Love Lessons – Overcoming Anxiety & Dating With Georgia Gold

Hello and welcome to Women's radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and this is Love Lessons. Today I'm here with the wonderful Georgia Gold. Georgia is an absolute wonder in the realm of cognitive behavioral therapy and today we're going to be talking about overcoming anxiety when dating or out there trying to build a relationship. Welcome to Georgia. Hello. Thanks for having me. Oh, such a pleasure to have you. Delighted. So Georgia, thanks for joining us here in the studio. I would love to know what is anxiety? Okay, good question. So anxiety is when you're feeling apprehensive, worried, fearful about uncertain outcomes. So we all experience it, it's a really natural emotion and actually for survival we need to experience anxiety so we, we can't get rid of it completely because it's really important to have and we can all feel anxious from time to time. Okay, so would it be fair to say, because I have read and heard and seen in the world of dating that anxiety is kind of rife and normalized in some way. Would it be fair to say that it is normalised and we all experienced it in our day to day life? Yeah, completely. And I think it helps to know that everyone experiences anxiety from time to time. And in the dating world, as you say, it is rife. It's really natural to have worries about what others think about us, how we're coming across. So just kind of knowing other people have similar thoughts and worries as well can be quite helpful in a way. So anxiety, is it generally just a state of worrying? Have we given worrying a medical term? Somewhat, perhaps because we all worry from time to time and you can't get rid of worry completely. It's such a natural thing that we do. I suppose when people seek help, it's usually when anxiety has become really excessive. So the worrying's become excessive and it's having an impact on people's day to day life. So it's stopping them from having new experiences, going out, meeting new people when it's having such a detrimental impact than it does sometimes need a diagnosis or need to go for therapy. But yeah, it should be normalised that everyone does experience it from time to time. So I hear that one in four people, particularly in the uk, suffer from some sort of anxiety, moreover, generalised anxiety. So obviously, as you say, this state of worrying. So with so many singles here in London and me meeting so many of them via coaching or matchmaking or overcoming some sort of heartbreak, getting out there again, I see this state of worry in different capacities, but they all label it as anxiety and so it did get me to thinking that have we kind of used this word and this state to kind of hide behind it in some way? And I am no medical expert for sure, or psychological expert, I'm a dating coach. So have we just found this thing that everyone seems as normal and used it as a blanket to kind of hide behind? Particularly in the world of dating. I mean, what are your thoughts and experiences or, you know, what have you seen? It's a good point, really. I don't know if people use it as a blanket. I feel like recognizing that you're feeling anxious about these situations is a good first step in the right direction to acknowledge it. But maybe people can then use that excuse to be like, I'm too anxious to go for dates or meet new people. And that's when it becomes problematic because the more you avoid things, the more difficult it is to do them. So it's actually so important to push yourself out of your comfort zone and experience that anxiety and recognise it's okay to feel anxious. But the only way that you're going to build your confidence is by doing these things. So it's finding something from within, like some sort of strength physically, emotionally, psychologically to push through that anxious state and kind of forge ahead, experience the anxiety and learn from it, let's say. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I hear so many different things, terms regarding anxiety around anxiety. What are the different types of anxiety and how can we spot those different types of anxiety? Okay, so there's lots of different types of anxiety. I suppose the most common ones that might come out of dating is generalised anxiety. So worrying excessively about lots of different things and dating is a common part of that. It could be about money, work, family as well, but it's excessively worrying and feeling like the worry is uncontrollable tends to be worrying a lot about the future. What if things go wrong? What if I fail? And that can really stop us from doing things because we're so fearful of what could happen. Always thinking the worst case scenarios, worrying a lot at night time. So that's the generalised anxiety, social anxiety. So when you're worried about being in social situations, a fear of how others are going to perceive you, worrying that you're going to be judge negatively, a fear of humiliating or embarrassing yourself. So that's the most common type of anxiety and about 12% of the population will experience that in their lifetime and that can make dating really difficult. That's a lot. Yeah, yeah, most, yes. And most people can relate to that, to Some extent, public speaking, those sorts of things, meetings. I've talked about it before where it's not so much a known fact, but it is true that the majority of the population would much rather see themselves in a casket than on a stage. Yeah, that's probably true. It sounds extreme, but you're so anxious about speaking like about what you know or about anything or being seen being vulnerable that you'd much rather be dead than be on a stage. And it's, what can we do to counteract that worry and that anxiety and that fear of being vulnerable. And I suppose when you're dating and you're out there trying to meet someone new, it's one of the most vulnerable positions that you can ever put yourself in. Yeah, completely. So before we were talking, you were telling us a little bit about the state of generalized anxiety. And some of the symptoms can be over worrying. You know, perhaps you're not eating, I suppose, or overeating to comfort the anxiety, not sleeping, sleeping too much or. I don't know, you're the expert. But what would you say the symptoms of social anxiety are? Because with dating that comes with putting yourself out there in real time, in real situations and you know, if you're, you know, say on a date or at a speed dating event or at a networking event, you're out and you've got to be sociable, you've got to network in order to put yourself in the best position to meet new people. What are the, what are the symptoms of social anxiety? So it's being really self focused, feeling really self conscious about how you're coming across. And often it's worrying that you're not going to perform how you'd like to. So you worry that the anxiety is going to interfere. So for example, people might worry that they're not going to be able to get their words out, that they're going to be shaking, that they're going to go bright red, that they're going to be sweating and really smelly. So it's really worrying about how the anxiety is going to impact on your performance. And then the more you worry about it, the more those physical symptoms happen. So unfortunately with anxiety it can impact a little bit of how you're coming across. You can trip over your words a bit, but actually it's never as bad as we think it is. We feel that anxiety. So to us it does feel like our face is burning up and going bright red, but the other person doesn't know you're feeling that anxious and it's not as apparent to them. So yeah, so that's one of the really main things and it's avoiding those situations. So if you're really dreading them or you keep going and it's not getting any better and you're really overanalyzing how you're coming across and thinking about it afterwards and fretting about it beforehand, that's all signs that you're suffering from some social anxiety. It sounds to me like we're so busy today, at least one in four of us, by the way, so busy thinking about ourselves, how we're coming across that actually we're not thinking about what do I think about that person? Do I like how they're coming across? Am I attracted to them? Do I have the same values as them? Are we communicating in the way that I feel comfortable with? And I'm attracted to so busy, like in regards to dating, so busy thinking about what could happen rather than living in the now and feeling the feelings of falling or not. We're too busy thinking about what impact we're having on them. Yeah, completely. Which is ridiculous in a way, in layman's terms because it takes two to tango and two to make a relationship work. And I've seen it so much so when I've met singles, a lot of the time they're anxious to go online because they don't know how to approach conversation and then further down the line, anxious to go to a singles eventually anxious to go on a first date and so often, more often than not, not willing to eat with somebody until it's exclusive. So we're experiencing anxiety on so many different levels in the dating world. How in this modern world are we to build a relationship? Georgia, that's a big question. It's a very big question. I guess we'll be coming onto that as well, like when we think about coping mechanisms. But it's not putting so much pressure on yourself. As you say, it takes two to tango and we've got to somehow get out of our heads and stop being so self critical and overanalyzing ourselves so that the conversation is more natural. And as you say, we're looking at their values and starting to analyze if we're a good match. Not just being self critical of ourselves. After the break, we'll be talking about anxiety in online dating anxiety. When we're out there meeting people in real time at singles events, we'll be talking about social anxiety on first dates, overcoming the fear of rejection and putting our best foot forward in order to build a fantastic loving relationship. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and we'll be back with Georgia Gold WRS women's radio station, Voice of Women Worldwide, Sarah's Universal Soul Show. What does your soul or spirituality mean to you? 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She is in the realm of cognitive behavioral therapy, helping people overcome different types of anxiety, particularly social anxiety and generalized anxiety, which are so relevant to the modern world of dating today. Putting yourself out there in order to find the best love, the love that you so deserve. And so we have been talking about different kinds of anxiety as we've just covered, what kind of symptoms we experience when we're experiencing generalized anxiety, the symptoms of social anxiety, and how they show up in our dating lives. So the next thing I'd like to talk about is kind of the catch 22 situation of what feels like triggers. Or one day we'll wake up feeling far more anxious than we did the day before. Is it because we went on a date that didn't go so well, or we're about to go on a date, or we've just put ourselves back on online dating or whatever. So I'm no expert in triggers of anxiety, but I know Georgia knows a little bit more than me for sure. I've heard that there's different types of internalizing anxiety, the way it shows up externally and all of that jazz. So why don't you tell us, Georgia, how does something trigger if we feel anxious in the morning, has something triggered us that day or the day before? I mean, how does it work? Yeah, so it will depend. So something like a monitoring diary can be really useful to help you recognize what your triggers are, to recognize patterns, what's causing the anxiety, because, yeah, they can be external things. So perhaps the dread of going on a date or going to a meeting, something like that, it might be really clear what's causing your anxiety. Or it could be more internal. So perhaps a change in your body, your heart rate increasing, will start to make you feel anxious, and you may misperceive the symptoms as something more dangerous. So, for example, people experience panic. They misperceive the symptoms as they're going to have a heart attack or they're going to faint or it's going to lead to a panic attack. So you want to think about when you're feeling anxious. What situation are you in? What happened just before then? What's going through your mind at that point? Because Our thoughts have such a huge impact on how we feel. So if you can get to the thoughts, that will give you a clear idea of what your triggers are. So would it be fair to say that you recommend carrying around some sort of notebook or even taking. Jotting down on your phone where you were at that time and what you experienced, how you felt and what. What you were going through? Yeah, exactly. And kind of rating your anxiety out of 10. So 10 is the most anxious you felt. And then you can recognize. It just helps you recognize patterns. So your situation, the thoughts, your level of anxiety, or any other emotions that brings up for you. Okay, so let me give you a situation. In fact, I've experienced an awful lot of anxiety in my time. I'm so happy to share that because I think if one in four people out there are going through the same thing that I have experienced, then we can all relate on some level. And as you were saying before, something like 12% go through social anxiety in their lifetime. And so we're only human, after all. And so we all experience anxiety on some level at some point in our lives. So there's no harm in sharing that. I think when I went through my breakup a few years ago now, the anxiety that I would experience would be something completely unrelated to what had happened to me and my heartbreak. So, for example, I used to experience anxiety more often than not on an escalator. And I would be so anxious that I was going to fall off an escalator or fall down some steps. And I think it would be something I was internalizing, not. Not relative to the situation I was in with the heartbreak. But I'd never experienced anxiety before, and that was my first experience and it was ongoing over a long period of time. And I think I'm quite a confident person. And so I've never really experienced social anxiety, but definitely generalized anxiety. The not sleeping, which comes with a breakup, which so many people in the world can relate to. Going through a heartbreak, a breakup, and not being able to sleep or sleeping too much and feeling anxious about who they're going to meet next. I suppose it's wondering where does anxiety come from when it's unrelated to the situation that you might be feeling anxious about. It's a really good point. So where it kind of comes out of the blue or it's not really making sense why you're feeling anxious, that's the strange thing about anxiety. So it can spread, really. You can be anxious about one thing or you're having a stressor in your life, like A breakup. And then suddenly, as you say, you start to get anxious about things that you never felt nervous about before. Escalators, getting public transport, speaking in a meeting. So it's, I suppose it's kind of being compassionate to yourself and recognising I have just been through a stressful life event, so I am going to be feeling more on edge or a higher level of anxiety and picking up that, trying to make that link to why it might be and also picking up on the smaller triggers. So for you, the escalators, that was probably because you were going through such a big life stressor, but also recognizing, okay, if this is starting to spread to escalators, I need to make sure I keep getting escalators and not avoid it because then the anxiety will spread and you'll start to get anxious about being in shopping centres and getting the stairs. So really just trying to stick with it and not avoid it. So, okay, so this is all making sense because it's kind of like linking up so you've got this stress and then thereafter, whatever that stressor might be could be a grief, it could be a death, it could be the end of a relationship, something that's major in your life. And then thereafter you may or may not experience anxiety. If you do the things you're experiencing anxiety about, they're not necessarily related to that situation, but it's being more forgiving on yourself and more compassionate that you're going through a stressful time. Have I interpreted that in the right way? Yeah, because also you're probably not sleeping as well, you're probably not eating as well. When we're stressed, smaller things make us feel irritable and anxious. So yeah, being kind to yourself and recognizing that's understandable. So I think what you were saying before is really interesting about, so something's making us anxious. And so it's only human nature to try and kind of avoid the thing that is kind of, you know, like a predator to us. It's going to harm us. It's like putting ourself in harm's way. So it's that fight or flight situation. We're flighting, aren't we? Yeah. You know, and so you're saying fight through it and then you will counteract the anxiety, work with it. I mean, what do you think? Yeah. So when we avoid situations, we're not giving ourselves the opportunity to find out what actually happens. So when we're anxious, we tend to overestimate the danger and how bad it's going to be and underestimate our ability to cope. So, for example, we might think, this date's going to go awfully, I'm not going to have anything to say, therefore I'm not going to go. And then we think, well, see, I can't cope with it, I can't go through with that. Whereas if we actually went, we will find out what really is going to happen and it may go completely opposite to how we predict. But if we keep avoiding, we're never going to disconfirm those predictions. And when we're in a situation, our anxiety tends to go down over time. We can't stay in a high state of anxiety for a long period of time because it's exhausting. We don't have enough adrenaline to keep us really anxious. So we do start to naturally calm down and then we can think more rationally. So you need to stay in that situation for long enough for your anxiety to come down as well. So the next time you've learned, I can cope with this, although I feel anxious, it will come down. It gets easier and easier each time you do it. So it sounds to me like you're saying less avoiding and more immersing ourselves in those uncomfortable situations in order to grow. Yeah, completely. How interesting. And also something that I thought then that crossed my mind, it might have crossed someone else's mind that's listening in, I don't know. But, you know, you hear of the victim mentality and people feel comfortable when they've been through something traumatic and maybe they've had quite a traumatic upbringing, whatever, so being in a traumatic state is what they're comfortable with. So do you think that anxiety, if it's what someone's known, that it feels more comfortable to be anxious about something than for something to feel a breeze? Do you think it. I mean, it's kind of a devil's advocate to say about a medical situation, but it is a state of worrying. And do you think it's easier to be in that state of worrying because it's someone's comfort zone? Potentially, I think with generalised anxiety, that can be the case because, for example, when people get CBT for worry, they'll start to learn how to manage and disengage with the worry and then it can feel. They can feel on edge. I have nothing to worry about. This feels really weird. And try and find something else to worry about because that is their go to. It's their. Sometimes, yeah, they feel more comfortable with the worrying because they think it's helping in some way. So I do kind of get that. That it can feel unusual not feeling anxious if you're so used to having that underlying anxiety all the time. So it would be then normalizing their life by feeling anxious about it. And I wonder if. So this modern world of dating, singles are out there doing so much online stuff where they can't see real human beings behind it that they're anxious about what's happening, what's gonna happen. What's this person thinking? Who is this person stalking them on 10 million social media outlets? It's that worry about, what am I doing? I'm putting myself out there. And in dating, 80% of the time, all I'm seeing is worry. And something we were talking about before with one of our producers is that, you know, the word dating is associated with negativity and worry. Do you believe. What do you believe? I think it can do because you can put so much pressure on it that this has to be this perfect date. So, yeah, I think there is some truth in that. But it always depends. It's always how you're perceiving the situation, what pressure you're putting on it, how much you're worrying about it beforehand. The search for perfection. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan. We're here on love lessons. I'm with Ms. Georgia Gold, cognitive behavioral trainee therapist. And we're having a wonderful time overcoming anxiety. We'll be back. Welcome to women's radio station, the voice of women worldwide. Hungry? An average woman eats about 2 to 3 kilos of lipstick stick in her lifetime. Women's radio station, we want to hear from you. This is women's radio station. You're listening to Avril Price with kitchen sink spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism. And my guest today is Karen Nunn. I listen to women's radio station women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. 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I'm here with Georgia Gold, who works in the realm of cognitive behavioral therapy, and we're talking about overcoming anxiety in dating. Huge topic, huge implications, but nothing we human beings can't overcome. Isn't that for sure? That's a nice way of putting it. Well, it's quite a heavy topic in some ways. Also, you know, the word anxiety has a lot of negative implications, but when we realize that it's actually quite normal and we human beings all experience it at different points in our life, particularly in dating or anything that might put ourselves in a stressful situation of worrying, then we'll just realize we're just human. After all, everything is fine and we just need to keep being vulnerable. So I'm here with Georgia and I'd like Georgia to know that for this show I actually put it out to a few clients of mine, to a few friends of mine who are single out there dating. Different questions they would put towards a cognitive behavioral therapist should they have the opportunity about dating, about relationships, and about the worry of putting themselves out there and starting again. So I'm gonna put a few scenarios to you if that's okay, Ms. Gold. Okay, so somebody asked me to ask you if I have panics about going on dates and seem to gear myself up constantly enough and find ways to get out of those dates that, you know, today is hard to get because you're chatting to 10 million people online. How to. How do I overcome. That's a good one. I think it's really common for people to get worked up about it beforehand. And when we worry so excessively, it can lead to feeling really panicky and it's all about overthinking too much about the situation. So we'll be predicting all these awful things that could happen, that we won't be able to get our words out, that they're not going to like us, that it stops us from going because we're just so sort of paralyzed with the fear of it going wrong. So it's about recognizing as soon as you start to worry like that, all these what if thoughts, what's going to happen, trying to predict the future, trying to get certainty when we can't be certain how it's going to go, and nipping it in the bud, really. So as soon as you start to notice you're worrying like that, recognise you're not going to know for sure. It's not going to help you. It's just going to make you feel more anxious and being able to disengage with the worry. So doing something else, if you're getting ready for the day, listening and singing along to music, chatting to a friend, when you're walking to the date, listening to a podcast, just trying to get out of your head, not giving yourself that space to worry about it, refocusing your attention on something else. I think that's really some great tips there. And I think when you use the word such as anxiety can paralyze you, I 100% believe that. I think of times that I've done public speaking and we were talking about that before, and I've been so worried about it and fearful and anxious that you do feel in that state of being paralyzed. But some people feel so paralyzed that they can't even get to the date that they've worked so hard to get. Because you do. Like today, it's not like 10 years, sorry, 20 years ago or 30 years ago, where it would be matching with someone on the same socioeconomic, you know, and geographic area as you. You know, you're literally having to go out online and connect with someone and it's like a shot in the dark. And so when you get to that point and you get that date to then talk yourself out of it, it's like investing so much time and getting no return. So giving people the strategies and changing their mindset to overcome that state of paralysis I think is important. And tips, which sounds so simple, listening to a podcast, I mean, what do you think about mindfulness and what do you think about meditation? Do you think they help with anxiety? Do they? I mean, that's a big buzzword today, isn't it? Mindfulness? I mean, does that correlate with anxiety? Does it? You know, there is a lot of evidence to show that mindfulness does help, but one size doesn't fit all. So for some people that will be helpful. So you've got headspace and there's so many things on YouTube as well. For some people that can be really useful because you're acknowledging the thought, but then you're learning to disengage with it. But for other people, that's not so helpful. For other people, doing exercise or being around friends is more helpful. So it's finding what works for you. So disengaging, I think you've said that a couple of times and I think that is really important. What is the one top tip for disengaging with anxiety? I suppose it is trying to focus externally so you can do attention training where you go for a walk and the first five minutes you focus on yourself, how you're coming across, how you're walking, worrying about what you're doing. And then the next five minutes you focus on what's going on around you, what can you see, what can you hear, what can you smell. And you compare how you feel. The five minutes you're being really self conscious and the five minutes that you're focusing and being mindful of everything around you. And you're going to most likely feel a lot better when you're not so wrapped up in your own thoughts. And it's a good thing to do because that's when you're feeling calm so you can practice it. And then when you are in an anxious situation, you're really good at being able to shift your attention from your internal worrying thoughts to the external thing that's going on around you. I think that is the best thing I've heard so far from this interview. It's like giving yourself a bird's eye. But as I've you looking down on yourself and finding a way to come out of oneself and come out of that worry and look at the bigger picture per se, I think that's really great. I mean, from someone that suffered from anxiety, I've never heard of that before. Yeah, yeah, I think it is Helpful. So if you're on a date and it's so natural to be thinking, how am I coming across? What am I saying? What are they thinking about you, but what they think about me? And that makes us feel so anxious and then we can't engage in the conversation because we're so wrapped up in our own thoughts. Whereas if we can really focus on how the other person looks, what they're saying, then the conversation just naturally flows. Okay, so I am going to give you another scenario. I mean, I've had so many put to me, I'm having to select what seems to be the most asked and sought after question. So when he or she doesn't message me back straight away and I'm sat there in a state of worry, what should I do then? Okay, so that's a really common one because you think about all the awful things that they don't like me, that have offended them. They're dating someone else. Yeah, I'm the bit on the side. So that's all hypothetical worry. And the best thing to do is put your phone away rather than constantly checking because that's going to keep it on your mind, in the forefront of your mind and do something else again. It's just trying to get out of those worries, acknowledging it's natural to worry, but you can choose whether you're going to let that worry spiral or if you're going to let that worry go and do something else. So it's kind of finding a way to step into the power of it and being the master of yourself and just being like, no, I'm choosing not to worry about that. So you're saying that when you find the best coping mechanisms for you, you can find a way to master how you feel in that moment and overcome anxiety. Yeah, it's kind of recognizing none of that is fact. You're trying to predict what's going on, but you can't mind read. You don't know what the other person thinking. You can't predict what's going to happen. So trying to be present in the moment, doing something else, that's going to refocus your attention away from all that worry. I think what you've just said about being present in the moment is so topical and such a good bridge to what I was about to ask you. That was on my mind. How much do you think social media has contributed to our anxiety, to the way we think about people's perfect lives, that we perhaps don't have perfect relationships, perfect date? I mean, are we internalizing because we have this beautiful rosy picture of everyone else. I mean, how much do you think social media has contributed to anxiety? I think massively. I think it can be really poisonous. But it's always how it perceiving the situation. So if you see a picture of somebody with their perfect boyfriend in this perfect beach, if we're feeling down and have low self esteem at that point we're going to be comparing ourselves with them and think they're so amazing and we're worthless and awful. But when we're feeling okay, we might just see it as a picture and recognize, you know, they've probably been got advertisement and this is just one picture. This doesn't show who they really are, but it can be really, really poisonous. And I think actually there was a study that showed that the more time you spend on the Internet is really linked with anxiety and dating. I should probably quote them. So it's audacity and Kaukan 2010 study that showed that when you're spending more than five hours on the Internet, that's really strongly correlated with dating anxiety. Wow, that's incredible, isn't it? So if you're sat there worrying why your online match hasn't messaged you back and then social media scroll through Instagram and see someone's perfect relationship, there's no wonder you're gonna be sat there feeling anxious. You know, it's the fear of missing out on the perfect life, the perfect relationship and it's worrying in itself. I think. Yeah, I think it really puts it to the forefront of your mind that we just always compare and despair when we're on social media and obviously compare and despair. We just see this one side and it's fake. You know, no one puts that they're having a rubbish time with their partner or they've been on the sofa all day. You just see this biased side of things. Absolutely. Okay, so quick fire question. What do you think about the concept of no scroll September, this whole social media phenomenon that influencers, bloggers, Instagrammers are coming off social media to live in the moment. What kind of impact do you think that will have on anxiety? I think it would be really, really helpful because. Yeah, to get off of social media. So you're not comparing with others. So you're being in the present moment. So you're not being so conscious of how I need to look and how I need to pose and what I need to. How I need to present myself will be really handy. And you might be less prone to stalking that person. You've just met on Tinder. That's very true. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan here with Georgia Goal. We're presenting Love Lessons on Women's Radio Station. And we'll be back. 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We provide convict resolution and community engagement services. Our services include community mediation for neighbour disputes, family mediation for separating couples, special education needs for parents, carers and their children and young adults, as well as workplace mediation and restorative services. To find out more, head to womensradiostation.com or theaproject.co.uk Women's radio station is a not for profit community interest company supporting Women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every Little will help Women's Radio Station hi guys. Oh, and girls, or mainly girls. Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan. This is Love Lessons. We're here on Women's Radio station. I am giving so much value today about anxiety overcoming this big heavy word that is just associated with worry. I'm here with George Gold working in the realm of cognitive behavioral therapy. Helping people come overcome apologies, helping people overcome generalized anxiety, social anxiety and all different types of anxiety that's holding them back. And we're here to talk about stopping you from being held back, from finding the love or keeping the relationship that you truly deserve. So I have just been asking Georgia a few questions that different clients of mine and different friends of mine had put towards me to ask Georgia about different dating scenarios. But I want to put something to Georgia. Welcome back. Hello. Thanks. So let's say I'm single and I'm on a first or second date. Doesn't really matter, depending on what people associate with which. But anyway, all I can think about is what topics I'm going to talk about, what questions I'm going to ask this person in front of me and it's going around in my mind so much that I'm overheating, I'm over worrying and I cannot focus my attention on is this person right for me? Is this person interesting? Is this person intellectually stimulating? Do they have the same values as me? What am I to do on a date when I'm just panicking? I feel like I'm thinking, yeah, I think most people can relate to that at some point. It is all about the overthinking and over preparing. We're so desperate to be thinking right, what topics am I going to cover, how am I going to ask these questions? And that over preparing can make us feel even more anxious. We need it to go a specific way and if it goes off piste, if it goes off topic, we start panicking that we haven't prepared for this. I think we put too much pressure on ourselves to keep the conversation going. Whereas it is a two way thing and they're going to be coming with thoughts and opinions as well. I think it's okay to think about what are you interested in or passionate about or want to know from the other person. So maybe having a couple of things you'd like to talk about. But when we start to over prepare and over plan that Becomes problematic. And in the moment it's very easy to try and be planning what we're saying, how it's going to come across. And again, it just comes back to that idea of trying to get out of your head, focusing on the other person, really listening to what they're saying and then the conversation will flow more naturally. So it just seemed to me that by what you're saying and what I'm hearing from singles out there in the world today looking for love is that we're actually not we. But I mean, they. I found someone. Yay. I'm not single, but hypothetically I am. Okay, so it's like we're behind a screen and we feel more comfortable behind the screen because we've got time to prepare and answer a sense of humor if we don't have one, hypothetically speaking, or something that might seem a bit savvy or you know, time to Google something or what. Are we far more comfortable with that than being our vulnerable selves in real time? Yeah, I think so. I think as you say, you've kind of got that time to prepare when you're texting or doing it online. And perhaps we're not getting enough experience of face to face interactions and thinking on the spot. Yeah, it can become more difficult, but then you only get more confident with time and it is just about putting yourself out there. And that's where body language can be so important. Because when we're anxious, we get very closed, we avoid eye contact, we look down, we start fidgeting with things. And if you think about someone else doing that, it can be difficult to engage with them or they might come across a bit rude or not interested. So trying to drop those things, trying to have an open, confident body language. You know, shoulders back a little bit, giving eye contact, nodding, smiling, looking engaged. And then naturally you will become more engaged because you're looking at their facial expressions, you're listening to what they're saying. So we can kind of fake it until we become it in body language. Have you seen or heard about YouTube? Is it. I don't want to quote the. Her name is Amy, I think, and as a woman, she kind of power stands in the bathroom before meetings. I mean, what could we kind of do to fake it it until we become it in confidence levels? I guess it's thinking about someone that you respect, that someone who seems confident, who has nice mannerisms and mirroring that, trying to act like that person. And naturally you will start to feel more confident. I'm going to ask a Tricky question now, which is a bit. Do you think there's a possibility that we're wasting a lot of time dating a lot of wrong people, kissing a lot of frogs because we're concentrating too much on being accepted by them than what we're willing to accept? Yeah, we could well be because we're so worried that we're not going to be accepted. We're so worried about criticism from other people and we're putting so much blame on ourselves when things don't work out. Yeah. So it's kind of maybe dating different. I mean I'm just thinking about different scenarios of different friends and different clients in the past dating a lot of the wrong people for long periods of time because we're just happy to be accepted rather than thinking, okay, does this person match up with what I deserve and what I truly want? Want? Yeah, definitely. Because I think especially if we have low self esteem, which a lot of us do. Yeah. We don't have much self worth in a way we're seeking that approval from other people and that's so problematic because not everyone is going to like us, not everyone's going to approve of everything we do and if we get that criticism, it really knocks us. So I, I think you need to be confident in yourself and I know it sounds cheesy, but you need to love yourself before doing a lot of this dating because it can really knock your confidence if you don't believe in yourself. Yeah. And I think it's so, I mean it was a risky question for sure because I know a lot of people out there have done it. I know I may have been guilty of it in the past even, you know, as a matchmaker and an advocate for love, you know, is it this? It's being aware, so self aware of the comfort blanket over anxiety in dating rather than is this person, you know, my person? Moving on from that, let's talk about the theory behind the overcoming strategy. Do you recommend any solid literature that could really help us? A bit of reading on the tube, on the commute or on a Sunday that can really make us more self aware with anxiety to overcome it. Yes, I think that's always a good start is researching about it. So there's a really good website called cci. So if you Google CCI self help resources, it's the first thing that comes up and there's loads of different things on there for social anxiety, generalised anxiety, depression, loneliness, panic. And that's a really good starting point because they explain what it is, the causes of it Coping mechanisms. There's also an overcoming series, so overcoming shyness and social anxiety, Overcoming low self esteem. So it's all CBT based and they've got loads of different resources, loads of exercises you can do to start challenging some of your negative thoughts, start changing how you respond. So that can be. I'd really recommend them. And what else is there? Oh, so I've been reading a bit by David Byrne. So it's from the 80s and it's a little bit sexist sometimes, like the helpless women, there's some of the examples. But I would recommend it because it's a good grounding in CBT. And the chapters most relevant for today are chapter four, which is about starting building self esteem. Chapter 11, which is all about approval addiction. So this need to have approval when actually as long as we love ourselves, then we're not so dependent on other people liking us. And chapter 12, which is love addiction, which is all about actually that it's lovely having someone who loves us, but we can also be very happy and have a lovely fulfilling life on our own as well. Oh my gosh. Perhaps we should do a bit of a book club. That sounds fantastic. It's called Feeling Good. That book, Feeling Good. And I think, you know, with so many people listening in and so many of my clients like starting over again in love. I mean, it does start with loving yourself. It does start with feeling confident, happy, you know, 100% happy in oneself. If that's, you know, it's the optimum level, if it's possible before seeking happiness with someone else. You know, not seeking happiness from someone else, but being able to share the happiness that's within. And I think a book like that for someone who's starting again, who's fearful of rejection, who. I mean, one of the questions that I haven't had time to ask, but different people have put to me about trust issues. What if that person I fall for cheats on me? Or what if they're dating someone else? Because that's a whole topic of when do we ask about exclusivity? There's so many things to worry about in this modern day world of dating that no wonder anxiety is rife. I mean, I'm not judging it, we're accepting it and we're normalizing it, in fact. Yeah, yeah. Because there's so much uncertainty when it comes with dating and that can make us feel really anxious and we can't control how the other person's gonna respond and that can be really nerve wracking as well. So One thing that's become apparent and very clear to me today is that we can find ways to overcome anxiety, coping mechanisms to deal with it, ways to record different triggers, how we felt, what happened, where were we. And so we can kind of find ourselves in a neutral spot if we work hard enough at it and immerse ourselves rather than avoid ourselves from anxiety. Is that right? Immerse ourselves rather than avoid it? Yeah. So putting yourself immersion in anxiety out of your comfort zone. Yeah. So, okay, top three tips before we leave. Overcoming anxiety in this modern dating world. Getting out of your head. So when you're worrying, refocusing your attention externally, thinking about your body language, you know, open body language, pretending you're someone who's really confident and that will kick in. And remembering that when someone rejects you, don't take it personally. There could be a whole host of reasons. Thank you, Ms. Jarja Gould. You've been amazing. No, I've loved it. Thanks for having me. You're so welcome. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan. This has been Love Lessons. We've been talking about overcoming anxiety in this modern dating world. We'll be back next week with another session. Bye for now. WRS women's radio station, Voice of Women Worldwide. This is Amy Liu, Voice of China at Women's Radio Station. Welcome to future Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. After a long day, I like to sit in my bath with a glass of wine and listen to women's radio cameras. Came Kate, you're listening to in conversation with on Women's Radio Station. 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