Trending With Dr. Pam Spurr – Cheryl Baker, Steven Smith

Hello and welcome. I'm Dr. Pam Spurr. You're here with me for The trending with Dr. Pam Spurr show on the men's radio station live on their social media platforms today. And then it's repeated as a full on radio show on Friday, 4pm on both the stations, the men's and the women's radio stations. Now, as usual, I have fantastic guests lined up. I'm absolutely delighted. I've got such a cracking show today. And also just to remind you that when we talk about the trends, we look at what the politicians and celebrities might be trending for, but we bring them back to our life and how they impact us and really make it personal. You can comment live and I always love reading out your comments. Now, my first guest is a very special woman. She has such an incredible personality, lights up any red carpet. She's a TV and radio presenter, she's a member of the Fizz. And this year is the 40th anniversary of her winning the Eurovision Song Contest with Bucks Fizz. Who can forget that? We're going to be playing a clip of that in a little bit now. She performs with Mike Nolan and Jay Astin as the Fizz. And I'm delighted she's going to be joining me now. And I want to give you their websites, it's the physofficial.com and cherylbaker.net and on social media you can find her at cherylbaker and on Instagram. That's Twitter. Instagram. It's the Cheryl Baker and she's with me now. Hello. It's so nice to meet you finally because, you know, we see each other on Twitter. I know, I know. It's lovely to see you in the flesh, Pam. Well, yeah, almost as much. We have a lot to chat about today and we're going to hear all about your new music. But first off, I just want to ask you, how are you feeling with now that we're kind of coming out of lockdown, what kind of difference has that made to your life right now? Well, I'm going out to dinner tomorrow night for the first time, seeing friends that I haven't seen for months. But actually, if I'm absolutely honest, lockdown hasn't been bad for me because I live in the middle of nowhere. I live in the middle of the countryside. I've got no neighbors, I've just got fields and woodland and honestly, fruit. I'm very, very lucky because of that. When lockdown happened last year, both of my children, who are 26, one, lived in London. One lived in Halfenden with her boyfriend. When lockdown happened, they both came home because. So. And their partners. Kyla's partner, Caitlin came, lived here, worked in the spare bedroom. Ben, who works. He works on his own, so he was. He was safe and he would come here. So we've had a jolly time. To be honest, Pam, it's been. I've walked miles and miles and miles every day with my dog that done lots of gardening, which I've loved, but discovered a love of gardening. I haven't discovered that yet. I've loved it. I've been writing my autobiography. It's. I've utilized my time as best I can. It's going to be a cracking autobiography and I want to say welcome. Beauty Ties just said, how lovely to see Cheryl so happy because she's getting out. Yeah, getting out for your dinner tomorrow night. Yeah. I mean, I really want to get into the music, but first I just want to ask you, in your childhood, were you musical? Where did this all come from? Yeah, I've always sung. Always. I wanted to be a singer ever since I'm the fourth of five children and so the three that are older than me are quite a bit older than me. I mean, my older sister is 11 years older than me, and so when she was a teenager, she was buying Buddy Holly, Elvis Presley, the Everly Brothers, that was her era. And. And I was listening to that music and listening to the harmonies, especially the Ebony Brothers did, and thinking, I want to do that. I want to be what? I want to make the music like they're making now. And so my. In my head, I didn't only want to be a singer, I wanted to sing harmony. So. Which I do and which I've always done. Yeah, exactly. And we've got. Helen's joined us, she says, hey, Pam and Cheryl, hello to you. Thanks for joining in. And. Well, before we go into your musical career, can we just hear a clip from that hit that made your name? And we've got Making your mind up for you. At least I think we've got it. Where's the clip? The song that changed my life. There it is. Who can't smile with that? I mean, honestly, I remember that I'd kind of just moved to this country when that came out. Eurovision Song costume test was so massive. So that must have been such an exciting time for you guys. It was. It changed my life, Pam. It changed it completely. I wouldn't be. I wouldn't be talking to you now. I wouldn't be living in this house, I wouldn't have my children. It's it. Absolutely. Winning that competition changed my life. We had a hit record anyway when we did the Eurovision Making your mind up, for some reason, it seemed to hit the. The right spot with everybody. So when we sang the song for Europe, which was where they choose the song for the Eurovision, when we did that, we won it so easily. I think we got top marks from almost every, every jury. And so by the time we did the Eurovision Song Contest, which was only three weeks later, we were already number five in the charts. So we had a top five. Yeah, we had a top five hit on our hands without even doing the Eurovision Song Contest. But winning that competition didn't just make us British success. A particular says it gave us success around the world, which was just phenomenal. You know, our feet didn't touch the ground. Can I ask who thought of the skirt? Whipping off the skirt? I remember going, whoa. Watching that on tv, it was a stroke of genius, wasn't it? It actually came about purely by chance because Jay is very tiny, always has been, and she wanted to wear a miniskirt. Now, me, I've always been really athletic, very, very chunky thighs. Runner. I was always a runner. And so my thighs were fairly short and really chunky. Still are. Got a little bit of extra flab on them now as well. And, and, and so I wanted to wear a skirt to the knee. And we were having this discussion with everybody involved, the production team, the, the record label, the choreographer, everybody was there a manager and, and it was going on and on and on. And I said, oh, for goodness sake, let's, let's have both thinking, Jay can wear the short skirt and I'll wear the long skirt or something. Something along those lines. Yeah. And the choreographer said, that's it on the line, if you want to see some more. We ripped the top skirt off and the mini skirts underneath. Oh, wow. And that was it. We won, Pam, we won by four points. Absolutely. I'm sure that's down to Bill. You won everybody over because back then, you know, 40 years ago, no one had done anything like that, had they? I don't remember anybody whipping off their skirts. You know, it was only revealing mini skirts, but still it was kind of like this kind of drama, a bit of excitement, you know. I know, I know. And I think the first time, actually, the first time we did it in front of anybody was in the rehearsals for the song for Europe. And strangely, my husband now was in a band in that song for Europe and They had a very good song, they had a ballad which was absolutely beautiful. And they thought that they had a good chance of winning. And actually, so did I, to be honest. Until the dress run, until we ripped the skirts off. He said to the rest of his band, we might as well go home now. So did you start going out then? No, no. I'd known Steve. I met Steve in 1975 when I was in a previous band, Coco, and he was. We were both gigging around the country and our paths crossed quite a lot, actually, surprisingly. But we never got together. He was just a mate. And then it was forward to 1987. So long he was in the Bucks biz band. I was engaged to the drummer. I mean, honestly, 12 years it took. It took 12 years before we went out. And who doesn't like a drummer? I've always loved drummers. Well, Steve's a bass player, so I've stuck with the, with the rhythm section. They're always the laid back ones, aren't they, the bass players? They are, they are. I like to groove, but they like to stand at the back of the. Not many like Mark. Mark King. There's not many like him that like to stand at the front. Yeah. So you were saying. So you were engaged to the drummer. But. But then what happened with Steve then? So, yeah, we met him in 1987. Or. No, I've. I've been friends with him all that time. You know, he would come and visit me and my then fiance and we were doing a television show. Actually we were doing a television show in 1986 or 1987 where I was presenting it and I could sing live on this program and I had my own band. They said you can choose your own musicians. So I was always going to pick Steve because he was a fantastic bass player. And Adrian and I, my previous fiance, we were kind of falling apart. And Steve was being very caring, very understanding his moment. Well, and so did I, because I actually thought, what. What is wrong with me? Why am I staying with this guy who really doesn't care? And. And yet there's a guy here who really does care. And I. Why haven't I seen this before? So actually, Pam, I rang him. I rang him when we were back in London and. And was. I lived in London, I was living in Kent. Living in Kent. Rang him and I said, I need to talk to you. And when we got together, he said, this can't happen. We're mates, you know, what if it all goes wrong, then I'll lose you as a Friend. But anyway, I persevered. That is a lovely story and it just kind of shows about timing. I'm often talking about timing in my work when I'm doing date coaching. And that was all about, you know, there he was in your life all that time. But the right moment was much later on. Fascinating. I actually thought when in the early days, because he was a bit of a Jack the Lad and, and we'd be on tour and I'd see him go into the bar of the hotel where we were staying or something and I knew that he had a girlfriend, you know, and he'd go, start talking to some girls and I used to think the poor girl who he ends up with and it was me. So. So you, you, you guys met in. I'm not. You met. You got together in 1987 and then obviously you went on to have. You've got 26 year olds. Are they twins? Yeah, we didn't. We got married in 1992. 92. And yes, Carla and Natalie were born in June 94. So there'll be 27 in June now with two musical parents. Are they musical, I mean, or are they like, no way. Don't want to be in the business? They are. They. They're not actually. They have been put off of the business by what we do. Yeah. Because they've seen that's the side of the business that isn't so attractive, isn't in the public eye. But yes, Kyla has got her first single released. She goes under the professional name of Lakey. She's got her first single release on the 7th of May that's called saving Me. And it's to coincide with Mental Awareness Week because she suffers, she suffers quite badly from panic attacks and from anxiety. So she wanted, she wanted to release the single to coincide with that week. And Natalie. Yes, I agree. And Natalie, yes, she sings. She sings harmony with Kyla. She's very capable. I mean, she sings a lot in musical theatre but she's also a dancer and choreographer, so. Amazing. So your Christmas times, you must put on your own, like panto with everybody harmonizing and choreographed dancing. I'm afraid we do, yeah. You see, if you linked up with my house, you know, we all sing and, and have great times at Christmas, but only one of us has a good voice and it's not me. But no. That must be incredible to be in such a musical family. I love it. I absolutely love it. During lockdown, actually, we did a few family zoom calls where fizz fans could come, could watch or facetime fan or whatever. I can't remember what we did now. But anyway, we did a few shows as a whole family for the. For the Biz fans and all friends of ours, so they could see us performing just in my lounge, sitting on seti. Yeah, I love it. People have really had to dig deep with, you know, with those sort of things and think, how can I get my creativity out while we're in lockdown? And that's brilliant. You know, doing things like that. That must have been so rewarding, you know, for Europe, and hard, because when you're singing all the time, you know your vocal cords are exercised every day and everything and you kind of forget that. Yes, you need to exercise them again if you're going to be a singer. And so to do these shows, we did them and at the end of it, I was going, oh, my voice. My throat is hurting because I haven't been using it like I normally do. So we're going back into the studio very soon. Mike J and I are going into the studio probably next week. We're starting with Mike Stop to do an album. So I need to sing every day to get my voice back to sort of fighting. Fighting speed. And with your vocals, are you one of these very strict people? I've known singers, and some are incredibly strict. Like, they have the voice rest for a number of hours before, say, a rehearsal or a performance, and they do all sorts of other things. Do you have a kind of regime that you follow or are you quite relaxed? You've got a naturally, you know, good voice that doesn't need kind of such looking after. When I've been in the theater, when I've done theatrical productions, musicals, always it's. You're obliged to get to the gig early so that you can do a proper vocal workout. Yeah, warm up. Yeah. But I. I must admit, I have to admit, and it is not great. I don't do it before a show. However, we do do a sound check. So we do sing before, you know, before a show because we always have a sound check. But, yeah, I know we should do a vocal warm up. And actually, we don't. It's a bit naughty, really. It's a bit lazy. I had Evie Burnett on the show a couple months ago and I know what she would be saying to you and you would be right, I should have had her on today now. So. So eventually Buck's Fizz came to an end. And what year was that, roughly? Well, the year that I left, I left when I was pregnant, so I left In December, actually. Exact date was December 11, 1993. Wow. Yeah. No, it was an important date for me because actually, I would have left earlier. I mean, we were not doing good gigs by that time. We were 12 years after the song for the Eurovision. And Whereas now the 80s has come back with a vengeance. You know, now there are loads of festivals, 80s weekends. It's amazing. But not then. It was really, you know, if you're an 80s band, you were down and out. And so we were doing bingo halls and we were doing cabaret spots in holiday resorts that I wouldn't have worked as with Coco, you know, before Bucks Bears. And I just thought, I need to live. And the only reason I stayed was because Mike Nolan, we'd had a. We'd had this terrible coach crash where Mike was badly. He was brain damaged. And so I kind of stayed to look after him. Yeah. And then when. But when I got pregnant, that was my opportunity to say, I can't. I can't have these children and be on the road. I just can't. I have to. I have to stay at home. So I left. And at that time I was really busy doing TV presenting. And so from then on, for the rest of the 90s, I was just a television presenter. Yeah, I remember seeing you on so many things. Yeah. This thing about, you know, coming to an end, you know, partly because the pregnancy and partly because of the sort of gigs you were doing, but it's still testament the fact that you guys were hauling your butts out there and still getting to those smaller gigs. This is the thing, part of the industry. I have family in the music industry and that people don't understand. If you're going to get anywhere, you are hauling your butt around the place to all sorts of gigs and you have to be someone like you, with that drive, determination, work ethic. You must despair. When you probably have met all sorts of people during the years who think, oh, it was so easy, you just had a hit and you became famous. You know, they say you get all that money and you're only on stage for an hour, but hang on a minute, you know, we did all the training, we did all the rehearsals, we paid for the rehearsal rooms, we paid for the musicians. We have to get to the gig, we have to stay over in a hotel if it's too far. There's so much more involved than just getting on stage and singing, you know, so. So. But having said that, I love what I do. I've always wanted to do it from a very small child and I'm living the dream. So even now, Even in my 60s, I'm still living the dream. And I think that's wonderful and that's incredible. I absolutely love that. I love your attitude. I love your spirit. It was one reason why, I know, because you. You can always get a flavor of someone from social media. I just knew I want to have a Cheryl on the show, you know, I love that kind of attitude. So tell me, when did you three, you know, with Mike and Jay, reunite as the Fizz? So how long has that been going? Well, it was. I was working for a magazine, I was writing for a magazine. And in the year 2000, there was the very first 80s reunion tour. It was called the Here and Now tour. And there was Kim Wilde and Paul Young and. I can't remember, Nick Hershel, maybe, I can't remember, but all these artists that we used to do Top of the Pops with and. And I went along to interview them when they were rehearsing for the gig. And I remember thinking, well, I'm interviewing me, but I'm one of them. I was an 80s artist. Why don't we do this? So it took a bit of time, it took another few years. But Christmas 2004, we got back together again and we did that first Here and Now tour. Jay wasn't involved at that time. Jay came along four years later. We were reintroduced to her. And to be perfectly honest, Pam, we'd fallen out of sort of love with Jay because there was such a lot of mucky water had gone under the bridge. And you only hear your side of the story, don't you? You only hear what people are telling you. I never heard anything from Jay. And so I wasn't sure. Doing this television program and meeting her again, I wasn't sure how I was going to feel. But we got together, we talked, we ironed out a lot of things. You know, she said this, but. But that's what that should have said because that, you know, it was all trying to sort out the. The. What really happened. Yeah. And. And so we started working there and then, and we haven't stopped. And actually, she brings so much to the table. She brings. She's so artistic, Our outfits, she designs everything. She gives so much thought to the artistic side. You know, I'm not saying that she doesn't do anything else, but Mike and I don't, you know, we. We need her. We need her input to make the band look great. And so. And so she. It's. It's brilliant. It's so much Better now than it was back in the 80s. Isn't that a wonderful life lesson where there's been really, as you say, mucky water, you know, flowing everywhere, every direction and that you managed to hear each other's look to a more positive sort of outcome and relating together again. Because obviously in my work I'm often dealing with people who want to reconcile or want to know. Maybe I just see one person, but that one person is telling me I really want to reconnect with that person that I fell out with. And it's been a while and it's a really tough road. So that must have been a big learning experience for you. And this show is all about, well being. Tell me a little bit more about that process. Yeah, it's when you get the wrong end of the stick, you know, and you believe. Really. I would say to anybody, don't ever listen to gossip. I hate gossip. Don't listen to someone's opinion on somebody because, you know, speak as you find. If you meet someone and you, and you get on with them, you can't listen to someone else say, oh, you know, don't, don't talk to that person. They're not very nice because you like them. And so, and also I, I'm a great believer, Pam, that positivity makes good things happen. And I am a very positive thinking person. And so. And actually, to be perfectly honest, Jay isn't. Jay always looks on the reason not to do something rather than the reason you should do something. So we kind of balance each other out in that respect. You know, she gives me a reality check every now and again and I give her a positivity boost. A mic in the middle. Well, I love Beauty ties has just said best advice ever. Cheryl hate gossips. So obviously she hates gossips. Yeah, I agree with you. You know, I mean, there's always two sides to every story and I always feel it's good to, you know, like if you're piggy in the middle, say then, you know, two warring people or something. You have to tread carefully and just try and not let it cloud your thinking. So a really good life lesson. Now we're talking about the fears. I think it's time we hear a little bit about of the fears. So I've got a clip from Amen which was written by my daughter Kyla. Oh, amazing. Good, here we go. I think my producer has it. Oh, that's weird. What is it? Something's gone. Something's gone wrong with the clip. There it is, there it is. Treading on your life, never cross your mind I am practically a stranger that has put myself in danger. Why are you looking after me? She said if I could tell you what's inside my head, well then you would realize. That is such a tune to dance to. I'm sorry to have the quality on that. The Internet connection might not, must not be very good. But what a tune to dance to. I was listening to the other day. I love it. Yeah. I mean, what. And she's so talented. We've got John Ryan who's joined and he says we avoid toxic substances, but toxic people can be equally damaging. Absolutely. Sometimes even more so. Yeah, exactly. Thanks for the comment, John. That is brilliant. Wow. The fact that she can write something that you can perform that is, that is really wonderful. Could you imagine how proud I am when we ever sing that? And the Fizz fans really took to that song. They love it. And what we do now when we perform it live, we don't introduce it anymore. It, because it all. I, I get given the key in, in my, in my ears I wear, you know, in ear monitors and they give me the key and I go saving secrets, Father. And as soon as I do it, the cheer goes up and they start clapping along and it's so fantastic. I love it. It was played lots on, on main radio stations, you know, through throughout the country. So I was incredibly proud of Kyla and well, Lakey as she's now known. But, but, and she wrote another song for our Christmas album and, and for our last album, Smoke and Mirrors. And for this album she's got another song lined up for us. But she's a prolific songwriter. She wrote a song yesterday. She wrote a song yesterday that she posted on Instagram and I, I didn't hear it. I had to find it on Instagram. She's very, you know, she keeps it all close to her chest and it's so good. I just love that. I mean my, my youngest used to be a singer songwriter and in bands and now she works in the industry. But I used to just be so proud when I'd hear one of her new songs and stuff. And you know, when she was 17, she was touring as far as Poland and Scotland and whatever and you just, you know, it's so exciting when your youngster has something creative. I think she's the other end of the business now. She looks after the artist. She isn't artist but I think you get more out of the business when you're watching your own do it than you do when you're Doing it yourself, you know. Yeah, I can understand that as a mother. Totally. Well, that's incredible. Now, tell me about the upcoming, what we can expect when. When we'll get information about when the Fizz is playing because then we're going to be chatting some of the trending things. Well, there's something that went in the paper actually, re yesterday. We're doing a gig in my garden because as I say, we live in the middle of nowhere and the garden is. It's fairly big. It's not massive, but it's fairly big. So it's going to be an intimate occasion, but we're going to do a proper live gig, which is in June. We do have one gig in May. Whether it happens or not is another matter. Maybe it will, maybe it will. It's in a hotel. But then the gigs properly start from the autumn. All the gigs that were cancelled from last year were put into autumn or spring of next year, so. And it's gone a bit crazy, actually. There are so many gigs in the book and everybody now is thinking, actually, we're going to come out of this, we're going to be all right and we can start, you know, I know the theater. Yes, yes. Seeing live music. I love live music, you know, to gigs all the time. And now I cannot wait to start again. Hey, maybe I'll be showing up at your garden, like crawling through the bushes. But I know everybody can get the information from the fizzofficial.com. yes, we've got a fan club as well on Facebook. We've got, We've got Cheryl, Mike and J, you know, Fizz. The Fizz fan club. So. And we've got a few thousand fans, which is amazing, you know. And then as we're going into the studio next week to start the new album, so. With Mike Stock. So, yeah, it's all systems go again. Hopefully it's going to be great. Your worth, work ethic and attitude will get you there. Now we're going to check out a couple of the things that have been trending in the last, you know, just, just, just in the last day. So much has been going on and the first story I wanted to run past you was of the amazing, inspirational Ben Parkinson, who was the most seriously injured soldier in Afghanistan. And he's just like, today he was on TV and he just makes you want happy, he makes your heart feel good and you feel a bit, you know, teary and all he's been through. Oh, my gosh, I'm getting teary just thinking that. But it is. It does make you feel tearful because it is amazing. What an amazing story and what an inspirational man. And what I want to take from his inspirational story was kind of, we all have bad times. Not as extreme as what Ben Parkinson's been through, but how we get through our bad times. Now, for me, when I'm going through a bad time, it is all about family. You know, I've got just a rock solid family and my best girlfriends and guy friends. Got a lot of guy friends, too. And if they're not there, you know, I would be. I would just not get through it. And I just wondered for you what. What gets you through bad times. To be perfectly honest, I've been. I've led a very blessed life. I haven't had many bad times, and I don't let bad things get on top of me. Yeah, it has happened on occasion. It's usually down to work if I'm stressed about work. But then I think, for me, it's taking my mind away from those things. And it's now, for instance, in the last year, it's getting into the garden. I really love that music. As soon as I wake up in the morning, I come into the kitchen, I turn the radio on. I don't watch telly in the morning. I have the radio. I love music. And we play music all day long in this house. Talking it out, talking it, especially to my sister, my older sister, and she will just listen. I don't want someone to give an opinion. I want somebody to so someone that I can air my. My anxiety to so that it just make. Just saying it kind of releases it and. And it doesn't feel so bad after all. That's. That's how it works for me. That is so very similar with me. And you know that we've had real few traumas in the family a couple years back. Really, really devastating. And if it wasn't for being able to err when you're feeling so unhappy, I think actually women are better than that than men. You would know better than I. But I think men tend to. If they've got anything on their mind or any. They're anxious about anything. They tend to. Certainly my husband does. They tend to hold it in rather than what I would do. I will get on the phone to my school girlfriends, you know, as I say, my sister. Yeah. And. And they will listen, and they will, you know, if they want. If you want an opinion, they'll give it. Otherwise, they'll just listen, which really helps enormously. But men Tend to bottle it up too much and that can be, that can lead to all sorts of problems. Well, they still do. I know. And even though we're in a generation where we talk about it all the time, men opening up, you know, I see that within my sort of extended family group and you know that the men often are still quite old school men who don't really want to reach out when they're, they're struggling. You kind of have to reach to them and say, are you okay? You know, this has been a really tough time. But no, yeah, hey, women, we've got it. We reach there. I am getting all emotional about something that happened a few years ago, but, oh, well, that's another story. So, yeah, so I'm, I'm glad to hear that you've got your, your ways of dealing when you do have stress and, and anxiety and things. Now, on a different note, today it was trending about William and Kate having their 10th anniversary, which is fabulous. They put out a beautiful, you know, anniversary shot. But when you look at 10 years ago, I was seeing the coverage of their wedding and everyone was so happy. A united family. And now we all know, of course, that, you know, William and Harry have had difficulties and I just think sometimes we can't see ahead and we don't realize that things within our families or friendship groups might change in a very profound way. And I just wondered if you can relate to that in any way. On our 10th anniversary, we renewed our vows. And what was lovely about it was that Kyla and Natalie could be my bridesmaids, which was. Oh, I love that. Wonderful, wonderful. I love the royal family. I am such a royalist. Our queen. What are we going to do when she goes? I mean, she can't. Don't even mention. Honestly, I adore her. And she is, she's. Oh, she really is. She really is. And I met Philip many times. I actually think that William, Diana obviously was an amazing woman. Obviously. And I think, yeah, I think everybody did. I think she was so wonderful. And I really, in my heart, I really hope that it was a hoax and that she's living on some lovely island with Dodie and she's really happy there and the kids know that. You know, I make up these stories in my head. It's all okay again, but, but I think William is amazing and I think he will be a fantastic king. I really do. I think he actually, possibly he and Kate are the glue that could hold this royal family together. I know there are, there are cracks that have appeared, but I I think they. They seem so stable that maybe with the Queen, you know, being as old as she is, I'm kind of disregarding Charlie in this, unfortunately, but I am. I hope he's not listening today, but I'm. I'm kind of. I think he's great as well. I do, I do. I love our royal family, but I actually think that the crux of the royal family now is William and Kate and that. That they will kind of pull through, pull the whole family through, hopefully. I think it's such a shame what's happened. It's. But it must be so difficult. Imagine being one of the royal family and being, you know, one of the most famous people in the world. You can't go anywhere. When you think of the pressure, when you. When you're facing family challenges, the pressure is enormous. And to. To think the whole world is watching makes it even worse. And it's incredible, though, when you just look back at the. Ten years ago, you think no one could have predicted where they'd all be now. When I just saw those pictures, I just thought how we are living. We are feeling our way into the future and we're trying our best, but you just don't know what's coming up. And it is food for thought and to think about relationships, I think, and making the most of your family and hoping that you don't have those kind of fallings out in the. In the future, you know, I'm living for the day. Carpe diem. We should live for the day. Because my. Yesterday I watched on. On line because I couldn't physically go. I watched the funeral of my cousin and she was in her mid-70s. Now I'm in. I'm 67. So she's only. She was only seen that way, but she's only eight. She was eight years older than me. I mean, that's terrifying. She didn't. She had a stroke. She didn't expect to have a stroke. It just happened. It could happen to any one of us at any time. Like being blown up in Afghanistan, you know, anything could happen to us at any time. And so we should. Absolutely. With our positive head on, we should live for the day. Enjoy your day. And every day we should wake up and say, I'm still here. I'm gonna have a great day today. Even if it's raining, I don't care. I know. I just. Gosh, I just think we're kindred spirits. Every morning I wake up and I. First thing I do is look at family videos because we all Post videos to each other on WhatsApp group. What we're all doing, you know, especially during, with the lockdowns we've had. And it just lifts me up. And I just think, oh, my God, there's so much love in my life that no matter what I'm doing today, it might have a heck of a day in front of me that always. And I, at nighttime when I go to bed, I meditate on the videos too, whatever new videos have come in. And I just think that way. It just gives you strength, doesn't it? I think so. I think so. Yeah, Absolutely. Now we only have time for one more quick trend. We only have a couple more minutes, then it's a very quick one. So the astronaut Michael Collins, who piloted the Apollo 11 command module as Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin actually touched down on the moon, walked on the moon has passed. And it made me think as a child for a little while. After seeing that, you know, that's one of my biggest memories, I might want to be an astronaut. I just wondered, can you imagine me total airhead at times, dyslexic. Imagine reading back to front, the reverse, the. You know, I'd be reversing the module instead of going forward. I just wonder if there's anything that you, as a child, besides obviously you're singing and wanting to be a performer early on, what would you have wanted to be? Was there any other time you thought, oh, I really want to be a doctor or something? No, I never wanted to be a doctor or a nurse or a teacher. I wanted to be an Olympic gold medal winning runner. Wow. That's what I wanted to be. Yeah. I love running. I loved sport so much and I wanted to join the Victoria Park Harriers, which was my local sports club. I, I wanted to win an Olympic gold medal for my, for my queen and country. Until I saw the Eurovision song contest in 1967 when Sandy Shaw won. And then I thought, if I win the Eurovision Song Contest, that's like winning an Olympic gold only for music. So I kind of did fulfill my second. Well, I definitely did fulfill my second ambition, but I'm still looking forward to winning my Olympic gold. Well, listen, I'm a runner. I love running. It's my favorite, you know, one of my favorite, you know, ways of keeping fit. But I never wanted to be in Olympic. I never worried about Olympic gold, so. But I like that. Well, listen, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on and I can't wait to see more news about the Fizz And I want to remind everybody that they can go to the fizzofficial.com your website is cherylbaker.net and on Twitter you're cherylbaker. And on Instagram, the Cheryl Baker. Thank you so much for it and spending extra time today since my, my, my other guest had a, had a family emergency so she couldn't make it. And it's so kind of you to say I can do extra. I've loved it. I enjoyed myself. Thank you, Pam. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. Lots of love. Bye. And that is the fabulous Cheryl Breaker. And now I have another fabulous guest. But first I want to do a shout out for the lovely Anna Kennedy who also does a show on the men's and women's radio station. It's a big shout out for the Step in the Right Direction Autism Dance Day. And you can check out Anna online at Twitter. She's Anna Kennedy and she's a pioneer in the autism community. So I know she mentioned to me that today is the Autism Dance Day. Now my next guest is a writer, author, pr. He has a column, Tales of the gay of a gay middle aged man without news global. You can find him on social media, on Twitter, he's SteveGlob to see. And on Instagram, he's Skeeve to see Underscore. And Stephen should be with me now, I hope. Hello, darling. I'm sorry, Cheryl is. What age? What is she taking? I almost fell off my chair years ago. I did a show with her called Natives for Getting Restless and I was doing makeovers and she has not aged one day so I don't know what the painting looks like. But she's. Well, thank you for joining me today. I'm loving that beard so. Well, with the lockdown beard, which I told you, don't get rid of it. I did it for a feature for a magazine. I've never had a beard. And funny if I tried to grow one for the November, the charity, and it just never happened. And so they said grow a beard and write a feature because it was becoming all the trend with all the different, you know, celebrities having beards, Colin Farrell and everything, I said, I'll give it a go. And it seemed to pop up from nowhere. I seem to literally wake up one morning and there it was and I was like, oh my God. And people told me it suited me. So I'm gonna keep it. Thank you. Because I must admit, I'm not mad on, on beards, but my, my eldest, he grew a beard and, and actually Suits him and it really suits you. So it's funny when you suddenly see that, actually it brings, I don't know, something out about you. It makes you look incredibly sophisticated, very James Bond. Do you like kissing boys with beards? That's probably the thing that I don't really like. It's, I'm not going to kiss you and I'm not going to kiss my son. So anymore. Now, you and I are going to tackle a couple really juicy topics. The first one comes up in my work quite frequently, and it's when someone will say to me, maybe someone I'm life coaching, and they'll say, I'm really concerned about my best friend. She seems to be drinking too much, she's been really stressed. Or they'll say something like, I'm really concerned about my sister. She's chosen a really dodgy guy to go out with. And how. And they say to me things like, how do I say that without them immediately shutting the door and going like, it's none of your business. And I just want to talk to you because you have such a massive black book, you know, everyone, you do, and you must have come across this where with all your friends, you know, reason I have a massive black book. I don't do stuff like that. There's these people that go forward and they say to you, let me tell you, Stephen, what you see is what you get. I say it as it is, and it's a code name for the word that begins with C. The reason I have friends is you need to be there to pick up the pieces with your friends. You're not there to give opinions. You're there. I think Shel just said it to listen, to be, listen and support. But however, there are ways around these things. For example, I would say to a friend who was drinking too much, right? God, you know, Pam, so funny, since I come out of lockdown, I've been drinking so much more. I can't believe it. You know, I'm thinking maybe next month I may cut out. Have you been drinking a bit more than usual? Yes. I love that approach. And if you said to me, it's a kind of a passive aggressive thing. If you said to me, no, then I wouldn't leave it because, you know, it could be you have addiction issues. You know, it's not more complicated. You mean there, there to love and support that friend? You know, I have friends, the partners, you know, I don't particularly like, but I never say a word. And when and if anything happens, I'll Be there for them. And I won't say at that point either. Well, I knew I could have told you that, because it's not healthy. You know, I. I want a terrible story. Years ago, a friend of mine, her husband was sleeping with another man. When I say sleeping, it was. He was a sex addict. Yeah, Right. I found new reason to tell this friend and rush up and be the bearer of bad news. They always shoot the messenger. But one day the phone went, and it was this friend, and she did, you know, And I went, well, yes. Why didn't you tell me? And I had to explain over two hours. He was a sex addict. It wasn't about. He still was in love with her. He needed help. And the. And they weren't running off into the distance. Of course, two hours later, the phone went again, and it was the friend that told her this story. I'm in the park about to kill myself. I should never have done that. I went, yes, you shouldn't have done that. There was no reason to do it. There was a long conversation, and you decided to make yourself center of attention. Now, before I comment on that beauty, tie says, stephen is fabulous and I love his beard. The beard fan club. Yeah. It's really interesting what you've raised about the cheating thing. And I had a friend whose partner cheated on them, and she discovered it. And I was really careful about what I said about him because I had a feeling they would work it out, they would get back together. And if I slagged him off and I said, oh, that dirty cheat. Oh, my gosh, you should never have been with him. I just held my tongue, listened as Cheryl said and as you said, listened to how she felt was there for her. And they did get back together. And I was so glad that I hadn't said, oh, well, he's not good enough for you. Whatever, whatever. Because people often get back together. They shoot the messenger every time. Yeah. It's a dysfunctional relationship where they get off on drama, then you're pulled into the drama, which is unhealthy for you. And there's so many relationships that I've seen, I think, oh, my God. But luckily, as I get older, I can spot them on my laugh. And then also, if I turned up into a restaurant one day and there's your lovely Nick sitting with a gorgeous blonde. Right. Obviously, I'm going to pop up and go, hi, Nick, this is a company there. Right. And then look over and holding hands. I think I'm not getting on the phone immediately to Dr. Patton. I've just seen it because it's none of my business, but, you know, if I could support the person, then I'm there totally. And that's where you're needed. And that's what. It's really interesting that you. What you're saying. And so often when I'm. When I'm coaching someone who's in this situation, we talk around the kind of scenarios that might happen if they approach that person. So if they tell that friend, I know your partner's cheating, or if they say to that friend, I think you're drinking too much. And we talk through every scenario. We talk through holding our tongues and just trying to be supportive. Or as you suggested, we talk through reflecting it back on us and saying something like, yeah, I've been drinking a lot lately. I've been so stressed. I really need to do something about it and hope that maybe they kind of then open up. So there are ways of being there for someone without directly targeting. We're British. We're not floating around in la. In la. LA land where we all open up and have group hugs. We don't die. I come from a family where, you know, we never talk about things, you know, it's just not done. And a great generation of people who don't talk about issues, and they do shoot the messenger when you open your mouth. And as I said, there's ways to be there for a friend and talk, but listening. And that's where people sometimes go to a therapist. They want someone to listen. Listen. Yeah, because often you go to a friend, you tell them your problem, and they can't wait to tell you about their problem. You suddenly realize you tell them and they relate back because they want it to be about themselves. But I say, over years, I found I've always just listened. And I mean, obviously, damage limitation. I may go up to someone and say, look, I've seen this, and they might go, oh, Stephen, we're swingers. Or look at me. I just think, you know, you have to be very careful and your life should be too busy anyway to get too involved in other people's business. See, now you personally. So let's say that you were with a boyfriend and then a friend saw him cheating on you. So you'd personally not want to be told. You'd want to discover it for yourself. I discover it myself. I think it's much easier doing that way because there's embarrassment about it as well. Or a friend rushing up to tell you, you know, if your life's in danger, it's different. But if it's just a case of seeing something, you just don't know. I mean, I've got one friend. Everyone hates a partner, right? But we never say a word. And, and because they're happy. Yeah, they're happy. And if you don't have to deal with their partner all the time, you can just deal with your friend, then, yeah, for them. And they say in life, if you say you're a friend so, so liberally used, you know, you're lucky if you have three friends in life, real friends, you have what I call interactive theater. People that come in and out and teach you things. But in life, when it comes to the crunch and something happens to you, who do you turn to? You know, all these people that say, I have 100 best friends. I think, bless you, no one has 100 best friends. I'm sitting there looking and thinking, no, you're not. These are wonderful people that are teaching you. A big believer. People come into your life to teach you something sometimes and then they leave and you've learned from it. And some lovers is essentially, you never see again the rest of your life. And other people are in your life the entire time. Yeah, it's. It's interesting. In America, we have that term body shifter. Your body shifter is the person you would call. Let's say you were a woman, you were sleeping with a married man, he had a heart attack on you in the hotel room, died. Your body shifter is the person you would call and go, help me shift the body. I don't want to be caught. You know, I don't want his wife to know we were cheating. Kind of, you know, a way of expressing that they are the person you can turn to in any crisis. You know, every time you turn up, you look at the situation and you get on with it. You don't look at how you move the body. You don't ask 200 questions. How did this come to? How did you know? You know, you're not feeding off the. The drama, the drama energy. Vampires, we just love a good drama like that. You're there in a crisis and after, you know, I had a recent situation happened with someone that I love to bits and they had a bad time in their life. And I reflected, I thought partly if it was about me and, you know, luckily we've resolved the situation. But there's a point where I just thought, you know, what have I done but investing in this friendship. But luckily, as I say, being an adult, though, it takes a long time to. I'm 60 this year. Sometimes still think I'm not. Oh, my God. I don't believe it for a minute. But I'm thinking. I'm thinking is it's quite nice to be able to reflect back. I can see situations before the. The unwind. Now I throw myself in without even looking back. In my 20s and 30s and someone's told me a really clever man said to me, people are never as good as you think they are or as bad as you think they are. That's very true. I've. I've heard that saying. It is very true. There's something else I want which kind of comes into this. And, you know, with dating now, I. Again, I hear from a lot of people with dating, yes, I was like, what's dating? I haven't done it. We need to find you a good man if you want one. You know, you might, you know, happy single. You know, a lot of singles I know are very happy, but a lot of dilemmas. I find that I get through to my website, say, and also in the date coaching I do is we had about three dates. I thought it was going well, but actually, you know, I'm not really that into them. Is it okay if I just text them or message them and say, thanks, but no thanks to seeing you again? Do I need to call them or can I get away with ghosting them? And I always say, no, don't ghost someone. I'm totally against leaving someone high and dry. Even if you've only had a couple dates, just politely say something now, what's your take on that, Stephen? Because you're on the dating scene. I'm not dating. You're on the dating scene. What do you feel? Do you feel a written message is good enough or do you think someone needs a phone call? I don't think it's really that dramatic. After three dates, I think it's fine just to send someone a message, say, hey, lovely, it was lovely to meet you. I don't think we're at the same position in life at the moment. You have to make it hugely dramatic. You know, you just say it doesn't work. And often I find that you've been on. When I was dating, you've gone a date, you've been on a few. You both know it's not working, so the energy's there. You say that. But I often hear from people say, oh, they're he or she is so keen, and I'm just not keen anymore. And kind of. And so they want to quickly stop it before the Person gets even more keen. But you're right. I mean, of course, a lot of times it is a mutual thing. A couple dates, you go, you know, when you find someone attractive you would like to go out with, right. And they don't find you attractive, it's not a reflection on you because they might like you say, say a guy doesn't like blondes, he really prefers brunettes, you know, it's not a reflection. You. Everyone has their type and I think people sometimes take it all so personally, don't they? I must have done something wrong. And as Madonna says, we concentrate on the one that got away rather than the one that we might have or get that we do get. Yeah, yeah, I'll say that. I think, I think we don't have to make it that complicated in life. You know, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And you, you know, let them find somebody else. See, I always say, I, I totally agree with that. I was wondering which way you've gone. That I, I think a nice pleasant message is enough. You don't have to over dramatize and make it into a phone call. But it's amazing how many singles are feeling this is an issue and it's got, call me again, I'll get my lawyers involved. Exactly. But the whole ghosting thing I think is a real problem for people's self esteem because that really knocks someone when, when they have a couple days with someone and then just don't hear, they get ghosted. Has that ever happened to you or have you, are you going to confess? Have you ever ghosted someone yourself? Yeah, sometimes I just don't want to speak to somebody. I have, I have in friendships. I have a couple of times with people that I find very toxic. And eventually they said something to me that's been the icing on the cake. And I just never blocked them everywhere, never spoken to them again. Yeah, that's a different thing. I'm thinking more of the dating. When you get ghosted, when you've been dating, do you think, what's your attitude towards that? Because I think it's really damaging. I don't think people should ghost each other. Well, I think if you're a grown up immature, then you would be do what we do is send a message and be adults about it. I do know when I was younger probably I just wouldn't attack calls. But it's quite immature because you're, you're sort of not dealing with it. And I think write a message to them is the best way. And I don't think ghosting and all this, these new words, it doesn't work sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And you know what I think when someone has been ghosted and I'm say talking to them about how they're feeling, I mean, I always point out if a person can't even just communicate a simple nicety, like, it was great to meet you, you know, as you said, but, you know, I think we'll leave it there. You know, if they can't do that, then they're not good relationship material anyway. So don't fret over the fact you've been ghosted. And I try and reassure people that if someone's ghosted you, they're not worth your time anyway. Amazing you're even having this conversation that the people have the energy in life to talk about being ghosting. It really hurts. A lot of singles just feel because people have read too much into it and it's not about them, you know, it's not about them, pal. It's about the person that ghosted them. You know, if they're reading that much into it, probably they have issues because if someone coming bonds are trying to call to me after a couple of times I think, oh, whatever, and go on with that, I certainly be sitting and thinking, what did I do wrong? Or you know, move on to the next person, likely much happier for you. Yeah, I'm glad. I mean, it's great. I mean, I, I kind of assumed you would be saying these things because I've known you a number of years now. No, I think you have a really kind of a good, kind of matter of fact attitude towards life and all the conversations we've had and I think that's a real positive, especially, you know, on the dating scene nowadays as it is with hundreds of apps and websites and you know, you've got so much choice and people do move on very quickly. What happened to going to the pub, giving a nice wink to someone, chatting to them and having dinner the next night and no, there's all these apps and things. It's quite terrifying. Yeah, no, I know, I know. I'm sort of glad I'm not dating right now. You're both a gorgeous couple. Thank you. I'll tell him you said that. Well, we're almost out of time and I want to thank you so much for coming. You're looking so well. Well, checks in the post. Listen, I, I, I want to flag up again your social media. We've only got a few seconds left. People can find you on Twitter and Instagram. A cup of tea with Steve on Night News Global interview. I've got Amanda Barry on tomorrow and I've got to say goodbye. Love you, darling. And talk to everybody. Next two weeks we'll have another show. And thank you for all your comments and joining in today. I really appreciate your positive attitude and thank you for the people who commented. Take care of yourselves.