Trending With Dr. Pam Spurr – Dr Ranj, Vicki Michelle, Dr Mariette Jansen

Hello and welcome. I'm Dr. Pam Spurr and I'm with you here on Thursdays, every other Thursday on the men's and women's radio stations. And we usually talk about what's trending and what it means to our lives. The celebrities and politicians might make the headlines, but often beneath the trends, there are real issues for us to chew over. But today with my first guest, there's too much to talk about with his new book for me to talk about trends. Now he's a renowned television doctor, a BAFTA award winning TV presenter, Sunday Times bestselling author and charity ambassador on social media. He's Rranch and his new book is how to Grow up and Feel Amazing. The no Worries Guide for Boys. And I'm delighted that Dr. Ranj Singh is going to join me right now. Hello, darling. It's been so long since I've seen you this morning. Maybe three years, two years. Three years. We've crossed paths so many times in the past and it feels like it's been ages since I've seen you, obviously. But I'm trying to come on your show for a long, long time and I'm so glad. I know. And it's your new book, which is absolutely fantastic. And the parents out there need to get this for their boys because I'm impressed. And then my first question to you is, what inspired you to write this book for boys? Two main reasons, I suppose. Firstly, I think there's a need for it because there's whatever is out there for young boys at the moment in terms of growing up. Guides seem to be a little outdated. And I think that young people in general have gone through a lot over the last year with everything that's happened. So there was definitely a need for a book like this. And then secondly, I did it for a personal reason. I did it, I wanted it to be the book that I needed when I was growing up. I didn't have anything like that. I didn't have somewhere to turn to or someone to turn to when I was growing up. So I wanted it to be that reassuring, comforting and advisory voice that I wanted when I was a young man, when I was a young boy. So I've poured the lessons I learned through my life, personally and professionally all sort of into this book and try to make it as helpful as I possibly can. Well, that's something I wanted to touch on about your own boyhood. But first, I want to welcome Urban Angels. So she's excited for today's and Charlotte says, hi, Dr. Pam and Dr. Ranj, with a big heart for you. Now, what was your boyhood like? Was it quite traditional or so? Yeah, so, I mean, I was a boy over 30 years ago. I can't believe it. You've got such a youthful face. This book was aimed at 10 to 14 year olds, roughly, and that was about 30 years ago for me. So casting my mind back. The world was a very different time back then. Our conversations and attitudes were very different. Plus, I grew up in a traditional sort of Indian household, so, you know, my world was quite limited. My exposure to what was going on around me was quite limited. My access, I think, to help and sort of advice only really came through school in a way. There's only so much my teachers could do. My. So I felt like a lot of my emotional needs weren't always met the way I needed them to be. I mean, I had a lovely childhood and I had wonderful parents, but there was only so much they could offer me. I didn't have the Internet, so. So I couldn't really go away and do my own kind of, you know, soul searching online. So. But it, you know, I. I guess what I did, I kind of just focused down on the things that I could do and the things that I was good at and just kind of knuckle down and thought, right, I'm gonna set my goal. I want to be a doctor when I grow up. So, you know, studying kind of became my solace in a way. I just kind of got on with it and, yeah, now here I am. And I thought, right, I don't want any other child to ever go through that. And I was gonna say Hermit angel says, what an amazing concept to write an updated book for boys having girls. I've seen so many for them, but not for boys. Lovely to see Dr. Ranj again. Yes. So the first thing that really impressed how you open about boys learning to be themselves and identifying themselves as an individual, because of course, we all know about peer pressure and we all know how to conform is so important. But I love the way you opened on that note and tell me more about that. Yeah, I think one of the goals of this book was to inspire the reader, give them confidence that no matter who they are, where they're from, what their background, what their interests and desires were, that they were important. And that was okay. We redefined what it means to be a boy. We touch on the concepts of toxic masculinity, what we call toxic masculinity now, and those traditional masculine values which I think have kind of disadvantaged Kids that don't feel that way. So there's a lot of boys are like, but I don't like football, but I don't like, you know, X, Y and Z. Does that mean there's something wrong with me? And I wanted every young person that picked up this book, want to see a part of themselves in it and two to feel like actually I'm wonderful, I'm amazing. I am the best version of me and I deserve to be happy and I deserve to be healthy and I deserve to celebrate who I am. And that's what I want them to do. I love that so much. And I know raising my eldest, who's a boy, and I had very much that thing that embrace your quirks, embrace who you are. And I just love the fact that my children are actually all very quirky. I think that worked. I'll call them strengths. And so as I say, you open with that kind of area. And Helen's joined the conversation. She says, hey, Dr. Pam and Dr. Ranch. Hey. So big fan of yours, obviously. Now, I think that as a psychologist, I've often found when I'm talking to clients that medical problems often impact how they're feeling about themselves generally. And I'm just wondering, I'm sure that must be the same in reverse. Your specialty has been, you know, medical care for young people. You must often see that, that their medical problems are then compounded or in a cycle with mental health issues too. Absolutely. And I don't think we can. I think mental. Mental health and physical health are so intricately linked that we're only really started to pay attention to that recently. We talk about parity of esteem and parity of health across mental and physical. And I talk about this in the book a lot. We have a whole chapter on looking after your mind and your mental well being and emphasizing the fact that actually, you know, your brain is just as important as any other part of your body and your health is impacted by what's going on up here. And what's going up on up here is often impacted what's going on with the rest of your body. And the two are closely linked and we need to pay attention to them both. So I talk a lot about the kind of things that young boys might experience, like anxiety, like loneliness, like bullying, like stress and worry. We touch on all of those things and just generally, I think making the most out of your brain and trying to be as happy as you possibly can, but also recognizing that it's okay to be down as well. See, that's Another question I have for you was I love when you cover feelings and talking about it because so often I still think that boys get that old fashioned attitude of, you know, sweep your bad feelings under the carpet, only enjoy the good ones. If you're happy, that's fine, but if you're sad, I don't want to know about it. And I love the fact that you do talk about the range of difficult feelings that we can't ignore. And I think it's still the case that boys are almost told to ignore them. Yes, I think we're made to feel like our lives need to be movies and they're not. And I think we need to accept that there are great feelings that we experience and they're fantastic to celebrate those. But there are the opposite side as well. There are the more negative feelings and they're just as important because we can learn from them. And the point about, I make about negative feelings is one, they're there so that we can appreciate the positive ones, but also we need to learn how to manage those ones. And having that balance is incredibly important. But the thing is, when you're not able to manage those negative feelings, that's when you need to be confident enough to seek help. And that's a big message in this book. And I find, you know, that is key. And I love that about your book. Do you still think, you know, having come across obviously many parents in. When you're looking after young people's health, do you think parents still feel a bit maybe more anxious and nervous about talking to their boys rather than their girls about these sort of issues? Yeah, I think traditionally boys have never had permission to be able to speak about their feelings. They've not had the permission to be vulnerable. They've not been allowed to say, I'm struggling or I need help. Because we've always, you know, made boys feel like they have to be macho, they have to be the leaders, they have to be the strong ones. And I think that's partly behind the reason why men, young men suffer mental health issues. And sadly, you know, we have this unacceptably high rate of suicide amongst young men because we haven't allowed them the permission or the space to speak and own up and own their feelings and be okay with it and say it's okay, it's right and you can get the help you need. And I want to change that narrative. I want to inspire our boys and young men to be kind, confident, passionate, compassionate, vulnerable, respectful, brave. But in not just the traditional senses of the Word, in all senses of the word, and be open and honest enough and brave enough to come out and seek help when they need it. I think that is again, this, you know, want to get a megaphone with that message out to young, young boys, catch them in their formative years with that message. It's so important and to any parents listening to think it's okay when my, when my son is struggling and I will talk to them about it. Now, I think a lot of you raised the thing about families and feuds and stuff. Now when I worked in the NHS with, with families, I felt a lot of children got bound up in the arguments between parents or the broader family. And for a young child that's very worrying. And I, and I tell them more about that part of the book. Yeah, so we talk. There's an old section on relationships and we're not just talking about romantic relationships. We talk about relationships with your family, with your carers, with your peers and friends and siblings. It's all in there. We talk about the good sides and the not so good sides. And I certainly, I grew up in a household where sometimes, you know, my parents weren't getting on and I remember the impact it had on me seeing that play out. And I still to this day, I think, carry some of that with me. And what I wanted to impress on young people was actually, you know, sometimes these grown up conversations that are happening around you aren't about. You still have your relationship with your parents completely separate to all of that. But when it does start to impact, you don't feel scared to speak up and say, hang on a second, this isn't good for me, this isn't helping me and I could never do that. And I think that that's really, really important. And also, I suppose little ones have, their thoughts can be quite pure in a way and morality based. So often they find that when people are arguing, one must be good and one must be bad and trying to explain to them that actually it's a bit more nuanced than that. Exactly. The shades of gray who are arguing or whatever. And not to get involved in those discussions quite so much, but your feelings and opinions are just as important sometimes. Now this brings me onto the point that of course this was written for young boys who are old enough to read it, but for parents listening, what are your kind of key tips for them to help their sons? Yeah, so obviously this is, as you said, written for young boys, but it is, lots of parents have read it before. They often pass it on to their Little ones. And they found it helpful. Parents and carers have done all the hard work for you. Anybody that's interested in the challenges that young men go through and boys go through, what can parents do? I always impress on parents that every child is different. No one formula fits absolutely everybody. And you will probably know your child best, so tailor your approach to them. Secondly, we're not all therapists, we're not all teachers, we're not all counsellors, and no one is expecting you to be. And I think that one of the most positive and powerful things that you can do as a parent is to create a space where your young person can come to you and see, speak and feel like they won't be judged, feel like they can be open and honest, they will be listened to, they won't be punished, they won't be, you know, ridiculed or anything like that. Create that safe, loving, open space for conversation. And then when you don't have the answers, just be honest. It's okay, we don't have the answers. But tell you what, I am going to go away with you and we are going to go find the answers or tell me what's wrong. Let's work through it together. I'm on your team. Team. We're a team together. And that's the most positive thing that any parent or carer can do, irrespective of everything else. Yes. See, I just, I. I think that is brilliantly put because it gives parents permission not to know all the answers and so they can be honest like that you don't have to be Superman or Superwoman to your children. One concern I've always had with families is the family role that parents I've, I've worked with for cast their. Oh, he's the cheeky one. Oh, she's the clever one. Oh, he's the one that we think's not, you know, maybe going to get in trouble. And I think often if parents would. I don't know if you've come across that, but casting your child in a role, it means that child feels they always have to live up to that role. Exactly. And I wonder if you've kind of seen that in coming out in any of your work when you're working with families in the medical situation. Yeah, certainly you see that, you know, and I, and I saw that growing up. My brother was labeled as the naughty one and I was labeled as the studious one. And it didn't help. It doesn't help you either. It didn't help me because I felt this huge pressure and responsibility to be this perfect child and he always felt like he couldn't win and it was never good enough. And I think what you've got to do is don't label your child, don't pass judgment on your own time. Let them be who they are, but guide them in the right direction. And most people will work it out, they will work it out when they get older and I think we probably don't need to panic quite so much. Well, that's a wonderful note to leave on. I know you have other interviews to do and I just wanted to say your book's going to find a good home. I've got a great friend who has a 12 year old son. My children are grown but a 12 year old son who's going to love this book, book and I know she's going to appreciate me giving it to her. Thank you so much, Dr. Ranch, for your time and Helen has said absolutely agreeing with what you were saying. You take care and thanks again. Of course Dr. Ranch's book is called how to Grow and Feel Amazing. The no Worries Guide for Boys. And you can find Dr. Ranj on social media R. Now, my next guest, I've got to say, has amazing showbiz credentials. A sparkling career that fans a vast variety of television credits from Emmerdale, Doctors. Hello. Hello. To reality TV like I'm a celebrity. Get me out of her here. She's also an MBE on social media, on Twitter you can find her at Vicki Michelle, on Instagram, at the Vicky Michelle and her website vickymichelle.co.uk and I'm delighted she joins me now. And hello. Hello, Vicki. Thank you. Hi. Now, I have so much to ask you. First off, your incredible career, tell me how it got started. It got started well, my sister, I've got three sisters and my next sister down wanted to go to drama school and mum was an actress and she gave it up to have her four girls and she was in a film called the Glass Mountain which was brilliant. If you haven't seen it, it's a great epic film and she gave it up but she always. Our house was full of laughter and she was always singing and we were always acting and dad was a bit of an actor and so I started off doing ballet lessons at three years old and doing panto and things as a child. And then when I got older I stayed on at school and took my O levels but my sister had gone to stage school, Ada Foster. And my father said, do you want to go? And I Said, well, I don't think I want to be a secretary. And so I went to school, school, stage school, and they sent you out on jobs. And I started getting jobs and the rest is history. Amazing. I've got to say Helen has joined in and says hello. Hello, Vicki. Michelle. Now, the thing is, you. You started young. It was your other sister intended to be. Did she also stay in acting or did she do something else? Yeah, she's. Well, she's. She still does some acting and everything, but she went to America. She was really good in America, something I didn't do. She did some great films out there and now she's writing. So she's got some great scripts, comedy scripts, and they're writing a book and children's stories. And so she writes with my youngest sister, Susie. I hope she writes a good role for you. I know I keep nagging she might write it herself. Now, out of, you know, a career that is still going strong, what would you say are a few of the highlights? Share some of the highlights with us. Well, obviously, Lollo, I mean, when I got that, I didn't realize how long it would go on for. And so we did that for 10 years. Family with everyone and. And I was very grateful for that. And then I did. I've done. I've done so many things. I've done Minder and Softly Softly and things like that, which I did before I went into comedy. But then I've worked with great people. Highlights. Working with the Two Ronnies. I know these are like iconic Les Dawson, so I work with all those. So I learned my craft on the comedy side, although I started off doing straight acting. But the highlights are probably playing Miss Hannigan in Annie, which I've done three times. Just absolutely. Gosh. And working with Ray Winston on. On a film that Winston. I had to kiss it. Do you know what I mean? You mean you had to. I wasn't expecting. Was part of the. The scene. And he just grabbed me and kissed me. I went, oh, well. Good kisser. Yeah. Oh, good. Urban angel says Vicki. Looks so stunning. Wow. So graceful. You are. Whenever I see you, I'm always so. Thank you. And Helen says I love Annie, so. She loved Annie. Oh, really? That was great. I love. I love doing that. Shut up. Your little breasts, I'm sure. To your lovely daughter. Like that I used to do. Yeah, yeah. Occasionally now, of course. Yvette in Hello. Hello. As you say. I mean, an iconic role. You just, you know that you were like the nation's sweetheart. The kind of Sexy sweetheart, you know. So tell me more about what it was like being in Lolo and 10 years of your life, you know, 10 years it took me. Well, with the Alloa lo, we were only filming for about sort of eight weeks a year. So we'd be, say, two weeks exteriors and then six weeks in the studio. And that was fabulous. But then we did the stage show of Elo Allo, which took me to New Zealand, Australia, all over England. We played every theater. The West End. That was fabulous. So it was great learning. I learned so much. I worked with such great actors, you know, Ken Connor, and watched them, watch their timing, watched what they did. And actually, my catchphrase, it was great. And also, everyone is a bit disappointed when I haven't got a French accent. But my catchphrase came about because we had listened very carefully. I shall say this only words we had. Good moaning, you stupid woman. All of those catchphrases, the flashing knobs and all of those catchphrases. And I didn't have one. And so I asked David if I could have one. He went, no, darling. But every week I used to go, oh, oh, Rene. Oh, Rene. So I watched the others doing going, oh, Rene. And I thought, do you know what? More camera time. Elongate it. So I went, oh, Rene. So he let me get away with that. And then it eventually turned into, oh, Now, come on. Did your husband have you say that in the bedroom to him? I don't know. I'm amazed. I think if I had a catchphrase like that, my other half would be saying, can you do that in the bedroom, darling? Can you do that again? Yes. I think he got sick to death of it in the end, you know. But as. Yvette, how much fan mail did you get? You must have had a ton. I mean, I got quite a lot of. Yeah, I got quite a lot of fan. Oh, really nice. I didn't. You know, I think it was nice, you. Most of my family. And still now I get love, lovely people saying lovely things. Occasionally you get one that's a bit odd, but that's fine. I don't mind. As long as they're enjoying themselves, who cares? Charming. But I did get a lot of fan mail. Yes. And. And that's really flattering. I don't think I realized how popular I was, you know, except, like, going out for a meal. People would suddenly start staring at you while you're eating. You know, you have to deal with those sort of things. But it. But, gosh, I wouldn't have changed it for the world. Even though you. I probably was typecast after that finish, so it's more difficult to get roles, you know. Yeah, I wondered about that. You know, was that. Did that take a while to sort of get over that Yvette sort of thing, or. Yes. I think what happens is you tend to go into theatre because television won't use you, because everyone thinks of you as Yvette. So I did lots of theatre, which was fantastic. So I learned so much from doing theatre all over the country. I think I've done probably every theatre there is. And. And so that. And then as you get older, then you get more of the better parts or some really good parts offered to you. So then you come out there, did the all in the Game with Ray Winston, which was about football and different things. But I think it is difficult. Everyone says that when you're typecast, it is difficult to overcome that. I'm sure that can happen, but how about with the ups and downs of acting? I know a lot of people say that they'll do an acting job. I've interviewed a few actors before. It's over. It's been very intense. You feel like you've made friends, but then, of course, you all go on to other things. But with something like Alo aloh, which was 10 years, did you kind of feel you made friends for life or longer enduring friendships from a series like that? Or again, even after all those series, do people end up doing their own thing and you kind of lose touch? How does that kind of work? Well, we, I think, you know, with Alola, we were together for 10 years. It was like a family. And so we all still keep in touch and we still meet up. You know, we put a blue plaque up and. And they're all the same. It's like family, you know, you just go, hi, Gibby, how are you? What are you up to? And even if you haven't seen them for years, a couple of years, but we usually talk to each other at least, you know, over the year. But they do become like family. And it's like when you're doing theatre and maybe I've toured for three months, four months, with people like Sue Pollard, Lionel Blair. They're still my mates. I might not talk to them every day, but they. You pick up. It's very funny, the acting business, because you pick up, you go, oh, hi, sue, how are you? Hi. Vic has loops, you know, and I might not have seen her for two years, you know, or three years, but you're still I think we're still mates and, and I've made a lot of friends in the business over the years, which is fantastic. You know, gorgeous people. Gorgeous people like you. Yeah, I know. We, we're lucky. We can pick up the thread whenever we have our random phone calls and whatever. Yeah. Now, what about advice for people going into showbiz? Because, of course. Oh, and I just want to say that she, Sharon, had joined in thinking Russ and Phil were on, but she's saying we're both great and that you are an amazing actress, Vicki. Oh, thank you. That's so sweet. Thank you. But, yeah, it's the kind of ups and downs with showbiz. Does it take a particular personality type to manage those successfully? Because every actor has to go through a period like you had to renegotiate after feeling a bit typecast by Yvette. And these things happen to, to every actor. But some, you know, we read in the newspapers online, you know, one actor's falling apart, one actors, you know, gone into rehab. Do you think to actually deal with all that kind of ups and downs, you need a particular sort of personality to deal with it? You have to be resilient, I think, you know, I think probably when I started off, I was quite sensitive and I think that, you know, if you want to survive in somewhere, you've got to say, buck up. Really, you know, and. And you have to suffer rejection. You're going for castings and you're not getting them. So my way of dealing with that is that, oh, they're stupid. They should have used me. I think you have to have a really strong attitude, I think, that, you know, and deal with. If someone doesn't want you, it's because you're not right for the path or they don't. The director doesn't envisage you in that role. And then some, you know, you'll walk into a room and the director goes, oh, my God, you're perfectly right for it. But in this business, you know, you're more out of work than you're in and it's a really dicey business. And I think that you have to. I think it is really good to have another string to your bow, you know, when a lower low was coming to the end and I thought, I'm going to get. I'm typecast. I've. I've had a baby. I don't know what, you know, if any work's going to come in. So I started a company called Trading Faces, which supplies. I thought, what do I know about supply celebrities for after dinner speaking, check presentations, promotions. So I did that. So I think, and that was a good thing for me to do because I had something to fall back on. My, my two sisters run that now. But because touch wood, I, I'm still working, thank God. But I think you've, you've got to be quite resilient. You've got to suffer rejection, but don't take it personally. Yeah, I think, you know, that's a lesson across all life too, isn't it? I mean, I work part of the time as a date coach and I do talk to a lot of singles about how they can up their game. And a big thing for them is, well, you know, I really liked them and then they didn't want to go out with me. It's all about me. And I always say, well, no, you know, maybe the timing wasn't right. You're looking for something serious, they just wanted something fun. You know, there's too big of a geographical gap between you, whatever. And I think that what you've just said, that resilience to not always make it, that the rejections about you holds true in all these other aspects of life, you know, I think you're absolutely, I mean, and I've learned things like, you know, if you don't love yourself, no one else is going to love you. And I think that's the, that's the thing, you know, you know, be aware of yourself. You only have yourself to really fall back on. This is you are responsible for you, you know, and I think that. And you know, you make yourself happy, you look at the positive things in life. Don't rely on someone else to make you happy. It's, you know, it doesn't work. It becomes, I think, you know, if you're happy and the other person's happy, obviously some people aren't meant to be and some people are meant to be, but don't take it personally, you know, I think because that's where you become insecure and question and go down that dark road. I've never, ever, I mean, you know, obviously I had relationships that weren't great, you know, that were long and, and weren't terrific when you think about them afterwards. But when I thought about them afterwards, I thought, I'm never letting that happen again. You learned something from me. Treat it as a learning curve, you know, what was it? But, but I think, you know, be true to yourself and don't rely on other people. If something doesn't work, don't worry about it. There's someone else around the corner for sure, you know? Exactly. Hey, you could take over the date coaching Vicki. That's what I say to them. Do you? That's right. Urban. Urban angel says I'm obsessed with Vicki's cheekbones. Wow. She every. She should be on every beauty advert there is. Oh, thank you, Urban Angel. I think that's so lovely. I got these from my mum, but with all my sisters, we all look like. We're like clones, you know, Everyone goes, which one's which? In fact, my next brand used to get me into trouble, you know, really, because they thought it was me kissing someone in a nightclub and it was her. But Mommy was the best looking out of all of us. She had amazing. She was an amazing woman. She never ever said enough. She said, if you can't say anything nice about anyone, don't say anything at all. Oh, my gosh. My mother was like that. I love that my mother. My mother was like that too. She's what I call fabulous. The thing is that she said that she never judged as. As Dr. Ranch would say, she never judged. And you say she never judged people. If you want to go and talk. That's why she was loved by so many people. So many people. I'll go, I miss. I miss your mom. People in the business, people out of the business, people that knew her, they go, we love your. We loved your mum, who's sadly no longer with us. And because she never judged, she just listened. And that is a great quality to have. No one has the right to judge anyone, you know, I think, you know, everyone is great as they are, you know, they are their own special person, you know, and everyone has great things about them. It's like, you know, I've met a lot of people with ptsd, you know, in the Post traumatic stress disorder. Oh, God, I always get it wrong. Post Traumatic stress disorder, ptsd, yes. And lots of things like that. And. And I have a thing now that, yeah, I was talking to someone who was doing some charity work and he'd had that. And I said, you know, and he was talking to me about the things he's been through. And I went, do you know what? Just think you're fabulous. So if anyone rings me and says, how are you, Vicki? I go, fabulous. How are you? And as soon as you say fabulous, they go, oh. And. But if you say it, you feel fabulous. Exactly. You. Yeah, you can fake it to make it, even if you don't feel particularly fabulous, but it makes you feel fabulous. So therefore you go on A high. Rather than on, rather than going, oh God, I can't say stand is coming. And everyone is like that. Of course it's getting to us. But I think if you take yourself out of it and look at all the positives, like nature, like all the great things we have in this world, animals, insects, flowers, every, everything and be so grateful for that and so grateful for what you do have, I think that's really important and I'm very grateful every day. I think I thank, I thank God every day that you know, for what we've got, not what we haven't got. I am so with you every night when I go to bed, I look at my favorite little videos of the family, of all my family. We've got a lovely kind of large family. And I just think I am so lucky. No matter what's happened during that day, even if I had a really bad day, I just look at that and I go, no, I am the luckiest woman that I've got these people in my life. And I think it's that mindfulness. And I wanted to. Even if you haven't got anyone in your life, I think because that's, you know, we have and I think that's. But if you haven't. But if you could look at the positive because, you know, like just going out and meeting people, just giving people a smile, people talk to you, you know, And I think if you're happy and you go out, you'll bring that to you. And also you could just go for a walk in the forest. It's so therapeutic and look at the beautiful birds, you know, I love it. I had a massive woodpecker out in my garden the other day and the noise was incredible. And I was just looking at, going, this is a thing of wonder. I know I get lost in the moment. It's mindfulness and action, what you're talking about. And I was going to say, I remember when we were chatting the other day and I said, I want to ask you about your cup half full attitude to life. Well, this is, this is all coming out. Here you are, you have that. Well, you have a full cup attitude to life. And then I don't do the golf. How do you deal with people when and how do you share that? Because even if you're a positive person and, and you, you, you handle challenges and you try and see the silver lining, you come across people in your life that are not that way. And how do you deal with someone who comes into your life who's maybe negative or that cup half empty attitude, how do you deal with that? I try to make. I think I try to make them more positive, you know, or sometimes you can flatter people, you know, if they. I remember, you know, like just sometimes you'll see a woman and they're going to do. And I just went up to the woman, she had really nice dress and I went, excuse me, I said, but you look really lovely. Thank you so much. Do you know what? You can make someone's day by doing that. Just, just make people feel special. I think that people that are insecure, if you can build up their confidence, if you can say something nice. But you know, some of these people don't maybe don't have nice things say to them or don't have a smile. And I think that, you know, you can turn that. Obviously I've dealt with people in the business, they're absolutely, what can I say? Asses. I turn that round and go, that's their problem. There's something in their life that's causing that. It's not me, you know, because sometimes you can take it on yourself that is it me? Is it something? But it's usually to do with them, but you have to deal, you know, I've dealt with bullying in my profession and things like that, but I just thought, I'm not going to let them win. And I think that's. So that's, you know, you be as you are. If you want to be vile, you can be vile, but I'm not going to allow you to, to do that to me, to bring me down to your level. And I think. And I just. That's how I am. That's how I've always been. I don't even think about, you know, half full or whatever. I'm just, I'm just a happy person. I think that, you know, I had a fantastic mum, you know, dad was great, very strict. How did your dad cope with four sisters? I can't imagine what that was like for the man. Yeah, four girls. Dad was really. All those period pains, you know, all the pms. Yeah. Dad used to let it just go over his head, you know, he was a very strong man. He was from the East End of London. He was built like a brick s house. He was strong. He was, you know, like the, the alpha male and he liked to be the center attack. He used to tell jokes all the time and. But he had, he had quite a temper as well. So if dad said jump, you jumped, you know, because you could get a clip. Not hard, you Got. Yeah. And. But you respected him, you know, so. But obviously with. He was great at getting rid of boyfriends you didn't want. Or, you know, when the guy turns up outside the house and they pull up and then they want to kiss you. Daddy used to open the door, go, Biggie. And they used to go, who's that? That's my dad. You better go in. That's so funny. My dad was the same, too. When I was allowed to start dating at 16, he would be waiting for the guy to bring me home. And. Yeah. And urban angels comment is such a great way to look at life. Enjoy the little minutes, moments, be grateful for everything. And I do. And I do think that message is. Is a powerful one. And it's one that I find when I'm coaching people. You have to remind yourself. You, you know, you have to remind people are not feeling that. It becomes a habit. You make it a habit. And, and, and yeah. That I work with people all the time who need to create those new habits of looking at the world and finding the beauty in it that they are letting slip past because they get so wound up about things. I think it's something outside you. It's not all about you. Yes. I mean, it's not, you know, it's. It's about appreciating what's around you and actually looking at people that are worse off. You know, you can have people in wheelchairs or, you know, that have suffered injuries or, you know, or, you know, have had traumas in their lives and, you know, and just, you know, if you just think out outside the box how lucky you are. And what am I going to watch today? Oh, the robin, he's really. He's chasing the sparrowing. You know, little things can make you happy. And I think you have to think. I think people get into a rut of, you know, how are you to. Oh, don't ask. Oh, I'm this. Oh, I'm that. And they actually get into a rut of wanting to be ill. Yeah. And wanting to have someone say, I'm so sorry, Oriel. But in the end, people don't, because it's all the time. You know, I think that's, That's. That's a difficult thing. You know, it's hard for people like that to change, which is why, as a coach, I sort of say, let's start with small things. Like today, I want you to look for one moment that takes you out of yourself because you're looking at nature or whatever. And. Yeah. And it is A slow learning process for some people, but they can get there. And I think this is a really positive message that you're giving about this kind of mindfulness about the good things that everybody has in their life. No matter how hard their life is, there is something to start a bit better about. Yeah, I mean, it's really tough for some people, I think. And also with the children thing, I think we've made them too grown up too quick for goodness sake. The whole thing about being online. Except for Dr. Ranch had to go early to another interview. I wanted to ask him about the pressures that he comes across in the young people he works with about being online. There's so much pressure. I mean, even as an adult, you get pressure online, let alone kids nowadays. It does make them grow up too fast. They're vile. People are vile online. I mean, goodness, you know, why is that allowed? You know, I've got my nieces, you know, the, you know, and that have, you know, great needs that have been bullied online and things like that. And you just go, what is. What is this with these people? Why. Why don't these people go out and be nice? Why can't you be nice, get so much more out of life by being nice to people? You know, because all those people are doing is bringing it back to themselves. So what they are generating reflects back at them. So when they are giving out nastiness, they are receiving it, they're doing that to their body. You know, that's not good. I always say it reflects when someone's bullying online, it reflects their inner anger and their insecurity. People. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's hard. A lot of people get. You know, I've known people who've left online, they've left Twitter or whatever because they find it just too hard to cope with that. What I tend to do is block. If someone's very rude, I just block them. You know, I just don't like a lot of negativity on my timeline. I'm very opinionated on my Twitter timeline. Say what I think about the government or whatever, but, you know, I won't do it directly at individual people ever. I would notice. Never do that. No, no. They're just sad. I feel sorry for them. You know, the thing is that you feel sorry for these people. They've got nothing else in their life to do that. So I just feel. Yeah, sorry. It. It's like, oh, you sorry person, you know, that's it, you know, and don't waste any more time. Move. You know, there is no point in wasting time on negativity. Exactly. I love it. Now listen, you, you have got a show maybe coming up in September if all goes well. Tell me a bit about that. I don't know if you can tell very much but I know you're, you've got. I'm really excited because there's no work about and I'm so glad. Hopefully the theaters are going to. Because we need our theaters. There's beautiful theaters that are closing all over the country and it's really scary and tough, you know, but I've got this show going out called Dirty Dusting and, and it's about these three cleaners in, in an office. They're office cleaners and they're going to be, I think they're going to be laid off and they, they, they get a call one day and it's a misdialed call call and it's just they think the person that rings in thinks it's a sex chat line and that sets their, their minds into what a good idea. We can earn some extra money doing this. And, and so it's called, it is comedy and I've, I've seen this go out with some of my friends before and everyone that sees it has said it's hysterical. So I am so looking forward to that. That is going to be amazing. And, and I'm working with Leah Bell and Vicki Entwistle who was from Coronation street. So it's a good team and we've got a chat in it. Oh my God. His name escapes me but he's brilliant. He's been been in it before. So if you want a fun night out, we're touring all over the country. We're doing one night night every night nearly for end of Sep, middle of September, October. And if you want to laugh and it will be funny, you cannot not laugh. I've been really. Some of our mutual friends and come down and just have a good night at the theater and also hopefully I'm going to do the Southwold Theatre on the coast which just before that for their summer season, I took a play out called hello Norma Jean and I played Marilyn Monroe, an older Marilyn Monroe which was absolutely brilliant. So, so cleverly written by Dylan Costello and I'm going to be doing that for a couple of weeks in Southwold so just before. So I'm looking forward to that. So I'm very lucky, Touchwood, very lucky. And you've got your radio show, your music show, Vic's Mix. Yes. Phoenix Night FM on A Sunday, other stations. But hey, you're such an amazing guest. Who gives a poo. Yeah. So I mean you are keeping really busy and yeah, that's just fantastic and I'm so thrilled you could give me so much time today and just share that positivity and, and your thoughts on things like that. And good showbiz advice for people who, you know, maybe are in the business and starting out and getting lots of rejections and how to take rejections. Just don't take it personally. It's not personal, it's how the director perceives you. You walk through that door and you are that, that person. They go, yes, or you're not that person and you convince them with the reading. But I think you just, in today's society, you need another string to your bow as well. Something to fall back on. Yeah, yes, definitely. Great advice. So of course people can find you online with Twitter, you're at Vicky Michelle. Instagram, you're at the Vicky Michelle and of course you have your website, vickymichelle. Com. And thank you so much for joining me today. Lovely. We'll speak soon. That lovely speaking to you and I love your paintings, they're gorgeous. Oh, thank you, darling. Thank you for being so creative and so gorgeous. I paid you for that. Bye, darling. Now I'm delighted that my next guest is making a repeat Visit. She is Dr. Marriott Jansen, a life coach, psychotherapist and author of the best selling award winning self help book From Victim to Victor Narcissism Survival Guide. Now you can find her website is DrDestress.co.uk and on Facebook is also Dr. Distress Tips. And I'm delighted that Mariette joins me now. And hello. Hi Pam. And thank you for coming back again. Now last time you and I talked about narcissism and today we are going to explore imposter syndrome. Yes. Now just basic sort of for people who haven't heard of it, it's when someone feels in some way a fraud and it goes beyond the normal doubts we all have now. You know, because in life we all have doubts about, oh, did I, did I deserve, you know, that promotion or whatever. Tell me, how frequently does it show itself? Sorry, what was your question? Tell me how frequently. And then I didn't hear you. It comes across in your clients and how does it show itself? Well, if you know, lots of my clients are victims of narcissistic abuse and as a result of that abuse they have lost their confidence. When they then start building up that confidence or when they have A positive experience. And they say, whoa, this was really good. There is an inner voice that tells them, ah, you were just lucky. Ah, you can't be that good. And that is just a leftover from that abuse. Because in narcissistic abuse, your, your, the narcissist is continuously putting you down. But then they play with you. So sometimes they will give you sort of a compliment and it's confusing and it's undermining and you don't have a realistic picture of really what you are giving to the world and what you are achieving. It distorts your reality. So if you've had that kind of upbringing, when something good happens to you, maybe because you're a diligent person worker and you get that promotion, it may well reflect that. You just, you can't. That's not your reality because you're not used to people praising you, I guess. Yeah. And it's also what, you know, it's not only victims of narcissistic abuse who, who might suffer from imposter syndrome because 70% of the population will have that experience from time to time. And as you said, we all have a little bit of it. It of course becomes really disturbing when it is not when it's not representing the reality. So if, I mean, I had it when I was a management consultant, thank God it was years ago. But I didn't like my job. It was in a new country, and I didn't think I did it right. And then I got a bonus, which is, you know, you would think, well, when you get a bonus, that's a reward. And you only get it when they think you're worthy that reward. And I couldn't get my head around it because I thought, you know, I still don't do a good enough job. I'm not good here. And lots of people will have that from time to time. And, and then you get into that automatic response and people need to learn to recognize and then really break free from that. Because a bit of an imposter. You know, that little voice that sometimes, oh, was that really right? Couldn't you have done it better? Is sometimes okay because it will keep you on your toes and it will prevent you from getting cocky and arrogant like, oh, look at me, I do everything all right right now. It's sort of, you know, it makes you go for your achievement, it makes you work. So from that point of view, it's okay. But if it takes over and if it's causing you sleepless night, if it causing you to prepare hundred Thousand times the same email and not having the guts to press that button because you feel so insecure about it. Procrastinating in doing things, you know, lots of different things that then get in the way of a really, the joy in what you were doing and the celebration, success. If you've had a success and you just can't take it on board, I was going to say, to celebrate where you are and embrace that and just take it as it is. It was interesting just listening to you and Vicky Michel just earlier when you, I think you said to her, you're such an, an amazing guest on the show. And she just said, yeah, I know I am. And I thought, I thought, that's so lovely. You know, no reason for her to then go, oh, my goodness. Oh, I was just lucky. Oh, no, she's just saying that to be nice to me. I thought she was able to really embrace that. I've known Vicki for years and she just has a joie de vivre that is just wonderful like that and just. Yeah. Oh, thank you for the compliment. That's great. Now, I was recently coaching someone who, classic imposter syndrome, got a promotion at work and he felt unjustified that, that, you know, it really played on him and we just, I took him through this kind of. Well, let's look at your. The facts of it rather than the feelings. The fact is, you were in a corporation. Would they give that promotion to anyone who didn't deserve it? No, the fact is, no, they would not do that unless you deserved it. You have been doing this job for X number of years. The fact is you are now ready to go up the ladder. That's a fact. And so we, we started playing with the fact versus his feelings that, you know, and trying to get him to refocus frame. And I wonder how, because obviously you do this more with imposter syndrome than I do. Where do you take the next step with someone like that? What do you do when you're coaching them? Well, as you said, the big difference between someone who suffers from imposter syndrome and a non imposter is what you do with the feeling. Yes. Or the feeling is a little bit of fear, some insecurity. You can delve into that or as you did with your client, you can go into your head, start to look at the facts, start to reframe. And the reframing, not coming from a place of failure or proving that things are wrong, but reframing it as a success. So say I have to give a presentation. I don't have a lot of time, but, you know, I have to do it, give the presentation. And people say to me, my goodness, that was really good. My imposter would then say, well, if you had spent more time, my goodness, you would have done so much better. The non imposter, the reframing would say, my goodness, I nearly said something I didn't want to say. My goodness, I, you know, I knocked it out of the head. I didn't have a lot of time and I still, I still delivered it. Well done, me. That's really cool. So instead of dragging yourself into that negativity and beating yourself up and bringing the doubt in, just go to, go to the other side. Go to the success and celebrate the success. Yes. Now Urban angel says it's so true about the aftermath of being around someone with narcissist, narcissistic behavior. I need to get Dr. Marriott Janssen's book and I highly recommend you do to Urban Angel. Great, great comment there. Now, talking about imposter syndrome, there's a quality to. Sometimes it's not so about like actual things happening, like promotions. But I've known people who've said to me, I feel imposter because if I go to a place party, I can be the life and soul. But that's not really me. So I think that's a whole. It's another whole nother aspect to this, isn't it, about personal qualities? You know, where people will put on a show that actually is not the truth. How does that relate to, say, the imposter syndrome of someone who. I can never accept that they do well at work. They're always questioning their work work, you know, that sort of difference between that I would say if someone is presenting themselves in a certain way, they have a Persona. That's their outside presentation to the world. You know, they want to be seen like this. That's how they behave. It can be a mismatch what is going on underneath. Definitely. Because there might be crumbling inside when it comes to the personal thing. It is, it has to do with the relationship with some, with yourself, how you see yourself. And something like putting on a mask and being the life and soul at the party and really being that at that moment. This a part of your being is still real, but there's another part of your being that doesn't match that. So what that shows is that there in this person is an internal imbalance. And it would make sense for them to start working on that, on integrating those or, you know, on personalities. Say, yeah, yeah. And we are, we are not just one person. We play so many different roles and every role taps into us different elements of our authentic self. And they might be contradictory or they might seem, but they can easily sort of be whole, wholesome. You know, I, I love always saying that sadness is such a beautiful expression of happiness. Well, because, you know, the other side. Is that what you're implying? Yeah. And it's like sadness is there because what made you so happy is not available at that moment, but it's that those two can go together so you can be happy in your sadness. Now that's, that's a really interesting point. And I think what concerns me when some people tell me my outside personality is so different than my inside person is that kind of cognitive dissonance they have within themselves, which is I think what you were kind of talking about. And I've always said to people like that, well, just try and maybe tone it down a little that you don't have to be the person telling all the jokes at the party. You can just try just being a more gentle version of your social self to try and almost bring in that side to yourself that the quieter sides you don't always feel you have to put perform. But I think a lot of people feel that way. I mean, I, I've had many clients say to me over the years, I'm such a different person at work, people would not recognize me, you know, that, you know, and I, and I just think when it's too much difference, you need to try and bring those pieces of your personality more together to feel better inside. But, but I think a lot of our behavior is informed by our needs. And if we need external validation and we get external validation by behaving in a certain way, then we continue because we get the reward, we get our needs met. The question then is, is it, is this need, having this need, is that supporting your happiness and well being, where does it come from? If you are in a strong need of external validation, it's usually because there is no internal validation. Yeah, yeah. Some really interesting dilemma that I think a lot of people feel. And I always say to people, well, yes, you want to put your best foot forward when you're out, when you're at work, when you're at a party, of course we all want to put our best feet forward. But I think that's very different to being like totally fake. And that, as you say, that's where you have to look at your own internal reward system for who you are. So what you know, before we run out of time, just what would be a couple tips you would give people who feel, oh, my gosh, imposter syndrome, one form or another. That kind of rings a bell with me. Where would you say they start? You know, they can't all afford to come to private practitioners or whatever. What would you recommend? I would say step one is start a dialogue with your imposter. I always say it's like a little monster that's sitting on your shoulder and it's, it's, you know, it's talking in your, in your head. See that little monster as an entity and start a dialogue. This. So they say something to you like, no, no, no, that was only luck. And wait till they find out, then sit down and talk back and said, what do you mean? What they find out? What can they find out? What is going on on here? Make a list of all your factual achievements. I was good at it. I delivered that presentation. I did make 10 people laugh, which was fun. I, you know, all these sort of things that you can't deny. And writing, writing, writing. I find that is so, so empowering because you can love that so much. And we're out of. Of time, Marriott. You'll have to come. Let me just give the name of your book again. Is Dr. Marriott Jansen? From Victor, From Victim to Victor, the Narcissism Survival Guide. Thank you so much for joining me today, Mariette. And I hope we talk again soon. And I hope that if you at home were listening to those, yeah, those tips from, from Mariette about imposter syndrome and Vicki about staying positive, then I hope you can put the into action today. I'll see you again in a fortnight. Thank you for joining me here on the men's and women's radio station. Lots of love.