Love Lessons LIVE SHOW – Caroline Brealey, How To Become A Successful Matchmaker

Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons here at women's radio station Today. I'm here with Caroline Brealey, a serial dating industry entrepreneur. And we're going to be talking about how to build and grow and look after singles in the world by running a wildly successful matchmaking agency. So Caroline Brealey is this one wonderful woman who has been in the dating industry since about 2011, but I'm sure she'll tell you in a moment. And she has built her very own matchmaking agency by spotting a gap and a need in the London market, and thereafter trained many female and gents, I believe, to run matchmaking agencies in and around London and Europe. So welcome, Caroline. Thank you. What an amazing introduction. My goodness, I've got to live up to that now. Oh, my gosh. Well, it's all you. It's all you. That's what you've been doing. What is it? Since 2011, or am I right or wrong? No, it is. It's been since 2011. And I always joke, if you could see a picture of me then compared to now, my goodness, the years have not been kind. Let's just say that's what matchmaking does to you. Anyone who's interested in going into matchmaking needs to know that up front. Okay, perfect. Thanks for that. So, Caroline, tell us a little bit about your journey into the matchmaking industry because this show is a little bit different for the listeners. We normally talk about dating, relationships, heartbreaks, starting over again, and all that jazz for any singles and those, you know, looking for a serious relationship to listen into. But this is all about building a business within the dating industry, which is huge, Huge. But we're talking offline and not online. So tell us a little bit about your journey. Yeah. So I think like most matchmakers, I kind of started out by, you know, being single myself and dating and having good experiences, bad experiences. I was doing online dating apps, weren't even around them scarily enough, and it wasn't even that long ago, but I just kind of was having a mixed bag with. With dating in London, which is quite hard. You think there's so many people, but it's actually very, very challenging. And a friend of mine just happened to ment he had used a matchmaker. And I was like, oh, my gosh, who uses matchmakers these days? You know, I hadn't even heard of them. It wasn't on my radar off I went to do my research and, you know, just kind of open this whole new world. And I was like, that is so cool. But one of the things I found was a lot of the matchmakers at the time were quite old fashioned. They were geared towards kind of maybe people looking for second time love. So divorcees in their 50s, for example, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But one thing I thought was, hmm, there's nothing really here for people maybe in their 30s or late 20s, 40s. And so kind of the idea of mutual attraction came about. But, you know, I hadn't had any experience of matchmaking apart from matching my friends, which, you know, I think most matchmakers do. That's kind of often how they start. So. So kind of mutual attraction was born through an idea. And, you know, here we are seven years later and still going strong. Wow. And so how did you, how did you start out building your very own matchmaking agency? I mean, how did it come about? Because obviously, without knowing too much about matchmakers being out there as a service, how did you then, as a young female entrepreneur, go out there and start building such a successful matchmaking agency? Inevitably, looking back, I kind of, I joked that I did things kind of back to front and the wrong way round because I didn't really know. I didn't have any experience in building matchmaking business or any business. You know, my background was working with children with disabilities. So it's a very different thing for me to do. And the first kind of step I did was, oh, I need a website. So I went and spent way too much money having a website done and kind of thought, oh, once the website's up, that's it, you know, I get clients and then, and then I start and then I worry about the rest later. And of course you put a website up and actually nobody came because I needed to generate traffic to that website. So it was a slow process. It wasn't like one that happened overnight. And I had to learn a lot through each different stage of kind of launching. But it started off really with doing the website and then I decided to do some PR to get some clients, which I did. And then it was like, oh, gosh, now I've got a matchmaker, now I've got to go out and find singles. So one of the things I always say to our graduates, to our trainees, sorry, is build your network of single people as soon as you can. Because I started basically with zero people, which is how we all start. But I took on clients with no people in my network and that was more challenging. Right. So you start to build your networking skills and your network so you can then build an agency that will be hopefully successful, I'm sure. So Caroline, can you tell me little bit about your demographic, your target market? Because I know that you've helped people internationally, but predominantly I believe that you're in London. Tell us a bit about that. Yeah, that's right. So we are a London based dating agency and we work with single professionals and we're kind of open and fluid on age, but it tends to be really people from late 20s, early 30s onwards. And I'd say our core kind of group is people looking for first time love or you know, first time marriage, potentially looking to have children. So it tends to be that 30s, early 40s, that is our main kind of clientele. They're all single professionals, you know, great jobs, happy in life, but they're missing that someone to enjoy it with. And then we do have older clients as well, but certainly our core is that that kind of 30s category where they're going, you know, I don't want to say time is ticking, but that is what they're thinking. And I would like to get married and have children. It's not yet happened for me. So I'm going to now invest in myself and invest in my dating life and really be proact to try and meet someone special. So it sounds to me like it's a lot of busy single professionals who work really hard, they're time poor and they're serious in the search and wanting to settle down. Is that right? Absolutely, yeah. Time poor really is the key thing. So I believe like, you know, as you know and everyone that listens in knows that I worked in the matchmaking industry for a very long time and there was huge demand. Can you tell us why is there such a huge demand for matchmakers? Especially, you know, back then when you were looking to find love and you didn't know about matchmakers, it seems to me like there's been a surge over recent years. How has online perhaps impacted the demand for matchmaking service offline? I think it has helped and it's surprising because so many people say like, oh gosh, who would pay those fees to join a dating agency? And you know, why do people need a matchmaker when there's a free app? You can go on Tinder, but I think like anything in life, there's different levels of service and some people will always prefer a more luxury service. But I think the key thing is actually a lot of people go on apps and dates and they become disillusioned, they become fed up and I Think when you are working with people who are really serious about meeting someone, you know, after three or four rubbish dates of people who are just looking for a hookup or, you know, not really serious about finding long term love, then they just like, this isn't working for me, I need a better alternative. And I think the appeal for single professionals with matchmakers is that actually everyone they meet is already at that same stage in life. They know they're ready for a relationship, they want to meet someone, they know they're going to meet somebody who wants children and is in that right stage in their life. And I think that's such a big draw for single professionals. So I guess that people are getting a lot of burnout through dating. A lot of people who perhaps don't want the same thing as them, perhaps not on the same page or have the same values as them, but they're just, you know, kind of playing this online dating game and then you've got one person on one hand who's serious to settle down, matching with somebody who doesn't have the same intentions. So you kind of eliminate all of the emotional weight attached to dating the wrong people, I guess. Absolutely. And all the legwork. We find people, you know, so you don't have to sit on an app trawling through, you know, we find the people for you and we'll introduce you. So yeah, for time poor professionals, it's a bit of a winner really. So can you tell me when people contact you at Mutual Attraction? So what's the process? They get in touch with you and then what? So the first step is we either have a quick phone call just to kind of say hello, but then we meet them for coffee or cup of tea, as we say, and really get to know them, find out a bit more about what they're looking for, how they live their life. And that's really important for us as well, to be able to kind of tell them how we work and operate. Because matchmakers aren't for everyone. You know, some people like to have much more control and they want to be on a date every night, fine, but it's not going to happen with a matchmaker. So it's a great time to kind of explain how we work to get to know them and to decide if one we do think we can help them or not because we're really conscious to only take on people we genuinely believe we can help. And also for them to have all the information so they know exactly what they're buying into. If they join up with the matchmaker. And then if they do decide to join, you know, we give them a bit of time to think about it. Then we kind of send them off for a photo shoot with Saskia, who I know you spoke to the other week, who's amazing at hey Saturday. We put them in touch with our dating coach, Laura Yates, and they have some coaching and then we get on with the good stuff, which is the matchmaking. So we'll be sharing profiles with them as people we think they should meet and hopefully getting them out on some dates. Amazing. So it sounds to me that you at Mutual Attraction and your team are really offering a quality over quantity in dates. So you're not promising a date every night. Like you can easily get on, you know, Bumble or Tinder or Happin or any of those good apps. You're really promising that you're going to match them with someone who has the same wants, values and are going to stimulate each other, I guess, intellectually, emotionally and all of that. Is that right? Absolutely. So, yeah, hopefully the dates will be really good dates and, you know, much more promising. I mean, apps and stuff are brilliant and I still love them, so I'm not knocking them, but certainly, you know, you're kind of cutting the chase and getting straight to the good ones. So, Caroline, if I say wanted to go out tomorrow and start a brand new matchmaking agency, could you give me top three tips for those who feel like they want to start a company such as yours but don't quite feel ready, if you could give us three tips, that'd be amazing. So I would say, number one, try and get an internship or get a bit of work experience working with a matchmaker because it's good to kind of see what it is actually like on a day to day basis. So Elle, who works with me at Mutual Attraction, she started out by doing an internship and loved it and we loved her, so she's now part of our company. I would say definitely do your research, grab a cup of tea, get your laptop, you know, have a Google, find matchmakers in your area, see how they work, how they operate, just to give you a feel for the industry and also thirdly, play matchmaker to your friends. It's a great way to kind of, kind of test out your skills and see how you actually are at matchmaking by roping in your friends and playing Cupid. Absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for that, Caroline. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan here on Love Lessons at Women's radio station. I've been talking to Caroline Brealey about how to start a wildly successful matchmaking agency. We will be right back. Welcome to women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. This is Women's Radio Station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism and my guest today is Karen no. Welcome to future Classical Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Women's Radio Station, we want to hear from you. I listen to women's radio station women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, my name is Katie Young Gerald and I'm the founder of Bespoke Textiles and author of best selling book the Textile Touch. I've been working in luxury fashion and textiles for over 25 years and I help brands design luxury bespoke uniforms to high end limited edition collections. We've been doing this for clients such as the Ivy Collection to Royal Households and we do it inside of a sustainable supply chain that saves waste. You can find us on bespoke textiles.co.uk. hi, I'm Liz Van Linden, a UK travel consultant for Hazelmere Travel. People come to me as they want unique experiences and a personalised service. This happens from the moment that they inquire till they come back home. I work with luxury tour operators. You can contact me on 078 and Liz spelt L I silmaretravel.co.uk Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help visit turntous.org.uk Women's radio station is a not for profit community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards a running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, Head of Business Development at Women's Radio station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-563-71483 or alternately zmnsradiostation.com. Hello I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back to Love Lessons on women's radio station. This is the show where we often discuss everything from dating, relationships, breakups, divorce and starting over again. But so exciting. Today we've got Caroline Brealey, who is the founder and matchmaker at Mutual Attraction. Caroline is here today to teach us how to start, build, grow, and perhaps even sell if you wish, a wildly successful matchmaking agency. So welcome back, Caroline. Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. It's so exciting. This is kind of like a business segment in the love sphere on Love Lessons. So it's great to have you. So now I want to talk a little bit about how to spot a gap in the market and how you decided to build the Matchmakers Academy online training to help those aspiring cupids out there build an agency and help so many singles wherever they might be. So tell us how you spotted the gap for the training. So when I decided I wanted to be a matchmaker, I was like, okay, well I'd love to get some kind of insight into what being a matchmaker is really like because it's not anything I've ever kind of done before and it's a bit scary starting a business and something that actually you have no experience of. And so I kind of, you know, looked around and I didn't find any training in the uk. There was some training, but it was in New York and it was quite expensive for two days and also I just missed it anyway, so it wasn't on for another year. So I was like, okay, well I'll just have to kind of, you know, piece it together myself, which I did and it was fine and I got there in the end. But actually I kind of thought, you know what, there, it would be great if there had have been something. And so I started off by just writing a book which I self published myself on Amazon, just about my own journey and experience into matchmaking with lots of kind of tips and very actionable advice for people who wanted to set up an agency. And I started getting quite a few emails from people saying this was really helpful. I really enjoyed it. And I just thought, hmm, I ended up giving too much advice away for free. I would be on the phone to people for hours, kind of helping them with building their own agency. I thought maybe there's a little business in itself here. And so I decided to put on a two day kind of live training weekend. I just kind of put the date out there and thought, well, let's see if anyone books on and they did. I had four people. So I created the program, I created the course and you know, we've not looked back from there. Wow. So did you manage to like pack out your course that weekend considering, you know, so many people were contacting you after just having the tenacity to self publish. I love first and foremost from that, from that little snippet how you said, oh well, you know, I just realized I had to piece it together. I'm sure a lot of people probably thought, oh well, that's an excuse to hold off my dreams and build a, build an agency next year. But you were like, oh well, you know, not hanging around, I'm just gonna do it myself. So that's amazing for a start. So did you manage to get quite a few aspiring Cupid that weekend? We did, so we had four. And just keeping in mind the training was, I think when we started out it was about 1 1/2 thousand pounds for the weekend because I decided very early on if I'm going to teach, you know, I've had to piece this together myself and I've had to spend a lot of money doing so because I've made a lot of mistakes and things like that, you know, then I'm not going to give it away for free. I do give a lot of information away for free. But actually for the main training I was like, this kind of needs to be worth my while and people are paying for my skills and expertise now. I've been matchmaking for several years when I, when I launched the training, so I wasn't a total novice myself by this point and I just thought, actually yeah, I'm probably creating competitors myself as well. So I priced it what I felt was a kind of fair price, but it didn't mean that only people who were serious about matchmaking came. So we had four people that weekend and it was great. You know, I remember kind of finishing the course off like about two hours before people turned up. But it turned out I needed a lot of content for two days and I was, I kind of over delivered a lot actually because I had so much information to share and I wanted to give them everything. And since then I've got better at honing in what are the key things to share. But that weekend was jam packed. I'll tell you. That's amazing. And I really love how you say, you know very clearly that you wanted to teach them how to build a matchmaking personal introductions agency, but actually you also wanted to teach them what to do, sorry, what not to do, and that is priceless, I do believe, because not only are they saving money, they're saving so much time, and that's the one thing you can't make more of. So I think it's amazing that you managed to do that. So tell me now, because I know that your training, it's gone from being offline, you know, having people in one room for a whole weekend and getting all that value, but you've now taken it online. Tell us a little bit about that. Yes. So the Matchmaker Academy online is an online course, and it's the same kind of content to our live kind of training weekends. But we were getting interest from people all over the world who wanted to become a matchmaker and wanted to do the course. But obviously traveling to London for a lot of people, you know, doesn't fit with maybe their life or it becomes too expensive because you've got the training course plus travel and accommodation and all those things. And so I thought maybe there's something in it here where I could, you know, record this as an online course and package it up and then people can do it as long as they have an Internet connection, wherever in the world they are. And that really has boosted the business hugely because a lot of people now do the online course. We have people doing it in China, we have people in Japan, America, Canada, all over Europe, because they can do it, you know, in the evenings. It fits around their lifestyle. If they've got children, they can do it with, the kids are in bed. If they work shifts, they can do it in the middle of the night whenever suits them best. So it's really been a positive thing for us launching the online course. So it sounds to me that you really tackled the issue that you kind of saw head on from the get go with having to do trainings in other parts of the world. But perhaps they only come around once a year. So what you're basically saying is that I will teach you how to build a matchmaking agency, but you can also do it on your own time, on your watch, when and as you choose. And so they can get started today or, you know, do a module every. Every week or month. I mean, how long would you say module takes, Caroline? Actually, it really depends because some modules are really big, like marketing and how to promote your matchmaking business, and some are smaller. And it depends because we say to people, it's totally up to you how you use the course and work through it. Some people like to listen to the whole course the whole way through, and then they go back and Start again from the first module and then kind of action the task. So what we have in the course is think we have 12 modules and within that there'll be lots of mini units. So a unit might be a video and a workbook, and that video might be half an hour and then a workbook with different tasks that will help guide you towards creating your business. The aim really is by the, by the time you've completed the course, you have everything you need, all the documents, you know, all the knowledge to really be up and going as a matchmaker. So it can take anything from a few weeks to, you know, a few months, depending on your time frame. And so when, when they've been through the modules, like, you know, you say there's, there's marketing, how to get started, what else can they expect, actually? So we start off with kind of what it's really like to be a matchmaker. And we hear from experienced matchmakers talking through what it's actually like, you know, not. Not the glam side of just swirling around, meeting singles for coffee. The reality is the admin, you know, dealing with some challenging clients, all those things to deciding your kind of matchmaking packages, which is actually quite complicated. You think it sounds really easy, I'm going to provide dates for people, but actually it's quite complicated. When you're selling a premium service, you really need to be clear what you're selling. And with dating, of course, it's so ambiguous, you've got to kind of pin it down. We look at pricing, we look at how to advertise and market, we look at how to create your website, we look at making sales, delivering on your matchmaking service, kind of making sure, you know, all your terms and conditions and things like that are there. So it really is kind of like a matchmaking business in a box, except in smallmouth, all of the nuts and bolts included. That's so exciting. So at the end of, when they've completed, do they receive a certification of some sort? They do. So they receive a certificate to say they've trained as the matchmaker, they receive a little badge that they can put on their website. And that I think is really critical because when someone's looking at spending and investing potentially quite a lot of money in a matchmaking service, you know, they're going to do their research and they want to know that who they're going to is legitimate. Because unfortunately, as you know, Sarah, you know, the dating industry is fairly unregulated and you do get some dodgy people crop up from Time to time. So this kind of, you know, positions you in a position where, you know, you've done your work and you are trained so you're, you're credible as a matchmaker. You're providing a service that, you know, that has been taught by a credible matchmaker, someone who has many years of experience within the dating industry. And so you think that when singles go along to meet a matchmaker, would they often ask that kind of question? You know, how did you become a matchmaker and how did your business start? Do you think that's really important to them when they're selecting a service to, you know, to be provided in their love life? Definitely. And particularly in those early days where you're just starting out, you know, people do their research on you, they Google you, they find you. You know, I know people are Googling my name and stuff, which is why I have my personal website as well. And I think anything you can do to kind of let them know that you are legit, that you are serious and you are professional is always going to give you a boost compared to other agencies that don't have that. So I do think it's really important. Yeah. And I suppose that is something that we'll really touch on in lots more detail. Later on in the show. We'll be talking about reputation and, you know, how you've built such a great reputation in the dating industry and how important it is not only for your clients, but for collaboration to enable growth and sustainability. I mean, you need to sustain your place in the dating market and that comes from having a great reputation. Because, Caroline, as you've mentioned, you know, there are lots of dating matchmaking charlatans who pop up and they don't perhaps really know what they're doing. But learning from someone like you, who's made all of those very expensive mistakes, who has also had the most wonderful of successes. So, Caroline, if for those listening in, who kind of have this imposter syndrome of, oh, well, what makes me an expert or why would I be able to help people even though they feel like they've got it within them to help people in their romantic lives, what would you say to those people if you had three top tips? You know, they feel like an imposter in the dating industry? I would say, firstly, believe in yourself, your skills and your abilities. And, you know, it doesn't matter if you haven't been using them for the last five years as a matchmaker, if you still have those skills and abilities, believe in yourself and have confidence. I would Say, you know, you're kind of playing the game with being an expert. I found it really cringey calling myself a dating expert. I absolutely cringe so much until a PR company I was working with said, suck it up. That's what journalists are looking for. They're looking for a dating expert. You've got to, you've got to live it, live it and breathe it. You are, you are that part and you just kind of have to play it. So suck it up to some extent, which I know sounds bad. And, you know, thirdly, get testimonials, say, from people you've worked with. I'm not saying, you know, official testimonials. Caroline I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and this is Women's Radio. We'll be back. Women's Radio station is at a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. We aim to show the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and a platform for your voice. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don't know where to start. @empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hi, I'm Lara Haims, founder and designer of Lara Haims Jewelry. I make luxurious jewelry at affordable prices using silver, semi precious stones and high quality triple a cubic zirconia. It's elegant, stunning, stylish and long lasting. Who needs diamonds? Find us at House of Fraser stores or Ella Boutique, Knightsbridge. If not, Visit us at www.larahemes.com. make a statement and sparkle this season. Do you need mediation? We are the a project charity. We provide convent resolution and community engagement services. Our services include community mediation for neighbour disputes, family mediation for separating couples, special education needs for parents, carers and their children and young adults as well as workplace mediation and restorative services. To find out more, head to womensradiostation.com or theaproject.co.uk Women's radio station is A not for profit community interest company, supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help Twitter our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, head of business development at women's radio station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 07-956-37-1483 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com. Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back to Love Lessons Live. I'm here with Caroline Brealey and we have been talking about the journey to becoming a matchmaker, building a wildly successful matchmaking agency. In this segment, I'm going to talk a lot about how to spread the word about matchmaking, spreading the love, so to speak, which kind of laughed and cringed about in the break with Caroline. So welcome back. Caroline, hello. Welcome back. I'm delighted to have you. So tell me, Caroline, I mentioned very briefly earlier on that you have been a bit of a serial entrepreneur in the dating space. So how did you kind of get the traction of attention, I guess, with, you know, print digital media? I know you've been in the likes, you know, you've been on TV giving dating advice as well as giving business advice, and you've set up a multitude of businesses and, you know, grown something very small to something very large and taught other people to do the same. So tell us a little bit how you managed to get that traction in pr. So the first thing I kind of did that was a success was get a PR company, basically. I tried to do my own PR initially, but I didn't really understand what PR was. I remember Googling boys PR and thinking, I'll have a bash at doing this myself. And this was after I'd already done things like pay ridiculous amount of sums for a classified ad which bought me absolutely, absolutely no interest whatsoever, which was a really hard pill to swallow. Then I decided, okay, I'm not an expert at this, I really need some help. So I got a PR company on board and they weren't crazy expensive. You know, I think a lot of people go, my God, PR company. That's only what really big businesses do. Well, I was a startup, but I decided, okay, I've got to spend some money somewhere. And this I think is going to be beneficial. And one thing they did was get me a full page spreading Glamour magazine. I still have it with a picture of me posing really cheesily. But that basically started generating my first clients. And that really was the key thing for us in kind of launching us, getting our name out there and getting those all important clients in who are actually paying money. Amazing. So PR is really essential when you're starting out. And I've always found in my journey as a matchmaker for all those years was kind of like attaching, you know, really important stories about your clients or about your business journey to those relevant days in the year, like, or, you know, like Valentine's Day or breakup season or, you know, any big awful fads that are going on to kind of counteract them with positive stories. In the dating industry, I think those things are always good to pay attention to. And I think your PR journey has been really lovely and quite inspiring to watch for any budding cupids out there, because you really did start out small and grew to kind of like a dating, matchmaking industry PR sensation because you really kind of put the footprint down for people saying a lot about who they were. As an expert, I know you said it was a tough pill to swallow, but you really set like a footing there for people to follow and do the same, which was amazing. So if you can tell us a little bit about cupids out there who want to speak to journalists but find it absolutely terrifying, what would you recommend they do? If they don't want to speak to a journalist for the Evening Standard or whatever, how do you recommend they overcome that? Well, the first thing I'd say is I still get nervous talking to journalists, and I don't know why, because they're only people and they're looking for stories, and that's what we often forget. They are looking, you know, they have to film magazines or blogs or newspapers and they're looking for content. And if you can make their life much easier by giving them good content, then they're going to love you. But I think the key thing to do is just remember that they are a real person. You can approach them by things like Twitter, which is a great way of doing it informally. If you don't want to fire off an email or phone them, actually, I'd probably recommend not phoning them because they get hundreds of stories every day, actually finding them on Twitter, looking at the publications where you'd like to be featured, finding out who are the writers, contacting them on things like Twitter, engaging with them, and actually not just being like, what can you do for me? You're offering them stuff. You want to be giving them things. Hey, I've got this great story. Would you be interested in this? And don't take it personally if they're not, because more often than not, they probably won't be interested, but sometimes they will, and then that's the really exciting time. Yeah, I was just thinking about a really funny time. You know, I was a matchmaker, like, in my early 20s, and I called a journalist and it was petrifying and I was like, you know, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and I run this dating agency and I help singles across London. Da, da, da, da. And. And they were just like, so what? Give me, tell me, tell me how you help people and how it's relevant to what I'm looking for. You can't just call up a journalist or tweet a journalist saying, I'm XYZ and I help singles. You want to say how you help them and what it is that you can provide in terms of what's topical today. So, yeah, I think that's a really important thing and I've learned from that mistake. And it sounds like you have have two. Caroline, one of the good things to do is if a journalist has put shared, you know, something they've written about, if it's linked to dating, go back and give your opinion, you know, get on their radar. Absolutely. I mean, if a journalist is looking for a case study in the relationship sphere, you don't have that case study. You can always offer your opinion on said story, which, you know, I found this year to be really successful. I've been chatting to a lot of journalists about, you know, whatever it is, my personal opinion or professional opinion on the matter. So, Caroline, we've talked before about how, you know, the dating industry is a real saturated market, and it is. There are dating apps, matchmakers, dating events, left, right and center all over the world. Now, what do you believe it's saturated as I do, by the way, or am I just talking at you for one? No, it definitely is. Definitely. Everyone's trying to think of the next big thing. Well, that was going to be my next question. If you do also agree that it's saturated, how can you stand out from the crowd? If you're about to set up a new agency or singles events company or anything, how can you really stand out from the crowd? I think look at what others are doing, look at what they're doing well, but then add your unique spin on it. So there's no point setting up a matchmaking business. You know, somebody. Someone came up in London and was like, right, I'm going to set up a matchmaking business. It's going to be identical to mutual attraction. Well, you know, you're already on the back foot because there's already an agency that's been longer established, blah, blah, blah. So in that case, I'd be saying, well, what's unique about you? You know, maybe it's that you're attracting a particular niche, a particular demographic. So one of our graduates at the Academy, Inika, she runs Project143, and they're a matchmaking business just for Southeast Asians living in London. You know, so she's really kind of nailed a niche that she knows she understands. And, you know, it's completely different to Mutual attraction would get different clients, different customers, appeal to different people. And that's how you can really make your business, whatever it is in dating a success by really honing in on who you can help or finding something that's unique or special about your business. That's amazing. Love that advice, Caroline. Now, I was just thinking back to, you know, when we were both kind of operating in the same, same space, and I was running a niche matchmaking agency for a while that was global. Now, for those who are starting out and thinking, you know, I want to build a matchmaking agency, but I want world domination, let's say world domination of the singles market. Do you think playing bigger is always better when it comes to business or not? You see, I would say I play it fairly small in that I'm only London, but then there's a huge scope in London. I mean, I'm not sure how many singles are in London at the minute, but a heck of a lot, let's just say that. So I think there's pros and cons of both, and I think if your passion is to go global, then absolutely do that. But also if you want to set up an agency in, you know, your local town, then I think there's definitely scope for that as well. So I would say follow your heart and your ambitions and do your research to make sure, you know, there is a need for it. But I don't think think either is right or wrong, if that answers your question. Yeah, no, it totally answers my question. I was just thinking, you know, running a global agency, you have to take into consideration, you know, cultural differences, time differences, dating culture differences, which, you know, talking about, you know, the New York singles market is completely different to how we Date here in London. You know, we kind of, we might multi date but we don't have five or six boyfriends at a time most of the time or girlfriends. But in New York it's completely different. Different. So it's taking all of those things into consideration. And also when you run a big business, if your aim is to do that, I'd say slow and steady wins the race because there can be a loss of control. And I think you have played, you know, like you say, it's all relative but relatively small by staying in London. But the scope of the singles market here, as I guess in other big cities is vast and so there is every means to be successful. Can you tell us, Caroline, as a business owner in the dating industry, what has been your biggest triumph or breakthrough to date? Oh, that's a tough one. It might sound boring, but I think it is. Just still being here seven years on, it's been such a hard slog over the years. I've had good years, bad years, I've had a baby, I've got married. Since setting up the business. I'm now what you would call, I guess a mumpreneur. Juggling things and just getting through and still having a success business. For me, seven years on is a huge success and something I'm really proud of, particularly now, this past year juggling having a baby. I now have a nearly nine month old and still running the business. There's no such thing as proper maternity leave when you're a business owner. But still being here, still smiling most of the time, that would be my biggest success. Amazing. Love that, Caroline. So normally I would kind of round up this section, you know, with a quick three tip round off. But I'd like to ask you give me one sentence or one summarization of how to maximize PR for those putting themselves out there as a dating industry business owner. Be confident, approach journalists, don't take things personally. Just get stuck in pitch yourself, pitch any ideas you have and keep going. Keep personally persevering. Yeah, I guess that comes with the tenacity that you've had to keep going. You know, if you keep going, accept the good, accept the bad and just have the tenacity and the grit and the gumption to keep helping singles no matter what. If it really is your passion. It's so exciting to have you here. Caroline Brealey, matchmaker of the masses in London, teaching us how to build a wildly successful dating personal introduction matchmaking agency. Caroline is the founder of Mutual Attraction. Sorry, I almost got my words jumbled up and she can help you build a matchmaking agency should you so wish. So we'll be right back. Love Lessons live after the break on Women's Radio Station. See you soon. Welcome to Women's Radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. This is Women's Radio Station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism and my guest today is Karen. Welcome to future Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Pasamonte on women's Radio station. Women's Radio Station, we want to hear from you. I listen to Women's Radio station Women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, my name is Katie Young Gerald and I'm the founder of Bespoke Textiles and author of best selling book the Textile Touch. I've been working in luxury fashion and textiles for over 25 years and I help brands design luxury bespoke uniforms to high end limited edition collections. We've been doing this for clients such as the Ivy Collection to Royal Households and we do it inside of a sustainable supply chain that saves waste. You can find us on bespoketextiles.co.uk hi, I'm Liz Van Linden, a UK travel consultant for Hazelmere Travel. People come to me as they want unique experiences and a personalized service. This happens from the moment that they inquire till they come back home. I work with luxury tour operators. You can contact me on 078-254-4122 and Liz spelt l I s@hazelmeartravel.co.uk are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help visit turntous.org.uk Women's radio station is a not for profit community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, Head of Business Development at Women's Radio Station. Radio advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience globally. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-5637, 1483 or alternately zmomensradiostation.com. Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back to Love Lessons Live. I'm here with the wonderful Caroline Brealey, founder of Mutual Attraction and the Matchmakers Academy Online training. Caroline and I today have been discussing the journey to becoming a matchmaker, spotting a gap in a market, building a training academy online to help aspiring cupid start, grow and perhaps even sell, should they so wish, you know, a wildly successful matchmaking agency. So welcome back, Caroline. Thank you for having me. It's been such a pleasure so far. Who knows what I'm going to ask you next. I'll worried. No, don't be. Don't be. So we really covered quite a lot of ground for those who are, you know, thinking about starting a matchmaking agency or maybe, you know, playing with the fact of having a little side job of playing cupid with their friends and trying to turn it into some sort of professional line of work which is absolutely possible to kind of do on the side while you're building your network and beginning to grow into a sustainable matchmaking agency. So we talked a little bit as well about how to spread the love word of being a matchmaker and to kind of approach journalists and hook onto stories and make your business relevant. And now I want to talk about gaining a really good Cupid reputation, how to grow your business. And first and foremost, I want to ask you about scaling up. I hear this all of the time. People are constantly chit chatting in the entrepreneur sphere about scaling up business. How relevant is it in the offline dating industry? What do you make of it? Well, I would say that scaling up is basically how you can grow your business in a way that's manageable. A lot of the time people would say matchmaking business isn't that scalable in that the online courses, because lots and lots of people can do it, but I don't have to do more work. I would say matchmaking is scalable, but it's not as easy as an online business, for example. But I think there's lots of scope in matchmaking to scale up, to get bigger, to grow, to add to your team, to have more matchmakers. So I definitely think really the potential is there. If you see yourself running a large matchmaking business. I think the reality as well is always that scaling up is kind of taking a business virtual, kind of like you've done with the academy where you're training matchmakers you don't have to exchange time for payment personally all of the time because you've got these videos and these courses that they take and workbooks. I don't know how possible that is as a matchmaker. I think you can give dating advice in courses and I think that's really relevant to today's online, you know, market. But being a matchmaker, do you think you can take it online or would it make us too much like apps? I think it'd be very hard to take it online. I think you can only really scale up by literally having other matchmakers and kind of growing your team that way, which is a very much a traditional business model. I think some matchmakers are gearing towards doing things like consultations online. I haven't got any experience of doing that myself. It could work depending on kind of who your ideal customer is. But, you know, it's a different kind of way of matchmaking, so. And probably your price point will reflect that. So I'm not saying it's bad, but it's a bit different. So it is quite difficult. I can't see. I know some big dating companies have tried to do matchmaking and link it, for example, like eharmony and love strap to matchmaking. And I'm not sure, I wouldn't like to say, but I'm not sure how successful it's actually been. I think it tends to be either matchmaking or online or app dating and there isn't huge amounts of crossover. So you think, like, kind of find that gap emerging in the middle is kind of too confusing for the market that they're targeting, perhaps? I think so. I've never seen anyone do it really successfully yet anyway. So whether there's just something we're missing or we. We can't see, but I think, you know, there are two very different things. Yes, it's dating, but very. And actually, I think if people are coming to you for an online, for an offline personal service, then that's what they're coming to you for. If they want, you know, online, then there's already plenty out there for them, apps and things. So, yeah, I would say it's best to keep them separate. But, you know, who knows, who knows what's going to be the next big thing? And I might be eating my words this time next year. Exactly. So, Caroline, you know, you have been running your matchmaking agency, Mutual Attraction for seven years now, and myself, I was helping singles, you know, for six and a half, seven years all over the world, find love. And I Loved it. You love it. And you know, the matchmaking industry has its place, but we have over the years seen so many matchmaking agencies pop up and then go. So with that said, what do you think is the key that they're missing to have the tenacity to stay? I think a lot of people think, oh, matchmaking, that's really easy, that's really simple. You know, to set up that business, you don't need to buy product and stock. You can literally have a website and off you go. But, you know, you don't just get clients overnight. Kind of like I discovered, you do have to work at it and you still got to be passionate about it and you've got to have that drive and you have to stick with it even when if things take a little bit longer than you think. So. So I had a lady the other day contact me about setting up a matchmaking business, but she wanted to know that it would guarantee to turn over X amount. Well, there's absolutely no guarantee of that. So you've got to really want to do it. You've got to have grit and determination and you've got to be realistic as well. Yeah, I think that's absolutely key. Like, you know, it's great to be a romantic and that's, you know, halfway there of the reason that you want to be a matchmaker because you want to, you know, make love happen. And that's amazing that you want to do that. But you also have to, to be a realist that, you know, if you want to turn it into a successful business, you have to plan and you have to prepare for the ups, the downs, the good, the bad and the ugly. And, you know, anything from political situations can change the way people spend disposable income. And, you know, I think service based industries are affected by things in a good or bad way, depending on what's going on in the political climates around, I guess. So kind of putting business aside for one second and talking about, you know, managing the sensitive and intimate part of people's lives, the singles that come to you. It does have its trials and tribulations and I've spoken to so many dating experts here on the show at Love Lessons about what the trials and tribulations look like. What have you seen over the years, Caroline, that you face and how do you manage soaking up like a sponge? I get the worries of singles in the world of London. I definitely take it less personally now. I literally used to take everything on and feel responsible for people's dating lives and that's one of the things I teach people when they come on the course to be a matchmaker is, you know, these are individual people who are dating aside from you. You know, they're coming to you for maybe six months. But it might be a woman in her late 30s, she's dated for a long time. And you know, you are not responsible for her entire dating life and her happiness. At the end of the day, you have to do your best. You have to try as hard as you can for them to meet someone special. But ultimately you are not responsible because I think once you take on that responsibility, you're going to drive yourself mad. You're going to get yourself so stressed. And I now have kind of just, you know, you hear similar things from men and women. You know, women are quite high tis, they all want someone really, really tall. And you know, we find that men can be a little bit size. So, you know, they want a woman who's slim or blah. And I'm making very generic, sweeping statements here. But it is what we, what we tend to see. And it used to really bug me and really get to me, and now I challenge it. I always challenge it. You know, the love of your life might happen to be 5 foot 10, not 6 foot, you know, would you still want to meet them? I used to always say Prince charming could be 5, 7. You just don't know. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, they always end up with somebody slightly different to what they think anyway, so. But I don't know, let that bug me as much anymore because I used to get really het up. And you just have to accept that you're here to support, you're here to guide, but ultimately it's down to your client to take your advice on board. And if they don't want to, that's out of your hands. You can only do so much. So I guess in a nutshell, with all that said, you are basically saying that it is your responsibility as a matchmaker to provide an absolutely glorious service. But it is not your responsibility to make someone fall in love because you cannot predict whether they're going to have chemistry and you cannot predict whether they're going to want to get married and make babies tomorrow. But what you can do is provide a service where you're matching people based on their, you know, religion. If it's that values, if it's that traditions, culture, whatever it is that they're looking for, you can make those matches, but you can't be responsible for things that have happened before in their dating life. Or whether they fall in love or not. Is that correct? Absolutely. You can only do your best. Love is. Is one of those things that none of us control. I say, wouldn't it be amazing if we could. We'd be multi, multi billionaires by now. But that's also the beauty and frustrating thing about love. Who knows when it's going to happen? I can match two people who I'm really confident about and they go on a date and they come away and go, nice person, but not for me. You know, ultimately, nobody knows. So, Caroline, you have been in the industry for such a while and so many people out there who want to build matchmaking agencies, slash personal introductions, whatever they like to call it, they're probably really inspired by your journey in the industry. So if you could tell us a little bit about building a reputation and you know how important that is for collaboration and for growth. Can you tell us about how you've managed to build a great reputation in the offline dating industry to grow a successful business? I think one of the things I've always done is try and meet as many people in the industry as I can. So I know Sarah, we met many years ago. I basically reached out to lots and lots of people when I started and asked for their advice. Everyone likes giving their advice. So you're always going to get people who want to meet and just taking my time to get to know them, to respect them as industry professionals, to learn from them, to meet people for coffee. And I think staying in touch with people and helping them whenever you can as well always kind of gives you that good reputation. Also standing by your morals. So I've often been asked to talk about things, you know, sex and stuff in relationships, and I've got no problem talking about sex in personal life, but I've always decided that with Mutual Attraction, I only talk about, you know, dating, finding love. Very uplifting things. I try not to comment on negative stories and just kind of standing by that ethos and. And, you know, being true to myself and being true to the mutual attraction brand as well, if that makes sense. Just kind of standing by, standing by what I built and being the business. That sounds really cheesy and I don't mean it, but it doesn't make sense, Caroline. It absolutely does not sound cheesy in any way. You know, I think that kind of lasting thought here on the show today is being the business will make you successful. And by that, my interpretation is having integrity to keep your integrity. Your integrity often sits with your values and your values of who you are and what you want for your business should be very much aligned. So I am Sarah Louise Ryan here on Love Lessons Live Women's radio station. We've been chatting to Caroline Brealey. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Caroline. Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. It's been an absolute delight. Bye guys. Women's radio station is is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education. We aim to show the individuality of every woman everywhere. Providing opportunities and a platform for your voice. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's why what makes us different? I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start. @empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hi, I'm Lara Heems, founder and designer of Lara Haims jewelry. I make luxurious jewelry at affordable prices using silver, semi precious stones and high quality AAA cubic zirconia. It's elegant, stunning, stylish and long lasting. Who needs diamonds? Find us at How House of Fraser stores or Ella Boutique, Knightsbridge. If not, Visit us@ww.larahemes.com make a statement and sparkle this season. Do you need mediation? We are the A project charity. We provide convent resolution and community engagement services. Our services include community mediation for neighbour disputes, family mediation for separating couples, special education needs for parents, carers and their children and young adults as well as workplace mediation and restorative services. To find out more, head to womensradiostation.com or theaproject.co.uk women's radio station is a not for profit community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate simply head to our website. Every little will help. Hi, I'm Zena Moscone, Head of business development at women's radio station. Radio Advertising is the most cost effective way of reaching a huge audience global. Moreover, our sponsorship and advertising packages can be tailored to your needs, whether it be a product or brand service you're looking to promote. If you are interested in sponsoring or advertising, please contact me on 079-5637, 1483 or alternately zmomewomensradiostation.com.