Judymay Is Listening – No More Going It Alone

Foreign. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome back. We are live on Monday. Monday, it's noon. It is time for Judy Mae is listening. I'm Judy Mae Murphy and what I do is I listen to what's going on in your life. And very often we can feel very alone. We can feel as if nobody really gets how hard we find it. Nobody really understands that we are concerned, you know, is the dream ever going to come true? Are things going to get better or are they just going to stay the same? And for many women it's that your life is in a really good place and, and you're just starting to wonder, can it get better? Have you plateaued? Is there this sort of invisible universal glass ceiling that you just are destined to live under? And I'm here to say that whatever you want in this lifetime, you can make it happen. And this starts with doing the inner work. Today we have an incredible guest. You're going to be meeting her in a few minutes. Her name is Kate Oliver and she is a creative entrepreneur and she is one of my go tos. She's somebody who that if I have something that needs to happen, I solve it. And by going to Kate very often. And we've got to do this as women. One of the things I did for years was to self isolate, to think that I had to be this like one woman army and I had just to just become as magnificent as I could become. And then I'd go out in the world and I'd show the world that I was worthy of belonging to it. And it's something that when you've had any kind of trauma, when you've had lots of disappointments, when you've just lived on the planet for a while, we can tend to go in that direction. Kate is wonderful because she's kind of the cure for that. She's a person who really gets the power of connecting with other people and it comes from a really great place because she delights in them first and foremost. Like whenever you hear Kate talking about a new person that she's met, the first thing that you notice is this great big grin on her face. Like she always looks as if she's just won the lottery because she's always met someone new who is really, really exciting her. And when we so often think that the excitement has to all come from us, that we have to get some kind of a breakthrough and then from that place, we will then be able to feel good. Whereas, in fact, all the inspiration as well as all the answers are around us in the form of other people. So how is it that we can start to make the most of that? I've got a couple of really great questions in, so we'll start off with those before I introduce you to Kate. And Claudia from Norwich says anytime I do get around people who are good at things, they just end up taking over. At my daughter's birthday party last week, you'd swear it was her daughter's party or even hers. The day did go really well. So I didn't want to say anything negative. Okay, so what you're saying there, Clodagh, is something that I think is really important for us to clear up, because it's a concern a lot of people will have, is that if you bring on board other people, if you start to use people in a collaborative way, that you might get ousted from your own position or from your own life. In your case, from your own daughter's birthday party. So the important thing to remember is that people have different levels of energy. Excuse me one second. We're all finding that we're a little bit coffee, a little bit like horse in studio today, so bear with us on that. But when we find that other people are approaching in a different way, maybe they have different levels of insistence or different levels of excitement, it can really feel as if we're being pushed back. And the person who's doing that might not know that. They might just think, okay, well, no one else is doing anything. Let me do this. Not realizing that other people have different processing times, that for other people, it takes more than two seconds for them to work out what to do. And if you're like me and you're someone who, you know, has the answer in a second and a half and has already got their sleeves rolled up, diving in there, we can look as if we're pushing you out of the way. So what is the answer for that? What is it that we can do? So, Kate Oliver, welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for having me, Judy May. So what would you say to that? Well, I had an interesting conversation actually, this morning with a good friend of mine, and I think there's several ways you can look at it. One of them is actually something I came across, and I've brought in a team to work on a project I'm in. And first of all, I read this email and I felt that everything was being taken over. And then when I thought about it and I spoke to the friend, he literally said, pick your fights. Do you actually want to get this done? So I actually took a step back and thought, how is this affecting me and what's important? So is it important to actually have an end goal to actually get the job done or to pick a fight and just for ego? So I think you've got to look at several different ways. One, did your child have an amazing party and did you get some help to de stress and get it done so you could go and have a cup of tea and take a moment aside? Good point. Or is it because you wanted all of the credit for everything? So one. Wow, that's so interesting. Usually we do that, don't we? We think we're going in wanting one thing, but actually we're often wanting more than one thing. And so what you're saying is that for Cloda, she probably got her primary goal, which was for her daughter to have an amazing birthday, but the secondary goal of feeling included feeling important or getting praise. We don't know quite where it's coming from, but that was the thing that wasn't met. Yeah, I agree. It's very hard as human beings to let go if it's our idea, if it's our child. My son Arthur had a birthday party yesterday, and I do understand where Claudia's coming from, but, you know, without help, you can take on so much and get stressed, get run down, get the colds that we've all had. Take the help. Enjoy the look, the look of genuine, like, release. When you said take the help, that. That was a mother's cry if ever I heard one. And I'm thinking that when we learn that lesson in one area, then it's quite easy for us to bounce it over to another area. That perhaps if there's something in work, if Clodagh runs her own business and she's been, you know, maybe looking to lead every aspect of it, if she can get good with sort of saying, okay, you've got that, and I will literally sit back with a cup of tea and enjoy the view, if that's what she wants, that then she can do that in her business as well. Absolutely. I think this is work in progress on everyone. And I am still learning about this and I still get a hell of a lot of this wrong. But what I'm trying to learn and what I'm trying to grow with is working out what I am good at and how to surround myself with the people who can complement my skills. And that comes into business. That comes into being a mother from the party yesterday. I can't bake a cake for the love of God. It would fall flat and have a disappointed child friend of mine. I'll make a Star wars stormtrooper cake for you. Wow, you've taken that off my hands. The smile on Arthur's face was amazing. Business wise, I'm very much the creative. Really love going to talk to people I struggle with. The accountants, the lawyers, the details. Yeah, the backroom stuff. Exactly. You've got it, Judy. Maybe. And that is so interesting because then there are other people who are really good at the backroom stuff. Really good at, you know, well, this is what happened, and this now goes here, and here's the accountability. And for them, they're sort of in awe of people like you who are able to just walk up to anybody on the planet and say, hi, I'm Kate Oliver. Who are you? That's so much fun, though. That's what I. Yeah, because it's your thing. Right. And the same thing for me, people will say, oh, you know, how can you sit and read a book for 12 hours? And for me, that's really fun, going in there and finding out the details and then weaving it into something else. Wish I had that. That I could sit down for 12 hours, I would lose. But don't we do that so often? We sort of discount the thing that we are really genius at that we're really, really good at, and we start thinking that there's something wrong with us, rather than thinking, well, we've built this up to an extraordinary extent, the thing that we're really good at. And somebody else in the meantime has built up their superpower to an extraordinary extent. So all we need to do is get together as women. And because we're less competitive by nature, so this cooperative way of being suits us. And now that we're running our own companies and not having to fit into a more patriarchal kind of corporate construct, we can do this. One of the most important things, and one thing you can't get back is time. And I think as women, we constantly try and do everything, and hopefully we're learning to step back and do this. But talking about books, one thing I've asked you several times, Judy, may I want to read a book? Which one should it be? I'm grateful for you because you've done your 12 hours reading and read about a million books a year. You can say, read this one, Kate. This is the one you'll like. That's the exact one, right? Yeah. And also I'll say things to people like, oh, yeah, well, this is who you want. You could read the book, but it's actually all in chapter three. So when we are able to tap into each other in this way, it's just extraordinary. Just what you said there about time, I thought was so interesting, because recently I've had a lot of occasions where mostly men, I have to say, have decided that they're going to take time to explain to me something that I already know. So, you know, one time there was this guy, quite recently there was this man who decided he was going to explain to me about dopamine in the brain. And he said, so dopamine is this. And he got it wrong. And I was. I. And I just was being polite. And so I said to myself, I'll give him two minutes. And then suddenly I realized, that's my two minutes. How did you feel after that conversation of two minutes? How did you walk away? I didn't wait the two minutes because I knew that I was gonna feel deflated. I knew I was gonna feel resentful. And resentment is always a. Is always a feeling that comes after we feel disempowered. So I just took my power back and I said, can I just stop you right there? I'm actually a bit of an expert on this, and I think you'll find. And I kind of did a little smarty pants thing and said, I think you'll find if you go to this, you know, reference, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and just sort of, like, blinded them with science for a moment and ran away. But I'm hoping to get more elegant at that and to stop trying to save other people's feelings. I agree. I think it's what I try and do. And again, it's all learning. And, yeah, I love people, but it's. How do you feel when you walk away from a conversation? How has that person made me feel? Am I walking away feeling, wow, I can take on the world today, or am I walking away feeling, oh, crap, I want to go and pull the duvet over my head. What the hell am I doing? And have you noticed that when we have that feeling of, oh, crap, I want to walk away and pull the duvet over my head? And we all know that feeling. Have you ever noticed that? Then we very often think, and how will I fix it? How will I make them more pleased with me for the next time? Rather than, how will I save my time and energy the next time? Absolutely. It's human nature. I think we all do it. Let's try not to. Yes. Let's not do that anymore. As a tribe. As a tribe, the Judy Mays Listening tribe. As a WRS tribe. Let's do, let's not do that anymore. Let's not allow other people to take our energy and waste our time under the guise of politeness. As women, we're always praised for being polite and I think that doesn't really serve us. I think everyone wants to have their point of view. Everyone thinks that their voice is important and it is. But maybe not the right voice for you to be around at the moment for what you're trying to achieve as career, growth, as a person. Wonderful. We'll be talking more about boundaries, time, people, energy, everything with Kate Oliver right after this. Welcome to the women's radio station Supporting women's well being. 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Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station can give voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programmes, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome back. This is Judy Mae Murphy and my guest in studio today is the creative entrepreneur Kate Oliver. And we were speaking to Claudia from Norwich earlier on about this incident that she had where she felt like someone took over her daughter's birthday party. And we were making the point that, you know, as Kate said, take the help. And also we have to realize that when we're around people, it's very important for us to communicate our expectations. So if there was something particular that you wanted to do, Clodagh, such as, you know, I wanted to be the ones to bring in the one to bring in the birthday cake and be in that picture of me, my son, blowing out the birthday candles, or, sorry, in your case, your daughter blowing out the birthday candles or whatever it is that is very, very important to you. Let people know ahead of time. Most people are reasonable and they'll let that happen. So if someone say, for example, if I'm bringing someone up on stage and I'm doing it deliberately because I know that I get a lot of stage time and other people don't and I say to them, what do you want to get out of this? And they say, well, what I really want to get out of it is I want to get a photograph. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I really need to see. Stand right to the side so it looks like it's just you on the stage at least for five seconds, right? And they'll go, that'd be amazing. Thank you. And then, you know, we just work out what Is it that you really want to get out of this? And sometimes, especially if we identify as being more codependent, less good at voicing our needs and wants, less good at identifying our needs and wants, we can not take care of that part of it. And then that can encourage us to want to do everything alone, because then at least we know that everything's going to be taken care of. But people do want to support you. And if you don't have references for that, that's where you need to get around really great women and build those references. So the second question that we have is from Bindi in Paris. Hello, Bindi. Hello, Bindi. Thank you very much for writing in. And some of you are asking, by the way, how do you find out what the theme is going to be? I just put it up on my Facebook and I usually just put it up once or twice during the week. So do check in on my Facebook wall and you'll see it there as long as loads of other fun stuff. And Bindi says, I took on a PA for a while, a personal assistant for a while last year as I have too much on my plate. But I found that it took me more time to explain and check what it did than it would have to do it myself. So now I'm back to square one. Well, first of all, Bindi, as you know, on the show, we're always pulling each other up on our language. We are never, ever back to square one if we're telling ourselves that we feel like we have wasted our time. You've learned something. So what is it that you've learned? You've actually learned that it takes time to explain to people what it is that you want and to teach them what it is that they need to do. Of course it's going to take a little bit longer, but that doesn't mean that it's always going to be that way. I've recently taken on board a great videography team and we spent ages, way too long. We spent a couple of days editing quite a short video. But it was magnificent because we all knew that what we were doing there was they were learning what I wanted and I was learning how they need to hear that. And so we know that the next four videos will probably be done in a day. So please don't feel that, you know, having other people around you is always going to be slower. Kate, would you agree with that? Absolutely. I'd also feel that it's change if it's your first time having a page kind of working out what that relationship is and maybe kind of working out if you want things a certain way, spending the time yourself on the outset, writing an outline, how you would do it and then giving the tests and gradually introducing more kind of work to do. And I've had amazing PAs over the years where they've let me know that, you know, yes, I'm happy to do it your way. And may I make a suggestion? Here's something that I think might work better because. And staying open for that. Absolutely. Or he. She might not be the right person for you. Very good point. If it's your first time having a pa, it is trial and error. Nothing wrong with that at all. Oh, let me tell you about my first pa Tiny little story here because it just, it shows you how you can get things really, really badly wrong and then you can turn it around and get it really, really right. She was a girl who had English as a second language. And I was really proud of the fact that I was supporting that. But I should have chosen someone who had some. She really couldn't communicate at all. So a lot of the work that I needed her to do, she just quite simply couldn't do. And then, bless her, she spent so much of her time rather than doing the quite simple data entry that I had her doing, she spent a lot of her time looking at these fashion blogs. And I felt like I didn't want to be rude to her. And so sometimes I'd walk in, I'd catch her on the fashion blogs and I'd walk out as if, you know, I'd walked in on my parents having sex or something. I mean, it was just, it was just so, so wrong that I felt like I had to not embarrass her. That I felt that I couldn't even say, here's your job, you should be doing your job. I was so scared of the wrong person leaving. And I've done that in business situations and I've done that in relationships that. So I just love what you said right there. Maybe they're not the right person for you. And as women, particularly if we have this sort of inbuilt from childhood fear of being left, fear of abandonment, we, we've got to make sure that we really get over that and say no. We want the wrong person to walk away and we even want the not great person to walk away, the person who's okay, we often want them to walk away as well so that we can make room for the great. I think there's one thing I feel really strongly about is that you have to go through the crap to actually appreciate it when it's good. So I think it's really important to go through the experience of having people around you that aren't necessarily the right person for the job or the right person in the personal life, because unless you go through that, you won't actually be able to figure out who the right one is. So I think, great, you've had the right wrong person for you, and there's a hell of a lot of people out there in the world. The world is big, so don't waste the time on that person. Oh, and I tell you, I just so appreciate my staff now. You have no idea. They're brilliant as well. I'll take that. Thank you. So what would you say is the big opportunity that most women miss? Because I see you all the time, Kate, and you are around extraordinary people, and you're often, you know, introducing them to each other. And the thing that really strikes me about that is you don't seem to have any scarcity around your contacts. Some people are kind of like, you know, it's almost like they're clinging so tight to their contacts that they squeeze the life out of them. But you are constantly saying, oh, my gosh, this is the person that you need. And then I'll get a call from someone saying, kate Oliver said that we should talk. And I'll always. That message will always be replied to immediately because it's like, yes, yes, it is. Do you think that we do have scarcity about contacts? This idea of, you know, networking as if. As if there was some kind of scarcity of brilliance out there in the world when there isn't. I think there's so many people out there, I think, for me, and I don't want to talk for anyone else, because it's what works for me. But I suppose my biggest passions in the world are people and problems. To actually spot something that's going on in the world, or business scarcity of either of those things and then putting the right people around to solve them. That's what I love. If I want to meet someone, I have no fear in picking up a phone, working out my network, how to meet them. At the end of the day, what is someone going to say? No, don't be scared of that. Talk about that. Because a lot of people do feel scared about that. They do feel that it's rejection. They kind of go into a shame spiral when someone says no. Or even when someone doesn't reply to an email or a Phone call. So what do you do if someone either doesn't reply to you when you put out a request or when someone comes back to you with no, or even when they come back to you with no? How dare you. One thing I always love, I would always love a fast no, rather than someone wasting time and saying, well, think about it. Well, think about it. Because if you get a fast no, which everyone get like everyone gets a no, then you can move on. And you haven't used that brain space or what have you to actually hope. And I think the worst thing is the hope that something might happen that can take up so much energy. Can it? Too much, too much and it goes. There are so many brilliant people around, so many women and just find them, you know, go and talk to people or give it's practice. I think the more you do it, the more you realize, you know what, it's okay. So a lot of people will be saying, okay, I hear you, I want to do that. And I've tried to do it online, but it's not working because I see so many women's groups online and everybody is just praising each other for their projects and nobody's making any money and it really breaks my heart, but I see you actually out in the world. Do you think it's important to physically get around people? I absolutely feel that. I believe that having a 25 second connection with someone can make someone remember, you just make someone smile or you find one thing in common and you can, if you're with someone, then it's much easier than through a blank email. And also, I think too many people send emails, they go back and forth, back and forth, pick up the phone because that's like to hear a voice is much better than a generic email which they might be getting 20, 30, 50 through a day. And then the inbox is there and it's like, oh God, I can't deal with that. Everyone's allergic to their inbox, right? So like nowadays I only look at my emails maybe two or three times a day at set times, so I can get on with work in the others. So if you, when, if you're looking at set times, like a lot of CEOs as such that I know are, it's like they'll look through the names that they know and then generic kind of other emails just forgotten about. So if a woman is starting from scratch and she says, right, I've decided I'm going to go out there, as Kate Oliver is saying, and I'm going to get around great women. And I'm going to realize that what I do is a missing piece for someone else. Where do they start? Where are these places? It's probably not the Starbucks down the street from you. Well, actually I have met quite a few people in coffee shops, bus stops and everywhere. Maybe it's the Welsh in me that talk to anyone. I think it's find something that interests you and not necessarily work wise. But if you like going to the gym, go to the gym, strike up a conversation, oh, that was a really hard class or kind of on the treadmill or whatever you're doing in a positive space. And then it's not always looking for something from someone, it is about that connection. But if someone likes you and this happens a lot, they will generally want to help and so you can tell them what's going on and then they'll say, oh, I know that person. So it feeds out. So the person you meet in a room or wherever that might be a networking event or a festival or what have you, it's not about finding the connection that might be right for the moment, it's about building the network that might be right for the future. That is genius. So it's not about going out there and saying, I've got this specific problem right now, I'm going to solve it. Okay, I talked to that person, they don't have the answer. I've talked to that person, they don't have the answer. I've talked to that person, they don't have the answer. I'm now going home. But it's about that habit of daily getting out there and connecting with people so that when new problems do come up, that you have a network and somebody is either going to know the answer themselves or they will know someone who does. 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That's womensradio STN or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. And transforming everything starts with the inside, starts with the realization that you're not helpless, that things can change. They can change radically and immediately. One of the ways that we're going to be doing that today, all of us listening to Kate Oliver. We're going to be talking to people. We're going to start really building those networks. A question that I have for you, Kate, and then, you know, I'd like to find out what our lovely associate producer Elspeth thinks about this. But a question that I have is, do you have to look at the quality of where a person's at? Obviously, everyone has intrinsic worth. There's no one person on the planet is better than another. But people do have just certain levels of either education or agreeability. Or is that something that you look to? Or do you just. Absolutely not. No, you just let everyone in the filter. I love talking to everyone because that creates ideas and then you know what is going on in the world. One thing I feel very strongly about is if you surround yourself with people who might fit in your bracket, if you like, wouldn't the world be dull? And you would not, you would never, ever, ever get an understanding on as many humans as possible. And I don't want to see a society or anything like that where just one could go on. A massive thing about diversity here. A big passion of mine, but I do not. Oh, something that we talk about all the time on the show. Oh, no, we haven't got enough time today. That would be a completely separate one. But it's about. No, surround yourself with as many people as possible. And that might be. One of my best people to talk to is the man who's in the stall at the end of the bar in his 90s, who's got his own stall and the stories that he's saying. Because you're hearing historically and learning to the CEOs of big global FTSE 500 companies, as many people as possible, and you'll find connections. Don't be scared. Everyone's human. Everyone goes to the toilet. It's just go out and speak. Wonderful. I love it. Elspeth, as someone who is younger, we always make use of the youth voice of the program. Do you find it because we hear that millennials find it harder to actually speak to each other because you grew up with social media. Do you think that's true or do you think that you guys are actually good at talking to each other? I would say yes. With social media, it has created a lot more insecurities. So you do feel. I mean, I don't know. Otherwise, I kind of feel like everybody grew up feeling insecure about their bodies. You know, how they look, they're not prettier than the girl next door sort of thing. But with social media I think it did amplify that. And what about when it comes to connections? Do you feel like you're maybe you guys are better or worse at connecting than us slightly older women are? I'm not sure I would say people. People are people and you do. Besides from social media you will always meet people. I personally was quite shy growing up. You know, when I came to London I really did feel like I could happily not meet anyone here and just be silent for the rest of my life. But that got kicked out of me. I think that's brilliant. Sorry to interrupt there. I absolutely love that you will be scared, but what you did, what you had the balls to do, is to actually get here and do it. And the more times you do that, the confidence will grow and everyone has been there. So I want to give you a round of applause for actually doing it and following to get your ass and to come to London. So making me blush. So what would you like to learn from Kate? What do you think Kate might be able to teach you? Definitely the what I say. We're very similar. Literally what you just said about everybody goes to the toilet. That's why I got grown. I got told that growing up that everybody bleeps and breathes just like you. So. But the one bit is meeting people is literally just going up to them and saying your name and everything. I do have that fear of, I don't know if it's just women, I feel like it's more women have that fear of, oh, nobody will want to talk to me, nobody will like me. I'm not worthy of these people around me. Why should I introduce myself to people? I don't know if you ever had that fear. I have, you know, everyone has, but it grows with you and it grows with confidence. I'm in my 30, I'm 39 now and I don't think I've got into my fully stride yet. I actually love getting older and I love learning. So I think it's just time and doing it in regards to kind of, I think it's looking at yourself and it's having a bit of common sense. And if someone's having a private talk with someone and they look engrossed, you don't walk over or interrupt. If you kind of see someone in a lift or if you're kind of walking down the street, what's wrong with going up to someone? Said, I really enjoyed that article you wrote or your opinion on it. You don't necessarily have to want anything. It's just about saying hello and saying I'm here in the world, what's wrong with that? And people love to be told they're doing well, who, no matter where they come from. So I think get rid of that fear. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that, isn't it? I think that as women, the reason that we sort of hold back a lot of the time and we do it sort of a double think before we approach people in the street is because from a very young age we were. You don't know what you're going to get and very often you would get something that you would have to protect yourself from. I yesterday was walking through Piccadilly and I'm a 51 year old woman and these guys must have been late teens, early 20s. And one of them goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop. And I was just like, I just do not have the time or energy for this. And he said, you can't be walking around like that. It's illegal. You're too sexy. I can't really walk around that moment. Well, no, I decided that being me, I decided it was a teachable moment and he was going to, if he was going to take up my time with that I was going to take up his time with. This is why it's not appropriate. So I said to him, it's not appropriate to approach people that you don't know in the street and to say something like that. He goes, but you are sexy. I said, that is highlighting an aspect of me that you can see that's not actually about me. It's about you asserting your dominance in a toxically masculine way. So it's not actually about me. It's about you seeing me and using me as an opportunity to do something that you want to do. And that is not okay. And that is why you do not approach women on the street and say things. And I think that because we all had that as young girls then that's the knock on effect is that we are sort of double and triple bagged, if you like that. We just are kind of watching and saying is it okay? Is it okay? Is it really okay? Is it maybe. And we walk past it rather than just do the approach the way I think it's safer. I think that men are more conditioned to just say what they want to say. I think it's, I think you're spot on. It's doing it in a kind positive way. Not a sexist like you're, what have you, you're sexy. That's just. Shut up. We all know we're sexy, so we don't need you to tell us. So just. No, it's about doing it in the right way and being the intelligent women that we are. We talked earlier on about emails and in person. A couple of the emails I have been successful in getting responses from is when I've read something and I've admired. So I've written to people and gone. I really loved your article that you wrote. These are the reasons why if you ever have time for a cup of tea, I'd love to buy you one. And keeping it simple and doing a connection that gets you somewhere, I feel. Not all the time. You're never gonna get that all the time. But, you know, you get one or two out of like 10 or whatever it is and it will start building. I think that sometimes people don't have the vocabulary that they need. They kind of know what they want to say, but they just don't have the vocabulary. So I think it's really important to not try and go in there. Clever. Ask a Judy May, then that'll be a show for you because you're great. Well, yes, that is one of my things, actually. I'm teaching a workshop on it next Saturday of just exactly what to say when everyone should go to that. But it's just extraordinary how if you just know that you don't have to lead with your CV, that you don't have to immediately, within the first 30 seconds, let someone know how amazing you are in the world, what you do, how you can be of use to them, but quite simply, oh, my God, I love your shoes. And that's where, you know, we have the upper hand as women because we do connect on that level. But then we can bring it that step further and say, hey, I see you around here a lot. Do you work locally and just not try to be sophisticated, but just make that human connection. I agree and I think it's more relevant now to what the UK is facing. People are wanting to work with people they like rather than. You've gone to top Ivy League universities. Not saying that that's wrong. There's some great people, but it's about, do I want to work with you, do I like you? Because people want more that connection and to have support rather than. Yeah, sorry, I'm going to take this back a bit. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. With perception of people, when you look at someone, the amount of times I've got it wrong, where I've been like oh my God, he looks like such a creeper. Then as soon as you get to know them, the complete opposite. How do you feel within business? You look at someone and you go, that's someone who I'm. Do you do look, do you look through your perception or do you just go, I'm gonna talk to everyone, I talk to everyone and follow my gut. And then I think if you stay true to your gut instinct, you can't really go far wrong with that. I think your heart and your head tends to want to leave. But I think gut instinct is the one to go by. Every time I haven't followed my gut instinct, I've been wrong. Tears have fallen, heads have rolled back to the duvet. So I believe follow your gut. And the more you do that, the more you'll have conflict in yourself. Not to say that you don't. I get it wrong occasionally. I'm not perfect. A really important fact around that is we often feel like we have to get it right. But as Dr. Phil says famously, you can either get it right or you can make it right. And it's okay to make a mistake. It's okay to attract someone who is narcissistic or someone who is less than lovely or less than capable into your business or into your life. As long as, as soon as you recognize that you have done that, you can trust yourself. So you don't need to trust anybody else. It doesn't matter if anybody else is trustworthy, but you trust yourself that you have what it takes to make it right. That you can then get in there and say, you know what, I need to either block this person from my phone or I need to be around them less or I need to communicate this and that. You can take care of it. Because we often catastrophize and we feel that one little mistake means that we've, you know, we're not good at judging people. We need to self protect. We can't be around people, we can't possibly have another business. We sort of do that, don't we? We stack it. Absolutely. You're never going to get right all the time, but unless you go out and try, then you'll never get it right at all. And that's the. Yeah, that's the worst kind of not getting it right is not living right. We've got way more after the break with Kate Oliver and Elspeth Froudlock. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity. From opinions career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website Women for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don't know where to start. @empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Ann Kelleher. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops interviewing customers asking why they like drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip. For our listeners, the most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum, juggling far too many balls and dropping most of the, this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together with spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories. It will be refreshing, honest and funny. Look at being a mum. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk welcome to the Women's Radio Station Supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities including individual programs, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting Women's wellbeing. Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. I'm Judy Mae Murphy and with me in studio today, we have Kate Oliver, the creative entrepreneur. And we also have our, as usual, friend of the show because she's part of the show, we have Elspeth Proudlock, our associate producer. And I think I was thinking about, when it comes to women gathering and not doing things on your own, I really love the stuff that's going on in the world over the last few years. Things like. What is it called? Is it called Stoptober? Some people are calling it. Some are calling it Stopto. Is that what it is? Stoptober? No, I've got it wrong. Is it something? Is that. Is that it? Okay, great. I was just like, did I just make that up? No, that's a real thing. Right? And so people. But there's lots of things like that. Lots of ways for us to gather just around ideas. Someone has the idea and says, hey, guys, let's as a global tribe, let's all get together and do this. I'm so glad it's not another one that's about growing a mustache. And I find it really, really interesting. So, Kate, what would you say about Sober October? Would it be better to do it as a group thing or a single person against it all? I am doing so for October. Oh, my God. And oh, God, I said that out loud on radio now. And as most of my friends will know, I do like to have a glass of wine or several. So I think it's already up there that I will fail. So what I decided to do is actually tell people quite a few over the last few weeks. I want to do this and why I'm doing it in a positive way. And now I've got several great friends who are joining me, which now, being a competitive person, I'm not going to be the one that fails and also to have that group around so we can go and have a juice or something instead. And the reason I really wanted to do this because Soap October is for a great charity, but to be honest, not so much that it's a reset. And I think over the summer it's been absolutely boiling hot. And in the creative advertising industry and such I work in, there is quite a lot of kind of booze involved is to have a reset and kind of do it and do something together. So I don't think I could do it without the support of the people who are joining me. It is definitely proven with looking at weight Watchers and whatnot. That that is more seen as successful as people are doing it as a group. So they feel the pressure to not fail. To fail. Yeah, not to fail. Rather they feel like they already are. There's not. So there's not such a fallout if it's just you. It's. You just have to deal with yourself. But if you feel like you got to deal with yourself and the other women, then, you know, you sort of stand taller in that. And I've got to say I gave myself a Life reset in 2000 and I from, you know, just your typical whiskey drinking girl would only have a couple of drinks, but that would happen a couple of times a week and went from that to I haven't had alcohol since the millennium of 2000. Had a glass of champagne on a rooftop in Hollywood and said to myself, you know what, this would be a good time to just knock that on the head. And haven't missed it since. I think it's very often that when we're around, you know, this is kind of like the downside of the wisdom of the crowd, if you like that when we're around people who do something and it doesn't suit any of us, we keep doing it anyway just because everyone's doing it. Easier to do. I remember as well becoming vegetarian in the 80s. That was hard. I was the only vegetarian in the village, village of Dublin. Like there just weren't any. You just, it was almost impossible. But now it's much easier now that I'm vegan as well. It's just much easier because it's not seen as such a big deal. You don't get mocked to the same degree and the same thing for not drinking alcohol. I find it very, very easy because now it's accepted as a choice, whereas it was seen as very, very odd. That question that really annoys me, oh, why aren't you drinking? Because I don't want to. Would you ask why I'm not having a diet Coke or a cup of tea? Exactly. And I just always shoot back with, well, why are you? There's an amazing lady, Julia Smith from Digital Leading Ladies who stopped drinking at the beginning of the year and she's written a couple of great blogs who I'd encourage a lot of people to look at. So if we go to Digital Leading Ladies, her name is Julia Smith and we'll find her. We'll find her. And she's got some great articles about not drinking and working in the creative industries. She's doing some great stuff at the moment. Yeah. And it is phenomenal how we can kind of inspire each other to that, because I've had quite a few people who, over the years, not in my profession, but just socially, have come over to me and said, you know, I'm getting sober or I'm getting clean or I'm starting this just because they know that that's just how I live and they can just run it by me. And just even seeing me, they kind of know, like, well, Judy Mae's really happy and she's got loads of friends, she's got a great life and she. She doesn't drink, she doesn't eat meat. That's, you know, this is something I can do. I think Stoptober is a really important one as well, because I'm. Historically or previously, I've said I don't want to do it in October or January because that's when everyone else is doing it. And that's. Actually, I believe that's an excuse because you're kind of setting yourself up for failure. So then I thought a few weeks ago, why am I saying that? Because you've got more chance, success for being with people, to actually go and join with your tribe, with loads of other great humans in the world and get it done. Yeah. I definitely think people forget that in the culture of drinking, people forget that you don't have to drink to have a good time with your friends or have a good time in general. But I'm, what, 19? And I not a drinker. I will go out with friends and have a Diet Coke whilst everyone else is drinking. And I often get, why are you being boring? Why aren't you drinking? Why don't you get drunk? And I'm like, I just don't want to. It's not my thing. But isn't that interesting that we need to justify that? I always think that that's a sign that you need to get around a higher tribe. Because I certainly. I think it's also sometimes when people know that they can invade a boundary or they know that they can speak to you that way. I certainly. People will say something like that to me once, but they won't say it again. And I will just be like, with the guy who come up to me on the street, he will not try that again. And you don't have to be rude, but you can just very clearly explain and you can say something like, it sounds to me as if you are not comfortable with your choice and you are projecting that by suggesting that I should be uncomfortable with mine. Is that a thing? They're not gonna. They're not gonna say that again. I do believe everyone has the right to their own decisions and I think everyone should have respect that everyone through everyone else's decision, if you don't think it's right, go off and talk to someone else. So what do you do, Kate, when you do come across someone who initially you. Because we've all experienced this initially, you think that they're very exciting, very supportive, and then you start to realize that in fact they only really want to. To use you for what you've got and they don't have any intention of giving back to the tribe. Still learning about that. I think I had a conversation with you a few weeks ago about someone. It's going to happen, but you've got to also, what I do believe is relationships aren't always forever. And it's not a new thing to say that. But everyone as a person grows. So I think that's okay to actually, you know what, that's been brilliant. Loved that time of my life. Now I've got to go on this direction. That might not be forever, but I think that's all right and to trust your instinct and put yourself around. I think I've got a few key people through different areas of my life, like business, personal, what have you, who are my kind of go to people to ask, is this right? And I think that's. That's quite important to have those. Those people. And a lot of them are actually quite a lot older, have been through kind of various things themselves and actually some quite a lot younger as well, a mixture. So if each of us had to come up with a key tip for how to not go it alone anymore, I'm just wondering what that would be. I think for me, certainly my key tip for someone with my personality type who is more introverted would be to remember that there's a wisdom in the crowd. Remember that it doesn't all happen in the books or in your head. That actually. That the wisdom is out there for you to harvest. That would be my number one tip. Kate, what would your number one tip be? I think would be for people who are starting their own businesses and if I'm. I work a lot on my own and I bring teams in for various projects. But if you're at home and that's where you live, sleep, get out there and talk to people. Because being around people can get more things done than being distracted. So just get out into the world, sit yourself, go and see an art gallery. And just find your common interests. It's so easy, though, isn't it? Just to sit behind a screen at home these days. I feel that gets me quite depressed. I had the Sunday night anxiety last night of, oh, God, how much have I got to do this week? Best thing I did was get my ass on the central line into Soho, surround myself with great people. Someone bought me breakfast randomly and then I come to talk to you. And I think that's going to set the week off in a brilliant way. I love that. Just to get yourself out there. Brilliant. One step at a time. That's it. Not too much pressure. Elspeth, how about you? What do you think is really vital for not going it alone? Definitely surround yourself by the right people. It's so easy to put yourself out there and find the wrong person because you find comfort in what you want to be told, not what you want, you know, it's what you want to hear. And I think surrounding yourself by the right people, because I remember when I first came here to London, there were a few people who I do look back on and I'm like, I shouldn't have ever met you. I am. But you moved on. But you moved on. You learned from it. Right in the end. Yeah. But I've surrounded myself with a lot of great people such as you, ladies and other lovely ladies and gentlemen. But, yeah, I think definitely surround yourself with the right people. Exactly. To move on when it's not working. Yeah. I think also as well, it's all right to ask for help. Don't hold it all on yourself. Oh, goodness. Yes. That's a lesson we're all learning all the time, isn't it, that. Whatever. And I would say if anyone listening right now has had an ongoing problem, like something that they feel is really, you know, been dragging them down for a long time, something they feel is unsolvable, that really is a clue that that is the thing you need to get a team around. Agree with that. Wonderful. So today we have had Kate Oliver here in studio. Thank you. Oh, absolute pleasure. Along with our associate producer, Elspeth Pradlock. And what we're going to be doing is we're going to be inviting you to send in ideas for future shows. What is it you'd like us to deal with on Judy May's Listening? And as always, I am listening. I'm listening to you all the time. Reach out through social media or@info judymay tv. Let me know what's going on in your life. Let me know how I can help you to transform things. Because whatever's going on, whatever's great, you get to keep that, you get to augment it. Whatever needs changing, you get to change that. And first we got to transform who you're being inside. And there's loads of different ways to do that. So if anyone's listening right now who has an idea that they'd like to go bigger, have more fun, just have a more extraordinary life, that's what we're here for here on wrs, supporting women's well being. We'll see you all next week live at noon on Monday. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station Supporting women's well being. And we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experience experiences. 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