Mother’s Hour With Carolyn Van Beers – When The Going Gets Tough

When the going gets tough, the tough. Fantastic. Hello and welcome to Mothers Are with me, Carolyn Van Beers. Yes, you've guessed it, that's today's show. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Many of us have actually no idea of the resilience and the strength that we have as mums, because most of the time we don't even tap into it, either because we haven't had to or because we've kind of stagnated. We've accepted our lot, we've plateaued. So today's show is hopefully going to teach us what we're really capable of. My guest today was literally forced to find out exactly what she was made of after the breakup of her marriage. Left to raise two kids under two and very alone, she really reached rock bottom. Fast forward a couple of years and not only has this amazing mum found her plan B, not only has she survived, she's positively thrived. She's found an inner strength she never knew she had, a resilience that could win any war. And she's the happiest she could ever imagine she could be. I'm very excited to welcome to the studio today journalist, author of the Backup Plan, and influencer, Alijah Alice Judge Talbot. Hello. Hi, Carolyn. Thank you for that lovely introduction. Was I right? Well, I hope so. So, welcome to Women's Radio station. Thank you very much for joining us today. I'm so excited because not only are you going to help us find this inner strength that we never knew we had, but not only is Alice an amazing author, we're going to have a look at her book in a little while. And she's also a happiness expert and a life. And the first thing you said to me when we spoke on the phone about the show was, actually, Carolyn, what I really want to do is help other mums, help other women to find this resilience, this strength that we have inside of us. I think that's it. I didn't realize 10 years ago that I had the power in me to be happy, which sounds crazy. I just thought being miserable was part and parcel of life and I just had to plod along and get on with it and push through and just make the best out of it. I didn't realize how much of our happiness is within our own control. Wow. That is. We are so going to do this. Well today I'm very, very excited and I think probably a lot of mums out there maybe need it. Plan B and or definitely need to tap into their tenacity, into their courage. Believe me, it's there. I've had to do that. We spoke about that, and we will a little bit later. That when I was presented with the idea that I'm having triplets, I really never thought I would be able to make it. And again, found this inner strength. Obviously not qu. Shocking as finding yourself completely alone with two kids under two, but I don't know. I think it's probably within the same parameters. I think I'd be pretty shocked if I found out I was having triplets. It was tough, but the tough got going. Yeah. Okay, so we're gonna start with the show with finding out a little bit more about you, Alice. I mean, you don't strike me as the kind of woman who would let her marriage go without a bit of a fight or. Well, I was a very different person then, I think. I mean, I still think about it now, about what happened, and it was. It wasn't a bad. I mean, it was an awful situation, but it wasn't kind of volatile. I met my ex husband when I was 18 at university, and we kind of grew up together, but that was part of the problem that we just grew apart. And even now, we're still on very good terms. So it wasn't like. It wasn't a very, very difficult, awful time between the two of us. It just organically happened. But I was thinking about this show this morning and thinking about the things I wanted to talk about my marriage. And I was just remembering the time I used to live in a small village in Buckinghamshire where I'd moved from London. So I lost a lot of my friends. Not many people I knew had kids, and all the mums who had kids that I knew were all pretty miserable. And that just became such a normalized thing that your marriage was pretty awful. You wouldn't have sex with your husband if you could help it. Yeah, you try and, you know, sidestepping. You'd go and drink a bottle of Prosecco on a Friday night just to escape the hell. That was, you know, being in an unhappy marriage and being a mum. But I think so much of it for me was tied to identity. You know, I was. I said to you on the phone, I had this huge job in London before, and I came out of London, I had the kids, one child. And I just was demoted suddenly to someone's mother, which was a very difficult thing. When I was used to being in charge of a team and, you know, given pay rises and job appraisals and told I was doing a good job. No one Tells you you're doing a good job when you have a baby. So I'm going to interject that. So do you think it's a very weird question in retrospect, if you had carried on with being the career woman, stayed in London, that you'd still be with Will? No. No. All I ever wanted to do was have a baby, okay? So I was. That. That was like a double whammy, because having a baby made me miserable, but it was all I'd ever wanted to do, right? So I couldn't quite understand how I'd got everything I ever wanted. I've got a lovely husband, a house in the country and this great baby. And I was miserable, so there was no way I would have stayed in London. So I want to get to the bottom of this because I. So do I. I fight, you know, to keep my marriage alive because I feel like, you know, we're on a bit of a journey together. And I mean, do you think, was it that bad? Do you think you gave up too early? Was there something catastrophic that happened? No, no, there wasn't anything catastrophic that happened. But I look at us now and we are completely different people and we could never be married to each other. Okay. But at the same time, I look back at the me. I mean, I got married when I was 23. Not at all. Why? Who gets married when they're 20? We had our wedding reception in a nightclub. I mean, we were very, very much in love, but we were very immature then. And I thought in my immaturity that you got married and that was it, you were set for life. You didn't then have to work and you just mentioned going on a journey with your husband and, you know, how you develop together and you work at it. I didn't think you did that. I just thought you got married and that was it. Like, that was job done, you could sit back and relax. Now that's the next 40 years sorted. Whereas now going into relationships, I know that it's compromise and it's work and it's. I mean, people don't call marriage a job for nothing. And it's not natural. You know, we weren't born to get married. We've created the institution of marriage. And so, yes, you've really got to work it if you want it to work. You've got to keep reminding yourself of the good things. And like you said, patience and compromise. I've never compromised before. Yeah. In my marriage, I think probably why I didn't work. But we didn't. We Weren't terrible at compromising because I was, you know, I was so headstrong that I would always want my own way. And I think that was part of the reason why we started deteriorating. Because he would say, well, no, actually. And I'd be like, what? No, we're not going to do what I think is right. So, yeah. So what did happen? How long. How long were you in the. This marriage is over for before you. Actually, not long. I think children. I think having the children expedited the whole process. I think having children makes or breaks a marriage, and we just weren't strong enough to keep it going. Hux was, I think, six months old when he. When he started leaving. Well, when he kind of left. And we started having those discussions about being apart. So, I mean, I used to look at kids who were with separated parents, babies, and think, how did you have kids when you must have known your relationship was on the rock? So I found that really difficult to be kind of on the receiving end, I guess, to that judgment, because I had two babies and I was separated. But there wasn't one thing that happened. The moment that it happened was. And I don't know if you've got to this bit in the book yet, that Will went away for a week to kind of get his head together. He went to London, stayed away, and then he came back and said, look, do you want to do the same thing? Do you want to go, like, up to Nottingham to see our friends to get some headspace? And I was like, actually, I've been at home with the kids for two years now. I'm gonna go and see my friend in New York. So I went to New York for a week to get my head together. I did read that bit. It sounded like a good time. It was a great time. It's a great time. And it was kind of then. That was the first time that I'd flown on my own. That was the first time I'd been out on my own. That was the first time I'd done anything with anyone other than my husband, because I met him when I was a kid. So that was when I realized that I could. This freedom was kind of there and I wanted it. And that's where you got that kind of little bit of strength to go, do you know what? I'm gonna do this. And we got. Yeah, I got home. It was that day. The day that I got home. I read it last night, the day I got home. We said, look, this isn't working. And we both agreed it Was very, like. It was almost comical that we just went, okay, cool, Done. It's so frightening, though. I mean, if I thought of that, it's just because, like you said, you know, you've been in your marital bed for all those years. There was so much there. I tell you what, that was the hardest thing of all was getting rid of that bed. Makes me feel emotional now thinking about it. Don't cry in the studio. It's really hot in here anyway. Okay, so you've got to the point you said, you know, we're going our separate ways. What happened next then? Well, we did argue a bit after then because, I mean, it was quite natural, I suppose, that you're trying to separate your lives. But what happened to you? Like, you know, because you're alone now and you've got two little kids. Do you know? I don't remember. I think that I just got on with it. I thought I could either sink here, I could either. I didn't think this. I think somewhere in my conscience thought this. I thought, I can either go under now or I can pull myself together and I can just get on with it. So I managed to somehow pull myself together and get on with it. And you. Obviously, the book we're going to talk about in a little while, but it does talk about you finding this strength and this resilience. How long do you think you were struggling before? Was it kind of a sudden like, oh, gosh, I've got this. I'm gonna be really strong, or was it quite gradual when you. I can't. You know, I can't remember. I had really bad postnatal depression when my son was born. And when I went to New York, I didn't take my Prozac with me. And I just thought, right, that's it. I'm not gonna take Prozac anymore. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna be okay. And then I got back and I was so. Hell, I wasn't making any money. And I'd been left. I had to. I was claiming tax credits, but that's not. It wasn't enough to live on. And just. I think all my focus was on making money. That was all it was, was money at the time. And then kind of two years later, my psyche and my confidence caught up, and I realized suddenly that I'd done it. Whoa. Okay. So that was almost quite sudden, but actually quite gradual. Because if you think of it as two years. Yeah. Also would just like to say, don't just come off Prozac. I don't think that's what they would recommend. No, they wouldn't. Gradually. Gradually. But that's what you did and you were fine. Yeah, and I've never been depressed since. I think now because I know I can get out, get out of a hole if I need to get out of a hole. That's very interesting. I'm so excited to talk about your book in a few minutes time. Alice has written the backup plan, learning to live again after my not so happy ever after. We're going to talk about that after a few short messages. If you do want to get in contact with me on the show, it's caroline@womensradiostation.com if you're have any questions for Alice, we'll be giving you all her details a little bit later on as well. And maybe if you stay with us, we'll find out whether you have inner strength. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. 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We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org you're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's wellbeing, women's radio stations creating a global network for the empowerment of women. And we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradiostation, that's Womens Radio stn or Facebook. Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Welcome back to Mothers Hour with me, Carolyn Van Beers here on Women's Radio Station. We have got such a good show today. We're talking to Alice Judge Talbot not only about her journey, but also about the strength and resilience that us mums have inside of us. And if you can just tap into that, you will be amazed. Alice, thank you again for joining us. Hi, Caroline. So I think we should talk about your book because it's a brilliant read. Thank you. It's very funny. It's brutally honest. In fact, you talk about on the first bit, you know, your one night stand. I think, you know, I always have people say, why on earth did you write about sex in the first chapter? And I'm like, come on, we all have sex. What is wrong? I love that. If we're lucky. What is wrong with talking about it? We've all had that awkward moment where we wake up in a bed with someone we really don't want to be in a bed with. Speak for yourself. And I just wrote about it in a lot of detail. No, no, I loved it. And it really sets you up for beautiful observations. Beautiful. You know, the. How you tap into your emotions, like a little drip that's just feeding into you. It's. It's. Well, I just think that was in such contrast to what my Life was supposed to be like this middle class, Waitrose shopping, country dwelling, you know, not in a bed, sit in a single bed with someone who'd been fast. And I really felt like my skin was slightly crawling when you described the sheets because I know those nylon, not the polish, they were brown. Who has brown sheets? Who does? I tell you who does. Men in their late twenties who don't care. Oh my goodness. So the book is called the Backup Plan. Yeah. But you didn't write it. We wrote a little, Quite, quite a bit. After your breakup. Yes. At 27 years old. This is the little prayer on the back. I found myself with a broken down marriage, two children under two to raise on my own. I had no other option to survive. Nah, scratch that. I needed to thrive. But where would I begin? I wasn't sure if I knew how to live alone, let alone how to boss it solo with a couple of kids in tow. Yeah, I mean, before I lived alone, I don't think I'd ever read an electricity meter or you know, change the light bulb because I'd lived with my ex husband since I was 18 and I just didn't know how to be a grown up on my own. That was a weird feeling. So when you and your husband split up, did you stay in the family home? What kind of happened? Yes, only for six months. And then I moved. We lived in a tiny town and I kind of felt like all the friends or, you know, when you become a mum, you get thrown together with all the other women who've just had babies. As if you're supposed to have things in common with these people that you've never met before just because you've had babies. Which I found very tedious. And I felt like after we broke up, they all saw me as a threat or, you know, like I was after their husband or they almost looked down on me. Yeah, I mean, I always wanted to say to them, you know, I can't, I can't handle my own husband, let alone yours. I'm really not here for that. But yeah, I wanted to move away. So moved. Not far. I moved five miles down the road into the nearest big town just to have a bit more going on. Yep. And a fresh start. Almost. Yes. Yeah, fresh start. A house that just would be mine. It was a tiny, tiny house. It was a two up, two down little house in Milton Keynes. But I loved it. I covered the entire thing with fairy lights and Cath, it was like Cath Kidston vomited in there. It was just, you know, so Girly. Because I'd lived with a man all my adult life. I just really wanted to make it really me. I mean, it was awful. It gave me a migraine that lasted a couple of years. You know, just having as many fairy lights on as possible at all times. So I think the incentive to write the book is almost. Well, what was the incentive to write the book? I think I have my clue. But quite selfishly, I've just always wanted to write a book, and I didn't know what to write a book about. And then I got approached by a publisher who said, well, what do you think about writing a parenting book? And I was like, come on, I'm divorced at the age of 27 with two young kids. What do I know about parenting? And then kind of the conversation developed, and I think. I mean, I had very big imposter syndrome over what I'd been through, and it wasn't anything big or clever to shout about. But then I started thinking about, and like you said, it was a few years on from the divorce, about how far I'd come. And I thought, actually, maybe there is a story there that I can share about women really hitting their rock bottom and climbing their way out of it and finding themselves stronger because of what's happened to them. Well, that's exactly what I was hoping you were gonna say, because I think. No, because I think it is a book that you've written to help others, you know, and you say, even on the back, it's the book I needed to read when I was going through all these different things. And I think if any of you out there are. Doesn't matter. It doesn't need to be a breakup, but it could be any little blip. You know, it could be a parent that is quite poorly or anything that's like rocking your status quo. This book is a really good read. It's refreshing. You're very honest, and it does tap into how you can find this incredible strength when your looks down. Well, I think one of the biggest things I found about motherhood is that it's so competitive. So I felt that when I got divorced that I'd completely failed. And I think there are so many things that you do when you're a mum that make you feel like you failed when you really haven't. And I just. I wanted to talk about how you don't have to be so hard on yourself because you feel like you're failing. Failing. What's that Michelle Obama quote? Failure is a feeling long before it becomes reality. So you feel that you're failing long before it ever happens. You can stop that. You don't have to feel like a failure. And I think I watched a documentary with Louis Thoreau. Did you watch it? Mothers on the Edge? Oh, no, I haven't, but it sounds like my kind of thing. It was really revealing. And all the mums in there, when you talk to them, they felt they failed, and they felt they failed their babies. And it was. A lot of them had been sectioned by their partners as opposed to themselves. I mean, a couple of them went to the doctor and just went, help me. You know, they'd reached the edge, but there they were comparing themselves to everyone else. This competitive nature, a lot of Instagram, and, you know, all that kind of thing. That is so damaging. And I think the difference is, you know, people say, oh, it's okay to advertise on Instagram. You see, the thing is, when we watch advert on tv, I know that's a setup. I know that's a model. I know that's a fake reality when I'm looking at it on Instagram. You know, oh, no, she's a mum like me, and she's having this perfect life. That's the danger. And I think we've got to get that out there to. To all of us, because it's very new, this mum thing, and we need to go. Stop. You have to stop. You have to know. You have to put this into perspective because it's gonna break you, because it's every day you're doing this to yourself over and over again, and you come out, you need this skirt. You need this bottle. You need this. You need this. You need this to have a good life. You need this. Yeah. Yeah. It's exhausting. Yeah. And we have talked about that quite a lot on Mother's Hour, but it is really, really important and is happening to so many of us. And like you just said, it's so competitive. You just feel like. So when did you say, do you know what? I love being me? It's okay. When did you. Oh, I don't. I mean, I'm still very hard on myself and that's. No, you're not. I am. That's something I'm working a lot on. But I actually, I was doing a thing with my. My daughter takes my. My Instagram photographs. When I need a picture for Instagram, my daughter does it. And we were having a mini photo shoot last night. I. I like to work with small businesses and help promote them. And there's one who I do a bit of work with. They. They run a lovely art club. They're called nine by Nine Art Club. And then sent me a T shirt to match a piece of artwork that I've got in my kitchen that just says Fearless, which is my favorite piece of art in the house. So Elfie came and took a picture of me and she didn't say, mummy, say cheese. She went, mummy, shout, I love myself. How amazing. Like, I don't have the wisdom to say to someone who's having their picture taken, say, I love myself. So sometimes you just need someone else to tell you that you love yourself. But, yeah, I try and remember that. I try and do positive affirmations. I have a piece of paper in my study that I look at every day that's got a list of all my achievements on. And if I ever wobble, I have a look at that and remind myself how good I am. But we all need help. I still don't think that I'm amazing, but I am. And I need people like you to remind me of that. So thanks. Well, I think you're amazing. And a friend of mine, she's also a triplet mum, quite a lot younger than me, and she has four children all in the same school year. It's just how it happened. Yeah. Wow. Unbelievable. And she used to write on the mirror in lipstick, you've got this or you can do that, you know, And I thought, that is brilliant because you're always looking, walking past the mirror and it's just a little reminder and we should do that, you know, all the hand, you know, hand to heart, comforting yourself and saying, you know, your three words, how great you are. I think that's so important in motherhood. And this is something I prioritize and I've had a hard time for it over Instagram, but I always try and spoil myself. So as much as finances allow, I will go and get my nails done. I will put the kids in childcare for an hour and just sit and have a glass of wine on my own. I think that's so important. And it gets forgotten when you're a mum. You don't look after yourself and you've got to put your own oxygen mask on before anyone else's, otherwise no one else will be happy. Yep. Another thing that I used to do, I used to get. Well, I couldn't afford it, but I used to get this girl to come in and help me a little bit with the triplets because I had an older child as well and she would Come in. And the best thing she did was when I took the kids up and put them to bed and read a story to my eldest. I would come back down and she'd done all the kitchen, lit a candle. And so when my husband got home, I had a chance of being lovely and pleasant. Because it's when you come back down to that absolute like, no, I'm gonna start again here, you know, and wash up and do all that kind of stuff that it becomes. Yeah, really tricky. So it is small things like that, if you can just factor those in, you know. And that was something I couldn't really afford, but it was the best money I ever spent. Yeah. Saved your sanity. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so we can talk a little bit more. I want to know what's your favourite bit of the book? Oh, that's a really good question. What's your favourite chapter? I like when I talk about all the men I've dated because there are some weirdos out there. There are some weirdos out there. How long did it take you to get back out on the scene? I was quite quick about it because I felt very lonely and that's what motivated going on dates. I just. We'd been in a bad place in our marriage. That worked quite quick, though. A week? No, a few months. A few months. But I'd felt like I'd been a bit neglected, I guess. And I just. Honestly, I just wanted to sit across from someone having a cocktail and for them to tell me I look nice. That was all I wanted. But of course, I fell in love with the first man I dated, which was awful. It was a disaster, absolute disaster. I didn't fall in love with him, but I thought at the time, this is it, I'm in love. Let's move in. Like, what are we? Let's have a bait. Oh, my God. It was just. I look back on it now and I think, poor you. Poor me for going through. But I guess that's what happens when you suddenly find yourself without a marriage. You just need. You just think you can replace it with something else, which you can't. No, no, exactly, exactly. We'll talk a little bit more about the book when we come back. And we're also going to be talking about how you find this inner strength and how you find the courage to go on and how you find your happiness. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the partners platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start. At empowerandenrich.org, you will find a home host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Ann Kelleher. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shop interviewing customers asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip. For our listeners, the most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If, like me, you're a mum, juggling far too many balls and dropping most of this is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together with spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories. It will be refreshing, honest and funny. Look at being a mum. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntousous.org.uk welcome to the Women's Radio station supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand. With a wide range of sponsorship opportunities including individual programs, we can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com women's radio station supporting women's well being welcome back to Mothers Hour with me, Carolyn Van Beers here on Women's radio station. Thanks for staying with us. We're having a great show with Alice Judge Talbot. We've been talking about her amazing book. Please get this book if you can. It's the backup plan. It's basically the plan B. When it all goes a bit beat tong, you need a plan B. And boy, did you find a good one, didn't you? I found a few, I think. I mean, the plan B isn't necessarily what we all would say is, that is the amazing plan, but. But you actually think that your life's better now? Yes. Well, all I ever wanted to be was a mum. And I just couldn't wait until I could stay at home and do crafting and make cakes and I mean, now I'm like, do not mix the play doh together. I'm awful at crafting, I'm awful at all that stuff. But it took, unfortunately, it took having kids for me to realize how bad I am. I'm not a maternal mother. I love my children, but no one else's children. And I do love being a mum, but I'm not that person and I have so much respect for any woman who is able to stay at home all day with the kids and entertain them and, and my goodness, the women that homeschool, they are on a different level. And teachers, anyone who spends their days with children, I just think are amazing. But it took realizing how important my career was to me until I was a full time mum. Yep. And I think that's very important when you can look at yourself and go, that's not me, but this is me. And that's great because then your children will go up and go, look at my amazing mum, look at what she's achieved, you know, and they'll look that to you. Whereas the other mum, the crafting mum at home, will has her satisfaction by being with them all the time and giving back to them. And I think it's. If you can just say this is fine and recognise that. And like you said, accepting yourself instead of trying to what your path is, I think is very important. My mum stayed at home with us when I was, was a kid and I think that's why I wanted to do the same. And I had the most amazing, wonderful, perfect childhood. But yeah, that's just not for me. And like I said, I think for your kids and your family to be happy, you need to be happy first. I was talking to another mum last week and she said, I've just got to, you know, a point where I said to my Husband. Oh, my gosh. I. Everyone's world revolves around me. And he said, well, that's great, you know, you're such a great person. And she said, no, but my world doesn't revolve around me. It's just everyone else. I do everyone else, but I don't do me. And that is the most important person that you need to address first is yourself. Absolutely. And when you. Obviously, you had the marriage breakup and you give a really beautiful quote about whether you went mad first or whether you went mad after. I wasn't sure if I was going mad because my divorce, my marriage was ending, or if my marriage was ending because I'd gone mad. Having kids. Yeah, I did find having children exceedingly difficult, mentally. I had postnatal depression with both of them. Like, I went properly quite bonkers for a while. I was. I had. What's it called when you're scared to go outside? Oh, yes, Acrophobia. I had acrophobia. I couldn't leave the house, I couldn't be anywhere. I couldn't be in big supermarkets because I found them too loud. I got very. That at the time, there were a couple of pets thefts in the village that we lived in and I got obsessed with our personal safety. And to this day, I know that if I start getting anxious about locking doors or white van, then that. That's my anxiety coming back and that's when I really need to take a step back and just relax and chill out and put myself first for a bit. But, yeah, I used to ring the police. The police would come over and they would say, no, you're fine, you're fine, everything's going to be fine. It's just. They're just kids playing outside the door. They're not casing your. Your house for burglaries. And looking back on it now, I just think, God, I feel so sorry for the me back then who just. I didn't know what was going on. Well, when you have. I mean, it's actually a medical thing when you have a big shock, like something like your marriage breaking down or maybe there's been a death. Death. My friend, my very, very good friend, her husband died. And it's called temporary insanity. And it is temporary and it depends on you and your recovery, how long it lasts, but you are temporary insane. And I just think it's quite funny that you use the word mad because mad also stands for mum and dad. You are mad. And my friend actually had the T shirt made and she says, mum and dad because she is Mum and Dad now, like you. You are Mum and dad and a really big question is how you know if something's happening. So I get report from school about one of my children and it's not how I want it to be, then I can go up to my husband and have a discussion about that. But you haven't got that and that must be. No, I kind of do. We do talk about that kind of stuff and I try to. He has the kids every other weekend, but he does like to feel as involved as possible. He lives a couple of hours away now, so he's not there in presence. But I do try and keep him involved in that kind of stuff. But it's not that stuff that is hard when you're a separated family. The stuff that's hard is having no one to share the fun and the good stuff with the achievements. That's the difficult bit. So how have you got around that? I'm really close to my mum, so she shares a lot of that stuff with me. So what would you say to other mums out there who are maybe on the same path? I think you need someone. You need someone to be close to and I know a lot of other single mums kind of find solace in single mums too. So you have a friend who you do share that stuff with. There's not really anyone I know who. A single parent that's close to me. So you use your mum, but. Yeah, so I've been very lucky. But maybe if you haven't got your mum very nearby or whatever, then to find a group of. I think there are lots of single parents support groups out there as well. And if not, there's lots online. Yeah, yeah, you do need it. You need. You can't do everything on your own. It's just, it's. It's so hard. Even now people go to me, God, you're amazing. Like, how did you do it? And I was like, well, I just got on with it. But looking back, I think, bloody hell, that was hard. It was hard work. So any mums that are listening out there, maybe they're listening in today and they're thinking, gosh, but where did she get that inner strength form? What would you say to them? How can they tap into perhaps their inner core, their tenacity that I think we have. But unless you do have a big shock, perhaps we don't use it. I think with me, I just. It's a very difficult question because I've learned it all quite organically over the Last seven years, I think where I started, I just started trying to find joy in the little things. So, like, doing a barbecue by myself used to give me the biggest thrill because I'd never done a barbecue before. And I bought a barbecue and I started doing a barbecue once a week for the kids. And that was like, yeah, okay, I can do a barbecue. If I can do a barbecue, what else can I do? And I used to feel so proud of myself for that barbecue. And I still do, actually. When am I coming? So it went on from the barbecue to realizing that I was actually, I was paying our bills every month and I didn't need a man to help me pay the bills. And I was like, right, okay, well, if I can pay the bills every month, I could start doing other things than I used to get. And I still get a thrill every time. Well, I hate this job, but I do get a thrill every time I take the bins out because it's something I always used to nag my ex husband to do. Take the bins out, take the bin. Take the bins out. It's not a girl's job, is it, taking the bins out. But every time I do it, I think, I don't need a man. Yeah. So it's finding joy and pride for these. Everyone has these little moments every day and write them down if it helps. Just find joy and pride in what you do every day and then look back on them. Don't look at your life and think, well, you know what? I'm going to be happy when I've achieved such and such. Look back on what you've already achieved and be proud of that. And I think when I look at you and I look at your blog and you write a lot down or you've written a book and that I think that can really clarify what you and who you are. Writing things down. Yes. And there are so many places you can do it. Put on Instagram, put it in your notes app, on your phone, put it on. Put it in a blog, Put it in a private blog. There are so many places to write down the way you're feeling and the way you want your life to be or the way that your life is. And for me, it's been excellent therapy. I think that was the best thing about the book is that it was like a really expedited version of therapy, getting everything down. I mean, when I look back and I was told I was having triplets and I was like, oh, my goodness me, you know, this is where we, you Know, I really bond with you here because I had to find that inner strength and courage to do this. I mean, how did you not panic? Because that's something you find out. Oh, I did. But then you kind of have to. You're like, right, I've just. I gotta do this. Yeah. I think probably like you, you don't actually realize you are becoming Jungle Jane. You're becoming this primal mum, you know, But I think something maybe because we've had children, because we, you know, must be within us. And, you know, if you look back at history and the way some of these women are found, like I said, this tenacity and this strength, we are just amazing. And it's there within you. But sometimes it takes you to be pushed to the limit or to get to rock bottom, like you said, to find and to rise up again with me. I really did find that. I was like a Jungle Jane, you know, I just started. I looked at these three tiny babies and there was slight moments of panic in the hospital, like, oh, my God, I don't know which one to touch. I don't know which one to pick up. Oh, you know, that moment. But then, you know, getting home, I just had to get on with it, you know, and get the help that I could. But yes, I did find an inner strength that. And it was very humbling as well, because my previous life, where I could, you know, I had luxuries and time to do things, you know, like I said to you on the phone, personal hygiene was at an all time low. I've worked on that since. Anyway, so back to you. And do you think there is. I'm talking about marriage now, okay? Because I know there's lots of mums who are probably listening who are recognizing some of what you're saying. Do you think we should save a marriage? And when do you think we should bail? I mean, is there. Oh, God, I've got no idea. I just. I don't know. I don't know. And I mean, it's. It's really interesting, isn't it? Because, I mean, now I'm in a situation, I've kind of got a partner that's on and off and we can't leave each other alone and we keep going back and I'm like, well, when do we give up on this? Or do we keep. We so enjoy spending time together. But then it just gets. It just gets to these bad bits and I'm like, well, I don't like those bits. But can you pick and choose when you're in a long term relationship and I find it really hard, like we've been engaged twice and we're still like trying to work things out. I find it really hard now to know that, I mean, there's no blueprint for a relationship, is there? I think that the thing that I found the best now, which I never did in my marriage, is talking to people, talking to each other, talking to friends, talking to therapists. I think that is the best thing you can do for any kind of relationship. But God, I, I've got, don't ask me about advice for relationships. I don't know. But I think what you did say is finding your inner happiness and being a lot more content with yourself is definitely a good place to be because if you're happy then you've got some chance of helping the relationship and you've got to find someone who prioritises that as well. We're going to talk a little bit more about that when we come back. We're also going to find out how we can actually get in touch with you and have a little look at your blog, a little bit more about your book and see if we can get that inner strength back to you. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism. Women the possibility of are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Tracey Weedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award winning family run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth and fine art. You can contact us on 0208-658-4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free no obligation quotation at Brownhills. We've got you covered. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on Women's Radio Station. 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We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@media mattersforwomen.org you're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station is creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradiostation, that's womensradio, stn or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Welcome back to Mother's Hour with me, Carolyn Van Beers. And don't forget, if you want to get in contact with me direct, It's Caroline@womensradiostation.com so we're in the last part of our Mother's Hour special talking to the wonderful Alice Judge Talbot, who is an author. She had to have a plan B, so she wrote about it. The backup plan. Brilliant book. But you're not just an author. No, I do have a few other things going on. Strings to your bone? Yes. Fingers in pies, I was going to say, but I like it. I like it. Happiness Coach. Is that right? Yes, Yes. I do a lot of mentoring for women who are. See, my background's in marketing and advertising, so I do. I've started a couple of small businesses, so I mentor women starting their own small businesses. And it's more, rather than business and marketing advice, it's. It's just more giving confidence. I think women find it very difficult, especially if you're a mum and you need to. I mean, as I did. Through childcare or marriage. You need to start a business or do something from home that will make you money. I think women really do sometimes just need to give themselves permission and get the confidence to do that. One of the things we always talk about is how you know when you're a woman and you've got a business, it's like, oh, you're a mumpreneur or you've got. You're a girl boss, you've got a little business. Oh, how lucky. Got a little business. That's lovely. No, we've got a business. Just as a man would have a bit. When does a dad call themselves, oh, yeah, I'm a dad. As soon as men start applying their gender or their parental situation to their careers, then we can call ourselves mumpreneurs. But no, I feel very strongly about women going in strong if you're going to start a business or if you're going to go back to work and giving yourselves permission to be as powerful as the men in your life. Absolutely. In my day, they used to call it a cottage industry. Yes. Even worse way back then. That's very interesting and very, very important because it kind of saved me a little bit when I had the triplets. I was in a lot and life was very monotonous because I was not just doing it once, I was doing it three times, three sets of nappies and I was going slightly mad. And I started a very, very tiny little clothes company called My Little Coat and made these beautiful little vintage coats and had a little online shop. And it was so nice to do something and very important for us. My. To feel important again and feel like we're doing something. Yeah, I think doing something and contributing. And I also think it's very important for women to have their own financial independence. When I was married, I had none of that and I found that one of the hardest things, that I didn't have a rainy day fund, I didn't have any income of my own. So I think it's very important, if women can, to have this bit of independence. Yeah. And all you need to do is basically find something you love or find something that you're good at, make it your passion, your passion, make it your living. And, you know, you're already there, aren't you? Yeah. I mean, this is my job. I'm here having a really nice chat to you. How cool is that? I get paid to do things. This is just brilliant. And I think all women need to find their version of that. Not what they told me. No, but. So if anyone's listening, how can they maybe do one of your online courses? Well, I have a website, it's Slay Life and I have two courses. One of the courses is geared towards women making money online through writing or through their Instagram profile. Is just all the ways that I make money online. And the other one is about starting a small business. So it's all about the tools that you need to start a small business. All the bits that you need to really get out there, get in front of people and to get an income going that way. What's the name of it again? It's Slay Life S L A Y. Because I think slay is a lovely word and it's what we should all be doing to our lives. We should all be killing it. That's wonderful. And people can just do a one day course or they're all four week courses. So they're online. So it's just videos and resources, talking through. It's really, really kind of. I say basic, but it's just like a walkthrough. The exact things you need to do to start a business. Because it's all very well and good to say, oh, I want to do, I want to make vintage coats. But then how do you market them? How do you reach your audience? So it's all about reaching the audience that you need to reach, but with a heavy slant on having the confidence to do it and having the empowerment to do it, which I think is the most important thing when it comes to starting a business. I salute you, lady. That's fantastic. And that is so important because a lot of us have these ideas and we sit with them for quite a long time. We never actually push ourselves that little way. So definitely try that. I will put all the details up on the website as well if you want more on that. We're getting towards the end of the show. I need three top tips for mums if they are listening and maybe they need to tap into this. What would you say? I would say one of the biggest pieces of advice I ever got was don't be embarrassed about changing your, your path. Don't be worried that you're being fickle or you don't know what you want. I think the most important thing when it comes to success is saying, actually, this isn't working for me. I'm going to try something different now. There's nothing to be embarrassed about when you do that. I think that is. That's a very, very powerful thing to be able to do. I Like it. And just look on your life as kind of the things that go wrong are lessons. I never. I say I never regret anything because everything I've ever done, done that I would have feelings of regret towards. I turn that into a learning. Like sleazy beds. I'm never gonna wake up in a bed, and I never have woken up in a bed. Sit again. Never say never. And then I think the last thing is just look after yourself. Yourself. Yeah. Whatever it takes to make you a little bit happy. Take 10 minutes out to read a book, have a glass of wine. Sit on a bench in the sunshine. Anything that you can do. Walk barefoot. Yeah. Walk barefoot in the grass. Just make yourself happy. And we're hearing this so much on Mother's Hour. You've got to take that time for yourself and tell yourself that you are fantastic, because you are. You are throwing out a couple of kids as well. Oh, yeah. What man has ever done that? Exactly. Absolutely. All right, so what are you up to at the moment? You are doing the online courses. Yeah. I've just released a podcast, which has been such a pleasure. I realized, obviously, I've got my backup plan and the story behind what happened to me and how I had to find the strength in hitting rock bottom. But I knew that if I'd got this story, if I'd done. If I'd been through this experience, then there'd be other women out there who would have been through similar experiences. So I went and found some incredible women. We've got Azma Khan, who been the only UK chef to be featured on Netflix's Chef's Table. She's an Indian immigrant who runs a women only kitchen on Carnaby street in her really super successful restaurant. She's just got the most incredible story. So I spoke to her about her. Her story, how she lifts other women up. It's amazing to listen to. Then there's my friend Kat Sims, who writes a blog called not so Smug now. She's hilariously funny and she's a really, really strong female. And then Stephanie Yeboa, who's an amazing body positivity advocate. And then we've got Emily Clarkson, who is also kind of a really strong feminist. She's a fantastic person to listen to. She's all about fitness. So I've got a real interesting mix of women telling their stories about where their lives have gone a little bit awry, but how they've managed to pivot or pick themselves up and have taken themselves off in a different direction. That turned out to be really successful for them. And it's honestly, it's been the biggest pleasure to speak to these women about the trials they've been through and how they've come out stronger. I think that you have just hit the nail on the head with these podcasts, because the one thing that we women. And this is very sexist, but it's one thing that we do so well is reinvent ourselves. Yes, we are. Look at Madonna. But we are so brilliant at that. We are so, so good at. I remember when every time I would start a new year at school, I'd be like, okay, this is the new me. Yeah. You know, the new Carolyn is going to be a little bit more like this, and we're so good at that. And men actually don't do that very well. No, but maybe that's something, because I was always the same at school, and I've always been the same. I've always been like, right, new haircut. I'm going to be a completely different person. This is going to be fantastic. Maybe that's something that's, you know, intuitive within us that we grow up with, that we already know, whereas it's something that men and not very good at doing. And it's like when you move to a new house, you embrace that and, you know, that can be your empowerment. And, yeah, I mean, if you are listening and you are stagnating a little bit in life, definitely have a listen to your podcast. We'll find out where you can. But remember, you can reinvent yourself. You can. Like you said, don't be afraid of changing your course. No, no, exactly. I think pivoting, that's a great word to pivot. To go, oh, this isn't working for me. I'm going to try this. This instead. How cool is that? We can just do that. And why would we carry on on a course that's not working for us? And some of the side roads are the interesting roads. Absolutely. We like those. The scenic routes. Okay, so how can we find your podcasts? So my podcast is everywhere that podcasts are. It's on Apple and Spotify and Google. Okay, wonderful. I was having a little lesson yesterday to Captain James. It was very, very nice indeed. And how can we get in touch with you? What's your blog? My blog is called More Than Toast. Why? Because I started it as a recipe blog when I first had the kids, and I got frustrated that I was only ever eating toast for every meal. So I called it More Than Toast and it's just stuck. But it's more than toast. I am also, I think, the only Alice Judge Talbot on the Internet. So if you Google me, it's me Everywhere, or I'm AliceJT on all social media platforms. And I particularly like how open and honest you've been today, not only in your book, but with us and about your life. I mean, did you have to get permission off your husband or ex husband to write the book? Because. No, he's ever so good. He was ever so good with it. He was the only person in it whose name I didn't change. Okay. And I. You know, I don't think it was his favorite thing that I was writing a book about our experiences, because, of course, it's his shared experience. But that's why he was the first person I thanked in the acknowledgments. And he came to my book launch party, and I think he is quite proud. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I'm very, very grateful to him always that he's been so laid back with me to doing all these. All these things and sharing so much of our life. He doesn't enjoy me so much. Sharing the kids now, they're a bit older, but I totally get that. And I'm more on board with that now. And you can start to, as they get older, start to siphon that bit out. Because the important thing is what you're actually teaching mums now about themselves and this resilience. Exactly. That I think really did strike a chord with me, that, yes, we do have this resilience and don't give up so easily, you know, Find your strength. And not saying, be Wonder Woman, are you? No. God, no. I mean, we're human, not superhuman. Yeah. But I think it's important to say, I mean, you just mentioned moving the kids away from what I do. And I think that's one thing we don't naturally do as mums when we have kids. That's our life. We have kids. But I'm trying to make my life now. You know, the kids are a big part of it, but I'm the biggest part of it. And I think we all need to do that sometimes to just go, actually, I need to find the me. I need to find the strength within me before I can be everything that I need to be to everyone else in my life, including the kids. I have a question for you. Yeah. How would you like to do a live Q and A session here on women's radio station? It's part of Mother's Hour. Yeah. And we'll invite everyone to come in and ask some questions. Yeah. And maybe get involved in the show. Maybe some people who've been through a bit of trauma or a bit of a peak tongue in their life and perhaps they want to share their story, their plan B. Yes, that'd be lovely. Would you be up for that? Yeah, let's do it. That'd be absolutely fantastic. Don't forget, you can email me carolynsradiostation.com if you want to get in contact with Alice. It's Alice Judge Talbot. The book is fantastic. If you read nothing else this week, that's the book. It's the backup plan. And I will be back with you next week for another Mother's hour special. As we're approaching the summer holidays, we're gonna do a show on parenting again. If you have anything you want to talk about in that show, do email me Caroline's radio station dot com. Alice, can you just give us your website again? Morethantoast.org okay, see you soon. Welcome to the women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start. @empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hello, my name is Natasha Ann Kelleher. Welcome to you lovely lady listeners of your very own women's radio station. Over the coming months, I'll be doing a survey in big brand coffee shops, interviewing customers asking why they like to drink coffee and if they would like to give us a health tip for our listeners. The most shared and liked post will be the winner of a prize. Stay tuned for further details. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on women's radio station. It's Mother's Hour. If like me, you're a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them. This is definitely the show for you. We'll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together. With spoons, handfuls of advice, incredible stories. It will be refreshing, honest and funny. Look at being a mum Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity, helping people struggling to make ends meet. 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