Trending With Dr. Pam Spurr – Charlie King, Eleanor Conway, Helen Hnad

Hello and welcome. I'm Dr. Pam Spurr and you're here with me every fortnight on a Thursday and Friday with the men's radio station and the women's radio station. And we do trending with Dr. Pam. Not only do I have amazing guests, but we also look at some of the social media trends that the politicians and celebrities are setting, but we bring it back to what it means to our lives. Forget about them. Today, as always, I have some absolutely brilliant guests and I want to remind you that you can follow both the men's and the women's station on all social media platforms. My first guest is Charlie King, who first appeared on ITV's the Only Way Is Essex, a show which propelled its cast to tremendous opportunities. A decade later, Charlie's still going strong, evolving over the years from towie cast member to a fitness expert and regular columnist and in various publications. And with his expertise, you find him in outlets like itv, mtv, Attitude Magazine, GQ and more. Now, with a huge social media presence and a supportive fan base, Charlie's now added the world of fashion to his conquests, recently launching his brand by Charles King, which has a mantra of owning your crown and ruling your personal kingdom with with confidence. You can find him on Twitter arlieking85, Instagram is arlieking85, and his website is bycharlesking.com and I'm delighted that he's joining me now. Good afternoon, darling. Good afternoon. Pam, thank you for that introduction. I love that. Oh, thank you. I'm glad you like it. And I should have said you're also a great friend. Great friend. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure to see you and talk to you as always. Now, before we get into how you found your inner entrepreneur, I wanted to just ask generally, how are you doing? You're keeping up with your. Your training and your fitness and. Yeah, everything's going well. I'm finding the balance now. It was. It took a bit of adjusting, didn't it, coming out of lockdown and finding our flow again. Yes. And I was quite anxious about socializing and being in crowds, but I've just gone very slowly and I, I've been documenting it with my, my fans and followers actually. About just going at your own pace. Yes. And I wasn't in a huge rush to get back out there. As soon as they lifted things, I was quite happy just to ease myself back into it. But a few weeks in now and I'm. I'm going out for the odd dinners and I'm being a little bit more sociable and I'm feeling a bit more confident. So, yeah, I think when you and I met up and had lunch or drinks like a few weeks ago, that was both, for both of us, kind of the first big outing, you know, with the, with things. It was. Yeah, it was. And that was perfect because you were actually one of the last people I saw before we went into our first lockdown and you were the first person I saw as we came out of lockdown. There's something in that I've got to say. Beauty Ties has already said she's excited for today's show. Now, you and I, of course we know each other, so I know you had ideas for some sort of fashion range. And I want you just to tell people are listening what started this. I want the beginning of your journey. The beginning of the journey is obviously, as you said in the introduction, I've been around now for a good 10 years, which is crazy. And I've obviously been evolving as I go and I like to put my hand to many different things. And I've always wanted to explore the world of branding and I never really had the confidence. For whatever reason, I always thought that I don't know if I had it in me. And even though I've done business before and I'm quite a particular person, which I think is always a good attribute to have in business, I think I had a little bit of self doubt. Would I really be able to do it? So during the lockdown period, that's when it all started coming to fruition again because I was really reevaluating my life and thinking about where I want to see life go after, you know, once we start getting back to some kind of normality. And it really made sense that if I was ever going to try anything, the time is to to try it now and give it a go. And fashion clothing has always been something that's been in my mind to want to do. I've had friends that have launched lines in the past and I've seen how good fashion can make you feel. And I just thought, let me see if I can try a bit of that and give it a go now. You know, I've talked to other people, I mean, as a coach, who have started their own business and it's interesting. A common theme is get building that confidence. You start with the idea and then you think, do I have the confidence to actually make this happen? And I've never met someone who started their own business who didn't have that self doubt. And I think that's an important message for anyone listening who's been thinking about a business. It's okay to kind of doubt with your confidence if you can do it. Absolutely. I mean, I think you need that little bit of a slight nervousness or fear because then it really requires you to give it your absolute all. And I think what's even like if you're performing or when you're painting and you're exhibiting your work, there's always that element of nerve because you're putting your name to it and it's going to be a testimony to your craft or your talent or your skills and your vision. And that is always quite a vulnerable thing to do. And you never know if anyone's going to like it or, you know, if it's going to be successful or not. You've got to throw caution to the wind. Exactly. I totally agree with that. And with my own painting, which you kind of referred to the painting, you know, we're doing my first exhibition a year ago. It was a big deal, you know, because people could have reacted really badly and instead I got so much positive feedback. It kept me going. Absolutely. I know that over the months you've sent me various, you know, images saying, oh, I've been working on, you know, new design for my logo would be and that kind of thing. And that's really evolved. So again, I tell, tell me about that and how that evolved because I think that's really key for people listening. Yeah, I, I think, I mean I'm quite lucky. I've got a good surname and give one sec. Okay, he's obviously got someone at the door. Sorry. Yeah, there was a. We're getting so many deliveries at the door. Door. I had to just let the courier in. So sorry about that. This is life. That's how it is. This is how it goes when you're working from home. Sorry, the question was. Yeah, it's just been something that obviously I've got a good name, Charlie King and I've always wanted to use my surname into something again. And obviously King with the crown and obviously a big mantra of mine is about self love and just putting love out to the universe. And I just thought it was a great way to combine my name and also a message. And then obviously I started showing people like yourself and teasing it out and just seeing what the reaction would be. And I have to say the response was great people, I really like this. What is it? And then when I actually look launched what I was doing and said, this is what. It's what I've been working on. People have loved it and I'm wearing it today, as you can see. Exactly, exactly. So variations of it. And obviously the crown will always be where, you know, it's something that you'll hopefully symbolize with myself and connect me with the crown in time. That's the idea. Yeah. And also the heart about self, love and caring for yourself. Yes. It's great the way you've combined that. It's. That is the mantra. I think you said it in the. In the opening. It's like, I want people to feel confident. I want people to own their crown. I want people to just feel empowered when they wear it, no matter what. It's a. It's a brand that's totally inclusive. We touch on a little bit of everything for everyone, and hopefully it will grow and grow and we can only get better. That's the idea. Beauty tie says Charles is so inspiring and we wish him luck with his clothing line. Thank you. And I can't wait. I've just. I've just ordered one. A T shirt for my other half. I can't wait. It's on its way, I promise you. I'm literally sitting here now. That's why I had to get the door, because I was waiting on some. I'm trying to be as eco friendly as possible. I know. I want to talk about that too. Yeah, tell me more about that. So obviously with carbon footprint and making sure that we're all conscious of what we put out into the universe and waste and things like that, another big thing. I know there's a lot of talk about fast fashion and how fashion is such a huge contributor to carbon emissions and waste that I didn't just want to be yet another factor that adds to that. So even though I'm yet to launch more of an organic range, which is something that, again, I want to do very soon, I thought the best thing I can do is work on a model, which I only order what I need. I'm only going to use packaging that's biodegradable, even including the tape that I box things up in. We want to try and remove any plastic as much as possible. So there's no plastic going out. That's great. Amazing. Just trying to be conscious. And I think that that's something that we all have to do moving forward. This isn't just about making money. It's about a bigger thing. It's. It's a. This is why I'm calling it, like my kingdom. The Kingdom is an ideal kingdom, which is good for the planet, good for you. And ultimately people are going to just not feel like they're doing anything bad by having a part of it, if that makes sense. And it looks cool. I love your range. You know, you've got a great range. I'm waiting for the women's range. Will you do a women's range or coming. You're getting an exclusive today, actually, that my. The ladies stuff, which we've been working on with my designer. It's. It's literally been signed off and I'm waiting on the first drop of that and then I have to photograph it. Yeah, get it out there. And you will be rocking one next time I see you, I hope. Well, that's the thing, because again, for pretty much anyone starting a business, you forget there's elements like photographing your product, or even if it's not a product, you will still need promotional photographs of yourself. I mean, there's so many elements to think of. What has surprised you in this? What element? You go, oh, my gosh. Yeah, I have to do that. You know, I mean, there is just so much work that I didn't really factor in. I mean, it's quite a big project when you're trying to get this brand off the ground. So you've got to factor in everything because obviously you can't please everyone and it's something that you've got to get the balance right. So I've looked at this brand and thought, how can I create something which is eco friendly, which is one of my biggest priorities as a brand owner? And then when I think about the people that are going to be wearing the brand and the community that I'm part of and the things that I'm associated with, I'm just trying to touch on everything. But because I'm such a thorough person and I do everything, so, you know, wholeheartedly, I've got to make sure that I don't spread myself too thin. That's the only risk because obviously you can't please everyone and you can't do everything in the initial stage. It takes time, of course. Beauty Ties has said. How exciting. Can't wait to see the women's clothing to drop. Yeah. Yes. It's coming very soon. In fact, talking about eco friendly things, I think you were the one, the friend of mine that I embarrassed in a. In a Soho club once by complaining to the manager about their plastic straws. Correct. Was it you with me? I'm sure, absolutely. We were very disappointed, weren't we. And they now only do the biodegradable. Yeah, but because. Well, I was gonna say what I used to do with the plastic straw because I've got really sensitive teeth and if I buy really hot coffee, I would carry one around for like five years and just wash it. But now of course, we have the biodegradable. But in places like a restaurant, they would just chuck. I don't know how many straws they would go through. And of course they can't rewash them like I can with my personal plastic straw that we don't want any plastic in this brand. And this is something that I'm. We're very, very conscious of. We don't want anything like that. I don't want people just receiving a T shirt in a bit of a plastic sleeve. And then it's like, you know, we're taking real time and attention. I'm doing it with just me and my little team. We're purposely doing it and we're being as eco friendly as possible. I absolutely love that. And one thing, one bugbear of mine is the plastic that flowers come in. Correct. Drives me nuts. Why? You know, people send me a bouquet of flowers. For some reason I'm like, oh God, just can't you order it without the plastic or something? It's not necessary. So, yeah, we're on it. We're very aware by Charles King about that. Yes. And so tell me, with all that's going on, is there has there been a point in the process where you've had to kind of pivot your ideas and go. I was going that route, but actually I'm going to go this route because again, this is something that small business people have told me and you know, creating and they've. Or have you. Has it been a quite smooth journey where you haven't had to do any major pivoting, changing directions? I think the initial vision has changed because originally I just said to a good friend of mine who worked in fashion for many years, I just want to try this and give it a go in something quite small, which was pretty much just one T shirt. And I had a couple of ideas, but I didn't really know how to execute it. And something has built. I've actually built a brand which I wasn't necessarily thinking of at the beginning. It was more just a. Let's just see if people might buy something that I would put out there. So obviously with that has become a whole bigger vision and it's just meant a lot more adapting to things and Factoring in so many different things that I didn't really initially think about. But I'm quite good when it comes to that. And I think that goes back to my original business acumen, working with good people and trusting myself that because the attention to detail is something that I'm good at, I know that I will do everything properly. And I'm just, as I said earlier, I just got to try and keep a little bit of a level on it, that it's a business as well. And I've got to be sensible and we've got to do things when the timing's right and I can't really run before I'm walking. We're off to an amazing start. And that's. I'm blown away. Like, we're sending packages to Australia, New York, Boston, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, and it's just going on like. And I. I can't believe it. I'm so happy for you. I cannot tell you. I just. Thank you all your. I just know how much and it's interesting. I. I think I can say this because you've been on the show talking about before, but you keep saying your attention to detail. And I know on the show before you've talked about, we've touched on overthinking. Yes, I think this is where you and I both have a tendency to overthink things, but that's kind of where, as you say, your attention to detail almost springs from that aspect of your personality. And I often tell overthinkers sometimes it's a really good quality to have. Maybe not in the middle of the night when you're fretting about something at 2am during the day and, and you keep referencing the details that are important to you. They are. Because I think it's. It's those things that make a huge difference to why people are successful or what can separate you from. There's so much out there. Pan. This is one thing I've realized. If you look at how many fast fashion businesses are out there or fitness stars that are trying to all make money selling fitness programs, you've got to think, what can I do that's unique? Because I am unique. And everything I do will be a different service that someone else will get from using another company or another person. So this one thing that's made me realize in this first few weeks of it being out there is I have to trust myself because I'm obviously doing something right to get this initial outpouring of support and massive response. I'm sitting here today packaging things up. And I will be going to the post office after this chat with you to send a load of more stuff off and it's been great for my confidence, truly. Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that. And I hope anybody listening who has an idea for a business. Will, will, will. Will pay attention to what you've said. And this whole process that you know that you not having huge confidence at the beginning, you know, letting it evolve, being willing to change things like the imagery you originally sent me and, and it allowing it to morph into something new, all those things are really key. Any other tip before we get on to the trends we're going to chat about? Any other tip you might give people who have a business idea? I just think if you've got an idea, one thing I've realized is life's too short not to give it a try and as long as it's not going to be maybe too risky or you need to weigh it up. So I found in this process of just putting everything out there, I'm a real paper and pen kind of guy. I'm not so techy as, you know, like me, I'm not so turkey, I'm a dinosaur with it all. So I literally like to just put it all out there and then either float it by people that I trust and I'm close to or actually just see if I can see it through. Obviously I didn't want to start throwing loads of money away at things. It's been a difficult time for everyone to keep above, you know, board financially. But if it looked like it was feasible and possible once I looked at it all on black and white, then I knew I could go to the next stage. So anyone that's thinking of something, just put it all down on paper and look at the logistics, look how feasible it is, look, look how possible it could be at this time and see if you can then go to the next step. It's all about stages and bringing it back to well being. You've already highlighted. My last question to you was going to be but you've kind of highlighted it how going through these steps even when you had to change things has boosted your confidence and self belief. I really do believe this sort of progress and journey does that for people, doesn't it? It does and I think it's really great for the human spirit to have obstacles or changes and things that you don't necessarily expect. Something can start one way and then go totally another, but it's again going back to trusting the process and Trusting your instinct and being open to change. And that's sometimes how the greatest stories can evolve or the greatest journeys can begin. Well, I'm just going to flag up your website right now before we go on to the trends, it's bycharlesking.com. can I just quick ask, why did you choose Charles over Charlie? I love both names. I'm not having a dig. I'm just. I mean, people don't really know me by Charles. And as you said at the beginning, it's ten. Ten years since I started this whole media career and to some people that are very close to me, they call me Charles. I know one that you've mentioned before. Yeah. And. And I actually, I. I like the name and I think that this is a slight different side. To me, it's more of a business side and I'm obviously getting older and my mom used to always say to me, I hope one day you use your name Charles. Charles King. And this felt like the perfect time to start factoring it in. It's like my JLo. You know, you've got Jennifer Lopez and then you've got JLo. Yeah. Charlie's the fitness guy and the TV guy. Charles King is my fashion empire. I love it. I love it. And long may you reign. Now we're going to move on to the trends. There are quite a few. So many political trends right now. What were the G7? But first off, Noel Gallagher was trending number one spot, talking about how Oasis breaking up was the right thing to do when they were kind of still doing really well. And I had to agree that with that sentiment, sometimes in life things should end when they're going kind of well. And personally speaking, I know I've worked for a number of radio stations, and one radio station I chose to leave when I was at a high because I had new opportunities and I couldn't do both. And it was kind of people saying to me, why are you leaving that slot? Why are you leaving that? You know, it's such a great show, blah, blah, blah. But for me, it was the right time. And I just wonder, talking about that whole thing, I don't know for you if there's ever been a right time for you to leave something behind. Course, or just generally thinking about that. I think you've got a. Especially when I was doing the Only Ways Essex, I did that show for a couple of years and I was on this hamster wheel of going around and around, and it's a very repetitive cycle and you're obviously only as good as storylines and being involved in other people's lives and whatever. And when it came to the point of, I've been doing it for a couple of years, the show was still pretty big, but I had to weigh up. How far did I have to go on it? What else could I bring? And was this the time that I was on a high? It had been a really positive experience, but I think it had served me well for that period. So instead of trying to cling on for dear life and maybe lose sight of myself, trying to do things that I wouldn't normally do, I had made that decision that it was time to leave it there and just go and try other things. So I think with, with what you've said and what Noel Gallagher's saying is that things can organically come to that climax, can't it? To where you decide, all right, do we try and ride this wave a little bit longer? Or even if we're questioning should we ride this wave a little bit longer than that in itself is saying that this might be the time to, to bow out? Yeah, yeah. And I. In terms of, like, relationships, I think this was thinking about this whole concept of, of leaving something when it's at its peak or doing well or something. And I think the one area it doesn't apply to is relationships, because if a relationship is going well, you treasure that. But I think sometimes with the relationships, they've gone past their sell by date. And of course, in my work, I get people saying to me, I don't know what to do, I don't know whether to leave or stay. How do you feel about that aspect of things? You know, do you think there's a way sometimes of telling when a relationship just isn't good enough anymore? I mean, yeah, you know me with relationships is I'm quite inexperienced still because I've only ever had the one proper full term relationship. But as we know, and you've told me this many times, relationships are this wave of the ups and the downs. And I would like to think if you're in a committed relationship, you're going to take the highs and the lows and it will. Exactly. It might drop and then it might peak again and it might go, you know, on steroids and then it might really go down, down, down, who knows? But I think you've got to get to that thing of is, is the bad outweighing the good? Am I thinking about another life away from this more than I am totally invested into this relationship? Has it, does it make me happy? Anymore, Am I happy? Is it the relationship that's affecting my happiness? And I think that they're the. They're the hard questions that you have to, you know, either look inwards and try and find the answers or speak to your partner at that time and see where this is going. But one would say, if you're at that point of questioning, is this for me anymore, or have we come to the end of the road? That. That's in itself a very critical moment with where you go moving forward. You see, I've always said to you, you should be a life coach. Because if someone asked me that question, you've just practically given the answer I would have given. You know, there you go. You influenced me. No. Once you have by Charles King, all sorted and running your empire, you can then do coaching and psychology from the beach house in Ibiza. Love it. I want to go there now. The next trend I want to flag up was how the Duke of Edinburgh has just had this rose named for him. The Duke of Edinburgh. And he would have been celebrating his 100th birthday now. And all the media coverage is all about, you know, isn't this an incredible way of kind of for the Queen to celebrate his life? And, Charlie, I think that we don't talk enough about these things. And I'm. When I coach someone who is going through mourning and grief, I often say, let's also look at how to celebrate this person. What's an unusual way to celebrate someone? With my mother, my late mother, she was a big traveler. She traveled the world. But one place she always said she wanted to go to was Lake Titicaca in Peru. So I had a pair of her socks that I saved and I walked around part of. We went to Peru. We went to, you know, see all the fantastic ruins and temples. And we went to Lake Titicaca, and I had her socks on when I walked around the lake and was on the lake. It's a huge lake, huge lake. And I just thought of my mom and I thought, mom, I'm walking this for you, you know, so have you ever celebrated someone's life in an unusual way? Because I would love people to think about these things, to be honest. I haven't, because, I mean, touch wood, I haven't really, apart from just my dogs. So, I mean, they're my family. But I have my dog's initials. Where are they? They're tattooed on me somewhere here. I love it anyway. And that was my little thing of remembering them. And I always look at my. My wrist and think of them. But with regards to. I think you're totally right, though, the celebrity, the celebration aspect, or doing something which is gonna make you remember things in a different way or give you a different sense of feeling when you're doing something. I think it will keep the spirit alive more. And I think it's a very warming, positive approach. To what? When you've lost someone because you're doing something that you know that person is going to love or something that they would have enjoyed to do. And it just gives a whole new meaning of memory and association. I think that's so true. And I. And I just think it helps people who have lost something. Now, the last trend, I wanted to run past you names, and we were talking about Charles King versus Charlie King. Lily Betty has been trending, of course, with Harry and Meghan calling their new daughter Lily. Bet. Yes. It's all in a name. Now, I know I told you that I have a name that I associate very negatively with. And it kind of triggers me. And I'll tell you. I'll tell you that. Tell everybody listening that in a moment. But do you have any names that trigger you either way? Either you love that name or you hate that name because it reminds you of someone. Had a negative impact. Yeah, I think mine is Chuck. Oh, so. Which is short for Charlie, even. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nickname for Charlie. But only in a way of. It makes me sad just because actually it's. It's just a time and an association with someone that is not in my life anymore. So when I hear it, I get this because, you know, I'm quite a. I hold onto things. I'm quite sentimental and nostalgic. When I hear that or someone feels like they can call me that, I have to say, oh, no, don't call me that. That's okay. Just because it takes me to a time which I'd rather forget and the person I'd rather forget, truthfully, it's quite triggering. And I'm triggered by the name Maya. M a Y A Because I once, as a Young psychologist, like 20 years ago, I worked with someone. I don't really care if she hears this. Who was actually so mean and spiteful of a person that I. Now, if I meet someone named Maya, I almost immediately just almost physically kind of tense up because of the. The triggering aspect of it. Triggering. I get it. But otherwise, that's the only name I have a bad trigger with. Yeah, I don't really trigger to be apart from Chuck. Okay, well, I'll never use that name around you don't introduce me to anyone named Maya. Listen, Charlie, it's been amazing talking to you. We've run out of time, but just. And to give that the all important website is bycharlesking.com. yes. Love it. I love that photo too. Lots of love, darling. Thank you for coming on. See you soon. Bye. Take care. Bye. Bye. Thank you, Charlie. And so excited for my next guest. Now she's a multi award winning comedian. She has quite filthy and hilarious shows about dating, sex and addiction. Her honesty is moving. It's funny, it's incredible. You'll recognize her from a wealth of media appearances and you can find her on social media. Leanor Conway and her site is eleanor Conway.com. and I'm delighted that Eleanor is going to be joining me right now. Hello, gorgeous. Hello, mate. How are you? Dr. Pam, can you hear me okay? I'm fine. And you don't have to call me Dr. Pam. You can call me Pam. We know each other enough that you can do that. No, but I love calling you Dr. Pam because I feel like that doctorate was well earned and I just love the fact that you are a strong, smart woman as a doctor. I just love it. How are you? All right. I'm really well. I'm so happy to see you and I'm just so sad that I haven't been able to see your show since I saw one, you know, like almost two years ago in Edinburgh, you know, because last, last year's festival was canceled and my God, do you control audience? You know, you've got that chemistry and power in live performance. Was that always with you? Because when I just talked to you like when I did your podcast, you don't, you know, you know, you're not commanding a stage, but to command a stage like that takes a lot of guts. I really don't know. I feel like I've always had a big personality and oh, I can hear a little bit of feedback. I've had a little bit. I've got, I feel like I've got quite a big personality and just being, I don't know, I just feel really comfortable on stage and I've always been on stage probably for about 20 years in one form of another. Like I've done like hosting and all that sort of stuff, presenting and stuff like that. It just, I just feel alive and at my most comfortable when I have that outlet and if I don't, then I feel very, very like a kind of anxiety and I'm bouncing. I'm much more quiet in my real life. Now that I have the outlet of being on stage. And, yeah, I'm kind of like an introvert, extrovert. But, yeah, I know. That makes sense to me. I know a lot of performers who are. Who are kind of like that, you know, they have both aspects to their character, and it's great that they can express both by being commanding on stage and maybe quieter at times in their personal life. But, of course, your personal life you flag up massively. The honesty is incredible. One thing I was struck when I saw your live show was your jokes about dating. And, you know, people really responded well to, you know, the scenarios you would paint. Tell me about that. Look, so, you know, I mean, as you. As you and I have spoken about before, I mean, I'm in. I'm in recovery. I got sober in 2016. And so part of that personal journey was being honest and kind of being honest to another person about the stuff that I never thought I would tell. The shame, you know, and, you know, that experience of getting sober in that process, it's. It's made me fearless in a way that. Yeah, like, really, really fearless. And I still hang on to bits of shame. But actually, it's actually the stuff that people connect with the most. So I've done stuff around, you know, physical abuse, you know, obviously the addiction stuff, a little bit of, like, sugar babying, which I experimented with, you know, before I got sober. And those are all things that I really, you know, I felt a lot of shame around the abuse and. And I felt shame around the SW Stuff, like the next one. So, I mean. I mean, to be honest, I. It does sound like, more grand than it is. Like, I, like, more like. Like, I just dabbled. I was the worst. The worst in the world. Like. Yeah, yeah, I was the worst one. So it's not like I'm some, like. Yeah. And then, you know, like, I'm not this big wig. I just sort of dip in and I go, oh, yeah, I don't like that. And then I bugger off again. But anybody listening who doesn't know about sugar babying, of course there's different types. There's where young women will just put a wish list out somewhere, and older men will kind of chat them up and buy them, you know, what's on their wish list. And then there's kind of more on your arm, almost kind of, I guess, escorting type. Sugar babies. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think women dress it up as, like, he's just my boyfriend, and we have. He gives me an allowance, which is sex Work. But I love that. Yeah, it's just a real sort of gray shape then, you know, then maybe someone will be like, well, I'm doing it for free, why not? But you know, do you know what I mean? It is what it is. And I think that that sort of thing was glorified especially you know, maybe like eight, 10 years ago with Billy Piper on ITV, sort of like doing her thing on Belle de Jour's the Belle de Shore and it secretary of a call girl. But yeah, I wasn't very good at it. Why? Because you couldn't play along if you had a really boring date and you just could not laugh at his bad jokes or something. I just, I, I actually think there's a lot more to it. There's a lot more skill involved because I was having casual sex. So I think part of me thought, well, I'm having casual sex and not getting satisfied, I might as well charge for it. And to be honest, I like, like asking for money. Like a lot of the time I wouldn't ask for money. So it wasn't really a sugar baby situation. It was just me having, having sex with someone that I didn't really like. It was, I wasn't very good at the business part of it and I wasn't very good at the sort of like cordoning off intimacy. You have to be a lot more, you have to, you have to give them emotional intimacy. I just thought I could have a one night stand and be like, I'll have a grand and a half now, please. It's much more complex than that. Exactly. That's why I think a lot of people don't, they can think sugar baby. Well, what's that? I've heard about just sex workers, but not sugar baby beauty ties says we've now added Eleanor on Twitter. She's honest and funny. It's great. She knows who she is. Love that. And so people reacted really well. I think a lot of people identified with some of that part of that routine where it's kind of like, you know, you're having bad sex, so why aren't you getting something out of it? You know, of course, me in my work, I'd say, well, ask for better sex. And that's, that's where I am right now. Yeah, I mean I have, yeah, I've done a lot of thinking about this. I think, I don't know, I think I thought for the long time, like, well, I can't get this romantic relationship and why can't I get the sex that I want? But I think I agree with you. I am probably in a place where I'm able to ask for. For better, for better, for better sex. And, and actually, I would say that if I'm not meeting someone, it's probably because I don't want to meet someone. Fundamentally. Yeah. And that's the right attitude. Absolutely. Rather than people who come to me for date coaching saying I'm not meeting them when it's all down to me, it's all my problem. But no, no, a lot of the time it's timing or they're not right for you or whatever it is. You know, Also, you know, I don't think we're meant to be searching on a minute by minute basis. I don't. I think these apps are very addictive and they've conditioned us to think that we should be on the hunt all the time. But in the, in the 90s, we didn't do that, did we, Pam? Yeah, I'm trying to think because it was in the mid-90s when I met my. My second husband, who I'm still with. Yay. Trying to think back to that time now. You're also incredibly honest about the addiction side of things. And again, it resonated. People are thinking comedy addiction, but the way you, you know, I'm trying to think of the right word, but the way you did it with warmth and humor makes a very painful topic for many people actually more understanding. I think if that's the way I can put it, they can kind of go, gosh, I kind of identify with that. So what sort of response do you get when you talk about addiction on stage? I mean, I'm talking about the response I saw, but you might, you know, maybe you get other responses. Well, look, because. Because I've been through that process, I. I'm like, I'm just really. I'm just really blunt. I'm not very good at sort of like dancing around the pole a little bit. And I think, I think, I think it's very rare that women will a talk about sex in a, like, in the way that I talk about it. I hope, I hope it's like, in, like, it's. I think this, you know, if we could release the shame that women have about the dirty parts of their lives, whether it be addiction or money or whatever it is, then we're gonna have a, like a nation of happier women. And it's good. But yeah, like, I've only been met with really real, real warmth and the shame that I. And also, let's be real man, waking up in your own pee. That's really funny. Yes. Yeah, I can remember that routine. Yes, Just really funny. I mean, yeah, in a certain way. In a dark way. Yes, yes. But still, people go, yeah, I mean, I have been that drunk before. And you can see people just identifying and thinking, yeah, you know, and. Or there for the grace of God. One more step in that direction, and maybe I too would have a problem with addiction. And I think it's really important. There's worthy ways of talking about addiction, but in a comedy routine, there are ways that also connect. That's the key thing when you want people to maybe kind of think about the choices they make and whether they're on the precipice or maybe they are in addiction, but don't realize it until they hear these things. So I don't think you probably ever thought that your comedy would be so worthy, but yes, well, it's a funny one. Women and alcoholism is, you know, if you think back to the days of the. Was it the Girly show and all of that sort of era of the loaded mags and all that stuff, that Ladakh culture, the way that we talk about women and booze, it's. We don't take it seriously, is when men have an alcohol problem, like with women, we're like, yeah, wine o', clock, Mom's having a bottle of wine. That's alcoholic. Like, that's alcoholism. No, I agree. Absolutely. And I remember the Girly Sarah Cox and that crew who were doing all the Girlie show stuff, the Ladette stuff. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. But women kind of almost had to go there, didn't they, to kind of claim the fact that they could do what men do. But some, you know, you run into problems sometimes when you decide you're going to conquer the world by drinking all the time. Something I really. We only have like a few more minutes and I really want to talk to you about this. Being child free, which has come into your shows and into what you talk about. Did you actively make a choice that you never wanted children or did you think about it and kind of gone back and forth on that? I will. Look, I. I knew that I probably didn't want kids when I was about 8, 7 or 8 or 9. And it's something that I think about consistently and update my, my operating system about. And I always check in and kind of go, do I? No, I still don't want them. That's fine. But yeah, it's pretty much. I just don't think it's, for me I saw my mum raise three kids on her own. I don't trust myself to have a relationship with a man because I, for long enough to raise kids and I, I just don't think I'm very good at that. And so I, I, I know that I'd end up being a single mom. I'm so bad at relationships. Like, I was a single mom for a few years. Yeah, it's difficult. It's really difficult. It's tough. It's tough. And I was very young because I'd had my first when I was at uni and, and, and the second straight after uni and a young mum, young marriage, young divorce. It was tough. I would, My hat goes off to single moms. But what I'm interested with you is I wrote an article a couple years ago about reproductive harassment, what I named because so many people I coach who've either made the choice not to have children or can't have children or haven't found the right person to have children, get pressure from family, friends. How do you deal with that pressure? Because I can't imagine some people don't question. I don't get family. No, I don't get any, I don't get any pressure. I think everybody's like, she's not having kids. But my family, my family are very, like, they're really cool. Like, they're cool. My brother and sister have got kids and, and like my mum's, My mum knows I'm not having kids and she's always known I've not had, I didn't want. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Experience. So many people tell me that they, Whenever I go home, my mum says, when are you guys going to have. My mum's harassing other people to have children. I mean, that's like her. Well, I'm glad you haven't had that issue because I, I'm, I'm really surprised about that because it, it is something that's cropped up repeatedly in my, in my work. Even with me when I married for a second time. People would say, oh, well, now you're going to have kids with him, aren't you? No, I didn't want any more kids, you know, and there was a lot of pressure from, so even I've experienced in, in a different sort of angle from what we're talking with you. Yeah, I mean, I do think there's a pressure if you are with the second husband at, to have children and like, I've seen it, like, just to. Because in order to keep him There you have to have his kids sort of thing. Does that make sense? Because he's already helping someone else's kids grow up. Do you know what I mean? There is. It's like you people then say, don't you have to cement your relationship? I'm thinking, well, if you can't cement your relationship anyway, why are you bringing them in as a step parent to your children? You know, I just don't believe you should cement a relationship like that. Bringing even more to. In the mix just to satisfy some cultural thing that, oh, every marriage has to have children. No, no. Do you know what the biggest, the biggest abuse I get is from people on TikTok or on socials? Like just want to have the audacity to be happy with my life and do videos about it. No, that's fine. I don't mind. But it's always from men. It's never really for. It's never from women, actually. Good. Women are like, yeah, I feel you. Like, I love my children. But. But it is, it is off. I, I think men are slightly threatened by women not wanting it because, you know, it's like, oh, well, who's gonna, who's gonna love you? Who's gonna have. Who you can have a relationship with? What? You know, this idea that women's value comes from getting married and having children. I think some men are a little bit, bit threatened by it. Not all. Not all men. Yeah. No, no, I think that must be very true. Absolutely. Now we've run out of time. It's been amazing talking to you. Please tell me people can go to your website, which is eleanor conway.com or do you have any upcoming shows, any online things? Oh, no. Well, at the moment I'm on Tick Tock, so I'm trying to like get my followers up on that first, to be honest. So I'm on Tick Tock at Elena Conway, but I've got some shows in Brighton this week and this weekend. That's the full word. And London? Oh, they're in Brighton at the Walrus. It's part of Brighton fringe. But you can get tickets on my website and then I'm doing a show on 12 August in London. I haven't quite sorted that out. Oh, wow. Maybe I can make that 12th of August. Just ping me the details and I'll get tickets. Listen, lots of love to you, darling. Let me just give that out that website again. It's@eleanor Conway.com on social media at Eleanor Conway. Thank you so much. Lots of love to you, darling. I love you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Oh, now, next. Oh, my gosh. As if I haven't had two amazing guests already, I have another amazing guest. She is a makeup artist to celebrities including Lorraine Ranveer Singh, Christine Lampard and so many other major TV stars. She's provided content to major players like BT and various books where they've needed a quality makeup artist. And I love it when she does my makeup on social media. She's Helen Handmakeup and I think she is joining me right now. Hello, gorgeous. You are, you're back in time because of course you've been filming with one of the ITV stars today and making sure they look amazing. I have. I worked on the Rain show this morning and then we went on to another show. So I'm literally in the door. Oh, fantastic. I'm so glad you can join me because, Helen, I've got so much to ask you. First off, you are so talented as a makeup artist. My face is not easy to do and whenever you do it, you make me look so much better. I've got little picky eyes and you make them pop out and. And yeah, I just, I just love it. Now, did you always want to do makeup or was it. Yeah, okay. Actually, it was Wonder Woman first. When I believed Wonder Woman was real, I used to jump off the sofa and spin round. But after that it was makeup, beauty, hair. I think when I was really small, I used to gravitate to really beautiful women. When I say beautiful women, made up women. So my aunties would walk in and I would just follow them around the room. And I probably didn't understand what it meant to give confidence to people. But my aunts walking in and friends of my mum and my mum walking in with their makeup, they just oozed a certain confidence walking into the room with their hair immaculate, their makeup, their clothes were great. So it's all that kind of 80 Dallas look back then. So in my head I was like, I want to do that when I'm a grown up and paint faces and do hair, big hair. So, yeah, it's all I really wanted to do. Beauty, hair. I used to grab anyone who came in the house and start playing with their hair as a six year old even. So, yeah, amazing that it started that young and you actually went on to do it. So many children have dreams as a child and then they do something completely different. Beauty Toys has just said, what color of lipstick are you wearing, Helen? It's so pretty. Oh. I can tell you that right now. It's she's got her bag of magic and got my bag of magic. Because I had to do my makeup in the car without a mirror. I was praying I looked okay. It's an Yves Saint Laurent lipstick, and I will make sure you do the right color, but I will get the color. But also a Pat McGrath lip gloss. That's kind of. It's got my lip color on it now, but it's kind of no color. I know that kind of almost nudie color. Yeah, yeah. And now, what about, you know, when you get someone in your chair, giving them confidence? I, I, funny enough, you and I were introduced by a mutual friend. I was trying to work it out maybe 16, 17 years ago, before you actually then did my makeup. So I first met you before I sat in your chair at, you know, daybreak or whatever. Gmt. Gmtv. Yeah. Now, when you get someone, I can remember the first time you did my makeup, and it must happen with. With big stars. They changed the brief, and I sat in your chair, and I said to you, oh, my gosh, they've asked me to talk about, like, something else. And I was a bag of nerves going, oh, my gosh, I have no time to think. And you were like, you had such calming influence. So it's almost part of your job to kind of give a holistic sort of feeling to your clients, isn't it? Yes. How do you do that when someone is sitting there really nervous when Piers Morgan is in your chair when he used to be, you know, if you've ever done to work with. Thank you. He's an absolute dream to work with, honestly. He used to make my mornings when I worked at gmb. He's great. He's enjoyable and fun, definitely in the makeup room, But I think people confuse makeup and think it's just all about makeup. But I think 20% of my job is the makeup, and 80% is who you are, your character, how you can calm someone. And it's about your personality. And I remember when I went for my interview at Brushstrokes, where I trained in Shepparton Film Studios many moons ago, they actually said that to me. It's, you will get work depending on your personality. Your personality plays such a big part of your job more so than the makeup. So I think I have naturally got a calming personality. So people tell me my parents wouldn't agree. But definitely you do. Definitely. So, yeah, you've kind of got to know people straight away from the moment you see them at the door. But also when you work in telly, you get scripts in the morning and the call sheets. So you get the person, the guest that's going on and you get their story so you know you don't want to be. I'm lucky enough to work with really big stars, famous people, if you like stars, celebrities, but also someone just like coming in like me, who have to give it an interview. You've got professional people, celebrity, you've got actresses and you've got the man next door to you or some tragic story how someone's lost their child. So you get the call sheet and you have the story of the guest on the call sheet. So that kind of gives you what sort of mood maybe a person will be in and what sort of makeup to give them. Because if someone's just lost a child, you're not going to do a full blown smoky glamour makeup on them. Because also people are not going to take that person seriously. Maybe they're not going to take them seriously. Look at them as though they're grieving, etc when they're on screen. If you have all this makeup because that kind of takes over everything. It's so interesting. So just a quick comment again from Beauty Time says, thank you, sweetie. Such a gorgeous look for your lipstick. Thank you. Now, because that's what I wanted to get to about well being and makeup. Because when you have people who've had a tragedy in your chair and they've been asked by one of the biggest TV shows in the country to come and talk about it, what you do with them can kind of slightly, you know, send how they feel one way or the other. So you're trying to give them a sense of well being, that it's going to be okay. And makeup plays that part in it, doesn't it? Yes, it does. It's that one time before you go on telly as well. But I say it's their moment to just calm and chill. So you don't want to be overly loud or powerful. It's all about calming and talking to them. And if they do feel nervous, you kind of build that relationship up within minutes that they talk about it and you calm them down. Yes. Now, I once worked with a, I was coaching a client on their confidence who'd had a burn, a bad burn, facial scarring. And she told me that the woman who helped her to cover it and make her feel that it was almost, you know, almost back to how she had been, it changed her life radically. So when you work with someone with scarring, something like that. Tell me about that. You know how it makes can help. Well, definitely can help. I mean, for me, with my skin, for instance, when I was 70, 17, not 70, not there yet 17, I developed acne. And I had acne literally from here down to about there. And they were lumps and boils. And unfortunately for me, I couldn't wear makeup all the time. And I was a beauty therapist and I had to go to work with red spot. I don't even like saying spots or boils because it turns my stomach. Thinking back about it. I can't even use certain products because of the smell of them reminds me of it. But having scars is the same thing as in you walk into a room when you haven't covered it and you're exposed. And that is a big word, really, you do feel exposed and you end up walking around like that. Yes. What I did, I used to go around looking like Neil from the Young Ones. Hiding your face. Yeah, hiding my face. And then once you put your makeup on and if you can cover it correctly, it just, it's like character building. You become someone else, you know, and you kind of forget for that moment that you have that problem, which is a problem to you, not anyone else. So, yeah, it does give you that little bit of self esteem and confidence when you do put that bit of makeup on to cover and camouflage. Because it really does affect people when they have something on their face. And now, what with all the tutorials, people are completely changing their face. Like years ago, if someone didn't like their nose, they'd save up loads of money and have a nose job if they were fortunate enough to do it. Now they just camouflage it. Yeah, See, that's the tricks, you know, if someone feels that they want to, you know, highlight, I guess. Do you highlight? Let's take a friend of mine who struggles. She's always felt she has a large. Too large nose for her face. I don't think so. No one else thinks so, but she does. But she's learned with makeup, she highlights more, draws people away from it with, you know, really nicely done blusher and strong lips, strong eyes, I guess just those little tricks. And she feels great when she goes out because she's learned these tricks not through me, but through another makeup artist. Yes. Actually say to people, the key to makeup for you. Because for me, it's not just a fashion thing. I always say to women or anyone, a man, if they want to wear makeup, look at your face first before you go out and buy anything. Look and study your face in the mirror and really focus on what you love about your face. So if you've got big eyes, focus on them and really kind of play with your makeup and emphasize what you do like rather than thinking about what you don't like. So if you emphasize what you do like, not saying forget about what you don't like, then the first thing your eyes are going to go for when you look in the mirror is what you like, because that's what you've drawn attention to when you've made them up. That's so interesting. No, that's really. I love the way you have people focus on what they like about their face first and foremost. Yeah. Rather than going, okay, well, let's work on that thing that you don't like. You know, I think that is such the right way as. As a coach, I would say, you know, looking for the positive first. Yeah. When you're working to change something, build on your positives. So I do that mentally with people and you. You do that with makeup. That's really interesting. I didn't realize. Yeah, well, that's the approach you take. Focus on what you like. Generally, you don't notice what you don't like. Once your eyes are done. If. Yeah, yeah. Yes. That makes total sense. If you've got really slender lips and you don't really want to focus on your lips and you don't like them, then just use a neutral color on your lips or even a lip balm. Make your eyes up. Or if you've got fabulous lips, go for the full color, nice lip liner, emphasize them even more and downplay your eyes. Or good high cheekbones. You can use a nice highlighter depending on what color blush you like or where you want to put it, whether it's on the apple or the outside of your cheekbone. Yeah. Well, that's amazing advice and I just want to flag up again as we're kind of out of time. Your social media is ellenhandmakeup. Is that the same on Insta as in Twitter? Same on Insta, Instagram, and Twitter, yeah. Cool. And you are regularly, you know, doing up all these stars that we watch on breakfast tv. You do a fantastic job. I can't wait to see you. As soon as I've moved house, we've got that date. And lots of love to you, darling. That was hell in hand. Makeup artist to lots of celebrities and also to the rest of us who need help, thank you for joining me today on the men's radio station. It's been great having comments and I look forward to in a fortnight coming back with more fantastic guests. In the meantime, look after yourself. I'm Dr. Pam, and you've been with me here on the men's radio station.