Judymay Is Listening – Victoria Usher Founder & CEO At GingerMay

Welcome to Judy Mayer's Listening. This is the show where you tell me what's happening in your life and I listen and together we transform everything. Welcome if this is your first time here and welcome back if you are a regular with us here on WRS women's radio station supporting women's well being. I'm Judy Mae Murphy. I am your coach and host for this hour and we have an incredible guest in today. Her name is Victoria and Victoria is someone who, like you, started to wonder would it be possible to have a family life and a successful business. But she didn't leave that idea in her head. Instead she decided that she was going to make this a reality, that she was going to try it out and she did and she has become a huge success and she's brought a lot of people with her along her success road and I'm delighted for you to meet her. Victoria, welcome. Lovely to be on here. Judy May. So tell me about Ginger May. Where did it start and what did you learn about yourself from just the very initial stages of launching it, of going from the idea to taking the first pieces of action. So I think one of the biggest things I found is that when you look at people that have launched a business, you think they've had this big idea all along. And often I'll get labelled an entrepreneur, which is personally a phrase I absolutely hate because I. Interesting. Yeah. I find it so loaded and women actually back away from that phrase. They think they're not capable of being an entrepreneur or a business owner. And I've heard lots of people use that phrase in relation to people like Alan Sugar or, you know, Richard Branson. So there's a lot of associations of being hard and hard nosed and aggressive and actually it's, it's about, you know, being a business owner or being an, if I'm going to use the phrase entrepreneur is doing business in the way that you are most comfortable with and if you're authentic and you're doing it your own way, that's when you are a success. And if I'd have tried to do this a hard nosed business way that I thought would have worked, it would have been a complete and utter failure. So I had to do it my own way and I did it the natural way and it's, yeah, it's accelerated massively. And what was it initially that led you to know that you didn't have to, did you try to do it in that sort of tough nosed way? Well, I think the thing is that when you start off, if you have a big plan often that can go completely wrong. So I didn't have a big plan. I basically thought, right, I need to, I need to have work, I need to find work. I was, my husband's a policeman and I was the managing director of a business and the main wage earner in the house. And I had two very young children. So there was immediately a financial impetus I had to make it work. So that was the biggest stress for me was just, I've got to make it work, I've got to bring money in. So there was no big, kind of big idea. I was like, I'm just going to try this. So I threw myself in at the deep end and started freelancing. And I think that's the way, when I look at other businesses, that's the way often that they found the most success because they haven't put a lot of pressure on themselves. So I'll often see people come forward with like a huge business plan and massive projections. And you know, I'm going to be enormous. It's going to be so successful and we're going to have VC funding after three years. And I'm looking at it thinking, wow, you've got a name and no clients. All you are is a concept. You know, why don't you just go out there and just try and try and just see actually what works and dip your toe in the water without creating all these big barriers for yourself and jumps to jump over. Because that's actually not what it's about. You just need to go out and see what works and what doesn't. And I think these days we are sold an idea that somehow it has to be all super shiny, that somehow you have to have these superstar clients and has to roll out effortlessly from the beginning. And you had to get written up in magazines and talked about on podcasts. And that isn't really the reality of it, that very often I'm sure you see this too, that people will have kind of that big energy around it or that, that big story around their company. But as you say, there's no actual money coming in. And a business is about the money coming in. Absolutely. It's not, I mean, in my belief, it's not a business till you've actually got real clients that are actually paying you real money. And we were that from the, from the get go. So the focus, I would, you know, if anybody's actually looking to set their own business up, I'd say first of all, go for it, you know, you will. I'm sure you will never regret it if you go about it in a kind of careful, considered manner. It's one of the bravest things you can do. You're jumping off a cliff. But my goodness, the positives that you get from it. Unbelievable. And I would never go back to being employed by anybody ever again. Now I think I'm probably slightly unemployable because you do get to that point where you're so driven to kind of make decisions that it's very difficult taking on board somebody else's, not somebody else's point of view. But you get so used to making the decisions by yourself. That makes you a bit of a soulless operator. But I think, you know, when you first start off, it is about having a vision and a goal and you do need to define that. And I do believe that writing down ideas is really important. So if you gave yourself a three year plan, put in incremental increases, maybe in how much money you want to earn or where you want to be, or if you want to employ people, you don't always have to do that. But the wider kind of vision around what your lifestyle will look like, what your days will look like, where will you be, what will your evenings look like. So you're kind of planning a picture for yourself because it makes it much easier to understand whether the decisions you're making are going to be feeding into that. So it's kind of making those very basic decisions first off and then obviously going out and looking for clients. So you know that's not around telling everybody how brilliant you're going to be in terms of writing that plan. That's something very much to keep for yourself. But then when you're going out and actually telling clients about yourself, you need to be packaging yourself up because ultimately they are buying you. Because people buy, as you will know, people buy people, they want you. That's almost one of the first. So that was a terrifying thing for me. So what did that very first moment look like? Because a lot of people are like, I just don't know what the very first thing is. Usually it's a phone call to someone you already know. Was that the case with you? No. So we now. So the business is now 50 people, we've got offices in six countries. And it started off with two emails that I sent out from my LinkedIn to two people that I knew and just said, I'm looking for work. And I was doing a full time job at the time, so I had to set the business up in the evenings. Essentially evenings and weekends. So I do speak to a lot of people that say, I'm thinking of ditching my job and setting up a business. I'm like, well, that's great. But you're taking a massive risk here because it might take you a year to set this up. Why don't you just do it in your spare time and you can test this testing concept, test it, see what works, see what you've got coming in. And then if you get enough business, absolutely, you can jack your job in. But in the meantime, you're not putting yourself under a lot of pressure and strain because that makes it even worse. And actually, people can crumble under that pressure. So doing it, you know, a little bit in the evenings and like I say at the weekends, in terms of setting up a, you know, setting up all your materials, going out, actually pitching for work. And ultimately, when I say pitching for work, I don't even want to overcomplicate this. This is a question you need to ask. You need to say to people, I am thinking of setting up my own business. If I did, would you potentially give me some work? Can we talk about it more? That's it. That's the first entry point in. You need to think. And this is even before you had something to offer them. Absolutely. Well, I had me. So, you know, I was. But you couldn't suddenly, if they said yes in that, you couldn't then turn around and deliver a service to them. In that moment. Not in that moment, I'd had to have set up. Set myself up, and I had to figure out what was it to your point? Exactly. That. What was it I was actually offering. But I love that. I love the fact that you, you know, because a lot of women, I find over. Prepare. Yeah. And they try and wait until the product is done. And not just done, but they feel like the product is representative of them. They, you know, they have this idea of perfect or good enough. You can't do that. But I love the fact that you're saying, you know, when eventually I'm here, would you be interested? You have the conversation way before most women would. I'm still not perfect. Let me. Let me into a secret. Like, we still haven't. We still haven't completely nailed it. I don't know. Myself and Elizabeth are sitting here looking at you right now. We're just kind of like, you're looking pretty perfect there, girl. I can absolutely assure you, imposter syndrome is, like, stapled right across my forehead. So, no, you will never get to that point, and it's a little bit like that fact, which is men will go for a job if they are like 30% competent in all of the areas on the job description. And women have to wait until they're 100%. It's the same principle with business. You. You have to have an idea and know that you're going to have to wing some of it because that's what. That's what guys do. And they do it brilliantly. They're really good at that. And we ourselves, it's. It's that kind of. I don't want to bull. You know, don't want to bull people. I don't want to make it up. I want to actually be able to do it and deliver, do a really good job and make people really happy over conscientiousness. Really, it is. And that's why women are so brilliant to work with. But at the same time, it kind of holds us back a little. So there's that great saying, which is you've got to fake it before you make it. I would never say fake it to the point where you can't deliver, but if you know yourself that you'll be able to go away and figure out the answer, then go for it. And that's certainly what I did. The whole time there were things I was being asked to do. I mean, I set up a PR firm off the back of never having ever run a PR campaign. I knew I'd be able to figure it out, and I did. And that's just about having the. I do have confidence in my ability, but I also have a good network. And, you know, we can figure these things out if you've got a basic understanding. I was a cmo. I had a good understanding of marketing. I'd run PR before I felt confident enough that I could figure it out. And that is actually exactly what we did. So, yeah. So I'd say, first of all, don't wait till you're perfect. You need to get your clients on board, and then you can figure out what you as a product looks like and call on your network. So the amazing thing is it's very serendipitous when you set yourself up because there are lots of people that are waiting to help you. So I had people coming out of the woodwork. People love a founder, people love somebody going for it and setting up a business, and they will step out of the shadows and help you. So ask. So that's what I would say is don't be afraid to ask people will help you wherever they can. Now someone who's sitting here listening, saying, all these people that Victoria's talking about, I don't have those people, do they? I think they probably do. So I think look at your LinkedIn network and see who you know. But also there are lots of women's networking groups as well, locally and nationally. You do need to get yourself out to that. I know it can be like toe curlingly embarrassing when you first go that's to yourself. You think everybody's looking at you. People want to network, they want to help, they will come up to you. Just swallow your pride, go up to them and ask them about themselves. People love being asked about themselves because people are fighting to be heard all the time. So I them listen to them, find out what they're doing and what you'll find is they're incredibly supportive, they're a brilliant network and they will help you too. So make the most of those networks. Is there a danger though? A thing I've seen sometimes is that people, women in particular, they'll gather together and they will often help each other stay small. They'll kind of like praise each other and you know, say to people, oh that's all right, you've got this. And they'll kind of like take the, take the energy out of it in a way. So I, I've had a couple of examples of experiences like that but I think I've been quite lucky and I've had people that have encouraged me. It's not, and it's not just women, it's men as well. So I'd say get a combination of the two. So women's networking groups, but also business groups in general are very good at making you stretch and you yourself know when you're being limited. I think you will know whether you're being not stretched but limited in absolutely. Well, we're going to go for more stretching right after the break with Victoria Ussher talking about Ginger May. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. 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And we're going to be talking about that in a little while. First of all, I was just kind of trying to wonder, what would your day look like? Like, what would it be like? And we have this image of a CEO's day as being them shouting into phones. I don't know. Those of us who, like, were teenagers in the 80s and we watched a lot of those movies, that' pretty much what we were told that bosses did. They talked all the time. But I'm imagining that you probably have to do quite a lot of listening in your day because, you know, when you're handling that many people, it must be kind of like having a large family. It absolutely is, Judy May. I think I didn't expect it to be like that. And I'm the same as you. I was brought up thinking that business was all about being like Alan Sugar or a really tough guy who just shouts and dictates and points lots of fingers around the boardroom. And the actual reality of it is, is I probably spend about 10% of my day talking and about 90% listening. And that's listening to clients, trying to understand their needs and what they need and their strategic issues that they've got, listening to staff and listening to other key stakeholders about what's actually going on. And I think listening is a really undervalued skill. I don't like talking to people necessarily until I've actually heard a little bit more about them. This was some training I had in my 20s and it just flicked a switch in my mind. Tell us about that. It was awesome. It was. It was actually set up as sales training because sales training, essentially, again, you think sales is telling people, but actually, you know, the best kind of sales is actually listening and finding out what people's needs are so that you can then give them, in response to that, what they actually need. So in my early 20s, I would be. I was going to parties and go and foist myself on people and tell them all about how interesting I was and, you know, be the loudest, most entertaining person in the room. And, you know, was the same at family gatherings. And then I went through sales training and realized that that actually wasn't the best way to be respected and to be liked. And actually what you need to do is you need to find out about people and that is a much more intelligent way of actually engaging in people. And that's how you get an authentic engagement. So it's asking lots of open ended questions and really getting to know the person behind the face. So you know, how are you? Tell me about yourself, what's going on? And you can, you can actually fall into this lovely pattern with people where you're just asking more and more open ended questions as they're talking and they get very carried away and open up a lot to you because they're just not used to being listened to. Why do you think that is? I think we live in a society where everybody's talking at us. You know, there's an information overload. We get it in our devices, we get it from other people. If you look at a bunch of men or women out there, you know, they're all kind of talking over each other. It's very hyper and very, very loud and noisy. And actually the person sitting back gets ignored and I no longer engage in those kind of situations. I would be the one off to the side having a more meaningful conversation, just one on one with somebody. So at a party I'll be the one in the kitchen standing by the sink with one or two people actually finding out more about themselves and again having those deeper, more authentic conversations. And we kind of lose the art of listening when we don't do it actively. And it's something you have to really think about and really consider when you meet people. But people really respect you and they really appreciate being listened to properly. And that's active listening. So you're nodding when you're listening to them. They can see that you're listening, you're asking relevant questions back, those questions open ended, prompting them to talk more. And that I think is a, is such an important skill and it's a key skill that helped again found the business. Because when you go into a business meeting, you're absolutely not telling them about the business that you are running. You are finding out the business they are running because that's what they're interested in talking about. They want to know how you're going to solve their problems and you need to listen to what those problems are. So if you go into a meeting and you start talking about yourself, they probably aren't listening properly because they haven't told you what their issues are. And you're also preempting a lot of the problems that they have got. So you may well expose things that are too early. If you go in and actually find out how the business is running and what the issues are, you can then come back afterwards. Once you've listened to that and you've kind of exhausted all the different avenues and then answer those questions. And at that point they're listening, I guess as well, they then feel included. Rather than that you're coming in in sort of a school teacher kind of manner, saying to them, this is what you're doing wrong and I will fix it. Which doesn't feel good to anybody. Absolutely. It's a massive assumption when you, when you come in and you make a huge assumption about what's happening and it gets people's backs up. You know, you want, if you think about, if you have somebody coming in, talking to you in your personal life, you know, you want them to find out the lay of the land first so that they can make an intelligent judgment about what you. What they think is needed. And it's more responsive to exactly the problems they have laid out. And you can respond back to them. You can say, so you have an issue with X, Y and Z. Am I right in understanding that? And again, if you haven't, if they haven't explained it properly, they can at that point clarify what their issues are and then you can come back in with recommendations. So I would say to anybody that's looking to go into business or improve their business career, that active listening is probably the most important skill that you will learn. And it doesn't just help you in business, it helps you in your personal life as well. So again, with friends, you know, friends have got lots of things to say and it's really nice to go along and actually be supportive and listen to actually what's happening in your friendships or your relationships or anything. Again, like I say, it was a huge switch in my 20s and I realized that I was doing things completely the wrong way around. I was talking first, listening after. But people are often alienated if you have literally just talked at them. So it's got to be almost like a tennis match. I've got two girls and I trying to show them because children just talk at you, you know, they just barrage you with information and just getting them to talk one at a time and to talk quietly and just to ask adults. And it's very difficult principle for them to understand, but it's really lovely to see how they start to understand it and they pick it up. We talk about Having the tennis ball principle around the kitchen table where one person has the conversation point and then they throw it back to you. And do you find that older women, like, I mean, you know, women who are then of working age, do you find that they naturally do that or do you have to do little bit of tennis ball training in the boardroom as well? Yeah. So what will happen often is that, you know, women don't always. So that it's almost the reverse. They almost don't speak up enough. So they will. They will often rely on a prescript if they're going to go in and actually have a meeting. So they will often too closely kind of associate themselves with a set of slides, a deck or an agenda without asking those questions first because they know they've got it. It's like, yes, I know what I'm saying here. And I will often say to them, right, forget the agenda, forget the slides. Like that's just there in reserve. We are going to be talking first and we're going to be asking questions to the client and I will often, I will show them how to do it and they will then eventually kind of get into the hang of it. We do quite a lot of training our business to kind of show them how to do that. But it's, again, it's not a skill that's normal in the workplace or in life because people don't value it. So that's why we're trying to teach, show people how important it is to do that. Listening to get the engagement and the level of engagement that you require, and how easy do you find it to let go of the reins when you are saying to someone, okay, watch me, listen to me, observe how I do this. And then there comes a time where presumably they just got to go off and do it on their own. And I imagine you have this idea of, oh, I hope they do this, or I would have done that. Because when your company grows to a certain degree, you have to let other people just go off and be themselves. You got to trust that they're going to do the best job possible. What. What is that like? It's. Oh, God, it's so difficult. It's the biggest challenge I've had. I wouldn't even say I've cracked it. I have. I have a coach who is working with. Well, she works with the business, actually, and she has helped me a lot to just trust in the team and for them to understand what my anxieties are. So once they've understood what my anxieties are, Then they can meet those. But you do need to learn, let people off the leash as such, you need to let them go off and make the mistakes. If you're going to run a business that's bigger than just you, you have to show people what the processes are and then support them in what they're doing so that if they fall then, or stumble, you're there to catch them. But you have to be prepared for a level of sort of issues or things going slightly wrong but nothing too major. So that's why I say you put in place processes. Something like going into a meeting and structuring it like that for new business, for example. I love new business personally, so I will always go meet new clients for existing clients. Where we've got client relationships, we are very, very data and process driven, very rigorous in terms of what we do so that there is a structure for people to follow. But they've got their creativity, they can maneuver within that. So I think that's the way you let go is you create a structure from within which people can actually operate within their own freedom. But there are parameters within it. There are a lot of women listening right now who are thinking, but I don't know any of that stuff. I don't know how to create a system, I don't know how to hire people. Did you know all of this going in or is this something that you learned on the job? Did you have a little bit of help? Did you have a lot of help? How did it come about that you are now expert in this? So I learnt it all on the job and I'm kicking myself because I could have made it so much easier actually by getting non exec directors in earlier or coaches in earlier. I think it's really important. And I have lots of different non exec directors. I've had lots of different coaches and I think each of them have been really good at their certain area of influence. The reason they're good is because they've made all those mistakes before and they can shortcut you. So what will tend to happen in a business is you will, you will have a problem. You know, it could be anything, it could be office space. And what will happen is you will try one avenue and you'll hit a wall and then another and another and another and maybe after the 10th go, you'll figure it and you'll think, ah, right, okay, that's how I need to do it next time. But actually if you're working with a good non exec director or a coach, they can help point you in the right direction straight away. So they won't tell you the answer. But good coaches and good non exec directors will give you the options. Options and help you to find the answer yourself. And that's where you can cut out time and money as well. You can waste an awful lot of time and money by making lots of repetitious mistakes. So about six or seven years in I discovered that. So I did six or seven years just making lots of mistakes. And as I know well, there are so many people who sort of think, well, I don't have the money right now, I'll get coaching when. And it's like, you know, get coaching now and then the money won't be a problem anymore. I have one guy who follows me on social media and for the last 20 years he has been explaining to me why he can't come to me for coaching. Fascinating stuff. All right, we're gonna have a lot more after the break. I've got amazing questions bubbling up for you, so get ready for this right after these. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station Supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. 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With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's Wellbeing. So we might just be kidnapping Victoria and keeping her here all day because even when you guys are in the ad breaks, we are just learning so, so much. And a question that our associate producer Elspeth has, as many of you, many of you know Elspeth now very well and a question that she had was about how much of it is to do with you. Do you know what, Elspeth, you put it much better than me. Off you go, jump in. Not really. So clearly, clearly you have an eye for what people want to hear, what people don't want to hear. But how much of it is an algorithm and looking at the statistics and how much of it is your own personal opinion. So in terms of things like what people want in business, in terms of business needs, yeah, I think there are definitely similarities in terms of what people need. I would say, you know, there are a number of different things, but one thing that people have in common is when they bring you on as a consultant, ultimately you've got to think the what's in it for me question. So that would be the one thing I would say to people is always understand what's in it for the person that is going to hire you or buy your services. What is the most important thing for them. And quite often it is actually to make them look good within their organization. So you need to think about how you can Elevate their own profile. Even when you're not working for them directly, you might be working for the organization in general and delivering their services. But how can you make them look really brilliant? Because they're making a decision about bringing you in. So you've got to be making them look good and not bad. You can reward them for that. You can't. Yeah. And one of the ways of doing that is you just make their job really super easy and deliver. I mean it's, for me it's pretty obvious it's about delivering really good services, but making it really super easy for them. So it's not just about the two of you colluding so that they get to look super shiny. You get a paycheck and the result doesn't matter. The result is at the core of you getting the customer and them looking good. Absolutely. So you're delivering, so the housekeeping is, you're delivering really good services, whatever that might be that you're coming in to deliver in whatever sector you're in. But what you also need to do is think in the position of that person within the organization. So while you may only see your direct client within an organization and may know there's a CEO further up the chain or whatever other, you know, head of legal or a head of marketing or head of finance, what you need to do is understand the ecosystem that that person sits within. So who are their internal key stakeholders and what are the key performance indicators or things that they're tasked with actually doing and how can you help them to achieve that? And by that I mean, you know, if, if you know you can help influence them, that influence them in their KPIs, that's going to make it a lot easier for them to sing your services about your services. So it's kind of a two way process. What I'll see so often is people providing a service will think only of their own needs and not be looking to the client. Again, this goes back to listening. You're listening to their needs, you're finding out about their needs, you're finding out about the organization and then it's so much easier to remove, respond to. So in terms of your kind of algorithm, I would say that's almost the first, that's the most important question that I'm trying to find out is what is it all about? What is important to them? What's keeping them up at night? What can we do to make their job different and make them look really good and shiny? And then going on from that, I know That I love the word rigor that appears on your website because it's a word that is just underused. And the reason that I love it is that for us as women, we often feel like we don't have the toughness, but we can have the rigor. We can. Rigor, really, for me, I don't know if it's the same for you, is about going in and asking another question and maybe another question like, is that true? Or another question like, and how else could that come about? And we are good at being curious, so we can actually, instead of just going in with push, we can go in with curiosity. And the word rigor for me kind of encapsulates that. What would be your next step in rigor? What is rigor for you? So rigor for me is my background, because I was a data analyst when I first set out. So my first job was actually in the House of Commons. I worked for two MPs, which was really interesting. But that's all for another day, that conversation. I have a feeling that might be a whole other radio show. It's a whole hour. And then the second job was a data analyst. And so rigor was built into that process. So we had to literally look at each process stage of the process we're going through in the organisation and test it and make sure that it was all documented. And then I went into a marketing and a PR background and I found there was no rigor at all in that. So people were doing things differently all the way around the organization. So when I mention things like processes, that for me is rigour, it's making sure that everybody around your organisation understands what they're doing, what the standards are, what does success look like to everybody? And it's. It should be documented so there is no misunderstanding for anybody. So that for me is proper rigor. And then going back to your other point, for me, rigor is also about preparing, but not preparing so much that you lose a little bit of creativity. So it comes back to your point about setting up a business. You know, women will often prepare to 110%. You know, I've got to be completely prepared before I do this. You need to be confident enough. You need to prepare so you're confident enough to go out and do whatever it might well be, you know, it might be a speaking opportunity or a meeting. But don't over prepare because you will get yourself so worked up and wound up that you can't remember what you're supposed to be doing. Leave a little bit to chance. It's actually all right to do that. And it will leave a little bit of space for, like I say, for that creativity to come in. So rigour with creativity is good. I love the fact that you don't see that rigour is against creativity because I actually, as speaker, I always keep my skills up. And I decided that when I was living in Los Angeles a couple of years ago that I was going to take improvisation classes just to make sure. And that was kind of interesting because I thought that I was always listening to my audience until I started to do improv. And just to circle back to what we were talking about earlier, that there is always another level. So, yeah, you can actually be rigorously creative or creatively rigorous is just a lovely new idea to me. But it's obviously something that you and your people are living every day. And how much do you find that that is a problem? Lack of communication between the people who are supposed to be working very closely, like within the same department or even within the same marriage. I imagine it's a very similar breakdown when people who you're sitting right beside every day, and yet you don't have the same understanding of what the job is and the same understanding of the direction that you're moving in. That can be really destructive, actually. And I see it across a lot of businesses that I go into. And we. We are quite. I'm going to use it again, rigorous in terms of how we use communications within our business. So we have a hundred page. We call it our quality bible. We call it the Ginger May way. It's got all of our documented processes within it as a kind of a reference point. So, for example, you know, there are lots of different processes within primary. And what we do is we allow people to actually look through the different sections to say, oh, yes, now I understand what I need to do here. So there's creativity around that, but they've got a sort of a blueprint for how it's done in an ideal world. And that helps people that are six months in or 16 years in, just so they understand the way that we do it, because we do do it differently from other businesses. So I think that is really quite important. And how is that different from a mission statement? Because often I'll go into a business and I'll see their mission statement, and then I look at the way they are actually living and there's no connection. It's almost like the mission statement is excusing the fact that they're not living in that way. I Think they need to get someone in to really get their mission statement? Yes, because I think in that situation, what you'll often have is you do have the ideal. And people will sit down and say, you know, I think this is what we should be. And you can, you know, you've seen that disconnect between the reality and what the mission statement is. And people aren't stupid. Clients aren't stupid. They can see that immediately when they come into an organization, whether you're living and actually breathing your mission statement. So either you have to do work on your, on the way, your business functions to meet the mission statement properly, or relook at the mission statement and think, actually, we need to have something. We're not really clearly identifying what our values truly are and why clients are coming to us. And mission statements are really important because your staff need to understand why you're doing what you're doing. You know, it's well documented that people don't come to work just for the salary. The salary is important, so we can eat and drink and go out and have houses. But ultimately they want to feel valued and they want to feel that they're working towards something bigger. So actually, mission statements help to articulate that and show people what they're doing. And this is particularly important with younger people, people that are in millennial gen Ys, they want to understand how they fit into the much bigger picture. So how is your organisation, what they're doing about csr? What are you doing about the environment? What are you doing about training? So all of that needs to feed into your vision and values and your mission statement so they can see how you differ from your competitors. It's very important. And again, this all sounds wonderful and a little overwhelming for people who are starting out or have a smaller organisation. So right now I'm imagining a lot of women are sort of saying, well, Victoria is obviously a superwoman, obviously very, very organized, obviously somehow magically gifted. This is what our brains do, right? Our brains make up stories about what we see. You know, we know that everyone's human, but at the same time, what are your disciplines? How have you had to. How have you had to speak to yourself about your mission, Speak to yourself about what it is that you're bringing to your clients and to your employees. What is that inner dialogue for you on a daily basis? So just addressing your point about being superwoman. So I think so. I'm a very normal person. I come from a very normal comprehensive school background. I've worked very hard. I was Given a few lucky breaks early on in my career, what I had to do that was really hard was work quite long hours. When I first started, I had two very young children. I keep a very open mind to opportunities when they come in. So I would say that's a really important part of setting up a business. But most of the people that I know are not superwomen. They really aren't. It's people that work hard. I had a vision from the beginning of what I wanted. I was lucky, but I worked really hard as well. So just to kind of address that point is really important because I think it can put people off. You know, I'm 10 years in now, but, you know, if you'd spoken to me seven years ago, I'd have said, yeah, I've got one member of staff. Really? Yeah, totally, totally. And it was the biggest decision I made was bringing somebody on board. I had a crossroads in front of me. I had one too much work that I could cope with. So it's like, do I take someone on or do I turn the work done? And that was the biggest decision I've ever had to make in Ginger May. And that's interesting because that goes back to what we were talking about, the myth of entrepreneurship. So we sort of think that if it's not being sold for millions within the first three years that we've somehow failed. We're a sustainable business. We're not going to sell. We're all about something very different from that. I don't think selling a business. I think selling out is a really bad thing, personally. We're going to find out all about that right after the break. But before that, remember that here on Judy May's listening, this is all about me finding guests to bring to you that will answer the questions that you have. So keep sending in those questions. Keep in touch. It's InfoDymay TV and this is really us answering the questions that you have, making sure that you can get to grips with whatever's bothering you and transform everything. Welcome to women's radio station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie May is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything, fertility, pregnancy, birth and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. Hello, my name is Ingrid Marsh on Women's Radio Station and coming soon is the Radical Wellbeing show to help support women's well being. Each show I share the airwaves with ordinary women like me and you doing extraordinary things. Women who have overcome huge obstacles in their lives who are now here with me to empower you on the Radical Wellbeing show. You'll be inspired to kick away the roadblocks and live your life to the fullest. If you're ready to get radical about your well being, then this is the show for you. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover and mental health advocate and you can listen to my show. Get booked here at Women's Radio station daily at 5am and 5pm throughout my shows we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chapter authors, publishers and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotions, emotional well being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch@presentersomensradiostation.com join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls. Exclusive from information due to extreme poverty, we empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org you're listening to Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradiostation, that's womensradiostn or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. And welcome back. You are here on WRS Women's Radio Station supporting Women's well being. Supporting women's well being isn't just about vitamins that we take. It's not just about advice for how we can get the guy or do all those other marvelous things. It's also about how we can take care of ourselves in terms of how our entire life lives out, our entire mission. What is it that we're here for? Knowing that the world is a different and better place because we're here. And it's very interesting to hear Victoria Usher talk about how this is being done for her and many others through Ginger May, her extraordinarily successful PR company that she's been building up over the last 10 years. And so, Victoria, what is it for you that is important about not just building a company to sell it, but having it that it, you know, it sounds almost like a home. It's part of my life. It feels like a third child to me. And I think I've got a much better idea of what the concept is now from when I started. So when I first started, it was literally just a vehicle to pay my mortgage. If I'm being completely honest, going back to the whole point of I didn't have this huge vision, now it's a really exciting part of my life. I get to meet fascinating people like you guys. You know, every day is very, very different. But what is. What has become apparent more recently is that you realize the influence you have as being a business owner, and you have all of these people and their associated connections that actually you have the power to influence and try to do better. So a couple of examples. The first is around CSR and our carbon footprint in the environment. We're doing a lot of work in the business at the moment to teach people about how to lower their carbon footprint. And this is really. I'm massively passionate about, and I'm staggered that people don't pay a bigger interest to it because it's so important. And, you know, people that are 20 years younger than me should be paying more of an interest because it's their future. And why do you think they're not? I think it's apathy. I think it's. I don't think they're believing it's as big an issue that. As it actually is, because it is an enormous issue. The science is perhaps quite protective of themselves. Yeah, I think. I think, yeah, possibly. Perhaps they don't want to. You know, I spoke to my best friend at the weekend. She is just. She's frozen. She doesn't know what to do. Because the advice isn't coming through at the moment. The narrative hasn't clarified about how we need to personally act. So I've been brought up by parents who were very environmentally friendly in terms of they grew their own vegetables, they've recycled, they didn't buy lots of new things. They would buy secondhand. And it was very much that kind of post generation that did that. Whereas, you know, I've grown up in a consumer generation where it was all about buy, buy, buy more. Buying is good. You know, buying and throwing things out and, you know, that's very much my generation and the generations that have come after me. And I think we're starting to see the impact of that. And, you know, for other families that maybe haven't been brought up in the way I have, I think millennials and people in their 20s and their 30s and their 40s don't actually know how to. To deal with this. They just don't know how to change their behavior. And what we're trying to do at Ginger May is actually show them the small changes they can do themselves. Because we're going to have to take responsibility for this ourselves, because right now, nobody is taking responsibility for it. But there are things that we can do, and we are showing people that. So, for example, we've just had a swap shop in the company, and that may not sound like a big deal, but we got everybody in. They bought their clothes, clothes in that they wanted to get rid of, and everybody swapped. And the point of that is 10% of. Of carbon emissions are caused by clothing. So people need to understand why there's an impact on that. We're buying four times as many clothes in the last 10 years than. So we're now buying four times as many. Can myself and Elspeth get an invite to the next one? You absolutely can. Absolutely. We're doing things like creating your own cleaning products, using things like essential oils so that you're not using plastics and noxious products. And we're recycling. So we recycle all of our. Everything that we can possibly recycle, from coffee grinds to things like peelings from the fruit that we get in the office. And we compost that. I compost that at home, actually. Recyclable products. You know, we are literally looking every different area of our business and looking to see where we can reduce our carbon footprint. And we are personally taking that. My husband is taking home a dustbin every Friday to compost in our garden because we are so passionate about it and trying to show these you know, other people, how they can make these small changes is really, really important. But then do you find you get pushback? Because I was ridiculed for years for being vegan, for not having a car, for doing all these things for the environment. And now suddenly there was no, not even like one day where I was a cool or a good person. It went straight from me being ridiculous to me jumping on a bandwagon and trying to be trendy. Do you find that there's sort of like pushback in the industry at large? There is a little bit of skepticism, I think, and I'm trying to ignore it. I get very frustrated when people aren't acknowledging it even, you know, and you get that. Those stupid comments, particularly social media. I try not to look at social media because I find it really, really negative. And I'm just cracking on and just getting on with it and doing what I know is the right thing simply because nobody. Well, we do have a few leaders. I'm talking about Greta and various others that are really pushing this narrative. And people, the tide is starting to turn. And I would say as women, we play a really important role in this. And I'm starting to see, actually it's a lot of female voices joining this chorus and it men are also joining. You know, you've got David Attenborough who's really vocal about it, and some of the, you know, a lot of scientists and some of the nature guys are joining in, but some the of of the primary voices of female here. So it feels like a very female kind of led initiative. And I'm really interested to see where it goes in the next couple of years and how the narrative around it will change from being one of pointing blame at the moment. You know, you can see a lot of people that are saying, you know, don't you tell me what to do. Which I find incredible because they're trying to save our lives here and the lives of our children and our grandchildren. You know, what's not to know? You know, this is a cleaner planet, is a really good thing for all of us. Us, you know, we need to clear up, clean up our act. We don't need as many T shirts and as much food in our cupboards. You know, everybody is over consuming every single area of their lives. We can cut down and we will probably be happier as a result. You know, we are using, we are buying packaged everything to save time and how we, how are we spending that time? We're spending on Facebook, we're spending it on tv. You know, we're spending it doing really things that actually don't make us happy as a result. So maybe we do need to completely look at actually our whole lives and what we're doing, what we've been told we need to do for the last few years. And have you ever been in a situation where you living in this way, your company living in this way has lost you business? Or is it the case of everyone sort of says, oh, magnificent, let's follow Victoria and let's follow Ginger May, and this is the right way. Have you ever had that? No, we've never had that. So we are, we are very vocal about how important we think it is. But the nice thing is I think everybody that we have been working with have also felt the same way. And there is, you know, huge tide, as I say, that is starting to turn. You can see the way that the media is now covering it more and more. So I think it's becoming more difficult to argue. You know, four or five years ago, there was a lot of rhetoric around it where people didn't understand. But I think now we're all starting to understand actually how big an issue this is. And I think the companies that are embracing it are going to be the ones that will actually benefit in the longer run by being more sustainable. What would you say to women who are saying, I believe in this, our values are aligned, but my reality is right now that I don't have time to have, you know, to have recycling in my office. We're just getting by. We're all exhausted. I don't have the money to buy anything except, except fast fashion. And the only bit of joy that I have is by going to, you know, one of the high street places on the weekend and getting myself a couple of party dresses. What can I actually do? So I would say try to just do what you can because we can't be perfect. I am definitely far from perfect. And I've been a consumer for years and I have loved it. So I will put my hand up and say I have definitely contributed to this 100% and now I'm trying to do something about it. It, you know, I find it difficult with flying because I need to fly with business. You know, it's. There is no alternative at the moment. So you do what you can, you look at your lifestyle and you make the changes that you can at the moment. And I think more possibilities will start coming through. We're already seeing, I think today they said that eco that air, wind, electricity out outperformed coal. Today so already those kind of changes are happening really fast. That's fantastic. So do what you can. I saw something about President Carter, how he half his town is now run through solar panels that he initiated and put in place. He's just such a great example to the world, isn't he? Just absolutely incredible. I want to be like that. I kind of want to be in my 90s and sort of like building houses and doing good and being out in the community and you know, knowing that I'm creating something that's positive. You will be in a great dress. I hope so. I can see it. So what would you say is going to be the next step toward business? Because obviously we're going to have to do things differently. We are starting to do things differently. Do you think that that also has a knock on effect with how we're doing business differently and is business now starting to suit women better? I think business is definitely suiting women better. I mean it's never been a better time to work in business. When I first started it was super inflexible and you had to be office bound. You know, it was nine to five, 30, incredibly difficult to have any flexibility. Even 10 years ago when I had my second child, you know, I was, I was basically told to get back to work within six weeks of having my daughter. I couldn't work part time. What would have happened if you didn't go back? If you said I was told I'd lose my job. You would actually lose your job if you took an extra couple of weeks. Actually told I had to be back within six weeks. And I hear common stories like that everywhere. I think it is so hard. I'm sure it still happens. It's much harder. You will get called out much easier now. So it is much easier. You know, you've got things like, like Dropbox and other kind of facilities allow you to work anywhere. I think there's an understanding that as a woman, you know, there's a particularly working mums as well. There's an added value and added loyalty there. So I think employers are starting to wake up to the reality of employing women. So the women in your company, they can, if they need to work from home for whatever reason, your company can facilitate that? Absolutely, absolutely. I don't even worry about it because I know they will look after it themselves. All staff are allowed to do that. You've got to have a level of trust in people and they will pay you back. Obviously if that trust is broken then you look at it differently. But you start from a position of trust. That's interesting. So they don't have to earn the trust. You start from trust and then you let them know that this is now on them. And if they fulfill, then they get to stay. So you have a system. So we have a system. There's rules. These are the rules that you follow. And there's an unspoken agreement that if you break those rules, then that is taken away. So you can't work from home, you can't work flexibly because you have abused those rules. So, Victoria Usher, thank you so much for coming in and being on Judy May's Listening Today. I can tell you that I for one have just had this love for the future. Now that was kind of lying dormant, just feeling that with women like you out there, making the planet a better place, making it a better work environment for women, developing your vision as you go. Just an extraordinary, extraordinary way that you're showing up. Thank you. Positive things happen to positive people. Thanks, Judy May. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything, fertility, pregnancy, birth and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. Hello, my name is Ingrid Marsh on Women's Radio Station. And coming soon is the Radical Wellbeing show to help support women's well being. Each show I share the airwaves with ordinary women like me and you doing extraordinary things, women who've overcome huge obstacles in their lives who are now here with me to empower you. On the Radical Wellbeing show, you'll be inspired to kick away the roadblocks and live your life to the fullest. If you're ready to get radical about your well being, then this is the show for you. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show get get booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5am and 5pm throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch@presentersomensradiostation.com join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo, and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information.