Trending With Dr. Pam Spurr – Ben Ofoedu, Anne – Marie And Robert, Sam Tomlin

Hello and welcome. I'm Dr. Pam Spurr. You're here with me every fortnight for trending with Dr. Pam on the men's station, live streaming right now and then repeated as a full on radio show on both the men's and the women's stations. Now I have a raging cold, so let's hope I can get through this show without losing my voice. I want to remind you that on all social media you can follow both the men's and, and the radio stations. Now what do we do every fortnight? We take the trending topics from social media and we look at them from our perspective. The celebrities and politicians may set the trends, but how do they affect our lives? So that will be, I'll be discussing that with my first guest who will be joining me in a moment. Now, he is blessed with a gorgeous voice and as the lead singer of Fats and Small, smashed into the 90s music scene with hits like Turnaround, he also has acting and panto credits to his name and it's no surprise because he has such a big stage presence. Now you can find him on social media, Big Benafoidu and that's on Twitter and on Instagram. And I'm delighted that Ben will be joining me now. Hello. Hey. How are you? I'm really well. Just trying to get, try. I'm looking in this camera. I'm just trying to get the framing right, you know, so you can see my whole head and my head doesn't get, you know, chopped up. You look beautifully framed. And I was just gonna say I'm really well apart from a cold, but at least we're not in the same room so I can't give it to you. So how are you keeping? Well, you've got such a lovely voice so it really works. Your voice is so nice and so soothing that even with the cold it's, I could listen to it all day. So, you know, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. How am I keeping? Yeah, I'm keeping well, Keeping very, very well. You know, I've had my first vaccine and I feel so much better and you know, just more, much more confident about everything and you know, things are really opening up and stuff like that. So. Yeah, no, I'm good. I'm due to get my second one, you know, pretty soon. So. Yeah, man, I'm, I'm, I'm happy for me, that's good. You know, my family who are, who haven't taken it, but I've got mine and I'm happy. So, yeah. Oh, wow. Yes. Because it has been a big thing within families, some people not wanting the vaccine and other family members saying, no, no, no, you need to get it. So I don't know how you're treating that in your family. Are you trying to encourage people who are saying no or really, really odd? You know, the virus has kind of like brought people together and divided them, but it's made everyone so absolute about certain things that some people, you know, it's not many people are not in the middle. I think in the middle. Some people just won't take it and some people just want it and. Yeah, I can't understand, you know, I've got brothers and sisters. We grew up the same, same, same mum and dad, you know, same ideologies around it, the dinner table and everything. And then, you know, we're all adults now and three of us are, six of us, and three of us won't take it and three of us have had it and can't wait for the second one. So second one couldn't come soon enough. So I feel the same way one of us was, you know. You know, I suppose I'm an entertainer and I've got to travel and I've got to move around and that is my job. And I can't imagine life without traveling, whether not even traveling abroad, just going, going anywhere because I need stages to sing and perform on and. And then one of us works for the footsie, you know, the Dow Jones Index and the Footsee. So he's traveling, he was working in the city and stuff like that. And another one of us is. It has her own NHS practice. So, you know, so obviously she's dealing with people all the time. She works for the nhs, so, you know, and then the others are just like, they're more technical, computer stuff, so they're not really going out that much. So maybe it's that. I don't know. I don't know. It's an interesting dilemma. Hey, families, you know, we always think just because we're born to the same parents, we'll think the same way. But that is the furthest from the truth, you know. Now I was going to ask, with you having the vaccine and you'll be getting your second one. I'm doing my second one probably about the third week of June. I'm looking forward to that. What are your plans? Are you going to be able to start planning gigs now or what's happening there? Yeah, I mean, as far as it's concerned, I mean, it's all down to the government. But it's looking like it's all going to open up. So that's really, really good. And we've got 15 shows that come straight in. As soon as they. They said it was opening up, you know, we had 15 offers and. And we took all the offers, really. I mean, you know, it's. It's really hard when you're a performer and you haven't got a stage to perform on. That's an absolute nightmare. And so we've just been waiting. We're longing to get out there. Our first gig with my new band, Boys on block, is on July 17 in the city in. On the Embankment. It's a. A gallery called. It's not even a gallery, it's just a building, a venue called Proud. So, yeah, we. It's a brunch we're doing. So, yeah, come along, everyone, if you're watching. If it's not sold out, I don't think. I think there's got. I think there's a couple of tickets left. Where do I get tickets in the afternoon? I want to see Boys on Block. Where are the tickets? How can I get them? I think they'll be on my side. What I'll do is I'll. I'll put a link on my social media and I'll keep the link up for. For the next couple of weeks. But I can't remember the promoter was saying that it might be sold out. I'm not sure. Always they were expecting to sell out in the next few days. But it's a great response. I think, for most people. There's been a great response because, you know, people want to get out and people want to live their lives again and go and see entertainment and be entertained. Everyone's just been indoors and people have been on the most part relatively, you know, good, you know, with no contact and stuff. And. And again, this come out as Virus has taught us that no, no man is an island or no man or woman is an island. You know, it's just we. We. We like each other. We. I think we like each other more than we thought we did. I do kind of miss each other. Well, we've just had Urban angel, which is really, really nice. I was gonna say Urban angel just joined. She says. This sounds amazing, Ben. Hope it goes well. I know she's based up in Scotland, but she's a fellow music lover. I'm sure she would come with me to the brunch in the city if she lived in London now. I wanted to you know what if there's not? We have. We. Sorry, sorry. We've got loads of gigs anyway this year, so come to any one of them. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. As long as they're kind of in the London area. Got gigs in Scotland. Really. Okay, well, I'm gonna have to fly those up to her. She won't get out of it. Now we, we were going to talk today before we hit things trending right now, we were going to talk about age gap relationships because my first marriage was an age gap relationship. He was 18 years older than I am. I was nearer in age to my stepchildren and so there was a kind of unusual dynamic. But you're in an age gap relationship now. So tell me what the positives have been for you over the years with, with the lovely Vanessa. I think that I got into an age gap relationship was. I felt that after my last relationship I felt I was led a bit of a merry dance and I felt that the, the, the person wasn't. My last relationship was the. My girlfriend wasn't bad by any means, but she, she was just a bit younger. So things change. And the same person I started dating wasn't the person that I ended up dating in the end completely. And it happened to me before her as well. And I remember saying to myself, you know, the next time I meet some, someone, they've got to kind of be that person. They've got to kind of know what they want, know where they're going or, or know what they want to achieve or have, have achieved, you know, and I just like stability. I'm quite a rock and quite a loyal sort of person. Like a friendly sort of person. You know, if I'm with you and you're my friend or you're, you know, it's, we're friends for life. Like, I don't really do, you know, fair weather friends and stuff like that and, and, and fair weather relationships. Most of my relationships have been quite long because I'm just not. Yeah, I'm not sort of the come and go type and you know, so Vanessa, what, what appealed to me about her wasn't the fact that she was older. She just happened to be older. But then I found that in older women, for me, they knew more about where they were going and what they were doing and they weren't about to change. So if she doesn't like something, she doesn't like it. She didn't like it 15, because I remember 15 years now. So she didn't like it 15 years ago and she's not going to like it now, so, you know, it doesn't change. And I like to. I knew where I was with her. The waters were calm and stable and I felt I'd been led a Mary dance. So that's the positives, you know, just for me, all I wanted was stability. I just didn't want any surprises. I didn't want anyone to sort of change their mind about the way they feel about things or what they're going to do or what they're not going to do. And I felt that, that confidence in old women, and maybe some women might say that in older men, I'm not sure, but I found it in an older woman. And you said you were 18 years apart in the first marriage? My dad and my mum were 18 years apart, so. Oh, really? Have they lasted? Because I actually divorced him. But, well, my dad and my mom. My dad, you know, died. So, yeah, just passed away of old age. But, yeah, no, they did, they did again, I think. But, you know, it's so men. Those days were very, very different and it was like a different sort of time. But, yeah, yeah, my mum was confident with my dad. I mean, they were back in Nigeria, but my dad had a house in the UK and she married him and then they. It was kind of happily ever after, really. And all of us were born. Six of us were born or seven, but one passed away again, but, yeah, six of us. So, yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. But what you say is interesting because it really reflects in my work with relationships. People in their 20s often think they've met the one, but then they both change so much in that decade that now, you know, they often end up breaking up. And for that very reason that they are different in their early 20s, they stay together and then they find they've just grown apart. And I think a lot of people reflect what you say when they tell me the positives of their age gap, relationship. And I know when I met my first husband, you know, I was 18, he was 36. And he seemed to know what it was all about and where he was going and all that stuff. You know, he was a very successful businessman. So maybe I changed more after we, you know, I had our son, then we eventually got married and. But. But also he had difficulties as a person. He was very jealous of me having younger friends. So I think sometimes the older person can feel very insecure if the younger person's getting out and about and still clubbing and all that kind of stuff and wanting to go to gigs and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so that was, that was a bad dynamic for us, but. No, I know the positives you're talking about are very, very true. What about with family? Because, see, my family at first was very rejecting of me being so young, getting serious with an older guy like that. How did your family take it? Were they cool with it? Yeah, I, I suppose exactly the same. I think that they were. They were a bit like, perplexed about it all and they didn't really understand and they, they couldn't really. Yeah, they just didn't really. Didn't really get it. Although, you know, there's only 10 years between me and Vanessa, so it's not like a huge gap and it's. It's not huge. No. And we. And my older sister is eight years older than me, so all the things that me and Vanessa would have in common, tv, wise old shows and stuff like that, I know of and was able to see and enjoy and watch because my older sister was watching them. So, you know, and in, in the household, like our household, you know, she was the oldest kid and whatever the oldest one wanted to watch, we all kind of had to watch, you know, it was that kind of thing. So. Yeah, so, so, so we, we. We've got a lot in common from the time period and stuff like that. So, you know, 10 years wasn't. What, wasn't that. That. That much? But I, I suppose people just thought, oh, wow, well, I wonder why he's doing that? Or they, they couldn't really understand it. But Vanessa was very, it was very natural to me, you know, I fell in love with her quite fast and she is exactly like the women I knew. She's a strong lady with. With strong opinions and doesn't mince her words. My mum didn't do that and my sisters don't miss their words and my auntie doesn't. And most of the women that I grew up around and who were role models to me as what a woman could be or should be like, were strong ladies. So when I met Vanessa, I just didn't even think she was a strong lady. I just was at home. I was like, oh, this is it, this is what I'm missing. This is. This is it. Yeah, this is. This is me right here. All right. Yeah, that's it. I got it kind of wrong before, you know, I love that. But then she just fitted in. Yeah, I love those thoughts because, you know, a lot of people say when it's within a decade, they do have those Same cultural references they do remember, like maybe older siblings, brothers, sisters watching the programs that their new partner watched. Those kind of cultural references are in a way strangely important. And also the fact that, that Vanessa reflected the women in your lives, you know, those strong kind of women, that's a positive for any relationship because so often we model art, we look for what we know and what we're comfortable with. So obviously Vanessa, you know, gave you that. And I wonder with reflecting the other way what you gave to Vanessa in the early days, besides being a really hot guy. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. You know what? I think that with Vanessa, she said I, I reminded her of her Uncle Willie. She had a uncle, Mum's dad. And he was a kind of really easy going, lovable, jokey, kind of, you know, sort of like. Yeah, almost like a, almost like a laugh a minute, just with silly jokes, not nothingness, you know, not like a, a massive of great jokes, just silly things, word playing, that kind of thing. And she said that the one thing about, you know, having a certain form of success and stuff like that is that it's lonely if people, you haven't got anyone to enjoy it with and people can't actually enjoy it because, you know, if you look at it, you know, if you've achieved something, then, you know, there's working hard and then there's celebrating what you've achieved and there's going to, you know, knowing that you're going out for a nice dinner or knowing that you've been invited here or there and these nice things, these are luxury things. And to have someone grumpy on your arm, you know, have a man that's on your arm that's grumpy. Which men can be grumpy for loads of reasons. And there are many men who, if they are with a successful woman, they feel like a bit of a manhood has been emasculated. Yeah, they feel emasculated, yes. And so I don't know about Vanessa's previous, but I can think that that would be, you know, one of the cases where me, I was just like, yo, this is great. This is amazing. Yeah, yeah, let's see, you know, let's have a good time. Let's do this. And one time, you know, we bumped into the Duke of Ed and we were on our first dates and it was just, it was. We just having a really funny time. We were at the charity. We didn't know why we were there or what we were doing. It was just fun. As long as she was there, I was happy. As long as I was there, she was happy. And that was it. And we thought we'd go along to this ball. We're wearing these earrings for boodles. And, like, we had, like about 60 or 70,000 pounds worth of jewelry on us, you know, modeling his jewelry and stuff. And we had to give it back at the end of the night. And the Chief of Ed was like. He came up to me and he's like, I hope you had protection. All right. Yeah. No, Duke of Edinburgh was there. Yeah, no, there was armed guards there because the Duke of Edwards there. And he came up to me and he was like, why are you here? And I was like, oh. And I didn't know. I just thought, oh, my gosh, you're the Duke of Edinburgh. I don't know why I'm here, because we were having this joke where we didn't know where we were, but we were there to have a good time and that was that. And then I said, oh, I'm with Vanessa. And he said to Vanessa, why are you here? And she went, oh, I don't know, I'm with Biggins. And Christopher Biggins went, oh, gosh, don't ask me why I'm here. It was so embarrassing. So embarrassing. I'll always remember that. But that. That was indicative of our early days because we just so happened to be with each other and we kind of found each other. She had found someone that was joyful and upbeat and happy and happy. Go, lucky. And I'd found someone who I just knew where I was. I just knew. I just felt so secure and stable in my relationship and, you know, so, yeah, it was lovely. You know, that's what we all want. We all want that security and stability. But another thing I've found with age gap relationships in my work is that often people are battling their own friends. Their friends are going, why are you with that old dude? Or why are you with that old girl? You know, that old woman, you know, and so I think there's a. That added pressure in maybe your friends were very welcoming. I think some of my friends. Because I was. No, no, not at all. Yeah, yeah, I. You know what? Sorry to cut you off. No, no, not at all. No one was really welcoming. Nobody. Everyone was, but. But then, yeah, I suppose everyone. I don't really blame you. I think. I don't know, I just think, you know, the Personas. I'm a musician, you know, slightly younger musician, and she was a talk show host and he's older, and they just didn't See us together, people couldn't really. What's this kind of like musician kind of. He should be with a little dolly bird or a, you know, that's what they call them, like a page free girl or something, you know, something stereotypical that they thought that I, that I would be with. Yeah. And girls and guys, famous girls and guys said the same thing. Yeah. Now, yeah, I can understand that because I had a lot of pressure when you think my friends were like 18, 19 and they're going, why are you with that old dude? You know, he's 36. So I had a lot of pressure that way. They had to accept him. When we eventually had children, I married him and then divorced him though. But a lot of them said we knew it wouldn't last, you know. Now Urban angel has said, my husband is 20 years older than me. It's the best relationship I've ever had. And hi, Gordon. She's saying hi to her husband. Yeah. So, you know, it can work. It can, it can be, you know, the stability that you, you find in each other, you know. Now, before we go on to trending topics, could you give me maybe the one main piece of advice you'd give anybody who's started dating someone who's older or younger than themselves? I think it just has to be. I think age is not what you focus on. I think if you're focusing on age, you're going wrong. It's the same rules apply. Focus on the person and does that person meet the requirements that you want out of a relationship? I think it's too much to focus on age. I don't think there is any advice. I think a person is a person. So you're looking at the core of a person. I wasn't really fixed on Vanessa's age. I was just fixed on the fact that she was stable, as in stable personality. She wasn't about to change. She was very set in her ways and that's what I was looking for. She was like the fact that I was very sunny, I had a sunny nature. She said I wasn't really, you know, everything. I took everything quite light hearted. Nothing was that serious or that deep. I seem to have this thing where I can just walk through life just being kind of happy, happy, pleased to be there and happy to meet people and see to them. And I'm genuinely like that, I think. And funnily enough, I was in a conversation with my sister the other day and she said to me, oh, Ben, you know what you were like when you were young. You Got the most toys, this, that. And I, and I said, what? Really? No, we all got the same. She goes, no, no, no, they always bought you extra stuff. And I said, oh, really? She said, you know, you just always been where you are. Just always, like happy and sunny and you always got around Mum or you got around dad and you always smiling and, and they just, I don't know. I wouldn't say they loved you more, but they gave you more toys. And that's what my sister said. So it's obviously something that was, been. It's obviously something that I've had from my birth, from my childhood. That's why, that's just how I am. So, you know, and that's what Vanessa was looking for. So that's why our relationship works. And so I don't think, I think if you focus on age, there's a problem. You don't look for anyone older or look for anyone younger. You know, to a certain extent you might have a sexual preference or I like older women or I like younger guys. Okay, but that only goes so far. Exactly. For a marriage. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Because, you know, the sexual chemistry can go up and down after, after the first 612 months, whatever. Now, the first trend we're going to look at is the radio presenter Georgie Bingham has just posted how she's been sober for a year and, you know, really saying really positive things about it and she's had a really good response. And this has been trending now. Sometimes, though, when celebrities post about their traumas, their, their, their depression or whatever, they get a really hard time. So where do we stand with. When celebrities reveal all. How do you see that? Positive? I, I, yeah, I think it's nice to kind of be as transparent as you can be and share different journeys in your life. I think you do have to draw the line and have a really good gauge at what you're sharing. So if it's something, you know, sometimes you're in a privileged position to be able to do privileged things. You might be able to go to places that people can't go and you might be able to buy and afford things that people can't afford. And, you know, so you have a group of followers and you're aspirational to a certain extent, but sometimes, you know, there was a whole heap of celebrities at one time. There's a massive backlash. They were all in Dubai and we were on lockdown over here. And they kept on posting and posting and posting, and it was really upsetting and it wasn't what they would do anything illegal, but nevertheless, it was just that it was in bad taste. And I. So I. I think you do have to be careful. You have to gauge what you're sharing. But I think if something is really, really important to you and people follow you, you. You should feel comfortable to share it if something's so important, because this is who I am, this is who I want you to know me as. I'm not showing off, but, you know, alcohol has been a problem for me, or I've always kind of noticed that I haven't really got a grip on it, and. But, you know, in the last year, I've been completely sober, and I'm so proud of myself, and I want to share this. I'm so happy about it. This is what matters to me. You follow me on social media, and this is what actually matters for me. And, you know, when I've shared certain things, it could be the time I've been in a relationship with Vanessa or this or that, if I lose followers from it, but it's real to me, then that's what it is. Because whether you're a celebrity or not, you don't stop being a person. Exactly. Person. I'm a human being first and a person who feels and is happy and whatever, and I try my best not to upset people on social media or rub things in people's faces. I try to be sensitive, but if it's something like that, I think it was a great thing that you shared, and I think that's good. And, you know, that topic is quite dodgy, because I think Boris hasn't really. He's had so much other stuff going on, obviously, with the virus, but, yes, really attacked that subject. And I think drinking has gone up hugely. Yes. No, it has. During lockdown and. And. But Boris hasn't really said anything or talked about heavy drinking and stuff like that, because I just think his other things have been on his mind and that's the last thing. But they. They might have to. You know, I think a lot of people, you know, have gone from drinking, you know, two glasses of wine a day or two glasses of wine, you know, every two days to, like, a bottle of wine almost a day or what. Do you know what I mean? I just think it's just. And, you know, used to say, I never drink at home. I'm a social drinker, I never drink. Now it's like, I only drink at home, you know, I mean, I think it's good. I think it. It's powerful when someone who has a Lot of followers opens up about a painful journey. I mean, like Denise Welsh with what she's done for people who suffer with depression has been incalculable. The good she has done. And someone like Georgie Bingham talking about sobriety. Lisa Riley recently celebrated her six years of sobriety on Twitter. I think those are really good. They really help people. I have people that I work with, clients who say to me, wow, it really impacted me when Denise was talking about her depression. I felt I could open up. That is a great thing. And I think you're absolutely right. What I think happens with celebrities is like Madonna during lockdown. I think she tweeted a picture of herself in some luxury bath saying, oh, isn't lockdown so hard? I think that's where I draw the line with celebrities, you know, And I've got a couple more comments here. Urban angel says, the world would be a better place if we had more men like Ben. So positive and so much respect for life and love. And Helen has joined in, says, hey, Dr. Pam and Ben, Happy Thursday from. From Helen, who's now listening in. Yeah, so. So, yeah, I think. I think we're kind of on the same page that you have to think about what you're sharing when you're. When you're a celebrity with that kind of status. And it can be so powerfully good or you can get slammed, you know, now I deal with encouragement. So there are always four powers at work in anything you do. Power in what you say, and there's as much power in what you don't say. There's power in what you do, and there's much power as in what you don't do. And at every moment, you have to exercise one of those powers to encourage whoever's, you know, the audience, whoever's you're listening to, or your friend or your brother or your followers or whatever. You know, it's always exercising one of the four powers. Yeah, I love that. Now we only have, like, another minute, so just a quick one. We'll touch on trending. Masks have been trending about now that we will be, you know, taking off masks in a couple weeks and. And sort of thing. How do you feel about that? Because some people are saying, I can't wait to get them off. And other people are saying, well, actually, I quite like wearing them now for different reasons. Some people who are shy, you know me when I don't have makeup on, I like to run to the shops with my mask now because I don't have to put makeup on. Where do you stand. Are you looking forward to the day when you see people's faces? Or does it. How do you feel about that? I'm, I'm, I'm one of those. I still never really got into the mask thing. I was. I still always thought it was uncomfortable all the way through. I do, I agree with them when I needed to agree with them, but I can't really wait to, to get them off. I'm just one of those people. I never quite got myself around it and actually, since I was, you know, sort of three or four weeks into my first vaccine, I, you know, I started wearing a mask less and less. Not obviously I'm inside, I was wearing it, but at one time I was wearing it just walking down the street, you know, just, just genuinely or generally. But yeah, so I'm, I'm one of the. I can't wait to get them off. I still find them uncomfortable. I get too hot in them, you know, I sometimes I can hardly breathe, you know, that kind of thing. I find it awkward when I'm on the telephone and I'm speaking into this mask and my voice sounds like yes. So no masks. I really appreciate that. Thought I adjusted to them really quickly. So, you know, I mean, it'd be great when we can act more normal, but at the same time I quite want to sneak one on when I don't have makeup on and running down to the shops. But Ben, it's been amazing having you on the show. I was going to say it's been amazing having you on the show again. Let me just flag up now, you're also on TikTok now too. So where, what, what handle do you use on TikTok? Because I'm not on TikTok, just Big Ben Ofadu, my surname O, F, O, E, D, U and then Big Ben before it. So I try to keep my name the same through all my social platforms. So, you know, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter and Facebook just at Big Ben Ofadu. So please give me a follow if you're watching this. And yeah, I try to entertain. Well, that's amazing. You do entertain. I mean, on Instagram, you're incredible. And I see you posting some of your TikToks to like Twitter and yeah, I just don't have time to get on TikTok. But no, I love what you post. Thank you again and give my love to your other half. I will say, I will say definitely. Especially as we were talking about her. Yeah, lots of love, darling. I will. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Bye. That was great to have Ben on and I'm so excited about my next guest too. Now they created the groundbreaking Bickerton Grace Art Gallery. Annamarie Bickerton is an artographer combining photography and mixed media art. And Robert Grace is an award winning artisan and artist. Now on social media you can find them Bickerton Grace Gallery and their website is bickerton grace gallery.com and AnneMarie and Robert should be joining me now. Hello. Hello. Very good. So good to see you. Of course I see you. Anne Marie, every, every couple months you drop off a new, new lot of sentiment pieces for me from, to sell. You sell them? I sell them. I haven't seen Robert for ages. You know, it's been like a year, maybe summer last year, I think, and before lockdown or. I think and I've just got a little bit grayer and a little bit bigger and grayer. Yeah, definitely a bit bigger. Now the first thing I want to ask you about is, you know, I'm so excited that you've included me in your very large exhibition coming up for the Sentiment collection. Now it's opening May 28th and we get all the details for people who want to see it. But let's talk about Sentiment Art. How did this idea evolve and if you can describe it? Okay, well, the, the idea came from what I was doing as an artisan. I specialized in mosaics. And mosaics are in fact a pixel. This is how the idea. So when you're, when you stand up close to a mosaic, you can see the individual pieces, but when you stand further back, you, you see it as a, as a picture. And Annmarie being a photographer, a professional photographer, photographs are exactly the same thing. When you zoom in on them, they become pixels. So the two arts that we had or professions crossed over and we were creating, we decided to create a piece of mixed media work and it was based in and around pixels, which was our first Sentiment piece. And then we decided to look at a way that we could connect with the world as virtually unknown artists. And the idea came that we should divide this piece of artwork into a thousand pieces and to project the idea of connecting through the medium of art. And the piece of artwork that we created really lent itself to that. And that's where I think the idea began. And because it was so well received with what we were doing, we then decided that we should reach out to other artists because we divided the first piece, excuse me, into 12 pieces and it was just so beautiful. And it was just one crazy conversation. Where we were like, why stop there? You know, and thinking about artists and artists who are very solo, who work on their own, they're not really connected to people. And this was such a wonderful way to connect everybody together. This, this particular collection doesn't just connect all the artists, but it connects all of the people that own a piece of those artworks. So it's. It's vast, the people it reaches. And especially with this collection, because it's global. So we have artists from. That was a real surprise when, when we, when we started the venture, we were overwhelmed when we reached out to artists, overwhelmed with the response. Because ordinarily, when you think of an idea, it would start locally and then expand out, but immediately it. It was global immediately. And we got responses from artists from all over the world immediate, which made the whole idea. Who really got the idea of the sentiment collection immediately, which. Which connected worldwide, not just locally. So the message, it was really quite a clear one. And again, with the artists that we have the stories behind every image that we are sent. Amazing. There's. There's such emotion in every image that we are sent and a different type of story that to be told by every different artist from every corner of the world. It's a wonderful, wonderful experience being on this end of it and experiencing it. When you asked me, I mean, I. You first asked me, I don't know, it was. It was a year ago, February. Yeah. And. And I was just bowled over by the idea then. Then I got a sort of second thought of, but I don't want one of my paintings that I've spent days and days on, you know, chopped into bits. But when I. Then when you gave me a piece firsthand of your original and I saw the quality and the care that you do in separating the paintings, I was like, yes, this is a brilliant idea. In fact, Urban angel, who's listening, says I own 3 of the sentiment pieces. She's amazing. And it's stunning. And such an affordable way to connect with art. And that was my thought process too, because a lot of people want a real piece of art from an artist, but the prices are, you know, too expensive. And that's a very, very good point. Yeah. And the way you've mounted them so beautifully on the, you know, 24 karat gold bases with the little bespoke blackwood frames, they just make a wonderful gift. So I was so happy when you asked me important how we presented the pieces in terms of the connecting with the artists. And financially, it really creates a great cash flow for artists. As well as, of. As promoting them as artists. They're like little business cards which are permanent business cards. So, you know, you're connecting with an artist in more than one way. You're connecting with them emotionally and through the medium of, of art. And also you're helping them as artists to grow. And who knows that these little pieces of art if, if in with the first chapter of this for us is, is the Biggerton Grace Gallery artists of my generation. You know, the. So. So in, in. In. In antiquity, when people look back at that volume of the hundred artists that we've chosen to see who was about in our lifetime, it's a, it's a record as well of virtually unknown artists, but the type of talent that is out there. And it's a, It's a wonderful record to start and to, to keep and to build upon as well. Before we talk more about that, can you. Let's flag up now the date of the exhibition. It opens May 28th, 20th. So it's the Friday and the Saturday 28th and 29th May. So it's mainly for those two days as the launch. But it will be running for quite a few months after that for anybody to come along and see it. Of course. Yeah, it will be here. And the address is. It's number 60, the highway in Wapping and the postcodes E1W 2BF. So it's just five minutes along from Tower Bridge. And so on your website. I haven't had a chance to check your website. Gosh, I haven't even had a chance to update my own Center Ultimate Collection on the website. I know, can I buy that one? And I go, that one's already sold. Let me show you some others. It's a nightmare because right now I've just got so much I'm juggling on your website. Is there the address? Yes. Where can people go? So the big. Yeah, so bigsongracegallery.com and then under gallery exhibitions, under the heading exhibitions, you can go down and get the address. Everything is on there. Yeah. And there'll be more information going on there. Yeah. And it's an enormous opportunity for people to see this vast array of a hundred artists. Yeah. And it's so rare to have that opportunity. And as well as the art that you're going to have on show, tell me about the kind of spectacular motorcycles, because something else has happened. The. The showroom that we have here is nearly 7,000 square foot and we have a company called Sterling Eco, which specializes in the design and manufacture of electric mopeds and motorbikes. But it's really closely connected with the gallery because we have the gallery inside the showroom because we create art bikes where clients can purchase these bikes and then have them decorated by one of 100 artists. So because they're not very expensive to buy and they are the future of urban travel because they're zero carbon vehicles. And this showroom has become a bit of a hub for art culture and the future of what the cities might be like in the future. So it's going to be more like Andy Warhol's place in the 60s. You know, it's going to be where everybody goes to hang out. It's an incredible space and it's all glass frontage. It's. It overlooks the. The highway and that's. You can. You could hear the. The ambulances running up and down all the. And the traffic outside's a massive amounts of traffic outside. So it's in a really great spot. And the. The gallery is going to be beautiful. It's as well we have a sentiment wall that we've built which will hold one piece from each artist in an enormous sentiment connecting those artists to each other as well. So it's like a giant sentiment piece with all the little. I can't wait to see which number piece mine's in there. I know it's already there. Actually, leave it as a surprise. We've actually got one of yours here. So cool. One thing I was going to say when you were talking about yours, your piece, when about dividing it, because that was a really big thing for me. Connecting with the artist, talking about dividing your painting that you spent hours meticulously doing. But when I first. I mean, it was such a long time ago when we first started your piece and chopping it into those small pieces, what I loved seeing was these beautiful little creations coming from your creation. Because with your paintings, especially with the textures, because they're very abstract, these tiny little beautiful pieces came out of this big piece and I didn't want to part with any of them. As I made each one, I was like, I don't want to give this away. And I was showing people. And we'll see that at the exhibition. But they are. They become more stunning. Not that they can be more so. You know what I mean? They condense into this beautiful piece of artwork which people will do for themselves. But yeah, so. And I have been asking that question to some of the artists how they feel about dividing their artwork up. And it is a very interesting answer. But, you know, as artists, when we. When we sell a piece of work, it's almost like a piece of your soul flies out of the door because, you know, so much emotion. Yes. And that was a really emotional piece from the story I painted. Urban angel has said again, I've got one of Pam's jigsaw pieces on my wall. It's reflective of my life and how I was looking for the missing piece. Stunning. And I just. I love the sentiment behind that. And we're talking about the sentiment connection before we. We're just about out of time. I just want to quick tap into when I first met you a couple, and Robert was telling me about his crystal baths that he does for these fantastically wealthy people. I just think it's an incredible story. So tell us more about that. You take Swarovski. I can never pronounce it. Swarovski crystals. And you've done these baths for people. So basically, tell a little bit about that very, very quickly. As a craftsman, I specialized in mosaics and fixing mosaics in domes, basically in palaces. I was fortunate that I traveled around the world and the idea of came about creating beautiful bathtubs to sit in beautiful bathrooms, because at the time, all that was there in these enormous, beautifully ornate bathrooms were just plain white, freestanding bathtubs. I kind of figured that if I used my skills as a craftsman to create mosaics, use precious metals and crystal and stuff to make really ornate pieces of functional sculpture, and that's how that idea was born. And it's not everybody's taste, because some it is really ornate. And I got often asked, do you have one of these? No, I don't. Because they're for a certain. A very, you know, small market. Yeah, a very small market, but a niche market. But then. And the crystal bathe collection, the Swarovski stuff, is more. It's more accessible as a range. Listen, I'm. I'm in the middle of selling my home and looking to buy another one in my new one, I'm going to come have you assess the bathtub and what you can do to it. But thank you again for joining me. People need to go to your website, bickertongracegallery.com and find out about the exhibition because it's free of charge. And you are going to walk into a world of. Of all different artists. And thank you for joining me, guys. Lots of love, and I'll be talking to you very soon. Thank you. So let me just give that website again. Biggertongracegallery.com. now, my final guest today is always last but not least because I'm blessed with so many wonderful guests. She is a parent partner for the National Autistic Society. She is an asd mum. She is also a model and an actor and on social media, on Twitter, you can find her at Ms. Sam Ms.am_tomlin. And on Instagram, it's Ms. Samantha Tomlin. And I'm delighted that Sam should be joining me now. Hello, darling. Always good to see you. You keep my lovely. How are you? Well, I've got a raging cold, so it's a good job we're not in the same room. Okay. As long as it's not Covid this time. Like last. No, it's not Covid this time. I did it. I did one of the lateral flow tests yesterday. We have a bunch of those and it was negative. Yeah. Oh, I've had both vaccines. You've had both because. Yeah, because I'm a carer. Oh, of course. Okay. Because I feel like invincible now, but I still wear a mask and everything. Like, yeah, I can't wait. My second one will be due about the third week of June because that'll be three months after my first. So I'm looking forward to that. And I'll feel more invincible. Yes. Now, today, Sam, we were going to talk about dating. When you're divorced or when you've broken up from a serious relationship, maybe you weren't married because as I said to you, you are part of Wingman dating app. And as I said to you, I have a lot of people who contact me about this issue. You know, they find it hard to get going after divorce or breakup on the dating scene again. And of course, you've been there. I've been there. So how did you find it when you were first, you know, divorced and thinking about dating again? What approach did you take? Well, initially it is. It's terrifying, especially if you've been in a relationship for, I think it was like 20 plus years. And I hadn't dated actually since I was a teenager. So I, I left it quite a while because I knew, I just knew. I, I wasn't ready. But when I finally decided, no, okay, I'm gonna get out there, I approached it with sort of. I wasn't expecting much, to be honest. And it's probably a good job that I wasn't because I joined every dating app going all the main ones. And I got, I mean, I, I went on many, many dates, but I just, I just had fun. I met Nobody that was anything like their profile. I made a good few friends. All of them would be shorter or much older than their photograph. It was, you know, typical, typical stuff and it is very nerve wracking. But I think the thing I found the hardest was because my children were 10, 11 at the time. Yeah. And that is what concerned me. So I thought I don't want to just jump into something else. So as far as they was concerned, nothing was happening. Obviously I, I didn't ever bring anyone home. There was nothing, you know, I just literally went on a few dates, I had a few drinks, I had a lovely time. And a couple of them I still speak to now. And that was six, seven plus years ago. So it sort of, I think that would be the main thing I'd say is to try just initially when you're getting out there and you're starting to date, whoops, you've just frozen. This is what I hate about WI Fi expectations. Am I back? Yeah, yeah, you're back. You're back. You were saying when you first get out there, manage your expectations. I think it's really important that you sort of, especially if you haven't dated for a long time, it's good to just sort of go out and have fun and just sort of experience a date. You don't, you know, you don't have to meet the right person on the first one you go on, or the second or the third on, or even the hundredth, because when you finally do, you know, you want that person to be the right one for you. Yeah, interesting. It sounds like, you know, you, you, you've written my dating article for me because I always say to people when, when they come to me in the date coaching, in my date coach, it's always about give yourself some time to heal before you hit the dating scene. And the second point I always say to people which you've just said is go out kind of just looking for fun and friendship. If you go out looking like, I've got to find the right one this time, it's like written over your face and your body language that you are on a mission and that is a real turn off to people. Or you get the women or men who want to take advantage of someone who's vulnerable, really wanting to meet someone, really wanting to find the one and they take advantage of you and they kind of act like I'm the one and then they, you know, turns out they're not. They just want to take advantage of something like a, you know, a hot stone that Happens. I've heard that so many times. And it's happened to me as well. It's sort of like I haven't had the. I haven't perfectly dated. I've. I've met a couple of guys a few years ago that I thought, no, maybe this one is the one. And I really like them and sort of. Yeah. And I thought, okay, I'm going to open up a bit now. And the second I sort of did, that was it, you know, never saw them again. So you have to just have a thick skin, not worry. And then when you meet the right person. I don't know how you think, Pam, but I just think that then you can open up and they want you to, and then it just all falls into place. Well, and I always say in that what you're talking about is go with your gut. You really have to go with your gut. Because if you're feeling. I'm not quite sure about this person and you're already a bit rocky having come out of a major breakup, it's your intuition telling you that there's little signs they're giving that means that their heart really isn't in it. Maybe they're stringing your lung. Maybe they're just looking for sex. If you're looking just for sex, that's fine. I'm never one to judge. Just have safer sex. But. But if something tells you in your gut I think I'm more into them than they're into me, then be cautious. Yeah. People are not very good after breakups of listening to their intuition. And it's there for a purpose. Absolutely. I could not agree more. I would say that's one thing that I wished I had done more is with the two times I did think, oh, this one, maybe this is the right one. I just. I just knew there was something up and I thought, oh, maybe it's just me. I'm sort of. You know, I'm reading too much into it. I'll give them another. Both times. No, I should have just gone with my gut straight away and just. It's just not worth it. It's just not worth the. I think we all feel like we don't want to be rejected, especially if you haven't dated since you were quite young. Yeah. So you forget what that feeling's like. And you need to get over that. You need to not think it's not a personal thing, like exactly what you just said. Maybe they were looking for something else. Maybe they just wanted sex and just brush them off and just keep Going and just, just enjoy yourselves, especially now. Like, what's happened after the past year? Yeah, it's. If you're out on the dating scene, I mean, it would have been very tricky. Yeah. In fact, I've done a number of articles for Wingman App about, you know, learning to. Getting to know someone when you're locked down and all that kind of stuff. Exactly, exactly. And they have been absolutely wonderful. And you know, we. We love having your blogs. Thank you. Urban angel said, samantha is stunning. It's great. She's speaking about her journey and I've added her on Instagram. Oh, thank you, Urban Angel. Thank you very much. Although we talk about it more, don't we? Like ladies or women of, you know, that are in their 40s, 50s. I mean, we do date. We do still have. Have sex. We do want somebody. But it's, you know, I think I was. What was I. I was probably 40, I think, when I got divorced. About 40. Yeah. So quite a while ago, but. Whereas I married young at. At 20 and divorced at 29. So. But let me tell you, my marriage gave me such wisdom because I was not. Didn't have a very nice first husband. And the wisdom it gave me, even at 29, when I started dating again, was if anyone gives me an intuition that they are anything like my ex, this is going nowhere. Yeah. And so I would just. I stuck to that rule rigidly. One trait, let's say, of my ex, totally unreliable. So if I had a date with someone and this happened once, a friend set us up and he said, we went out on a Friday night, he took me to a lovely restaurant, we had a lovely time. And he said to me, I'll call you over the weekend and we'll arrange our next date. And I thought, great. Well, he called me about six days later, not over the weekend. And I said to him, when he called me, I said, if I'd held my breath waiting for you to call last weekend, I'd be dead by now. And he went, what? I said, well, I'd be dead. You told me you'd call over the weekend and you didn't. And he said, well, but people say those things. I said, no, my ex husband used to say those things. And now you're saying those things. I won't tolerate it. Yeah. Bye. Bye. I wish that's what everybody would do. He then rang our mutual friend Fiona. She'd be laughing at me, talking about this, who had set us up. And then she called me, said, pam, darling, are you okay? What's going on because he's really upset. And I was like, well, I'm just not giving him another date. And she said, good for you. He does have a habit of being like that when he starts dating. And I said, I don't need that. So, you know, just being really with your boundaries, just saying it like it is. I just wish women and men who've not had good experiences, everybody just, just sort of. Because it doesn't matter. You can't, you know, you're not saying anything to offend anybody. It's just what you will not put up with because it's, you shouldn't have to put up with anything. You should be able to just have a relationship and be wonderfully happy. A few rows here and there. Of course, of course. None of that. I'll call you tomorrow. And then I don't call for two weeks. Weeks, because that's sort of. They're stringing you along and clearly they're dating many, many other people, so it's pointless. Or say, okay, well, let's go out on a few dates and we'll have another day and I'm seeing someone else. Or I just think people should be a bit more open about what's happening. Yeah, definitely. Now, what else would you say with children? Because of course you said what I would say too. I certainly didn't bring anyone home until we got serious. There was no way, you know, the kids would know mommy's going out because she's dressed up and the babysitter's there, you know. But I would not introduce anyone prematurely to my children. And that worked out really well for me. I did have pressure from people. Did you ever have pressure of people saying, well, when do I get to meet your kids? Absolutely. That's a really hard thing to deal with. And to jump it is because it's sort of, you feel like, oh, they want to sort of get to know me better. They want to know my family. But I, I, I find that if it's very early days, if it's sort of, you're only in, like, the first month, I, I would see that as a red flag. Why do you, you know, why would you find it necessary to meet my children? It's not necessary. You know, you would be dating me. And if they didn't like the kids when they met, or the kids didn't like them when we. They met, eventually, six months later, then that will be it. It will be over. So. Absolutely. And that's how I sort of always did it. Even my, like, my current partner. Now, we've been together five years and because obviously Henry's on the spectrum, the boys were older, they were both teenagers when we sort of met. But I said to him, you know, I have a challenging life and you sort of basically have got a fit around me. I can't come over and stay with you. You have to come over here. And I said, and I come. Completely understand if that is not going to suit you. So we didn't stay overnight together for a long, long time unless we went away somewhere. And when we finally did, I gave him the option. I said, like, you can bail out now because this is going to be it. You know, you're going to be traveling here every weekend until they're old enough for, for something else. And he, he said yes, because he wanted to be with me. And that was cool. Well, see, that's a good, such a good gauge because I, with one of my children, has chronic pulmonary disease and in Hospital for 10, 12, 14 days at a time all through childhood and adolescence. And when I started dating people, I would say, just like you did, you have to fit around my life. I'm often at the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital until 10pm you know, and, and then I, I leave them and I go back, you know, more another child to look after. And anybody who seemed a bit prickly about that, well, they were out, out of my dating book. But listen, it's been so good talking to you and I hope women listening and men listening and tomorrow when the show's repeated as a radio show will take that strength you've brought to this conversation and just believe it. So, Sam, people can find you on Instagram, they can find you on Twitter. You're Sam Tomlin and always great to talk to you, darling. Thank you so much. Lovely. You take care. I'll see you soon. And I forgot to say about Wingman app. Oh, don't worry. Wingman App. Go to Wingman App and get your friends to help you with your dating. That's how I did it. See you later. Follow Wingman. Lovely to see you, darling. And thanks to everyone who's listened today and it is repeated as a radio show tomorrow. It's lovely to have comments on social media, but I know most people listen to it as a radio show. I'll be back in a fortnight with more fantastic guests and, and issues that I hope matter to you and that you can take away some a little bit of advice from. I'm Dr. Pam Spurr. You can find me on Twitter and on Instagram and at my website, drpam.co.uk. thank you for joining me.