, my mother's generations, they just didn't have a choice. You just chose someone either in college or in your early 20s and that was it for life. That was your choice made. Whereas now you can just keep choosing all through your life if that's what really works for you. But how do you feel that the whole dating scene and relationships are different now for women? I think, in all honesty, I've never tried online dating, so I'm not a pro or any. I wouldn't even know how it works. But from the stories I hear from my friends, women have more control, but they also have more exposure to some weirdos as well. And I think sometimes online dating isn't necessarily a way that you can match and find your person. And I think what's great is women do have more control and more power to think, no, if this isn't right for me, then I'm not going to compromise, which is great. But I think when it comes to online dating, it has made it more difficult in some cases for women to kind of find that partner. And I'm guessing maybe Back in the day, men were a bit more committed or maybe thought, actually this could be my wife. And I think the perspective now is completely different. This could be my girl for a day and then I'll go to the next date. But it seems as if that's not as big a problem, as big a problem as someone from my mother's generation with. When my mother passed away, I went and visited the nurses in the hospital she'd been in, the clinic she'd been in, and they were really wonderful. Just wanted to go back a few weeks later and thank them. And every single one of them separately said, oh, your mother's greatest regret was that she never got to see you married, she never got to see you settled. I'm like, oh, wow. So obviously in my mother's mind that was a really important thing, but that's never been important in my mind. Do you find that it's a vitally important thing now for you to be in relationship, or do you find that women of your generation are a little bit more laissez faire about it? They're just sort of like, well, if I do, I do, and if I don't, I don't. I think that's such a general question. It really depends on what your goals are in life. I know friends that don't care, I know friends that prioritise it. And I think it really depends on where you find the self worth and where your life is headed. So if for you, you really want to have children and settle down, have a family, then I think it will be their priority. But if you're career focused and want to achieve different things, it might be something that takes a back seat. I think it might. We have choice now. Maybe back then they didn't have the choice. Maybe women would have married later if they could, but I feel now it's still the same. But the difference is that women have a choice. They can decide when it happens and if it happens. And also when it comes to having kids, we have a lot longer that we can healthfully, happily have kids. And we know that we don't have a limiting belief about, you know, oh my gosh, by the time I'm 40, that's it, my eggs are gonna shrivel up. And, you know, and having kids, biologically, that's the only way to do it. We're not doing that anymore. There's a really great book by Bettina Gordon all about having, having kids in your 40s. And she got pregnant with her son. I think she was like 43. And she did it naturally as well. It's not the case that you have to have massive medical intervention in order to, to give birth naturally at a later age. So I imagine that the pressure is off there as well. And how about you, Elspas, because at the grand age of 18, 200 years ago, you would by now be an old maid. But how are you feeling about the whole relationships thing? Do you think that there's more or less pressure on you, different pressure on you? No pressure at all. How do you feel about the whole dating scene? I think for 18 year olds now there definitely is less pressure. For me personally, I might be wrong with other people, but my, my grandmother always, as a joke, when we were much younger, she'd always say to me, my siblings, oh, have you got a boyfriend? Have you got a girlfriend? I would always be like, no, I'm only eight. And she would just be like, okay, we'll find you a husband one day. But now she always says to me, she goes, no, you don't need to get married. You don't, you know, just be happy in yourself. And my parents, they couldn't care less if I got married. If I didn't get married. They'd just be happy if I was happy so I could be. I'm quite comfortable with the thought of being 60 years old, never married, maybe never even had a boyfriend or something like that. No, no kids. As long as I'm happy. It's not a focus that, you know. No, no, it's not a focus in my head that I'm. If that brings you happiness and growth, all well and good, but otherwise it's not a necessity. No. Yeah, I'm just, yeah, it's just, I find someone. I find someone. It's just so great because I remember at your age just being absolutely crippled with anxiety because my mother met my father in their first year in college and I was getting to the end of my undergraduate degree. Sorry, at the end of the first year of my undergrad, my freshman year, and I was panicking that I hadn't yet met the husband, met the man I was going to marry. And I very nearly did, simply because I was going to be just following in my mother's footsteps. I thought that that was the thing to do and that's how you sort of stayed in tribe. And interestingly, you were talking about, you know, your grandmother saying that to you about, do you have a boyfriend? I knew this lady, a distant family member who lived to the age of 99 and every single time she met me, she would ask me the question, now, do you bake? And I just thought, she's saying a lot more. She doesn't like. She asked me about my baking skills. But really what she is saying there and then is, have you woken up to what you really should be doing? So she had her conviction and in her mind, I'm sure it was absolutely. These were the values to follow. This was the way to live, that if you can't make a home and be domestic, then you're really in trouble. And I'm sure that, you know, back when she was young, that unless you could do that, you would be in trouble on the planet, you wouldn't be safe on the planet. So I'm not thinking that she was particularly narrow, but I did think it was quite telling that that was always the question she led with. And every single time I would just be like, sometimes, but it's not a focus and just me replying, thank you, I hear you and I'm not choosing to be closed down by it and I'm just going to do my thing. But how do you feel about women creating tribe with women of other ages? Because I've always done that. So when I was in my 20s, one of my closest friends was a good 15 years older than me. And even to this day, my good friend Callie, who lives in Palm Springs, California, she's fantastic. She's. Gosh, she's in her late 70s now and she just broke her leg, bless her. So sending Callie loads of love. She might be listening live and she's someone who I just love being around because she's just got. She's been through so much and she's got a different view of things and we've, you know, spent time together in Florence and Italy and done all kinds of things together. So she's very much a friend. She's not. She's not a mentor, she's not a mother figure. She's very much a friend. And same with, you know, I've got a really good friend who I've known since she was 17 and I was, you know, about. Gosh, yeah, I'd have been about 40 at the time. And they're very much friends and I get a lot from them and it's very much an equal relationship. Do you ladies have that with other people or do you think that that will be something that will come later or do you see any benefit in it? I hope it definitely does come because I think the more variety you have in your friendship circles, the better, because you're never going to really learn or grow if you're constantly with the same people who think the same as you. You need to be challenged and it's really great to be able to learn from people. I don't have any older female friends at all. I think I'm the oldest of my female friends. That's interesting. What would you say if you were friends, say with friend Francesca, who wrote to us from Italy talking about that she wanted to change her career but she was scared that, you know, if she went and got a degree in fashion design now she'd be 37. If you were hanging out with her, do you think that you would be able to get her to shake free from that idea? I would make it my mission. I feel like you are quitting whatever you're doing and you're going to university to do it because if you know what you want, you're already one step ahead of all those people that still don't know what they want to do in their lives. So the fact that she knows, I really think Francesca should go for it because 37, I mean, that's nothing. And that's so interesting because I'd say a lot of people around her are probably having the same doubts and fears as her. Oh, gosh, yes, you'll be 37 by the time you graduate. Oh, yes, that is. But you don't have those same fears because you're not yet 37. So you're able to bring something, something else to the table. Definitely, yeah. And Elspeth, what would you say to Louisa from Australia who's talking about that? You know, she believes that because she's 52. If you were hanging out with a 52 year old woman and she made a statement to you saying, oh, there's no way that these guys are going to go for me, what do you think that your 18 Ness would bring to the table for her personally? When I heard you say that, I was a bit like, oh, there definitely are men who are the same age, similar age who will be interested in you. I mean there's so many men that age group, they're not all thinking, ooh, 30 year olds, they're thinking broad mindedness. Every that's you'll find your, your match. I kind of feel I'm, you know, we'll all find people and whatnot and you know, so you haven't had maybe as much disappointment as she's had. So you don't have as much references for making your world and your possibilities smaller. You have references for no, it's all wide open because for you right now you're 18 and it is all wide open. I'm 18. I've had my heart broke. I've had this, that and the other. But I made sure you've broken a few hearts. Just a couple. But I'm, you know, everybody, this is, this, you'll still learn. Even if you were 80 years old in the dating scene, you're still gonna learn new things and whatnot. And yeah, you know, being, well, being the naive 18 year old me, I'm still gonna get my heartbroken and whatnot. I'm gonna learn quite a few lessons. But as you say, that can happen at any age and we just stay learning and we stay open and that, we really support each other in that. So, Elspeth and Dina, thank you so much for being our professional young people here on Women's radio station today on Judy Mae is Listening. As of next week, we're going to be taking live calls. You are listening live here to the show and just jot down the number really quickly. 0207-097-6677. And so as of next week, you're going to be able to call in live to the show and join in with this conversation because I really want to hear what's going on with you here on Judy Mae is Listening. Women's radio station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. We aim to show the individuality of every woman everywhere providing opportunities and a platform for your voice. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? 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