Radical Well-being – Does Your Man Need Therapy

Hello, guys. Welcome to the Radical Wellbeing show on Women's Radio station. My name is, of course, Ingrid Marsh, and we're here at our delightful studios in Covent Garden supporting women's wellbeing. As you know, on the Radical Wellbeing Show, I usually, and I'm sick of the word usually in there today, and you'll know why in a minute, but I usually bring you ordinary women like me and you, who are sharing their unique stories. Women who refuse to be defined by their pains, by stimulus, stigma, or by stereotypes and are instead taken back their power. But to do so, they've had to overcome huge obstacles in their lives to be where they are today and together. Our mission is a simple one, and that is to inspire you to overcome life challenges, too. To don your wings, my lovely, to kick away the roadblocks and to live your life to the fullest. As always, I'm happy for you to connect, engage with us via our email address@presentersomensradiostation.com and this. This week's show is an interesting one. Interesting for more than one reason. I'm asking the question, does your man need therapy? That's the question. And here's the shock today, guys. I actually have a man in the studio helping me to answer that question. I'm going to tell you about Mike in a second, but I'm asking this question for a good reason. Does your man need therapy? Because we're approaching Christmas, and what a lot of people don't know is that come the new year, January is actually a really busy time for divorce lawyers, which kind of says to me, is it that we're. Oh, and the other thing is around that time as well, it's generally the women who instigate the divorce more than men. So women push for the marriage in the first instance, usually, but when it comes to divorce, statistically, they want it more. Makes me think, why is that? So the reason I'm, like I said, I'm doing the show. Does your man need therapy? Kind of see, like, can we hold it together? Because at the moment it says that we're holding it together just for Christmas, and then we're going to divorce courts or the solicitors in January. But can we keep these relationships together? Can we get. Keep the relationship together through your man maybe getting some therapy? Maybe need some therapy. And the reason why I want to touch on the whole therapy thing for men, because they're less likely to go for therapy. You know, it's kind of seen as, like, when you say the word therapy, they say, oh no, it's like a wussy thing to do. It's not a cool thing to do. And I'm also asking the question, why is it so difficult for them to go to the couch now to a gentleman by the name of Ronald Levant. He's the former head of the American Psychological association and professor of the University of Akron. He spent years researching men's mental health and said that basically when psychotherapy was created, it was designed for the comfort and the benefit of men who felt that women needed treating. Can you believe that? Yep. Yeah, they created this to treat us. And here's the thing, men are actually three times more likely or three to commit suicide three times at the rate of women. So this is something that we really need solving. So like I said, helping with this topic today is a man, a very wonderful man by the name of Mike Milligan. Dalligan. Dalligan. Sorry, I do apologize. I'm croaking. I'm so rubbish at surnames. Anyone listens to the show often will know that I always get them wrong. So I'm speaking to Mike Dallagan is an author and a speak, a speaker, an award winning charity director and is also known as the accidental role model. And basically Mike, after a number of difficult relationships, he sought therapy and as a result is now happily married to a wonderful lady called Gaynor. So, Mike, thank you so much for joining us. I've actually got you over two weeks, haven't I Mike? Let me just mention that quickly. I've got Mike over two weeks. That's because I'm gonna in. This show covers Mike's earlov about the whole thing that led up to therapy and all the rest of it. And he's also a real badass mindset person, do you know what I mean? And next week my show is called Age is just a Mindset and he just kind of fitted in both and I thought I'm not gonna have him for one when he can help us, he can help empower us over two topics. So we've got him for two weeks. Mike. I'm really pleased about that. Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, thank you. I mean we've met any recently, Mike, but we'll tell people about that in a minute. So Mike, I just want to go back. There's another part of your story which I'm going to cover next week. I'm going to touch on next week. So I really want to focus on this area for this particular, if it's okay with you. I just want to go back to the beginning and from what I understand, you lost your mother at age five, is that right? 72 years ago today. Oh, really? Yes. Isn't that wonderful? I hope she's looking down and I'm. Yes, I was five. She'd been ill the whole of her life. What was wrong with her? Well, as a child, she'd had scarlet fever. Right. Which gives you a dicky heart. And her eldest sister died exactly the same age of exactly the same thing. And so she, you know, I was born during the war and so I'll just. I can hear this tap. I'll make sure it's not coming through or not. Yeah. So. Yeah. So I was born, they got married during the wartime, my mother and father, and he then went away in the war. Kate got a quick leave and I was the result, but she'd always been ill and she died when I was five, 1947. And my father came home for the funeral, went straight back and three months later was remarried. Within three months. Within three months. And, in fact, I found out afterwards that he'd written to her asking for a divorce. And years later, 20 years later, I met her oldest sister and she said, your mum gave up. She didn't wash. She didn't wash, she didn't comb her hair, she just gave up. Oh, really? And so I was taken round to live with my dad's eldest sister. How old were you then? I was five. Yeah. Just after she died, you got. That was. Yeah, about two days later. Oh, right. I'm with you. And Ada. Everybody went to Aunt Ada, but I was taken to a side of the family, his side of the family, and didn't know, and unfortunately, that her husband was, shall we say, he was fairly. He believed in that. Sparing the rod, spoilt the child. Right. So there was. Yeah, it wasn't good. So you were beaten a lot? Yeah, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. And I have no memory of being beaten, but I have memory, very clear memory of something happening. And then, like shutters coming down in my head. And it was years later when I had those memories and my aunt said to me, well, you were beaten. That's what happened. And anyway, when I was nine, another aunt and uncle, it'd been a particularly bad beating, I understand, and another uncle Bill came with, another uncle came around and they took me away that evening. Was that because the beating that you threw? Yeah, yeah, it was just not good. So they took me away that evening and then I went. So I lived with them for five years and was that happier? Were you happier there? Do you remember? They were magic. They were magic. Oh, really? They were magic. It took me 30 years before, and now I can acknowledge how I felt about them. They were just different. And then. So there was nothing from my dad? No letter, no nothing. And then nearly, what, nine years later, there was a letter turned up. They tried to adopt me, and he'd not acknowledged their letter. And then he wrote to them and said, I'm back in England, my new family. I want Michael to come and live with us. So I was 14. And I remember leaving that day and just saying to Aunt Dora, I've made a most awful mistake. I don't want to go. I can't go. And I couldn't. I couldn't pluck up courage to say, you know, everything had been arranged. And she told me years later, all I wanted you to say, Mike, was, I don't want to go, and we wouldn't have let you go. And did you tell her? Did you literally say, I don't want to go, and then they stopped you from going, did they? No, no, I didn't tell her. I just. I didn't have the nerve to. Anyway, they were lovely with Dorian Abil. They were always there for me. But that six months, which I thought, you know, my dad. God, this is. Was awful. Okay, but before I talk about that, Mike and I do want to talk about that was like. But I know also that you were having dreams about your mother in the coffin at some stage as well. Tell me a bit about that. Yeah, well, it came up in therapy. You know, I went into therapy when I was about 44. It was then that it came up. Yeah, but. But. But I'd had the dream I'd always had. What was that dream about? Can you explain it to me? Well, it was. I would get this feeling I would have a flashback in my head. Wasn't a dream so much as a flashback in my head. And there's a particular whale that eats krill by swallowing, and then it pushes the water out through its teeth, and its teeth are like curtains, like long curtains, brown curtains. And I used to. I called it the baleen whale's teeth. That's what I used to get in my head. And it made me cold. I mean, really made me very, very scared. And it was horrible. And it couldn't, you know, just. And then one day when I was doing therapy, I remember Dan was. I was talking to Dan, and I remember saying, jesus Christ, Dan. I said, it's the whale's teeth. It's not the whale's teeth, it's the coffin. And he said, I don't know what you're talking about, Mike, but you know, back, back. And I said, the coffin? He said, what is the coffin? I said, the whale's teeth. He said, I'm none the wiser. And then I explained that it was the stitching around the edge of the coffin. And I'd been taken to say goodbye to my mum and give her a kiss as she lands because they did lay them out in those days in the front room. And there she was laid out. And just. If you can just very quickly answer the question, we'll talk about a bit more after the break. So you then moved in with your dad at age 14, just coming up. 15. Yeah. And you had a huge magnitude dream as to how wonderful it would be and it wasn't. No, it wasn't. It was. He was. I mean he was a lovely man in his own way, but I was just baggage really. And they didn't. And I talked like I think and I fought. And he was a major in the army by that time, you know, and didn't want. I don't know why he ever asked me to go there in the first place. Cause it was. And then at the end of that seven or eight months, he signed me up in the army for 12 years. All right, let's talk a bit more about that. You listen to Ingrid Marsh, women's radio station from our studio at Covent Garden supporting women's wellbeing. I'm speaking with the authority speaker and award winning charity director Mike Dalligan, also known as the accidental role model, who after a number of difficult relationships, Mike sought therapy and as a result is now happily married. So today we're asking the question, does your man need therapy? We're bearing in mind that men generally don't want to go. They don't like the word therapy. I understand. So how can we get them there? How can we help them? Why am I bothered about this? Because they are three times more likely than women or they commit suicide three times as the rate of women. I know we come to Christmas, I know the new year comes in and this is when we're heading for those divorce courts. So I'm doing my bit. I'm trying to rescue some of these marriages. Just unlike me. Is it? I'm changing. I think so, yeah. I want to try my school, some of these marriages. Not at the risk of your mental health mind, you know, self love. For me this is called the radical self love. Show that always comes first. But you know, if we can help, then we've got to do our bit. I have a son too, so do stay listening. We've got more coming up after the break. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show From Tummy to Mummy here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything, fertility, pregnancy, birth and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. My name is Ingrid Marsh and I host the Radical Wellbeing show supporting women's well being. On my show I bring you ordinary women like me and you, who are sharing their unique stories. Women who have refused to be defined by their pains, to be silenced by stigma or crushed by stereotypes, and who are taking back their power. And together, our mission is a simple one and that's to inspire you to kick away the roadblocks too. To don your wings and be the person that you were born to be. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover and mental health advocate and you can listen to my show get booked here at Women's Radio station daily at 5am and 5pm throughout my shows we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch@presenterswomensradiostation.com join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring and empowering? At Nurturing Birth, we offer approved doula training courses across the uk which are facilitated by an award winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer. Explore the doula role and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more@nurturingbirth.co.uk. You're listening to women's radio station supporting women's well being. Women's radio stations creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter Women's radio station, that's women's radio stn or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back guys. Listen to Ingrid Marsh at women's radio station supporting women's wellbeing in the studio with me today. I have the wonderful. And he's such a relaxed, got really relaxing vibe, isn't it? Really lovely vibe. I'm speaking with the author, speaker and award winning charity director, Mike Dalligan. He's also known as the accidental role model. We'll have to ask him about that in a minute, how he got that name. Who after many difficult relationships he went out and sought therapy and as a result has now been happily married. So the show this week is called does your man need therapy? Mike, thank you so much for joining us. So we just, we're at the point now where he was at your dad's. You realized that you weren't very happy there. You felt surplus to requirements and then you went into the army. Now I'm going to cover a lot about your army life next week. I know you've done some terrific things there. You went there age 15, had some big old responsibilities. Gosh, at age 15 to be in the army nowadays that would be c. That would. I couldn't send my 15 year old boy. Child abuse. Yeah, I mean it's crazy. I mean there's nobody sending my 15 year old boy anywhere. What was that like? I think it was my dad's response. He put himself into this situation where I was there with this whole new world, you know, I mean, I mean I remember going down the breakfast the first morning and when I got down I was dressed and he said, mike, get down quicker and just put your dressing gown on and we just have our breakfast. I said, I haven't got a dressing gown. It was that different. So he signed me up in the army unfortunately. And so I spent three years in it in Harrogate as an army apprentice school there. I didn't take to army life at all really. And I married my first serious girlfriend when I left there at 19. That was quite young and all I wanted was A family around me. I realize that now. So that's what I did. Interesting. And the army was. I spent five years in Germany, including. And as I say, my claim to fame is that I was actually marking up the war room map during the Cuban Missile Crisis. That's right. I read about. And I think back, and that. That was. That was. You know, there are a few. Just a few times mostly in life, you get on with it, don't you? But that was. That was different. That was very scary. And being told, you know, you need to get. Have you talked to your wife? This guy said. And I said, no. He said, you need to talk to her tonight. Did you talk to your wife? About what, Mike? Sorry? About the Cuban Missile Crisis. Did you talk? Have you. He said to me, have you talked to your wife? And I said, no. And he said, you need to tonight. Just tell her what you think of her. Just tell her that. Okay. And I remember thinking, so your life was at risk, basically. It was nearly World War iii. Yeah, it really was nearly World War Three. If the Russians hadn't turned back, you know, it would have gone off. And so. And then I came to London. I got pushed to the Ministry of Defense. And were you still with your wife then? I was still with my wife. And. And I did the whole 12 years, three years as a boy soldier and nine years in the army. But I was lucky enough to get to London posting. And when I was there, I went to Brixton School of Building to study one day a week, which led me into architecture because I trained in the army as a draftsman and then came out of the army in 1969 and then worked as an architect in various architects offices. Cool. So tell us about your relationship with your first wife. We were just. We were children. We were 19 when we. When we met and we had very little in common, to be honest. And that became very obvious fairly quickly. And we managed. We had two children. Which you did in those days. And we both committed to a marriage. So as far as we were both concerned, we had children, we stayed married. And so we did. We were married for, I think, nearly 15 years. Oh, quite a long time. Oh, yeah. So then you divorced and you were with the. You had custody of the two children. Was that quite rare back then? Pretty rare, I think. So how did that come about? How come you had them and not your wife, which is the stereotype? Yeah, well, Margaret had met someone else and he lived in a very small flat. And she said, look, I have the chance to be with someone I want to be with, but I have no way of taking the children. So you have the house, you have the children, and I'll just go and bless her. She did. And how did the children feel about that at the time? It was all a blur, really. It's difficult to say. They were obviously devastated at their mum leaving, but for me, they'd always been my children almost, and that sounds unfair, but they had and I realized that they were. The important part of the marriage to me was the children. So being a single parent with my children gave me, in a funny sort of way, everything I'd ever wanted. Oh, that's really nice. And we still were, you know, we still got our house on fire. Cool. And then I understand you then moved into a very run down terrace house in Yorkshire with the two children. Yeah, we moved to. We moved to Yorkshire because I wanted to go back to college to become a full time student. And so we moved up to Harrogate, next door to where my wife's family lived. So I thought, you know, I could be a student and then be someone around for the kids. But it was, it was pretty, it was pretty derelict. There was no hot water and no proper heating, so that had to be renovated. But straight away the doors opened for me because I can remember being in an architect's office when I'd left the army and looking up and thinking after about three weeks thinking, is this it? This is boring. The illusion again, is it? Illusion of being with the dad. Illusion of being the architect. The illusions, these pretty pictures of so many things. And I remember looking up and there was a set doors in front of me. And the other. Honestly, this is true. And the other side of the doors were all these people doing what I wanted to do, but all the doors were locked. And the divorce was the key that opened the doors for me. Which is why the autobiography is called the Other side of the Doors. Explain that to me again when you say the key opened the door for you. Well, there were doors, I saw in my head, this picture of doors, and behind them I was one side, and behind them all these people doing the sort of things that people were doing in the 60s and I wasn't. Yeah, okay. And the doors were all locked. But the key to me, to opening that door, to let me be what I wanted to be, was the divorce. Was the divorce. See, sometimes these things people get so afraid of and it's a thing that can just catapult you to where you want to be. Well, it did. And I realized I'm Very good. If you put me like when I was five and then when I was 15 with my dad and then when I was in the army, if you put me in a situation where I have to get myself out of it and make it work, I will do that. I will make it work somehow. Yeah. We're going to talk more, more about the whole mindset thing. Yeah. Next week. So as to how you do that better, Mike, just tell me more then. See, you were having a series of pretty disastrous relationships. Tell me a bit about that. Well, when, when Margaret left, it didn't take me long to. To. To discover sex. To be honest, I could be blunt about that. It didn't. And I did all the things I should have done when I was 18, which I'd never done. And how old are you then now? 30. I was 34 then. Right. And. And so I had a couple of relationships very short term and then I moved from London. That's when I went back to Harrogate, up to Harrogate to study and I had a series of relationships in Harrogate. They were all short term. And again, you know, this is something you did. I discovered in therapy. I was happy. I was happy in being unhappy. I was used to unhappiness, so unhappiness was the norm. What I couldn't cope with was being happy and knowing that sooner or later it was going to end because all relationships do. I would get myself into the unhappiness because I could cope with unhappy. Oh, crikey. Because I have heard people say, I was talking about this the other day, you could become comfortable with being uncomfortable. Oh, yeah. So I was used to being unhappy. And then you were afraid of being happy in case you. It was best not to be really, because it wasn't good. But the problem with that is I made them short term relationships where maybe they wouldn't be have been really. He just didn't want it to get into that stage of happiness to be disappointed again. Yeah. Oh, that's so sad. Do you remember that lovely John Cleese film clockwise, where someone says it's really disappointing and he said, no, it's the hope that gets to you. I hope. I can't cope with it. There's a lot of truth in there. Oh, no, that's. So as I just like thrive on having joy in my heart. Oh, I'm different now. Yeah. Yes, of course, I'm aware of that. So then you had a breakdown and. Or depression followed and then a breakdown. I'd had to come about Situation, depression, couple of days. And then I was with someone, Jude and I lived together for about five years and then that went belly up and I. I just hit a wall. I really, you know, and as I. My kids looked after me for three weeks. I was off work for about six or seven, six weeks or so. When you hit wall, would you? And how. Describe that? What was that show up? I just. I couldn't get up. Couldn't get up in the morning. I was shaking all the time, you know, I remember just shaking most of the time. I didn't eat for about a month. Really. Literally three and a half weeks I didn't eat. And I tried afterwards, writing it all down to try and get some semblance in my head of what it had been like. And this two and a half weeks, which. A complete blank, no memory. So the kids looked after me and I just laid on the sofa for about a month or more. And I was on antidepressants and I was on sleeping tablets and I'm not keen on tablets, so as soon as I could, you know, there certainly wasn't going to get locked into those. And after about a month it got, you know, I remember getting a bit better and then. And I had one particular night where I couldn't sleep and I took two sleeping tablets and an hour later I still couldn't sleep. And in the end, I think I'd taken about six or seven sleeping tablets and I still laid awake all night. It was as if I had this band in my head, you know, like a band wrapped around my head. And the following morning I woke up feeling as if the world had changed. And when you say the world had changed, like what had changed? Like for the better. Oh, really? It was like a fever breaking almost. Yeah. And I was staying with friends in London. I went back to Harrogate and I thought, okay, you know, I've got to get on with it. So is this when you went into therapy? I went into therapy about a year later. About a year later. Okay, so we want to talk about that. The whole therapy side of things, that was what got me into going through that. Made me think, I've got. This has got to stop. Right? Got to stop. What has got to stop? This being silly in relationships and making them fail and doing all the daft things I did. You're awesome, Mike. You're listening to Ingrid Marsh at women's radio station. This is the Radical Wellbeing Show. I'm in the studio with the wonderful Mike Dalligan. Just being completely honest and open with us. And we all know about the depression thing, or many of us do. Won't know about the whole time depression thing, being tied to a sofa and can't move. I've had those feelings myself. And he shams us his story, how he was just in these disaster relationships afraid of being happy because no, he was going to be unhappy again. So this week's show we're talking about does your man need therapy? And it's a big old deal because it's a word that they just don't like to hear. And I want to bring a change to that, especially because we're coming up to Christmas and we're coming up to the new year. Immediately after Christmas, the divorce lawyers get quite busy. So, you know, let's see if there's something we can do to create a much more happier home. Happy for you to engage with us here. It's presenters@womensradiostation.com Like I said, I'm hearing my dad again. And if you need help, I'm going to, you know, do stay with us. There is lots and lots and lots of, lots of support and help out there. I'm going to be sharing some of those with you throughout the show. So do stay listening. And it may not be your partner, it may not be your boyfriend or your husband. It might be your spouse, son. You know, I'm really concerned the situation. 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For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com women's radio station supporting Women's well being hi guys, welcome back. Ingrid Marsh here, the Radical Wellbeing Show. This week's show is simply called does yous Man Need Therapy? And I've got the wonderful Mike Dalligan in the studio with me today. Today we've gone through a lot of his previous life and we're going to that stage now. We'll just find a bit more about how we actually end up in therapy just to cover a few stats. Stats in the UK in 2018 there were 6507 deaths by suicide. This is by men. Rather sorry. Rates vary across the UK, with the highest rate in 2018 observed in northern Ireland, followed by Scotland and then Wales in England. So apologies, that is suicide deaths overall, crikey, six and a half thousand. But overall men accounted for three quarters of the UK deaths by suicide in 2018. Three quarters. That's a mighty big figure. If you are worried nonetheless about somebody else. You know, there is so much help out there. There's organization out there, a fabulous one called Rethink and that really gives you great advice on how to support, support someone who is having suicidal thoughts. Let's remember that a lot of these thoughts start off as depression and then do end up into suicidal thoughts, especially for men. There's also a wonderful organization called CALM that stands for Campaign Against Living Miserably. Their number is 08585858 and they're open from 5pm till midnight every single day. Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Oh, crikey. So you end up. How did you end up in therapy? Did you think about it? Someone said suggest it to you. What was the, what happened? I was, I was living with someone at the time and there was a bit of an age gap between us. What was the age gap? About 14 years. Who was the older one? I was older, yeah. And I think she felt that more than I did. And one day she was going out with some fellow students. She was, she was just university lecturer and she was going out or college lecturer and she was going out with some students. And it was very obvious I wasn't invited. And I can remember, I just, it wasn't me almost. I mean, this person came out wild. I mean, just the words that came out, I mean, I usually swear anyway, but the words that came out and the way I was, it was like violent for about two or three minutes. And in the end she drove off and then when she came home she said, you know, we went to bed and the following morning she said, I feel like I've been beaten. I feel like I've been beaten, Mike. And I said, and I remember thinking, that's it. This, this really has got to stop. This is just not the way to behave. And so I went to see someone and then sooner after I moved, that was just a one off. Someone like who? I went to see a hypnotherapist actually, who took me back to those times when my mama died. And so I then moved to London for another job and we separated then within, I think we moved to London and our relationship lasted about a month after moving to London. And so that's it, here we go. I've got the chance. I'm on my own. There's nobody else to deal with anymore. And I just got in touch with the tavishop center and they fixed me up with meeting someone to talk about therapy. She was a therapist and she said to me it wouldn't work. You need. Part of your problem is men, not women. So I think you'd be better off with a male therapist and that way. I met a guy called Dan Toomey, and Dan was another. He was an Aunt Dorian and Uncle Bill rolled into one. He was Dan. I have great, deep affection for Dan and he helped me turn my life around. And I was in therapy with him before he died for about 13 years and overall about 18 years in therapy over a period of about 25 years. And it's changed me, irrespective of what it's done in terms of my relationship. I just feel comfortable with being me. I just feel very at ease with me. I'm still an angry bugger, you know, still angry at the world and things. But underneath, I'm so much easier as a person, and other people notice that. Easier. And all my relationships are different. Oh, wow. Tell us about some of those sessions. What some of the things he would go through. You mentioned that he took you right back to the beginning, the death of your mum. Well, it. I'll give this away because it's in the book, but the first mentioned that book, by the way. Let's talk about that. So this is your autobiography, isn't it? So this is the Other side of the Doors, Available on Amazon. Available on Amazon. It's fantastic. And that's by Mike Dalligan. Yeah, and it's all in here, but yes, tell us about it. Yeah, well, the first session we said Dan was very traditional. You laid on the couch and he was at the head of the couch. I mean, I've had therapies. No, he was very. And. And actually that worked because not seeing him, if he'd have been sat like this, I wouldn't have been able to do it. Okay. So him being there. And so he said, okay. I said, well, what do we do? He said, we just talk. I said, what am I going to talk about? And he said, anything you want to. Anything. So I said, okay, okay. And then I can remember saying, telling him, I said, okay, my worst. This was my worst secret. And I said, told him my worst secret. And he said, mike, he said, I think you'll find that most human beings do that. Are you allowed to share it with us, what that secret was? Yeah, I just said, dan, I masturbate and he said, mike, I think most people do that. Oh, bless you. And the fact that he made it perfectly normal and I thought, okay, I could talk about anything. And I suddenly thought, oh, maybe it isn't abnormal then maybe I'm not. And I don't think it ever looked back with Dan. I mean, we went through things and we would talk and he would. He was very good. He was completely non judgmental and he used to drive me mascot. I say to him, dan, but what do you think about this? And he used to say, no, I'm not here to think about this. I'm here to help you. So when I'd say something, he would say something in response, like, it sounds like you're not happy today, Mike. It sounds like you're not happy. Is there a reason for that? And that process of me identifying everything, the whale's teeth being the most extreme example, helped me because if he'd have said to me, this is what your problem is, Mike. You like, typical male. I'd have said, no, it's not my problem at all. But he allowed me to work it through with him. And over a long period, very gradually, very gradually, I just realized that. I mean, the first thing was in my relationships, I realized in my relationships that I met someone, went to bed with them and the following morning woke up and thought, oh, I'm in love now. I've got to get. I've got to settle down. I did that. It was as silly as that. The other thing that was crucial was, and I know this sounds crazy, it really does sound crazy. I can acknowledge that now there'd never been a mother. When I left to go to live with Dorian Adrian Bill, she was never mentioned again. I didn't get a picture of her until I was nearly 25. So literally, there had never been a mother. What I thought there'd been, I don't know. But there had never actually been anybody called my mum talking to him one day. And then, you know, the tears just flooded out. And he said. And I said, what's this? And he said, I think you find it's called grieving, Mike. So. And it was that help that I got from him and talking about the crying Mike. I remember as I was prepping this show, actually I was sitting down prepping it, and a song came on the radio and it was by the Cure. Men Don't Cry Boys Don't Cry do you know it? Boys Don't Cry Cry. My cousin's son is in the Cure. Yes, I understand, I understand. But the words boys don't cry. And this is the problem, isn't it? It's the stereotype again that men are not allowed to cry. And it goes back to those fairy tale stories which drives me insane. Not only do they impact women and saying that they've got to be pretty and pink and passive and man will come along and rescue you on the other side of that, which stops them from having a voice and expressing themselves and all the rest of it. Men are told that they must just be soldiers. They must. And they don't cry. So they have all this pent up emotion and not letting it out. I mean, what do you think about that? Did you. Were you want to cry often? Were you okay about crying? I'm not sure. The. The army, you didn't. I mean, 12 years in the army, you didn't because they would pick on your weakness. I mean that's like, you know, that sort of. It was a boarding school within the first three years. And so you would get picked on for whatever your weakness was. So certainly in the army you didn't show that side of you at all. I've been quite good at crying in private when I needed to. But basically you get on with it, don't you? I mean, life is there to get on with. There's a problem that's just not being let out. That vulnerability that it's not being. No, no. So you went to 13 years therapy and then you met the wife you're with? Yeah, I'd been on my own for about three or four years after I moved to London, because I moved to London to work for a charity and I got the sack within about 18 months. So there I was back on the drawing board again as an architect, something I hadn't done for 12 years. So I had two mortgages to pay. And then I met Gaynor, who I met with you. You did. She's different. She's got a lovely air about her actually. Oh, she's magic. And she. Hope she's not listening to this. And she, she's very determined. Gaynor. She made it very obvious that, you know, eventually she would at one stage like children. And every time she said to me, and I said, look, been there, done it, got the T shirt, don't want children. Not gonna happen. And after about four or five years, you know, she'd ask maybe, you know, after about two years she says, you haven't changed your mind, have you? And I said, no, I haven't. And after about four years, and then she asked me one day and I thought, I can't think of any good reason why I shouldn't be with this person. And we have a relationship. She's my best friend and I say to people, I go to bed every night with my best friend and I wake up in the morning, she's still there. I mean, you know, I couldn't imagine. And that's what therapy's done. I couldn't imagine that this was a relationship. I couldn't imagine that. And you're gonna be writing a book about therapy, aren't you? We'll talk about that as well. You'll listen to Ingrid Marsh. It's the radical wellbeing show. I'm in the studio of Mike Dalligan and he's just been so wonderful, so open, so vulnerable and sharing with us the story of his life before therapy, how it really did transform his life and bring about a much better relationship. And guys, I know they have guys to my shows too, because I'm out, they come up to me, they say a little word and so, you know, to you guys too, do you know what I mean? Like, you don't have to suffer. It's a load of nonsense as you've been that you've been fed a load of lies that you have been fed. It's fine to cry. It's fine to be vulnerable. I hear many women saying they felt their relationships have broken down because you couldn't be vulnerable. Well, you can. And this is what women, you know, gasping for. And there's women out there who you can trust. So please don't give up, guys. Do stay listening. There's more coming up. Welcome to women's radio station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of three and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show from tummy to Mummy here on women's radio station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything, fertility, pregnancy, birth and baby related right through to the menopause. And beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. My name is Ingrid Marsh and I host the Radical Wellbeing show supporting women's well being. 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Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring and empowering? At Nurturing Birth we offer approved doula training courses across the UK which are facilitated by an award winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more at nurturingbirth.co.uk. You're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradio Station, that's Women's Radio STN or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Welcome back guys. It's to Ingrid Marsh. It's the radical wellbeing show on Women's Radio station supporting women's well being. Helping me to support women's well being today is actually a man, Mike Dalligan. But as you know guys, I'm all about us bringing about a change. In fact, someone once said to me many years ago that you never know who your best advice will be coming from. Anyway, male be a man. Okay, so I speak to men all the time too. But yeah, we're talking about depression. Depression for men and Asking the question, you know, is your man, does your man rather need therapy? And what can we do to help? A lot of guys with depression do experience, go on to experiencing suicidal thoughts at some point in their lives. In fact, according to the World Health Organization, men account for three to four times number of suicides compared to women. And depression is one of the leading risk factors for suicide. I mentioned earlier that if you needed some help, there's organization called Calm Campaign Against Living Miserably. That's specifically for men. Or if somebody you want to have a chat with who you're worried about, call them at 8005858 58. And there's also an organization called Rethink. Mike, thank you so much for being with us. As I said earlier. So tell me, what do you suggest that to guys yourself? Why don't you have therapy? And if so, how do they react? I don't. I do and I don't. Or have you ever done that? Yeah, yeah. In the main, I've got some really good. I've got some really good friends, you know, and, and quite a few of them could well do with therapy. And I, I dropped the hint. I mean, I do say to them, have you thought about it? But in the main, no, you generally don't. No. And why do you think there is this war for guys to even think about it? Well, I didn't think about it Till I was 44, so, you know, I'd lived the life I lived for a long while before. With me, it was just that decision that you can't go on like this, not for you, but you became conscious of it. Some people that's the problem is that they're not even conscious that there's a problem. Well, I remember talking to someone once and telling me that a friend of theirs has sent both their children to a private school that was eight miles from home, a boarding school, but on the basis it never did them any harm. And my response was by definition you can't know what might have been in other circumstances. And I think I don't know what it is. There's a whole thing that's seen as weakness and it isn't. I mean, someone once said to me, your strength, Mike, is you don't mind acknowledging you're wrong. Mind you, there are people that would find that difficult to believe that I ever do that. But it's difficult to in a world where we have to strive and fight and where, you know, the market rules and all that sort of crap that we listen to it's difficult in a culture where it's male oriented to acknowledge that. I was interviewed once by a black organization. I was the only white interviewer. I sat at the table, there were six black people opposite me. And the guy smiled, the chairman smiled. He says, you know what it feels like now, don't you? And I said, yes, I do. I really do. I didn't get the job. Yeah, yeah, but it was that. So when you're in that culture, that white male dominated culture, it's very difficult, it's insidious, and it's much more difficult to break out of something that's insidious than something that's obvious. And part of that is not acknowledging you're wrong, not acknowledging you've made a mistake, not acknowledging you've got any weaknesses, the ego in the speaking profession, it's not acknowledging that you'll never be a success because if you acknowledge the fact you're not making much money, you're deemed not to be a good speaker because nobody employ you. Well, I know that's balls. So I don't work on that basis. Indeed. And it's weird, isn't it? Because for me personally, I'd rather, if I had to date, you know, one or two guys, I'd rather date a guy who's had therapy, the one who hasn't. At least it's dealing with the nonsense, isn't it? Because that's the thing. 90% of what we do is unconscious to us. And it's also what you do. It's partly. It's for you and me, it was for me. But it's the damage you do to other people. Quite. Yeah. For real. The damage you do to others in a relationship. The. And the long term damage. And the long term damage. Yeah. Because if you pass it on to your kids, they pass it on to their kids as well. That's right. If you don't think you need, you need to do it for you. Do it for your children. Do it for your kids. Exactly. Because they pass. They inherit it as well. Yes. A lot of these I know, say Narkson, for example, that they can't revert. It's quite hard to reverse the older they get for children. But. Yeah. Anyway, Mike, I need from you, my lovely, three radical well being tips for men. Or you can choose. I can make you choose. Give me three radical wellbeing tips or for women who might be in a situation with a guy. But you choose. I just need three. I think these are quite general, really. But one thing I Think is learn to be yourself and be happy in yourself. If you're not, then you need to do something about it. But the first thing is getting to be happy within yourself and be good in your skin. The other is care for other people. We live in a world where that isn't. So it's blow you, Jack and blow you, Jack is not the world I want to live in. I've been realising that more and more, how uncaring people can be. I lived through the 60s and the difference is marked, really. So you've seen a distinct difference from how people are now. Back to then, I think it was Joan Bakewell said, you know, the 60s was a golden age and we'll never see their like again. And she was. Was right. What do you think brought about that change very quickly? 1979 and Mrs. Thatcher coming into power changed everything and we haven't looked back. And number three. And number three is. I know this sounds like a cliche, but for God's sake, be. Don't dream about change, be it yourself. And then you changing will change other things. So be, you know, oh, I'd like to do that. Well, bloody give it a try, give it a go. But we're going to talk a lot about Mindset next week. That comes into that one, doesn't it? Yeah. And just to say, guys, that I actually met Mike when I was out running just the other day, a couple of days ago, and I was like, it's the first time I'd run for so long without stopping. So I think when he started hyperventilating and breathing down the park and we got chatted and what did you say to me? You said, oh, don't, don't give up, it'd be worth it in the end. Or something like that. Do you run to help with your depression as well? I started running when I was 40 because I thought, I've got it again. It's one of those things where if I don't, it'll be downhill. And now I'm not in therapy anymore, I found that running is wonderful because thoughts go on in my head and there was a time when I would take a notebook with me. Yeah. Oh, it's marvellous, isn't it, for that? And, you know, I'll be running along the can, I'm starting and what I call penny dropping moments. God, why didn't I think about that before? But, yeah, great for mental well being as well. Enormously. Yeah. Mike, please. I know you're back with us next week, but in the Meantime, if anybody wants to get in contact with you, how do they go about that? Well, you look on my website. Mikedaligan.com. yeah. Can you spell that for us? I've got M, I, K E M I, K E, D A L, I, G, a n, all lowercase.com. or email me mikedaliganmail.com Fabulous, Mike. You are superb. You are wonderful and such a beautiful aura and a beautiful air. Thank you so much for your vulnerability and for your strength and your courage and of course, looking forward to see Mike next week. So, just to wrap up, guys, of course we always end with my Ingrid said. So let's remember that if you are in that situation where you feel your partner does need psychotherapy or therapy of some sort, there is a wonderful site I found goodtherapy.org by Ronald Nathan. He was one who said that psychotherapy was created by men to help women. On his site, what he says is, is that it's to remember that men are often not comfortable with terms like therapy or psychotherapy and to instead use words like personal growth or things like, you know, why don't you go for consultation or go for counselor or coaching to get back on track. Or you can say things like, why don't you find a way to control your anger or learn some new skills that things like that often work. He also said that, you know, that it's not a marathon, all right? Oh, sorry, it's a marathon, rather not a sprint. So what you're doing at the beginning is just planting the seed and then you're nurturing it. And apparently he says that even though he could even say things like, you know, why don't you go and see your doctors? Because doctors know this, they know what's going on and they would think then refer them on to something else. And as I said, it's just planting seeds. He says. He then goes on to say that it does take an average about three months before he does eventually get a call. So don't give up hope, guys. He also goes on to say that if those. If those approaches fail and the pond becomes a more serious one and the doc's not working and it's getting quite bad, then you know, like, you've got to call the emergency services, my lovely. And there are those therapists who specialize in dealing with men. It's what Mike had. He had. He actually had a man who was helping him out. And I also want to say, as well, my lovelies, is for those who are religious, I know some aren't, some are that don't forget the power of prayer. You know, that's what I've said to my son in the past. I said, oh, what a kaze if I said to go and pray. So I think, are you all right, mum? And I said, you know, why don't you just go into a quiet place and. And reflect for a while or something like that. But maybe prayer or some kind of spiritual practice of some form. There's some great advice from the Hardy Street Therapy. And they said also to watch your words. Don't do. I've done the past. They're like, you need therapy. This is just that you don't do that. And then, because that can sound a big bit judgmental. But once again, they say to concentrate more on the behavior. So you say things like, say things like, you know, don't say things like. They say, oh, we're worried about you. But you can say things like, I notice that you're not going to the gym anymore, you're not playing your guitar anymore, you're not sleep at night. So focus on the behavior itself. So that's really great advice there. And I want to say as well, guys, to remember that is it that he needs therapy or is it that you both need perhaps some couples therapy? It could be that. And I also want to point out, of course, it's called the Radical Self Love and Radical Self Love show. And I'm pointing this point out because I was in this situation where I was with a partner who I loved dearly, who became very, very, very, very ill. And I realized that my own self care started falling down the pattern. It actually took somebody from the outside to look at me and was like, Ingrid, what's going on, love? And I was like, crikey, I'm breaking down with this too. So I say all that to say you must look after yourself during times like this, that you've got to look after yourself first goes back to that saying, doesn't it? That you've got to put the. Put the mask on yourself first. Ultimately, however, my darlings, we also have to remember that we can't change another person. You can only change yourself. And it may well be this is something you've been dealing with for a long time. And it may well be that you have to remember that, you know, you may have to get out. It might have to be a relationship that you have to get out of. I myself been in a relationship where person had issues and you stay in there and all the rest of it just ends up bringing you down where you just have to get that head out and then you realize how wonderful your life can be there after. But only you can decide those things. Listen to Ingrid Marsh. This was the radical wellbeing show. Massive. Big thank you to you again, Mike. Thank you so very much. Look forward to seeing you next week. Week we've got, like I said, next week's show is called Age is a Mindset. Age is nothing but a mindset. You know, this is a big area for me. I'm always talking about it. Remember to log on to our website, send some luscious emails, my darlings, and most of all, remember, you are enough. See you next week. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station. Supporting Women's well being Women's Radio Station is all about diversity from opinion, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. 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