Love Lessons – Dating After Divorce

Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live here in the studio in Covent Garden. Today we're here with a very special episode. As you know, Love Lessons is the show where we talk about everything from dating relationships to healing, heartbreak, starting over again after divorce. If that's for you and you're tuning in about that, that is a very specific subject for us today with a special focus on dating again with children if you're a divorcee. And also we talk healing any hurts from the past and relationships and the lessons learned as well as moving forward as a confident single. Today we've got a very special guest. We have Jackie Sansom in the studio talking about dating after divorce. And the focus is building confidence and communicating with children if that is the situation that people are in. So welcome to Jackie. Hello, welcome to the studio. Thank you so much for being here today. No, thank you for having me. So there are pleasure, four really specific areas that I want to get to grips with Jackie today on air. So all those listeners and you find yourself in that boat or you know, somebody else who's in that boat, dating after divorce has children or doesn't even have to be after a marriage, after a long term or short term relationship and there are children, it's really difficult to navigate finding the balance and getting back out there and bouncing back. So the four topics really are striking the balance. As a single parent, navigating modern dating as a single parent. So creating that, you know, sense of you time, the sense of getting back out there and also the sense of feeling the most confident version of yourself if it's not quite there for you. We're going to be talking about partnering again and parenting with a new partner, how that looks, especially if your ex partner's still on the scene, of course, if you've got children. And then we're going to figure it all out with Jackie. Fabulous. So much to get through. I know. Such an exciting episode. So tell me, Jackie, can we have it all and how do we have it all or do we have it all? You can absolutely have it all. You can have it all in the way that you want it. So long as you've got huge amounts of awareness around you and you know, you're actually taking into account your needs in balance with children's needs. Really interesting. So whose needs come first, the children's or yours? It's a big question. It is, it is. It's a very big question. I think there is the chicken and egg syndrome because as a parent you need to make sure that you've got all your needs satisfied to bring your best self to the table as a parent, but also you need to satisfy the children's needs to make sure that they're happy with where you're at. Yeah, it's really interesting. And when I was thinking about this show, I was thinking about the idea of I always talk about whose cup to fill first and should we be sat filling our own cups. Let's say, for example, as a case study, I was a single parent or you know, there were any single parents listening in who feel an air of guilt about taking that self care, striking that balance, and filling their own cup first. Should they be filling their children's cup first or should they be, you know, fulfilling the needs of the ex partner first to make sure there's a good balance in communication and upbringing or just, you know, filling one's own cup? That's the question. Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of self care, always put yourself first. Because if you don't put yourself first, then as I said before, you're not putting, you're not bringing the best version of you to the table. Whatever it is you're doing, whether it's work, whether it's relationship dating, whether it's personal life, you know, in any aspect, you've got to put yourself first. Because if you don't know what you want and what your values and what your needs are, then you can't possibly hope to strike that balance with happiness. And I guess my first thought on that would be if you're not putting yourself first and you're not filling your own cup first, then how do you, like you say, bring your best version? And how do you even have the energy to bring your best self to the table with your children or on a date, let's say, or with your family and friends? If you're not creating that space to create all those good vibes and feel fulfilled, energetic, then how can you do that? So let's say, you know, as a single parent, let's say I'm a busy professional too, and I have the guilt and I'm carrying around guilt in the sense. And what I mean by that is guilt of not fulfilling my role in my professional position, or is it guilt that I'm not being the best version of a parent that I feel I could be? Or is it guilt that I'm neglecting, you know, myself and my needs and my wants for a relationship? How do you eradicate those feelings of guilt that we all carry around in different ways? And you Know, it can be transitional guilt from one thing to another. What are your thoughts on guilt? Can you expand on what I'm saying at all? I don't think that's a really big question, Sarah. I don't think you can ever avoid guilt in any form in your life because we are socially and family conditioned to do that right from the point of birth right up until the age of that we're at when we experience that guilt, because we experience lots of different situations. So I think it's about finding a place with the guilt where you are happy and where you can accept it and where it doesn't impact on your day to day functioning. And how does that look? How can you find. You say find a way. How do we. So say I'm in denial about feeling guilty and I don't know what the weight is that I'm carrying around with me a feeling that perhaps, let's say I'm not fulfilling, that I'm feeling like I'm being stretched in my bandwidth across all areas of my life. How do I first come to terms with acknowledging that it's guilt if that's the space I'm in? And I think that, yeah, that's a really important question because it's about emotional literacy and it's about how we acknowledge and what we interpret and what's going on inside of us and our ability to actually acknowledge and recognise that and then to reduce that down to words that we can understand and to actually label it so is that we can identify where we're at with it. And that is the starting point. Once we do that, that's where the fun begins because you then start to look at, why do I feel that? What's that about? Where does that originate? So it's kind of creating an aha moment in one's own life. So if I am a single parent and I'm feeling at my absolute bandwidth with everything that I'm doing, I'm feeling, for lack of a better word, overwhelmed. I feel overwhelmed and I just want to eradicate the sense of overwhelming all different areas so I can fill my cup, fill my child's cup and I guess start my own path and find, you know, find a partner. Because that's what I want. That's why, you know, anyone tuning into this show, how. How do we start to navigate the goal setting of that and also the, you know, the balancing of one's time when I'm working my 40, 50 hours a week and then looking after my child. Okay, so that's, yeah, how do we start that? Well, we start, I think I like to do it by reverse engineering. So I like to look at the goal that we have at the end of it, what are we hoping to achieve? And then I reverse engineer how I'm going to get to that point. And certainly, you know, when we're doing that, we break it down into manageable chunks, small chunks, manageable chunks and things that we can identify with within that journey. When we're breaking it down, we actually find other things. We make all these little discoveries that are pretty amazing. Those aha moments. Absolutely. And those aha moments are the things that bring us that self care and that real self satisfaction, that real feeling of just feeling at one with yourself and your world. So is that you can go out there and be really confident and know that you're bringing your best version of yourself to the table. Yeah. And I was thinking about this show and having you on and you know, often we talk about building confidence and getting back out there, but you know, it's not so often that we do have shows specific about being a new single with children and how to navigate the complexities of that. And I was trying to put myself in the shoes of somebody that might listen to this show and I was thinking, well, what. What's holding me back? So let's say there are listeners in what, what kind of questions might they be asking themselves about getting back out there and what kind of things might they be telling themselves that's holding them back from, you know, living a life that they, they really love? So there might be a number of things and everybody's situation will be completely different. But if I just give you one example, you've got a woman who's come out of a marriage, you know, she knows it's at the end of it, she's happy where she's at being single, she would like to get into another relationship, but actually she knows she's got the children's needs to balance. She's got the needs of her ex partner who's still involved in the children's lives. And she's got all these different balls in the air that she's trying to juggle. And when you look at that, that's actually not an easy job to do. And I think the big question within all of that is, do I really want to be in a relationship or do I want to be dating? Do I want to have something that's more fun or do I want something more serious? Do I want. You know, there's lots of different Questions that you can ask yourself to identify exactly what it is you want to identify the place where you're at so that you can start peeling it back then and finding out how you're going to get there. And later on in the show, we're going to be speaking with Jackie about how to figure it all out and find one's path to partnering if that's there for them, and how to ask those questions because Jackie, we're going to find out all about what she does and how she works with people and how she helps people get to grips with finding their way through the chaos with children. So it's really exciting to have you on the show because my first thoughts was it's not just about mindset when it comes to finding a partner. It's all the practicalities of juggling the day to day life. And I guess that's where you really come in with your clients, come in with your workshops, helping people strike that balance to get back out there. Am I right? Yeah. I'm not just making that up. No. And to actually navigate the problems that you will find because we're humans and as humans, we all make mistakes and we've got to live those mistakes and we've got to ride the waves of those mistakes and we've got to learn. And that's the fantastic opportunity that's presented to you when you are actually given this. Okay, so after the break, we're going to be talking with Jackie about navigating modern dating as a single parent and getting back out there. But first and foremost, before we hop onto the break, Jackie, can you tell us three top tips to navigate your mindset? Three top tips. So I would look at the goal that you want at the end of it, chunk it right the way back down into manageable steps and then once you've done that, identify what obstacles are actually in your way to stop you achieving those steps. Incredible. So exciting to have you on the show. Ladies and gents, listening in, I am Sarah Louise Ryan and today we're talking about dating after divorce with children. And we've got Jackie Sansom in the studio and we're talking about going from powerless to powerful parenting on Love Lessons live in Covent Garden. And we'll be right back after the break. Welcome to women's radio station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station Supporting Women's Wellbeing. 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I am here with the wonderful Jackie Sansom and we are talking about dating after divorce, when there are children involved and you want to navigate the path to partnering, but you're feeling a bit unsure how to strike the balance between time and pressures and expectations and all of that stuff that we have in our lives, but are actually sometimes just in our heads. So welcome back to Jackie. Thank you. So lovely to have you here. So, just before the break, we were talking about striking the balance, practicing a bit of self care and also mastering your mindset. So one thing I want to jump in with right now, before we talk about navigating modern dating, is how to cultivate confidence as a new single, as a single parent, if it's somewhat for them by the wayside, because I guess, you know, for those who have children, maybe they're in relationships that they thought was going to be their forever love or their forever relationship or their forever marriage, because that's why people get married. And so this is a new path, a new chapter that is somewhat, perhaps unexpected. And so how to navigate that if your confidence feels a bit chipped away because you're in a new place that you never thought you'd be, what are your thoughts on that? My personal thoughts are that you need to take time, firstly for you, you need to recover, you need to do your own stuff, you need to make sure that you're safe in the world that you live in and to make sure that the, the children are safe, because absolutely, they are having huge shifts in their life. You're having huge shifts in your life. You're coming out of a partnership and suddenly find yourself single. Your children suddenly find themselves without another parent and then they're dividing their time with the other parent. That's difficult for you because where you would have shared events, going out for the day and such, like you're suddenly having to let your children go off for the day with your partner, which previously you would have viewed as an opportunity for a break, but now it's, well, I don't really know if I'm happy about that and how do I feel that time when they're out with him or her, whoever the primary carer is. So there's huge dynamics that go on around that. Gosh, yes. Just putting myself in the shoes of somebody that would be in that position. I guess there are a mixed bag of feelings that would arise out of having that free time that one wouldn't normally have. Absolutely. I mean, what would you recommend to fill that time with? How do we practice a lot of self love and self care in that spare time that we have ended up with? So I think you can do little steps such as treating yourself to huge bubbly baths and you know, girls nights or boys nights. That's really important, you know, so is that you can regroup with your friends and help you to build your confidence in that way. There's other steps that you can take to occupy yourself by doing any events that hobbies things that you enjoy, whether that's going to the gym, whether that is, I don't know, spirit, whatever your thing is, you know, building on those. Because within those tasks or things that you're doing, you're actually meeting like minded people who are then the perfect people that you need to spend time with in the future. You know, what just came up for me then was put again putting myself in the shoes of somebody that might be in that situation is that actually I've spent so much time thinking about others first my partner being the CEO of a household, you know, running the diaries of the kids, all of that stuff. Having a business or being an employee and working, you know, the 40, 50 hours a week. How do I then find what my passions are? What if I've lost myself? I feel. Oh, sorry, let me be more specific. I feel like I've lost myself. I don't know what my passions are. So I think the starting step for that is to look back at what you used to enjoy before you went into the relationship and find out whether or not that still applies to you. Look at things that you used to do together with your partner and whether that's still something that you want to do or whether you were doing it because you were in the relationship. Is it something that you really want to do or is it something that you were doing because of the relationship? And it's about identifying who you are, what you want and what you're about really. So often in relationships, obviously to make them work, we compromise on a lot of things and things that we'd like to do. You know, taking our partner's interests into accountability a lot of the time. And so oneself could be lost amongst all of that. Absolutely. And one could also develop new interests as a Result of that. Things that we really enjoy. Yeah. That we didn't know we would. So I guess if just thinking aloud on that, I would probably sit down and, you know, pour myself a glass of wine or a really nice cup of tea and write down a list of all the things I want to do, I've always wanted to do and never had the chance to do. Absolutely. I love doing things like mind mapping. So you start off with you in the centre and then you start writing all these things around the outside of you that you know you could. And when you start to get into that and certainly when you've got a glass of wine on board, you know, if that's your thing, you start to creatively flow. And when you start to creatively flow and you start to enjoy yourself, you start to find the things that you really, really enjoy. And sometimes we're quite surprised at what comes out on those mind mapping charts. So just scraping back to what you were saying before about, you know, getting out there, meeting new people. I guess if you sit and do your mind, your me mind map about what it is that you might enjoy or you think you might enjoy because you've never tried it, getting out there, you do meet those like minded people who are in the same boat trying new things. So Jackie, I know that you have a daughter yourself because obviously Jackie and I always chit chat or I'm always chit chatting to the guest before the show. And Jackie does have a daughter and has been in relationships, you know, herself. Do you want to share some of your personal story? Is that okay? Yeah. About getting yourself back out there and I mean the struggles of the trials and tribulations or the fun that you had, whichever it was. So it was a mixed bag really. That was fun and there was not such fun times. There was lots of realizations, lots of growing. But more importantly, I got to know more about me and who I was and what I wanted within that journey and what my limitations were and you know, how capable I was. And I also got to learn a lot of self respect and self love within that journey. And some of that came by way of some not so nice events and some of it came by having lots of fun, going out, doing the dating thing. So my biggest revelation within all of that was my daughter was very poorly and was in hospital for quite a time. And at the point that it became very crucial for her, I had a huge insight into the fact that I had invested way too much of myself in being a single mother, focusing on her needs rather than my own and actually throwing myself heavily into my career so as that I didn't have to think too much about my personal life, which created a huge imbalance for me and was a huge revelation when I actually sat back and saw that reflecting at me when the chips were down, let's say. So it was, it was difficult to actually acknowledge that, but in the acknowledging of it, it actually prompted me and inspired me to go out there and to start making moves and putting myself out there, start getting more social. It gave me the courage to actually take those big steps. And those big steps meant that I had lots of fun going out on dates and meeting other people. And some of them worked, some of them didn't. Either way, it was lots of fun. I was going to say it sounds like you had a lot of fun in the process. I guess like you say as well, when the chips are down, that's when, you know, realizations do come up. And what came up for me, listening to your story was that it sounds like you were totally, you know, everyone else's support system that you started to think about where was your support system and did you want to meet someone and have, you know, create your own. And one thing that I found really interesting that you mentioned before is that being single, getting out of your comfort zone, getting back out there, meeting new people, having new experiences, you started to create a really clear awareness of your boundaries and your self respect. Does that mean that after being in a long term relationship, you kind of lost your way with your boundaries and self respect or you just got more clear, clearer than ever before? I think personally for me, I lost myself very much in the relationship and we sort of morphed into one person. And because we morphed into one person, there was a lot of me personally that was lost. A lot of what I loved, a lot of what I should have been or could have been was lost. And yeah, the revelation of rediscovering myself was lovely. Oh, I bet. And so how did you make the decision to get back out there in terms of strategy, for lack of a better word, did you think, I'll go on all of the apps? Did you think, that's out of my comfort zone and I'll go, I'll be in real life and meet people in real time? I mean, what was it for you? How did it work? So I think it was a combination of things. You know, I looked at dating sites because there weren't so many apps around at this time. And we're going back a couple of Years, Sarah. But, you know, there weren't so many apps, but there were dating sites and it was going on those dating sites, it was going out and putting myself out there and making the effort to go out more socially with people, with friends. And it was about really developing a level of confidence around being out there and being authentic in myself. And what does being authentic look like when you're a new single and you've kind of, you know, you'd lost a sense of self, let's say, and you wanted to get back out there? How did being confident look? I mean, what did you. And being authentic, how so, I think did you tell your story? Well, personally, for me, there was an element of fake it till you make it begin with everything. It works. I didn't feel confident at all because it was something I hadn't done for a long time. And, you know, it was a case of putting myself out there and managing it, which was fine. But once I actually got the first couple of hurdles out the way, it was, you know, it was a lot of fun to actually engage with people and you knew what you were doing. I almost want to ask you tons of questions about why it was so fun and, you know, all the stuff that you got. So we've got so much to get through on the show. So for those of you just tuning in, this show is about dating after divorce with children. We have got the wonderful founder of Powerless to powerful parenting, Jackie Sansom in the studio today. And we've just been talking about striking the balance as a, I guess a new single, as a parent who is single and also navigating modern dating. Jackie, just give us a quick fire round of three top tips to navigate modern dating as a single parent. Oh, gosh, Sarah put me on the spot. So I think fake it till you make it. Build confidence and have fun. Have lots of fun. I am Sarah Louise Ryan here on Love Lessons live in the studio. 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For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's well being. Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back to Love Lessons live in the studio in Covent Garden. Hello to everyone across the pond, hello to everyone in the uk, hello to everyone listening. Actually, thanks for tuning in. So I'm here with the wonderful Jackie Sansom and today we're talking about dating after a divorce. It doesn't have to be a Divorce, it could be a breakup. But the most important denominator in this is that there are children involved and how to navigate being single, getting back out there, but also striking the balance between really great parenting on the path to partnering. So welcome back to Jackie. Thank you. Before the break, we talked about a couple of things. We talked about striking the balance and we also talked about how to navigate the path to modern, modern dating. And Jackie shared some snippets into her insight of dating the good, the bad and the ugly. Ish. And so now I really want to talk about, you know, the instance where you have found someone that you think is really smashing. And you know, you're dating, you see things going well. You've actually cultivated the confidence to make time for yourself and build this partnership with someone. However, you've got a child and now you're like, oh gosh, when is the right time to introduce them? And all these questions come into your mind, like, will my ex partner get along with them? How is this communication going to go down? And you start to build resistance around those questions. So have you got any initial thoughts about what we're going to talk about before I jump into my 10 million questions? So I would say to just jump into the questions because as a former divorce lawyer, children, you've seen it all. Yeah. I can tell you I've dealt with most of it in court and it's not easy to navigate it and it does require a degree of commitment to the whole process. Yeah. And really good communication, I guess. Absolutely. So first intricate question about it is what to do if I'm ready to introduce my partner, my new partner to my child. When is the right time and is there ever a right time? What do you think? I think the right time happens at different times for different people because there will be different dynamics going on in every relationship and it will depend on what those personal dynamics are. You've got to, as a parent, know when the time is right for your child. And you, you know, if you're in any doubt whatsoever about that, then you need to be looking at a deeper level about what your relationship with that child and how to communicate with that child is. And you also need to take into account your former partner's views on this because ultimately he is the other parent. At one point, regardless of where you are right now, at one point you two had a joint mission and that was to bring this little human being into your lives and to make sure that little human being grew up into a well rounded adult. And the last thing you want to do now and you want your partner to do now is to create problems that sabotage that outcome. Right. So in this instance, when, you know, it feels a little bit difficult to navigate and it is a little bit more intricate than just, you know, the getting back out there, it's what to do when you found that person. Is it the case that at this point we start to fill the cup of the child more than our own cup? Is that right? Absolutely. I think there is that element of it. I think it's also about considering what your new partner's needs are as well, because your new partner may have children that need to be taken into account. And of course, he will have a former partner that needs to be taken into account too. So it gets quite complex when trying to work all of this out. And, you know, when you're looking at spending time together, it's about catering to everybody's needs and, you know, meeting the children's needs within that. So do you go to a theme park like Chessington park, or do you go for a nature trail, you know, which is going to satisfy which and which is going to make everybody happy in that moment. So it's an enjoyable time and it's fun. Do you know what? There is no actual rule book as to what to do in these situations. Absolutely. So what do we do when we feel like we're getting it all wrong, that everyone else has done it better or differently, and we have this analysis paralysis if we feel that we're stuck in our own minds and that we're not doing it the way that it's, you know, should be done or whatever other people have done it? I mean, what do you think about that? Getting in our own heads? Yeah. The first thing is stop comparing yourself to everybody else, because everybody's journey is completely different, and everybody's journey is their own. So what works for one person is not necessarily going to work for the next person. The next thing is connection. You've got to connect with your child. And if there's any doubt whatsoever around that connection with that child that makes that child feel insecure in that moment, then that's where you need to start making them feel secure, reassure them, build that connection and help them to accept that life is moving on and there will be stumbling blocks. Yeah. And for anyone listening in, that's just tuned in. Jackie is the founder of powerless to powerful parenting, and she really helps create secure, happy, fulfilled environments for parents and children living obviously together, but also they have separate lives, and there's different, you know, there's the adult life and there's the life of the child. And so I wanted to touch on a question that has come up about what to do if one child doesn't like the new partner. What do we do then? Well, that's always a difficult one because you've got to get to the root of why the child doesn't like the new partner. Is it because he's angry that his daddy or his mummy is not around anymore? Is it because he genuinely doesn't like the new partner? Is it because there are problems with the blended family situation and he doesn't like his partner's or mum's or dad's new partner's children? There could be many reasons, but the only way you're going to get to the bottom of that is by communication with your child and actually doing that in a way that you set your own agenda aside. Because we all have parental agendas and it's those parental agendas that help drive the outcome of conversations, if we're not careful, that achieve an outcome that satisfies us but doesn't satisfy the child. So essentially, aside from all of the, you know, the other intricacies and the conversations that come with it, it's a rupture in the routine, the normal, the norm routine. I mean, nothing's quite normal. You know, there is no set way, but in the. In the consistency of a routine that's now changed and it's ruptured. And so it's navigating that and having really clear communication. Is that right? Yeah. And it's helping that child to feel secure in its new environment and its new surroundings. And that could be very easy if everybody is communicating, everybody's on the same page and we're all talking about the same thing with no different agendas that are going to sabotage the outcome, which is absolutely essential. If you've got somebody who's off on a tangent or off on their own frolic and they are sabotaging the outcome then, which does happen, unfortunately, then that's where, you know, it becomes more difficult to navigate and manage and thinking of the children. Is there any specific age range where we need to be having a different type of conversation? So, you know, is it a below, you know, X age where we're speaking to them in layman's terms on, you know, xyz? And then is it when they get to teens, we speak in adult? I mean, you know, more. You're the expert in this field. But I just thought, you know, on service level, they're all different ages and digest information differently. So how to navigate that same conversation in different ways for different age groups? Is it relevant to us that. Absolutely, yeah. Because a five year old won't interpret what you're saying in the same way that a teenager will. A teenager will have developed his own or her own fears around the situation and they will be less open, let's say, to people generally because they have different life experiences to a five year old. A five year old is likely to be more open to whether a person is right or wrong or good or bad. But equally that five year old is likely to be more in touch with his own intuition. So, you know, there are different agendas that go on with different age children. What do we do if it's not our child that dislikes our new partner, but it's our ex partner? And things are becoming a little bit more difficult than we'd imagined if our ex partner doesn't like our new partner. Ah, right, I see. So if there's a dynamic going on between the old partner and new partner, that really is a case where we've got to find some sort of middle road. And again, good communication and sitting everybody down and assuring that we all have the same outcome. Because if you're serious about your new partner and you want a future with your new partner, then your new partner needs to learn to compromise, to be within you, within the relationship with you. And your ex partner needs to learn to compromise, to actually work that for the benefit of the children. So it is about the adults being grown up here and actually taking responsibility for their part in setting their own personal agendas aside. Don't forget, we're multifaceted, faceted when it comes to our personalities. So we have lots of different Personas that drive us. And those different Personas will actually show up in some ways, in some situations really effectively. In other situations they won't. But they will always require a counterpart. And it's the counterpart and the Persona that actually causes the problem. So if we can set those aside and actually get down to the brass tacks of the conversation about what the outcome is and what the agenda is around that, then you can find a solution. I guess what I'm hearing is speaking factually rather than through our feelings would be the best way to navigate those tough conversations. Absolutely. But you've got to find, you've got to navigate the feelings to get to that point. Because if you don't navigate the feelings, those feelings will keep popping up and they will keep biting your bottom and they will keep showing up and they will keep generating that behaviour that sabotages the outcome. So it's really important to acknowledge what's going on there, what's at the root of your agenda. You know, if you are in this sabotaging behavior and ultimately your child is suffering as a result of that, you've got to find out why, what's driving your behaviour in that situation. I guess thinking about all the different scenarios that could crop up when you've got a child and you've got a new partner. One thing that I was thinking, if things didn't end so well in your previous relationship, which you know can often be the case, you know how to. How to not resist and do things out of resentment and do things in a really platonic and practical way. I am Sarah Louise Ryan. I'm here on Love Lessons talking to the wonderful Jackie Sansom. We're talking about dating after divorce, about striking the balance, navigating the path to love, finding love and then having those tough conversations, if they are tough indeed, with our ex partner, with our children and with our family. Jackie, so wonderful to have you on the show so far. Thank you for having me. And after the break, we're gonna be talking about figuring it all out with Jackie, how to go from powerless to powerful parenting. And we'll be answering the question that I've just been asking her. If you're tuned in, welcome to Women's radio station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on women's radio station. Hello and welcome. Welcome to future Classic Women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. 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We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org you're listening to Women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's Radio station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadio station that's Womens Radio STN or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back to Love Lessons live here in the studio in Covent Garden. Today has been a wonderful show. So far we're talking about dating after divorce or a relationship when it ends when there are children involved. So far we've covered a lot of good stuff. Striking the balance as a new single, becoming a confident single when you know things such as confidence have fallen by the wayside. We've also talked about navigating modern dating as a single parent and the intricacies of that, as well as navigating the intricacies of maybe your child doesn't like your new partner, maybe your ex partner doesn't like your new Partner. And now we've got Jackie Sansom back on air where we're going to be talking about figuring it all out and going from feeling a little bit powerless, in fact, to becoming a powerful parent in the dating process. So welcome back. Jackie, thank you. So just before the break, I, not so timely, asked you the question which I knew was going to be a whole load of things to talk about after what to do when, you know, we're in that difficult situation where our ex partner doesn't like our new partner and their children involved. How to do things not out of resent, but do things because it's meaningful and it means something and it matters rather than they hurt me. And so I'm going to do this rather than using children or new partners as pawns in this process. How can we navigate it positively? So I think again, that pretty much encompasses the whole powerful parenting program for me, because that's the very, very basis of where I'm at. I deal with parents who are in conflict, whether it's conflict within the relationship or it's conflict with the child, but it's how it impacts on your relationship with the child. Now, clearly as parents, we've got to make sure that we're able to navigate conflict within the context of parenting. And to do that, the first thing you've got to do is you've got to recognise and really dig deep to find out who you are. Whilst you're finding out who you are, you then start to develop skills and techniques. And I use quite a lot of mindfulness and neuroscience in my program. So using the skills and techniques to be able to manage and navigate what comes up for you and find strategies to actually deal with what comes up up for you, that work for you and work for the other parent, but most of all work for the child and bring the right outcome for the child. One thing that's just come up for me then is mindfulness. It's a really big word in 2018, 19 and I guess certainly going into 2020, mindfulness has associations with things like meditation, self care and all of that. But in the same breath, you also talk about being strategic. How can you be mindful in a situation such as this as well as strategic in your parenting? What do you mean by that? It's a step by step process. So to be able to be strategic, you've got to understand what's going on, what the foundations are. And if you don't understand what the foundations are, any strategic plan, no matter how fantastic it is, is going to fail. In an outcome because it's built on foundations that are not firm. So if you understand what is at the root of any sabotaging behaviour, any agendas, any resentment, then you can be, you can learn skills to manage that. And that's where the strategies come in place. Really interesting. So it sounds to me that in the, you know, overwhelming process of, you know, working or running a business, having a child, navigating difficult communication with your ex partner, creating good communication with your new partner, you know, going through all that, it sounds like you've just got to take step and a moment back to really analyze what is that, all those root causes. You have to stop a minute really. That dovetails into the self care. Because when you get really present with what's going on inside you and you get mindful about what's happening, it's about getting present to what's happening for you, what emotions are coming up and how that shows up in your body. So is that you can learn when that's happening in the future. So is that you recognize your triggers, that's where the strategies then come into place. Because when you recognize what those triggers are, you know, you can implement those strategies to help manage that in the future. So a moment ago, you know, we're talking about the root cause and say that something we talked about before the break, an example feeling, negative feeling, if I had to dub it something would be resentment towards an ex partner or an ex, you know, or a previous scenario that didn't serve me. How do I really get to grips with the root cause of that? And how do you help people navigate their way out of the place that they're in that isn't serving them? Personally, I have a number of skills that I use. So I'm an advanced EFT practitioner, I'm a matrix re imprinting practitioner. I'm also an NLP practitioner, I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and I'm a lawyer. So I dig deep. I don't give you any wriggle room when it comes to answering those questions. I challenge you and challenge your thought processes, but I also help you to navigate that and to get around that and to find strategies that work as solutions for that. Do you know what, when you were telling me all of the, you know, the academic achievements just then I was thinking, gosh, you sound so holistic in practice, but also, I guess as a lawyer you're pretty straight talking. Yeah. You know, when it comes to being, for lack of a better term, at the front of my mind right now, woo woo. And holistic and empathetic and all of those things. You also need someone to just give it to you straight, absolutely straight. But also taking into account the bigger picture. The bigger picture and the difficulties of navigating a brand new chapter. Or if it's not new to you today, it's been difficult for you to navigate so fast that you're now deciding to take the bull by the horns and get clear on what's holding you back from living a life that you really love. Yeah. And you've got this little person whose needs and expectations you're trying to manage too, within the confines of a whole new situation, in a whole new world for him or her. And being mindful of the that fact. Fact that whatever you do and however you navigate this situation is going to have a greater impact on their life going forward. Especially when it comes to conflict, communication, empathy. I mean, these are, I'm no expert in your field, but these are just things that are coming up for me right now as I'm thinking, trying to put myself in a parent's shoes, a child's shoes. Like it's, you know, it's intricate and it's interesting. It's so essential. I mean, we've all had that experience where we've walked into a room when our parents were arguing, when we were talking children and they might have stopped shouting each other or arguing with each other. We all felt that energy, we all felt that atmosphere. Call it what you like, whatever label you want to give it, it's there. We knew it as children. And it's that element of communication and teaching children that we can be fallible as human beings, but we can put it right as your parent, you know, we can do that. That actually teaches our children huge core skills for the future for them. They're just little sponges, aren't they? Soaking it all in. And you know, the more I think about the idea of filling one's cup first in order to give the energy, when you really get into it, you think, gosh, I just want to fill the little child's cup. So no wonder it's difficult to strike that really crucial balance of creating a wonderful life for you and your child. And I know that that's your profession and it's your expertise where you create this secure, happy, fulfilled environment for both parents and children. Now, I wanted to ask you more about your work so far. You've given us such valuable advice, but how, if I was going through, you know, I'm a listener, I'm going Through everything that we've been talking about, what do you do and how can I come to you and how do you help people? What are all the different offerings, let's say? So I have a number of ways that I deliver the powerful parenting program. I deliver it in workshops, either on a one to one basis, in one to one coaching. It depends on what your package is, what your needs are. I do workshops that are very intimate. They. They don't have anything more than 10 people because the work we do is quite deep and it's intensive. So we do those one days and I'm just starting to look at rolling out two days because there's more value in the two days one, simply because we go deeper into each stage. It's five key stages. I was going to ask you that. Sorry, it looked like I was really interrupted, but I just thought, gosh, there must be so much to cover in two days. Is it a journey that you're taking them on, to push forward for progress? What is it? Yeah, so we've touched on some of it here. So the first stage is really about getting to know the real you. As I said, we're multifaceted, so we dig deep. We find out all of who you really are, why you interact, what's your social conditioning, where do you come from, from what drives you, what doesn't drive you, what pushes your buttons. So we look at all of that, then we look at the why and the how in the next stage, and we look at how to manage that and what our triggers are around that. Then for the next stage, we look at the impact factor, which is how that impacts on people around us. You know, when we're interacting with people, how do you. We might think our behavior is completely reasonable, but actually the person on the receiving end may not feel it's so reasonable. And it's what the impact is and how the two of those different energies resonate together. From that, we then discover. We then create what I call the success strategy. And that's bespoke programming. It's about what works for you and your family. Because every family is different. Every family has their own needs. And then the final step is about implementation with support. So we support you during that journey because it doesn't matter who you are. You're going to fall down, you're going to scrape your knees, and the last thing I want you to do when you fall down and scrape your knees is not give up because the outcome is so important, so interesting, so many things that you said just then on the journey that you take people through and you know, on the workshops, one to one and all of that, what came up for me just then is that obviously we always think we're right, else we wouldn't say the words that we say aloud or in our minds because we think we're right. I mean, it's not always well received by the other person or in their minds. Correct. But we say what we think is right, else we wouldn't say it at all. So it's difficult to understand how our children are perceiving what we're saying, our ex partner, our new partner. And so it's how we're, how we're showing up, how we're being heard. You know, the perception, having that self awareness coming to you is a real like hands in the air saying, you know what, this isn't working. I need to do something different to get to a different space that I want to be in. And I think that is such incredible work. You must see such an impact. If you had to give us top three tips to kind of cap off this whole wonderful episode of Love Lessons about dating after divorce, about being a powerful parent but also enjoying the process of finding a new partner, what would it be? So it's really about noticing and getting to know who you are, developing your emotional literacy so that you can actually deal with that and turn that around. And then it's about how you change that. Jackie Sansom, thank you so much. You can find Jackie on powerlesstopowerfulparenting.co.uk or I'm Sarah Louise Ryan here on Love Lessons. This has been a wonderful show. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. 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